Who will accept the new Message?
Dolores Vogelsang
70- Many (the majority) of people are well-rooted in their beliefs
from their cultures, family, religions, ancestors, etc. How will
they accept the New Message of The Great Sign?
There is a Great Law which separates those who are ready to
receive The Message from those who are not: Whenever a true seeker
encounters a new teacher (Message) he has to empty his "cup" (previous
concepts, understandings, etc) so the new wine can replace the old.
As Esa (Jesus) said, "...No man puts new wine in old skin,..."
The Message of The Great Sign is the New Wine. You cannot
compare it with the old teaching, if you do you will be confused.
Then you would have two masters and you either have to Love one and
hate the other, or you have to leave one for the other. As it has been
said, "You cannot have two Masters."
We are a sower who sows the seed of this New Message. Many
will fall on stones (filled cups) and will wither away. Many will fall
on the way side and be destroyed. Many will be choked by the weeds,
etc. However, a few will fall on fertile ground which will give a
hundred, seventy, and thirty-fold. These are the ones who have been
prepared to manifest The Plan. They are the ones whose cups are not
filled. They are empty (humble) and thirsty. They will take the New
Wine and drink of it with the zeal of a thirsty man, and will give to
many others to drink also!
Taken from Golden Keys 4 which can be found on our web site:
http://www.maitreya.org/english/keysform.htm
All six of our Golden Keys series "contain answers given by
Maitreya (Joseph Emmanuel) to questions which have been asked in the
letters He received from many. Each question and its answer is like a
little Golden Key to unlock the meanings of His Mission and teachings
a little further."
Posted by Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
John P. Boatwright
Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
> How will they accept the
Lying?
Nah, they'll see right through it.
The >>> FOUR <<< different ways that Joseph M. Emmanuel
has claimed to have opened the "sixth seal" in Revelation:
During the 3rd week in Feb '98:
==============================================================
Joseph M. Emmanuel wrote:
The Sixth Seal came from India, and now we have the
Seventh Seal (The Circle is complete).
==============================================================
Hmm... but JME previously said an A-bomb over Japan was the
sixth seal.
Here's let's go down memory lane...
During the first week of July '97:
==============================================================
Joseph M. Emmanuel wrote:
The founder of the Sixth Seal, the twin prophet,
came in the beginning of the nineteen century. The
atomic bomb did shock the earth, darken the sun, etc.
==============================================================
But notice:
An earthquake is replaced by >>> TWO <<< A-bombs on different
days???
Now just quick as a wink, JME being confronted by such a
massive error in his knowledge of history (one vs. two
A-bombs, oh me oh my, he's lost his history text)...
oooo.... oooo.... ooo... ya, let's just change the sixth
seal AGAIN:
During the second week of July '97:
==============================================================
Joseph M. Emmanuel wrote:
He has Opened Six Seals of The Great Sign, except
One. The One He did not open is the Sixth Seal.
The Sixth Seal was opened by another person in 1945,
in India.
==============================================================
Oh gosh, now the 6th seal is:
* JME was part of some incident in India in 1945.
* Oh wait... it was one A-bomb over Japan (yet there
were two A-bombs over Japan on different days).
* Or... it's an incident in India by JME's twin bother.
ha ha ha...
Not to mention that JME is supposed to open the seals
himself as Jesus, hence no twin brother is possible.
Then not to be outdone, his alter ego (JME is a multiple
personality, many in his head are women) said:
In the second week of Mar 1998:
=====================================================
Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
The sixth seal was opened by Baba. The religion
is Ananda Marga. The Message is that the Elects
(Paravipras) will help humanity to the Goal (The
Goal Of The Life Is To Be(come) Divine, And That
Divinity (God) Is Everything).
=====================================================
All say that Joseph M. Emmanuel at Marrieta.LIAR.org is
a CONFIRMED LIAR.
No reason to read his materials or bother trying to reason
with him since JME is either a LIAR, RETARDED, or INSANE.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
gen...@usit.net
You do not offer the new wine of God but "Wormwood;" the waters of man
which cause death. Only those of the true vine of the planting of God
are the "grapes;" the fruit of the vine, which when pressed, bring
forth the wine of God, including the wrath of God as promised.
Spiritual matters you do not know nor understand, nor Joseph.
dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
DW Suiter
Greg Long
Dolores Vogelsang wrote in message <6io9kk$n...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>
: Whenever a true seeker
>encounters a new teacher (Message) he has to empty his "cup" (previous
>concepts, understandings, etc) so the new wine can replace the old.
In otherwords he must abandon his faith and his reason to be ready for
indoctrination..
>Then you would have two masters and you either have to Love one and
>hate the other, or you have to leave one for the other. As it has been
>said, "You cannot have two Masters."
Therefore you will need to abandon your previous faith and reason and
worship the Great deceiver under the Planetary Initiation proposal.
.You choose your own Master and sustain the consequences.
Jesus Is The Christ
Greg.
Dolores Vogelsang
>
>Dolores Vogelsang wrote in message <6io9kk$n...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>>
>: Whenever a true seeker
>>encounters a new teacher (Message) he has to empty his "cup" (previous
>>concepts, understandings, etc) so the new wine can replace the old.
>
>In otherwords he must abandon his faith and his reason to be ready for
>indoctrination..
Is your faith in God? If it is, then you will desire more
than anything to do His Will. The First/Only Begotten Son of God, and
all of God's sons desire the same. To do God's Will, all those who
have faith in God, will work together as One.
>
>>Then you would have two masters and you either have to Love one and
>>hate the other, or you have to leave one for the other. As it has been
>>said, "You cannot have two Masters."
>
>Therefore you will need to abandon your previous faith and reason and
>worship the Great deceiver under the Planetary Initiation proposal.
>
>.You choose your own Master and sustain the consequences.
>
>Jesus Is The Christ
>
>Greg.
>
Hello Greg,
Esa spoke the words, "You cannot have two Masters...." These
words are the Truth of God.
Can you realize that Christ is the same Christ, the same
First/Only Begotten Son of God, whether he is called Esa, Muhammed,
Bab, or Maitreya? He has been sent to earth many times by God. He
has always been born of a woman. And he has each time been given a
new name at birth (his sacred name has never changed).
If you really KNOW Christ, why would you not recognize him by
any name? You see, Greg, the problem arises because humanity has
never known the Plan of God. The Plan of God is prophesied in the
book of the Bible, The Revelation.
According to this post, you have chosen to remain in the
teaching of the 3rd seal that Christ brought from the Father when he
was Esa. This is a beautiful teaching.
At some point in your life you might consider studying one or
more of the other Messages he brought, either before he came as Esa or
after.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
John P. Boatwright
Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
> According to this post
Well ya, and according to past posts as well. In
particular, let's review some of JME's senseless LYING:
Sentience
> (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
> Is your faith in God? If it is, then you will desire more
>than anything to do His Will. The First/Only Begotten Son of God, and
>all of God's sons desire the same. To do God's Will, all those who
>have faith in God, will work together as One.
If they all work together as one why do they contradict each other so
much? As I have said before God, His Messengers and all these
Messiahs must be a very confused bunch.
>Esa spoke the words, "You cannot have two Masters...." These
>words are the Truth of God.
>Can you realize that Christ is the same Christ, the same
>First/Only Begotten Son of God, whether he is called Esa, Muhammed,
>Bab, or Maitreya?
Show me one place within the entire Holy Qur'an where Muhammad (PBUH)
is termed 'the only begotten son' of God? Didn't you know that this
is a blasphemy within Islam? Shirk!
Show me one place within the entire Holy Qur'an & the Hadiths where
Muhammad (PBUH) claims to be a manifestation or the Christ?
How then can they be the same person when neither acknowledges the
other? The Messiah didn't give a prophecy that He was going to come
back as Muhammad (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH) didn't ever claim such a
thing.
Even a Muslim child would know this.
I think this maitreya may have a good grasp of some Biblical
Scriptures, but He is way of when it comes to Islam, Bahaism, Buddhism
and even parts of the Hindu 'Avatar' teaching. My guess (and correct
me if I am wrong) is that he is from the West and only has a
superficial understanding of the other great faiths.
>He has been sent to earth many times by God. He
>has always been born of a woman. And he has each time been given a
>new name at birth (his sacred name has never changed).
Pray tell; what then is this sacred name which has never changed?
There is one difference though, the Messiah died and was raised
(according to Christianity) and He is literally going to come back in
the same resurrected body.
According to Islam the Messiah will descend (He was preserved by
Allah) again literally and physically to the earth.
Neither teach He will be born (or come back if you will) as a child.
I would like to know what happens to the Messiah's RESURRECTED body if
He is supposed to keep coming back as a child? Did He just toss it
aside only to come and be Muhammad (PBUH) and somehow forget to let
Islam know that their Prophet was really the Messiah? Did He come
back as Muhammad (PBUH) only to forget how He died and was raised in
the first place?
The Holy Qur'an & the Sacred Bible hold two very different versions of
what happened at His death/Substitution on the cross/stake (Staurus).
Talk about the same person confusing the issue about His own past.
> If you really KNOW Christ, why would you not recognize him by
>any name? You see, Greg, the problem arises because humanity has
>never known the Plan of God. The Plan of God is prophesied in the
>book of the Bible, The Revelation.
The name is not really the problem, the problem is contained within
the personage of the Messiah and His arrival.
When people devise plans, to any given topic the results can be
astounding and not to mention more often than not completely wrong.
It is very easy for anyone to make old prophecies etc apply to
themselves or to others. It has been done (and is still being done)
over and over.
> At some point in your life you might consider studying one or
>more of the other Messages he brought, either before he came as Esa or
>after.
:-) I have done. :-)
I tell you what, I present a simple challenge to this messiah (now
this shouldn't be to hard for a messiah to do), tell me only two
things :
What is my real name?
And what are the names of my three dogs?
(A good hacker could do both of these things).
Will you take the challenge?
Or let me guess your messiah doesn't give such proofs; Uhmm or he is
not available at the moment.... (standard excuses that many give.)
Sigh I guess then its probably back to just words again :-(
Well you have three days to show me that he is who he claims to be.
Though I honestly doubt he will do this my guess is he has all his
excuses neatly worked out.
Student.
Terrans Vining
In the Gospels,the Apostles have written Christ said He would return as
He left.Meaning
He will step out onto earth from God's homeplace in God's demensional part
of the universe.
Thats perfect justice,Christ able to live on earth as Christ fullgrown,and
people able to
see and learn how much they must learn and grow in order to someday have
the perfect
life prophesied by Christ and all of God's other students,including
Mohamad. And He will
proove His identity to those whom find and ask proof of Him as to His
identity.
They must be prepaired to hear His judgements.They must of already chosen
to repent as He advises;and if demon possessed,prepaired to be redeemed
from captivity to the demon;
if seeking answers on puzzles,prepaired to accept answers;if seeking
answers on law,prepaired to
hear the truth about law;and if seeking help with global
disarmament,prepaired to seek
global disarmament.
To seek personal meeting with Christ requires prepairation to learn of
God's true eternal judgements
and prepaired to make the right choice one has chosen for one's eternal
life.
Dolores Vogelsang
On Sat, 16 May 1998 02:17:33 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
wrote:
>> (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
>
>> Is your faith in God? If it is, then you will desire more
>>than anything to do His Will. The First/Only Begotten Son of God, and
>>all of God's sons desire the same. To do God's Will, all those who
>>have faith in God, will work together as One.
>
>If they all work together as one why do they contradict each other so
>much? As I have said before God, His Messengers and all these
>Messiahs must be a very confused bunch.
>
>>Esa spoke the words, "You cannot have two Masters...." These
>>words are the Truth of God.
>>Can you realize that Christ is the same Christ, the same
>>First/Only Begotten Son of God, whether he is called Esa, Muhammed,
>>Bab, or Maitreya?
>
>Show me one place within the entire Holy Qur'an where Muhammad (PBUH)
>is termed 'the only begotten son' of God? Didn't you know that this
>is a blasphemy within Islam? Shirk!
>
>Show me one place within the entire Holy Qur'an & the Hadiths where
>Muhammad (PBUH) claims to be a manifestation or the Christ?
>
>How then can they be the same person when neither acknowledges the
>other? The Messiah didn't give a prophecy that He was going to come
>back as Muhammad (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH) didn't ever claim such a
>thing.
>
>Even a Muslim child would know this.
What was the meaning of Esa's prayer in the garden just before
the soldiers came for him? He asked the Father to let this cup pass
from me. "But not my will but Thine Will be done."
Was he pointing to what he would be teaching next, surrender
and submission to God? This is the Message that Prophet Muhammed
brought to humanity, it is the Message of the 4th seal.
As we look in the Bible, in the book of Revelation, we can
discover that God Revealed the Message of the 4th seal to Prophet
Muhammed. Only the Lamb of God can open those seals. If the
Christian world would just look at this prophecy, they would have no
choice but to accept Prophet Muhammed as the Manifestation (if the
word Christ is a problem) promised to come.
This prophecy also tells us, "And power was given unto them
over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with
hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
It was revealed by the Grace of God to Maitreya (Joseph
Emmanuel) and written in THOTH,
"Islam covered the fourth part of the earth through the
concept of "Holy Wars." They established themselves by the power of
war "with sword," which was given them. If this power had not been
given to them, they could not have been able to do it.
Now if Muslims don't accept this prophecy, why do they try to
convince Christians to accept Prophet Muhammed and The Koran?
Christians expect the Christ. If Muslims say Prophet Muhammed was not
the Christ, why should Christians convert to Islam?
I say Prophet Muhammed was the Christ, and that he fulfilled
God's Promises to Abram (Abraham) regarding Abram's son Ishmael. He
was anointed by God to bring a Message, surrender and submission to
God.
>I think this maitreya may have a good grasp of some Biblical
>Scriptures, but He is way of when it comes to Islam, Bahaism, Buddhism
>and even parts of the Hindu 'Avatar' teaching. My guess (and correct
>me if I am wrong) is that he is from the West and only has a
>superficial understanding of the other great faiths.
Actually, he was born and raised in Iran. His family are
Muslims. He, however, did not claim Prophet Muhammed as the Prophet
of God until he came to the west. It was after he came to the west
that God revealed to him who he was and what he wrote as THOTH, the
Scripture of the 7th seal of unification. This Scripture is available
on our web site for reading, studying, downloading. We invite all to
visit and see for themselves.
http://www.maitreya.org
>
>>He has been sent to earth many times by God. He
>>has always been born of a woman. And he has each time been given a
>>new name at birth (his sacred name has never changed).
>
>Pray tell; what then is this sacred name which has never changed?
Prophet Muhammed knew this name. This is another point to
consider, for the Messenger always knows this sacred name. In a
booklet called, Ninety-Nine Names of Allah we find, "One Name which
has been hidden by Allah is called Ism Allah ala'zam: The Greatest
Name of Allah.
"All of Allah's Names are great, but since He has hidden this
particular Name it is referred to as The Greatest Name."
>
>There is one difference though, the Messiah died and was raised
>(according to Christianity) and He is literally going to come back in
>the same resurrected body.
As you see him go he will return. He left in Pure
Consciousness, he will return in Pure Consciousness.
>
>According to Islam the Messiah will descend (He was preserved by
>Allah) again literally and physically to the earth.
Since we've had written history, has this ever been recorded
to have happened?
>
>Neither teach He will be born (or come back if you will) as a child.
Yes, these doctrines of man have always been able to CLOUD
God's truth for those whose eyes are closed, and who do not have ears
to hear. Yet God tells us to ask, to seek, to knock. One can know!
>
>I would like to know what happens to the Messiah's RESURRECTED body if
>He is supposed to keep coming back as a child? Did He just toss it
>aside only to come and be Muhammad (PBUH) and somehow forget to let
>Islam know that their Prophet was really the Messiah? Did He come
>back as Muhammad (PBUH) only to forget how He died and was raised in
>the first place?
When was it that Muhammed realized that he was the one who was
expected? Did he know when he was a child? a young boy? Wasn't he
married when he began to receive the Message?
Hard as it seems to believe, the Messenger usually does not
know who he is when he is young. It is often reported that he is
different, even from childhood. When others may do things because it
is what is expected, or is the tradition, he will question. He is
often referred to as being honest, wise, etc.
When the time is right, God reveals the truth of who he is,
and reveals the Message he is to bring. When he accepts his calling,
then he begins to know.
>
The remainder of the post has been answered in other posts to
you.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Sentience
On Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:27 GMT, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores
Vogelsang) wrote:
I previously wrote:
>>Show me one place within the entire Holy Qur'an where Muhammad (PBUH)
>>is termed 'the only begotten son' of God? Didn't you know that this
>>is a blasphemy within Islam? Shirk!
>>
>>Show me one place within the entire Holy Qur'an & the Hadiths where
>>Muhammad (PBUH) claims to be a manifestation or the Christ?
>>
>>How then can they be the same person when neither acknowledges the
>>other? The Messiah didn't give a prophecy that He was going to come
>>back as Muhammad (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH) didn't ever claim such a
>>thing.
>>
>>Even a Muslim child would know this.
To which Dolores oddly replied:
> What was the meaning of Esa's prayer in the garden just before
>the soldiers came for him? He asked the Father to let this cup pass
>from me. "But not my will but Thine Will be done."
> Was he pointing to what he would be teaching next, surrender
>and submission to God?
In your interpretation you try to make these words mean something else
(as per usual), is it so hard for you to just read them as they are?
Are you trying to tell us now that Jesus did not surrender and submit
to God?
Once again you ignore the context of this scripture; this took place
just before his arrest in Gethsemane, so what is so hard in just
reading it as it is (without your messiah's glasses on). This verse
says NOTHING about Islam, it is simply what it says.
You need to *try* and make it say something about Islam so that it
ties in with your own scheme of things.
>This is the Message that Prophet Muhammed
>brought to humanity, it is the Message of the 4th seal.
A nice try at ignoring my earlier question, however you have failed to
furnish us with one single quote from the Qur'an which says that
Muhammad (PBUH) acknowledged that He is one and the *same* person as
the Messiah. Please show us clearly where it says this in the Qur'an.
> As we look in the Bible, in the book of Revelation, we can
>discover that God Revealed the Message of the 4th seal to Prophet
>Muhammed. Only the Lamb of God can open those seals. If the
>Christian world would just look at this prophecy, they would have no
>choice but to accept Prophet Muhammed as the Manifestation (if the
>word Christ is a problem) promised to come.
Well Christians (and some Muslims) do look at these prophecies but
they do not see anything in the prophecies which SAYS that Muhammad
(PBUH) is the Manifestation of the Messiah. If you can point out a
Bible verse which clearly says this I am sure everyone here would be
interested to hear about it.
Because you start on a faulty premises (by ignoring what the
scriptures have to say for themselves) you end up compiling
misinterpretation upon misinterpretation.
First: you say only the Lamb of God can open these seals, okay that's
fair enough <for now>,
[Now the subtle error creeps in]
then because of that you wrongly conclude (due to your messiah's wrong
interpretations) that Muhammad (PBUH) had to be the same person
because only the 'Lamb of God can open these seals'. You made a false
connection and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
You said Muhammad (PBUH) opened the seals, the Bible and the Qur'an
said no such thing.
Now back to the topic, if this is so show me one single verse in the
Qur'an which says that Muhammad is the same person as the Messiah.
Can you? Will you? We are waiting.
> This prophecy also tells us, "And power was given unto them
>over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with
>hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."
> It was revealed by the Grace of God to Maitreya (Joseph
>Emmanuel) and written in THOTH,
> "Islam covered the fourth part of the earth through the
>concept of "Holy Wars." They established themselves by the power of
>war "with sword," which was given them. If this power had not been
>given to them, they could not have been able to do it.
