Counting to ten.
Rod
Rod' s original statement-
> The Primary School in its culture-awareness-policies-procedures is
> (even as a secular environment) far and away a more 'spiritual',
> protective and 'just' environment than the Baha'i community.
Jerry Joplin's reflection and assessment-
"Then I would say there are other attacks which are actually fallacious
arguments applied to the whole of the Baha'i Faith. A good example of
this is Rod's statement that the school system was far and away more
spiritual environment than the Baha'i Faith. Which on the face of it,
is patently absurd, but it touches on the type of attack which is often
applied to the whole of the Baha'i Faith." Jerry J
"attacks which are actually fallacious arguments applied to the
whole of the Baha'i Faith".................
"The whole of the Baha'i Faith"............
The Baha'i Faith that originates with the Will of God.
The Baha'i Faith revealed in Sacred Writings.
The Baha'i Faith Manifest in Baha'u'llah.
The Baha'i Faith Exemplified by Abdul Baha.
The Baha'i Faith Interpreted by the Guardian.
The Baha'i Faith Institutions from UHJ to LSA.
All this and more I have subjected to "attacks"
through "fallacious arguments applied to the whole
of the Baha'i Faith?
Ten days.
Jerry Joplin
> Rod' s original statement-
> > The Primary School in its culture-awareness-policies-procedures is
> > (even as a secular environment) far and away a more 'spiritual',
> > protective and 'just' environment than the Baha'i community.
>
> Jerry Joplin's reflection and assessment-
> "Then I would say there are other attacks which are actually fallacious
> arguments applied to the whole of the Baha'i Faith. A good example of
> this is Rod's statement that the school system was far and away more
> spiritual environment than the Baha'i Faith. Which on the face of it,
> is patently absurd, but it touches on the type of attack which is often
> applied to the whole of the Baha'i Faith." Jerry J
>
> "attacks which are actually fallacious arguments applied to the
> whole of the Baha'i Faith".................
I'll gladly discuss this with you Rod once you identify the subject,
verb, and predicate of your statement. I don't think we can rationally
discuss this until you do.
Jerry
Pat Kohli
Jerry Joplin wrote:
I want you both to feel free to shoot me.
My read is that Rod has expressed concerns about the Baha'i _community_ -
"Community" being the keyword. This was seen as an attack on the whole of
the Baha'i Faith. The possiblity exists that Rod, good Baha'i that he is,
was not attacking the whole of the BF (AO, Central Figures, prayers, writings
of Central Figures, Holy Days, etc.), but, in his own way, was trying to draw
attention to his concerns about the Baha'i community.
Given that we have different schools systems, I didn't think Rod's comments
were not particularly illuminating - actually meaningless, since I don't
think that whatever problems he has in his community are common to my
community, and the comments about the schools in Oz don't point out the
problems in the Australian Baha'i community, or the Baha'i community on
southern Maryland, but I didn't think his comments were part of an attack on
the entirety of the BF.
Rod, Jerry, does this throw any light on things?
Best wishes!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
Rod
Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:3FA84B91...@ameritel.net...
you do.
>
> I want you both to feel free to shoot me.
I would never shoot you Pat.....not when I can get $10 for a fox....
What would a Kohli pelt fetch? ;-)
> My read is that Rod has expressed concerns about the Baha'i _community_ -
> "Community" being the keyword.
Yes....Clearly....obviously.... repeatedly pointed out and underlined.
Post after post emphasising the comparison being made between the protective
measures undertaken in one community and the procedural vacume in another.
Nothing could be clearer......so what's the holdup Pat?
> This was seen as an attack on the whole of the Baha'i Faith.
Not initially....no such suggestion was made...Jerry was quite happy
to misrepresent my post in innumerable other directions....his latest
lie is a recent development....one that he and he alone advocates.
Desperate for more "fun" perhaps?
> The possiblity exists that Rod, good Baha'i that he is,
> was not attacking the whole of the BF (AO, Central Figures, prayers,
writings
> of Central Figures, Holy Days, etc.),
Very generous of you Pat.....your dry wit and gentle humour
aside....for it matters not if I am the very best of Baha'is or the very
worst...it matters not if you love me as a brother or hate my stinking
guts...
