Estes E9-4 Bad Deal
Chris Taylor Jr.
GOD !!! at $16.99 a 3 pack they cost more than many Aerotech motors !! and
aerotech motors are lighter more powerful and more varied !!
I assumed the E would be same as old D's $10 for a 3 pack.
I am not paying $6 for an Estes E9 flight !!
RayDunakin
GOD !!! at $16.99 a 3 pack they cost more than many Aerotech motors>>
Yeah, seems like a real rip off to me, especially since they aren't full E's,
just slightly over a D. What's the point of a minimal E, except to rip off poor
suckers who don't know that it's not a full E?
L.C.
Quilly Mammoth
<tt7c5ul...@news.supernews.com>, Chris Taylor Jr. spake thusly:
You can get them for around 10 bucks per card, you don't have to pay $6.00 per
flight. You just have to look. I have done that for you.
Valueland 11.51
Hobby Lobby 11.99 ( but no S&H)
Hobby Linc 10.69
Great Lakes 9.99
Plus S&H of course:)
Quilly Mammoth
"Fantasy is ultimately what fiction is all about. Read it and you will become
again as a little child -- and as wise as Gandalf. Like auctioneers, we should
try to appreciate all kinds of art." Michael Dirda
Jerry Irvine
Mammoth<kali...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:38:08 -0400, in article
> <tt7c5ul...@news.supernews.com>, Chris Taylor Jr. spake thusly:
> >
> >I do not think I will be flying very many of these otherwise cool motors. MY
> >GOD !!! at $16.99 a 3 pack they cost more than many Aerotech motors !! and
The main reason we do not have FSI F100's still today is Lonnie was loath
to raise prices. To the manufacturer it is easy to rmrember what you used
to charge in 1966 or 1976. But the target market is who just joined
rocketry THIS WEEK. Those people become accustomed to whatever price they
enter at. I suggest that price keep you in business.
Jerry
> >aerotech motors are lighter more powerful and more varied !!
> >
> >I assumed the E would be same as old D's $10 for a 3 pack.
> >
> >I am not paying $6 for an Estes E9 flight !!
> >
> >Chris
> >http://www.nerys.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
> You can get them for around 10 bucks per card, you don't have to pay $6.00 per
> flight. You just have to look. I have done that for you.
>
> Valueland 11.51
> Hobby Lobby 11.99 ( but no S&H)
> Hobby Linc 10.69
> Great Lakes 9.99
>
> Plus S&H of course:)
>
> Quilly Mammoth
> "Fantasy is ultimately what fiction is all about. Read it and you will become
> again as a little child -- and as wise as Gandalf. Like auctioneers, we should
> try to appreciate all kinds of art." Michael Dirda
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Jonathan Sivier
I flew my Maniac on an E9-8 this weekend and it was a great flight.
I will certainly be using more of these motors. The price at the local
Hobby Lobby is $12.99 for 3. Which Aerotech single use motors are you
thinking of that cost less than these motors? Some of the smaller reloads
do, but none of the single use as far as I know. Aerotech E15 and E30
cost around $10 at the local shops, though I suppose they might be discounted
from some dealers, but I doubt they are as low as $5 anywhere. While I
would love to see lower prices on all motors I think it is unreasonable to
expect larger motors to sell at the same price as smaller ones.
Jonathan
"Remember to always keep the pointy end up."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jonathan Sivier | Secretary, Central Illinois Aerospace |
| j-si...@uiuc.edu | NAR #56437 |
| Flight Simulation Lab | Tripoli #1906 |
| Beckman Institute | Home Address: |
| 405 N. Mathews | 5 The Summit |
| Urbana, IL 61801 | Champaign, IL 61820 |
| 217/244-1923 | 217/359-8225 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Bishop
Chris Taylor Jr. <nos...@nerys.com> wrote in message
news:tt7c5ul...@news.supernews.com...
David Urbanek
Ah, ever excitable Chris.
Compare single use to single use.
From Discount Rocketry:
a 3 pack of E9 motors costs $13.00.
3 Aerotech E15 motors costs $25.35.
Seems to me that $13.00 is less than $25.35, but then, my math skills migh
be rusty <grin>.
An E9 is a weenie E. But just try to stage a D12 to an E15 sometime and let
me know how it works. E9s have a place. Put two of them into a
LOC/Precision Starburst (or 4 into a Viper IV). Clustering black powder is
a LOT easier than little composite Es.
--
===========================================================================
"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy
for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings."
-- Helen Keller
\ \_____
David Urbanek @@**=[==_____> Rocky Mountain Rocketry
/_/
http://RockyMountainRocketry.com
Da...@fesys.com ==or== Da...@RockyMountainRocketry.com
urb...@budweiser.com
Fred Shecter
or 8 (I can't remember....).
You REALLY appreciate the "sky writing" smoke that Estes added to these
motors!
Thanks!