....And I looked, and behold a pale horse. And the name of him who sat
on it was *DEATH*, and HADES followed with him. And power was given to
them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with
death, and by the beasts of the earth.
(Revelation 6:7,8)
So the religion of Islam is death, and Hades (hell) followed Him on
this pale horse, in fact Muhammad (PBUH) [Who is also Jesus] is called
by a new name, that name being DEATH. Wow you paint a nice picture of
Jesus & Muhammad (PBUH) what a nice name for God to give to them.
Did they cover a quarter of the earth with killing (by the sword), did
they bring hunger to a quarter of the world? Did the beasts also
perish from a quarter of the world? Study up on history and see if
famine followed them as they went on Jiha'd. Did they *literally* do
this? How much of the earth was covered by them in Muhammad's (PBUH)
time? What did they eat if they killed so many beasts? Let me guess
they became vegetarians right.. only kidding :-)
> Now if Muslims don't accept this prophecy, why do they try to
>convince Christians to accept Prophet Muhammed and The Koran?
Because they believe it is the right thing to do according to the
Qur'an, it has nothing at all to do with the seals (that is your
messiah's added interpretation), as I have told you before on a few
occasions, the messages are different, hence one faith tries to
convert the other.
>Christians expect the Christ. If Muslims say Prophet Muhammed was not
>the Christ, why should Christians convert to Islam?
Are you serious with this question? Christians who do revert to Islam
do not do so because they believe Muhammad is the Messiah eh eh.
Again did you think of the obvious? They changed faiths because they
wanted to (for whatever reason)?
Likewise Muslims who convert to Christianity simply do so because they
want to, they have found something in it which is right for them.
No great mystery here unless you try to confuse the obvious.
> I say Prophet Muhammed was the Christ, and that he fulfilled
>God's Promises to Abram (Abraham) regarding Abram's son Ishmael. He
>was anointed by God to bring a Message, surrender and submission to
>God.
You say this but still I am waiting for you to show me where it says
that Muhammad was the Messiah in the Qur'an. Proof please not just
words.
> Actually, he was born and raised in Iran. His family are
>Muslims. He, however, did not claim Prophet Muhammed as the Prophet
>of God until he came to the west.
Yes I noted that on your web site (later on), that could explain his
western & eastern slant (Ananda Marga influence) on things along with
some of his blatant errors.
>>Pray tell; what then is this sacred name which has never changed?
>
> Prophet Muhammed knew this name. This is another point to
>consider, for the Messenger always knows this sacred name. In a
>booklet called, Ninety-Nine Names of Allah we find, "One Name which
>has been hidden by Allah is called Ism Allah ala'zam: The Greatest
>Name of Allah.
> "All of Allah's Names are great, but since He has hidden this
>particular Name it is referred to as The Greatest Name."
So what is this hidden and greatest name, the name that never changes?
>>There is one difference though, the Messiah died and was raised
>>(according to Christianity) and He is literally going to come back in
>>the same resurrected body.
>
> As you see him go he will return. He left in Pure
>Consciousness, he will return in Pure Consciousness.
Where does it say this in the Bible? You are adding things to it
again. Please give me the reference where it says:
"He left in *pure consciousness* and He will return in *pure
consciousness*.
As a matter of fact is there a single instance in the entire Bible
where it uses this phrase *pure consciousness*?
No it doesn't say that now does it. So lets examine why you try to
add this, well if you don't add this extra distortion to what the
texts themselves actually say your messiah is left out of another
prophecy isn't he?
Did your messiah return in the resurrected body that the true Messiah
left in? No plainly he did not, hence your need to add your own
interpretation so that you can make it say something else.
BTW what happened to the Messiah's resurrected body? Does He just
toss it aside or what?
>>According to Islam the Messiah will descend (He was preserved by
>>Allah) again literally and physically to the earth.
>
> Since we've had written history, has this ever been recorded
>to have happened?
>>
>>Neither teach He will be born (or come back if you will) as a child.
>
> Yes, these doctrines of man have always been able to CLOUD
>God's truth for those whose eyes are closed, and who do not have ears
>to hear. Yet God tells us to ask, to seek, to knock. One can know!
So now suddenly when you are backed in a corner they become the
doctrines of man, just because you can't prove your point by the
scriptures alone.
Well lets hope that you do not continue to cloud the obvious readings
of the texts themselves by confusing the issues even further and
adding interpretations which are not there; and are not even
supported.
>>I would like to know what happens to the Messiah's RESURRECTED body if
>>He is supposed to keep coming back as a child? Did He just toss it
>>aside only to come and be Muhammad (PBUH) and somehow forget to let
>>Islam know that their Prophet was really the Messiah? Did He come
>>back as Muhammad (PBUH) only to forget how He died and was raised in
>>the first place?
>
> When was it that Muhammed realized that he was the one who was
>expected? Did he know when he was a child? a young boy? Wasn't he
>married when he began to receive the Message?
> Hard as it seems to believe, the Messenger usually does not
>know who he is when he is young. It is often reported that he is
>different, even from childhood. When others may do things because it
>is what is expected, or is the tradition, he will question. He is
>often referred to as being honest, wise, etc.
> When the time is right, God reveals the truth of who he is,
>and reveals the Message he is to bring. When he accepts his calling,
>then he begins to know.
Err re-read what I wrote above you haven't answered the question.
Till next time :-) Still waiting for you to answer my other posts
properly.
Student.
Visiting Arizona soon :-)
Incidently someone emailed me and brought up a good point, (which put
me in my place) my posts are not to be viewed as a 'lets bash this
messiah' free for all, I hate violence, excuse my words if they come
out wrong or to strong at times, that is not the intention I bear no
hatred to him or his mission.
Dolores Vogelsang
On Sat, 23 May 1998 07:05:16 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
wrote:
>On Fri, 22 May 1998 13:01:27 GMT, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores
>Vogelsang) wrote:
>A nice try at ignoring my earlier question, however you have failed to
>furnish us with one single quote from the Qur'an which says that
>Muhammad (PBUH) acknowledged that He is one and the *same* person as
>the Messiah. Please show us clearly where it says this in the Qur'an.
Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
the Christ. However, history proves who he was. And there are verses
in the Koran that tell us that he was that Messenger. In fact, he did
say that he was a Messenger.
Surah the Story (Al-Qasas) "You did not expect such a
Scripture to be revealed to you, but it came as a mercy from your
Lord." (86)
Surah Counsel (Ash-Shura) "It is beyond the capacity of a
mortal man to speak to God, save by revelation or from behind a veil
or THROUGH A MESSENGER to reveal what He will, by His
permission...(51)
Surah Ornaments of Gold (Az-Zukhruf) "Yes, It [the Koran] is
an essential part of the Eternal Tablet (the source of all
Scriptures), which we possess. (4)
"Prophet Muhammed could not read or write even after he was
chosen as a Prophet. What he read were the revelations given to him
from the Akashic Records.
Also it should be noticed that in the Surah "Ornaments of Gold
(Az-Zukhruf)" it is clearly mentioned that "It" (the Koran) is an
"essential part of the" Akashic Records ("Eternal Table ") but not all
of it." (THOTH, Readings (The Koran), Tablet 1:14-15)
Akashic Records can be seen as the memory which remains in the
Universal Mind. Whoever places his mind in tune with the Universal
Mind can receive the truth of all things which happened in the past,
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock and it
shall be opened unto you [Matthew 7:7] (THOTH, Tablet 1:10)
>>>Pray tell; what then is this sacred name which has never changed?
>So what is this hidden and greatest name, the name that never changes?
This is the sacred name of the Father and the Son. It cannot
be uttered in the manifested world. It is given by this one (Messiah,
First/Only Begotten Son of God, Messenger, Major Manifestation,
whatever name - this one who is sent again and again by God and who
opens the seals - the Spirit of God on earth) to his disciples.
>
>Where does it say this in the Bible? You are adding things to it
>again. Please give me the reference where it says:
>
>"He left in *pure consciousness* and He will return in *pure
>consciousness*.
Heaven and Pure Consciousness is the same. And again, the
exact term "Pure Consciousness" is not used in the Bible.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
John P. Boatwright
Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
> Major Manifestation,
> whatever name - this one who is sent again and again by God and who
> opens the seals - the Spirit of God on earth) to his disciples.
ha ha ha...
What a pile.
Sentience
Or he is sincere but sincerely wrong.
I know that may be strange coming from me, but I wouldn't go so far
and call him a liar etc, we may end up just spreading more hate on
this group which is something none of us really need.
BTW did you get the above from Deja News? Have they answered your post
in regards to this?
>God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
So true :-)
Thanks
Student.
John P. Boatwright
Sentience wrote:
> BTW did you get the above from Deja News?
All of them are EXACT quotes, and I think DejaNews
keeps them around for about 3 years. I haven't gone back
to see if they've kept them (since he's lying, why
bother?).
> Have they answered your post in regards to this?
This one post... no.
He's never responded to ALL FOUR of his different versions
of opening the "sixth seal" in revelation. There's a guy
named Joe Crea (a Buddhist) who was around during a lot of
those quotes, he probably remembers quite a few other blatant
errors JME made.
But the most answers to those individual quotes were as JME
was changing his story on the fly while being caught in
LIE after LIE.
You'll see him do that as you continue on with him, in that
by answering you correctly, he has to LIE about what he's
told others.
The most changes in storyline occur when he's talking
with Buddhists, New Agers, Hindus and Christians all
at once.
* No Gods -- Buddhism
* Everything is God -- New Agers
* Multiple gods -- Hindus
* One God -- Christianity
He claims to unite them all.
What a mess.
Anyways, if you want a laugh, get him to answer to
all the religions he tries to unite and all on the
same thread.
> >God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
> So true :-)
Ya.
Sentience
On Sun, 24 May 1998 01:29:18 GMT, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores
Vogelsang) wrote:
I previously wrote:
>>A nice try at ignoring my earlier question, however you have failed to
>>furnish us with one single quote from the Qur'an which says that
>>Muhammad (PBUH) acknowledged that He is one and the *same* person as
>>the Messiah. Please show us clearly where it says this in the Qur'an.
Dolores honestly replied:
> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
>the Christ.
That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
> However, history proves who he was. And there are verses
>in the Koran that tell us that he was that Messenger. In fact, he did
>say that he was a Messenger.
I agree with this 100%. There is ample evidence within Islamic sources
showing us that Muhammad (PBUH) is a Prophet & Messenger. That was one
of my points (previously) that what you said (in regards to
Jesus=Muhammad) was not correct if we go back to the original sources.
A Messenger, does not equal Jesus, (nor does it make them one and the
same person) there is a lot more to it than that. There were many
Prophets/Messengers in the Hebrew Writings (and the Qur'an also agrees
with this) but none of them were Jesus, the Messiah etc, and that
includes Noah. If you examine Hebrew theology closely and eschatology
(either Jewish, Christian or Islamic) you would know this. More on
this in a later post.
> "Prophet Muhammed could not read or write even after he was
>chosen as a Prophet. What he read were the revelations given to him
>from the Akashic Records.
Here we have another problem, does the Qur'an (or even the Hadith's)
mention the Akashik records? You will not find such a reference hence
once again this is an added interpretation which can not be
substantiated if we use the texts themselves. Both the Hadith's and
the Holy Qur'an plainly teach that Muhammad received this revelation
via the Angel. [Surah 2:97] See below :
> Also it should be noticed that in the Surah "Ornaments of Gold
>(Az-Zukhruf)" it is clearly mentioned that "It" (the Koran) is an
>"essential part of the" Akashic Records ("Eternal Table ") but not all
>of it." (THOTH, Readings (The Koran), Tablet 1:14-15)
In context the table spread (which is elsewhere and not an accurate
translation) is referring to the PREVIOUS revelations as the Qur'an
makes quite clear.
And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in
dignity), full of wisdom.
[Surah 43:4]
What! have We given them a Book before this, to which they are holding
fast?
Nay! they say: "We found our fathers following a certain religion, and
we do guide ourselves by their footsteps."
[Surah 43:21-22]
Day, this is a Glorious Qur'an,
(Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!
[Surah 85:21-22]
Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the
(revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went
before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-
[Surah 2:97]
Notice it is Gabriel who brings the revelation, Muhammad (PBUH) does
not access it directly nor is there any mention of Akishik records.
Further more it is a confirmation of *what went before* and is said to
be the LAST and FINAL Testament. The Qur'an confirms the previous
scriptures according to its own words, but equally it makes it plain
that there are to be no other scriptures AFTER the Qur'an. For
instance :
...This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My
favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
[Surah 5:3]
This verse makes it very clear that it was perfected (though the
English is terrible in this translation) and it is a perfection which
does not only pertain to the past but for *all times*.
> Akashic Records can be seen as the memory which remains in the
>Universal Mind. Whoever places his mind in tune with the Universal
>Mind can receive the truth of all things which happened in the past,
>"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock and it
>shall be opened unto you [Matthew 7:7] (THOTH, Tablet 1:10)
Again can you please show us where the word Akashic is found in the
Bible & Qur'an? Or is this another added interpretation?
>>>>Pray tell; what then is this sacred name which has never changed?
> This is the sacred name of the Father and the Son. It cannot
>be uttered in the manifested world. It is given by this one (Messiah,
>First/Only Begotten Son of God, Messenger, Major Manifestation,
>whatever name - this one who is sent again and again by God and who
>opens the seals - the Spirit of God on earth) to his disciples.
Then its not really a name then is it? Where does it say in the Bible
that there will be a sacred name of the Father and the Son which
cannot be uttered in the manifested world?
> Heaven and Pure Consciousness is the same. And again, the
>exact term "Pure Consciousness" is not used in the Bible.
Exactly my point! It doesn't say this, it is an added interpretation
to explain away why your messiah didn't come back in the way the Bible
said the True Messiah would.
Now finally we are getting somewhere, the next question then is where
does it say in the Bible that Heaven = Pure Consciousness? Once again
if you can't find this (and you won't) it is another foreign
interpretation which is artificially placed to explain away what the
Bible has to say for itself, hence if one uses the Bible to interpret
itself your messiah simply could never be the True Messiah.
Likewise the same applies to the Qur'an and Hadith's, using their own
writings to interpret themselves things become very clear.
Problems only begin when we try to make verses say what they were
never intended to say, or try to mix foreign terms and interpretations
to a book which has no need for it and in many cases can not be
harmonized with these other concepts (if we want to be honest that
is).
Student.
Sentience
On Sun, 24 May 1998 11:30:46 GMT, "John P. Boatwright"
<sa...@teleport.com> wrote:
Thanks for the information.
Sincerely Student.
Sentience
I previously wrote:
>>A Messenger, does not equal Jesus,
Dolores answered:
> Of course, you know that I don't agree with you on the above.
>The Baha'i teachings also teach the Oneness of this Manifestation.
Naturally you can't because it disagrees with your messiah's
interpretations. You can not even show us where it says this in the
Qur'an or the Bible so you pick up the Bahai interpretation and try to
apply it to your own messiah whilst attempting to fit it in with the
Old & New Testament as well as the Qur'an & Hadiths. Sorry not
compatible.
> Wasn't he told by Gabriel to read? If Gabriel told Prophet
>Muhammed the revelation, why did he tell him to read?
> Again we have a "word" problem. It is not called Akashic
>Records in the Koran. It is called the book of records. See Surah
>Defrauding (At-Tatfif) 7-8 and 18-20
Again you are trying to use another term 'Akashic' and apply it to
Islam, different system of belief, different way of looking at things,
hence not compatible, and it does not say that the Qur'an is right up
there along with the Hindu books, and every other revelation, that is
supposed to be amongst these so called records. [More on this below]
The revelations which were said to come before the Qur'an were
'MONOTHEISTIC' ones not polytheistic in nature. another sharp contrast
between the Akishik records and the Qur'an's understanding of what
revelations etc are actually with Allah.
> "The records of the transgressor are kept in Sijjin.
> How would you know what Sijjin is?
> It is a book of records."
>
> "The records of the righteous are kept in Iliyin.
> How would you know what Iliyin is?
> It is a book of records."
The records of ones deeds (good or bad) is nothing like what you are
trying to palm of as a library (for want of a better name) of so
called revelations by other religions which are contrary in nature
where even some of the basic fundamentals of belief differ as I have
pointed out to you before.
The whole purpose of these records within Islam is for judgement where
a record is proven of what good and bad things the person has done in
their life. You try to twist it (once again and try to make it mean
something else) into suddenly being a place where all the Sacred Books
(Revelations etc) are kept.
Remember what is the purpose of these records? To send down further
books and revelations? To send down contradictions at a later stage?
No in this context it is for judgement before Allah.
Likewise the Book of Life that is in the Bible, I don't doubt that you
will try to twist that one around also, those not in it are lost, no
mention anywhere of there being other religious writings is there?
>>...This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My
>>favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
>>
>>[Surah 5:3]
> Wish you could have follow this argument as it went on in the
>Baha'i and Islamic newsgroups a few months ago. These posts showed how
>the followers of the Messenger take his universal Message, a Message
>from Spirit that could never divide, and make of it something that
>could never come from Spirit, a divider of the brethren.
Just furthers my point, different religion, different internal context
(and understanding) because each messenger is a **different person**
bringing a different message. Some try to harmonize the messages
(which does not work) whilst others just go on their own way, both
results are pretty much the same; a new sect is born claiming to have
it all.
Because of your mistaken belief that all these messages came from the
same 'spirit that could never divide' coupled with your wrong belief
that all these people are really one and the same person its no wonder
that you try to excuse the obvious divisions which you see you before
you, having to blame it all on the followers of each religion because
the facts say otherwise and the same facts contradict what your
messiah is saying. Hmm another pattern here I see. Doesn't fit in
with your messiah's words then just re-interpret it or blame it on
someone else :-)
With each 'new message' that came, division also followed because they
are different people, bringing different messages, how simple it
really is when you just read the scriptures (and history) as they are
without any added interpretations to them.
> Those of the Koran shared many more verses than what you have
>provided, to prove their point that the Koran is the final word. The
>Baha'is, who are also very familiar with the Koran, posted verses that
>showed more was to come.
Naturally they would post more (and good on them), I mean how big do
you want my posts to get? And did those discussions go anywhere? No
they did not because as I have maintained all along different
messengers, different messages, different religions.
Likewise I am still going through what the Bahai's had to say about
you (along with what the Buddhists say) and according to them you are
clearly in error. They pointed ut your errors which as per usual you
refused to accept - oh that's right your messiah can't be wrong can he
eh eh. -everyone else is-
I will search what the Muslims say a bit later on.
Even here the 'Bible' believing Christians have clearly pointed out
your errors in regards to the Second coming of the True Messiah but
still you choose to ignore them, heck some of them made it so clear
for you that even a child would understand it.
> Of course, each says what they have is it, and each claims to
>have the full and final truth from God. God says different in the
>Bible, the Book of the Revelation where He tells us that He will be a
>mystery until the seventh seal is opened.
Well if your messiah's interpretation is right (and it is not) then
you just made the so called mystery become even more of a mystery. You
still haven't answered my other post on this, is the name of Jesus &
Muhammad (PBUH) death? Does Hell (Hades) follow them around? Talk
about ridiculous interpretations.
> Now, with THOTH, God is no longer a mystery. We can solve
>these arguments for those who are not blinded to the truth, who are
>not attached to their Messenger,
So don't be attached to Jesus, don't be attached to Muhammad just get
attached to this other self made messiah yeah sure. Just cast all your
scriptures away and read them through the eyes of this messiah's
interpretations (which are wrong anyway) Ahem excuse me for minute
while I chuckle here.