You...as a Baha'i....are obliged to defend the core principles of justice...
not me as a person.
Nothing could be clearer......so what's the holdup Pat?
"The possiblity exists that Rod was not attacking the whole of the BF"
No Pat, this is not a time nor opportunity for diplomatic equivocation or
polite Baha'i evasion. There simply is NO "possibility" that what I said
could be interpreted as "attacking the whole of the BF"...especially in
the context of all the discussion that had transpired. You might just as
well suggest the "possibility exists" that your post was about gun control
because you mentioned shooting. Absurd, insane, offensive.
My statement is clear, Jerry's misrepresentation/lie and false allegation
is clear....your equivocation is also clear.
All you provide here, as if more was needed, is further confirmation of
the prevailing Culture of Denial within the Baha'i Community.
Jerry is a totally bizarre, spurious but none the less serious allegation
Nothing could be clearer......so what's the holdup Pat?
> but, in his own way, was trying to draw
> attention to his concerns about the Baha'i community.
Yes Pat.....And in my own funny little way I devoted thousands of words
over hundreds of posts clearly and repeatedly articulating precisely what
was said and intended. A number of others made similar attempt.
Every effort was met with evasion, questions cut, points cut,
misrepresentation,
forgery, lie and killfile.
This is not a 'misunderstanding' to be resolved by polite mediation Pat.
Jerry's allegation is conscious, deliberate, calculated and clear....he
wishes to allege that I have attacked the whole Baha'i Faith.
No slip of the tongue...no misreading and misinterpretation.......
a clear and serious allegation in the public domain.
Your response is also clear....while you do not believe Jerry's
reading of my post holds water...you are not going to object
to his public allegation are you Pat?
Is this conversation/scenario looking familiar to you Pat?
Need some links? You have provided me with several on
Baha'is defending other Baha'is from serious allegations.
Do you recall what they demonstrated?
> Given that we have different schools systems, I didn't think Rod's
comments
> were not particularly illuminating - actually meaningless,
Given that you are weeks too late and in the wrong thread it is a totally
inappropriate and highly offensive for you to join in the misrepresentation
in this- dedicated to a serious allegation- thread.
(Given that I made no comparison between school systems your
misrepresentation of my original comment is "actually meaningless")
> since I don't think that whatever problems he has in his community are
>common to my community,
Once more you misunderstand and misrepresent what was said...I made
no reference to "problems" in my "community"...my comment was
general in relation to the Baha'i community.
The irony Pat is that my comment related to precisely 'this' circumstance...
right here....right now....Jerry's allegation....your response.
*This* exchange...the very fact that I have to pull teath and
point out the obvious is what I was refering to.
A clear misrepresentation of my stated position has been made by Jerry.
The efforts made by myself and others preclude the possibility of
innocent mistake/misunderstanding.
Despite these efforts a serious and public allegation has been made
that I have "attacked" the "whole Baha'i Faith"
Now what, in terms of "spiritual, protective and just"-"culture-
awareness-policies-procedures" could reasonably be expected
to kick in here Pat?
You have already stated that you "didn't think" my "comments were
part of an attack on the entirety of the BF."....so let us assume, for
the time being, that the "whole Baha'i Faith is safe from me.
Is there anything else at stake here Pat?
Any other "spiritual, protective or justice" issues at hand?
Are you "aware" of any potential repercussions from a serious
and public allegation such as Jerry's?
Do you come from and reflect a Baha'i "culture" that recognises
and responds to what is at stake, what is at risk, what requires
"protection"?
What is your personal Baha'i "policy" in these circumstances Pat?
How have you "proceed" to put your personal policy and awareness
in action in this instance?
I would very much appreciate your response to each
of the questions I have asked.
It is important to me.
I tell you frankly Pat...I read Jerry's response and laughed....I read
yours and my impulse (then and now) was to offer you my sword.