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
David Urbanek <urb...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:3BD45B20...@surfree.com...
tdstr
David Urbanek wrote:
>
> > "Chris Taylor Jr." wrote:
> > I do not think I will be flying very many of these otherwise cool
> > motors. MY GOD !!! at $16.99 a 3 pack they cost more than many Aerotech
> > motors !! and aerotech motors are lighter more powerful and more
> > varied!!
> >
> > I assumed the E would be same as old D's $10 for a 3 pack.
> >
> > I am not paying $6 for an Estes E9 flight !!
>
> Ah, ever excitable Chris.
>
> Compare single use to single use.
> From Discount Rocketry:
> a 3 pack of E9 motors costs $13.00.
> 3 Aerotech E15 motors costs $25.35.
>
> Seems to me that $13.00 is less than $25.35, but then, my math skills migh
> be rusty <grin>.
>
> An E9 is a weenie E. But just try to stage a D12 to an E15 sometime and let
> me know how it works. E9s have a place. Put two of them into a
> LOC/Precision Starburst (or 4 into a Viper IV). Clustering black powder is
> a LOT easier than little composite Es.
> --
Or do 3 E9-6's in a Viper3....like I'm going to do this Sat :)
Ted Novak
TRA#5512
M Dennett
Fred Shecter <fred.e....@boeing.com> wrote in message
news:GLMGp...@news.boeing.com...
> I have staged them. INSANE altitude! 6 foot long BT-55 model. D12-0 to
E9-6
> or 8 (I can't remember....).
The Dagger I flew this weekend on an E9-8 went way up there too.. with a
small streamer it hits hard though. You need to sand off the fin base tab to
get them to sit flush on the body tube and touch the BT-50 motor mount, then
bond them in with plastic CA or better yet Plastic Welder aka methacrylic
2-part cement. They're pretty tough built this way for D and E flights. You
can knot some kevlar or braided nylon and use the stock shock cord mounting
scheme safely. Good cheap fun. Use a streamer..
Mike D.
YoYo
was no wind today..
I WILL buy more of these babies!
The tracking smoke IS impressive
I paid 19.99 for 3 (Canadian funds, roughly $13 US), and they almost had to
pry the $20 outa my hand the first time, I will gladly give it up next time.
It took my little (110 gram) scratch built to a simulated 2k, far more then
the D maiden flight which preceded it..
Cool motors!
Great flight!
I cant wait to lose a rocket due to staging them..
Estes has a winner in this one!
"Chris Taylor Jr." <nos...@nerys.com> wrote in message
news:tt7c5ul...@news.supernews.com...
Apollo Leader
Some of the specialty stores (ie. HobbyTown) have been selling the three
pack of E9's at $15.99 or higher (like your example). I picked up a pack of
E9's from a Hobby Lobby for $12.99... they may sell cheaper somewhere else
or online.
Apollo Leader
Tom Binford
"tdstr" <td...@foadspammervisi.com> wrote in message
news:3BD48D1D...@foadspammervisi.com...
>
>
> David Urbanek wrote:
>
>
> Or do 3 E9-6's in a Viper3....like I'm going to do this Sat :)
>
I'm building a scaled down Ultimate (3" diameter) for a cluster of 7 E9-8's.
Since the next Orangeburg launch is EX, I'll have to wait until December to
fly it.
Tom
Kevin Trojanowski
are only a "minimal <insert motor class here>". If the motors on the
market were all FULL versions of their motor class, we wouldn't have
near the variety we do now.
I like the idea of a longer burn motor, even if it's only barely above a
D. For certain applications, it's nicer.
-Kevin
Doug Sams
>I'll confess that I've never understood the grumblings about motors that
>are only a "minimal <insert motor class here>". If the motors on the
>market were all FULL versions of their motor class, we wouldn't have
>near the variety we do now.
>
>I like the idea of a longer burn motor, even if it's only barely above a
>D. For certain applications, it's nicer.
>
Kevin,
I'm not singling you out, but I chose your post to reply to in order to set
the record straight.
According to the NAR S&T page, the E is 29.5 Ns while the D is 17, so that's
more than a 50% increase in impulse - hardly "barely above a D". I have
seen
references to it being as low as 27 Ns, but that's still more than 50%
greater
than the D (albeit only 35% above a full D). Nevertheless, I don't think
this
motor is such a wimpy E. It's pretty close to halfway between a full D and
a
full E.
Unfortunately, it may not be well suited for some of the rockets it is
targeted at, but it will be a nice motor for many MR and lo-end mid-power
applications such as my unfinshed Omega-D (Omega-E?). And, as was stated in
another post, ya can't stage an E15 off of a D12.
From what I can tell, the E9 presents a pretty good compromise between
impulse, thrust and reliability. As I understand it, the higher_impulse /
higher_average_thrust BP motors of yesteryear (E15, FSI, etc) were CATO
prone.
So, given the tradeoffs, I'll take a reliable E9 over these others.
So, yes, it will add variety, and I appreciate that.
