Jump Gate
Jim Hoffman
I'm in my 30-day trial period.
A couple questions:
How long am I gonna have to do cargo runs? Boooriing!
How can I get my rumblepad gamepad to work? Jump Gate ignores the
slider/throttle control and tries to use the right-hand joystick for
throttle instead. So i'm reverting back to using the mouse :(
I had high hopes for this game, but it's nothing special so far.
Transit
Off and on for a while now. Cancelled my account (for the second time, third
if you count beta) last month. I keep succumbing to the desire to believe it
isn't as bad as it really is and to give it another chance.
>I'm in my 30-day trial period.
>A couple questions:
>
>How long am I gonna have to do cargo runs? Boooriing!
Until you decide to try shooting flux - which is better XP, and really not that
hard, and a decent change of pace ... but you'll get bored with shooting flux
pretty soon too.
My last time through, I found that trying to collect all the various medals
kept the game interesting through level 18 or so. The official website has a
list of all the medals somewhere. Switching from mining to beacon-flipping to
flux hunting to cargo runs all the time keeps things relatively lively.
The fundamental problem is that it's just a levelling treadmill, in the end.
So whatever you find to do that's interesting, it'll only last so long before
you finally face up to the fact you're just working for the next level.
>How can I get my rumblepad gamepad to work? Jump Gate ignores the
>slider/throttle control and tries to use the right-hand joystick for
>throttle instead. So i'm reverting back to using the mouse :(
No idea, but I'm not surprised, their interface is a bit sparse. I'm told
mouse control is actually more precise for combat, but it's nevert felt right
to me.
>I had high hopes for this game, but it's nothing special so far.
Pretty much.
Alexander Macris
> Anyone out there play this?
> I'm in my 30-day trial period.
> A couple questions:
>
> How long am I gonna have to do cargo runs? Boooriing!
Until around level 6. :-)
>
> How can I get my rumblepad gamepad to work? Jump Gate ignores the
> slider/throttle control and tries to use the right-hand joystick for
> throttle instead. So i'm reverting back to using the mouse :(
I'd be surprised if your joystick throttle control isn't supported. I
used a MS Sidewinder Precision 2 and my officemate a Thrustmaster
Afterburner, both with sliders, and both supported. When you hit ESC,
then Control, and scroll through the different options, are you
choosing the configuration that accepts sliders?
You could also see Tech Support in forums.jossh.com or email
jump...@themis-group.com for tech support.
> I had high hopes for this game, but it's nothing special so far.
The new player experience is definitely rather dull. The developers
are working on improving that with more medals and new mission types,
but for now the game doesn't become mildly entertaining until around
level 6.
It'll never be more than mildly entertaining, however, if you treat it
like a single player game. You should get involved in a squadron and
begin to participate in the large-scale political, economic, and
military actions of the game. The game mechanics are very deep, with a
lot more dynamic and persistent elements than most MMOGs. And as far
as things to do at higher levels, there's everything from opposing
alliances trying to control swathes of sectors, to pirate groups
preying on merchants, to squadrons of heavy tow pilots who'll carry
any cargo anywhere for a price.
cheers
Alex Macris (Jumpgate - GM_Archon)
Themis Group
Transit
>like a single player game.
This is a fundamental flaw in the attitude of the people running this game. DO
NOT tell your players they're playing the game wrong. That never, ever, ever
works. See how the players play the game, and adapt the game in response. If
people are trying to play it as a massively single-player game, it's probably
because the game mechanics aren't set up to encourage multiplayer interaction
properly.
Why is there NO squad info or interaction within the game itself? How is a new
player supposed to find out about them? Why is there no facility within the
game for letting players know they've got a job that needs doing? A simple
bulletin board on each station where people could put "help wanted" ads would
drastically improve this. Etc. The game is simply designed badly; don't blame
your players for that.
>You should get involved in a squadron and
>begin to participate in the large-scale political, economic, and
>military actions of the game.
