I liked the Amiga but X68000 was better IMHO (rant, long)
Amiga was good but
is a 68000-based machine. 10 Mhz!! the X60000 was a totally awesome
Japanese computer from Sharp. it played games that blew the original Amiga
500 out of the water. in terms of hardware sprites and scrolling, it KILLED
the original Amiga series. I mean all the Amigas that used the original or
enhanced chipset. basicly any Amiga from the 1980s.
X68000 was released in 1986, roughly a year after the first Amiga, but for
one year age difference, the performance difference was immense, in certain
areas. The X68000 could support 2 scrolling planes with 256 colors each, at
once. Plus at least 128 sprites. The Amiga could do 32-64 colors on-screen
without special tricks correct?
The X68000 had 65,536 total colors, compared to 4096 for the Amiga. The
X68000 was equal to or better than most arcade machines of 1986. The machine
had a few dozen arcade ports and many of those were literally 99% identical
to the original arcade games. They blew the living hell out of the same or
similar games that were converted, translated or adapted (often horribly) to
the Amiga.
In terms of software base, the Amiga ruled in Europe and America, but not in
Japan. High-powered machines like the X68000 and FM-Towns pretty much
dominated the land of the rising sun in the 80s and early 90s.
If you loved arcade-style games, or anything with lots of hardware
scrolling, sprites and tons of colors on screen (without any HAM tricks)
then you would have loved X68000.
Games like Final Fight, R-Type, Alien Syndrome, Fantasy Zone, SFII, Gradius,
Gradius II, Strider, Ghouls N Ghosts and dozens others were identical or
near-identical to their arcade counter parts. Even scaling-intensive games
like Sega's Space Harrier, ThunderBlade, AfterBurner II, and Super HangOn
were very respectively done on X68000. The arcade versions of those games
featured TWIN 68000s and state of the art video hardware. While X68000 could
*not* match this with its single 68000, it did a superb job compared to
other consumer hardware released in the 1980s. The X68000 did those games
probably something like 50-60% graphically, which is far better than the
15-30% of the Amiga or Megadrive/Genesis versions! Switching gears back to
simpler non-scaling games like Strider or Ghouls N Ghosts--playing a good
X68000 arcade port is like playing the arcade game with almost zero
noticable difference.
I would also make this comparison: In terms of quality of certain types of
games, the X68000 is to the Amiga what the NEO GEO is to the Genesis. That
is, 3~5 times more impressive. Another comparison I would make, is that the
difference in quality between X68000 and Amiga 500 games was probably
GREATER than the difference between Atari ST and Amiga 500 games.
Although admittedly, many Amiga arcade conversions were either ST ports or
horribly crippled because of poor developers and/or lack of resources. To
be fair to the Amiga, if the same high-quality Japanese developers who made
games for X68000 also made Amiga versions, the gulf would not be so
enourmous. Amiga 500 games like Shadow Of The Beast (and others) prove
that--that Amiga could (almost) do 16-bit arcade quality graphics. Still,
the X68000 was a more powerful machine in many areas. that is fact, not
opinion.
I wish there had been a television / console version of the X68000, like
the Commodore CDTV or CD-32.
Does anyone out there share a similar view on X68000, or could offer some
more detailed technical comparasions? I will reply to my own post later
with some hardware specs regardless. Even in 2003, the X68000 is incredibly
impressive to me, concidering it's almost as old as the first Amiga.
I'll leave you with some past comments people have made about the X68000 on
Amiga newsgroups and usenet in general.
http://tinyurl.com/pjqk
"There is a 68000 based machine in Japan from Sharp called the X68000,
which reminds me a lot of the Amiga. It is clearly superior in every
way to the PC, is great for games, has great features built-in, and is
also a relatively poor seller when compared to the PC. In many
respects, the X68000 blows the Amiga away. Like it has had dual
playfields with 256 colors each since day 1, and built in audio and
video digitizers."
http://tinyurl.com/pjqr
"Actually in term of video HW, back in the late 80's machine like the X68000
and FM towns crushed the amiga in terms of sprites, playfield support."
http://tinyurl.com/pjr2
"The X68000 OS lack exec but kick the amiga in the GFX area"
http://tinyurl.com/pjr9
"Like the X68000 for example!