Doug
Tom Binford
"Kevin Trojanowski" <tr...@nospam.home.com> wrote in message
news:3BD4C28E...@nospam.home.com...
> I'll confess that I've never understood the grumblings about motors that
> are only a "minimal <insert motor class here>". If the motors on the
> market were all FULL versions of their motor class, we wouldn't have
> near the variety we do now.
>
> I like the idea of a longer burn motor, even if it's only barely above a
> D. For certain applications, it's nicer.
Actually, they're about a D and a half (28 N-s).
Tom
Mark Olson
a simulator and then notice the difference. i have an old ranger that will
not get one! i'd like to see it again. for grins take a shadow/optima
clone or a maxi alpha and sim it. no biggie but when two are clustered the
numbers aren't too bad. (nor is the cost, concidering.) like i said just
make do....mark.
"Doug Sams" <doug_m...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3BD7...@MailAndNews.com...
Chris Taylor Jr.
Nice smooth flight with a longer softer burn
PERFECT for the stuff I fly
BUT NOT AT THAT PRICE !!
Grrrr :-)
"RayDunakin" <raydu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011022024644...@mb-ff.aol.com...
Chris Taylor Jr.
I might have to "look" into online buying of motors with prices like that.
Depends on how the shipping divvies out.
even $12 is a bit much when I can get 4 D's for $2 less.
But MUCH MUCH better than $16.99
thanks for the pointers
"Quilly Mammoth" <kali...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:G5VA7.38158$ev2....@www.newsranger.com...
Chris Taylor Jr.
means nothing to me IE you placed the restrictions.
First a 3 pack of E18 or E12 loads is $10
a 3 pack of E9-4's just set me back $16.99 at the local shop !!
using THAT math the E18's are $7 cheaper !
"David Urbanek" <urb...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:3BD45B20...@surfree.com...
Hilty Information Systems
<nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>well I was comparing cost per flight. What I stick in it for that flight
>means nothing to me IE you placed the restrictions.
>
>First a 3 pack of E18 or E12 loads is $10
>
>a 3 pack of E9-4's just set me back $16.99 at the local shop !!
>
>using THAT math the E18's are $7 cheaper !
Yeah, if you don't factor in the cost of the 24/40 case, and the
"labor" of assembling each motor.
E9's.. pop in an ignitor, pop motor into rocket... go..
tah
Tod A. Hilty NAR #72099
Hilty Information Systems
--
Member MTMA, NAR Section #606
Mantua Township Missile Agency
http://web.raex.com/~markndeb/rockets/mtma/
"I'm going to put the wheels of the bus back on... just in case"
- BlankReg, Max Headroom: 20 Minutes Into the Future
"I speak for myself _and_ my corporation! Deal with it!"
- blankreg
- remove ihrUnterhose, and replace with adelphia for reply
Hilty Information Systems
<nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>well I was comparing cost per flight. What I stick in it for that flight
>means nothing to me IE you placed the restrictions.
>
>First a 3 pack of E18 or E12 loads is $10
>
>a 3 pack of E9-4's just set me back $16.99 at the local shop !!
>
>using THAT math the E18's are $7 cheaper !
Yeah, if you don't factor in the cost of the 24/40 case, and the
Mike Hellmund
Of course you have to factor in the amortized cost of the relaod casing.
After 10 to 15 flights it may be cheaper if you don't lose the casing....
Mike
"Chris Taylor Jr." <nos...@nerys.com> wrote in message
news:tta63jk...@news.supernews.com...
Jonathan Sivier
>hmmm I tend to buy motors from BAM's
>I might have to "look" into online buying of motors with prices like that.
>Depends on how the shipping divvies out.
>even $12 is a bit much when I can get 4 D's for $2 less.
Actually you are getting a bargain with the Es. Assuming $4 for each E9
and $2.50 for each D (your example above) that gives
29 nt-sec/$4 = 7.25 nt-sec/$ for the Es and 17 nt-sec/$2.50 = 6.8 nt-sec/$
for the Ds.
J Ruzzi
two-stager for my daughter. When I built it, I put the motor block at the
appropriate place for the new E motors and I also left off the motor hook. I
launched it this weekend at Rhodesdale in single stage mode with an E9-8. It
was an amazingly high flight. For recovery, I used a 12" Estes chute. It came
down fine.
Next time I'm at a big field, I'm going to do the D12 staging to the E9. That
should be an awesome flight.
Joe
PeteAlway
glorious flight. Yeah, pricey--I only bought them because I had just sold some
books to the vendor and I was feeling rich--but definitely a fun engine.
Peter Alway
Saturn Press
PO Box 3709
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-3709
http://members.aol.com/satrnpress/saturn.htm
Free scale data at:
http://yellowjacketsystems.com/alway/Default.htm
David Urbanek
>
> well I was comparing cost per flight. What I stick in it for that
> flight means nothing to me IE you placed the restrictions.
>
> First a 3 pack of E18 or E12 loads is $10
>
> a 3 pack of E9-4's just set me back $16.99 at the local shop !!