Technically true but in practice irrelevant, see below.
>The game mechanics are very deep, with a
>lot more dynamic and persistent elements than most MMOGs.
You mean how the economy is purely supply-side with no demand modeled in at
all? And how the political side of things is entirely static as far as
stations go and entirely irrelevant as far as beacons go? (That tax bonus
isn't significant enough to count) And how squad politics and ownership isn't
tied in to the "real" universe in any way shape or form?
Basically, this is a lot of players playing "let's pretend", in an environment
which is already "let's pretend".
>And as far
>as things to do at higher levels, there's everything from opposing
>alliances trying to control swathes of sectors,
Which is 1) largely pointless in immediate results except for bragging rights
(that tax bonus never gets NOTICED), 2) completely ephemeral, as a couple fast
scouts can reset a couple dozen systems in the space of half an hour or so, 3)
never has any long-term effect on the game universe.
>to pirate groups
>preying on merchants,
False advertising. The only "pirates" are joyriders who like to shoot
whatever's in front of them. People who try doing real piracy find that the
game mechanics block them at every turn.
>to squadrons of heavy tow pilots who'll carry
>any cargo anywhere for a price.
Which is largely pointless because every single item in the economy is already
massively overproduced.
Nice try, but truth in advertising is more important than enthusiasm.
Alexander Macris
> This is a fundamental flaw in the attitude of the people running this game. DO
> NOT tell your players they're playing the game wrong. That never, ever, ever
> works. See how the players play the game, and adapt the game in response. If
> people are trying to play it as a massively single-player game, it's probably
> because the game mechanics aren't set up to encourage multiplayer interaction
> properly.
I entirely agree with you that a lot more can be done to faciliate
multiplayer interaction. Specifically, for example, an improved chat
interface, player/squadron-owned stations, and multiplayer capital
ships - but all of these things are under development. NetDevil and
Themis polled the playerbase to get their exact priorities on the
critical areas to focus on, and that's exactly what is being given
priority. Check out forums.jossh.com for discussion.
But that sort of a solution is the long-term one. What to do in the
short term? I think that different games have different play styles
which are more rewarding; and where that play style isn't obvious to a
new player, I think its good practice to tell them about it. I
certainly wouldn't call a player 'wrong' for playing another way, but
he might have more fun if he tried it the way I suggested. As you
point out, its not obvious how to get started with a squad - its my
job as a Gamemaster to make what's unclear clear.
> Why is there NO squad info or interaction within the game itself? How is a new
> player supposed to find out about them? Why is there no facility within the
> game for letting players know they've got a job that needs doing? A simple
> bulletin board on each station where people could put "help wanted" ads would
> drastically improve this. Etc. The game is simply designed badly; don't blame
> your players for that.
Again, I agree that there's things that can be done to improve the
game. And your ideas are all good ones. But I honestly don't think I
ever 'blamed' anyone for anything. And if a past representative of
NetDevil has blamed you for playing their game incorrectly, you have
my apologies. As a customer, you certainly can play however you'd like
(short of griefing, I suppose). But I do maintain that getting
involved in group activity makes Jumpgate a lot more fun.
> >The game mechanics are very deep, with a
> >lot more dynamic and persistent elements than most MMOGs.
>
> You mean how the economy is purely supply-side with no demand modeled in at
> all? And how the political side of things is entirely static as far as
> stations go and entirely irrelevant as far as beacons go? (That tax bonus
> isn't significant enough to count) And how squad politics and ownership isn't
> tied in to the "real" universe in any way shape or form?
Its too bad that JG did not live up to your standards for persistence
and dynamism; if it had, perhaps you'd still be a subscriber. But if
you take a second look, I said: "a lot more...than most MMOGs." If
you've played any other MMOG, their economies, for example, don't even
model supply in their economy. Equipment is unlimited and prices
fixed. Nor, with the sole exception of DAOC, do other MMOGs even go so
far as to have beacons (or the equivalent capture-the-flag) that have
any in-game impact at all. Nor are there political ratings, where your
actions affect your ability to dock, equip, and trade with different
factions. So I stand by my position: Jumpgate *is* a lot more dynamic
and persistent than most MMOGs. It is a relative measurement. Probably
most other MMOGs would leave you even less impressed.
