A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION
SHONNER
Real Timed Strategy
The Basics:
Required ingredients.
...queuing
...selection size limit
...subgrouping
...timing device
Methodology.
The number of times a player makes a selection is counted. A
"selection" is the same as resulting from the standard point, click,
and drag method of selecting structures and units. Limiting the
selection size and number of selections allowed during a game means
that each player will have to queue farther ahead in order to do more.
That means more clicking, but it also means more thinking ahead.
Subgrouping as seen in WarCraft III allows more activity during a
battle with no additional selections. Alternatively. The selection
rule can be applied to individual units. As seen in Total
Annihilation, a plan overlay can be provided which tells a player how
far ahead individual units are queued. The basic idea provides many
possibilities to explore.
Reasoning.
If a group is queued farther ahead, it wont need selecting as often,
therefore saving selections over the whole of the game. The selection
size limit combined with subgrouping helps determine the intensity of
battles since micromanaging subgroups is allowed with no additional
selections. During a battle, losing units from a selection means that
selection becomes less worthwhile. Losing all selected units in battle
naturally means losing a selection.
A "selection" is simply a single, continuous selection.
Timing example one.
A maximum number of selections, such as 180, is allowed in a given
amount of time, such as 1 hour. An hour/180 is the expected strategy
content of the game, also depending on player skill level.
Timing example two.
Game time is fixed. The winner is the player who makes the fewest
number of selections unless he (or she) dies first.
Timing example three.
A non-timed game in which each player can make selections a maximum
number of times.
--
Real Timed Strategy Gaming
http://pages.prodigy.net/logicshaping
mbe...@satx.rr.com
"A computer in every home - mine, all mine!"
--
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Cybermoose
of being in these two ng's a while) can remember the hugh cross-posting war
crap that went on between us.
Oh the memorys.
"SHONNER" <sho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d192b25$1...@news.vic.com...
Eric Byers
<Cyber...@ntlworld.com> muttered something along the lines of:
>oooooooooo Flashback!!!!!!! Im sure some of the older people (in the sense
>of being in these two ng's a while) can remember the hugh cross-posting war
>crap that went on between us.
>
>Oh the memorys.
Which was pretty redundant in itself, as Total Annihilation is nothing
but a piece of putrid crap...
:-)
--
The Oblivious Eric Byers
of the Adjective Army
Bury magnets. Swallow the rapture.
Da Wrecka
> ****** FROM LSHAPING: ******
You DO realise impersonating another person is illegal in just about every applicable
jurisdiction of law, don't you LShaping?
--
DW's PSOv2 characters
Sasami (Level 127 REDRIA FOnewearl)
Da Wrecka (Level 119 SKYLY RAmar)
Mahoro (Level 25 PURPLENUM RAcaseal)
Chibi Moon (Level 40 VIRIDIA HUnewearl)
Ramen "Clever Subname" Junkie
>
>
> Real Timed Strategy
Total Annihilation has shitty computer AI. The computer always just attacks
with it's general in the first five minutes instead of building an army then
he's crippled after I kill his only unit producer.
Eric Byers
<lame...@gamebox.netten> muttered something along the lines of:
>Total Annihilation has shitty computer AI. The computer always just attacks
>with it's general in the first five minutes instead of building an army then
>he's crippled after I kill his only unit producer.
Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
killed...
**Scorched**
news:2m0khu0gb9mum4sqe...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:20:25 GMT, "Ramen \"Clever Subname\" Junkie"
> <lame...@gamebox.netten> muttered something along the lines of:
>
> >Total Annihilation has shitty computer AI. The computer always just
attacks
> >with it's general in the first five minutes instead of building an army
then
> >he's crippled after I kill his only unit producer.
>
> Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
> killed...
>
Actually I still play that game on a LAN now and then, with a few bonus
units I got of the internet (player created ones - super huge walking tanks
etc).... it is still quite fun ;)
--
===============> http://gameworld.f2g.net <===============
"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies."
"It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether *I* win or
lose."
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
"Some people are going to leave a mark on this world, while others will
leave a bloodstain."
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic" -Stalin
Eric Byers
<scor...@hotmail.com> muttered something along the lines of:
>Actually I still play that game on a LAN now and then, with a few bonus
>units I got of the internet (player created ones - super huge walking tanks
>etc).... it is still quite fun ;)
Oh, what do you know...you're not even bright enough to appreciate
Warcraft... :-)
Steven Ung
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:00:10 +0100, "**Scorched**"
> <scor...@hotmail.com> muttered something along the lines of:
>
> >Actually I still play that game on a LAN now and then, with a few bonus
> >units I got of the internet (player created ones - super huge walking
tanks
> >etc).... it is still quite fun ;)
>
> Oh, what do you know...you're not even bright enough to appreciate
> Warcraft... :-)
I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will find
Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
--
Steven Ung, ICQ# : 65203722 Nick : Nuubie
_________________________________________________________________
Get paid to be Online. Join Now ;-)
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Ramen "Clever Subname" Junkie
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:20:25 GMT, "Ramen \"Clever Subname\" Junkie"
> <lame...@gamebox.netten> muttered something along the lines of:
>
> >Total Annihilation has shitty computer AI. The computer always just
attacks
> >with it's general in the first five minutes instead of building an army
then
> >he's crippled after I kill his only unit producer.
>
> Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
> killed...
Yeah. Kind of annoying if he takes out your leader too.
Marco
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:37:36 +0800, "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my>
> wrote:
>
>> I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will
>> find Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
>
> To a certain extent, perhaps. But microing has been made a lot more
> convenient by using subgroups, tab to move between groups, etc. You
> also have far fewer units to handle.
>
> Overall, I don't think it is more diffcult than SC. It certainly is
> more convenient!
I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in an
RTS. So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units. It's fairly
difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC. Well, huge
numbers of people think Britney Spears and Madonna are great too - so
maybe not so hard to understand?
--
Marco
Cognitive dissonance due to reality conflicting with this post
may cause your brain to ache.
Da Wrecka
news:UXtS8.2956$pJ3.12...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
> > killed...
>
> Yeah. Kind of annoying if he takes out your leader too.
That's why you set up a small shedload of Berthas/Intimidators ASAP, to blast him out
of existence before he gets close enough
Sean Keenan
"Marco" <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns923A4DAF91CF0m...@205.237.233.50...
> Moen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:37:36 +0800, "Steven Ung"
<ste...@gtekmy.po.my>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will
> >> find Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
> >
> > To a certain extent, perhaps. But microing has been made a lot more
> > convenient by using subgroups, tab to move between groups, etc. You
> > also have far fewer units to handle.
> >
> > Overall, I don't think it is more diffcult than SC. It certainly is
> > more convenient!
>
> I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in
an
> RTS. So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement
unneccesarily.
The only thing wrong with StarCraft's interface is the 12 unit limit in
groups. Besides that selection limit, I'd say SC's IF is pretty
streamlined and easy to use. Err, rather, one more thing--> Customizable
keys, or simple default spell keys (Psi storm is spell A--> hit v for
spell A for all units.).
> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units. It's
fairly
> difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC.
If you can't understand the interface, doubtless you cannot comprehend
the greeatness.