>
> using THAT math the E18's are $7 cheaper !
You want me to believe that the same hobby store selling the E9 motors for
$16.99 are also selling Aerotech E18 three packs for $10.00? BS. The list
price of a 3 pack of E18s is $14.95.
So the difference per flight between the E9 and the E18, at list price, is
$0.68.
So, let's see you get all apoplectic about a whole friggin' sixty eight
cents. Oh my GOD! Sixty eight cents!!!!
They have their place. They're not a bad deal. You are entitled to your
opinion, of course.
--
===========================================================================
"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more
than he knows." -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
David Urbanek
> Chris,
> Of course you have to factor in the amortized cost of the relaod casing.
> After 10 to 15 flights it may be cheaper if you don't lose the casing....
> Mike
First off, Chris's local guy is gouging him. List price of an E9 three pack
is $15.99. List price of an E18 three pack is $14.95. List price of a
24/40 RMS is $44.95.
Thus the per-flight difference that has Chris all freakin' out is . . .
$0.35. Yep, a horrible, unmanagble, thirty five cents.
At that price per flight, it will take 129 flights before the Aerotech
system starts being cheaper.
--
===========================================================================
"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more
than he knows." -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Fred Shecter
Some local hobby shops do not order through an intelligent distributor and
therefore have their motors shipped via UPS which charges a HUGE HAZMAT fee.
They spread this out by adding $1 to each pack of motors.
Yuck.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
David Urbanek <urb...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:3BD59C0F...@surfree.com...
Jerry Irvine
<fred.e....@boeing.com> wrote:
> Not necessarily gouging:
>
> Some local hobby shops do not order through an intelligent distributor and
> therefore have their motors shipped via UPS which charges a HUGE HAZMAT fee.
> They spread this out by adding $1 to each pack of motors.
>
> Yuck.
Part of that is that model rocket motors which are even ATF exempt are not
exempt from DOT regs entirely under a certain weight, say 10 pounds. I
have asked NAR to work with me to correct that, to deaf ears.
Gary has stated he does not have the capital to perform the tests and I
suspect that has never been more true than today.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Rhhickok
debater. -- Richard "Big Chris can handle it" Hickok
Bob Kaplow
> << I do not think I will be flying very many of these otherwise cool motors. MY
> GOD !!! at $16.99 a 3 pack they cost more than many Aerotech motors>>
>
> just slightly over a D. What's the point of a minimal E, except to rip off poor
> suckers who don't know that it's not a full E?
Well, the E9 is about 150% of the D12. D12s are up to $10 a pack, so E9s at
$15 a pack isn't "unreasonable". It *IS* more expensive than a pack of E18
reloads that have more power and CAN lift those rockets that the E9 won't.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the
principles of a democratic society, accountable government and
international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner
consistent with the Constitution.
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Mike Hellmund
recovery system or ejects the casing into never-neverland.
"David Urbanek" <urb...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:3BD59C0F...@surfree.com...
> At that price per flight, it will take 129 flights before the erotech
> system starts being cheaper.
Hilty Information Systems
wrote:
>I agree. A couple of months ago I built a purple Custom Rockets "Lightnin'"
>two-stager for my daughter. When I built it, I put the motor block at the
>appropriate place for the new E motors and I also left off the motor hook. I
>launched it this weekend at Rhodesdale in single stage mode with an E9-8. It
>was an amazingly high flight. For recovery, I used a 12" Estes chute. It came
>down fine.
>
>Next time I'm at a big field, I'm going to do the D12 staging to the E9. That
>should be an awesome flight.
>
>Joe
Hey Joe! Got your email, and it's good to hear the Lightnin's flying
well!
Mine's been on the bench for quite awhile after being maimed by some
"free range children" a couple of launches back. Just got 'er fixed
up last week, and it should be ready to fly again this Sunday!
*If* it doesn't snow too much!
<vbg>
Neil Tarasoff
E9's at:
http://www.greatlakeshobbies.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scstore+lpsq9163ff251e25+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+EST1673
are $9.99 a pack of 3.
I have had enough of this thread. Can we go somewhere else. Please,
please, please.
Neil Tarasoff
The Silent Observer
>
> Well, the E9 is about 150% of the D12. D12s are up to $10 a pack, so E9s at
> $15 a pack isn't "unreasonable". It *IS* more expensive than a pack of E18
> reloads that have more power and CAN lift those rockets that the E9 won't.
>
OTOH, consider that you need about $120 worth of hardware to fly a 3
motor cluster of E18, while you only need the $15 worth of motors to fly
a three cluster of E9. Not to mention that igniting three BP motors is
a lot more reliable than igniting three composite reloads...
--
This space temporarily vacant. Look for more wit and wisdom in the
next iteration.
Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer NAR # 70141-SR Insured
Rocket Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
Telescope Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm
Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.