That machine can overlay 2 256 color screen + 256 sprite +
text screen using 16 bit normal memory (3 4 years ago)..."
http://tinyurl.com/pjru
"X68000 > Amiga 500 > Atari 520 ST"
http://tinyurl.com/pjs6
"To anyone looking for 'new' idea... Look at the2 3 year old X68000.
16bit, but use 'multy bus'.With a text mode overlay with all the
diferent video mode up to 2 256 color dualplayfield (plus text mode
overlay) and another mode.
Plus a bank for 65535 colors sprites (alot of them!).So for any kind of
anymation a blitter is useless.
Or the video from the FM_Towns.With hardware posibilities like 360
degrea real time screen rotation on a 24 bitplane screen.
or real time zoom on its linkable sprites etc...
Both have CD suport for year.
The above is what I saw, and both machine are not that expansive (Check
LOGIN for latest price tag). The first is a 680x0 based machine (with
accelerator available) from Sharp.
The second is from Fujitsu, intel based machine :-(
FM_TOWNS 32bit machine, X68000 16bit. You dont have to go 32 bit to
have more power on amiga?! Put 2 set of custom chip in parrale:-)
Stephan"
http://tinyurl.com/pjsb
"You should have seen _my_ face when my friend showed me Strider running on
his
import Sharp X68000, up till then I thought that the Amiga version was the
shit. Well, the X68000 version was a friggin CLONE of the arcade version,
it
made the Amiga version look like a C64 game.
FYI. The X68000 was a machine released by Sharp in Japan and nowhere else,
it
used a 10Mhz 68000 and had hardware scaling (great for 3-d games), up to 16
planes of hardware scrolling (Shadow Of the Beast would have been a cakewalk
as
far as this machine was concerned), and 16-bit highcolor, came with 2 megs
(and
could be expanded up to 12) and was released in 1986, it was basicly an
arcade
machine with a keyboard, it was in fact far more powerfull than the arcade
boards that were around at the time of it's release.
Sharp must have been on drugs not to release that machine worlwide, it
would
have eaten the Amiga alive.
(sorry, I just had to mention this machine, it was a truely amazing
platform)"
http://tinyurl.com/pjt6
"Pac-Mania. There is a very good version of it on the Amiga
>(I think it runs on Fellow/UAE)."
"There is an even better conversion of it for the X68000.
It is (near) arcade perfect, unlike the Amiga version. Same goes to
other X68000 games like Bubble Bobble."
http://tinyurl.com/pjrf
"The amiga HW was nice in the 80s... even then they was much cooler
GFX HW in other computer (X68000, FM-towns). Totaly crushed the
amiga in term of HW design.. that was before the A3000 was out."
Joona I Palaste
on comp.sys.amiga.games:
> Some of you might be asking, wtf is a X68000? Well as the name implies, it
> is a 68000-based machine. 10 Mhz!! the X60000 was a totally awesome
> Japanese computer from Sharp. it played games that blew the original Amiga
> 500 out of the water. in terms of hardware sprites and scrolling, it KILLED
> the original Amiga series. I mean all the Amigas that used the original or
> enhanced chipset. basicly any Amiga from the 1980s.
(snip needlessly long flamebait)
At a cursory glance, your message seems to consist entirely of
comparing the 10 MHz X68000 (which pretty much nobody has heard
about) to a 7 MHz Amiga 500. You must be one of those who think, or
who would like others to think, that the Amiga 500 was the only Amiga
ever made, the be-all and end-all of Amiga computers.
This is far from the truth. Tell me, how would your 10 MHz X68000
compare to my Amiga 4000 with a 50 MHz 68060 with AGA graphics and
50 MB of memory?
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
Pauli Suikka
> Amiga was good but <rxk...@mail.com> scribbled the following
> on comp.sys.amiga.games:
>> Some of you might be asking, wtf is a X68000? Well as the name implies, it
>> is a 68000-based machine. 10 Mhz!! the X60000 was a totally awesome
>> Japanese computer from Sharp. it played games that blew the original Amiga
>> 500 out of the water. in terms of hardware sprites and scrolling, it KILLED
>> the original Amiga series. I mean all the Amigas that used the original or
>> enhanced chipset. basicly any Amiga from the 1980s.
