Zero Tolerance: Unloaded BB pistol = "deadly weapon by definition"
Frank Ney
April 08, 2001
Student may face felony charge over unloaded BB gun
By CHRISTINE REID
Scripps Howard News Service
BROOMFIELD, Colo. - A 16-year-old high school student may be charged with a
felony after school officials found an unloaded BB gun in his car.
The student, a sophomore at Legacy High School, was released to his parents
after the gun was found Wednesday under the seat of his car parked at Legacy
the school.
The BB gun was discovered shortly after 9 a.m. when the boy parked his car
in a lot not designated for student parking, police reported. An adult
monitor at the school told the student to report to the office and then
searched his car without his permission, according to reports. She reported
finding what she thought was a real handgun to police. It turned out to be
an unloaded BB gun.
The student told authorities he used it to target shoot at cans and had
forgotten it was in his car.
Prosecutors informed police the charge was a felony and the student must
appear in juvenile court.
"It is a deadly weapon by definition," said Adams County District Attorney
Bob Grant.
Punishments that could be levied against the student range from several
years in a locked-down juvenile corrections facility to a deferred sentence
with probation.
The school official who found the gun was within her legal limits to search
the student's car without permission, said Susan Carlson, director of public
affairs for Adams 12 Five Star Schools.
"Cars parked on school parking lots are treated as a locker in terms of
search and seizure," she said.
District policy allows for that type of search when there is "reasonable
suspicion" that something not allowed on school grounds is contained inside.
Carlson was unsure what circumstances led the Legacy official to become
suspicious.
The student also faces disciplinary action by school officials. According to
Adams district policy the infraction is grounds for exclusion, which could
mean either suspension or expulsion.
Frank Ney N4ZHG WV/EMT-B LPWV NRA(L) ProvNRA GOA CCRKBA JPFO
--
"Rulers of today's world are so obsessed with controlling us, with saving us
from our own bad habits and primitive instincts they'll stop at nothing. They
are a new breed of ideological dictators, the New World Order Utopians. And no
utopia is complete without its own GULAG."
- Ralph Raico, 9 April 2001
Just Say No to Gestapo Tactics http://reduce.to/justsayno/
Abuses by the BATF http://www.hamnet.net/~n4zhg/batfabus.html
~Panhead
>
> http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=EDU-BBGUN-04-08-01&cat=AN
>
> April 08, 2001
>
> Student may face felony charge over unloaded BB gun
Thank goodness he didn't draw a picture of it in art class.
That would REALLY get him in trouble.
Rob St.Denis
one ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
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"~Panhead" <panmy...@intac.com> wrote in message
news:3AD34660...@intac.com...
Bert Hyman
<OcIA6.74561$XV.18...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>:
>If he had used it in a crime an unloaded weapon looks the same as a
>loaded one ...
>
Well, there's an interesting distinction: ->IF he had used it in a
crime ...
Maybe we could apply that criterion in general: wait 'til somebody
commits an actual crime, rather than arresting people based on what
you think they ->might do.
Absolutely revolutionary!
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | be...@visi.com
Jim Allison
Frank Ney <n4...@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:3dg6dt8l82aooi7cl...@4ax.com...
> http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=EDU-BBGUN-04-08-01&cat=AN
>
> April 08, 2001
>
> Student may face felony charge over unloaded BB gun
> By CHRISTINE REID
> Scripps Howard News Service
>
> BROOMFIELD, Colo. - A 16-year-old high school student may be charged with
a
> felony after school officials found an unloaded BB gun in his car.
I may be mistaken on this, but a convicted felon loses his right to vote,
correct?
If so, this is a pretty lousy reason to take away someone's right to vote.
This country is really going the crapper fast.
Eric Gorr
> Maybe we could apply that criterion in general: wait 'til somebody
> commits an actual crime, rather than arresting people based on what
> you think they ->might do.
nah, that's far to radical a concept. :-)
--
== Eric Gorr ===== http://home.cox.rr.com/ericgorr ===== ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like violence, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===
Frank Ney
Allison" <alli...@home.com> to write:
>> BROOMFIELD, Colo. - A 16-year-old high school student may be charged with
>> a felony after school officials found an unloaded BB gun in his car.
>
>I may be mistaken on this, but a convicted felon loses his right to vote,
>correct?
Depends on the state but generally correct. He would also lose forever the
ability to purchase and own firearms, among other things. Forget military
service, forget getting a security clearance. Forget any employment
opportunity that requires bonding. Second-class citizenship forever.
If he was going for any scholarships or education assistance, they just went
down the shitter, too. Not that it matters -- he'll be going to college in
prison anyway.