Jerry Irvine
<sil...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Bob Kaplow wrote:
> >
> > Well, the E9 is about 150% of the D12. D12s are up to $10 a pack, so E9s at
> > $15 a pack isn't "unreasonable". It *IS* more expensive than a pack of E18
> > reloads that have more power and CAN lift those rockets that the E9 won't.
> >
>
> OTOH, consider that you need about $120 worth of hardware to fly a 3
> motor cluster of E18, while you only need the $15 worth of motors to fly
> a three cluster of E9. Not to mention that igniting three BP motors is
> a lot more reliable than igniting three composite reloads...
PLEASE do not confuse rmr readers with facts.
Thank you.
Jerry
>
> --
> This space temporarily vacant. Look for more wit and wisdom in the
> next iteration.
>
> Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer NAR # 70141-SR Insured
> Rocket Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/launches.htm
> Telescope Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/astronomy.htm
> Lathe Pages http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm
>
> Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
> and don't expect them to be perfect.
--
Bob Kaplow
Thanks to a stroke of luck, and someone finding the rocket I lost at Bong
this summer, I'm up to 176 RMS flights without a lost casing. Knock on balsa
wood...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
We have awakened a sleeping giant and instilled in it a terrible
resolve. -- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, WWII.
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
David Urbanek
> Thanks to a stroke of luck, and someone finding the rocket I lost at
> Bong this summer, I'm up to 176 RMS flights without a lost casing. Knock
> on balsa wood...
I've never lost a motor case. I still have the 29/40-120 case that I bought
in September of 1998. I don't know how many flights that case has on it,
but it's a bunch. I still have my first 24/40 case too.
--
===========================================================================
"I was going to buy a copy of The Power of Positive Thinking, and then I
thought: What the hell good would that do?" -- Ronnie Shakes
_
Steve
\
WRONG !!!
The list price is $15.35 and we have them at 30% below that !!!
www.commonwealth.net
734-282-1055
Steve @cdi
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 01:38:08 -0400, "Chris Taylor Jr."
<nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>I do not think I will be flying very many of these otherwise cool motors. MY
>GOD !!! at $16.99 a 3 pack they cost more than many Aerotech motors !! and
>aerotech motors are lighter more powerful and more varied !!
>
>I assumed the E would be same as old D's $10 for a 3 pack.
>
>I am not paying $6 for an Estes E9 flight !!
>
>Chris
>http://www.nerys.com/
>
>
>
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Andy Eng
If you get a chance to mingle with some "old timers" with some
thermalite, give the D12 to F101 a try. :-)
Andy
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:51:58 -0400, J Ruzzi <ruzzi_...@bah.com>
wrote:
>I agree. A couple of months ago I built a purple Custom Rockets "Lightnin'"
Chris Taylor Jr.
With even the number of motors I have flown (not that many) the amortized
cost of the case is close enough to zero to stop counting it
"Hilty Information Systems" <hil...@ihrUnterhose.net> wrote in message
news:3bd5698b...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Chris Taylor Jr.
shipping !!
<$4 is worth every penny for these cool motors.
"Neil Tarasoff" <neilc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3BD5DDF2...@home.com...
Chris Taylor Jr.
What I pay is all that matters.
I walked into a hobby shop and paid $16.99 for a 3 pack of E9-4's
I walked into Chad Rings Room at Naram this past summer and paid $9.99 a
pack for E18-4's (which are NOW going for $14.95 but that is a mitigating
circumstance)
I got 4 packs from him plus a fifth on my way out. I flew 3 so I got some
12 left. They will last a while - Probably until next naram since I use
them only for my camera rocket.
My whole uproar was at the VERY high cost of the Estes E compared to the
Aerotech E's
"David Urbanek" <urb...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:3BD59A0C...@surfree.com...
Chris Taylor Jr.
Hence why I enjoy Nano Motors so much !! :-)
they actually cost quite a lot on a buck per newton scale. but on a per
flight scale they are unbeatable :-)
"Jonathan Sivier " <j-si...@uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:vkgB7.9513$sc.1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
Hilty Information Systems
<nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>for $7 I can eat a little labor :-)
Yeah, me too! The E18W reload is probably my absolute favorite for
the 24/40 RMS. Extremely loud lil' guy there..
<g>
>With even the number of motors I have flown (not that many) the amortized
>cost of the case is close enough to zero to stop counting it
Same here. I've long lost count of how many times I've used my 24/40.
Plus, the impulse, delay, and propellant formulation flexibility of
all RMS's is, IMHO, worth the extra cost.
My 29 40/120 is becoming very "well used" too!
Bob Kaplow
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:04:53 -0400, "Chris Taylor Jr."
> <nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>
>>for $7 I can eat a little labor :-)
>
> Yeah, me too! The E18W reload is probably my absolute favorite for
> the 24/40 RMS. Extremely loud lil' guy there..
>
> <g>
>
>>With even the number of motors I have flown (not that many) the amortized
>>cost of the case is close enough to zero to stop counting it
>
> Same here. I've long lost count of how many times I've used my 24/40.
