Recording a small choir & instruments
Hannes
I am a student in audio technology in Germany. Please excuse my simple
English, my last lesson took place really long ago.
I am going to do a recording in a church. There will be:
- a choir, consisting of 5 girls
- two instruments: an acoustic guitar and a small drum, both
played by members of the choir.
The problem is that the girls are not used in working with headphones. I
fear that they will not be able to perform properly when I first record
the instruments and then record the choir hearing the instruments and
themselves on the headphones.
So I consider two variants:
1. Recording the instruments first, then, while recording the
choir MS, playing the taped instruments in the correct panning
via loudspeakers and additionally make an AB-recording of the
diffused field.
Does this make sense? I wonder if there are the same sonic circumstances
in the diffuse field as when the instruments would be physically
present.
2. Recording all together, choir and instruments, with a
MS-microphone and supporting the instruments with single mics.
In this case I expect I will be having problems with the phase.
What would you prefer? Does anyone have other ideas how to make the
recording?
Unfortunately there is no German NG dealing with these problems, so I
hope to find help here.
Thanks a lot,
Hannes Krummheuer
2DJVengac
If so why are you not just letting them do that, without the nonsense of
headphones?
Scott Dorsey
>
>I am a student in audio technology in Germany. Please excuse my simple
>English, my last lesson took place really long ago.
My German is far worse. You are doing much better than I would be able to
do in German.
>I am going to do a recording in a church. There will be:
> - a choir, consisting of 5 girls
> - two instruments: an acoustic guitar and a small drum, both
> played by members of the choir.
>
>The problem is that the girls are not used in working with headphones. I
>fear that they will not be able to perform properly when I first record
>the instruments and then record the choir hearing the instruments and
>themselves on the headphones.
Why do you want to do this in multiple takes with overdubs? Why do you
want to use headphones anyway?
This seems like a very appropriate use for a single microphone pair, just
recording the whole ensemble as one. You have musicians who are used to
playing with one another and who naturally balance themselves, so don't
wreck up the balances. Just set up an ORTF pair and position it until you
get a good mix.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Lars Kr. Tofastrud
No reason at all to use headphones and stuff
Use a pair of Earthworks QTC1 and a good mic pre-amp and a nice
recorder. (Tascam 24bit DAT or some PC based stuff with at least 20 bit
resolution)
you should get a natural and correct balance if they are capable of
playing/singing together (I suppose they do)
Stereo will probably blow you away! Listen to your recording in a nice
mastering quality hi-fi room and you will be thrilled!
Best regards
Lars Tofastrud
Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> In article <1dq3sll.4gq...@ppp00664.01019freenet.de> sa...@gmx.de (Hannes) writes:
> >I am going to do a recording in a church. There will be:
> > - a choir, consisting of 5 girls
> > - two instruments: an acoustic guitar and a small drum, both
> > played by members of the choir.
>
Andre Vare
sa...@gmx.de (Hannes) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am a student in audio technology in Germany. Please excuse my simple
>English, my last lesson took place really long ago.
>
than what soem people write, but your clarity of meaning is amongst the
nest I have read.
>I am going to do a recording in a church. There will be:
> - a choir, consisting of 5 girls
> - two instruments: an acoustic guitar and a small drum, both
> played by members of the choir.
>
>The problem is that the girls are not used in working with headphones. I
>fear that they will not be able to perform properly when I first record
>the instruments and then record the choir hearing the instruments and
>themselves on the headphones.
>
Why do want to record the instruments separately? If the musicians
usually play and sing at the same time, then having them perform
separatelyu would cause them difficulty because they are not used to
that either.
>So I consider two variants:
>
>1. Recording the instruments first, then, while recording the
> choir MS, playing the taped instruments in the correct panning
> via loudspeakers and additionally make an AB-recording of the
> diffused field.
>Does this make sense? I wonder if there are the same sonic circumstances
>in the diffuse field as when the instruments would be physically
>present.
>
Bearing in mind what I wrote above, the diffuse filed shouldn't change
with the instruments present or absent.
>2. Recording all together, choir and instruments, with a
> MS-microphone and supporting the instruments with single mics.
>In this case I expect I will be having problems with the phase.
>
>What would you prefer? Does anyone have other ideas how to make the
>recording?