> Which is 1) largely pointless in immediate results except for bragging rights
> (that tax bonus never gets NOTICED), 2) completely ephemeral, as a couple fast
> scouts can reset a couple dozen systems in the space of half an hour or so, 3)
> never has any long-term effect on the game universe.
I guess if what you are saying is that because you didn't notice the
tax bonus, its pointless; and because a well-organized enemy could
undo what you did if you didn't defend your territory, its ephemeral,
then I can't really argue with you. Those are your opinions and you
are entitled to them. But it seems to me the interesting thing is that
there are objectives in the game which, if defended and controlled,
given a bonus to your entire faction, which no other MMOG has except
DAOC. And that is something that a new player might not even be aware
of, so I'm glad we brought it up.
> >to pirate groups
> >preying on merchants,
>
> False advertising. The only "pirates" are joyriders who like to shoot
> whatever's in front of them. People who try doing real piracy find that the
> game mechanics block them at every turn.
I think I know what you mean by 'real piracy', and things like cargo
scanning and capture, black market goods, and a playable pirate
faction are under development but about 4-6 months out. But I have to
disagree that I've committed false advertising. Pay-or-die pirates
(i.e. players operating in unregulated space who demand a credit
transfer or they will attack) can do quite well for themselves in JG,
and are very different than simple rogue killers. Perhaps you
personally didn't encounter pirates, but that doesn't mean they aren't
out there.
> >to squadrons of heavy tow pilots who'll carry
> >any cargo anywhere for a price.
>
> Which is largely pointless because every single item in the economy is already
> massively overproduced.
Actually, while that's true for commodities, a lot of the useful ship
equipment is made at only one or a few stations and is scarce and
expensive. For example, Instigator Engines are made only in Hyperial
Space. Flashfires are made only in Amananth. How does a squad based
out of another area keep itself stocked in Instigators or Flashfires?
It doesn't carry them over one by one in its fighters, that's for
sure. They hire a transport squadron to do it. If you don't believe
me, talk to the guild UMEC (http://umec.oesm.org/), because its what
they do in-game.
> Nice try, but truth in advertising is more important than enthusiasm.
Glad you at least thought it was a nice try. But since I was
enthusiastic without being untruthful, I think the harshness of your
response is uncalled for. Jumpgate is a good enough game that I don't
have to lie about it. Its not perfect, it never will be, but its good
and getting better daily. Based on the vehemence of your response, I
assume you had a bad experience either with Jumpgate or a previous
representative of the game. I'm sorry that you were soured, but I hope
you'll not let that bad experience turn this into a flame war where we
impugn each other's integrity.
Sincerely,
Alex Macris
Themis Group
jaj
> >It'll never be more than mildly entertaining, however, if you treat it
> >like a single player game.
>
> This is a fundamental flaw in the attitude of the people running this game. DO
> NOT tell your players they're playing the game wrong. That never, ever, ever
> works. See how the players play the game, and adapt the game in response. If
> people are trying to play it as a massively single-player game, it's probably
> because the game mechanics aren't set up to encourage multiplayer interaction
> properly.
>
> Why is there NO squad info or interaction within the game itself? How is a new
> player supposed to find out about them? Why is there no facility within the
> game for letting players know they've got a job that needs doing? A simple
> bulletin board on each station where people could put "help wanted" ads would
> drastically improve this. Etc. The game is simply designed badly; don't blame
> your players for that.
Let me start of by saying that Jumpgate is the only game that has come
close to entertaining me as much as Elite did all those years back. I
was and remain simply amazed at the entertainment and satisfaction I
get
from it.