> Plus, the impulse, delay, and propellant formulation flexibility of
> all RMS's is, IMHO, worth the extra cost.
My favorite 24/40 is the E28-4. Mostly because I've got a pencil bank rocket
that's only got a 24mm MMT and is WAY too heavy for D12s et al. I've got 34
flights on my 24/40.
> My 29 40/120 is becoming very "well used" too!
33 flights. And before someone asks, 42 on the 18/20, 36 on the 29/180-240
and 31 on the 38mm hardware.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --
Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania. 1759
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Cochran Ted
hil...@ihrUnterhose.net (Hilty Information Systems) wrote:
>Same here. I've long lost count of how many times I've used my 24/40.
>Plus, the impulse, delay, and propellant formulation flexibility of
>all RMS's is, IMHO, worth the extra cost.
To say nothing of the ability to moderate the ejection charge so that is
appropriate for the particular rocket it is in....
--tc
My opinions only.
David Urbanek
> My whole uproar was at the VERY high cost of the Estes E compared to the
> Aerotech E's
But you generalized based solely on a single circumstance that is abnormal
and non-repeatble. Sloppy thinking, very sloppy.
--
===========================================================================
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like
to pee a lot." -- Capital Brewery, Middleton, WI
_
Wolfram v.Kiparski
<nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>My whole uproar was at the VERY high cost of the Estes E compared to the
>Aerotech E's
Of course they cost more. That shouldn't have shocked anyone.
Compare the price of an Estes single-use E motor to an Aerotech
single-use motor. Decrease the price of an Aerotech single-use E
by 75 percent for a real dollar/N-s comparison.
Still got sticker shock? $6.00 packs of B motors are coming our way!
Wolf
////////remove SPAM from email address////////
import javax.swing.*;
public class spamNot
{
public static void main(String args[])
{
StringBuffer buffer = new StringBuffer("astro...@alltel.SPAMNOT.net");
buffer.delete(18, 26);
String output = buffer.toString();
JOptionPane.showMessageDialog(null, output, "Wolf's email address",
JOptionPane.INFORMATION_MESSAGE);
System.exit(0);
}
}
Jonathan Sivier
>> "Chris Taylor Jr." wrote:
>> My whole uproar was at the VERY high cost of the Estes E compared to the
>> Aerotech E's
>But you generalized based solely on a single circumstance that is abnormal
>and non-repeatble. Sloppy thinking, very sloppy.
He also compared single use to reloadable. The retail price per
motor shouldn't be the only criterion for declaring a motor "good" or
"not good". What the motor is to be used for and convenience also have to
come into the equation. At this rate he'll be comparing a Quest MicroMaxx
to an Aerotech M reload and declare the MicroMaxx a much superior motor
because it costs so much less. To compare these motors like this is
ridiculous of course, but that's what you get when the only thing you look
at is the price.
Bob Kaplow
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:11:44 -0400, "Chris Taylor Jr."
> <nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>
>>My whole uproar was at the VERY high cost of the Estes E compared to the
>>Aerotech E's
>
> Of course they cost more. That shouldn't have shocked anyone.
> Compare the price of an Estes single-use E motor to an Aerotech
> single-use motor. Decrease the price of an Aerotech single-use E
> by 75 percent for a real dollar/N-s comparison.
I think you mean 25%, not 75%...
> Still got sticker shock? $6.00 packs of B motors are coming our way!
Those Quest bulk packs at about $1 per motor (1.12 per B6-4, 1.20 for C6-5)
are looking better and better. Hey, Dane, how about D12-3 bulk packs!
Speaking of which, has any one found a store carrying Quest motors, other
than the Micro Maxx?
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
The problem with governments is that citizens need to keep
them on a short leash; unfortunately the nature of the beast
is such that governments can usually arrange it so that only
they hold their own leash.
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Bob Kaplow
> David Urbanek <urb...@surfree.com> writes:
>
>>> "Chris Taylor Jr." wrote:
>>> My whole uproar was at the VERY high cost of the Estes E compared to the
>>> Aerotech E's
>
>>But you generalized based solely on a single circumstance that is abnormal
>>and non-repeatble. Sloppy thinking, very sloppy.
>
> He also compared single use to reloadable. The retail price per
I don't have a problem with that. I fly almost exclusively reloads in the
above 20ns space. I'd consider the Estes E9 vs AT E11 a fair comparison. The
only place the E9 wins over the E11 is the ignitor. I flew my NARAM-43 scale
model on an E11. NFW would I fly it on an E9.
Quilly Mammoth
<yc1z0K...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Kaplow spake thusly:
>
snip
>
>Speaking of which, has any one found a store carrying Quest motors, other
>than the Micro Maxx?
>
> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Yes.
Quilly Mammoth
"Fantasy is ultimately what fiction is all about. Read it and you will become
again as a little child -- and as wise as Gandalf. Like auctioneers, we should
try to appreciate all kinds of art." Michael Dirda
Bob Kaplow
> On 27 Oct 2001 08:36:47 -0500, in article
> <yc1z0K...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Kaplow spake thusly:
>>than the Micro Maxx?