Naturally you must add a condition don't be attached to Jesus,
Muhammad (PBUH) Baha'u'llah etc because if you are, you will not see
the truth. Sure that really makes sense :-)
>who can see that the Messenger is
>One, One who has come many times,
Naturally who can see it when there is simply not one verse in the
Bible and Qur'an which says this, in fact the Qur'an and Hadith's say
quite the opposite as I have already explained to you.
>whose followers have created
>religions around what Spirit revealed, and lost sight of the Message.
> THOTH takes us back to the original revelations that God gave
>to His Messenger. These Messages do not divide, they unify.
Another glaring error, they do divide and have done so ever since the
first one came along (except possibly Hinduism & its sects) the minute
one of these messengers makes a proclamation of their faith
immediately there is a division between the believers in it and those
who do not accept it. Anyone can plainly see that.
Your book does not take us back to the original revelations it
attempts to bring them together through a serious twisting of the
'original Scriptures' because some religions clearly are not
compatible if you want to maintain a belief in the scriptures (which
are all unique within themselves.)
You have done the same, just added another sect, the very opposite of
unifying. Just think if you didn't exist there would be one less sect
to deal with, hence less debate, less confusion etc. So yes the
messages do divide very clearly if you look at this topic honestly.
<snipped Surah 3:87>
The text you quoted does not say that others would follow after the
Seal of the Prophets did it? Likewise what was mentioned in this verse
was nothing like what you are teaching, they are said to be PROPHETS
not manifestations of the TRUE MESSIAH. As you admitted you can not
find a single text which says that Jesus = Noah, Jesus = Muhammad
(PBUH) from the Bible or Qur'an.
Another problem is that the Qur'an makes it very clearly that each one
of these Prophets were DIFFERENT people, Lut/Lot was not Adam etc.
Totally different people.
> There were two other questions regarding the Sacred name of
>the Father and the Son and Pure Consciousness. Let's take these up on
>separate threads, OK? They can be answered as easily as those
>questions answered above.
No problems and lets just hope you don't answer them with so easily
discerned errors this time okay? Try to stick to what the texts
themselves say, try to read the words of these great religions without
the glasses of you messiah on, who knows you may even find the truth
that he is not the messiah at all.
Student.
Sandy Kear
In article <6kd2mh$g...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
>On Mon, 25 May 1998 01:18:22 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
>wrote:
>
>>A Messenger, does not equal Jesus,
>
>The Baha'i teachings also teach the Oneness of this Manifestation.
Well, you do have the right to disagree, but you would be wrong. Both the
Hebrew word malakh and the Greek word aggelos literally mean "messenger". In
instances where these are obviously spiritual or heavenly messengers, the
words are translated as "angel". In fact, they are messenger, though.
So you see, not all messengers from God are Jesus. There are others.
Sandy
Sentience
On Tue, 26 May 1998 20:28:02 GMT, sa...@roundthebend.com (Sandy Kear)
wrote:
>Well, you do have the right to disagree, but you would be wrong. Both the
>Hebrew word malakh and the Greek word aggelos literally mean "messenger". In
>instances where these are obviously spiritual or heavenly messengers, the
>words are translated as "angel". In fact, they are messenger, though.
>
>So you see, not all messengers from God are Jesus. There are others.
Heck I must be getting old :-) I missed that one.
Student.
>Sandy
Eddy
Ed <eddy.m...@tref.nl>
Student,
I personally believe that the visit Muhammad received from
"Djibriel" was an evil spirit, an angel of Satan.
Especially when I read all the negative verses about
christians in the Qur-an. BTW, did you know that
Muhammad suffered from epileptic fits now and then?
And do you know that the original Qur-an has some
Persian words in it? The Muslems claim that the
Qur-an was kept in heaven by Allah, and sent to
Muhammad in Arabic. But there are Persian words in it.
There is even an Islamic professor who said: "Give me a
red pen so I can mark the faults in the Qur-an.
Ed
Dolores Vogelsang
On Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:50 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
wrote:
(snip)
>Remember what is the purpose of these records? To send down further
>books and revelations? To send down contradictions at a later stage?
>No in this context it is for judgement before Allah.
>
>Likewise the Book of Life that is in the Bible, I don't doubt that you
>will try to twist that one around also, those not in it are lost, no
>mention anywhere of there being other religious writings is there?
God is not limited to Christianity, or Islam, or any other
religion, belief, philosophy, or whatever we humans limit ourselves
to. He is All!
Don't limit God. Each religion may speak of these records
using a different name, however, this is the same book. It is the
memory of the Universal Mind. That is why Maitreya tells us that
ultimately it doesn't matter if someone changes the Scriptures because
God will send another Messenger who will read from these records
(Akashic Records, Book of Remembrance, Source of Decrees, etc [the
same book, called by different names], and bring the truth of God back
to humanity.
In THOTH, the Glossary we find:
"Akashic Records (Book of Remembrance, Source of Decrees):
The cosmic records of creation and history; the memory of the
Universal Mind; the records kept of all events in the past and what is
happening or will happen in the universe
It is through these records that God (through His Prophets)
corrects or advances the old revelations. Because of these records,
even if humans change the Scriptures, God will reveal the truth to
those who are chosen to know. Or those who are sincere will have
access to these records as a revelation, by His Grace. "Ask, and it
shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be
opened unto you" (Matthew 7:7).
>
(snip)
>Just furthers my point, different religion, different internal context
>(and understanding) because each messenger is a **different person**
>bringing a different message. Some try to harmonize the messages
>(which does not work) whilst others just go on their own way, both
>results are pretty much the same; a new sect is born claiming to have
>it all.
This Messenger always has it all! God revealed the 3rd
Message, Sacrifice, through Esa the Christ. As he told his followers
much have I to say, but you cannot bear it. That was perfect for
then.
Then God sent Muhammed who revealed the 4th Message,
surrendering and submission. That was perfect for Islam. And if you
will check close you will see that Muhammed said all was not written.
Then God sent the Bab with the Message of the 5th seal,
universalism. That also was perfect for that time and that people.
Also we now had five seals of the seven open and their Messages
revealed and available to humanity. Can you see the Plan of God?
God is revealing the Eternal Divine Path. It is the same God.
There is one book. There is one Anointed One, Christ, Major
Manifestation, Prophet, Messenger, whatever name you want to call him
by, it is the same Spirit of God on earth each time with another part
of the Eternal Divine Path.
>
>Because of your mistaken belief that all these messages came from the
>same 'spirit that could never divide' coupled with your wrong belief
>that all these people are really one and the same person its no wonder
>that you try to excuse the obvious divisions which you see you before
>you, having to blame it all on the followers of each religion because
>the facts say otherwise and the same facts contradict what your
>messiah is saying. Hmm another pattern here I see. Doesn't fit in
>with your messiah's words then just re-interpret it or blame it on
>someone else :-)
Sorry that you cannot see that what Maitreya has brought to
humanity is the final truth, the final part of the Eternal Divine
Path. Don't misunderstand and think we are saying that God's
Messenger will not return. God can do whatever he wants to do. As
mankind loses the Truth of His Plan, the Eternal Divine Path, He will
send His Messenger again and again as long as it is necessary.
>
>With each 'new message' that came, division also followed because they
>are different people, bringing different messages, how simple it
>really is when you just read the scriptures (and history) as they are
>without any added interpretations to them.
Why is it that humanity fights this Truth of God so? It is so
simple. It makes sense. The seven Messages are unified. Here are
seven steps to take to reach Pure Consciousness: Awaken your
spiritual forces, create a proper environment, sacrifice, surrender
and submit to God, become a universalist, follow God's Laws and become
an Elect, Unification. That is all there is to it!
(snip)
>Naturally they would post more (and good on them), I mean how big do
>you want my posts to get? And did those discussions go anywhere? No
>they did not because as I have maintained all along different
>messengers, different messages, different religions.
This is all because of our attachments and desires. Look at
Revelation 19:11-21. E.Highleyman posted to the thread Christ Returns
a few days ago. I answered and posted Maitreya's commentaries on
these verses from THOTH. Maybe you overlooked that post. However,
what Maitreya revealed about those verses is an answer to prayer.
Properly understood, what God revealed can be seen happening right now
on these newsgroups.
>
>Likewise I am still going through what the Bahai's had to say about
>you (along with what the Buddhists say) and according to them you are
>clearly in error. They pointed ut your errors which as per usual you
>refused to accept - oh that's right your messiah can't be wrong can he
>eh eh. -everyone else is-
Sorry you see Maitreya's posts that way. What Maitreya said
was true. There are many Buddhists who know he is correct. Just as
there are many of the other religions who know what he posts is
correct.
He is purifying the religions to bring back the Truth that God
originally revealed to His Messenger. This Messenger has always done
this. It is God's Will. He never questions God's Will, he just does
it. He knows the Plan because he walked the Eternal Divine Path
before the worlds were. He knows this Path now, and he knew the Path
when he Manifested by the command of God each of the times I have
mentioned previously in our posts.
(snip)
>Even here the 'Bible' believing Christians have clearly pointed out
>your errors in regards to the Second coming of the True Messiah but
>still you choose to ignore them, heck some of them made it so clear
>for you that even a child would understand it.
>
If they had it correct, Sentience, they would have recognized
him as he came the many times after Esa to bring the other parts of
the Path. They are still looking for him to come in the clouds and
this will never happen.
Does it make sense to you that - - well first, are you
familiar with the second chapter of II Kings? This is where Elijah
was taken up by a whirlwind into heaven. You see Esa was not the only
one who had a witness when he returned to heaven.
Now the Christians say that because Esa was taken up into
heaven, he does not need to be born of a woman anymore. However, in
II Kings we see that Elijah was also taken up into heaven (with a
witness) and yet he was born through the womb of Elizabeth as John the
Baptist. Esa confirmed that John the Baptist was Elijah.
That's enough for now. These post are way too long. Could we
break them up by subject or whatever? Thanks and God Bless.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Sandy Kear
In article <6kktni$i...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
>On Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:50 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
>wrote:
>(snip)
>
> God is not limited to Christianity, or Islam, or any other
>religion, belief, philosophy, or whatever we humans limit ourselves
>to. He is All!
But you are limited to posting Christian ideologies and writings when you post
onto a Christian newsgroup. You may draw parallels between Christian writings
and others, but insisting on posting things that have no part of Christianity
is downright rude.
Since the teachings of Jesus, according to you, were fine, then the scriptures
that He used (the OT) and the scriptures about Him should also be sufficient
for you to get your point across when you are on the Christian newsgroups.
You are really displaying an appalling lack of sensitivity by coming on to a
Christian newsgroup and announcing that Christianity is limiting.
> Sorry you see Maitreya's posts that way. What Maitreya said
>was true. There are many Buddhists who know he is correct. Just as
>there are many of the other religions who know what he posts is
>correct.
Is that why you have so many supporters in all the newsgroups you post in?
From what I've seen, Joseph has been kicked out of nearly all the religious
newsgroups because of his rather nasty reaction to pointing out his frequent
errors and his belligerent attitude with off-topic posts.
In fact, when the Buddhists got together in order to get his incorrect and
off-topic posts off their groups, they started sending Joseph back his own
posts with requests to stop posting in their group. Joseph's response was to
have a snit and send the requests back with 25K attachments.
> He is purifying the religions to bring back the Truth that God
>originally revealed to His Messenger.
Care to explain how an atheist comes to be chosen as God's chosen Messenger?
Oh, and don't go off on one of your little tangents about how this is
"taken out of context". I've posted the bit where Joseph states he was an
atheist (that is, he believed there was no god at all), and it does NOT mean
that he just didn't believe the particular image being presented to him at the
time.
Sandy
Sentience
>>Remember what is the purpose of these records? To send down further
>>books and revelations? To send down contradictions at a later stage?
>>No in this context it is for judgement before Allah.
>>
>>Likewise the Book of Life that is in the Bible, I don't doubt that you
>>will try to twist that one around also, those not in it are lost, no
>>mention anywhere of there being other religious writings is there?
>
> God is not limited to Christianity, or Islam, or any other
>religion, belief, philosophy, or whatever we humans limit ourselves
>to. He is All!
The above was written to bring out that the interpretation you gave in
regards to the Books with Allah were not -again purely using the
internal evidences- to be misapplied to mean the 'Akishik records'
which could/would contain pagan teachings, satanism, occult material
and polytheism right there alongside the Qur'an which is strictly
Monotheistic.
You do not have one single shred of evidence by using the Qur'an (or
even the Hadith's) to show that these books are referring to
polytheistic religions. Now to make it very simple again please show
us EXACTLY where the Qur'an tells us that these books contain the
'revelation of Krishna etc?' Where is your proof from the books
themselves? Again I wait for you to answer, with a direct quote
please.
Your above answer is a blanket statement which states in part the
obvious, whilst misrepresenting the facts of Christianity & Islam and
opening the gates of personal interpretation of these various
Scriptures.
For instance if you are really a Christian then you do not need
another revelation, the Bible contains it all.
Likewise with Islam; a Muslim holds to the Qur'an and the Sunna that
they contain it all and there is no need for anything else.
If we were to follow your reasoning then there is no basis to judge
the right from the wrong (remember God can not be limited) anyone can
make up, or invent a religion of their choosing. Pretty much what your
messiah has already attempted.
> Don't limit God.
Have you ever considered that perhaps you are limiting God by
following a man who claims to be what he is not, and can not provide
one shred of proof for his claims?
A man which consistently re-interprets the prophecies of Christianity,
the Bahai's and the Buddhists because they clearly do not foretell or
talk about him? When a scripture speaks clearly on something he
attempts to cloud (in confusion) the issue by adding his own
interpretation so that it can be made to appear that they are talking
about him?
I find that you have limited God and made Him into a man born of a
woman (not a virgin), a man which is only that, a man, nothing
special, nothing divine and sadly a man who will die in his old age
never having done anything in this world except attempt to start up a
new sect. No world peace will come by his efforts but then again I
don't doubt that every (good?) event which is happening in the world
he attempts to ascribe to his influence. (Many already do this.)
>Each religion may speak of these records
>using a different name, however, this is the same book. It is the
>memory of the Universal Mind.
And still you can not even show us where the Bible and the Qur'an
actually say this, you must rely on your messiah's personal
interpretation (which he claims is revelation) and that's all. No
proof, absolutely nothing.
The Qur'an makes it very clear that (previous) Monotheistic religions
are from Allah, Polytheistic religions (ie Hinduism etc) are said to
be from shatan/satan, such people are Kafir, Heathen, Pagans etc and
we all know what Islam thinks about such faiths.
However Judaism & Christianity are classed as 'people of the book' who
had the revelation of Allah and that revelation consisted mainly of a
MONOTHEISTIC revelation. Read up on your history and you will know
this. While your checking the history out read up also on the Islamic
teaching of monotheism.
You make a statement above which is once again a major distortion of
what the Scriptures themselves actually say. If you can't even get the
basics of ones faith and what the Scriptures have to say for
themselves right; how can we trust anything else that you say?
>That is why Maitreya tells us that
>ultimately it doesn't matter if someone changes the Scriptures because
>God will send another Messenger who will read from these records
Again you have no proof that the writings were changed, I have yet to
see the day where Islam is proven to have altered their writings (or
lost some), likewise I have seen some brilliant scholarship amongst
the Christians in regards to the Bibles preservation.
Joe (your messiah) has to say what you just said, because once again
like all the prophecies that he alters it makes his position appear
fulfilled in his own eyes and the eyes of those who follow him. It is
so obvious.
Text doesn't fit == Change it.
Prophecy doesn't fit == Alter it into something else.
History is read wrong == re-write it.
Beliefs of the people are contrary == the people corrupt the faith
See the pattern?
>(Akashic Records, Book of Remembrance, Source of Decrees, etc [the
>same book, called by different names], and bring the truth of God back
>to humanity.
It is not at all the same, two different cultural terms, two different
meanings, two different background settings, two completely different
ideologies/philosophy/theology and you are trying to tell its the same
book called by different names?
You can prove your point right now by giving me just ONE verse in the
Qur'an which portrays that Akishik = The books that are with Allah.
Here is another one for you:
Show us all here just ONE Surah where Allah has permitted polytheism,
or agrees to its practice.
I can't believe you say such things against all the facts, the
Scriptures themselves, and history and still you refuse to acknowledge
the obvious.
> In THOTH, the Glossary we find:
> "Akashic Records (Book of Remembrance, Source of Decrees):
>The cosmic records of creation and history; the memory of the
>Universal Mind; the records kept of all events in the past and what is
>happening or will happen in the universe
Forget thoth for a minute and try to be honest enough to read the
scriptures for themselves without joes interpretations and then tell
us where you actually found the verses I asked for above.
It is so easy to write something AFTER the event and then try to
interpret it into your own scheme of things, so how about going back
to the books themselves and letting them speak for themselves free
from joes influence.
> It is through these records that God (through His Prophets)
>corrects or advances the old revelations. Because of these records,
>even if humans change the Scriptures, God will reveal the truth to
>those who are chosen to know. Or those who are sincere will have
>access to these records as a revelation, by His Grace. "Ask, and it
>shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be
>opened unto you" (Matthew 7:7).
All said without one shred of proof from the Bible & Qur'an
themselves, how easy it is to say 'well this is what it really means',
how easy it is to say that 'the followers went astray', but how hard
it is for you to prove your words using those two books themselves.
BTW if you read Matthew 7:7 (without your messiah's interpretation of
these words) the meaning would be very clear to you. There is no
connection between these words in Matthew and the supposed 'Akishik
records'. Again he/you make a connection which does not exist
anywhere but in the imagination of the person that said it. If I am
wrong please show me in the Bible (without your additions) where it
clearly makes this connection.
>>Just furthers my point, different religion, different internal context
>>(and understanding) because each messenger is a **different person**
>>bringing a different message. Some try to harmonize the messages
>>(which does not work) whilst others just go on their own way, both
>>results are pretty much the same; a new sect is born claiming to have
>>it all.
> This Messenger always has it all! God revealed the 3rd
>Message, Sacrifice, through Esa the Christ. As he told his followers
>much have I to say, but you cannot bear it. That was perfect for
>then.
So you are trying to tell everyone, but the Scriptures themselves DO
NOT say this. The presentation you lay before us is a God that says
one thing, does another, contradicts himself, gives messages which
conflict etc etc.
Now lets get back to the context of the partial verse that you quoted
and ask a few questions:
When was this said, to whom was it said and why was it said?
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
[John 16:12]
This was said *before His death and resurrection* so there were many
things which were still to be said and even witnessed. If you had
bothered to read just a little bit further on He says:
A little while and you will not see Me; and again a little while and
you will see Me, because I go to the Father.
"Then some of His disciples said amongst themselves, "What is this
that He says to us, ...."
[John 16:16-17]
Bingo there is your answer in simple black and white, they didn't even
know 100% what this resurrection was about, they didn't understand His
words there and then, but what happened? They fully understood His
words later on when it came to pass, furthermore the True Messiah
continued to reveal Himself even after death, by an appearance -one in
particular- where Thomas felt His wounds (now that is proof - unlike
merely vague prophecies and number juggling) He continued on revealing
His will to Paul and the other Christians. See when you study the
context it is very clear.
Taking one verse out of context (or even stringing a whole lot
together out of context) and adding a psuedo-spiritual meaning to it
you can make it say anything that you want it to say.
> Then God sent Muhammed who revealed the 4th Message,
>surrendering and submission. That was perfect for Islam. And if you
>will check close you will see that Muhammed said all was not written.
So now are you saying the Qur'an is not complete by Muhammad's (PBUH)
own admission? Show us please where it says this in the Qur'an that it
is not all 'perfected, 0r complete' in regards to the revelation.
Muhammad did not open any seal, that is evident, you still haven't
answered my other posts in regards to this, yet you try to maintain
that he has against the proof from history and from the book of
Revelation itself.
