Catholic Church Condones Gay Marriage
Robert A. Hayden
----
Subject: News From Hawaii's Marriage Project
Bob Morris, a volunteer with Hawaii's same sex marriage project,
wrote a review for project volunteers of John Boswell's lecture to
Integrity, Inc., General Convention of the Episcopal Church, July 6,
1988. John Boswell is Professor of European History at Yale and author
of ``Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality'' (University
of Chicago Press, 1980). The lecture was an early preview of Professor
Boswell's forthcoming book on the long history of Roman Catholic
blessing of a variety of same-sex unions among which continues to be
marriage. Please contact your local chapters of Integrity or
of Dignity (Roman Catholics) to find a video-taped copy of the 1988
lecture (or visit the marriage project in Honolulu!). Here's a
paraphrase of Morris' review:
For almost 1,500 years, starting as early as the 4th century,
the sacrament of same-sex marriage was recognized and celebrated by
the Catholic Church. In fact, such marriages were performed in
churches according to a written liturgy LONG BEFORE opposite-sex
marriages were performed in churches, and are still performed today
in some areas.
In a forthcoming book, Professor John Boswell will explain
numerous liturgical texts which describe sacramental marriage ceremonies
for same-sex couples. These were marriages in every sense: social,
legal, spiritual, and physical.
What did such a liturgy look and sound like?
The scriptural basis for the ceremony was Psalm 132 ("it is
good for brothers to dwell together") and I Corinthians 13 (Paul's
psalm on love). The scriptures and liturgy speak of unselfishness,
love unfeigned (agape), and unashamed fidelity. The partners held
crowns over each others' heads or performed other rituals of mutual
blessing.
The role models were the lovers, SERGE and BACCHUS. They are
authorized saints of the Roman Catholic Church. They were soldiers
in the Roman army whose devotion to each other was legendary. When
the emperor demanded that they worship the state gods, Serge and
Bacchus refused to deny the ``one true God'' and Jesus Christ.
For this, Serge and Baccus wer horribly tortured and put to
death AS CHRISTIAN MARTYRS. Bacchus, who died first, appeared to
Serge in a vision, saying: ``Because of your good and perfect
fidelity, you will have a crown of justice. Your reward in heaven
is me.''
A whole body of canon and civil law developed around these
marriages and the families they created. Such marriages were performed
IN ROME until the mid-18th century. Then, while the church was
still marrying same-sex couples, the civil government began burning
the partners at the stake. It was only later that the Church adopted
the civil government's long night of homophobia. A same-sex marriage
ceremony remains an officially approved rite of the Roman Catholic
Church.
--
____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
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Daniel J. Karnes
> For almost 1,500 years, starting as early as the 4th century,
>the sacrament of same-sex marriage was recognized and celebrated by
>the Catholic Church. In fact, such marriages were performed in
>churches according to a written liturgy LONG BEFORE opposite-sex
>marriages were performed in churches, and are still performed today
>in some areas.
>
Sure it is. In outcast churches who are separated from the mainline
Catholic Church.
> In a forthcoming book, Professor John Boswell will explain
>numerous liturgical texts which describe sacramental marriage ceremonies
>for same-sex couples. These were marriages in every sense: social,
>legal, spiritual, and physical.
>
Oh gawd.... Another queer found a typewriter. :(
> What did such a liturgy look and sound like?
>
> The scriptural basis for the ceremony was Psalm 132 ("it is
>good for brothers to dwell together") and I Corinthians 13 (Paul's
>psalm on love). The scriptures and liturgy speak of unselfishness,
>love unfeigned (agape), and unashamed fidelity. The partners held
>crowns over each others' heads or performed other rituals of mutual
>blessing.
>
"Brothers" does not refer to "queers".
> The role models were the lovers, SERGE and BACCHUS. They are
>authorized saints of the Roman Catholic Church. They were soldiers
>in the Roman army whose devotion to each other was legendary. When
>the emperor demanded that they worship the state gods, Serge and
>Bacchus refused to deny the ``one true God'' and Jesus Christ.
>
> For this, Serge and Baccus wer horribly tortured and put to
>death AS CHRISTIAN MARTYRS. Bacchus, who died first, appeared to
>Serge in a vision, saying: ``Because of your good and perfect
>fidelity, you will have a crown of justice. Your reward in heaven
>is me.''
>
That does not make them queers.
> A whole body of canon and civil law developed around these
>marriages and the families they created. Such marriages were performed
>IN ROME until the mid-18th century. Then, while the church was
>still marrying same-sex couples, the civil government began burning
>the partners at the stake. It was only later that the Church adopted
>the civil government's long night of homophobia. A same-sex marriage
>ceremony remains an officially approved rite of the Roman Catholic
>Church.
>
Rather *A* catholic church.
>____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
-djk
--
-==[ Daniel J. Karnes -=- WA6NDT ]=============================-
-==[ d...@Netcom.Com -=- d...@Halcyon.Com ]======================-
-==[ PO Box 233, Silverado, CA 92676-0233 ]====================-
-==[ djk hotline: 714/753-3527 -=- 24hrs. ]====================-
Fleeb The Fantastique
unbelievably, I am actually RESPONDING to this person.