Life really sucks for him right now. He's got few hopes.
>This country is really going the crapper fast.
You're only now just finding this out? Geez, forget the clue stick and bring
out the six-by-six.
Omnivore
"Rob St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote in message
news:OcIA6.74561$XV.18...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> If he had used it in a crime an unloaded weapon looks the same as a loaded
> one ...
Yea - If he had used it in a crime.
Your reasoning is about as applicable as his foot not looking any
different than a karate mans foot.
Rob St.Denis
unlocked ... thats rather irresponsible ...(and illegal up here I might add)
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
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"Omnivore" <sun...@SPAMOFFpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:9avpob$7c0$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk...
BD (Dave) Thompson
> Well he did have it concealled in his vehicle, unlocked, and the vehicle
> unlocked ... thats rather irresponsible ...(and illegal up here I might
add)
>
> --
> Rob St.Denis
>
It was a FRIKING BB gun, fer Christ's sake.
--
Dave
Rob St.Denis
wouldn't think it was "just a toy"
Fact is why was he hiding it unlocked under the seat of his unlocked car and
not in a locked case i nthe trunk if he had it for legit reasons ?
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
news:td6smt1...@corp.supernews.com...
bigguy
weapon. It wasn't used in a crime and if it was loaded or unloaded makes
no difference. The proof - did the acticle say he was being charged with
having a concealed weapon? The official that searched the vehicle
clearly didn't have that right. The only thing that the kid did was park
his car in the wrong spot. The police and school board are telling him
right now the correct words to use to justify the search. The fellow
would have been in less trouble getting back in his car and hitting the
"official" as he drove away. The owner of the vehicle has the "right" to
lock the car or leave it unlocked down here, but you know that.
Rob St.Denis
muzzle energy, at a short distance, that pellet has sufficient energy to
pierce clothing and tissue
why did the official search the car? perhaps he saw the gun and went in for
a closer look ... it is perfectly legal to do a non invasive search of
private property
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"bigguy" <big...@tough.com> wrote in message
news:3AD37FB4...@tough.com...
Jackson Harvey
> a bb gun can kill someone ... at 500fps a .177 pellet has about 12ft lbs
> muzzle energy, at a short distance, that pellet has sufficient energy to
> pierce clothing and tissue
A board, a shirt, a car: these are all lethal weapons. Hands are lethal,
pencils are lethal. It is stupid to make carrying a lethal weapon illegal; it
makes far more sense to make violence against someone without their consent
illegal. And what do you know, it already is!
This country is law-happy, and it is causing us trouble. Laws are always
enforced by threat of deadly force.
Jackson Harvey
"moderate" Libertarian
Beelzebu
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>a bb gun can kill someone ... at 500fps a .177 pellet has about 12ft lbs
>muzzle energy, at a short distance, that pellet has sufficient energy to
>pierce clothing and tissue
>
>why did the official search the car? perhaps he saw the gun and went in for
>a closer look ... it is perfectly legal to do a non invasive search of
>private property
>
>--
So Mom was wrong when she said "stop playing with that thing or you
gonna poke an eye out"?
"I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say
it." Voltaire.
"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."
Hubert H. Humphrey.
Producciones Infernales C.A. (A division of Averno Inc.)
Michael Eglestone
> "Rob St.Denis" wrote:
>
> Well if ya were ever on the business end of one in a stick up ya certainly
> wouldn't think it was "just a toy"
>
> Fact is why was he hiding it unlocked under the seat of his unlocked car and
> not in a locked case i nthe trunk if he had it for legit reasons ?
----------------------------------
Rob, go to the chalkboard and write, "I am a fucking Moron." 500
times and then get back to us!
Most kids get their first BB gun at the age of 7 or 8 in this
country. A person could do a LOT more damage with a Bow and Arrow, and
those are not even considered to be dangerous weapons. They TEACH
Archery in most of the Public Schools in this area!
The U.S. Public School System has gone Insane!
---------------
Mike Eglestone (Democrat) (NRA - GOA)
Senior Master Sergeant (E-8)
United States Air Force, Retired
~Panhead
And a "Friking BB Gun" needs the same type of paperwork as any
handgun in order to purchase, here in the land o' NJ anyway.
Same with a sling shot...just about.
Rob St.Denis
makes sense to consider it a lethal one.
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
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\----------------------------------------------/
"Jackson Harvey" <harv...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3AD38287...@tc.umn.edu...