> Then God sent the Bab with the Message of the 5th seal,
>universalism. That also was perfect for that time and that people.
>Also we now had five seals of the seven open and their Messages
>revealed and available to humanity. Can you see the Plan of God?
> God is revealing the Eternal Divine Path. It is the same God.
>There is one book. There is one Anointed One, Christ, Major
>Manifestation, Prophet, Messenger, whatever name you want to call him
>by, it is the same Spirit of God on earth each time with another part
>of the Eternal Divine Path.
And once again you repeat the same thing over and over almost like you
must affirm this error to yourself in order to make it real. You could
not show any of us one single text within the Qur'an which said:
Jesus = Muhammad, show us the verse so that we may ponder it.
>>Because of your mistaken belief that all these messages came from the
>>same 'spirit that could never divide' coupled with your wrong belief
>>that all these people are really one and the same person its no wonder
>>that you try to excuse the obvious divisions which you see you before
>>you, having to blame it all on the followers of each religion because
>>the facts say otherwise and the same facts contradict what your
>>messiah is saying. Hmm another pattern here I see. Doesn't fit in
>>with your messiah's words then just re-interpret it or blame it on
>>someone else :-)
>
> Sorry that you cannot see that what Maitreya has brought to
>humanity is the final truth, the final part of the Eternal Divine
>Path. Don't misunderstand and think we are saying that God's
>Messenger will not return. God can do whatever he wants to do. As
>mankind loses the Truth of His Plan, the Eternal Divine Path, He will
>send His Messenger again and again as long as it is necessary.
Perhaps you should be sorry that you can not see what the texts say
for themselves; it is really sad when you are so far into error that
you must cover it up with more errors.
Your own words prove my point (remember my earlier post?) you said
that this joe 'has brought humanity the FINAL truth, the FINAL part of
the Eternal Divine Path...' there you have it in your own words, you
are a sect, you have the final truth, others that don't; obviously are
in error, hence not able to see what you see or believe what you
believe. This is called distinction, (I am right - or I have the
truth- you are wrong - or you cannot see it-) again the marks of a
sect.
>>With each 'new message' that came, division also followed because they
>>are different people, bringing different messages, how simple it
>>really is when you just read the scriptures (and history) as they are
>>without any added interpretations to them.
>
> Why is it that humanity fights this Truth of God so?
Have you considered the obvious once again? That it may not be the
truth? Have you ever considered that those who know more about their
own faith, religion. scriptures than; you, joe and the rest in your
sect may speak out because you are distorting their writings?
This is a classical sect scenario you place before everyone; the
concept of 'hey we have the truth' ' if you can't see it well ....'
and the usual excuses follow.
You say it is the truth, the Scriptures contradict you and say
otherwise, think about it and you may learn the reason as to why so
many dispute with you. Another proof that you are not bringing peace
and unity instead you are just creating another sect and one more
division amongst a multitude of such sects.
> It is so
>simple. It makes sense.
If you honestly think it is so simple and it makes sense then why
can't you apply this same type of thinking in trying to read the
scriptures without joes interpretations.
Reading something like the Messiah is coming in the clouds, every eye
shall see him, the Madhi is coming in two yellow robes when He
descends, that a resurrection takes place with His coming, that He
will rule from Zion, that His feet shall touch the mount and it will
be split into two etc is a very easy process, but then joe comes along
and tries to add some of the most funny interpretations to the verses
(see the article I did on your commentary of revelation -part one-)
making a simple thing confusing and out rightly ridiculous in cases.
Yet you tell us its so simple and it makes sense then how about
applying this to others and seeing that indeed what their writings
contain make perfectly good sense without joes additions.
>The seven Messages are unified.
According to joes interpretation, but nothing has been unified, I mean
seriously look around you, I don't see unity here at all, Christian
fighting Christian, Muslim fighting Muslim, your sect in the middle
somewhere, if anything I will say one thing for joe, at least he is
trying to make something happen (more than the rest of us can claim in
all honesty) I think he distorts the scriptures and reads history
wrong, but I will give him this much he is TRYING to do something. He
puts the rest of us to shame on this point.
>Here are
>seven steps to take to reach Pure Consciousness: Awaken your
>spiritual forces, create a proper environment, sacrifice, surrender
>and submit to God, become a universalist, follow God's Laws and become
>an Elect, Unification. That is all there is to it!
I actually agree with this *shock horror* but I believe this can be
done through tolerance of other belief systems (I know I'll get shot
down on this point) but seriously people can and are doing this whilst
still keeping their own respective faiths.
It doesn't mean we become yes men/women we will still debate on points
that we all differ on, likewise I believe the system joe is trying to
bring in is an artificial system based on his own teachings and ideas,
it will never work as long as people can read and understand their
respective faith and Scriptures, it can not work where free will is
evident, that is firmly why so many await the true Messiah because
only He can MAKE these things happen.
How does a person even debate against the true Messiah, He shows us
His wounds, He comes from the sky, the dead are raised up before our
very eyes, how could any sane person say He is not who He says he is?
Even the hardest Atheist will have to grudgingly admit that He is at
least someone special when these things come about as the scriptures
foretell. .
>>Naturally they would post more (and good on them), I mean how big do
>>you want my posts to get? And did those discussions go anywhere? No
>>they did not because as I have maintained all along different
>>messengers, different messages, different religions.
>
> This is all because of our attachments and desires.
And once again what about your own attachments? What about joes own
desires? You are a separate sect, would joe be willing to walk away
from it all and become truly detached? Could you? With the same hand
you brush the rest of us which do not accept his teachings is that
very same hand that is on you.
Sadly you see the attachment that is on everyone else but not the
attachment that you have to him or his writings, or the attachment
that he has to his own claims. Whats the difference? Strictly speaking
we are then all in the same boat.
>>Likewise I am still going through what the Bahai's had to say about
>>you (along with what the Buddhists say) and according to them you are
>>clearly in error. They pointed out your errors which as per usual you
>>refused to accept - oh that's right your messiah can't be wrong can he
>>eh eh. -everyone else is-
>
> Sorry you see Maitreya's posts that way. What Maitreya said
>was true. There are many Buddhists who know he is correct. Just as
>there are many of the other religions who know what he posts is
>correct.
What Buddhists were they? I didn't notice any which agreed to joes
interpretation, and definitely none agreed to him being the Blessed
Buddha. I was reading through what Joseph Crea (going from memory) and
others had to say and a lot of what they said made sense.
I don't recall any Buddhist agreeing with joes version -but I could be
wrong- *sigh* back to wading through the posts I've collected :-(
> He is purifying the religions to bring back the Truth that God
>originally revealed to His Messenger. This Messenger has always done
>this. It is God's Will. He never questions God's Will, he just does
>it. He knows the Plan because he walked the Eternal Divine Path
>before the worlds were. He knows this Path now, and he knew the Path
>when he Manifested by the command of God each of the times I have
>mentioned previously in our posts.
All said without evidence. The Messiah that comes will have undeniable
and indisputable evidence. The messiah you are talking about is no
different to anyone else that is alive now.
>>Even here the 'Bible' believing Christians have clearly pointed out
>>your errors in regards to the Second coming of the True Messiah but
>>still you choose to ignore them, heck some of them made it so clear
>>for you that even a child would understand it.
>>
> If they had it correct, Sentience, they would have recognized
>him as he came the many times after Esa to bring the other parts of
>the Path. They are still looking for him to come in the clouds and
>this will never happen.
The obvious Delores, try to ponder the obvious, perhaps it was because
the Bible teaches no such thing as what you are claiming above.
> Does it make sense to you that - - well first, are you
>familiar with the second chapter of II Kings?
Sure am :-) oops I know this one :-)
>This is where Elijah
>was taken up by a whirlwind into heaven. You see Esa was not the only
>one who had a witness when he returned to heaven.
Where did I state that the True Messiah 'was not the only one who had
a witness when he returned to heaven?'
> Now the Christians say that because Esa was taken up into
>heaven, he does not need to be born of a woman anymore. However, in
>II Kings we see that Elijah was also taken up into heaven (with a
>witness) and yet he was born through the womb of Elizabeth as John the
>Baptist. Esa confirmed that John the Baptist was Elijah.
This is a usual argument which many have answered over and over, John
the Baptist was not Elijah, he came in THE SPIRIT of Elijah, tell me
what this means within the Greek text (and take special note of the
word 'is' when you look into this text.) either you are being
dishonest here in trying to say this or joe has not told you the truth
about the this subject. But I'll wait till you answer this because I
want to see how honestly you handle the answer when you properly study
the scriptures involved and find that John does not equal Elijah.
> That's enough for now. These post are way too long. Could we
>break them up by subject or whatever? Thanks and God Bless.
Could do.
Student.
afshin.a...@utoronto.ca
Peace,
Maybe of interest to this post would be this web-site dedicated to the Islamic
angle on bahai claims.
Answering Bahaullah
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/index.htm
Peace
Afshin Afrashteh
In article <356b4aed...@news.wantree.com.au>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Joseph M. Emmanuel
> You
>still haven't answered my other post on this, is the name of Jesus &
>Muhammad (PBUH) death? Does Hell (Hades) follow them around? Talk
>about ridiculous interpretations.
"And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come
and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a
pair of balances in his hand." (Rev. 6:5)
<17>In this stage the seal refers to the third seal in The Great Sign, the
cross ( ), which is the symbol of Christianity. <18>The cross itself is
representative of a balance if you add the scales on the two sides ( ).
<19>The black horse symbolizes the death of the devil (false ego, lower
nature) in this stage of development of the human, <20>and the pair of
balances is the symbol of equality. With Christ's teachings and the
understanding of his teachings, a person should come to the point where he
can overcome the devil (which is the attraction to Maya and/or false ego)
and be ready to sacrifice all of individual self for establishing the
Kingdom Of Heaven (balances). He should hunger for righteousness and try to
bring equity on earth.
"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of
wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou
hurt not the oil and the wine." (Rev. 6:6)
<21>He who has the pair of balances has come to make sure that equity has
been established in the human race. Therefore, the phrase, "A measure of
wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny" means to make
sure that the laws which have been set up are followed and no one is
exploited, and all will have the basic necessities. <22>The phrase, "and
see thou hurt not the oil and the wine" means: Make sure that those who
are worthy to have more than the basic necessities of life are not being
hurt. Whosoever contributes more to society should receive more.
<23>Spiritual contribution is superior to intellectual, and intellectual
contribution is superior to physical. <24>Another meaning is that the
Chosen Ones (Paravipras) will establish this equity on earth. These are
the ones that have the pair of balances in themselves (Kingdom Of Heaven
within).
"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth
beast say, Come and see." (Rev. 6:7)
<25>The fourth seal is the fourth symbol in The Great Sign ( ), which is
the last part of the symbol OM ( ). <26>It is the symbol of Islam, which
was brought by Prophet Muhammed. With this seal, the four horsemen are
finished.
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was
Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the
fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with
death, and with the beasts of the earth." (Rev. 6:8)
<27>The pale horse means a balance in the revelation in this stage, a
balance between spirit and matter. It is neither white, nor red, nor
black, but a balance between all these extremes. That is why in Islam the
material world and spiritual world both are considered equally important,
and many laws were set up for social relationships.
<28>"And his name that sat on him was Death," means that the one who sat on
him brings the death of Maya, because in this stage, you will enter the
fifth chackras which is the abode of overcoming all unnecessary material
longings.
<29>"And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to
kill with sword,..." Islam covered the fourth part of the earth through
the concept of "Holy Wars." They established themselves by the power of
war "with sword," which was given them. If this power had not been given
to them, they could not have been able to do it.
>Another glaring error, they do divide and have done so ever since the
>first one came along (except possibly Hinduism & its sects) the minute
>one of these messengers makes a proclamation of their faith
>immediately there is a division between the believers in it and those
>who do not accept it. Anyone can plainly see that.
This is not unscriptural, as many will reject the final teachings. They
are the one, Bible says, will be thrown to the lake of fire! This karma
shows that they are not ready. They will be kept from reincarnating for
along time (lake of fire, will stay in ignorance).
We are not creating the division. It is human who has created it. God is
one, how can He be the source of division. Spirit is One, it unifies, ego
separates, and any believe that separates is from ego (human)!
One God, One World, One Humanity
Unity Of All Under One God
http://www.maitreya.org (In English and French)
Joseph M. Emmanuel
>On Sun, 24 May 1998 01:29:18 GMT, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores
>Vogelsang) wrote:
>
>I previously wrote:
>
>>>A nice try at ignoring my earlier question, however you have failed to
>>>furnish us with one single quote from the Qur'an which says that
>>>Muhammad (PBUH) acknowledged that He is one and the *same* person as
>>>the Messiah. Please show us clearly where it says this in the Qur'an.
>
>Dolores honestly replied:
>
>> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
>>the Christ.
>
>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to be
revealed to humanity, in that time. The Truth of the mater is that He is
the first and the last, the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega.
he is the One who has opened the Seven Seals, the Major religions on earth,
The Eternal Divine Path. Indeed Adam, many of the Prophets of the Old
Testament and many Manifestation of God in Hinduism and other religion,
Christ , Muhammed, Bab, etc. are all the same Spirit. All Great Revelation
has come through/by Him, One God, the only God the Revealer of His Mystery!
That is also why: No one goes to the Father/God but through Him (Eternal
Divine Path, The Seven Seals, His Path, Mystery and Revelations)!
One God, One World, One Humanity
Sandy Kear
>
>>Dolores replied:
>>
>>> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
>>>the Christ.
>>
>>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
>>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
>
>It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to be
>revealed to humanity, in that time. The Truth of the mater is that He is
The Truth of the matter is that Dolores stated as fact that Mohammed and Jesus
were the same person, when in fact she had no holy writings to back up her
statement. In short, she was misrepresenting your dogmas/teachings as being
factual, when there is nothing upon which to base that claim.
Sandy
gen...@usit.net
>On Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:50 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience) wrote:
>
>> You
>>still haven't answered my other post on this, is the name of Jesus &
>>Muhammad (PBUH) death? Does Hell (Hades) follow them around? Talk
>>about ridiculous interpretations.
>
>Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the
>fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with
>death, and with the beasts of the earth." (Rev. 6:8)
><27>The pale horse means a balance in the revelation in this stage, a
>balance between spirit and matter. It is neither white, nor red, nor
>black, but a balance between all these extremes. That is why in Islam the
>material world and spiritual world both are considered equally important,
>and many laws were set up for social relationships.
><28>"And his name that sat on him was Death," means that the one who sat on
>him brings the death of Maya, because in this stage, you will enter the
>fifth chackras which is the abode of overcoming all unnecessary material
>longings.
><29>"And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to
>kill with sword,..." Islam covered the fourth part of the earth through
>the concept of "Holy Wars." They established themselves by the power of
>war "with sword," which was given them. If this power had not been given
>to them, they could not have been able to do it.
>
>>Another glaring error, they do divide and have done so ever since the
>>first one came along (except possibly Hinduism & its sects) the minute
>>one of these messengers makes a proclamation of their faith
>>immediately there is a division between the believers in it and those
>>who do not accept it. Anyone can plainly see that.
>
>This is not unscriptural, as many will reject the final teachings. They
>are the one, Bible says, will be thrown to the lake of fire! This karma
>shows that they are not ready. They will be kept from reincarnating for
>along time (lake of fire, will stay in ignorance).
>
>We are not creating the division. It is human who has created it. God is
>one, how can He be the source of division. Spirit is One, it unifies, ego
>separates, and any believe that separates is from ego (human)!
>
>One God, One World, One Humanity
>Unity Of All Under One God
>http://www.maitreya.org (In English and French)
It is the evil spirit of mankind which also unifies and brings into
oneness of evil. Only the Living God unifies mankind in His Spirit by
His works. You pretend to be God by declaring you and your followers
shall do these works of unification. This is the evil spirit not of
God who does these self works.
The Living God is able to teach mankind His Truth. The true minister
of God declares this matter and teaches the way for man to come to the
Living God to be taught; unified; transformed and saved. This, you do
not teach for you are not of God.
Your followers have been led to believe you are of Christ. You are
not. The true Christ is taught Truth by the Living God which is the
way all of mankind gain knowledge of Truth. You have not taught them
this way, but have taught them to bow down to you and to honor you as
teacher of Truth.
In this you defy and fight against God. Though you use the name of
Jesus of Nazareth for your deception, even renaming him, you neither
honor nor obey his teachings and commandments . You present and teach
a "new way" in your attempts to nullify the teachings of Jesus of
Nazareth, making yourself out to be as God and greater than Jesus of
Nazareth.
There is no new Truth concerning the salvation of mankind. The way has
not changed. You, are a liar and deceiver, teaching lies and
falsehoods concerning the Living God and His true Christs.
The Saviour of God is His Creation in mankind which comes in His Word,
which Word is the anointing of mankind bringing Christ into existence.
Unless mankind receives Christ in this way, he is not saved by God.
When man is anointed by God, he gains knowledge of Truth, beginning as
a little one of God, maturing into the Christ; of which there are many
for as many as are saved by God are of this true Christ; the taught of
and by God.
Not knowing God nor this way of salvation by this true Saviour of God,
you create a new doctrine of a new religion which are the abominable
works of mankind and his wild imagination.
Unification of mankind into the one Spirit of God is by the works of
the Living God alone. Those who are of this Spirit of God teach others
how to receive this Spirit from the Living God. This work you do not
do for you are not of God.
You shall know and understand the reality of consequence of laying
stumbling stones in the path of those seeking God and His salvation.
To such is promised the greater damnation.
Deceivers such as you, are self deluded to where you have no fear of
these consequences promised by God. Absent from your mind is knowledge
and understanding of the reality of God hearing and knowing every word
you speak. In this, man writes the record and "book" of his life.
You shall be held accountable for all you have misled.
DW Suiter
Born Again
2 Corinthians 6:14: "Be ye not unequally yoked with UNBELIEVERS: for what
fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath
light with darkness?
This is a good one:
2 Corinthians 6:17: "Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPERATE,
saith THE LORD, and TOUCH NOT the unclean thing; and I will recieve you."
Born Again (from above that is)
On Tue, 04 Aug 1998 08:23:53 GMT, mait...@email.msn.com (Joseph M. Emmanuel)
wrote:
>On Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:50 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience) wrote:
>
>> You
>>still haven't answered my other post on this, is the name of Jesus &
>>Muhammad (PBUH) death? Does Hell (Hades) follow them around? Talk
>>about ridiculous interpretations.
>
>Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the
>fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with
>death, and with the beasts of the earth." (Rev. 6:8)
><27>The pale horse means a balance in the revelation in this stage, a
>balance between spirit and matter. It is neither white, nor red, nor
>black, but a balance between all these extremes. That is why in Islam the
>material world and spiritual world both are considered equally important,
>and many laws were set up for social relationships.
><28>"And his name that sat on him was Death," means that the one who sat on
>him brings the death of Maya, because in this stage, you will enter the
>fifth chackras which is the abode of overcoming all unnecessary material
>longings.
><29>"And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to
>kill with sword,..." Islam covered the fourth part of the earth through
>the concept of "Holy Wars." They established themselves by the power of
>war "with sword," which was given them. If this power had not been given
>to them, they could not have been able to do it.
>
>>Another glaring error, they do divide and have done so ever since the
>>first one came along (except possibly Hinduism & its sects) the minute
>>one of these messengers makes a proclamation of their faith
>>immediately there is a division between the believers in it and those
>>who do not accept it. Anyone can plainly see that.
>
Dolores Vogelsang
wrote:
>mait...@email.msn.com (Joseph M. Emmanuel)
>>On Mon, 25 May 1998 01:18:22 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience) wrote:
>>
>
>>>Dolores replied:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>>>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
>>>>the Christ.
