http://www.prozactruth.com/
amd500k6
SqUiGgLeS
>
> What do u think of this website?
Something has happened to it - it is not the
same anymore;
--
"Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good
is not original and the part that is original is not good."
- Samuel Johnson
Porthos.
<no4e...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>What do u think of this website?
>
Not sure what to make of it? Here are some of my "first
impressions". May need to revise some of these impressions after
more study..
The site has some valuable information that I have not seen
anywhere else such as the list of doctors by the area of the
country, and a description as to what their drug philosophy is.
That is something a number of people need. And if the list could
be added to, it could end up being terrific.
One item to consider:
Although we have discussed many times how this or that might be a
"scientologist" etc, almost every time it is not. But rather a
propaganda attempt to try to divert attention from any article
that might not be favorable to drugs. Fortunately this tactic
has mostly disappeared over the last year. The impression I get
in reading this site is that it "might be" a scientologist site.
That comes from a combination of adding in religious type
messages and reference to a scientology site etc. Do not see any
problem with either, but it does raise the question and might
turn some people away from some good information.
Another item to consider:
The information on vitamins appears to be almost like an
advertisement etc. Should that be a major purpose of the site,
it would be good if that was owned up to up front. If it is not
one of the major purposes, then it could help if the vitamin page
were developed in a fashion as to provide useful and unbiased
information on that. Once there are "sales " involved, then
objectivity is not as well guaranteed.
In addition to the list of doctors which I found interesting, I
also found the letter from the editor interesting. And would
like to quote some of the items in the letter from the editor.
Which I seem to like quite a bit because it depicts some
situations which hopefully do not happen too often, but do
happen. And hopefully people could be made more aware of them.
Be sure to see the entire page for the entire article.
http://prozactruth.com/conclusion.htm
" Prozac Truth Letter From the Editor "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Letter From the Editor
" I am not a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or a Psychologist. I
am a researcher who began looking into an area that I felt was
being abusive to children. It did not take long to see what was
happening."
" Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist
to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI's and their effects
on people and society? I do not think so."
snip
" This Web Site and the data that is included, is in no way
meant to belittle or imply that depression or other symptoms do
not exist. The treatment of symptoms is the issue. The same holds
true for Attention Deficit Disorder."
" These medications are being given to individuals
indiscriminately. Women are being prescribed Prozac (Sarafem) to
treat PMS without even being told it is Prozac. Parents are being
forced to allow their children to be medicated or the state will
put them in foster care. Who would think that in the United
States of America, we would be told "put your child on Ritalin or
we will take the child away from you." This is not only happening
in the poverty areas, it is happening more often in suburbia. "
Comment:
We have seen a few of these right here on the internet. It has
been pointed out a number of times that in addition to forcing
people to have their children drugged by threats of taking them
away, there are situations where the threat is made if the parent
does not take the drugs. About as strong a coercion as one might
find.
" The cases mentioned above are not rare. Actually, the abuse is
much greater. I was helping an individual get her father out of a
Psychiatric Hospital in 1999 and what I ran into was horrific."
" The man is about 80 years old and was living in a nursing home.
He complained for weeks that his skin was itching everywhere. The
nurses at the home thought he was insane. He was committed for a
48 hour observation. He called his daughter right away asking for
help. The first evening at the Psychiatric Hospital he was given
Haldol. The next day I was talking to him on the telephone when
the nurse approached him and forced him to receive a shot of
Haldol once again. The man was not angry or resistive in any way.
He explained everything that was happening to him at that moment.
The Haldol took effect instantly. His speech began to slur and
this man was so insane he told me, "I am getting sleepy now. I
guess I will go lay down and take advantage of this and catch up
on my sleep." Does that sound like the response of an insane man
to you? "
" It took 4 people at the hearing to get him out of the
hospital. The Psychiatrist were still insisting he was a threat
to himself and to others. By the time the hearing was over, the
Psychiatrist gave up their fight and began backpedaling very
quickly. We did have to sign a statement that we would not file a
law suit against the hospital or the individual Psychiatrist in
order to get him out quickly."
" What was the final outcome? We had him see a competent
Medical Doctor and it was determined, he was allergic to the
carpet fibers in his bedroom. The nursing home had just changed
all of the carpeting a few days before his complaints started.