Ramen "Clever Subname" Junkie
news:ocDS8.9973$Hl2.73...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> "Ramen "Clever Subname" Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.netten> wrote in
message
> news:UXtS8.2956$pJ3.12...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
> > > killed...
> >
> > Yeah. Kind of annoying if he takes out your leader too.
>
> That's why you set up a small shedload of Berthas/Intimidators ASAP, to
blast him out
> of existence before he gets close enough
It still makes the game pointlessly lame. I am playing for a battle not
some idiot getting his only unit killed 5 minutes into the game.
Marco
> The only thing wrong with StarCraft's interface is the 12 unit limit in
> groups. Besides that selection limit, I'd say SC's IF is pretty
> streamlined and easy to use. Err, rather, one more thing--> Customizable
> keys, or simple default spell keys (Psi storm is spell A--> hit v for
> spell A for all units.).
Well, that and also that you cannot queue unit producing. I find this
rather silly that every 15 seconds I must run around to all my factories
and queue up another 5 marines. Not to mention that constructors can NEVER
accept more than ONE order at a time.
Sean Keenan
> Sean Keenan wrote:
>
> > The only thing wrong with StarCraft's interface is the 12 unit limit
in
> > groups. Besides that selection limit, I'd say SC's IF is pretty
> > streamlined and easy to use. Err, rather, one more thing-->
Customizable
> > keys, or simple default spell keys (Psi storm is spell A--> hit v
for
> > spell A for all units.).
>
> Well, that and also that you cannot queue unit producing. I find this
> rather silly that every 15 seconds I must run around to all my
factories
> and queue up another 5 marines. Not to mention that constructors can
NEVER
> accept more than ONE order at a time.
15 seconds? Quit playing turbo if you don't have the micro.
StarCraft is missionred with different graphics.
They are a bit limiting, but hey, fuck you. =)
StormTrooper
> Moen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:37:36 +0800, "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will
> >> find Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
> >
> > To a certain extent, perhaps. But microing has been made a lot more
> > convenient by using subgroups, tab to move between groups, etc. You
> > also have far fewer units to handle.
> >
> > Overall, I don't think it is more diffcult than SC. It certainly is
> > more convenient!
>
> I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in an
> RTS. So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units.
It's called having SKILL
StormTrooper
> Sean Keenan wrote:
>
> > The only thing wrong with StarCraft's interface is the 12 unit limit in
> > groups. Besides that selection limit, I'd say SC's IF is pretty
> > streamlined and easy to use. Err, rather, one more thing--> Customizable
> > keys, or simple default spell keys (Psi storm is spell A--> hit v for
> > spell A for all units.).
>
> Well, that and also that you cannot queue unit producing. I find this
> rather silly that every 15 seconds I must run around to all my factories
> and queue up another 5 marines. Not to mention that constructors can
NEVER
> accept more than ONE order at a time.
Maybe the game designers are relying on the fact that the players will be
able to do more than one thing at a time... Once again, this revolves around
one aspect of the skill required to play bw. Its not easy, that's part of
the challenge.
Marco
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:38:11 GMT, Marco <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in
>> an RTS.
>
> Strange, then, that it became so popular. It must be because it
> requires some work to master properly.
Same can be said of almost any game.
>> So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
>
> Perhaps many like this.
Well maybe they have never played another good RTS which allows more
options to ease micromanagement - so they don't know what they're
missing? What reason could there be to only allow 5 marines to be queued
at once? How does this increase the strategic content of the game? It
just adds unneccesary micromanagement that is pointless. Another example
is that constuctors can only accept ONE order at a time. How does this
make the game more enjoyable?
>> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
>> makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units. It's
>> fairly difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC.
>
> Perhaps because it was (and perhaps still is) unique and fresh, and
> brought something new to the RTS world, such as three vastly different
> races, and they are even balanced well. Also, the true value is when
> you always learn something new or find new tricks, and you feel that
> you are starting to master the game.
Again - the same thing applies to most other games. Needless
micromanagement doesn't increase this does it? It just clouds your mind
with unneccesary mouseclicks when that time could be spent engineering a
more brilliant attack. If you were very expert at TA you would be able
to understand the type of stategic attack and unit control that is
possible in a game where you don't have to spend 75% of your time queuing
up unit producers and construction units.
> Perhaps other games just don't cut it. Perhaps they aren't as
> satisfying in the long run.
Well, I'm not saying the game is totally horrible. I played it quite a
lot and enjoyed it. But after playing several other RTS's it was
difficult to return to SC because of so many limitations in the
interface that border on absurd. I guess the thing which irritated me
is that the developers have stated that they designed it this way on
purpose to help prevent rushing and "massing" large attacks. Seems to
me like a very "newbie" type attitude - "We don't like rushers, and
don't know how to defend against rushes, so we will design our interface
to make the player have to click his mouse 50 extra times to rush."???
Total Annihilation also has several flaws. Just because I love the game
doesn't mean I'm gonna put on rose colored glasses and defend these flaws
mindlessly.
If you love the game, that's great. Everyone has a different view on
what makes this type of game exciting.
--
Marco (Wrath-Mutilator)
Marco
>> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
>> makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units. It's
>> fairly difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC.
>
> If you can't understand the interface, doubtless you cannot comprehend
> the greeatness.
OK, so maybe you can explain to me how I can set a barracks to make 500
marines so I don't have to keep going back to it every 30 seconds? Also
can you explain the line of thinking behind this limitation?
Also, since I can not comprehend the complex interface, maybe you will
explain how I can queue a constructor to make several structures in a row
without having to keep checking back on it to see when it's done, and
THEN telling it to make the next structure?
If you had played other RTS games I think you would understand why a
person could consider this cumbersome and unneccesary? It doesn't add
anything to the game. In fact, IMO it decreases the possibilities in SC
because it tends to make the game overly micromanagement intensive.
Total Annihilation also requires a tremendous amount of micro, but the
strategies that can be executed by a top player are far more complicated
than they are in SC because most needless (boring) micro has been reduced
to a minumum - allowing huge brilliant attacks of several hundred units
at once by air/sea/land simultaneously.
--
Marco (Wrath-Mutilator)
Marco
> Maybe the game designers are relying on the fact that the players will
> be able to do more than one thing at a time... Once again, this
> revolves around one aspect of the skill required to play bw. Its not
> easy, that's part of the challenge.
I'm not new to RTS, and one of the top TA players online. I can assure you
that I am able to handle a lot of micro. It's just the pointlessness of
some of the micro in SC that I'm opposed to.
--
Marco (Wrath-Mutilator)
Marco
> It's called having SKILL
Well if you have Total Annihilation installed I'd be happy to give you a
demonstration of skill and show you what is possible in the game.
--
Marco (Wrath-Mutilator)
Sean Keenan
> Moen wrote:
> >> So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
Oh no. Terror we have to click. Let's make a game where you just watch
an AI play for you! Oh, no! It must start running when you boot up your
computer! Clicking the icon is too much micromanagement for the users!
> >> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> >> makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units. It's
> >> fairly difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC.