>>>
>>>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
>>>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
>>
>>It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to be
>>revealed to humanity, in that time. The Truth of the mater is that He is
>
>The Truth of the matter is that Dolores stated as fact that Mohammed and Jesus
>were the same person, when in fact she had no holy writings to back up her
>statement. In short, she was misrepresenting your dogmas/teachings as being
>factual, when there is nothing upon which to base that claim.
>
>Sandy
Hello Sandy,
Of course, I represent the teachings of Maitreya (JME) as
written in THOTH, and the many other literature of the Mission, as
factual. This Revelation came directly from God.
There is a message posted by r.woo...@bigfoot.com on the
alt.religion.bahai newsgroup. The header is: The Atonements and the
Station of Absolute Unity.
I answered this post (a small part of it can now be read by
those subscribing to the alt.religion.christian and the
talk.religion.newage groups) because he said in his post, "As
Baha'u'llah quotes Muhammed saying:
"As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and
words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this
sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from
that of Muhammed and of His holy Book..." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,
page 21)
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
GoldRush
Dolores Vogelsang <dolo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<35e79a47...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
> On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 01:16:03 GMT, sa...@roundthebend.com (Sandy Kear)
> wrote:
>
> >mait...@email.msn.com (Joseph M. Emmanuel)
> >>On Mon, 25 May 1998 01:18:22 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>>Dolores replied:
> >>>
> >>>> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
> >>>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
> >>>>the Christ.
> >>>
> >>>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
> >>>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
> >>
> >>It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to be
> >>revealed to humanity, in that time. The Truth of the mater is that He
is
> >
Dolores:
This is total garbage and lies.
You are warned that you are following a false Christ.
If you choose to continue, you will be accountable
for the blood of every person influenced by this devil.
If this does not strike fear in your heart about your
false teaching and devotion, you deserve the punishment
you will receive.
--
Jim & Ronda Rush
Our WebSite is for Your Insight
visit http://www.mlode.com/~jrrush
John P. Boatwright
>
> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
> am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and
LYING again Dollars???
Let's review:
The >>> FOUR <<< different ways that Joseph M. Emmanuel
has claimed to have opened the "sixth seal" in Revelation:
During the 3rd week in Feb '98:
==============================================================
Joseph M. Emmanuel wrote:
The Sixth Seal came from India, and now we have the
Seventh Seal (The Circle is complete).
==============================================================
Hmm... but JME previously said an A-bomb over Japan was the
sixth seal.
Here let's go down memory lane...
But notice:
ha ha ha...
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
el...@earthlink.net
>>
>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>> am Jesus."
I am sending this to alt.religion.islam
They are in need of a good laugh over there.
Michael
Dolores Vogelsang
Again) wrote:
>On division, which is sometimes ORDERED by God:
>
>2 Corinthians 6:14: "Be ye not unequally yoked with UNBELIEVERS: for what
>fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath
>light with darkness?
>
>This is a good one:
>2 Corinthians 6:17: "Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPERATE,
>saith THE LORD, and TOUCH NOT the unclean thing; and I will recieve you."
>
Born Again,
Can't you discern the difference between the doctrines of Paul
and the True teachings of Esa the Christ?
Look at Luke 9:51-56. The disciples (remember these are
disciples and not masters) said, "Lord, wilt thou that we command fire
to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did??" What
did Christ answer? Did he say, as Paul did, separate yourselves from
these infidels? No, to the contrary. He said, "Ye know not what
manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy
men's lives, but to save them."
Yes, Born Again, believe it, there is a vast difference
between the doctrines of Paul, and the Truth that the Christ brings
from the Father.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Dolores Vogelsang
>> >>>> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>> >>>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
>> >>>>the Christ.
>> >>On Mon, 25 May 1998 01:18:22 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
>> >>>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
>> >>>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
>> >mait...@email.msn.com (Joseph M. Emmanuel)
>> >>It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to be
>> >>revealed to humanity, in that time. The Truth of the mater is that He
>is
>> On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 01:16:03 GMT, sa...@roundthebend.com (Sandy Kear)
>> >The Truth of the matter is that Dolores stated as fact that Mohammed and
>> >Jesus were the same person, when in fact she had no holy writings to back up
>> >her statement. In short, she was misrepresenting your dogmas/teachings as
>> >being factual, when there is nothing upon which to base that claim.
>Dolores Vogelsang <dolo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
>> Of course, I represent the teachings of Maitreya (JME) as
>> written in THOTH, and the many other literature of the Mission, as
>> factual. This Revelation came directly from God.
>> There is a message posted by r.woo...@bigfoot.com on the
>> alt.religion.bahai newsgroup. The header is: The Atonements and the
>> Station of Absolute Unity.
>> I answered this post (a small part of it can now be read by
>> those subscribing to the alt.religion.christian and the
>> talk.religion.newage groups) because he said in his post, "As
>> Baha'u'llah quotes Muhammed saying:
>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>> am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and
>> words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this
>> sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from
>> that of Muhammed and of His holy Book..." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,
>> page 21)
On 8 Aug 1998 04:10:31 GMT, "GoldRush" <jrr...@mlode.com> wrote:
>Dolores:
>This is total garbage and lies.
>You are warned that you are following a false Christ.
>If you choose to continue, you will be accountable
>for the blood of every person influenced by this devil.
>If this does not strike fear in your heart about your
>false teaching and devotion, you deserve the punishment
>you will receive.
Hello GoldRush,
What would strike fear in my heart is if I could not bring
this Good News into the open. Christ is again on earth!
Do you think your words above would have stopped Esa (Jesus)
and his disciples 2,000 years ago, or Prophet Muhammed and his
followers, or the Bab and his followers, etc? God forbid!
The truth is here. You can desire to call down fire from
heaven upon us (just as did the disciples of Esa when they found those
would not agree to follow Esa) however, your answer will be today the
same answer the Christ gave 2,000 years ago: You know not of what
Spirit you are.
Don't be like those who rejected the Christ the many times he
has manifested on earth during the last 2,000 years. You folks reject
the Christ without even making a courtesy check of the evidence.
At least study what has been brought by Maitreya before you
condemn.
We invite all to visit our web site at:
http://www.maitreya.org
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Dolores Vogelsang
>"John P. Boatwright" <sa...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
>>>
>>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>>> am Jesus."
>
>I am sending this to alt.religion.islam
>
>They are in need of a good laugh over there.
>
>Michael
Hello Michael,
Good idea! Only it would be nice if we sent what I posted,
not the one liner that Boatwright took out of context to make it look
like I said those words in quotes.
I posted a partial post I read on the alt.religion.bahai
newsgroup written by r.woodlock where he was quoting Baha'i writers.
Of course, I whole-heartedly agree with, this statement that
Baha'u'llah accredits to Muhammed.
Here is what I posted:
On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 07:17:49 GMT, r.woo...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>'Abdu'l-Baha said:
>
>"Likewise, in the spiritual realm of intelligence and idealism there must be
>a center of illumination, and that center is the everlasting, ever-shining
>Sun, the Word of God. Its lights are the lights of reality which have shone
>upon humanity, illumining the realm of thought and morals, conferring the
>bounties of the divine world upon man. These lights are the cause of the
>education of souls and the source of the enlightenment of hearts, sending
>forth in effulgent radiance the message of the glad tidings of the Kingdom of
>God." (`Abdu'l-Baha: Promulgation of Universal Peace, page 94)
>
>He then goes on to emphasise a very important point. The absolute oneness of
>the Manifestations of God. He writes:
>
>"In the Word of God there is still another unity - the oneness of the
>Manifestations of God, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and
>Baha'u'llah. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful - the one
>reality appearing in its successive Manifestations. For instance, the sun is
>one and the same, but its points of dawning are various."
>(`Abdu'l-Baha: Promulgation of Universal Peace, page 192)
>
>All of the Manifestations be it Abraham or Muhammad, are the Word of God. As
>Baha'u'llah quotes Muhammad saying:
>
>"As to the matter of names, Muhammad, Himself, declared: "I am Jesus." He
>recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and
>testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of
>Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muhammad and of His holy
>Book..." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, page 21)
Thanks Michael
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
glen
made flesh
for Holy
Ground
That God have sanctuary
with
us
Yeshua Messiach Emmanuel Jesus Messiah God is with us Yahshu Messia
Emanuel
Know now:
There is only one Christ.
.
doesn't know that there are *at least* two different Maitreyas being promoted
on the web &/or discussed in the newsgroups. Those who are interested, may wish
to bear this in mind and avoid confusing these two:
===========================================================
One: Also known as Joseph Emmanuel, was born November 8, 1944, in
Tehran, Iran. He's said that he attended Graduate Business school and
after dropping out "learned" that he was the Christ, Maitreya. JE,
Delores, Debbie, & a few others truly believe that JE is the long
awaited Avatar, expected by people of all religions and appear to have
honorable intentions. They claim that JE is the Maitreya, who Benjamin
Creme spoke & wrote about. They have some pretty good spiritual teachings.
"When you join the Mission formally, the minimum requirement is the financial
help of 10% of your gross income (tithe)."
Their web site:<http://www.maitreya.org>
=======
The other: Prefers to be known simply as 'the Teacher', is known by many
names... His personal name is Maitreya. His emergence is being
documented by Share International, a non-profit, non-governmental
organization in association with the Department of Public Information at
the United Nations. Benjamin Creme has been writing & speaking about
Him for more than 20 years. Creme is the British Chief editor of Share
International Magazine. The Maitreya who Creme writes & speaks about
has known exactly who He is for at least 2000 years. He will inspire
mankind to rebuild the world based upon the principles of sharing, justice,
brotherhood and love. There are sites about His gradual emergence in 18
languages.
Share International's site: <http://www.shareintl.org/>
New Infopacks with details: <http://www.shareintl.org/ip123.html>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, this is a biased post. Seekers who are truly interested are
encouraged to investigate & reach their own conclusions. Understandibly,
most will not believe this until after He has presented His credentials to the
world....but those whose minds are truly open, will consider it to be
at least, 'possibly true', even if they don't believe it.
=======================================================================
---------------Peace on earth & goodwill to all----------
Born Again
But then again, as paul was personally chosen by Jesus, I don't think he could
be wrong, eh? By the way, there is a good book on the conversion of Paul by Lord
Lyttelton: Observations on the Conversion and Apostelship of St. Paul.
You could start correcting you views on Paul by attempting to read it.
BA
Debbie Miller
DW Suiter wrote:
>It is the evil spirit of mankind which also unifies and brings into
>oneness of evil.
DW,
Only God can unify. Evil cannot unify, for True unity is of God
alone. Do you not remember the words Christ (Esa) spoke in Matthew:
"But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast
out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." (Matthew
12:24)
<21>But the Pharisees started a negative propaganda campaign against
him. They said he received his power from satan, the prince of the
devils.
"And Esa knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom
divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or
house against itself shall not stand:" (Matthew 12:25)
"And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall
then his kingdom stand?" (Matthew 12:26)
"And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast
them out? therefore they shall be your judges." (Matthew 12:27)
<22>A man cannot cast out the devil by the power of the prince of the
devils (tama guna).
"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of
God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)
<23>It can only be done by the Spirit of God (satva guna, The Holy
Ghost) and then the truth of the universe will come to you (the
Kingdom of God).
gen...@usit.net
How dense is the barriar in your mind to understanding? Do you not
know nor understand who and what the evil spirit is? Do you not know
why man must be saved from evil? And how did man become evil except
through the works of those who bring union of man with evil?
>"But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast
>out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." (Matthew
>12:24)
><21>But the Pharisees started a negative propaganda campaign against
>him. They said he received his power from satan, the prince of the
>devils.
>
>"And Esa knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom
>divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or
>house against itself shall not stand:" (Matthew 12:25)
The kingdom of darkness is not divided.
>"And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall
>then his kingdom stand?" (Matthew 12:26)
>
>"And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast
>them out? therefore they shall be your judges." (Matthew 12:27)
><22>A man cannot cast out the devil by the power of the prince of the
>devils (tama guna).
>
>"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of
>God is come unto you." (Matthew 12:28)
><23>It can only be done by the Spirit of God (satva guna, The Holy
>Ghost) and then the truth of the universe will come to you (the
>Kingdom of God).
>
>
>
Do you have a point you were trying to express with all these
scriptures?
DW Suiter
gen...@usit.net
There is no difference between the teachings of the apostle Paul and
Jesus of Nazareth. You believe there is by the polluted bread of your
god, Joseph E. who attempts to fight against God and His Holy apostle
Paul. Joseph and you blaspheme by falsely accusing Paul in ignorance
and lack of understanding of his teachings. If you were of Christ you
would know and understand the teachings of Paul. You are not; you are
of your father the devil.
DW Suiter
Gary
<35ce874e...@news.surfree.com>...
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
>
>Obviously, this is a biased post. Seekers who are truly interested are
>encouraged to investigate & reach their own conclusions. Understandibly,
>most will not believe this until after He has presented His credentials to
the
>world....but those whose minds are truly open, will consider it to be
>at least, 'possibly true', even if they don't believe it.
>=======================================================================
>
And just what might those "credentials" be?
I am new to the word, "Maitreya" and not at all familiar with what you are
talking about, but would appreciate a brief presentation of what you mean by
"His credentials."
Gary
Gary
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew
great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall
deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go
not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the
west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
You and your "masters" are liers from hell.
Gary
Dolores Vogelsang wrote in message
<35f56219....@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>>> >>>Dolores replied:
>>> >>>> Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>>> >>>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as
Esa
>>> >>>>the Christ.
>
>>> >>On Mon, 25 May 1998 01:18:22 GMT, zfor...@hotmail.com (Sentience)
>>> >>>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
>>> >>>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
>
>>> >mait...@email.msn.com (Joseph M. Emmanuel)
>>> >>It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to
be
>>> >>revealed to humanity, in that time. The Truth of the mater is that He
>>is
>
>>> On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 01:16:03 GMT, sa...@roundthebend.com (Sandy Kear)
>>> >The Truth of the matter is that Dolores stated as fact that Mohammed
and
>>> >Jesus were the same person, when in fact she had no holy writings to
back up
>>> >her statement. In short, she was misrepresenting your dogmas/teachings
as
>>> >being factual, when there is nothing upon which to base that claim.
>
>>Dolores Vogelsang <dolo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
>>> Of course, I represent the teachings of Maitreya (JME) as
>>> written in THOTH, and the many other literature of the Mission, as
>>> factual. This Revelation came directly from God.
>>> There is a message posted by r.woo...@bigfoot.com on the
>>> alt.religion.bahai newsgroup. The header is: The Atonements and the
>>> Station of Absolute Unity.
>>> I answered this post (a small part of it can now be read by
>>> those subscribing to the alt.religion.christian and the
>>> talk.religion.newage groups) because he said in his post, "As
>>> Baha'u'llah quotes Muhammed saying:
>>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>>> am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and
>>> words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this
>>> sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from
>>> that of Muhammed and of His holy Book..." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,
>>> page 21)
>
Born Again
but to bring the sword, and fire; His teachings would create division between a
father and his son, a mother and her daughter in law.
BA
On 8 Aug 1998 14:02:17 GMT, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
Roving Reporter
need to read those books yourself and stop accepting other people's word
for what was in them, particularly check also the authorship of those books
and find out if they've been proven at least to a limited degree. For
example, the Bible has some legitimacy because it really is one of the
oldest continuous texts still in existence. It's my understanding that some
Hindu books are old as well, and possibly older--such as the Bagavhad Gita.
I would not put too much faith in a new prophet without a great deal of
evidence. After all, why reinvent the wheel?--If you need a belief system,
it's not necessary to follow a new one with so many already in existence.
And if you prefer fringe, well, there are plenty of those in India from the
past. (-:
On 8 Aug 1998, Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
>On 8 Aug 1998 13:31:43 GMT, el...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>>"John P. Boatwright" <sa...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>>Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>>>> am Jesus."
>>
>>All of the Manifestations be it Abraham or Muhammad, are the Word of God. As
>>Baha'u'llah quotes Muhammad saying:
>>
>>"As to the matter of names, Muhammad, Himself, declared: "I am Jesus." He
>>recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and
>>testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of
>>Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muhammad and of His holy
>>Book..." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, page 21)
>
>Thanks Michael
>
>Dolores
>http://www.maitreya.org
>
>
>
**********************************************************
* Therese Shellabarger - tls...@concentric.net *
* http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell/ Shalom chaverot! *
------------------------------------------------
* See Deaf Expo at http://www.deafexpo.org/ *
**********************************************************
Dolores Vogelsang
>The following is intended to help alleviate confusion for anyone who
>doesn't know that there are *at least* two different Maitreyas being promoted
>on the web &/or discussed in the newsgroups. Those who are interested, may wish
>to bear this in mind and avoid confusing these two:
>
>===========================================================
>
>One: Also known as Joseph Emmanuel, was born November 8, 1944, in
>Tehran, Iran. He's said that he attended Graduate Business school and
>after dropping out "learned" that he was the Christ, Maitreya. JE,
>Delores, Debbie, & a few others truly believe that JE is the long
>awaited Avatar, expected by people of all religions and appear to have
>honorable intentions. They claim that JE is the Maitreya, who Benjamin
>Creme spoke & wrote about. They have some pretty good spiritual teachings.
>"When you join the Mission formally, the minimum requirement is the financial
>help of 10% of your gross income (tithe)."
>Their web site:<http://www.maitreya.org>
>Obviously, this is a biased post. Seekers who are truly interested are
>encouraged to investigate & reach their own conclusions. Understandibly,
>most will not believe this until after He has presented His credentials to the
>world....but those whose minds are truly open, will consider it to be
>at least, 'possibly true', even if they don't believe it.
This post just keeps coming up. So again we answer, and ask
that all interested in Maitreya (JME) and the Message he has received
from God, please go to our web site if they want information about us,
not believe anyone who has never been here or studied about us. There
are a few points that are misleading, however, I will just answer the
statement on tithing because that is what we receive comments about.
"When you join the Mission formally, the minimum requirement
is the financial help of 10% of your gross income (tithe)." can be a
very misleading statement. One might take that to mean that when you
first come to the Mission, you are required to give financial help.
Let it be known that I have lived at the Mission for eleven
years now, and was in touch with the Mission for about four years
previous to my coming here. No one that I know of has ever been
asked to tithe until they were initiated. Anyone who would accept
initiation would be very sincere about this Mission.
Actually, tithing is not new, it was taught and practiced in
Old Testament times. We can find Jacob tithing (Gen. 28:22). You can
find the practice of tithing recorded in Lev., Deut, Num., Neh., Look
in Mal. 3:8 where God says, "Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed
me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and
offerings."
Tithing is God's Way!
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
John P. Boatwright
> >Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
> >> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
> >> am Jesus."
Dollars is such a LIAR.
Post a quote Dollars, show everyone where Muhammed
said he's Jesus.
> I am sending this to alt.religion.islam
Cuz you believe it and want them to talk with you about it?
> They are in need of a good laugh over there.
Possibly, but Muhammed was NOT Jesus and was NOT Elijah
and was NOT John the Baptist.
Do you agree?
... (years pass) ...
Anxiously waiting for YOUR PROOF that Muhammed was
"about everyone on the block".
... (years pass) ...
Gosh, we've gone ROUND and ROUND on this, you never
give ANY PROOF to back up your claims.
Oh well.
You see Elly, I haven't read the Quran, but you claim
you have. You also claim to know what's in the bible.
So when you say Elijah is John the Baptist, Elijah
is Mohammed, Elijah is (endless list of people in
history), etc... then it's UP TO YOU to PROVIDE PROOF
of your assertions.
Understand?
(probably not)
Are you still claiming to be an angel?