> (snip needlessly long flamebait)
> At a cursory glance, your message seems to consist entirely of
> comparing the 10 MHz X68000 (which pretty much nobody has heard
> about) to a 7 MHz Amiga 500. You must be one of those who think, or
> who would like others to think, that the Amiga 500 was the only Amiga
> ever made, the be-all and end-all of Amiga computers.
> This is far from the truth. Tell me, how would your 10 MHz X68000
> compare to my Amiga 4000 with a 50 MHz 68060 with AGA graphics and
> 50 MB of memory?
Why didn't you just say that in '86. ... ;-)
You get the point.
-Pauli
Joona I Palaste
on comp.sys.amiga.games:
> In comp.sys.amiga.misc Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote:
>> Amiga was good but <rxk...@mail.com> scribbled the following
>> on comp.sys.amiga.games:
>>> Some of you might be asking, wtf is a X68000? Well as the name implies, it
>>> is a 68000-based machine. 10 Mhz!! the X60000 was a totally awesome
>>> Japanese computer from Sharp. it played games that blew the original Amiga
>>> 500 out of the water. in terms of hardware sprites and scrolling, it KILLED
>>> the original Amiga series. I mean all the Amigas that used the original or
>>> enhanced chipset. basicly any Amiga from the 1980s.
>> (snip needlessly long flamebait)
>> At a cursory glance, your message seems to consist entirely of
>> comparing the 10 MHz X68000 (which pretty much nobody has heard
>> about) to a 7 MHz Amiga 500. You must be one of those who think, or
>> who would like others to think, that the Amiga 500 was the only Amiga
>> ever made, the be-all and end-all of Amiga computers.
>> This is far from the truth. Tell me, how would your 10 MHz X68000
>> compare to my Amiga 4000 with a 50 MHz 68060 with AGA graphics and
>> 50 MB of memory?
> Why didn't you just say that in '86. ... ;-)
> You get the point.
The A4000 hadn't been invented in 1986, but it has now. So where is its
X68000 equivalent? Don't tell me, the development of the X68000 stopped
with the 10 MHz model that the OP is so in love with.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Immanuel Kant but Genghis Khan."
- The Official Graffitist's Handbook
Amiga was good but
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:blj9ib$hti$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Amiga was good but <rxk...@mail.com> scribbled the following
> on comp.sys.amiga.games:
> > Some of you might be asking, wtf is a X68000? Well as the name
implies, it
> > is a 68000-based machine. 10 Mhz!! the X60000 was a totally awesome
> > Japanese computer from Sharp. it played games that blew the original
Amiga
> > 500 out of the water. in terms of hardware sprites and scrolling, it
KILLED
> > the original Amiga series. I mean all the Amigas that used the original
or
> > enhanced chipset. basicly any Amiga from the 1980s.
>
> (snip needlessly long flamebait)
>
> At a cursory glance, your message seems to consist entirely of
> comparing the 10 MHz X68000 (which pretty much nobody has heard
> about) to a 7 MHz Amiga 500. You must be one of those who think, or
> who would like others to think, that the Amiga 500 was the only Amiga
> ever made, the be-all and end-all of Amiga computers.
> This is far from the truth. Tell me, how would your 10 MHz X68000
> compare to my Amiga 4000 with a 50 MHz 68060 with AGA graphics and
> 50 MB of memory?
<smiling>
I was expecting a few replies like this.... Ok no need to get defencive.
We all know there were many Amigas after the '500. We all know that A1200
and all AGA Amigas were more powerful than the X68000. - I was careful to
compare original Amiga with original X68000. There were also newer models
of the X68 with the '020, '030, '040 and even '060 with LOTS more memory and
better graphics.
Just accept the fact that X68000 was better gaming machine than the Amiga
500 just like most people accept the fact that Amiga was better than the ST.
Proof is in the games.
Amiga was good but
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:bljavs$ip6$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
um...Wrong.