> >
> > Perhaps because it was (and perhaps still is) unique and fresh, and
> > brought something new to the RTS world, such as three vastly
different
> > races, and they are even balanced well. Also, the true value is when
> > you always learn something new or find new tricks, and you feel that
> > you are starting to master the game.
>
> Again - the same thing applies to most other games. Needless
> micromanagement doesn't increase this does it? It just clouds your
mind
> with unneccesary mouseclicks when that time could be spent engineering
a
> more brilliant attack.
If you need time engineering a more brilliant attack, you aren't gosu at
SC, and never will be. SC is doing, not thinking.
If you were very expert at TA you would be able
> to understand the type of stategic attack and unit control that is
> possible in a game where you don't have to spend 75% of your time
queuing
> up unit producers and construction units.
1MMM2MMM3MMM4MMM5MMM6CCC
Not that hard. Don't be a noub and set it to EHL and they'll register
perfectly fine.
> I guess the thing which irritated me
> is that the developers have stated that they designed it this way on
> purpose to help prevent rushing and "massing" large attacks. Seems to
> me like a very "newbie" type attitude - "We don't like rushers, and
> don't know how to defend against rushes,
StarCraft is very rush oriented. You're thinking the BGH $$$ NR 25
players developed the game. They didn't.
so we will design our interface
> to make the player have to click his mouse 50 extra times to rush."???
7A*click*8A*click*9A*click*0A*click* Well, you have 48 hydras in your
ass now. TYVM.
> Total Annihilation also has several flaws.
Lack of interesting gameplay first and foremost.
> If you love the game, that's great. Everyone has a different view on
> what makes this type of game exciting.
And sadly your views are wrong.
Sean Keenan
> Sean Keenan wrote:
>
> >> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> >> makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units. It's
> >> fairly difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC.
> >
> > If you can't understand the interface, doubtless you cannot
comprehend
> > the greeatness.
>
> OK, so maybe you can explain to me how I can set a barracks to make
500
> marines so I don't have to keep going back to it every 30 seconds?
Also
> can you explain the line of thinking behind this limitation?
I thought it was 15 seconds. ;-)
So? Developers' shortcoming. It limits lag ;-)
> Also, since I can not comprehend the complex interface, maybe you will
> explain how I can queue a constructor to make several structures in a
row
> without having to keep checking back on it to see when it's done, and
> THEN telling it to make the next structure?
Play Protoss, dumbass. Actually PLAY the games before you try to trash
them.
Do you want the drone to pop out after your new hatchery is complete and
then build 8 sunken colonies? Idiot.
> If you had played other RTS games I think you would understand why a
> person could consider this cumbersome and unneccesary? It doesn't add
> anything to the game. In fact, IMO it decreases the possibilities in
SC
> because it tends to make the game overly micromanagement intensive.
Sure, I've played plenty of games with better interfaces. B&W, AoE/AoE2,
a few others. But wow. It makes it a bit easier to play and all, sure.
But SC's interface doesn't really detract from the game that much. Why?
You're clicking like a mad bastard anyways. The whole fucking game is
built around clicking madly and microing your templar to zap the right
units.
This game has the damn zealot dance, for fucks sake. And you complain
about building barracks.
> Total Annihilation also requires a tremendous amount of micro, but the
> strategies that can be executed by a top player are far more
complicated
> than they are in SC because most needless (boring) micro has been
reduced
> to a minumum - allowing huge brilliant attacks of several hundred
units
> at once by air/sea/land simultaneously.
Err, the level of brilliance in "Let's send the Philadelphia Zoo at
them!" is quite low. Especially compared to some of the stuff in some
high level replays.
Sean Keenan
> StormTrooper wrote:
>
> > Maybe the game designers are relying on the fact that the players
will
> > be able to do more than one thing at a time... Once again, this
> > revolves around one aspect of the skill required to play bw. Its not
> > easy, that's part of the challenge.
>
> I'm not new to RTS, and one of the top TA players online.
*gigglehahaha*ahahahaha*gilggel*
Marco
> Err, the level of brilliance in "Let's send the Philadelphia Zoo at
> them!" is quite low. Especially compared to some of the stuff in some
> high level replays.
I played SC quite a lot, watched quite a few tourney recordings. Fairly
boring game compared to TA honestly.
At least I have SOME understanding of SC in order to formulate some type of
opinion? Obviously you've never even played TA, yet you are an expert. In
fact I highly doubt you've played *any* quality RTS - you just jumped on
the Blizzard bandwagon like all the other RTS newbs.
Marco
> Play Protoss, dumbass. Actually PLAY the games before you try to trash
> them.
> Do you want the drone to pop out after your new hatchery is complete and
> then build 8 sunken colonies? Idiot.
Hmm, why so hostile? Feeling inadequate because of your genitals that
never quite matured to adult size? Not capable of sustaining an argument
without resorting to personal attack? Typical 12 yr old, what could I
expect?
By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal. Not
exactly what I meant.
--
Marco
Christopher Childs
> StormTrooper wrote:
>
> > Maybe the game designers are relying on the fact that the players will
> > be able to do more than one thing at a time... Once again, this
> > revolves around one aspect of the skill required to play bw. Its not
> > easy, that's part of the challenge.
>
> I'm not new to RTS, and one of the top TA players online. I can assure
you
> that I am able to handle a lot of micro. It's just the pointlessness of
> some of the micro in SC that I'm opposed to.
What you're essentially looking for is War3, which many people vehemently
oppose as a newbified Starcraft with the tedious parts of base management
and combat eased.
Christopher Childs
"Sean Keenan" <x4ya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:affktm$e1sad$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
> > explain how I can queue a constructor to make several structures in a
> row
> > without having to keep checking back on it to see when it's done, and
> > THEN telling it to make the next structure?
>
> Play Protoss, dumbass. Actually PLAY the games before you try to trash
> them.
> Do you want the drone to pop out after your new hatchery is complete and
> then build 8 sunken colonies? Idiot.
>
Watch it. Your reading comprehension seems to have dropped. What he wants
is basically waypointing for constructing buildings. Y'know, hold down
shift and issue another order to set another waypoint -- except you can't do
that in Starcraft when making things.
I'd like to see the interface improved myself. I don't like the mad
clicking -- it starts to hurt after a while.
Christopher Childs
"StormTrooper" <st...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:BDHS8.5086$ZM3.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "Marco" <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns923A4DAF91CF0m...@205.237.233.50...
> > Moen wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:37:36 +0800, "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will
> > >> find Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
> > >
> > > To a certain extent, perhaps. But microing has been made a lot more
> > > convenient by using subgroups, tab to move between groups, etc. You
> > > also have far fewer units to handle.
> > >
> > > Overall, I don't think it is more diffcult than SC. It certainly is
> > > more convenient!
> >
> > I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in an
> > RTS. So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
> > Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> > makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units.
>
> It's called having SKILL
Skill in Starcraft is mastering how well you can use a contorted interface
that merely requires fast reflexes and constant babysitting. After playing
it for so long, it's starting to piss me off about how much work you need to
do to accomplish things in it.
I prefer the War3 interface to the SC one. It's not quite what Marco wants
as it's missing several things to ease mass production -- then again, that's
not the game's focus. However, grouping buildings is there and smarter
rallying to keep reinforcements up is also there. Now only if the pace
could be quickened a bit...