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God predicted he'd have a SON, >>> 1000 years BEFORE <<<
Jesus showed up:
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/son.htm
Proof God gave the Genesis account in that it matches
current science data with 208,000,000:1 odds of God
being the source:
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/genesis.htm
Proof God predicted Jesus in Isaiah 53:
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/isaiah53.htm
Proof Jesus is the ARM OF GOD, the "zeroah" (ARM)
which by the way is the LAMB SACRIFICE (Jesus
died for the sins of the world):
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/armofgod.htm
Proof the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus
and was PREDICTED in the bible:
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/shroud.htm
Proof God sent his 2 witnesses that show God
predicted Jesus >>> 520 years BEFORE <<< he showed up:
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/pipeprog.htm
Proof God predicted ICBM's >>> 2500 years ago <<<:
http://www.teleport.com/~salad/4god/zec5.htm
John P. Boatwright
> >>Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
> >>> am Jesus."
> >I am sending this to alt.religion.islam
> >They are in need of a good laugh over there.
> Good idea! Only it would be nice if we sent what I posted,
> not the one liner that Boatwright took out of context to make it look
> like I said those words in quotes.
YOU POSTED THAT >>> EXACT QUOTE <<< Dollars.
Duh!
I didn't insert the quote, I didn't type it in... YOU DID.
That's YOUR GARBAGE that YOU want to PROMOTE.
What, you don't like people knowing that YOU ARE PROMOTING A LIE???
ha ha ha...
Who cares?
You've OPENLY LIED >>> CONSTANTLY <<< on usenet.
> I posted a partial post I read on the alt.religion.bahai
> newsgroup written by r.woodlock where he was quoting Baha'i writers.
> Of course, I whole-heartedly agree with, this statement that
> Baha'u'llah accredits to Muhammed.
ha ha ha...
Now you ADMIT you AGREE with the LYING that YOU quoted.
Too funny.
Well, let's top it off with more of your leader's LYING
(anyone can find all of this on DejaNews, all confirmed):
But notice:
ha ha ha...
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
John P. Boatwright
> Let it be known that I have lived at the Mission for eleven
> years now,
Why not get a job instead of LYING to people and hoping
they'll send you cash for it?
el...@earthlink.net
>
>> >Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
>
>> >> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>> >> am Jesus."
>
>
>Post a quote Dollars, show everyone where Muhammed
>
>> I am sending this to alt.religion.islam
>
>
>
>and was NOT John the Baptist.
>
>Do you agree?
Well, Boats, one out of three ain't bad for you...
Mohammed was NOT Jesus.
But WHERE did you get that three-sided coin?
Michael
Debbie Miller
>.<SEELITE@SURFREEDOTCOM wrote in message
><35ce874e...@news.surfree.com>...
>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------------------------
>>
>>Obviously, this is a biased post. Seekers who are truly interested are
>>encouraged to investigate & reach their own conclusions. Understandibly,
>>most will not believe this until after He has presented His credentials to
>the
>>world....but those whose minds are truly open, will consider it to be
>>at least, 'possibly true', even if they don't believe it.
>>=======================================================================
>>
>And just what might those "credentials" be?
>
>I am new to the word, "Maitreya" and not at all familiar with what you are
>talking about, but would appreciate a brief presentation of what you mean by
>"His credentials."
>
>Gary
Gary,
There is a host of information on our web site. We are at
http://www.maitreya.org
Sincerely,
Debbie
Sentience
wrote:
>Only God can unify. Evil cannot unify, for True unity is of God
>alone. Do you not remember the words Christ (Esa) spoke in Matthew:
I guess that is why joe failed to unify any major religion hmm?
Student.
DZ454
>>alone. Do you not remember the words Christ (Esa) spoke in Matthew:
>
>
Satan has unified the churches against the truth.
John P. Boatwright
And your point is that David Koresh descended from heaven???
eh?
David Koresh WAS NEVER and will NOT ever be: Jesus.
No matter how hard you wish for it, you can't make it so.
Oh well.
Kind of reminds me of Joey boy Emmanuel trying to be
God, not God, Jesus, not Jesus, just a messenger, not
a messenger, an atheist, a Buddhist, a etc... (you name
it, he claims he's it and not it depending on who he's
talking with).
David Koresh was just a man.
Get over it.
DZ454
>And your point is that David Koresh descended from heaven???
>
>eh?
Ahh, no.
That wasn't my point.
Go on in your delusion John.
Sentience
>"John P. Boatwright" <sa...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>Dolores Vogelsang wrote:
>>>
>>> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>>> am Jesus."
>
>I am sending this to alt.religion.islam
>
>They are in need of a good laugh over there.
Aww Michael please don't do that dolores, debbie and joe have enough
problems as it is trying to square their home made messiah with
reality.
Student.
>Michael
Sentience
>> You still haven't answered my other post on this, is the name of Jesus &
>>Muhammad (PBUH) death? Does Hell (Hades) follow them around? Talk
>>about ridiculous interpretations.
>"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was
>Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the
>fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with
>death, and with the beasts of the earth." (Rev. 6:8)
joe the home made messiah wrote (trying to interpret the above
Scripture):
><27>The pale horse means a balance in the revelation in this stage, a
>balance between spirit and matter. It is neither white, nor red, nor
>black, but a balance between all these extremes. That is why in Islam the
>material world and spiritual world both are considered equally important,
>and many laws were set up for social relationships.
><28>"And his name that sat on him was Death," means that the one who sat on
>him brings the death of Maya, because in this stage, you will enter the
>fifth chackras which is the abode of overcoming all unnecessary material
>longings.
><29>"And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to
>kill with sword,..." Islam covered the fourth part of the earth through
>the concept of "Holy Wars." They established themselves by the power of
>war "with sword," which was given them. If this power had not been given
>to them, they could not have been able to do it.
As I said a ridiculous interpretation.
I also wrote:
>>Another glaring error, they do divide and have done so ever since the
>>first one came along (except possibly Hinduism & its sects) the minute
>>one of these messengers makes a proclamation of their faith
>>immediately there is a division between the believers in it and those
>>who do not accept it. Anyone can plainly see that.
joe tries again to get around his own failures at being anything
special:
>This is not unscriptural, as many will reject the final teachings. They
>are the one, Bible says, will be thrown to the lake of fire! This karma
>shows that they are not ready. They will be kept from reincarnating for
>along time (lake of fire, will stay in ignorance).
>
>We are not creating the division. It is human who has created it. God is
>one, how can He be the source of division. Spirit is One, it unifies, ego
>separates, and any believe that separates is from ego (human)!
Reality check joe, you are creating just one more division, if you
were not here hey presto one less person trying to set up their own
religion/path or whatever as being above all others (or the most
correct path anyway).
And since you are a human being despite your funny beliefs about
yourself you have just created one more division.
Student.
Sentience
>>A nice try at ignoring my earlier question, however you have failed to
>>furnish us with one single quote from the Qur'an which says that
>>Muhammad (PBUH) acknowledged that He is one and the *same* person as
>>the Messiah. Please show us clearly where it says this in the Qur'an.
>>
>>Dolores honestly replied:
>>
>>>Sorry, Sentience, I do not know where there is an exact quote
>>>where Prophet Muhammed said he was the one and the same person as Esa
>>>the Christ.
I replied:
>>That's okay in fact you will find that there is no such quote at all,
>>either in the Holy Qur'an or the Hadith's.
joe squirms now on account of his mistakes:
>It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or for it to be
>revealed to humanity, in that time.
Eh eh Oh sure in other words Muhammad didn't know who He was eh eh but
naturally you do, and lets not forget that He obviously knew Himself
better than you claim to know Him.
Talk about having a problem with reality, all this just to try and fit
Muhammad into your funny scheme, all despite the evidence of Islam
which says the complete opposite to what you claim.
Using your form of logic we might as well say that you are the tooth
fairy, and ignore any thing you say to the contrary, since that
doesn't count eh eh.
>The Truth of the mater is that He is
>the first and the last, the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega.
>he is the One who has opened the Seven Seals, the Major religions on earth,
>The Eternal Divine Path.
Truth according to joe, which doesn't square with the facts, an
interesting flight into fanciful thinking but that unfortunately is
all that it is.
What is sad is that you might actually believe it.
Student.
Sentience
> "As to the matter of names, Muhammed, Himself, declared: "I
>am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and
>words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this
>sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from
>that of Muhammed and of His holy Book..." (Baha'u'llah: Gleanings,
>page 21)
And where did Muhammad say this? Hmm? Looks to me like you were
reading Bahai books again without checking the sources properly.
A bit like your attempts at trying to prove that joe is of any real
importance in regards to prophecy with one 'liner' prophecies borrowed
from Bahai books.
Student.
Sentience
>Good idea! Only it would be nice if we sent what I posted,
>not the one liner that Boatwright took out of context to make it look
>like I said those words in quotes.
Hmm you mean like you do when you attempt to prove that joe is
actually a fulfillment of prophecy?
>I posted a partial post I read on the alt.religion.bahai
>newsgroup written by r.woodlock where he was quoting Baha'i writers.
>Of course, I whole-heartedly agree with, this statement that
>Baha'u'llah accredits to Muhammed.
Naturally you would because it ties in with joes own interpretations,
sheesh that much is obvious, what is really funny is that you then
turn around and run away from the Bahaulla's words which expose joe as
a pretending fraud.
But we have come to expect that with you, a pick and choose religion
with (supposed) proofs which are equally picked and chosen if it looks
like they might be able to be forced into applying to joe.
Oh and we all know about those prophecies which expose joe, yep just
boot them out, stretch their meanings or claim that they originated
from corrupt sources eh eh.
joe still remains true to his own pattern 'I have to try and make
myself fit into this somehow'.
Student.
Sentience
beyond her understanding:
>Can't you discern the difference between the doctrines of Paul
>and the True teachings of Esa the Christ?
What dolores forgot to tell you Born Again is that both sides of the
Paul discussion do agree on one thing, and that is joe (the home made
messiah) is a fake. -Well opinion is somewhat divided- some think he
is a con artists, others he is delusional, what ever may be the case
he is definitely not the Messiah.
Student.
johnc...@my-dejanews.com
gl...@ipass.net wrote:
> The Word
> made flesh
> for Holy
> Ground
> That God have sanctuary
> with
> us
> Yeshua Messiach Emmanuel Jesus Messiah God is with us Yahshu Messia
> Emanuel
>
> Know now:
>
> There is only one Christ.
>
Gee Glen you are so cryptic. Is this an X files thing or some thing.
Actually your posts have a profound effect on my life and I am now going to
spend the rest of my life spouting mystic drivel just like you.
John C
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Dolores Vogelsang
wrote:
>Dolores, you should not believe everything you read on the internet; you
>need to read those books yourself and stop accepting other people's word
>for what was in them, particularly check also the authorship of those books
>and find out if they've been proven at least to a limited degree. For
>example, the Bible has some legitimacy because it really is one of the
>oldest continuous texts still in existence. It's my understanding that some
>Hindu books are old as well, and possibly older--such as the Bagavhad Gita.
>I would not put too much faith in a new prophet without a great deal of
>evidence. After all, why reinvent the wheel?--If you need a belief system,
>it's not necessary to follow a new one with so many already in existence.
>And if you prefer fringe, well, there are plenty of those in India from the
>past. (-:
Dear Therese,
Thank you for your post. One of the teachings of the Mission
of Maitreya is to study the Scriptures. This means the Scriptures of
the seven major religions of the world, not just the Bible.
You said, "you would not put too much faith in a new prophet
without a great deal of evidence." I would certainly agree with you.
Let me give my testimony, in brief, and you may understand how I know
(not believe) that Maitreya (Joseph Emmanuel) is the Christ of God.
Back in the late 70's, because the prophecies were being
fulfilled before my eyes, I began to search for the Christ. I knew he
was in the world. I prayed to God that I might find His First/Only
Begotten Son and that I might be able to serve him.
Sometime around the beginning of 1983 a friend of mine said he
found someone named Joseph Emmanuel of the Mission of Maitreya in
Albuquerque, New Mexico, and that he had sent for his book, The
Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH). He hadn't finished his statement when
my Soul was moved within me. I knew this was Maitreya the Christ and
told my friend that this was the Christ.
After my friend received THOTH, and had a chance to read it,
he sent it to me. My friends and I began to read this Scripture.
There was so much truth in Its pages.
Later that year, we invited Maitreya to come to us, and he
did. We set up meetings with various groups, etc where he could bring
the Message of the seventh seal. I can say that we actually
understood very little of what he was revealing. Now I know that we
should have come humbly. We should have empties our cups in order to
receive more of the fullness of what was being offered.
Eleven years ago I moved to New Mexico and have been living at
the Mission of Maitreya, ever since. For me, the only evidence I
needed was the Spirit of God moving my Soul. However, there is a
great deal of evidence on our web site at: http://www.maitreya.org
We invite all to investigate.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
AltWay
dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
" I prayed to God that I might find His First/Only Begotten Son and that
I might be able to serve him. Sometime around the beginning of 1983 a
friend of mine said he found someone named Joseph Emmanuel of the Mission
of Maitreya in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and that he had sent for his
book, The Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH). He hadn't finished his
statement when my Soul was moved within me. I knew this was Maitreya the
Christ and told my friend that this was the Christ."
Comment :-
If you pray to an image of God which you have yourself created or accepted,
then if you get an answer confirming it then this is a case of wish
fulfilment well known. You are looking for something which will fulfil your
desire and you will interpret things and events in a manner which will
confirm the desire.
The first thing you ought to notice if you think Maitreya brings a religion
which includes the past religions is that Islam cannot be fitted into it.
This is because islam does not accept that God has a begotten Son. The
Islamic Allah to whom Surrender is required by islam is not, therefore, the
god you worship.
As for the movement of your soul, you are probably speaking of an emotion
which resulted from wish fulfilment. But it is also possible that you were
moved by the fact Thot does copy extracts from genuine scriptures.
I have read Thot. It shows some insight and imaginative use of some ideas
picked up from Hinduism and Yoga e.g the 3 gunas and the chakras.
The language in which it is written is certainly not of the kind of
sophistication one associates with true scriptures. His understanding of
the nature of the various religions is rather simplistic. If Joseph Emmanuel
is well intentioned then his understanding of what a Prophet is is
very naive. Good intentions, unfortunately, are not the same as truth, and
can do harm if they are delusions. But if there is no delusion and the
intention is not good either then ............
H.S.Aziz
--
_ ___ _ _____________________________________________
|_| | | | | |_| \ / /
| | |_ | |/\| | | | /... For more info Read "The Alternative Way"
_______________________/ ... on www.argonet.co.uk/education/haziz
______________________/ ... ha...@argonet.co.uk
afshin.a...@utoronto.ca
claims for Muhammad having said this and that when he never did.
To check out the truth on the bahai faith look up thi site:
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/index.htm
Answering Bahaullah
May the peace and blessings of God be on our Holy Prophet Muhammad!!
In article <35d18803...@news.wantree.com.au>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Sentience
>Student, Cassien, Sentience, etc, etc, etc, (by whatever name you
>choose to post),
> You ask why I will not answer your posts? Well, just re-read
>what you have posted in answer to our posts, today.
Your answer was a typical non answer devoid of any proof or proper
context however it was filled with, as per usual, excuses.
>I know this is not an accepted idea, however, it is the Truth.
>And now it turns out that we are not the only ones who recognize that
>this is truth. I would like to know more about where in the Koran
>Baha'u'llah obtained this truth. Thus my question to r.woodlock.
It is nowhere in the Holy Qura'n/Hadiths, plain and simple. You have
latched onto an idea which you hope brings some shred of proof to joes
cause but sadly again you just do not have the evidence, just more
words and excuses.
You see it only as truth because it ties in with joes teaching however
once again as you also go on to reject Bahaulla's words which expose
joe as a pretending fraud, most interesting indeed.
>"It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or
>for it to be revealed to humanity, in that time.
And as I said before using this silly form of logic (that Muhammad
doesn't know who He really was) is as stupid as saying joe is really
the tooth fairy and discounting everything he says to the contrary,
you see he really doesn't know.
>I do not know your intent, but I intend to bring as much truth
>to these newsgroups as possible.
Sure we can see that, truth which contradicts the writings that
already exist, and naturally when this is pointed out joe & co in
their usual style have to hunt around for excuses and ways out of
admitting the obvious, that being joe is wrong again.
Lets see the faiths are using dogma, the scriptures are corrupted,
this religion is dead, and so it goes and naturally joe is above all
this and only his path/way is perfect, all said naturally because joe
does not fit into any of them, and at best he has a limited
understanding of each faith and what their Sacred books really do
teach.
>If you can prove us wrong, fine, but
>that can be done in a respectful manner. If we are wrong, we also
>would like to know, for we only want to stand for the highest Truth of
>God.
If your teachings are wrong (from the thoth) then joe and his claims
are wrong and his whole artificial structure comes tumbling down.
Student.
Sentience
> One of the teachings of the Mission
>of Maitreya is to study the Scriptures. This means the Scriptures of
>the seven major religions of the world, not just the Bible.
And guess what the Ananda Marga group is not one of those 'seven major
religions of the world' is it now dolores?
joe picked it because it was the one that supposedly gave him his name
'maitreya' so he had to fit it into his scheme of things.
Without doubt you will have to try to re-define what a major world
religion is so that joe & co can maintain their illusion of being
correct when reality says otherwise.
>You said, "you would not put too much faith in a new prophet
>without a great deal of evidence." I would certainly agree with you.
Sure, you mean like one liner prophecies borrowed from Bahai books
without checking out the sources properly for yourselves?
The only evidence you think you have is joes own words and his claims,
the Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, and Bahai's have pointed out your
distortions of their Sacred Scriptures time after time, and what is
your response? They got it all wrong, they don't understand, they
refuse to see it, their Scriptures are corrupted and the latest one
(in regards to Muhammed -PBUH-) is that He really didn't know He was
Jesus.
>Let me give my testimony, in brief, and you may understand how I know
>(not believe) that Maitreya (Joseph Emmanuel) is the Christ of God.
>Back in the late 70's, because the prophecies were being
>fulfilled before my eyes, I began to search for the Christ. I knew he
>was in the world. I prayed to God that I might find His First/Only
>Begotten Son and that I might be able to serve him.
>Sometime around the beginning of 1983 a friend of mine said he
>found someone named Joseph Emmanuel of the Mission of Maitreya in
>Albuquerque, New Mexico, and that he had sent for his book, The
>Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH). He hadn't finished his statement when
>my Soul was moved within me. I knew this was Maitreya the Christ and
>told my friend that this was the Christ.
And that is your proof? How many others have similar testimonies and
amongst the newer groups that theirs is the correct path which
contains 'all' of the truth?
>After my friend received THOTH, and had a chance to read it,
>he sent it to me. My friends and I began to read this Scripture.
>There was so much truth in Its pages.
>Later that year, we invited Maitreya to come to us, and he
>did. We set up meetings with various groups, etc where he could bring
>the Message of the seventh seal. I can say that we actually
>understood very little of what he was revealing. Now I know that we
>should have come humbly. We should have empties our cups in order to
>receive more of the fullness of what was being offered.
>Eleven years ago I moved to New Mexico and have been living at
>the Mission of Maitreya, ever since. For me, the only evidence I
>needed was the Spirit of God moving my Soul.
Yep that about sums up the total of your evidence -a feeling which you
assume came from the Holy Spirit-.
Student.
Sentience
>Comment :-
>
>If you pray to an image of God which you have yourself created or accepted,
>then if you get an answer confirming it then this is a case of wish
>fulfilment well known. You are looking for something which will fulfil your
>desire and you will interpret things and events in a manner which will
>confirm the desire.
Yep and joe (the home made messiah) appears to follow the same pattern
over and over.