Quite frankly I totally fail to get this bit about failing to
encourage
multi-player interaction. Try flying into unregulated space and watch
the multiplayer interaction light up your shields; listen to the comms
channels demanding payment as a pirate (real player interacting with
you)
tries to extort money out of you; look on in amazement, with your
heart
pounding in your ears as you wonder if you'll make it to the Jumpgate
in time after refusing the pirates demands.
This is just one example of multi-player interaction that is
encouraged by the game. Encouraged because the game sets up a universe
that lots of pilots can exist in at the same time. You can see the
other ships, you can interact with the other ships, you can talk to
the other pilots, you can read the goings on in the univers on JOSSH,
you can contribute and you can take. The Roll Play going on is
generally excellent.
And as for no facility in the game for job advertising that's only
partially true (and irrelevant in terms of it's scope). People can
talk to eachother on sector chat. That is a facility. In terms of
static billboard style advertising you need to visit
http://www.planetjumpgate.com/. There are loads of jobs on the boards
there. The game (not just the software) utilises the WWW as an
information source. Use it. It works.
As for squad info. see the above re www. As for squad interaction,
join one. It is a great experience. Believe me, the first time you go
on convoy with your squad to help rescue a docked squad member from
unregulated space you will know the meaning of squad interaction.
If you don't like the game fine. You just haven't found the game you
are looking for. I and thousands of others have and it's called
Jumpgate.
All I can say to others reading this thread that remember the days of
Elite, when they wondered what it would be like if those ships
actually had other players in them, give Jumpgate a go. It's on free
trial at the moment at www.mightygames.com in the EU and
www.netdevil.com (I think) in the US.
And no, I have nothing at all to do with the various companies
involved in the game. I am a totally satisfied player, simple as that.
(Pilot nim).
John Anderson
ungodly amount of time to build up your wealth, then it is nothing but a
boring waste of your time on this earth.
"jaj" <j...@cyberscience.com> wrote in message
news:a7d18b8b.02031...@posting.google.com...
> kes...@aol.com (Transit) wrote in message
news:<20020312141612...@mb-bk.aol.com>...
>
Aaron
first, Instigators are made in Amananth along with Flashfires, its
Morning Stars and Nova Mk1 that are made in Hyperial.
kes...@aol.com (Transit) wrote in message news:<20020312141612...@mb-bk.aol.com>...
> >It'll never be more than mildly entertaining, however, if you treat it
> >like a single player game.
>
> This is a fundamental flaw in the attitude of the people running this game. DO
> NOT tell your players they're playing the game wrong. That never, ever, ever
> works. See how the players play the game, and adapt the game in response. If
> people are trying to play it as a massively single-player game, it's probably
> because the game mechanics aren't set up to encourage multiplayer interaction
> properly.
ok, GM_Archon had it fundamentally right, theres nothing wrong with
someone treating this as a single player game, but the game is
DESIGNED to be played multi-player, have lots of player interactions.
Yes, the beginnings of the game can be slow, but ND(NetDevil, the game
company) has helped that out some with improved payouts in experience
and credits in some of the missions which low level players generally
take. IMHO, the real strength of JG(Jumpgate) is its player
interaction. I may happen to be a high level player(lvl 42), but I can
still remember when I was struggling to reach level 9 way back in the
beginning of release. With all my crashes and accidents that I had, I
had my squad to share it with and have a good laugh over it.
> Why is there NO squad info or interaction within the game itself? How is a new
> player supposed to find out about them? Why is there no facility within the
> game for letting players know they've got a job that needs doing? A simple
> bulletin board on each station where people could put "help wanted" ads would
> drastically improve this. Etc. The game is simply designed badly; don't blame
> your players for that.