Zealot The Crazy Vous
27 Jun 2002 19:38:03 GMT, when Marco <marc...@hotmail.com>, started
attacking me out of nowhere. After I got a detector and saw he was a
DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I
said::
>By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
>another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal. Not
>exactly what I meant.
Hold shift...
--
DOH!
=)
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Zealot the Crazy Vous
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Christopher Childs
"Zealot The Crazy Vous" <ktwils...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:fqrmhuk9qvuomj4ds...@4ax.com...
> Ok, so I was shredding some zerglings in alt.games.starcraft on Thu,
> 27 Jun 2002 19:38:03 GMT, when Marco <marc...@hotmail.com>, started
> attacking me out of nowhere. After I got a detector and saw he was a
> DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I
> said::
> >By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
> >another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal.
Not
> >exactly what I meant.
>
> Hold shift...
>
Doesn't work for constructing buildings.
Zealot The Crazy Vous
<chr...@dubba.net>, started attacking me out of nowhere. After I got
a detector and saw he was a DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys from
TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I said::
>is basically waypointing for constructing buildings. Y'know, hold down
>shift and issue another order to set another waypoint -- except you can't do
>that in Starcraft when making things.
Never tried, never needed to... Kindof impossible with Zerg anyway.
>I'd like to see the interface improved myself. I don't like the mad
>clicking -- it starts to hurt after a while.
Mad clicking is fun :)
but I agree :/
Zealot The Crazy Vous
<chr...@dubba.net>, started attacking me out of nowhere. After I got
a detector and saw he was a DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys from
TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I said::
>that merely requires fast reflexes and constant babysitting. After playing
>it for so long, it's starting to piss me off about how much work you need to
>do to accomplish things in it.
>
>I prefer the War3 interface to the SC one. It's not quite what Marco wants
>as it's missing several things to ease mass production -- then again, that's
>not the game's focus. However, grouping buildings is there and smarter
>rallying to keep reinforcements up is also there. Now only if the pace
>could be quickened a bit...
It's still faster than Starcraft, you don't start out building tons of
peons to send to mine at the beginning.
This whole discussion is getting a little too on-topic, if ya know
what I mean ;)
Zealot The Crazy Vous
<chr...@dubba.net>, started attacking me out of nowhere. After I got
a detector and saw he was a DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys from
TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I said::
>Doesn't work for constructing buildings.
So.
:P
**Scorched**
> StormTrooper wrote:
>
> > Maybe the game designers are relying on the fact that the players will
> > be able to do more than one thing at a time... Once again, this
> > revolves around one aspect of the skill required to play bw. Its not
> > easy, that's part of the challenge.
>
> I'm not new to RTS, and one of the top TA players online. I can assure
you
> that I am able to handle a lot of micro. It's just the pointlessness of
> some of the micro in SC that I'm opposed to.
>
Hey I thought Boneyards (internet TA servers) shut down though...? :-/
--
===============> http://gameworld.f2g.net <===============
"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies."
"It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether *I* win or
lose."
"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
"Some people are going to leave a mark on this world, while others will
leave a bloodstain."
"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic" -Stalin
**Scorched**
news:01KS8.33915$cE5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
RSI sucks, trust me :(....
micromanagement is good, but it shouldn't be overdone by making it needed
when it does not actually have to be around.... The whole thing with only
being able to select 12 units max. at once for instance, well it is
completely unnecessary... micromanagement is good, but why have it when it
does really not need to be there?
*waits for some idiot to start saying I can't micro again without having
ever played me when I used to play RTSs*
**Scorched**
> StormTrooper wrote:
>
> > It's called having SKILL
>
> Well if you have Total Annihilation installed I'd be happy to give you a
> demonstration of skill and show you what is possible in the game.
>
What? And prove that he doesn't have any? I doubt he would be prepared to
show how useless he probably is...
**Scorched**
news:ocDS8.9973$Hl2.73...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> "Ramen "Clever Subname" Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.netten> wrote in
message
> news:UXtS8.2956$pJ3.12...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
> > > killed...
> >
> > Yeah. Kind of annoying if he takes out your leader too.
>
> That's why you set up a small shedload of Berthas/Intimidators ASAP, to
blast him out
> of existence before he gets close enough
>
Since when could either of those hit a moving target effectively? ;)
Aircraft is the key to stopping the commander attacking your base - you can
construct an aircraft thing within the first few minutes, then build a load
of fighters/bombers to kill the commander - even these level 1 aircraft can
do it easily, especially if you speed up the production of these aircraft
with your commander...
That's probably the best way to deal with it, I think ;)
Sean Keenan
> Sean Keenan wrote:
>
> > Err, the level of brilliance in "Let's send the Philadelphia Zoo at
> > them!" is quite low. Especially compared to some of the stuff in
some
> > high level replays.
>
> I played SC quite a lot, watched quite a few tourney recordings.
Fairly
> boring game compared to TA honestly.
>
> At least I have SOME understanding of SC in order to formulate some
type of
> opinion? Obviously you've never even played TA,
So I must spout praises of TA as proof I have played it?
yet you are an expert. In
> fact I highly doubt you've played *any* quality RTS - you just jumped
on
> the Blizzard bandwagon like all the other RTS newbs.
On what basis do you state this assumption?
StarCraft is a great game and all, but there are better games for
strategic value. TA isn't one of them.
Sean Keenan
> Sean Keenan wrote:
>
> > Play Protoss, dumbass. Actually PLAY the games before you try to
trash
> > them.
> > Do you want the drone to pop out after your new hatchery is complete
and
> > then build 8 sunken colonies? Idiot.
>
> Hmm, why so hostile? Feeling inadequate because of your genitals that
> never quite matured to adult size? Not capable of sustaining an
argument
> without resorting to personal attack? Typical 12 yr old, what could I
> expect?
It's not a personal attack. It's an observation. You're asking for
things that can be done or would be stupid. And you of course resort to
the "My dad can beat up your dad!" and try to act high and mighty?
> By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
> another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal.
Not
> exactly what I meant.
Phrase your sentences better, in that case.
Sean Keenan
"Christopher Childs" <chr...@dubba.net> wrote in message
news:01KS8.33915$cE5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
I knew exactly what he intended. AoE2 does it perfectly. I just like
nitpicking to subtly troll.
> I'd like to see the interface improved myself. I don't like the mad
> clicking -- it starts to hurt after a while.
Bah, wuss.
Christopher Childs
>
> I knew exactly what he intended. AoE2 does it perfectly. I just like
> nitpicking to subtly troll.
I think you're going about it in the wrong manner then.
Steven Ung
news:imnlhuo4t8jo8bh89...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:37:36 +0800, "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will find
> > Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
>
> To a certain extent, perhaps. But microing has been made a lot more
> convenient by using subgroups, tab to move between groups, etc. You also
> have far fewer units to handle.
>
> Overall, I don't think it is more diffcult than SC. It certainly is more
> convenient!
Convenient, yes. But having more heroes in the game would mean that you'll
need to take care of them, and use their spell abilites. That is where the
microing part comes.