>The first thing you ought to notice if you think Maitreya brings a religion
>which includes the past religions is that Islam cannot be fitted into it.
Yes especially considering that Islam considers that it is an 'all
comprehensive' religion and that there would be no other prophet after
Muhammed -PBUH-.
>This is because islam does not accept that God has a begotten Son. The
>Islamic Allah to whom Surrender is required by islam is not, therefore, the
>god you worship.
A point that they have trouble with, if they want to make Muhammed
-PBUH- Jesus (though naturally He didn't know He was Jesus -well
according to joe anyway-) why is it that the major religions
contradict each other on major doctrinal issues?
Their Jesus (Issa) kept getting it wrong, and in fact is still getting
it wrong today via joe.
They claim that the religions don't contradict each other in essence,
the evidence says otherwise. How does one suddenly make polytheism one
with monotheism? If Jesus was Krishna who was also Muhammed -PBUH- the
problem only compounds.
Krishna was not Jesus nor Muhammed -PBUH- but then again they have a
problem with reality which so often contradicts joes claims.
>I have read Thot. It shows some insight and imaginative use of some ideas
>picked up from Hinduism and Yoga e.g the 3 gunas and the chakras.
>The language in which it is written is certainly not of the kind of
>sophistication one associates with true scriptures. His understanding of
>the nature of the various religions is rather simplistic.
Yes simplistic to the extreme, and showing a shallow understanding of
each faith, what they teach and what the Scriptures have to say for
themselves.
It appears that joe (the home made messiah) read some books commenting
on other books without ever checking into the sources themselves, nor
bothering to check with what scholars within Islam, Christianity etc
had to say on the Scriptures in question.
It is little wonder that they made so many mistakes.
>If Joseph Emmanuel
>is well intentioned then his understanding of what a Prophet is is
>very naive. Good intentions, unfortunately, are not the same as truth, and
>can do harm if they are delusions. But if there is no delusion and the
> intention is not good either then ............
Hmm one can only wonder.
Student.
>H.S.Aziz
Sentience
>Muhammad never ever said such a thing. This is a common bahai tactic of making
>claims for Muhammad having said this and that when he never did.
>
>To check out the truth on the bahai faith look up this site:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/index.htm
>
>Answering Bahaullah
>
>May the peace and blessings of God be on our Holy Prophet Muhammad!!
No argument from me, look you know this, almost without doubt the
entire Muslim world knows this, as does the Christian world and even I
know this.
However attempting to show joe (the home made messiah) & co this fact
is another thing altogether, remember he can never be wrong ;-)
Oh it gets worse, not only are Jesus (Issa) and Muhammed -PBUH-
supposed to be one and the same person, Krishna is also supposed to be
one and the same person as Muhammed -PBUH- and so on it goes.
Naturally joe (their messiah) is all of them today.
Sadly reason and proof are not a part of their thinking, they appear
to prefer excuses and half baked concepts taken out of context,
despite what any Sacred Scripture, Tradition, History or common sense
says to the contrary.
Student.
John P. Boatwright
ha ha ha ...
Let's review what you said only days ago:
(from DejaNews)
=======================================================================
Subject: Re: The 6th Seal is opened.
From: dz...@aol.com (DZ454)
Date: 1998/08/07
Message-ID: <199808071808...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.bible.prophecy
> Consider that, according to what you say, Koresh was the
>Messiah, yet, again, according to what you say, the sixth seal was not
>even opened when Koresh was alive. It is not until the seventh seal
>is opened that the mystery of God is finished. Wasn't Koresh himself
>looking for the meaning of the seventh seal? At leas
The seal will be fulfilled by Koresh when he returns as Michael next
year.
We'll see how your arguements hold up then.
========================================================================
ha ha ha...
See that last line there "DZ454"???
Ya, that's you, remember?
Remember how you've been touting David Koresh as "wonder man"???
ha ha ha...
Look, it's pretty simple (read slowly): David Koresh was JUST A MAN.
Get it?
If you'll bother to THINK (for once), you'll realize that Revelation
says SPECIFICALLY that the LAMB (Jesus) opens the seals, >>> NOT <<<
Michael.
Ya ya ya, it's too tough to figure out when you want David Koresh
to be what ever it is you want to make him so you can "sell" your
religion.
Hmm...
Are you related to JME???
Has anyone bought into Lucifer being a female yet (when the
bible PLAINLY states that Lucifer is male)?
Ya, don't deny you said it, it's on DejaNews as well.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God predicted ICBM's >>> 2500 years ago <<<:
Dolores Vogelsang
>In article <35d0eb2f....@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
>dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
> " I prayed to God that I might find His First/Only Begotten Son and that
> I might be able to serve him. Sometime around the beginning of 1983 a
> friend of mine said he found someone named Joseph Emmanuel of the Mission
> of Maitreya in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and that he had sent for his
> book, The Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH). He hadn't finished his
> statement when my Soul was moved within me. I knew this was Maitreya the
> Christ and told my friend that this was the Christ."
>
>Comment :-
>
>If you pray to an image of God which you have yourself created or accepted,
>then if you get an answer confirming it then this is a case of wish
>fulfilment well known. You are looking for something which will fulfil your
>desire and you will interpret things and events in a manner which will
>confirm the desire.
>
>The first thing you ought to notice if you think Maitreya brings a religion
>which includes the past religions is that Islam cannot be fitted into it.
>This is because islam does not accept that God has a begotten Son. The
>Islamic Allah to whom Surrender is required by islam is not, therefore, the
>god you worship.
>
>As for the movement of your soul, you are probably speaking of an emotion
>which resulted from wish fulfilment. But it is also possible that you were
>moved by the fact Thot does copy extracts from genuine scriptures.
>
>I have read Thot. It shows some insight and imaginative use of some ideas
>picked up from Hinduism and Yoga e.g the 3 gunas and the chakras.
>The language in which it is written is certainly not of the kind of
>sophistication one associates with true scriptures. His understanding of
>the nature of the various religions is rather simplistic. If Joseph Emmanuel
>is well intentioned then his understanding of what a Prophet is is
>very naive. Good intentions, unfortunately, are not the same as truth, and
>can do harm if they are delusions. But if there is no delusion and the
> intention is not good either then ............
>
>H.S.Aziz
Sal-Om H.S.,
Were you born to parents who followed Islam? What would your
answer to my post be if you were born in a Christian country to
parents who introduced you to Christianity? Can you answer? Now can
you consider what your life would be like if God choose to have you
born to parents who embraced the Baha'i Faith?
I do not mean for you to answer these question on these
newsgroups. In fact that would not even be wise. But I hope you will
think before you judge where on the Path any other person is. Only
God knows!
Each of the major religions criticize the other for many and
various reasons. Yet, it is God who sent each of those Messages. It
is God who revealed His Truth, His Path, step by step, to His
Messenger. Prophet Muhammed understood this because he was connected
to God.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
DZ454
your point is that David Koresh descended from heaven???
>
>> >eh?
and that wasn't the point of it.
I'm in no way denying any previous statements I have made. So the shoe is on
the other foot, get over your delusion John.
Chris Peterson
> John P. Boatwright wrote:
I pulled John out of the killfile, just for grins,
wondering if he's got anything new to say. Let's
see what he has to say.
> ha ha ha ...
I think I've heard this one already, maybe too often.
> Ya ya ya
Hey, this is a new one I think. Maybe not.
> Hmm...
Definitely a repeat.
> Ya
Ya, heard it before.
> God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
This one is getting way too old. Change your sig
John, this one is worn out.
<snip same ole delusional references>
Well, seems nothing interesting or new here, so
back to the killfile you go. Seeya later idiot.
--
Chris Peterson #1075
John P. Boatwright
You know YOU said that YOU thought David Koresh would
return NEXT AUGUST to open the Sixth seal in revelation.
YOU ADMITTED YOU SAID IT.
Now, you MUST REALIZE that ONLY THE LAMB (Jesus) opens
the seals in revelation.
Then from this, YOU ALSO MUST KNOW that Jesus when he
returns HAS TO DESCEND FROM THE CLOUDS.
Did David Koresh do this????
No?
Oh well.
Sorry I didn't slow it down to about ONE LETTER per post
so you could keep up, but it's REALLY OBVIOUS STUFF and
you persisting in thinking David Koresh is "wonder man"
is really pretty silly.
Kinda like JME and his claiming to be God, not God,
uniting all religions, tossing all religions, keeping
all religions scriptures, gunging all scriptures, etc...
Same old, same old.
As for your claim that Lucifer is really female...
ha ha ha...
I guess about a billion bibles have to be re-written
to agree with you.
So what are the chances of it?
Less than zip?
Face "harsh reality", David Koresh was just a man, and
JME is either a LIAR, retarded or insane.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Sentience
>>If you pray to an image of God which you have yourself created or accepted,
>>then if you get an answer confirming it then this is a case of wish
>>fulfilment well known. You are looking for something which will fulfil your
>>desire and you will interpret things and events in a manner which will
>>confirm the desire.
>>
>>The first thing you ought to notice if you think Maitreya brings a religion
>>which includes the past religions is that Islam cannot be fitted into it.
>>This is because islam does not accept that God has a begotten Son. The
>>Islamic Allah to whom Surrender is required by islam is not, therefore, the
>>god you worship.
>>
>>As for the movement of your soul, you are probably speaking of an emotion
>>which resulted from wish fulfilment. But it is also possible that you were
>>moved by the fact Thot does copy extracts from genuine scriptures.
>>
>>I have read Thot. It shows some insight and imaginative use of some ideas
>>picked up from Hinduism and Yoga e.g the 3 gunas and the chakras.
>>The language in which it is written is certainly not of the kind of
>>sophistication one associates with true scriptures. His understanding of
>>the nature of the various religions is rather simplistic. If Joseph Emmanuel
>>is well intentioned then his understanding of what a Prophet is is
>>very naive. Good intentions, unfortunately, are not the same as truth, and
>>can do harm if they are delusions. But if there is no delusion and the
>> intention is not good either then ............
>>
>>H.S.Aziz
dolores totally misses the point of the previous poster:
>Were you born to parents who followed Islam? What would your
>answer to my post be if you were born in a Christian country to
>parents who introduced you to Christianity? Can you answer?
Obviously of no relevance to what the poster said above, are we trying
to side-step the issues again?
>Now can
>you consider what your life would be like if God choose to have you
>born to parents who embraced the Baha'i Faith?
More irrelevance, try reading his post closer next time to get a clue
as to what he is actually talking about.
>I do not mean for you to answer these question on these
>newsgroups. In fact that would not even be wise. But I hope you will
>think before you judge where on the Path any other person is. Only
>God knows!
And as any can see (and have told you time after time) joe is not on
any path of God accept one of his own making.
>Each of the major religions criticize the other for many and
>various reasons. Yet, it is God who sent each of those Messages. It
>is God who revealed His Truth, His Path, step by step, to His
>Messenger. Prophet Muhammed understood this because he was connected
>to God.
Muhammed (PBUH) understood very well, that is why He never said I am
Jesus or Krishna.
That is also why there is a warning against people like joe who would
come along later making false claims, naturally you don't want to see
this possibility.
You are wrong again, now back to the question of evidence? Where did
Muhammed say this? He didn't did He?
Student.
Lubna
father?
Dolores Vogelsang wrote in message
<35d0eb2f....@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>On 09 Aug 1998 01:19:49 PDT, Roving Reporter <Tls...@concentric.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Dolores, you should not believe everything you read on the internet; you
>>need to read those books yourself and stop accepting other people's word
>>for what was in them, particularly check also the authorship of those
books
>>and find out if they've been proven at least to a limited degree. For
>>example, the Bible has some legitimacy because it really is one of the
>>oldest continuous texts still in existence. It's my understanding that
some
>>Hindu books are old as well, and possibly older--such as the Bagavhad
Gita.
>>I would not put too much faith in a new prophet without a great deal of
>>evidence. After all, why reinvent the wheel?--If you need a belief system,
>>it's not necessary to follow a new one with so many already in existence.
>>And if you prefer fringe, well, there are plenty of those in India from
the
>>past. (-:
>
>Dear Therese,
> Thank you for your post. One of the teachings of the Mission
>of Maitreya is to study the Scriptures. This means the Scriptures of
>the seven major religions of the world, not just the Bible.
> You said, "you would not put too much faith in a new prophet
>without a great deal of evidence." I would certainly agree with you.
>Let me give my testimony, in brief, and you may understand how I know
>(not believe) that Maitreya (Joseph Emmanuel) is the Christ of God.
> Back in the late 70's, because the prophecies were being
>fulfilled before my eyes, I began to search for the Christ. I knew he
>was in the world. I prayed to God that I might find His First/Only
>Begotten Son and that I might be able to serve him.
> Sometime around the beginning of 1983 a friend of mine said he
>found someone named Joseph Emmanuel of the Mission of Maitreya in
>Albuquerque, New Mexico, and that he had sent for his book, The
>Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH). He hadn't finished his statement when
>my Soul was moved within me. I knew this was Maitreya the Christ and
>told my friend that this was the Christ.
> After my friend received THOTH, and had a chance to read it,
>he sent it to me. My friends and I began to read this Scripture.
>There was so much truth in Its pages.
> Later that year, we invited Maitreya to come to us, and he
>did. We set up meetings with various groups, etc where he could bring
>the Message of the seventh seal. I can say that we actually
>understood very little of what he was revealing. Now I know that we
>should have come humbly. We should have empties our cups in order to
>receive more of the fullness of what was being offered.
> Eleven years ago I moved to New Mexico and have been living at
>the Mission of Maitreya, ever since. For me, the only evidence I
AltWay
dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang) wrote:
Were you born to parents who followed Islam? What would your
answer to my post be if you were born in a Christian country to
you consider what your life would be like if God choose to have you
born to parents who embraced the Baha'i Faith?
newsgroups. In fact that would not even be wise. But I hope you will
think before you judge where on the Path any other person is. Only
God knows!
various reasons. Yet, it is God who sent each of those Messages. It
is God who revealed His Truth, His Path, step by step, to His
Messenger. Prophet Muhammed understood this because he was connected
to God.
Comment :-
It is certainly the case that most people are conditioned into their beliefs
by the culture into which they were born. Many, however, do some thinking
and meditating and this may lead them to understanding their own religion or
to some other religion. The point is that they are then on the Way rather
than stuck in a prison.
You are right that God sent the different messengers with different ways of
formulating and describing the truth and different practices, but each is an
integrated whole which cannot be divided and mixed up with parts of others
to form an artificial whole of a different kind. It is also necessary to
realise that times change and one formulation more appropriate for a certain
stage in history replaces another which was suitable for other conditions.
Religion also becomes progressively more comprehensive and perfect.
Hebrewism, for instance, was confined to a particular tribe and emphasised
the Justice of God. Christianity broke out of the tribal mould but accepted
only one Prophet and the people who followed Christ and placed emphasis on
the love of God. Islam recognises all the Prophets and came for all mankind
and in addition to recognising the Justice and Love of God placed emphasis
on the Truth of God. It created a system (if people wouldonly recognise it)
which is wholly universal and accomodates all levels of intelligences. It is
no longer necessary to have several independant ways to God, but there is
one which includes them - the same school also contains the different
classes. Islam is not a different religion from Christianity and Hebrewism
etc, but they are all stages in the same religion - stages which ought to
have been outgrown.
I know that you and others would say what about Bahai? Is it not another
stage? Could there not be even further stages? The answer is that if it were
true it would be a stage within Islam. It is the Bahais themselves who
separated from Islam, though they could have been regarded as a reform
movement within Islam. Is it really creating unity of religion or of mankind
by creating another separate religion to add to the confusion? No, the way
forward is to give up superficialities and partial views and progressively
approach the underlying Unity. This is like climbing up a pyramid to the
Unity at the apex. That is where all climbers meet. If, however, they do not
have the same unitary concept of God then their goals and destinations are
different and they will not meet at the apex. Some may be going round and
round at the base or a little higher up and different groups may meet at
different points far from the apex.
Dolores Vogelsang
wrote:
>>If you can prove us wrong, fine, but
>>that can be done in a respectful manner. If we are wrong, we also
>>would like to know, for we only want to stand for the highest Truth of
>>God.
>
>If your teachings are wrong (from the thoth) then joe and his claims
>are wrong and his whole artificial structure comes tumbling down.
>
>Student.
Student,
THOTH came directly from God. That Truth will stand.
If you prove something wrong from what we write, in posting
our understanding of the Revelation God gave to Maitreya, on these
newsgroups, fine. If we are in error, we also would like to know.
However, that is not what you have done so far.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Dolores Vogelsang
wrote:
>dolores wrote:
>
>> One of the teachings of the Mission
>>of Maitreya is to study the Scriptures. This means the Scriptures of
>>the seven major religions of the world, not just the Bible.
>
>And guess what the Ananda Marga group is not one of those 'seven major
>religions of the world' is it now dolores?
>
>joe picked it because it was the one that supposedly gave him his name
>'maitreya' so he had to fit it into his scheme of things.
>
>Without doubt you will have to try to re-define what a major world
>religion is so that joe & co can maintain their illusion of being
>correct when reality says otherwise.
It would be so much better if you would investigate, before
making statement like the last paragraph above, Student?
Baba (the founder of the Ananda Marga Organization) opened the
sixth seal. This seal brought us the Message of the Elects (he used
the sanskrit word, Sadvipras).
The Elected Ones are "those who have struggled through many
lifetimes and have reached higher consciousness or Pure Consciousness.
They are the ones who struggle with God (Children of Israel, the
Hebrews) in order to bring all to Pure Consciousness."
Study The Revelation in the Bible regarding this sixth seal,
study THOTH, and investigated what was happening on the world scene in
1945 when this seal was opened. Then see if you still feel you need
to correct what we have posted.
(large snip)
>Yep that about sums up the total of your evidence -a feeling which you
>assume came from the Holy Spirit-.
>
>Student.
Student, I hate to say this but I must: all you did with your
above statement is to prove that you do not understand how the Spirit
of God works. One who has been touched by God, even once, even the
slightest touch, could never disqualify how God touches, or gives
guidance, or gives the slightest glimpse of His Reality to another.
Let me repost to you Maitreya's writings on the lower nature
of man:
"Man has two natures, the lower nature (lower self) and the
higher nature (higher self). In the lower nature (bestial nature),
man is like an animal and is only concerned about himself. In the
higher nature, man becomes more aware of his Divine self.
It is this lower nature which is the source of suffering for
the human. This is the false ego of man, the part which sees himself
separate from others, the part which is not universalist, the part
which does not view all humans as brothers and sisters, and the part
which gives that empty feeling of separation from the Lord, which is
the greatest suffering of all (illusion of separation).
Taken from The Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH), Readings (The Koran)
Tablet 8, verses 13-15. This Scripture can be found on our web site:
http://www.maitreya.org/files/thoth.win/koran.doc
Maybe my words sound harsh, but in my heart I truly wish there
were something I could say or do to help you. I know how hard it is,
this journey from the lower nature to the higher nature, because I am
walking it myself. God alone knows my heart. I pray for you. And
not only for you but for all of us who are on this journey. May we
never weaken. May we never give up. May we constantly keep our eyes
focused on God, and trust His Guidance totally and forever.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Dolores Vogelsang
>
>>Muhammad never ever said such a thing. This is a common bahai tactic of making
>>claims for Muhammad having said this and that when he never did.
>>
>>To check out the truth on the bahai faith look up this site:
>>
>>http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/index.htm
>>
seven seals will be opened by the Lamb of God.
Prophet Muhammed opened the 4th seal, the seal of Surrendering
and Submission to God. If God's Word is True, then Prophet Muhammed
had to have been this Lamb of God, the only one permitted to open
those seals.