>
Well. Where?
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it
with religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Quilly Mammoth
<YDb0MV...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Kaplow spake thusly:
>
>In article <FKBC7.2777$xS6....@www.newsranger.com>, Quilly Mammoth<kali...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> On 27 Oct 2001 08:36:47 -0500, in article
>> <yc1z0K...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Bob Kaplow spake thusly:
>>>Speaking of which, has any one found a store carrying Quest motors, other
>>>than the Micro Maxx?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>Well. Where?
Chris Taylor Jr.
less in bulk etc..\
"Wolfram v.Kiparski" <astro...@alltel.SPAMNOT.net> wrote in message
news:3bd9abe5...@news.alltel.net...
Chris Taylor Jr.
repeatable source of $9.99 a pack E18's (and if you buy say 5 or packs the
shipping is less tan 40 cents a motor)
I can go back to allied hobbies ANY allied hobbies as many times as I want
wherever I want whenever I want and if they have E9-4's they will be 16.99
Please explain the singular or circumstantial nature of my claim.
I will NOT buy Estes E's in BAM's at that price. I will use Quilly's link
to get them for $9.99 depending on if I get good shipping in bulk
"David Urbanek" <urb...@surfree.com> wrote in message
news:3BD9B747...@surfree.com...
Chris Taylor Jr.
that is why I fly sooooo many micro maxx motors :-)
hehehe
I base my motor buying on either need or price per flight !!
In the end if I have a choice price per flight wins.
The exception is flying my blackbird. it was worth 6 or 7 dollars a flight.
although I plan to remedy this by using lighter gear so the added weight of
an RMS is not such a penalty thereby GREATLY reducing my per flight cost for
the blackbird.
Rocketry is a VERY monetary sport for me. IE I am NOT rich and per flight
cost is very important.
Hence why WHEN I get into HPR it will be for a mere few flight a year. and
not much L2 or L3 stuff. simply toooo much money. Not enough bang for the
buck in my book.
but then what please me may not be what it takes to please you.
"Jonathan Sivier " <j-si...@uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:_7lC7.99$Wa1....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
Chris Taylor Jr.
a factor for me.
if I could get an equivalent Single use for the same price as a reload I
would almost always use the SU
but when the price difference is that big the RMS wins hands down.
Consider why labor does not count. it takes NOTHING out of my pocket except
a little assembly time. that is well worth that kind of savings.
"Bob Kaplow" <kapl...@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message
news:kNuRBs...@eisner.encompasserve.org...
Mike Pearson <see .sig>
> Chris, you're always the debater. And in a big enough group, you're a mass
> debater. -- Richard "Big Chris can handle it" Hickok
...and when he gets good enough at it, he'll be a master debater.
--
Mike
NAR #70953 - Sr/HPR Level-1 ~ SeaNAR - The Seattle NAR Section #568
NO Junk Email, please! Real email to: amphoto [at] blarg [dot] net.
<Vegetables aren't food; vegetables are what the food eats!>
Chris Taylor Jr.
"Mike Pearson <see .sig>" <nojunk@this_address.com> wrote in message
news:1f1yhtc.1773l2g11zoiw4N%nojunk@this_address.com...
Alan Rognlie
in message news:YDb0MV...@eisner.encompasserve.org...
>Speaking of which, has any one found a store carrying Quest
motors, other
>than the Micro Maxx?
Nelson's Variety up in Racine, WI carried a small selection
last I checked.
It was in the northside store on Douglas Ave, not the
westown store on Washington.
Mind you, it's been almost a year since I've been there but
it might be worth a call.
-- Al Rognlie NAR 71223 Sr
WOOSH, NIRA, SeaNAR and Washington Aerospace
Bob Kaplow
They;e been here for a while. Stopped at Michaels yesterday with 40% off
coupon. Bs are 6.49 a pak and Cs 6.99. Still no Ds or bigger at Michaels...
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
You [should] not examine legislation in the light of the
benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the
light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause if
improperly administered -- Lyndon Johnson, former President of
the U.S.
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Bob Kaplow
> Rhhickok <rhhi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris, you're always the debater. And in a big enough group, you're a mass
>> debater. -- Richard "Big Chris can handle it" Hickok
>
> ...and when he gets good enough at it, he'll be a master debater.
maybe he should take up fishing instead of debating...
;-)
Wolfram v.Kiparski
<nos...@nerys.com> wrote:
>if my debating is not good enough I just resort to biting Grrrrr :-)
>
>Chris
>http://www.nerys.com/
C'mon Chris.... get a grip already....
Wolf
Wolfram v.Kiparski
(Bob Kaplow) wrote:
>In article <3bd9abe5...@news.alltel.net>, astro...@alltel.SPAMNOT.net (Wolfram v.Kiparski) writes:
>> Still got sticker shock? $6.00 packs of B motors are coming our way!