--
Steven Ung, ICQ# : 65203722 Nick : Nuubie
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Steven Ung
> Moen wrote:
>
> I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in an
> RTS. So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
> Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> difficut for me to understand why so many people play SC. Well, huge
> numbers of people think Britney Spears and Madonna are great too - so
> maybe not so hard to understand?
>
I think the only game that can beat StarCraft popularity is Pacman. :p
Steven Ung
> Moen wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:38:11 GMT, Marco <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in
> >> an RTS.
> >
> > requires some work to master properly.
>
> Same can be said of almost any game.
>
> >> So cumbersome and requiring so much micromanagement unneccesarily.
> >
>
> Well maybe they have never played another good RTS which allows more
> options to ease micromanagement - so they don't know what they're
> missing?
> What reason could there be to only allow 5 marines to be queued
> at once? How does this increase the strategic content of the game?
One marine cost 50m, queing 5 will mean that you've spend 250m per barrack.
Multiply that with 3 barrack, and you've unnecessarily spend an extra 600
for those men on queue. Wouldn't it be better to spend that extra cost on
getting another barrack or starting up on another base? The ability to queue
too many units in a given structure doesn't necessarily mean that you should
do it.
> It just adds unneccesary micromanagement that is pointless. Another
example
> is that constuctors can only accept ONE order at a time. How does this
> make the game more enjoyable?
To order the SCV to gather gas/mineral after it had build a supply: Select
the SCV, order him to build a supply, on his way to build, hold down the
shift key and right click on the mineral/gas. Protoss peons OTOH, can warp
in buildings and go straight to work.
<snip>
Steven Ung
> Sean Keenan wrote:
>
> > The only thing wrong with StarCraft's interface is the 12 unit limit in
> > groups. Besides that selection limit, I'd say SC's IF is pretty
> > streamlined and easy to use. Err, rather, one more thing--> Customizable
> > keys, or simple default spell keys (Psi storm is spell A--> hit v for
> > spell A for all units.).
>
> Well, that and also that you cannot queue unit producing.
You can queue, but only limited to 5, which brings me to my previous post on
the ability to queue too many units. It just tends to bring out the newbies
in us. People would think that given the ability to queue unlimited unit
production would make it a great game, but have it ever occured to you that
it would be better off to spend that cash on other issues? That is why SC is
different from the rest. It makes you 'pay' great attention on the game.
> I find this rather silly that every 15 seconds I must run around to all
my factories
> and queue up another 5 marines.
See my post on this. And you're dead wrong on this.
> Not to mention that constructors can NEVER accept more than ONE order at
a time.
See my post on this. And you're dead wrong on this.
Steven Ung
>
<snip> >
> > Well, that and also that you cannot queue unit producing. I find this
> > rather silly that every 15 seconds I must run around to all my
> factories
> NEVER
> > accept more than ONE order at a time.
>
> StarCraft is missionred with different graphics.
> They are a bit limiting, but hey, fuck you. =)
Oh.. come on. We're just discussing here. No need for such thing, IMO.
Steven Ung
> StormTrooper wrote:
>
> > It's called having SKILL
>
> Well if you have Total Annihilation installed I'd be happy to give you a
> demonstration of skill and show you what is possible in the game.
That doesn't really prove anything. It merely proves that you've spend more
hours in TA than SC. I could say the same to you too, right?
To make it fair, the person who takes up this challenge should play 3 games
of TA, and 3 games of SC. The number of games won would ideally determine
the victor. But eventually that does not prove that TA is better than SC or
vice versa. It may be because you're a better or speedier (?) player.
Too bad I don't have TA. Anyone have one? :p
SHONNER
news:imnlhuo4t8jo8bh89...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:37:36 +0800, "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my>
> wrote:
>
> > I agree. Anyone who is not good with microing / fast enough, will find
> > Multiplayer WarCraft III extremely difficult to play.
>
> To a certain extent, perhaps. But microing has been made a lot more
> convenient by using subgroups, tab to move between groups, etc. You also
> have far fewer units to handle.
Which RTS out there has the least amount of micromanagement in it?
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
Huh? Who uses Boneyards anymore?
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Steven Ung
news:3d1bb...@news.vic.com...
Seriously, Battle Realms, but not very popular game. I wonder why.
SHONNER
"Sean Keenan" <x4ya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:affkht$e4lnd$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
> SC is doing, not thinking.
Sounds like an inane game.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
> 15 seconds? Quit playing turbo if you don't have the micro.
> StarCraft is missionred with different graphics.
> They are a bit limiting, but hey, fuck you. =)
Marco, this is the best example of the typical SC player's mindset you will
find here. As you'll find, they can't be reasoned with.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
> Maybe the game designers are relying on the fact that the players will be
> able to do more than one thing at a time... Once again, this revolves
around
> one aspect of the skill required to play bw. Its not easy, that's part of
> the challenge.
Yes... Let's make the game's GUI a pain in the ass to use to make the game
harder to play. SC'ers find strategy in their use of the GUI rather than in
the use of what units they might have.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Eric Byers
muttered something along the lines of:
>Which RTS out there has the least amount of micromanagement in it?
If you hate micro, play Risk...
--
The Oblivious Eric Byers
of the Adjective Army
Bury magnets. Swallow the rapture.
Sean Keenan
Teach me oh great master.
SHONNER
news:afgbs9$e3heu$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> You can queue, but only limited to 5
You make it sound so much better when you explain it that way.
>, which brings me to my previous post on
> the ability to queue too many units. It just tends to bring out the
newbies
> in us. People would think that given the ability to queue unlimited unit
> production would make it a great game
Woah, Dude. No one here said anything about unlimited unit production.
>, but have it ever occured to you that
> it would be better off to spend that cash on other issues?
Yes. But TA lets you build other better stuff which is needed while your
factories are queued up as well. And just because I told my Aircraft Plant
to build 50 Bombers, it doesn't mean that they will all get built. But in
the mean time, I don't have to check up on it 10 times to get them all
built. And this is just one Aircraft Plant along with my Vehicle Plants,
Infantry Labs, nukes, anti-nukes, anti-air, artillery, Fusion Plants, Mining
rigs, etc. Meanwhile, I'm on the other end of the 32 x 32 screen-wide map
commanding my airforce and naval units before I send in the ground invasion
on the enemy whose obviously losing at this point.
> That is why SC is
> different from the rest. It makes you 'pay' great attention on the game.
Ok. Nevermind what I just said then. Come to think of it, I had no idea I
was winning the game until it ended and it said I won. I should focus more
on the game next time. Good god, what people will say about playing SC so
it makes them feel good inside about their $9 choice of purchase. Hell,
I've thrown away games better than SC.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
> 500
> > marines so I don't have to keep going back to it every 30 seconds?
> Also
> > can you explain the line of thinking behind this limitation?
>
> I thought it was 15 seconds. ;-)
> So? Developers' shortcoming. It limits lag ;-)
A typical liberal. Dodges rather than answers a simple question.
> Play Protoss, dumbass. Actually PLAY the games before you try to trash
> them.
> Do you want the drone to pop out after your new hatchery is complete and
> then build 8 sunken colonies? Idiot.
The attitude all 9-11 generation kids have. It comes from a lack of family
unity and being raised by only one parent who themself does not take any
responsibilty and is always blaming others for their deficiencies.