Rob St.Denis
... lets just face the fact that a pistol was designed to be concealable ...
and btw ... bows are weapons too ...
they teach archery and marksmanship in some schools up here too. But it
appears to me that this kid did not take the teachings to heart. He is 16
carrying a bb gun in his car ... what next 21 and carrying a glock?
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Michael Eglestone" <sms...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3AD389CF...@bellsouth.net...
Michael Eglestone
> "Rob St.Denis" wrote:
>
> a bb gun can kill someone ... at 500fps a .177 pellet has about 12ft lbs
> muzzle energy, at a short distance, that pellet has sufficient energy to
> pierce clothing and tissue
>
> why did the official search the car? perhaps he saw the gun and went in for
> a closer look ... it is perfectly legal to do a non invasive search of
> private property
-----------------------------------------------------
Change of plan, Rob, write (I am a Fucking Moron) 1,000 times instead
of 500!
Kindly point out any part of that article which stated that the BB
Gun was capable of firing a .177 pellet. You are aware of the fact
that there IS a difference between a BB Gun and a Pellet Gun that will
also fire a BB.
So far you have the kid up on Felony Criminal Charges because he
MIGHT do something wrong with a TOY!
YOU, and your insanity, are more dangerous than that kid's BB gun
ever though about being!
betweentheeyes
"Frank Ney" <n4...@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:3dg6dt8l82aooi7cl...@4ax.com...
Rob St.Denis
you need a firearms licence (unrestricted or better)
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"~Panhead" <panmy...@intac.com> wrote in message
news:3AD38A3F...@intac.com...
Michael Eglestone
> "Rob St.Denis" wrote:
> they teach archery and marksmanship in some schools up here too. But it
> appears to me that this kid did not take the teachings to heart. He is 16
> carrying a bb gun in his car ... what next 21 and carrying a glock?
--------------------------------
I certainly hope that you aren't typical of your breed, Rob. If so,
the Gene Pool REALLY needs to be cleaned up in your area!
What a total MORON!
Rob St.Denis
the difference (to let you know) is the distance between lands and grooves
(deeper for pellets) the loading (most bb guns have huge reserves) and the
accuracy (most bb guns out there do not have rifling, and in that are less
accurate than a pellet).
Also, most media do not distinguish the difference between bb and pellet and
group the lot together as bb gun
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
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"Michael Eglestone" <sms...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3AD38D37...@bellsouth.net...
wavoka
Chuck Bridgeland
>http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=EDU-BBGUN-04-08-01&cat=AN
>
>BROOMFIELD, Colo. - A 16-year-old high school student may be charged with a
>felony after school officials found an unloaded BB gun in his car.
>
>The student, a sophomore at Legacy High School, was released to his parents
>after the gun was found Wednesday under the seat of his car parked at Legacy
>the school.
>
>The BB gun was discovered shortly after 9 a.m. when the boy parked his car
>in a lot not designated for student parking, police reported. An adult
>monitor at the school told the student to report to the office and then
>searched his car without his permission, according to reports. She reported
One more real good reason to park off campus.
--
"You will know pain. . ." "and you will know fear." "and you will
know death. Have a nice flight."
chuck bridgeland chuckbri at mwci dot net
http://users.mwci.net/~chuckbri
Rob St.Denis
before?
oh right right ... he just plum forgot the gun in his car ... rrrrright ...
That is really responsible of him ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Michael Eglestone" <sms...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3AD38E8D...@bellsouth.net...
Jackson Harvey
> The point being though is that a bb gun is a weapon by nature and thereby it
> makes sense to consider it a lethal one.
I don't think that is the point. I think the point is that he didn't use the
weapon on anyone, so it is no one's business that he had it. That he had it in
an unlocked car is another matter.
Jackson Harvey
"moderate" Libertarian
Rob St.Denis
seat ... but because I haven't killed anyone yet thats ok ?
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Jackson Harvey" <harv...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3AD391C7...@tc.umn.edu...
BD (Dave) Thompson
> Well if ya were ever on the business end of one in a stick up ya certainly
> wouldn't think it was "just a toy"
>
> Fact is why was he hiding it unlocked under the seat of his unlocked car
and
> not in a locked case i nthe trunk if he had it for legit reasons ?
>
> --
> Rob St.Denis
>
Puleez. I don't care if you are a rent-a-cop or not. I have never been
intimidated by a pellet pistol. Hurt? Yes. Put an eye out? Yes. Make me
give up my wallet when a .40 S&W is right above my wallet.
Hardly,
--
Dave
BD (Dave) Thompson
> Well ... why exactly would he "forget" his gun in the car from the night
> before?