Surrender or Seppaku....take it as you will.
You can have my resignation on this one.
Do I need to explain why? After all this time, after all the posts,
words, debate....do I need to articulate why I find your response
more offensive than Jerry's allegation?
Do I need to underline why your response to his allegation
is substantiation, validation and confirmation of my original
observation re "culture, awareness, protection"?
> and the comments about the schools in Oz don't point out the
> problems in the Australian Baha'i community, or the Baha'i community on
> southern Maryland,
Yes they do Pat....if I (as a teacher), in Oz or Maryland, stood up
in a staff meeting and declared "This schools culture sucks" and was
subsequently accused by a fellow staff member of having-
"Attacked the entire Education Department".....I'll bet my balls
two things would occur-
1/ The assembled staff, even those who didn't like me, would
resoundingly cry out- "Sit down Jerry, your talking bullshit again".
2/ Should `he persist with his bullshit and spread it abroad that
I have "Attacked the entire Education Department" I would be
availed of "Lot's of Grievance Procedure".....This I state
with the utmost confidence because even archaic Maryland
has crawled into the new century.
So please don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining Pat.
> but I didn't think his comments were part of an attack on
> the entirety of the BF.
That's right Pat....You don't think it was such an attack,
I don't think it was such an attack Lord help us I'll bet
even Susan wouldn't be stupid enough to back Jerry on
this one....and we could speculate all year about "fun" and
"Pavlovian bait" and what Jerry really believes....and none
of these "beliefs" counts for squat.
What counts is-
That the allegation has been made.
That the allegation is clear and unequivocal.
That it has been made in the public domain.
That it has been repeated in the public domain
That it is serious in its implications within the Baha'i community.
That precedent has already been established of such allegations
going off line to impact on individual Baha'is within the community.
What counts is what comes next.
What comes next Pat?
> Rod, Jerry, does this throw any light on things?
Yes Pat....As I stated above, your post, your response to Jerry's
allegation puts a Halogen spotlight on my original assertion re
"Baha'i community culture" and it's lack of "awareness" when it
comes to serious issues of "protection".
Your response perfectly reflects what I was referring to...what
I have been referring to for years.
As I said....
you can have my resignation from the Baha'i community on this one Pat.
Convince me I am/have been wrong all along... that this is not a community
of denial disinterested in basic justice provision....it shouldn't be hard,
the issue has been covered often enough in the past. I'm not looking
for much.
It's a golden opportunity Pat....a real life 'Scenario'-
Jerry Baha'i says Rod Baha'i has "attacked the whole Baha'i Faith"...
what should happen 'now' in a community in which justice is the
Best Beloved of All Things"?
Would you like some time to consult with Susan? ;-)
I'm sure she would have some views on the potential of facilitating
my resignation ;-)
Rod.
> > Rod wrote:
> > > Rod' s original statement-
> > > > The Primary School in its culture-awareness-policies-procedures is
> > > > (even as a secular environment) far and away a more 'spiritual',
> > > > protective and 'just' environment than the Baha'i community.
> > >
> > > Jerry Joplin's reflection and assessment-
> > > "Then I would say there are other attacks which are actually
fallacious
> > > arguments applied to the whole of the Baha'i Faith. A good example of
> > > this is Rod's statement that the school system was far and away more
> > > spiritual environment than the Baha'i Faith. Which on the face of
it,
> > > is patently absurd, but it touches on the type of attack which is
often
> > > applied to the whole of the Baha'i Faith." Jerry J
> > >
> Best wishes!
Rod
Rod-
> > Nope, the allusion and innuendo was yours...I called you out over it.
> > You have now come out and confirmed my call. You have, through
> > innuendo and open allegation, falsely depicted me as a Baha'i attacking
> > his own Faith.
Jerry Joplin-
> I don't have to use innuendo or allusion to say you are attacking the
> faith. You *ARE* attacking the Faith. You've admitted as much saying
> that you don't want to understand Baha'is, you want to expose them.
Rod <kas...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message news:3fa7...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...