> Sure, I've played plenty of games with better interfaces. B&W, AoE/AoE2,
> a few others. But wow. It makes it a bit easier to play and all, sure.
> But SC's interface doesn't really detract from the game that much. Why?
Because the GUI is the game? You're looking more at the HUD than you are
the WAR.
> You're clicking like a mad bastard anyways. The whole fucking game is
> built around clicking madly and microing your templar to zap the right
> units.
What? Is that the best unit you got? Sounds pretty lame. So the strategy
of SC is all in how good you are at playing Missile Command. <Yawn>
> This game has the damn zealot dance, for fucks sake. And you complain
> about building barracks.
Every great force needs a great foundation to build on. Otherwise, it's
just all you playing hokey-pokey in a three-player arcade game. But
everyone else in the game is too, so it's all "balanced".
> Err, the level of brilliance in "Let's send the Philadelphia Zoo at
> them!" is quite low. Especially compared to some of the stuff in some
> high level replays.
The brilliance was only in building it, not fighting with it. In TA, there
is plenty of room to have great builders/great fighters, great builders/lame
fighters, lame/builders, great fighters, lame builders/lame fighters. SC
has the same range. Only it's very tight. Because it's arcade-style rather
than TOTAL ANNIHILATION with its full-scale warfare and real-time critical
planning and utilization of its many more "kinds" of units to kill or be
killed with. Basically, it's real-rime warfare for grown-ups.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Steven Ung
I beg to differ. You're judging us wrongly. I'm not proud and condemn on
what he had said. I would rather put it as a typical 'kid' without a
mindset. :-)
SHONNER
> StarCraft is a great game and all, but there are better games for
> strategic value. TA isn't one of them.
Ok. Name a better game for strategic value than SC.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
news:fqrmhuk9qvuomj4ds...@4ax.com...
> >By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
> >another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal.
Not
> >exactly what I meant.
>
>
> --
> DOH!
> =)
> PA Official Web Site webmaster
And SC's red-headed stepchild tries to write FART on the sidewalk with a
brand new piece of chalk his mom stole from nightschool.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Steven Ung
> "Zealot The Crazy Vous" <ktwils...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:fqrmhuk9qvuomj4ds...@4ax.com...
> > >By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
> > >another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal.
> Not
> > >exactly what I meant.
> >
> > Hold shift...
>
> brand new piece of chalk his mom stole from nightschool.
Oh.. come on. Don't be like Sean Keenan. You condemn his post but you do the
same?
SHONNER
> > Hmm, why so hostile? Feeling inadequate because of your genitals that
> > never quite matured to adult size? Not capable of sustaining an
> argument
> > without resorting to personal attack? Typical 12 yr old, what could I
> > expect?
>
> It's not a personal attack. It's an observation.
Dodging the question (unsuccessfully). Why can't you take responsibilty and
admit it.
> You're asking for
> things that can be done or would be stupid. And you of course resort to
> the "My dad can beat up your dad!" and try to act high and mighty?
Just tell us you're either not going to answer the question and say "I don't
know?"
> > By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
> > another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal.
> Not
> > exactly what I meant.
>
> Phrase your sentences better, in that case.
Now that you understand the question, give us your answer. Why dodge it
still?
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
>
>
SHONNER
news:afft12$5ok$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> *waits for some idiot to start saying I can't micro again without having
> ever played me when I used to play RTSs*
You can expect much worse from the SC group.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
> > I'd like to see the interface improved myself. I don't like the mad
> > clicking -- it starts to hurt after a while.
>
> Bah, wuss.
See! The SC'ers eat their own kind.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
> > I must say that StarCraft has the worst interface I have ever seen in an
> > Especially if you are used to Total Annihilation's interface which
> > makes it very easy to control/queue huge numbers of units.
>
Hitler's army required micromanagement. I guess he didn't have SKILL?
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Sean Keenan
> "SHONNER" <sho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3d1bc...@news.vic.com...
> > "Zealot The Crazy Vous" <ktwils...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:fqrmhuk9qvuomj4ds...@4ax.com...
> > > >By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only
START
> > > >another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big
deal.
> > Not
> > > >exactly what I meant.
> > >
> > > Hold shift...
> >
> > And SC's red-headed stepchild tries to write FART on the sidewalk
with a
> > brand new piece of chalk his mom stole from nightschool.
>
> Oh.. come on. Don't be like Sean Keenan.
Accept no imitations.
SHONNER
> What? And prove that he doesn't have any? I doubt he would be prepared to
> show how useless he probably is...
"Where's the convoluted GUI on this thing? The war is hurting my eyes!
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Sean Keenan
> news:affua9$dslie$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
> > > Hmm, why so hostile? Feeling inadequate because of your genitals
that
> > > never quite matured to adult size? Not capable of sustaining an
> > argument
> > > without resorting to personal attack? Typical 12 yr old, what
could I
> > > expect?
> >
> > It's not a personal attack. It's an observation.
>
> Dodging the question (unsuccessfully). Why can't you take
responsibilty and
> admit it.
Admit what? That my penis (Lack of basis for the assumption that I am in
possession of one.) is small (Complete lack of basis-> Posting never
contributed to the size of genitalia.)?
And I already answered his "I want to queue building orders and order
units to do stuff as soon as they finish building."
Another thing that would be useful would be the "Focus on last event"
button.
> > You're asking for
> > things that can be done or would be stupid. And you of course resort
to
> > the "My dad can beat up your dad!" and try to act high and mighty?
>
> Just tell us you're either not going to answer the question and say "I
don't
> know?"
I answered his original questions, and have no interest in answering
personal questions asked by people I hardly know, and have little
interest in knowing from what I've seen of them.
> > > By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only
START
> > > another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big
deal.
> > Not
> > > exactly what I meant.
> >
> > Phrase your sentences better, in that case.
>
> Now that you understand the question, give us your answer. Why dodge
it
> still?
Because I can't reply in the middle of your own fucking post?
SHONNER
> "Marco" <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns923A8E582D312m...@205.237.233.52...
> > StormTrooper wrote:
> >
> > > It's called having SKILL
> >
> > Well if you have Total Annihilation installed I'd be happy to give you a
> > demonstration of skill and show you what is possible in the game.
>
> That doesn't really prove anything. It merely proves that you've spend
more
> hours in TA than SC. I could say the same to you too, right?
It would hurt us to use your interface. But it can be done. You on the
other hand would have to get used to the war. But you're not even old
enough to be playing "T"een rated games.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Steven Ung
> news:afgbs9$e3heu$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> > You can queue, but only limited to 5
>
> You make it sound so much better when you explain it that way.
I was merely stating the obvious. No other intention.
> >, which brings me to my previous post on
> > the ability to queue too many units. It just tends to bring out the
> newbies
> > in us. People would think that given the ability to queue unlimited unit
> > production would make it a great game
>
> Woah, Dude. No one here said anything about unlimited unit production.
What is the limit for queing up units in TA?
I do agree that SC requires you to 'click' like crazy, but that doesn't mean
that it is not a good game. I'm sure the same can be said about TA. SC has
been around since 97 and to change that interface may requires a total
re-build.