This died December 2001. I was able to see him live the few
remaining years in comfort, enjoying the things in life he had
cherished for many years. "
snip
Comment:
We should note that many people who do not even have mental
symptoms are going to end up in nursing homes sometimes before
they die. The ability of nursing homes to try to drug people is
a concern , especially as the forced drugging laws continue to
get passed.
In one set of laws that are being proposed, the nursing home has
standing to obtain outpatient forced drugging commitment. With
that kind of a law behind them, it would make it a lot easier for
them to Haldolize people, just by being able to make threats of
involuntary commitment if they do not take the drugs. The easier
it gets to force drug or commit (or both) people, the more
vigilance will be needed to watch out for the type of thing
mentioned here in the letter to the editor.
snip
" If drugs are not the answer, what is? Greater minds than mine
have been searching for these answers for thousands of years. "
" What has worked for some people?"
Religion
Meditation
Family
A change of diet
Their own self-determinism
Time
Natural Alternatives
snip
" What to believe? If we can be our own worst enemy then we
can also be our own best friend. Start believing in yourself. If
you are currently using psychiatric medication and you want to
quit, research and do more research. Write down what plan you
will use to get yourself off the medication. It will be up to you
to make this happen. "
snip
"Sincerely,
Jim Harper"
----------------
More comments:
I think it is a good thing to provided information about
alternatives etc. That type of information seems to get
suppressed , or at least not mentioned when seeing doctors etc.
Though the stance against the drugs is much more severe than my
own opinions might be, there should some value to a variety of
sites.
Some of which might be of the Dr Breggin variety . Which could
include not only the against drugs flavor as Dr Breggin provides
but also the alternative treatments which are provided here .
(Dr Brggin is not a scientolgist btw for any that might not
know).
And those that could favor alternatives treatments but are not
against the drugs as many of the sites are such as the
mindfreedom organization which mostly about being against forced
drugging. Dr Burns could fit this category since although he has
spent a lot of time developing self managed CBT etc in his books,
he also is quite willing to use drugs.
And there are sites which are at the far extreme which not only
favor the drugs, but want to get laws passed to try to cram them
down anyone that any doctors seems to think "needs" some drugs.
There should be room for all of the different type of sites on
the internet including this site. Even if it is much harder or
the drugs and the doctors than even some of the most I'm from
Missouri, or doubting Thomas that post to the net.
And I would like it quite a bit if the doctor's list was
expanded. Be sure to keep the drug philosophy part. And would
be great if some sort of "pushiness" factor could be included so
that some who do not like pushy doctors could avoid them. I
doubt that all the pushy doctors will admit to that. So the
phrase might be more along the lines of whether or not the doctor
sees his/her role as an advisor, or as some sort of a try to make
the patient do things type of doctor.. (Empowerment vs Slavery).
The question about whether or not the doctor will help the person
off of drugs is a good one and sort of takes care of this in
part.
It could help to clarify the status of a few things such as the
vitamin advertisement. If this is all about advertising
products along with some potentially useful information, it would
be better to be up front about that. . If it is about useful
information, with some advertisement etc, that too would be worth
knowing about up front.,.
And the scientology thing could use some clearing up. Whether
or not just against drugs etc per bad experiences, or whether
or not there is a scientology component to this. . On the one
hand, facts should be facts, but on the other hand there is
something about scientology that really turns people off. And
thereby potentially deprive them of some of the good parts of the
information.
wrongabouteverything
scientology to be a member. anti-psychiatry is taught in university by
practicing psychiatrists. the research is bogus re the drugs. there is
no real evidence the drugs help. biological psychiatry is a joke as we
have no idea how the brain works and there is no evidence of a
chemical imbalance for any mental disorder. it is naive to think that
the brain is regulated by one chemical and somehow 60 per cent of the
population has this brain disease or chemical imbalance. psychiatry is
charletism.
Porthos. <p...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message news:<j7m4iuslhsg0qekcj...@4ax.com>...
Porthos.
(wrongabouteverything) wrote:
>anti-psychiatry is not scientology related. you have to disavow
>scientology to be a member. anti-psychiatry is taught in university by
>practicing psychiatrists. the research is bogus re the drugs. there is
>no real evidence the drugs help. biological psychiatry is a joke as we
>have no idea how the brain works and there is no evidence of a
>chemical imbalance for any mental disorder. it is naive to think that
>the brain is regulated by one chemical and somehow 60 per cent of the
>population has this brain disease or chemical imbalance. psychiatry is
>charletism.