>
> oh right right ... he just plum forgot the gun in his car ... rrrrright
...
>
> That is really responsible of him ...
>
> --
> Rob St.Denis
>
Like I said before, it was a FRIKIN' BB gun, not a .44 Magnum. And, no BB
guns do not lead children to the hard stuff like Glocks.
Putz.
--
Dave
Michael Eglestone
> "Rob St.Denis" wrote:
>
> So basically I can keep my s&w 4046 in the car ... unlocked and under my
> seat ... but because I haven't killed anyone yet thats ok ?
>
> --
> Rob St.Denis
-------------------
Face facts, Rob - You're a Moron, Rob!
---
Michael Eglestone
> "Rob St.Denis" wrote:
>
> Well ... why exactly would he "forget" his gun in the car from the night
> before?
Michael Eglestone
> "Rob St.Denis" wrote:
>
> regardless of pellet or bb .. .a bb will do the same damage ...
Jackson Harvey
> So basically I can keep my s&w 4046 in the car ... unlocked and under my
> seat ... but because I haven't killed anyone yet thats ok ?
Let me repeat, for others who didn't read the whole two line post:
BD (Dave) Thompson
> The point being though is that a bb gun is a weapon by nature and thereby
it
> makes sense to consider it a lethal one.
>
> --
> Rob St.Denis
>
> Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
> /----------------------------------------------\
Just one final question. Does your company know how stupid you are? If you
own the company, do you have a clue as to how stupid you sound to potential
customers?
--
Dave
BD (Dave) Thompson
What's next? Assault BB guns? Geez! Here in Nevada, just trot down to
Wally World and pick up a 'concealable' pellet pistol and an 'Assault Pellet
Rifle" with no paperwork.
--
Dave
Rob St.Denis
difference between a real gun and a pellet gun
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
news:td74r5q...@corp.supernews.com...
Rob St.Denis
toting brain washing from the NRA "guns are our friends, they don't hurt
anyone,m but make sure if someone walks on your lawn to shoot em good and
dead"
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
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"Michael Eglestone" <sms...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3AD39416...@bellsouth.net...
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
news:td75462...@corp.supernews.com...
Rob St.Denis
still is careless with his gun ... when he's 21 and can purchase one legally
whats saying he wont do the same thing ?
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
news:td75462...@corp.supernews.com...
>
Rob St.Denis
entering the car first ... if he did see it from outside he had every right
to ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"Jackson Harvey" <harv...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3AD39490...@tc.umn.edu...
Bert Hyman
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>well there was nothing there stating the monitor didnt see the gun without
>entering the car first ... if he did see it from outside he had every right
>to ...
>
If you use certain modern perversions of the definition for "right", that is.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@visi.com
Rob St.Denis
accurate enough for target practice. It can kill. That makes it a lethal
weapon.
I don't own the company ... I just work there while I'm in school. They
know I know what I'm talking about when it comes to firearms and other
weapons ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
news:td757ps...@corp.supernews.com...
Bert Hyman
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>The average person does not carry that, nor could they distinguish the
>difference between a real gun and a pellet gun
>
What would a Canadian know about handguns, anyway?
Rob St.Denis
must be kept in their storage and use ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
news:td75e95...@corp.supernews.com...
Rob St.Denis
quite a bit ... heck I have an airgun here for plinking that at a distance
has a striking resemblance to my 4046
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns907FBC6EFF...@209.98.98.13...
Rob St.Denis
it from his unlocked car ?
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns907FBC2C3C9...@209.98.98.13...
Bert Hyman
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns907FBC2C3C9...@209.98.98.13...
>> In <_FMA6.75297$XV.19...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> "Rob St.Denis"
>> <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> well there was nothing there stating the monitor didnt see the gun
>>> without entering the car first ... if he did see it from outside he had
>>> every right to ...
>>>
>> If you use certain modern perversions of the definition for "right",
>> that is.
>>
>>If its in plain sight ... then what would have stopped someone from
>>stealing it from his unlocked car ?
>
The same thing that would keep someone from stealing the radio from the
car, stealing the seats out of the car, stealing the wheels off the car,
perhaps stealing the entire car.
But what the HECK does any of that have to do with what we're talking about
here?
Please try to concentrate!
And STOP TOP POSTING! It's an immediate give away that you've been
corrupted by Bill Gates.
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
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\----------------------------------------------/
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-9036C7...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> In article <3dg6dt8l82aooi7cl...@4ax.com>,
> cro...@barkingmad.org wrote:
>
> > "Cars parked on school parking lots are treated as a locker in terms of
> > search and seizure," she said.