In article <djkCIr...@netcom.com>, Daniel J. Karnes <d...@netcom.com> wrote:
>In article <1993Dec27....@vax1.mankato.msus.edu>
>hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu (Robert A. Hayden) writes:
>
>> For almost 1,500 years, starting as early as the 4th century,
>>the sacrament of same-sex marriage was recognized and celebrated by
>>the Catholic Church. In fact, such marriages were performed in
>>churches according to a written liturgy LONG BEFORE opposite-sex
>>marriages were performed in churches, and are still performed today
>>in some areas.
>
>Sure it is. In outcast churches who are separated from the mainline
>Catholic Church.
I can go to any of the Episcopal Churches in this area and marry
someone of my gender. And I'm in North Carolina. True, Episcopal
isn't precisely Catholic, but according to history, the Episcopal
Church seperated from the Roman Catholic Church, not the other way
around (if you take 'Episcopal' to be an extention of 'Anglican,'
which is a fair extention, I believe). At the time, the Catholic
Church badly needed reform, and wouldn't address it, so it started to
break up into Lutheranism, Calvanism, and Anglicism (to make up some
words.. basically, three or four new churches developed.. I could go
into detail, but I suspect I shouldn't bother).
BTW:, I really think you should invest some time in researching
Calvanism. You strike me as being of just the right mind-set for it.
>> In a forthcoming book, Professor John Boswell will explain
>>numerous liturgical texts which describe sacramental marriage ceremonies
>>for same-sex couples. These were marriages in every sense: social,
>>legal, spiritual, and physical.
>
>Oh gawd.... Another queer found a typewriter. :(
Yes, well, YOU did, too...
>> What did such a liturgy look and sound like?
>>
>> The scriptural basis for the ceremony was Psalm 132 ("it is
>>good for brothers to dwell together") and I Corinthians 13 (Paul's
>>psalm on love). The scriptures and liturgy speak of unselfishness,
>>love unfeigned (agape), and unashamed fidelity. The partners held
>>crowns over each others' heads or performed other rituals of mutual
>>blessing.
>>
>
>"Brothers" does not refer to "queers".
Of course, the concept of 'brotherhood' is so remote to you, as far as
I have been able to tell, that relying on your judgement of what is
and what is not 'brotherhood' strikes me as being equivalent to
relying on Satan for one's salvation. In a Christian sense, of course.
This point isn't to focus on the sexuality of the couple, but on their
dedication to each other. They love each other enough to enter into a
marraige, and this marraige can find its base in brotherhood (since
children are likely not to be involved). I've noticed that you've
ignored 'love unfeigned' and 'unashamed fidelity.' Probably because
it doesn't serve your ends; to belittle all that might be good that
doesn't conform to your narrow word-view.
>> The role models were the lovers, SERGE and BACCHUS. They are
>>authorized saints of the Roman Catholic Church. They were soldiers
>>in the Roman army whose devotion to each other was legendary. When
>>the emperor demanded that they worship the state gods, Serge and
>>Bacchus refused to deny the ``one true God'' and Jesus Christ.
>>
>> For this, Serge and Baccus wer horribly tortured and put to
>>death AS CHRISTIAN MARTYRS. Bacchus, who died first, appeared to
>>Serge in a vision, saying: ``Because of your good and perfect
>>fidelity, you will have a crown of justice. Your reward in heaven
>>is me.''
>>
>
>That does not make them queers.
"The role models were the LOVERS,..."
Assuming that your definition of 'queer' means 'people who would have
sex with one's own gender,' I would think most people would read
'lovers' as involving some measure of sexual intercourse. Perhaps
your understanding of English is a little different from the standard.
>> A whole body of canon and civil law developed around these
>>marriages and the families they created. Such marriages were performed
>>IN ROME until the mid-18th century. Then, while the church was
>>still marrying same-sex couples, the civil government began burning
>>the partners at the stake. It was only later that the Church adopted
>>the civil government's long night of homophobia. A same-sex marriage
>>ceremony remains an officially approved rite of the Roman Catholic
>>Church.
>>
>
>Rather *A* catholic church.
There is only one Roman Catholic Church. As I am not a Roman Catholic
(and I strongly doubt I will ever be one), I cannot say if their
same-sex marriage ceremonies remain an officially approved rite.
However, your staggering ignorance in this matter (which, hopefully,
I've already exposed) hardly makes you an expert, either.
The difference is, I admit it.
Who would be believed?
>>____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hay...@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
(thanks, Mr. Hayden, for your text)
>-==[ Daniel J. Karnes -=- WA6NDT ]=============================-
>-==[ d...@Netcom.Com -=- d...@Halcyon.Com ]======================-
>-==[ PO Box 233, Silverado, CA 92676-0233 ]====================-
>-==[ djk hotline: 714/753-3527 -=- 24hrs. ]====================-
This, of course, is the same DJK who cancelled one of my messages
several months ago. I had vowed not to respond to this person. I
think, after this message, I will adhere to that.
I wonder if this message will make it to the net... without being
cancelled.
- Trey/Fleeb/Elephantinus Memorius Sed Non Laetidinus
--
If this address doesn't work, try jvan...@uncavx.unca.edu.
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I can see clearly now the fallout's done. I can see all obstacles glow my way.
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