>
>
Interesting how we can learn something new all the time. I was
unaware that there was such a thing as an official "anti
psychiatry" that is actually taught in the universities. Thanks
for the information. It was only recently that some articles
filled us in as to what a C/S/X er is. And even more recently
that we tried to figure out what the A of E (axis of evil) was.
And now, it is nice to know what "anti psychiatry" is.
It is a good idea. to have such as thing taught in the
Universities. I was beginning to think the Universities were
some sort of school from the dark ages, rather than something
that might be thought of as anything remotely resembling "higher
learning". When it came to mental health type of items. Whether
that be psychiatry, or whether it be MDs acting like they know
something, when they not only give away the psychotropic pills
to people who do not suspect that they do not know what they are
doing.
I can relate to what the editor of the web page wrote when he
said " It did not take long to see what was happening." .
Though the details were different, it did not take me very long
to see that there was something wrong with the system, and on
such a massive scale that it took the internet to help me see
that I was not alone in observing that.
In spite of that, I do not seem to as of yet be completely "anti
psychiatry".
More like someone that thinks the C/S/X ers are the ones that
are on the right track. And it took one heck of a lot of doing
for the Lioness etc, to help me see that even they are part of
the A of E , to the extent of being a part of the demand side of
the A of E pull . As compared to the drug companies, puppet
doctors, shrills, NAMI etc being part of the supply side of the A
of E.. Still thinking about that.
Here are a few things that I can come up with that might be
something "good" about psychiatry. Which might help at least
partially balance what I see as quite a bit of harm. Possibly
you or others could help see a way to explain how come my
perceptions of the "good part " of psychiatry might not be right
should they not be..
Something good?
o Quite a few people in anxiety - panic gp really seem to like
the SSRIs. Almost as if the drugs might actually do something
good for some of them at least?.
o At least some people in the depression gp have spoken up for
the SSRIs over the last year or so?.
o It does seem like if someone does get into big difficulty,
o When it comes to bi polar or schizophrenia, there seem to be
quite a few people who speak up for psychiatry and / or the
drugs. It seems to me that many of the people with those
symptoms are actually better off because of the doctors rather
than harmed by the doctors?
----
But some of the worst things:
The entire idea that people with those symptoms (bi polar or
schizophrenic) must be forced drugged per the forced drug law
pushing people (NAMI - TAC etc), seems to me to have the tragic
potential. Of making people take drugs that can keep them from
getting well..
The forced drugging laws are propagandized to stir up mobs of
lawmakers to pass forced drugging laws against the mentally ill,
With their emphasis on one or two murders , or the lack of
insight, the so called must be incompetent if one does not want
drugs go way beyond even just bi polar or schizophrenic
symptom people. . But can extend to anything that some doctor
thinks might "needed ": or "deteriorate" if drugs are not
forced on them. Which for most doctors is almost anything and
everything..
I have been impressed by some of the C/S/X posts such as the ones
from "s" or "gemini" etc. . Such as how in Countries without
mental health systems, people can recover from something as
serious as schizophrenic symptoms,. Even better than in
countries that have a mental health system. Or just the amazing
example of how someone that has been on the SSRIs plus other
pills etc for a decade. is finally able to get fully better
only by getting off the drugs . The drugs the doctors gave her
all that time without even thinking about it.
And of course the John Nash example is good. How he got himself
better without drugs in spite of the propaganda from those that
try to make it look like the so called "modern drugs" did it.
When he hasn't even had a drug in over 30 years. .
Most likely they will not force drug the 10 s of millions some
might like. to see happen.
But even it were just a few of the people who are made sick by
the drugs, were forced to take them, that could have the
dimensions of an "atrocity" in my book. And it most likely
would not be just a few, but significant numbers. Especially if
one were to try to count the people who might be more easily
coerced into taking the pills they don't want because of the
backing of the new laws.
And going beyond the horror of forced drugging, there is so much
emphasis on the drugs, that it can be difficult to get
alternative treatments. Especially from the hospitals. Even
though most will offer things like CBT, it can be difficult to
get that without having the drugs shoved down the throat as part
of it.. It is too bad a person can not get hospital help without
being locked up. And without being drugged so extensively as to
need to be locked up , just to keep from getting lost should
they be able to somehow manage to make it out.