> >, but have it ever occured to you that
> > it would be better off to spend that cash on other issues?
>
> Yes. But TA lets you build other better stuff which is needed while your
> factories are queued up as well.
In TA, when queing up commands or units, does it spend the cash ? If so,
then one should not queue that many units but rather focus on more
buildings/expanding.
> And just because I told my Aircraft Plant to build 50 Bombers, it doesn't
mean that they will all get built.
In SC, if you had queued 5 units, cancelling it would not get you back all
the cash needed to queue that unit. Is it the same for TA?
> But in the mean time, I don't have to check up on it 10 times to get them
all built.
> And this is just one Aircraft Plant along with my Vehicle Plants,
> Infantry Labs, nukes, anti-nukes, anti-air, artillery, Fusion Plants,
Mining
> rigs, etc. Meanwhile, I'm on the other end of the 32 x 32 screen-wide map
> commanding my airforce and naval units before I send in the ground
invasion
> on the enemy whose obviously losing at this point.
How long does this a game normally takes to finish?
> > That is why SC is
> > different from the rest. It makes you 'pay' great attention on the game.
>
> Ok. Nevermind what I just said then. Come to think of it, I had no idea
I
> was winning the game until it ended and it said I won. I should focus
more
> on the game next time. Good god, what people will say about playing SC so
> it makes them feel good inside about their $9 choice of purchase. Hell,
> I've thrown away games better than SC.
It is because SC is a 'very' old game. It was around in 97, but the
popularity of SC is still growing. That is a record not many game developer
has.
Sean Keenan
> news:affud2$e2d82$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
>
> > > I'd like to see the interface improved myself. I don't like the
mad
> > > clicking -- it starts to hurt after a while.
> >
> > Bah, wuss.
>
> See! The SC'ers eat their own kind.
There's no mention of canniballism. Please tell me honestly that no one
ever taunted an opponent in TA ever. Never. Not even for the tank rushes
on a newbie who just got the game? Not one mention of "noob" or "loser"
or "jerk" or even discourteousness?
How do you know that there isn't an inner meaning to the message? I'm
sure you don't lurk AGSC normally- someone as 'high' and 'mighty' as you
would NEVER waste your time in such an <i> inferior </i> group as AGSC,
would you? You do not know the relationship between posters here. You
make assumptions left and right without knowing anything of the environ.
SHONNER
> I prefer the War3 interface to the SC one. It's not quite what Marco
wants
> as it's missing several things to ease mass production -- then again,
that's
> not the game's focus. However, grouping buildings is there and smarter
> rallying to keep reinforcements up is also there. Now only if the pace
> could be quickened a bit...
What pace does it currently have? I haven't played it yet.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Sean Keenan
You've reached the point of utter bullshit where I am just forced to bow
to your idiocy to spit in your face.
HAND.
SK
Sean Keenan
> I've thrown away games better than SC.
Damn man, that was a perfectly good copy of Brood War.
Steven Ung
> news:afgckp$e24ba$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> > "Marco" <marc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns923A8E582D312m...@205.237.233.52...
> > > StormTrooper wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's called having SKILL
> > >
> > > Well if you have Total Annihilation installed I'd be happy to give you
a
> > > demonstration of skill and show you what is possible in the game.
> >
> > That doesn't really prove anything. It merely proves that you've spend
> more
> > hours in TA than SC. I could say the same to you too, right?
>
> It would hurt us to use your interface.
I would eventually have a steep learning curve if I were to play TA in order
to play you since I have never played TA. You OTOH, had already played both.
> But it can be done. You on the other hand would have to get used to the
war.
I don't see any problem with that, except that I don't have TA. :(
> But you're not even old enough to be playing "T"een rated games.
That is really uncalled for. If you can't discuss things like an adult,
please refrain yourself from posting.
Sean Keenan
Please note SC is "M"ature, disproving your 'point'.
Sean Keenan
No, it required MACROmanagement. Learn your terms.
And what happens when the two best TA players play each other? I guess
one really never had SKILL, eh?
SHONNER
> I think the only game that can beat StarCraft popularity is Pacman. :p
Chess is more popular. But it requires thought. Not Tourette's Syndrome.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Steven Ung
None, IIRC. But you can set the pace (Normal/Fast/Fastest, IIRC) in
Multiplayer. But I've only played the Beta, and it may differ from the
original that is scheduled to be released.
SHONNER
news:ocDS8.9973$Hl2.73...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> "Ramen "Clever Subname" Junkie" <lame...@gamebox.netten> wrote in
message
> news:UXtS8.2956$pJ3.12...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Hmm, I remember that too...then he blew up half your base when he got
> > > killed...
> >
> > Yeah. Kind of annoying if he takes out your leader too.
>
> That's why you set up a small shedload of Berthas/Intimidators ASAP, to
blast him out
> of existence before he gets close enough
Or just install the TA3.1 patch that fixes the problem and makes TA the
greatest RTS of all.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
> Aircraft is the key to stopping the commander attacking your base - you
can
> construct an aircraft thing within the first few minutes, then build a
load
> of fighters/bombers to kill the commander - even these level 1 aircraft
can
> do it easily, especially if you speed up the production of these aircraft
> with your commander...
>
> That's probably the best way to deal with it, I think ;)
Flash Tanks, actually. Lots of them. Either option though won't work if
the other guy is playing, too.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Sean Keenan
> news:afgar0$ebf1g$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> > I think the only game that can beat StarCraft popularity is Pacman.
:p
>
> Chess is more popular. But it requires thought. Not Tourette's
Syndrome.
Tourette's is more of twitching randomly and basically losing control of
your whole body.
Far from the degree of control needed for StarCraft.
Sean Keenan
SHONNER
> > Which RTS out there has the least amount of micromanagement in it?
>
> Battle Realms, but not very popular game. I wonder why.
I'm guessing because TA is the best RTS.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
Steven Ung
SHONNER
> > Woah, Dude. No one here said anything about unlimited unit production.
>
> What is the limit for queing up units in TA?
I guess however many times you click on the unit for a factory to build? If
you were to sit there the whole game and do nothing but click on the build
button, you'd get dead. So, you have make a decision on how many chickens
you'd like before they're hatched and what you really need to build. SC
doesn't give you as much a choice. It decides for you what you're going to
attempt to build for the future. SC'ers just agree with the GUI's madness.
> I do agree that SC requires you to 'click' like crazy, but that doesn't
mean
> that it is not a good game. I'm sure the same can be said about TA. SC has
> been around since 97 and to change that interface may requires a total
> re-build.
98, actually. You can wait all you want though for SC2 or 3. Or just get
TA and start now.
> In TA, when queing up commands or units, does it spend the cash ?
No. Not until units are actually being built does metal and energy start
getting used.
> If so, then one should not queue that many units but rather focus on more
> buildings/expanding.
Owh. The migraines are returning. You guys in here really play this SC
game?
> > And just because I told my Aircraft Plant to build 50 Bombers, it
doesn't
> mean that they will all get built.
>
> In SC, if you had queued 5 units, cancelling it would not get you back all
> the cash needed to queue that unit. Is it the same for TA?