>
>They;e been here for a while. Stopped at Michaels yesterday with 40% off
>coupon. Bs are 6.49 a pak and Cs 6.99. Still no Ds or bigger at Michaels...
You can guess how long I've avoided buying retail motors.
I wonder if we can coax Estes into sticking 25-100 motors in a plastic
bag, stapling it shut, and selling the motors for less. ???
They can even leave out the igniters....
Bob Kaplow
> I wonder if we can coax Estes into sticking 25-100 motors in a plastic
> bag, stapling it shut, and selling the motors for less. ???
> They can even leave out the igniters....
Actually, if you look at the current price of a 6 pack of igniters,
calculate the cost per igniter, and then subtract that from the price of a
4-pack of mini motors, you'll find that the motor is cheaper than the
igniter!
And the pyrogen coating on the igniters is so wimpy that half of them are
broken before you get them home from the store. The ones left are so small
they fit the Apogee micro motors (any one remember them :-) ) and event he
Quest Micro Maxx motors!
Most folks don't realize it, including the totally clueless penrose bean
counters, but the primary function of the pyrogen coating on the Solar
igniter is not to improve ignition, but to protect the sensitive tip from
shipping damage.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/MayJun00.pdf
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
This is a country which stands tallest in troubled times, a country
that clings to fundamental principles, cherishes its constitutional
heritage, and rejects simple solutions that compromise the values
that lie at the roots of our democratic system. -- Supreme Court
Justice Thurgood Marshall, 1972
Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Chris Taylor Jr.
If you can't beat them, Eat them
"Wolfram v.Kiparski" <astro...@alltel.SPAMNOT.net> wrote in message
news:3bdc347c....@news.alltel.net...
Fred Shecter
something about their distributors and Estes availability or minimum
orders....
Watch out for that bad batch of Quest C6-5 motors. Saw one blow yesterday
and *THEN* I checked the code and offered a M.E.S.S. form and my
condolences. I've got the code at home, but a google search should turn it
up:
There it is: Quest C6-5 motors with lot code "0005 03.01" may be defective.
(Google works good these days...)
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Bob Kaplow <kapl...@eisner.encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message
news:yc1z0K...@eisner.encompasserve.org...
Brett Buck
> Watch out for that bad batch of Quest C6-5 motors. Saw one blow yesterday
> and *THEN* I checked the code and offered a M.E.S.S. form and my
> condolences. I've got the code at home, but a google search should turn it
> up:
> There it is: Quest C6-5 motors with lot code "0005 03.01" may be defective.
Funny you should mention it, but I saw a Quest C6-5 that had blown
yesterday at the BayNar launch. Split right down the length, splitting
the fin can on the SkyWinder in which it was enclosed. The propellant
was spit out and burned on the ground. The date code was not visible.
I'd never looked at a Quest motor closely; the case is much thinner than
an Estes 18mm engine, at least on this one.
The was only one of a small portion of the carnage. Had a D12-3
blow, and a lot of unstables. A Big Betty went off-site, and landed in
the intersection of Homestead Road and Stevens Creek. This is a very
busy city street. The model was returned later after having been run
over repeatedly. Time to send it back for warranty replacement. Someone
flew a "Dude" - absolutely absurd flight, boosted to about 25 feet, then
just sort of blew around at random. The parachute is a notional recovery
device at best, it was going way too slow to deploy. Ended up in a
tree, and went flaccid during recovery attempts. This thing cries out
for an Apogee E6 or F10.
My Estes "Raven" (EIRP #23) boosted fine, but then beheaded itself at
ejection. If someone does want to build one of these, be sure to use
*hard* balsa for the fuselage parts, or use 1/64 ply or graphite
laminate doublers at the elevator hinge line. Also, use a stop to
prevent the elevators from dipping down under load - don't count on the
elastic to hold it in place under boost.
Now that 1/2A6-2s are back in production (allegedly), I thought it
was a good time to fly my Estes Falcon again. I was deeply hurt when the
LCO called a heads-up because "boost gliders always loop". Boosted
perfectly, did about a 45 second flight, then oddly flew back in a
straight line to about 10 feet from where I was standing. This thing has
nine lives- it flew through 2 very strong thermals but spun out of both.
It's 3 brothers (all built at the same time in a batch) have all long
since disappeared into various cloud banks. No one believes that it
boosts so well on a 1/2A.
The best prang I have seen in a long time was a 4xA10-0 cluster
staging to 4 individual A3-4t sustainers. Only one motor in the booster
lit, it looped a few times and land-sharked, then the sustainer on the
one good engine went, causing it to land-shark into the crowd. The
booster caught fire via the staging ports, and shortly thereafter, a
second sustainer lit and spun around on the ground for a while. The
booster, with 3 live motors, and the two remaining sustainers, flambe'ed
for a while, until the Carl Reisinger bravely put the whole mess out
with a fire extinguisher. Real crowd-pleaser, too bad there's no video.
Brett
Tom Ha
Tom