So, it does seem that there is lots to be "anti psychiatry"
about. But I still have trouble going that far due to at least
some "good" which I also seem to be able to see.
Regardless of whether we might be anti psychiatry, or not anti
psychiatry, I can see a lot of good coming out of the web page
site referenced in this thread. Would like to see it continue
and expand. With or without the pills, information about
alternative treatments can be helpful. And with of without the
pills, information as to which doctors push drugs and which don't
can be useful. But especially useful for C/S/.X ers that would
like to stay off the drugs if they can, but have trouble finding
a doctor that does not push the drugs.
>
>Porthos. <p...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message news:<j7m4iuslhsg0qekcj...@4ax.com>...
>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 08:27:37 +0500, "amd500k6"
>> <no4e...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What do u think of this website?
>> >
>>
>> Not sure what to make of it? Here are some of my "first
>> impressions". May need to revise some of these impressions after
>> more study..
>>
>> The site has some valuable information that I have not seen
>> anywhere else such as the list of doctors by the area of the
>> country, and a description as to what their drug philosophy is.
>> That is something a number of people need. And if the list could
>> be added to, it could end up being terrific.
>>
>> One item to consider:
snip
>>
>> In addition to the list of doctors which I found interesting, I
>> also found the letter from the editor interesting. And would
>> like to quote some of the items in the letter from the editor.
>> Which I seem to like quite a bit because it depicts some
>> situations which hopefully do not happen too often, but do
>> happen. And hopefully people could be made more aware of them.
>>
>> Be sure to see the entire page for the entire article.
>>
>> http://prozactruth.com/conclusion.htm
>>
>> " Prozac Truth Letter From the Editor "
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> " Letter From the Editor
>>
>> " I am not a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or a Psychologist. I
>> am a researcher who began looking into an area that I felt was
>> being abusive to children. It did not take long to see what was
>> happening."
>>
>> " Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist
>> to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI's and their effects
>> on people and society? I do not think so."
>>
snip
Leaving this in because it is a great example.
I noticed an article some months back about a person that wanted
to know if they could get the nursing home to put Haldol into
their relative, to keep him from not wanting to go to the
nursing home in the first place. The answer to that post
fortunately was not recommended.. Also we might recall just a
couple months ago the 76 yr old lady who was in the hospital for
physical things, but did not want to talk to the psychiatrist
when they tried to get her examined. And got herself 10 mg of
Haldol which put her into a coma.
.
As the forced laws go into effect, it could become more easy to
pump Haldol into people, and just sort of put them into a semi
coma, without even having to bother pushing them into the
hospital
Good for you Jim, for your part in helping to get him out of
there.
>> snip
>>
>> Comment:
>>
>> We should note that many people who do not even have mental
>> symptoms are going to end up in nursing homes sometimes before
>> they die. The ability of nursing homes to try to drug people is
>> a concern , especially as the forced drugging laws continue to
>> get passed.
>>
>> In one set of laws that are being proposed, the nursing home has
>> standing to obtain outpatient forced drugging commitment. With
>> that kind of a law behind them, it would make it a lot easier for
>> them to Haldolize people, just by being able to make threats of
>> involuntary commitment if they do not take the drugs. The easier
>> it gets to force drug or commit (or both) people, the more
>> vigilance will be needed to watch out for the type of thing
>> mentioned here in the letter to the editor.
>>
snip
>>
>> "Sincerely,
>>
>> Jim Harper"
>>
>> ----------------
wrongabouteverything
disregarded it as conspiracy theory. when i went to a psych and
described very serious social anxiety, he quickly suggested schiz and
said i'd be hallucinating in a few years. I knew that i was not schiz
because i had no weird thoughts or delusions. I knew it was shyness
and lack of confidence. No matter how hard i tried to explain my
family background and why i did not fit in socially, he just ignored
me. He was not interested in my background at all. I was simply amazed
by this. At one point, he said he could not force me to take
treatment. I know if this had been the fifties I could have been
lobotomized. There is no way psych have a right to force people to
take these drugs because there is no evidence that they help. I am all
for forcing jehovah witnesses to take blood transfusions or take
insulin or whatever because these treatments work.
Porthos. <p...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message news:<b4t6iuc6tb8b3t3bm...@4ax.com>...