You don't buy in advance, so you don't getting anything back. You pay
per/second while any building is being done. If you cancel building a unit,
you only wasted energy metal on how much the unit was built so far. These
are good questions you're asking, by the way. Because wrong thinking gets
you totally annihilated.
> How long does this a game normally takes to finish?
Depends on the size of the map and how far they are from you because you'll
have to find them first to start the killing. Because players will take as
long as they want to attack you, it could be anywhere from 15 minutes to 8
hours to play a game. Normal sized maps (12 x 12 screens wide) generally
take 40-50 minutes or longer if it's defense-intensive.
> > I've thrown away games better than SC.
>
> It is because SC is a 'very' old game.
Age has nothing to do with how good a game is.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
SHONNER
--
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
"Sean Keenan" <x4ya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afgjdd$e9jrf$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
SHONNER
--
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
"Sean Keenan" <x4ya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afgj81$e0m5u$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
SHONNER
--
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
"Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my> wrote in message
news:afgi43$dujck$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> "SHONNER" <sho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3d1bc...@news.vic.com...
> > "Zealot The Crazy Vous" <ktwils...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> > news:fqrmhuk9qvuomj4ds...@4ax.com...
> > > >By the way, can't queue units with protoss either, you can only START
> > > >another structure without waiting for the first to be done, big deal.
> > Not
> > > >exactly what I meant.
> > >
> > > Hold shift...
> >
> > And SC's red-headed stepchild tries to write FART on the sidewalk with a
> > brand new piece of chalk his mom stole from nightschool.
>
> Oh.. come on. Don't be like Sean Keenan. You condemn his post but you do
the
> same?
SHONNER
--
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
"Sean Keenan" <x4ya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afgith$e6p6m$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
SHONNER
micromanagement. US sergeants could think on their own.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
"Sean Keenan" <x4ya...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afgji7$e8iu4$1...@ID-131846.news.dfncis.de...
SHONNER
vs SC war for the day. It's been over a year since I been here. Sorry for
the mess.
SHONNER
http://www.shonner.com
"Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my> wrote in message
news:afgjft$e4vdl$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> "SHONNER" <sho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Steven Ung
> "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my> wrote in message
> news:afgj21$efcqv$1...@ID-121643.news.dfncis.de...
> > > Woah, Dude. No one here said anything about unlimited unit
production.
> >
> > What is the limit for queing up units in TA?
>
> I guess however many times you click on the unit for a factory to build?
If
> you were to sit there the whole game and do nothing but click on the build
> button, you'd get dead. So, you have make a decision on how many chickens
> you'd like before they're hatched and what you really need to build. SC
> doesn't give you as much a choice. It decides for you what you're going
to
> attempt to build for the future. SC'ers just agree with the GUI's
madness.
>
>
> > I do agree that SC requires you to 'click' like crazy, but that doesn't
> mean
> > that it is not a good game. I'm sure the same can be said about TA. SC
has
> > been around since 97 and to change that interface may requires a total
> > re-build.
>
> 98, actually. You can wait all you want though for SC2 or 3. Or just get
> TA and start now.
> > In TA, when queing up commands or units, does it spend the cash ?
>
> No. Not until units are actually being built does metal and energy start
> getting used.
Uhmn.. then this is where it differs from SC.
> > If so, then one should not queue that many units but rather focus on
more
> > buildings/expanding.
>
> Owh. The migraines are returning. You guys in here really play this SC
> game?
Yes. Online, but not the single player mission.
> > > And just because I told my Aircraft Plant to build 50 Bombers, it
> doesn't
> > mean that they will all get built.
> >
> > In SC, if you had queued 5 units, cancelling it would not get you back
all
> > the cash needed to queue that unit. Is it the same for TA?
>
> You don't buy in advance, so you don't getting anything back. You pay
> per/second while any building is being done. If you cancel building a
unit,
> you only wasted energy metal on how much the unit was built so far. These
> are good questions you're asking, by the way. Because wrong thinking gets
> you totally annihilated.
Since you've said that queing up units does not spend cash, then my point is
really useless. But one thing for certain is that (which you have said it
yourself), the time spent on clicking to queue up the units should be better
off spend on building other things.
> > How long does this a game normally takes to finish?
>
> Depends on the size of the map and how far they are from you because
you'll
> have to find them first to start the killing. Because players will take
as
> long as they want to attack you, it could be anywhere from 15 minutes to 8
> hours to play a game.
8 hours?! Serious?
> Normal sized maps (12 x 12 screens wide) generally take 40-50 minutes or
longer if it's defense-intensive.
> > > I've thrown away games better than SC.
> >
> > It is because SC is a 'very' old game.
>
> Age has nothing to do with how good a game is.
Yes it has. Newer games tends to include the features being copied from
other games that has better acceptance. For example, 3D and how many
units/orders can be queued.
I think the main reason why SC has so many limitation is because, back in
98, most of the computers are still on PII and PIII. To put all these
features into the game will make it bigger, and one may need a better
machine to run it. Take note, I'm speaking for the rest of the world, and
not limited to US markets.
Steven Ung
> Ok. You're right. I'll quit. My job is done here. Just needed a good
TA
> vs SC war for the day. It's been over a year since I been here. Sorry
for
> the mess.
I'll find you guys if I happen to have the extra cash to get TA. I'm a bit
tight on the budget at this moment having to serve a loan for the new
apartment, and as well as rental. :(
Zealot The Crazy Vous
28 Jun 2002 10:30:36 +0800, when "Steven Ung" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my>,
started attacking me out of nowhere. After I got a detector and saw he
was a DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys from TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and
I said::
>> And SC's red-headed stepchild tries to write FART on the sidewalk with a
>> brand new piece of chalk his mom stole from nightschool.
>
>Oh.. come on. Don't be like Sean Keenan. You condemn his post but you do the
>same?
At least *someone* knows how to snip sigs around here ;)
--
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=)
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Zealot the Crazy Vous
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re-vamped sig xp Build 2004.21-SH
Zealot The Crazy Vous
27 Jun 2002 23:18:16 -0400, when "Sean Keenan"
<x4ya...@hotmail.com>, started attacking me out of nowhere. After I
got a detector and saw he was a DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys
from TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I said::
>the
>> greatest RTS of all.
>By what standards?
Very, very low ones(that exclude anything but games that include the
words Total and Annihilation)
Zealot The Crazy Vous
<x4ya...@hotmail.com>, started attacking me out of nowhere. After I
got a detector and saw he was a DT, he said "Re: A gift to you guys
from TOTAL ANNIHILATION" and I said::
>> enough to be playing "T"een rated games.
>Please note SC is "M"ature, disproving your 'point'.
Since when? Starcraft is rated Teen by the ESRB. It says so on the
damn cd case you morno :P
Not to mention the ESRB rating has absolutely nothing to do with the
quality of the game or the gamers. Hell, I could be playing
CS/SC/TA/every other 1337 T/M rated game and then get bored and play
some lame E game. It means abosolutely nothing.
**Scorched**
> > Hey I thought Boneyards (internet TA servers) shut down though...? :-/
>
> Huh? Who uses Boneyards anymore?
>
>
>
> SHONNER
> http://www.shonner.com
>
>
Gah..... how else are you supposed to play TA on the internet then? :(
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