Joona I Palaste
on comp.sys.amiga.games:
> "Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:blj9ib$hti$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>> comparing the 10 MHz X68000 (which pretty much nobody has heard
>> about) to a 7 MHz Amiga 500. You must be one of those who think, or
>> who would like others to think, that the Amiga 500 was the only Amiga
>> ever made, the be-all and end-all of Amiga computers.
>> This is far from the truth. Tell me, how would your 10 MHz X68000
>> compare to my Amiga 4000 with a 50 MHz 68060 with AGA graphics and
>> 50 MB of memory?
> <smiling>
> I was expecting a few replies like this.... Ok no need to get defencive.
> We all know there were many Amigas after the '500. We all know that A1200
> and all AGA Amigas were more powerful than the X68000. - I was careful to
> compare original Amiga with original X68000. There were also newer models
> of the X68 with the '020, '030, '040 and even '060 with LOTS more memory and
> better graphics.
> Just accept the fact that X68000 was better gaming machine than the Amiga
> 500 just like most people accept the fact that Amiga was better than the ST.
> Proof is in the games.
Um, that's great and all, but...
Why are you telling us all this? Even if the X68000 was so great, even
if it was better than the Amiga, why do we need to know all that? Just
so you can get the chance to promote your beloved X68000? Just so you
can feel smug?
Why don't you go ahead and tell us that modern PCs have surpassed
*both* the computers mentioned here by a far leap? Like we care.
In case you hadn't noticed, this newsgroup is for *Amiga games*. Not
comparing Amiga to God knows what.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"How can we possibly use sex to get what we want? Sex IS what we want."
- Dr. Frasier Crane
Amiga was good but
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:bljavs$ip6$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
This is just one link with a tiny bit of info. there is quite a bit more on
the net. just not even remotely as much info as there is on the various
Amiga computers, since the X68 series (yes series) wasn't released outside
of Japan and didn't have even 10% of the userbase that Amiga had due to the
obviously limited market.
http://members.tripod.com/~faberp/sharpx68.htm
X-680X0 COMPUTER SYSTEMS
Co-developed by Hudson Soft (the same team that created the famous PCEngine)
and the well-know Japanese electronic giant Sharp, these computers became a
big success in Japan from 1986 to 1997.
Marketed in 1986, the first version of the system called "Sharp X68000" sold
very well and soon became the dream of many Japanese computer users.
Production of the system was stopped in 1997 when the last X68060 was
assembled. The Sharp computer was the only commercial system that used a
Motorola 68060 in huge quantities.
A lot of different models of the system were made during the years. Here is
a list of some: X68000, X68000 ACE, X68000 PRO, X68000 EXPERT, X68000 PROII,
X68000 EXPERTII, X68000 SUPER, X68000 XVI, X68000 COMPACT, X68030, X68030
DASH, X68040 TURBO, X68060 TURBO.
I like this quote: "The Sharp computer was the only commercial system that
used a Motorola 68060 in huge quantities." because it smells like someone
eating crowe :P
Joona I Palaste
> news:bljavs$ip6$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>> X68000 equivalent? Don't tell me, the development of the X68000 stopped
>> with the 10 MHz model that the OP is so in love with.
> This is just one link with a tiny bit of info. there is quite a bit more on
> the net. just not even remotely as much info as there is on the various
> Amiga computers, since the X68 series (yes series) wasn't released outside
> of Japan and didn't have even 10% of the userbase that Amiga had due to the
> obviously limited market.
"Wasn't released outside Japan"... "didn't have even 10% of the
userbase"... So again, why are you telling us all this? God knows,
there might even be some even greater computer, never released outside
someone's basement, which didn't even have 1% of the userbase of the
X68000. So who cares? Not we, and I don't think you do either.
All this seems like you just want to play a troll here.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Bad things only happen to scoundrels."
- Moominmamma
Amiga was good but
I would not dare compare Amiga to modern PCs or their highend graphics
cards. but I WOULD compare Amiga to a very similar (but superior) machine
released in the same time period--a machine that was Japan's -direct-
equivalent to the Amiga--which would have been Amiga's rival, like the Atari
ST, had the X68000 be released in America and Europe.
I think the Amiga line was great. but I recognize something that was
superior at doing things that the Amiga was concidered good at...games.
arcade-quality games, even.