> >
> > District policy allows for that type of search when there is "reasonable
> > suspicion" that something not allowed on school grounds is contained
> > inside.
>
> She still didn't have the requisite probable cause. According to the
> fact pattern, all the kid did was to park in the wrong place. How that
> leads to "suspicion that something not allowed on school grounds is
> contained inside" is beyond me.
>
> If I were the judge, I'd suppress the search and send the kid home to
> his parents.
BTR1701
Bert Hyman
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns907FBC6EFF...@209.98.98.13...
>> In <XBMA6.75275$XV.19...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com> "Rob St.Denis"
>> <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The average person does not carry that, nor could they distinguish the
>>> difference between a real gun and a pellet gun
>>>
>>
>> What would a Canadian know about handguns, anyway?
>>
>>Well considering you cant go to a city without finding a range nearby ...
>quite a bit ... heck I have an airgun here for plinking that at a distance
>has a striking resemblance to my 4046
>
S&W? Why am I not surprised?
Rob St.Denis
time into the post.
The difference being ... what if some kid decided to steal his gun (that was
for legit reasons of course) and use it in a crime? BEcause he did not lock
up that gun, he essentially supplied it to the kid that used it.
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns907FBD774C6...@209.98.98.13...
BTR1701
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> they teach archery and marksmanship in some schools up here too. But it
> appears to me that this kid did not take the teachings to heart. He is
> 16 carrying a bb gun in his car ... what next 21 and carrying a glock?
Oh, my god! You're right! He'll be carrying a LAWS by age 25 and flying
an Apache to work by 30. We must put a stop to this before it gets out
of control...
Moron.
Josh Geller
Rob St.Denis <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> I'd rather do it this way ... simply because I dont want to invest
> too much time into the post.
Yes, reading the whole post and understanding it - that really is
more than we can legitimately expect of you.
Robb
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>If he had used it in a crime an unloaded weapon looks the same as a loaded
>one ...
Yeah, and IF I had used my penis in a rape...
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Josh Geller" <dcl...@best.com> wrote in message
news:h6NA6.4521$Up.1...@sea-read.news.verio.net...
Rob St.Denis
unlike the glocks so popular down there its a real gun ... not a plastic toy
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns907FBDE5974...@209.98.98.13...
Josh Geller
Rob St.Denis <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> a bb gun is a weapon ... it is designed to kill ... period. It is not
> accurate enough for target practice. It can kill.
You can beat someone to death with one, that's a fact.
Josh Geller
BD \(Dave\) Thompson <A...@For.It> wrote:
> "Rob St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:OULA6.75121$XV.18...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
>> The point being though is that a bb gun is a weapon by nature and thereby
>> it makes sense to consider it a lethal one.
> Just one final question. Does your company know how stupid you are?
Rob's from Canada.
Josh Geller
Rob St.Denis <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> The average person ... [could not] distinguish the difference
> between a real gun and a pellet gun
How would you know what the average person can and cannot distinguish,
Rob?
Robb
<tstden...@home.com> wrote:
>regardless of pellet or bb .. .a bb will do the same damage ...
>
>the difference (to let you know) is the distance between lands and grooves
>(deeper for pellets) the loading (most bb guns have huge reserves) and the
>accuracy (most bb guns out there do not have rifling, and in that are less
>accurate than a pellet).
>
>Also, most media do not distinguish the difference between bb and pellet and
>group the lot together as bb gun
In that case, chop off all your fingers... they could do as much
damage as a pellet as well.
Rob St.Denis
carelssness throughout their lives ... maybe a charge will get him to think
twice
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-2457C9...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
Rob St.Denis
kill ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
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"Robb" <rob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k887dtkldqu8b9knt...@4ax.com...
Rob St.Denis
pictures of hand guns (firearms and air guns)... and ~72% of themn could not
... they are trying to make it necessary to have a licence for them that why
it went out ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Josh Geller" <dcl...@best.com> wrote in message
news:%bNA6.4524$Up.1...@sea-read.news.verio.net...
Josh Geller
Rob St.Denis <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> notice noone here ran rebut the facts ... you have to go back to your gun
> toting brain washing from the NRA "guns are our friends, they don't hurt
> anyone,m but make sure if someone walks on your lawn to shoot em good and
> dead"
Rob, the NRA is in favor of gun control.
They are part of the problem.
JPFO is the real deal.
Rob St.Denis
with a 2-300 round reserve ... ones bound to hit) or eyes etc can result in
the person bleeding to death ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Josh Geller" <dcl...@best.com> wrote in message
news:U9NA6.4523$Up.1...@sea-read.news.verio.net...