Esa (Jesus) the Christ was this same Lamb of God, who came to
earth to open the 3rd seal. The Message he revealed to humanity was
that we have to sacrifice (let go of our false ego and become
God-centered instead of ego-centered). In other words his message
taught how to overcome the lower nature.
There is a Path that God has been revealing: The Eternal
Divine Path. This Path is made up of the seven Messages which have
been revealed by this same Lamb of God who has opened, one by one,
these seven seals.
Do you see why I believe that Muhammed was the same Lamb of
God as Esa? And, do you see how, in all honesty and sincerity I can
believe and say with my brothers who follow the teachings of Islam:
There is no God but God; Muhammed is the Messenger of Allah. However,
I cannot stop with Prophet Muhammed, for so also was the Bab, Baba,
and now Maitreya the same Messenger of Allah. This is the Lamb of
God.
We invite you to visit or web site at:
http://www.maitreya.org
May His Grace be with us always,
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Sandy Kear
>wrote:
>>
>>Without doubt you will have to try to re-define what a major world
>>religion is so that joe & co can maintain their illusion of being
>>correct when reality says otherwise.
>
> It would be so much better if you would investigate, before
>making statement like the last paragraph above, Student?
Sentience spent a good deal of time investigating your website. At the time
you commended him for his questions, curiosity and open-mindedness.
It seems that your organization has a great deal of difficulty with permitting
people to make up their own minds when presented with your own organization's
informaton.
Sandy
DZ454
had nothing to do with David Koresh. All you are doing is trying real hard to
look like an idiot. case closed.
SnookMnstr
<ha...@argonet.co.uk> writes:
>You are right that God sent the different messengers with different ways of
>formulating and describing the truth and different practices, but each is an
>integrated whole which cannot be divided and mixed up with parts of others
>to form an artificial whole of a different kind. It is also necessary to
>realise that times change and one formulation more appropriate for a certain
>stage in history replaces another which was suitable for other conditions.
>Religion also becomes progressively more comprehensive and perfect.
This is the essence of the Bahai faith. Better watch out! You might just be one
and not know it.
:-))
SnookMnstr
>I know that you and others would say what about Bahai? Is it not another
>stage? Could there not be even further stages? The answer is that if it were
>true it would be a stage within Islam. It is the Bahais themselves who
>separated from Islam, though they could have been regarded as a reform
>movement within Islam.
It is only a form of egocentrism and being comfortable within the box of one's
religion that causes a person to insist that the Bahai faith is not valid in
itself, but that it can ONLY be understood and affiliated somehow with Islam
till the end of time. Bahais have definitely shown that it is a valid
independent religion, just as Islam, while at the core a form of transformed
paganism, is not a sect of the pagan religion it is related to, nor a mere
reformation within it.
God guides as He wills, not as Muslims will.
Sentience
>THOTH came directly from God.
thoth came from the mind of a man who appears to have not researched
his topics very well.
In fact it compares poorly to the Scriptures of the World.
>That Truth will stand.
We shall see, since it is not truth and runs contrary to the
Scriptures that are already in existence, when joe dies what is left?
Very little if anything except perhaps just one more little sect which
thinks it has got 'all' the truth.
joe will have died accomplishing nothing that was supposed to happen
when the True Messiah returns. Without doubt you will have to face
that reality also one day.
>If you prove something wrong from what we write, in posting
>our understanding of the Revelation God gave to Maitreya, on these
>newsgroups, fine. If we are in error, we also would like to know.
>However, that is not what you have done so far.
So getting back to the point, where does it say within the Holy Qura'n
(or Hadiths) that Krishna = Jesus = Muhammed?
I have plenty of evidence to show you are wrong, so now please show us
your scriptural evidence which states (from the Qur'an) that Jesus =
Muhammed.
As per usual you don't have any, and joes attempt at answering this
was most humorous I must admit, pity his excuses just don't wash.
Student.
Sentience
>>> One of the teachings of the Mission
>>>of Maitreya is to study the Scriptures. This means the Scriptures of
>>>the seven major religions of the world, not just the Bible.
I replied:
>>And guess what the Ananda Marga group is not one of those 'seven major
>>religions of the world' is it now dolores?
>>
>>joe picked it because it was the one that supposedly gave him his name
>>'maitreya' so he had to fit it into his scheme of things.
>>
>>Without doubt you will have to try to re-define what a major world
>>religion is so that joe & co can maintain their illusion of being
>>correct when reality says otherwise.
dolores answers:
> It would be so much better if you would investigate, before
>making statement like the last paragraph above, Student?
How about reading the first paragraph dolores it qualifies the last
paragraph above.
So again (since you have problems reading the posts)
Is the Ananda Marge sect one of the 7 'MAJOR WORLD RELIGIONS'?
Its not is it? Hmm :-) Are you wrong again?
So again we wait for your excuses as you try to now re-difine what the
term '7 major world religions' really means.
>Baba (the founder of the Ananda Marga Organization) opened the
>sixth seal. This seal brought us the Message of the Elects (he used
>the sanskrit word, Sadvipras).
Now did Baba claim he was Jesus and that he actually opened this sixth
seal? Show us the references please.
Another question, if Baba opened this 6th seal how could he have been
Jesus when your joe (who is also supposed to be Jesus) was alive when
Baba was still alive?
So was joe born as Jesus when there was already another Jesus
supposedly walking about?
If joe is supposed to be all these people are you telling us that Baba
was now suddenly two people during his life?
>Study The Revelation in the Bible regarding this sixth seal,
>study THOTH, and investigated what was happening on the world scene in
>1945 when this seal was opened. Then see if you still feel you need
>to correct what we have posted.
Have done, hence why I find your claim to be false.
>>Yep that about sums up the total of your evidence -a feeling which you
>>assume came from the Holy Spirit-.
>>
>>Student.
>
>Student, I hate to say this but I must: all you did with your
>above statement is to prove that you do not understand how the Spirit
>of God works.
Not really because you have no proof, your 'feelings' are not
evidence, many people feel different things and are 'led' to different
conclusions all you have stated is that you based the beginning of
your involvement with this sect/cult on a feeling.
So do many others, and they are just as convinced as you that they are
also right despite what evidence is before them.
Is it the work of the Spirit of God which leads some of them to
suicide cults? Is it God's Spirit which leads them to stock up on
weapons, to be racists? Look at their testimonies and then try to tell
me about your feelings.
>Maybe my words sound harsh, but in my heart I truly wish there
>were something I could say or do to help you.
Fair enough. Real proof would help.
>I know how hard it is,
>this journey from the lower nature to the higher nature, because I am
>walking it myself.
Many try to better themselves and in this there is much merit, but it
can also be done without holding onto a man who claims to be things he
is not.
>God alone knows my heart. I pray for you. And
>not only for you but for all of us who are on this journey.
Thanks prayers are good.
> May we
>never weaken. May we never give up. May we constantly keep our eyes
>focused on God, and trust His Guidance totally and forever.
Then if the above is true perhaps it is time for you to cast joe away
and really find the meaning to those questions you want answers to,
look into those Scriptures you just cast aside as 'corrupted, dead
etc' and you will find (free from joes influence) that joe does not
come even close to them.
joe is distorting the Scriptures whether they be Christian, Muslim,
Buddhist or Bahai and it is sad to see that what he offers in their
place is only a superficial and pale image of their original beauty
and meaning.
Student.
Dolores Vogelsang
Yes. This Messenger has always come to the earth in the same
manner. Abraham, Esa (Jesus), Prophet Muhammed, the Bab, Baba, and
now Maitreya (JME) were all born of a human mother.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:51:47 +0300, "Lubna" <l.da...@duc.com.kw>
wrote:
Dolores Vogelsang
wrote:
>
>You are wrong again, now back to the question of evidence? Where did
>Muhammed say this? He didn't did He?
>
No matter what you post, I will continue to search. I already
told you long ago that I did not know where such a verse was in the
Koran. I read a post on alt.religion.bahai and asked for a reference.
Others answered my post claiming I said what had been said by the
poster I answered (which I also have said in previous posts).
Then Joseph posted:
"It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or
mater is that He is the first and the last, the beginning and the end,
the Alpha and the Omega. He is the One who has opened the Seven
Seals, the Major religions on earth, The Eternal Divine Path. Indeed
Adam, many of the Prophets of the Old Testament and many Manifestation
of God in Hinduism and other religion, Christ , Muhammed, Bab, etc.
are all the same Spirit. All Great Revelation has come through/by
Him, One God, the only God the Revealer of His Mystery! That is also
why: No one goes to the Father/God but through Him (Eternal Divine
Path, The Seven Seals, His Path, Mystery and Revelations)!"
That was the perfect answer.
Why all this argument? Again, I ask, why don't we try to find
the truth? The truth is what is important! The Truth will guide us to
walk and become the Path.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Sandy Kear
>
>
> Why all this argument?
Because you stated that the prophet Mohammed said something and were willing
to put forth any writings that supported your claim as fact. You were not at
all interested in the truth, only finding something to prop up your own
belief.
That is dishonest and deceitful. It certainly makes it appear that Joseph is
far, far more interested in having his followers promote h-i-m than show any
shred of integrity.
Sandy
Born Again
of Paul contradict those of Jesus.
BA
Sentience
>Hello Lubna,
> Yes. This Messenger has always come to the earth in the same
>manner. Abraham, Esa (Jesus), Prophet Muhammed, the Bab, Baba, and
>now Maitreya (JME) were all born of a human mother.
What dolores didn't tell you Lubna is that joe (jme) was also born of
a normal human and earthly father (and his mother already had children
-so he was not even the firstborn-), so he can not be compared to the
True Messiah's birth.
Both the Holy Qur'an and the Bible clearly state the Messiah's birth
was unique, while joes birth was just a normal everyday birth, nothing
unique about it.
That is the part they conveniently forgot to tell you :-)
Student.
Sentience
>>You are wrong again, now back to the question of evidence? Where did
>>Muhammed say this? He didn't did He?
dolores answered:
>No matter what you post, I will continue to search. I already
>told you long ago that I did not know where such a verse was in the
>Koran.
Because there simply is no such ayat, and once again you have no
evidence for your joes claims.
In fact his claims that Jesus/Krishna Muhammed (PBUH) are all one and
the same person sharply contradict what the Holy Qur'an (and the
Hadiths) has to say for itself.
Pretty simple when you just look at the evidence.
>I read a post on alt.religion.bahai and asked for a reference.
>Others answered my post claiming I said what had been said by the
>poster I answered (which I also have said in previous posts).
That is not in question, what is in question is that you do not have
one single Surah to back up your claims when there is tons of evidence
to show that Muhammed (PBUH) did know who He was, what His mission was
about, and that Jesus (Issa) was a completely different person to
Himself.
Naturally all of this you must choose to ignore because once again it
contradicts joes claims and theories. Hardly honest and open minded
I'd dare say.
You also appear to grasp onto anything which you think may validate
one of joes errors, hence why you latched onto the Bahai post,
unfortunately once again you made an error because Muhammed (PBUH)
never said any such thing.
>Then Joseph posted:
>"It was not necessary for Prophet Muhammed to know this, or
>for it to be revealed to humanity, in that time.
See how deceptive the answer joe gave really is? The evidence of the
Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths completely contradict joes statements but
because he says something like the above you automatically throw all
that evidence out, and make it appear that Muhammed (PBUH) didn't
really know who He was, and why does joe once again have to do this?
Simply so that joe can hold onto his blunder.
As I have said before using your logic we can say joe is really the
tooth fairy and disregard everything he has to say to the contrary,
throw out his thoth, your testimony and the rest and just believe in
some ones words at a later date. You see joe really doesn't know who
he is, pretty stupid isn't it?
>That was the perfect answer.
That was an feeble attempt at an excuse and you know it, the evidence
once again proves his claims wrong you are still grasping at straws,
and now it looks like as per usual you see fit to grasp onto anything
which you assume gets you out of joes blunder.
Now it appears joe claims he knows Muhammed (PBUH) better than
Muhammed knows himself again without any real evidence.
>Why all this argument?
Because you are wrong. People shouldn't just idly sit by when you are
saying things which are wrong.
> Again, I ask, why don't we try to find
>the truth? The truth is what is important! The Truth will guide us to
>walk and become the Path.
If the above excuses are your example of truth, you have a long way to
go in honesty and simple reasoning from the Scriptures and the
evidence.
Lets hope you have the honesty to look at the evidence again and let
the Great Books speak for themselves.
Student.
Dolores Vogelsang
wrote:
>I have plenty of evidence to show you are wrong, so now please show us
>your scriptural evidence which states (from the Qur'an) that Jesus =
>Muhammed.
>
>As per usual you don't have any, and joes attempt at answering this
>was most humorous I must admit, pity his excuses just don't wash.
>
>Student.
"Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that
the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?" (Matthew
15:12)
"But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly
Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:13)
"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if
the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (Matthew
15:14)
<11>His disciples told him that the Pharisees were offended.
<12>However, Christ was not here to please men, but to say the truth.
<13>If the truth offends someone it is not the fault of the Prophet
but it is the filthiness of that person which will cause him to be
offended. That is why Christ referred to them as the blind leaders
that only the blind (spiritually) would follow. Then both would fall
together into the grip of the illusion of this world, "into the
ditch."
"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this
parable." (Matthew 15:15)
"And Esa said, Are ye also yet without understanding?"
(Matthew 15:16)
<14>Esa became surprised that after all this time and effort
he had put on his disciples, they still did not understand such a
simple parable and teaching.
"Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the
mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?"
(Matthew 15:17)
"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth
from the heart; and they defile the man." (Matthew 15:18)
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders,
adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"
(Matthew 15:19)
Taken from The Holiest Of The Holies (THOTH), Tablet Twenty-Four,
verses 11-14. This chapter can be found on our web site at:
http://www.maitreya.org/files/thoth.win/matthew.doc
Posted by Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
You know, Student, we are again going around in circles. I
answer your question, you asks the same question again. Maitreya
(JME) answers your question, and you say, "his excuses just don't
wash."
The above is my last answer to you.
Goodbye!
Dolores
Dolores Vogelsang
Hello BA,
This subject has come up so many times on these newsgroups,
and nothing is ever resolved. I have also posted (not to these recent
threads) that what Paul said and what Esa said were very different.
BA, Paul was not the Messiah. He was not the Christ, the Lamb
of God who opens the seals. If you look in the Bible you will see
that many times Esa had to explain to his disciples what he meant.
It is not easy to understand one who is so connected to God,
one who is the way and the truth. He speaks from Pure Consciousness
and most of us are in our lower natures. It's like when Esa was
trying to explain being born again to Nicodemus.
If you really want to know the truth, BA, you will have to go
to work yourself. No one can do this for you. I will give you some
hints, but I will not "quote all the verses."
What day is the Sabbath, and should we follow it or not? Did
Esa ever say that any of the Laws of God were done away with? What
did Esa actually say about being "born again?" Now, what did Paul say
on these issues?
Within the last month there has been a wonderful thread about
this very subject on this alt.bible.prophecy newsgroup. Didn't you
contribute to that discussion? I believe the header was "Paul &
Satanic Atonement?" It seems that the main contributors were Eli
(Michael), Bruce Morgan, DW Suiter, etc etc etc.
Anyway, there is always deja news.
Dolores
http://www.maitreya.org
Sandy Kear
> This subject has come up so many times on these newsgroups,
>and nothing is ever resolved. I have also posted (not to these recent
>threads) that what Paul said and what Esa said were very different.
I don't recall having ever seen you post scriptures to support your claim,
although you are the ones who keep bringing this up. How about posting the
scriptures for which he asked, rather than doing the same side-step you've
been pulling every time you make a claim?
Sandy
Born Again
Ah, taking the Sabbath as an item of discussion? What do you have in common with
the SDA church? They are famous for misinterpreting the Sabbath and its New
Testament meaning. Although you are not a SDA member, there is a wonderfull site
for you called "Sabbath-Keepers Refuted." I don't have the time to swim in this
vast sea of differences in interpretations, but suffice to say that one does not
need to keep the Old Testament Sabbath, which was on Saturday, and one does not
even HAVE to go to church on Sunday. This may surprise you, but its so. I won't
answer the other questions you asked, you give your interpretation, and I'll
refute them.
BA
On 14 Aug 1998 14:02:52 GMT, dolo...@worldnet.att.net (Dolores Vogelsang)
wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:13:18 GMT, victo...@merlins-cave.com (Born
>Again) wrote:
>
>>Please explain to me, and quote all the verses, why you claim that the teachings
>>of Paul contradict those of Jesus.
>>
>>BA
>
>Hello BA,
> This subject has come up so many times on these newsgroups,
>and nothing is ever resolved. I have also posted (not to these recent
>threads) that what Paul said and what Esa said were very different.
James Miller
[ Q'uran, Surah 5, v.54 - Trans. Abddullah Yusuf Ali ]
If you hold the Q'uran to be true, you must accept what is written therein.
No one is trying to make the argument that Mohammed is Jesus, or that Jesus
is Mohammed. The point that is being made is that "Allah encompasseth all".
If you worship and Allah who is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent,
then you worship an Allah who has always been, who will always be. How is it
that you find it so difficult to accept the Bahai claim that this same God
has manifest His word to genuine seekers since the beginning of time?
The argument being made is that the Eternal God (called in your religious
language, Allah) has spoken His word through many beings.
The only motivations for rejecting such an argument are pride ( you want to
have an exclusive claim to God ) and ignorance ( you have not studied the
other spiritual traditions to see that their teachings are the same ).
If the Allah that you worship is not the Eternal God which has been
manifesting Himself through spiritual masters, teachers, avatars, and
prophets, since the beginning of time: then you do not worship the Allah of
the Holy Q'uran. Allah has no limitations, there is nothing which Allah is
not.
Born Again
wrote:
>No I didn't read the thread, because the title caused revulsion in my spirit.
>Ah, taking the Sabbath as an item of discussion? What do you have in common with
>the SDA church? They are famous for misinterpreting the Sabbath and its New
>Testament meaning. Although you are not a SDA member, there is a wonderfull site
>for you called "Sabbath-Keepers Refuted." I don't have the time to swim in this
>vast sea of differences in interpretations, but suffice to say that one does not
>need to keep the Old Testament Sabbath, which was on Saturday, and one does not
>even HAVE to go to church on Sunday. This may surprise you, but its so.
This does not mean that gathering with other christians can be forsaken, that is
not what I meant.
BA
DavidB
>
[snipped]
> Why all this argument? Again, I ask, why don't we try to find
> the truth? The truth is what is important! The Truth will guide us to
> walk and become the Path.
>
Hi Dolores,
I just felt compelled to interject a thought here. I agree, The "Truth"
is important.
Pontius Pilate, when standing face to face with The Truth asked, "What
is truth?" (John 18:38). Some people, even when faced with The Truth,
can't recognize it. Why? Because they don't have the Holy Spirit; Yeshua
told his disciples, "He shall guide you into all Truth" (John 16:13).
"Yeshua said, "I AM the Way, THE TRUTH, and the Life, no person can come
unto God, except through me. For there is *no other name* under heaven
by which you might be saved." (John 14:6). He was given a Name above ALL
names (Phillipians 2:9). He also said that those who know not the above,
are not from The Father.
Lastly, Yeshua (Jesus) when He had His last open prayer with His
disciples, asked The Father to "sanctify them with Thy Truth, Thy *Word*
is Truth." (John 17:17). And of course, His Word (The Bible) tells us
clearly that, *Jesus* is *The Word* made flesh (John 1:14).
Dolores, Dolores. You, Debbie, and all the other folks at the Mission
have met a lie (Maitreya) and believed it to be *the truth*. While you
have been given witness to *The Truth* and think it to be a lie. That is
sad.
None the less, I wish you all well.
In Christ,
David
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