And I didn't make the thread to feel smug. I didn't say "Amiga sucks,
X68000 is God".
I made the thread to see if anyone agreed and had a similar impression about
the software.
Nick Axel
and what if I don't?
Coyote Seven
something I would have totally drooled for back in the day...
Amiga was good but wrote:
> I would not dare compare Amiga to modern PCs or their highend graphics
> cards. but I WOULD compare Amiga to a very similar (but superior) machine
> released in the same time period--a machine that was Japan's -direct-
> equivalent to the Amiga--which would have been Amiga's rival, like the Atari
> ST, had the X68000 be released in America and Europe.
>
> I think the Amiga line was great. but I recognize something that was
> superior at doing things that the Amiga was concidered good at...games.
> arcade-quality games, even.
>
> And I didn't make the thread to feel smug. I didn't say "Amiga sucks,
> X68000 is God".
> I made the thread to see if anyone agreed and had a similar impression about
> the software.
I wonder why it was never distributed outside of Japan though! That
might have forced Commodore to introduce AGA with the A-3000 instead.
I'm also curious how much this thing cost. All that power sounds like
it would have been rather pricey.
Bill Silvey
news:Yd9fb.5563$Hd6.3...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com
> Some of you might be asking, wtf is a X68000? Well as the name
What's the best NLE card for the X68k?
How many X68ks are still used in TV production?
Where can I buy Lightwave or Real3d for the X68k?
Yeah.
That's what I thought.
--
http://www.delversdungeon.dragonsfoot.org
Remove the X's in my email address to respond.
"Damn you Silvey, and your endless fortunes." - Stephen Weir
I hate furries.
Stuart Wilson
Stop bloody well feeding them then >:-|
Stuart Wilson
"Bill Silvey" <bxsxixl...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8sdfb.43718$Of2.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> "Amiga was good but" <rxk...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:Yd9fb.5563$Hd6.3...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com
>
> How many X68ks are still used in TV production?
>
> Where can I buy Lightwave or Real3d for the X68k?
>
> Yeah.
>
> That's what I thought.
Hang on. comp.sys.amiga.GAMES isn't it? Surely?
Bill Silvey
news:bljtkq$dblkg$1...@ID-149741.news.uni-berlin.de
Look at the headers, Einstein. Not just what *you* trimmed it to.
Stuart Wilson
> Look at the headers, Einstein. Not just what *you* trimmed it to.
I... it... oh to hell with it. It'll turn into another handbags at dawn
slanging match.
rick
"tt" <t...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:45nqnvcs079i0hk9k...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:05:15 GMT, Coyote Seven <slu...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Hmm, I never heard of this machine until now. But it looks like
> >something I would have totally drooled for back in the day...
>
>
> I hadn't heard about the machine either before running the emulator a
> couple of years ago, even though I though I knew all the "regional"
> computers of the day very well, like BBC (UK), MicroBee (Australia),
> FM Towns etc.
>
> I was also amazed at the quality of its arcade ports, like Bubble
> Bobble, PacMania etc. They seemed to be very close to the arcade
> versions, even when run on an emulator.
>
> Naturally, nowadays I couldn't care less about the X68000 emulator,
> thanks to MAME.
>
I heard about the X68000 some years ago, but never tried out an emulator
until late year.
I too was shocked at how close some of the arcade ports were. There is no
version of Final Fight closer to the arcade than X68000's FF. Not on SNES,
not on SegaCD. Of course the MAME ver. *is* the arcade ver. so I'm not
counting that.
rick
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 08:14:22 GMT, "Amiga was good but"
> <rxk...@mail.com> wrote:
>
> >I was expecting a few replies like this.... Ok no need to get defencive.
> >We all know there were many Amigas after the '500. We all know that A1200
> >and all AGA Amigas were more powerful than the X68000. - I was careful
to
> >compare original Amiga with original X68000. There were also newer
models
> >of the X68 with the '020, '030, '040 and even '060 with LOTS more memory
and
> >better graphics.
> >
> >Just accept the fact that X68000 was better gaming machine than the Amiga
> >500 just like most people accept the fact that Amiga was better than the
ST.
> >
> >Proof is in the games.