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Josh Geller" <dcl...@best.com> wrote in message
news:AkNA6.4526$Up.1...@sea-read.news.verio.net...
Marksman
> have you ever thought that typically careless people tend to continue
their
> carelssness throughout their lives ... maybe a charge will get him to
think
> twice
>
So we should charge you with stupidity. Maybe then you'd learn some sense.
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Ask around ... I remember there was a poll done here in Ottawa with a set of
>pictures of hand guns (firearms and air guns)... and ~72% of themn could not
>... they are trying to make it necessary to have a licence for them that why
>it went out ...
I have a Beretta Cougar in .40S&W, and a KSC Cougar in 6mm Airsoft.
The former is a fairly powerful semi-automatic pistol.
The latter is a gas-powered pellet gun. The 6mm plastic pellet won't
penetrate skin at point-blank range. (It stings less than a paint-gun).
I've had people hold one in each hand and not be able to tell them apart.
--
Quidam ludunt, quidam bibunt,
quidam indiscrete vivunt,
sed in ludu qui morandur,
ex his quidam denudantur.
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Jeffrey C. Dege" <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9d78vc...@jdege.visi.com...
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Well if ya were ever on the business end of one in a stick up ya certainly
>wouldn't think it was "just a toy"
>
>Fact is why was he hiding it unlocked under the seat of his unlocked car and
>not in a locked case i nthe trunk if he had it for legit reasons ?
Why would you lock a toy in a case?
And as for why under the seat? So people didn't break the window and
steal it.
Rob St.Denis
I know you hill billies are fond of the shot guns on the gun rack in that
beat up old chevy you drive to work ...
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Marksman" <nu...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:RrNA6.2070$Bz.8...@news2.atl...
BTR1701
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> "BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:btr1702-2457C9...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> > In article <xXLA6.75127$XV.18...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>, "Rob
> > St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > > they teach archery and marksmanship in some schools up here too. But
> > > it
> > > appears to me that this kid did not take the teachings to heart. He
> > > is
> > > 16 carrying a bb gun in his car ... what next 21 and carrying a
> > > glock?
> >
> > Oh, my god! You're right! He'll be carrying a LAWS by age 25 and flying
> > an Apache to work by 30. We must put a stop to this before it gets out
> > of control...
> >
> >
> > Moron.
>
> have you ever thought that typically careless people tend to continue
> their carelssness throughout their lives ... maybe a charge will get him to
> think twice
What I have thought is that people like you are a greater danger to the
freedoms and way of life that this country was founded upon than the
Soviet Union ever was.
Ed Reppert
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> most media do not distinguish the difference between bb and pellet and
> group the lot together as bb gun
Most media idiots wouldn't know the difference between a bb gun and a
Browning M2.
BTR1701
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> "BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:btr1702-9036C7...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> perhaps the gun was visible
It was reported as being under his seat. Only when the teacher opened
the truck to search it did she find it.
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Ed Reppert" <erep...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ereppert-ABDBAC...@news-server.rochester.rr.com...
Marksman
> I'm not the one who leaves a weapon in his unlocked car ...
So stupidity it is.
>
> I know you hill billies are fond of the shot guns on the gun rack in that
> beat up old chevy you drive to work ...
>
Sounds like your kind of trailer trash. Better add bigot to that charge of
stupidity you have going against you.
Jeffrey C. Dege
>My point exactly ...
Well, if your point is that they can look identical? Yes, they can.
Can they confuse people? Yes, they can.
Is there some problem with having one in your car? No.
That it looks like a gun does not make it a gun.
Now, if you were to take it out and wave it around, and ended up shot
by a cop, I'd be among the first to excuse him.
But simply because you own one, and left it in your car?
That is not an indication of criminal, violent, or any sort of anti-social
behavior.
--
Windows2000 - from the people who brought you edlin.
BTR1701
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> "Robb" <rob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:k887dtkldqu8b9knt...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:52:38 GMT, "Rob St.Denis"
> > <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > >regardless of pellet or bb .. .a bb will do the same damage ...
> > >
> > >the difference (to let you know) is the distance between lands and
> grooves
> > >(deeper for pellets) the loading (most bb guns have huge reserves) and
> the
> > >accuracy (most bb guns out there do not have rifling, and in that are
> less
> > >accurate than a pellet).
> > >
> > >Also, most media do not distinguish the difference between bb and
> > >pellet
> and
> > >group the lot together as bb gun
> >
> > In that case, chop off all your fingers... they could do as much
> > damage as a pellet as well.