>
I definitely record all together with spot microphones for safety. I
would also try to have the musicians balance themselves. Do a take,
listen, and adjust performance levels accordingly. Spot mics would be
set up respecting the 3 to 1 rule. you didn't indicate what type of
recorder you will be using, but if it is one of the machines with
adjustable time delay per track, or you will have that in your mixdown
equipment, then make some reference recordings with a clicker at the
locations of the instruments so that you can adjust the delays for the
spot mics to line up with the main mics.
>Unfortunately there is no German NG dealing with these problems, so I
>hope to find help here.
>
It is a pleasure helping people, regardless of their language. Good
lucka nd let us know how it turns out!
--
Andre Vare Hamilton Wentworth Community Net: av...@hwcn.org
GuySonic
pair is directional and excludes side/rear ambiance with also inducing
undesirable and quite audible phase distortions. Setup is a bitch as you never
really know what you're going to get and it sounds different with each playback
system. Trusting what you hear during setup is not going to provide much
security with this microphone method.
Just spacing a single pair matched omni removes the phase distortions problem
nicely, but this mic method presents frequency dependent phase cancelations
(due to the spacing) that are audible to very audible with great difficulty or
impossible to remove after the fact with any satisfaction.
Setup is a bit easier with spaced omni method as the flanging is more
consistantly audible allowing the adjustments to be made with much necessary
reheasal as the sound stage+ambient is active in producing an acceptable
distance from the stage and spacing of the mic array. But, setup is still a
bitch as you can still never be completely sure of he final product even with
much setup time. Trusting what you hear is not part of this method of mic
technique.
With both these previous discussed methods, much luck and experience is needed
to get OK results.
An advanced method of mic technique again uses two matched omni, but with a
HRTF baffle between; and NO, this is not a disk or sphere baffle. This HRTF
baffle eliminates audible flanging common with spaced omni and makes setup a
snap as just listening with both ears in a normal "surround-sound" mode to what
the sound is like at any chosen mic position will reflect exactly the recorded
sound as reproduced by a wide variety of speakers and headphones. Setup is
most easy and reliable because the mics record in a manner that replicates how
sound is heard, but is not a binaural method with binaural limitations of
playback. DSM recorded Sound is naturally Pro Logic encoded for playback with
full 360 degree ambience available.
While my company provides both mics and HRTF baffle hardware specialized for
this purpose. Your choice of paired omni mic is your own, but HRTF baffles of
proper design are only available from Sonic Studios or use your own head to
baffle the similar mics.
A discussion of the HRTF recording method is found at:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm
Available hardware with reviews are also featured on the site listed below.
Best Regards in Sound & Music, Leonard Lombardo
Sonic Studios(tm) "Making Audio History With DSM(tm) Microphones"
Ph.541-459-8839 USA Free:1-888-875-4976 WEB: www.sonicstudios.com
"A bit of knowledge coupled to a great deal of wisdom serves us best"
Harry Lavo
I did small group live recording for many years. For this type of group you
are far better off with the M-S recording, or some other variation such as
ORTF or crossed figure 8's. Experiment with spacing (to control ambience).
With this small a group you can actually arrange them in a semicircle to
improve balance. Experiment. But don't dub.
Harry
Hannes wrote in message <1dq3sll.4gq...@ppp00664.01019freenet.de>...
>Hi,
>
>I am a student in audio technology in Germany. Please excuse my simple
>English, my last lesson took place really long ago.
>
>I am going to do a recording in a church. There will be:
> - a choir, consisting of 5 girls
> - two instruments: an acoustic guitar and a small drum, both
> played by members of the choir.
>
>The problem is that the girls are not used in working with headphones. I
>fear that they will not be able to perform properly when I first record
>the instruments and then record the choir hearing the instruments and
>themselves on the headphones.
>
>So I consider two variants:
>
>1. Recording the instruments first, then, while recording the
> choir MS, playing the taped instruments in the correct panning
> via loudspeakers and additionally make an AB-recording of the
> diffused field.
>Does this make sense? I wonder if there are the same sonic circumstances
>in the diffuse field as when the instruments would be physically
>present.
>
>2. Recording all together, choir and instruments, with a
> MS-microphone and supporting the instruments with single mics.
>In this case I expect I will be having problems with the phase.
>
>What would you prefer? Does anyone have other ideas how to make the
>recording?
>
>Unfortunately there is no German NG dealing with these problems, so I
>hope to find help here.
>