>
I disagree with this, the game has BUILT IN squad chat support, built
in tagging of who is in what squad when you target them on the radar.
no, its not perfect, and it most likely could be improved a fair
amount. but it is THERE. also, about the job boards, no, there is no
official in game support at this time, but there DOES happen to be a
web page which is acknowledged as a nearly official if not an official
web page for the game which does have a job board, along with MANY
aids for people including some wonderful FAQs. the page is
http://planetjumpgate.net
> >You should get involved in a squadron and
> >begin to participate in the large-scale political, economic, and
> >military actions of the game.
>
> Technically true but in practice irrelevant, see below.
>
> >The game mechanics are very deep, with a
> >lot more dynamic and persistent elements than most MMOGs.
>
> You mean how the economy is purely supply-side with no demand modeled in at
> all? And how the political side of things is entirely static as far as
> stations go and entirely irrelevant as far as beacons go? (That tax bonus
> isn't significant enough to count) And how squad politics and ownership isn't
> tied in to the "real" universe in any way shape or form?
>
ok, the economy. no, its not that great at all. frankly, most of us
players think it sucks. it works...sorta, and we've told ND, and I
know they're working on a partial fix, and hopefully eventually a much
better fix.
the politics, you don't have to join a squad to take part in them,
theres Rollio who for a while inflicted basically griefer killing upon
a different faction, and RPed it somewhat as a type of politics.
staying away from him, there are squads that go to war, have
alliances, etc. also, some of the factions are in general conflict
with eachother, or even a large group with a faction. for instance,
there is an alliance known as EEA on the US server, and they are in
general war with a large part of the Solrain faction.
> Basically, this is a lot of players playing "let's pretend", in an environment
> which is already "let's pretend".
>
> >And as far
> >as things to do at higher levels, there's everything from opposing
> >alliances trying to control swathes of sectors,
>
> Which is 1) largely pointless in immediate results except for bragging rights
> (that tax bonus never gets NOTICED), 2) completely ephemeral, as a couple fast
> scouts can reset a couple dozen systems in the space of half an hour or so, 3)
> never has any long-term effect on the game universe.
ok, the beacons and such, they ARE paid attention to, at least in so
far as a faction looks at the beacons which are nominally in their
terretory, and in general, they keep those beacons tuned to their
faction. and about the tax bonus, no we don't hound after it, but
often enough I'll fly around flipping dreg(deregulated space) and flip
most of them to my faction for a couple reasons. one is for the exp I
get from it, another is to lower my factions taxes because I'm a nice
guy. there are Player Owned Stations in the works, but they probably
won't be out for another couple of months. however, they ARE coming,
and ND consitantly adds new equipment, new sectors, new things to the
game along with general bug fixes.
>
> >to pirate groups
> >preying on merchants,
>
> False advertising. The only "pirates" are joyriders who like to shoot
> whatever's in front of them. People who try doing real piracy find that the
> game mechanics block them at every turn.
>
> >to squadrons of heavy tow pilots who'll carry
> >any cargo anywhere for a price.
pirating equipment, as GM_Archon its in the works. there are people
who go around POD(pay or die) in dreg, though there aren't near as
many as I would like to see, its a hard life.
>
> Which is largely pointless because every single item in the economy is already
> massively overproduced.
>
> Nice try, but truth in advertising is more important than enthusiasm.
ok, thats just how I see the game and my replys to your comments. I'm
a player, I wasn't in beta unfortunately, but I have been playing
since release and have seen ALOT of stuff, and done it all. the
beginning is a bit slow, no there isn't everything we would like to
see, but ND keeps adding stuff for us. and best of all, ND LISTENS TO
US. we've asked for a few things, such as a balancing of ships, and
they listen. no, its not exactly as we would like in some cases.
I think this game is great, I love it, and I'm going to keep playing
it. its not for everyone, but IMO, its one of the best games out
there. period.
Drizzt321
Espen Berntsen
<fly...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Jumpgate is only for people without a life. Unless you play it for an
>ungodly amount of time to build up your wealth, then it is nothing but a
>boring waste of your time on this earth.
In other words, a lot like Elite then.
--
Name, the fame