>
> again ... you people have to realise guns were designed to be weapons and
> to kill ...
Not BB guns. They are not specifically designed to be used as weapons
and certainly not to kill. They are designed as toys.
Rob St.Denis
people ... it is a weapon ... not a toy
at the very least ... he should have had it locked i nthe glove box ... that
way if in the least someone had snooped through his car it would not have
been in plain sight as it was
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Jeffrey C. Dege" <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9d792v...@jdege.visi.com...
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-602AC6...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
Ed Reppert
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> a bb gun is a weapon ... it is designed to kill ... period.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!
Don't *DO* that! I just spewed soda all over my monitor!
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Well a bb gun is different than a airsoft gun ... it can and has killed
>people ... it is a weapon ... not a toy
>
>at the very least ... he should have had it locked i nthe glove box ... that
>way if in the least someone had snooped through his car it would not have
>been in plain sight as it was
My glove box isn't big enough to hold a pistol. And for that matter,
it doesn't lock. Do you have evidence that his glove box would hold
the pistol? Or that it could be locked?
And he was driving a pickup. He didn't have a trunk.
--
Tempore brumali vir patiens.
Animo vernali Lasciviens.
O, o, totus floreo,
jam amore virginali totus ardeo,
novus, novus amor est, quo pereo.
Marksman
> hows that ?
>
You are a fascist. You have no comprehension of rights.
Ed Reppert
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> Fact is why was he hiding it unlocked under the seat of his unlocked car
> and not in a locked case i nthe trunk if he had it for legit reasons ?
Better watch out, Rob. "They" are out to get you, you know. And make
sure you keep your tinfoil hat on. Them mind rays is dangerous.
BTR1701
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> "BD (Dave) Thompson" <A...@For.It> wrote in message
> news:td757ps...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Rob St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:OULA6.75121$XV.18...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
> > > The point being though is that a bb gun is a weapon by nature and
> thereby
> > it
> > > makes sense to consider it a lethal one.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rob St.Denis
> > >
> > > Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
> > > /----------------------------------------------\
> >
> >
> > Just one final question. Does your company know how stupid you are? If you
> > own the company, do you have a clue as to how stupid you sound to potential
> > customers?
> >
> a bb gun is a weapon ... it is designed to kill ... period. It is not
> accurate enough for target practice. It can kill. That makes it a lethal
> weapon.
What color is the sky in your world? BB guns are designed and marketed
as toys for children. If it were intended to be a lethal weapon, do you
really think you'd find them in the toy section of a department store?
There's a difference between something that CAN kill if misused and
something that is designed to kill.
> I don't own the company ... I just work there while I'm in school. They
> know I know what I'm talking about when it comes to firearms and other
> weapons ...
All evidence to the contrary, you don't.
B. Richardson
Special Agent
U.S. Secret Service
Rob St.Denis
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Jeffrey C. Dege" <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
news:slrn9d799c...@jdege.visi.com...
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:24:14 GMT, Rob St.Denis <tstden...@home.com>
wrote:
> Is there some problem with having one in your car? No.
If it is locked up in the car so someone couldn';t readily reach in and take
it
> That it looks like a gun does not make it a gun.
No but it is still a weapon ... there is still a distinction between firearm
and airgun ...
> Now, if you were to take it out and wave it around, and ended up shot
> by a cop, I'd be among the first to excuse him.
>
> But simply because you own one, and left it in your car?
He brought it on private property ... he left it visible in the car ... that
is how guns get in the hands of criminals in the first place
>
> That is not an indication of criminal, violent, or any sort of anti-social
> behavior.
hiding a gun under the seat of his car leads one to believe he had it in the
car for other reasons ... under the seat tends to be quite dirty ... and
besides the gun would slide around quite a bit ... keeping it in a lockbox
of field locker is cheap and easy to safely store it.
>
> --
> Windows2000 - from the people who brought you edlin.
If I werent so lazy ... this would be bsd =)
BTR1701
St.Denis" <tstden...@home.com> wrote:
> Ask around ... I remember there was a poll done here in Ottawa with a set of
> pictures of hand guns (firearms and air guns)... and ~72% of themn could not
> ... they are trying to make it necessary to have a licence for them that why
> it went out ...
Leave it to the Canadians... if they could they'd make everyone get a
license to breathe.
David Lentz
bigguy wrote:
>
> Rob you're getting completely out of control. A bb gun is not a lethal
> weapon. It wasn't used in a crime and if it was loaded or unloaded makes
> no difference. The proof - did the acticle say he was being charged with
> having a concealed weapon? The official that searched the vehicle
> clearly didn't have that right. The only thing that the kid did was park
> his car in the wrong spot. The police and school board are telling him
> right now the correct words to use to justify the search. The fellow
> would have been in less trouble getting back in his car and hitting the
> "official" as he drove away. The owner of the vehicle has the "right" to
> lock the car or leave it unlocked down here, but you know that.
I ain't no lawyer, but I think the charge should not stick.
According to Black's Law Dictionary, a Deadly Weapon is an
instrument capable of causing death or serious physical injury
when used as intended. A BB gun locked in a trunk, isn't
intended to cause much harm to anybody. Useless you can show the
defendent intended to beat somebody to death with it.
In contrast, a Deadly Weapon per se is a instructment capable of
causing death as ordinarily used, i.e. a gun.
David
--
qyra...@ebpurfgre.ee.pbz
Rob St.Denis
hardly
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"Ed Reppert" <erep...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ereppert-8D44FC...@news-server.rochester.rr.com...
Rob St.Denis
house ... i have every right to search em to make sure they arent carrying!
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-534360...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
Marksman
> then tell me what an innacurate bb gun is designed for ? target practice?
> hardly
>
Plinking and short range target practice.
Marksman
Here you say it was visable, but...
>
> >
> > That is not an indication of criminal, violent, or any sort of
anti-social
> > behavior.
>
> hiding a gun under the seat of his car leads one to believe he had it in
the
> car for other reasons ... under the seat tends to be quite dirty ... and
> besides the gun would slide around quite a bit ... keeping it in a lockbox
> of field locker is cheap and easy to safely store it.
>
Here you say he was hiding it. Do you have ANY idea of what you are talking
about?
Marksman
> then why do they fire steel or lead shot and not plastic or rubber?
because
> rubber and plastic won't kill
>
You really believe this ignorance don't you?
Rob St.Denis
rubber and plastic won't kill
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-3E532C...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
Marksman
> never the less ... the car was on private property ... someone comes into
my
> house ... i have every right to search em to make sure they arent
carrying!
>
You don't have the right to search any car on your property.
Jeffrey C. Dege
>
>"Jeffrey C. Dege" <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote in message
>news:slrn9d799c...@jdege.visi.com...
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:24:14 GMT, Rob St.Denis <tstden...@home.com>
>wrote:
>> Is there some problem with having one in your car? No.
>
>If it is locked up in the car so someone couldn';t readily reach in and take
>it
Were the doors locked?
>> That it looks like a gun does not make it a gun.
>
>No but it is still a weapon ... there is still a distinction between firearm
>and airgun ...
Yep. And a BB gun is an airgun.
>> Now, if you were to take it out and wave it around, and ended up shot
>> by a cop, I'd be among the first to excuse him.
>>
>> But simply because you own one, and left it in your car?
>
>He brought it on private property ... he left it visible in the car ... that
>is how guns get in the hands of criminals in the first place
No he didn't leave it visible in the car. It was under the seat.
>>
>> That is not an indication of criminal, violent, or any sort of anti-social
>> behavior.
>
>hiding a gun under the seat of his car leads one to believe he had it in the
>car for other reasons ...
Not to me, it doesn't. I stick things under the seat all the time.
>under the seat tends to be quite dirty
Mine isn't. But I clean my car now and again.
>... and
>besides the gun would slide around quite a bit ...
My car is carpetted under the seats - things don't slide unless I drive
like an idiot.
>keeping it in a lockbox
>of field locker is cheap and easy to safely store it.
Lockbox, field locker, how much effort do you expect him to use to
"secure" a toy that may have cost him less than $20?
--
You'd think that after all this time
I would have dreamed up a really clever .sig!
Rob St.Denis
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
> Here you say it was visable, but...
> > besides the gun would slide around quite a bit ... keeping it in a
lockbox
> Here you say he was hiding it. Do you have ANY idea of what you are
talking
> about?
Read the whole post before making an ass of yourself
Rob St.Denis
picking up replica guns legally and using em in a crime (a year or so a go a
guy used one to try to convince doctors in a toronto hospital to let his kid
in fast ... and cops ended up shooting him dead when he pointed his "toy" at
them) then why not register em so people will have to be responsible for
their actions
--
Rob St.Denis
Security Officer - Securworks Protection Services Inc.
/----------------------------------------------\
| Cell (613)296-0094 |
| Email: fzx...@yahoo.ca |
| Home Page: http://robstdenis.home.dhs.org |
\----------------------------------------------/
"BTR1701" <btr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:btr1702-E25C73...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...