>
> playing a X68000 emulator with some games on my PC already a couple of
> years ago or so, and I was amazed how good arcade conversions the
> X68000 emulator had. I guess the emulator can still be found in
> www.vg-network.com no idea about the availability of its games.
>
> I had just forgotten about that emulator due to MAME, which runs 100%
> versions of arcade games, not 99%... :)
You are both right.
While MAME is emulating the real arcade roms, the X68000 played its own
verions of these games which were ported in the late 80s and early 90s. It
would have been alot more amazing to see X68000 in action against its
western counterparts back then.
X68000 is not the only amazing computer from Japan. the FM-Towns was also.
FM-Towns is also much more well known over here. The first X68000 could
compete with the Amiga OCS/ECS - the FM-Towns from 1989 could complete with
the Amiga 1200/AGA. Both X68000 and FM-Towns played host to some stunning
arcade ports.
Amiga was good but
>
> > This is just one link with a tiny bit of info. there is quite a bit more
on
> > the net. just not even remotely as much info as there is on the various
> > Amiga computers, since the X68 series (yes series) wasn't released
outside
> > of Japan and didn't have even 10% of the userbase that Amiga had due to
the
> > obviously limited market.
>
> "Wasn't released outside Japan"... "didn't have even 10% of the
> userbase"... So again, why are you telling us all this? God knows,
> there might even be some even greater computer, never released outside
> someone's basement, which didn't even have 1% of the userbase of the
> X68000. So who cares? Not we, and I don't think you do either.
> All this seems like you just want to play a troll here.
>
<snip>
First of all, we are talking about a machine that actually did exist
(the X68000 and its sucessors) - I don't even need to prove that because its
obvious. You offered just a fantasy senareo of some even more obscure
machine that is even better than the X68000, but that doesn't exist. the
X68000 did.
Second, you might not care, ok you DON'T care, but then do you speak for
*everyone*?
I didn't think so. I am sure there are people who WILL eventually (or
already have) reply
saying something like " Oh yeah, I remember the X68000, that thing was
awesome, I wanted one cause it had all these great arcade games " or some
such post. because SOME people do care or will care. Is that ok by you, sir
?
I would say my post is relavant to Amiga groups because X68000 was
essentially Japan's
equivalent of the Amiga.
And I would also say that you reacted negatively to my post because X68000
is just some obscure machine you've never heard of, and you have absolutely
NO memory of it whatsoever. the X68000 has no history with you because all
you knew about and used was
the Amiga series and perhaps the Atari ST series. never the X68000. but I
tell you, the X68000 really did kick ass at what it did, like SNK's NEO GEO,
it just didn't reach beyond Japan. (opps, i forgot, you don't care)
I am sure some people in Japan who only used the X68000 and FM-Towns could
care less about the AMIGA. to them, Amiga was probably 'some inferior piece
of trash computer that the Americans and Europeans used'.
now I suppose you're going to tell us how you don't care about the Japanese.
oh brother.
So if you could care less about X68000, then stop replying / posting in this
thread.
or not. either way is fine by me.
*re-gains his composure*
Amiga was good but
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=298
X68000
Here is the first of a great family. It is the successor of the Sharp X1
family, shipped with a unique square screen monitor.
Instead of using the Zilog Z80, it uses a powerful Motorola MC 68000. This
computer (and all its family) has great features (look at the emulator), it
was more powerful than the other 68000 computers at this time (Atari ST or
Amiga 500) : more colors or more hardware sprites, hardware scrolling,
genlocking, perspective or playfields (up to 16) .
Unfortunately, it was never marketed outside Japan where it was and still is
very very popular ! Too bad, I'm sure it would have a great success !! A
very great range of games were developed for the X680x0 serie and the best
arcade conversions were done on this computer.
It runs under Human 68K, an operating system which looks like CP/M 68 or
MSDOS and uses a graphic user interface called VS.
Notice that the development is still active on that computer, several OSes
have been ported on the X68000, the most famous are Minix and Unix NetBSD
and all the GNU tools and there are some projects under development :
XNeptune (a Ethernet card) or Ko-Windows (a 'NextStep-like' graphic
environment).
It was followed by the X68000 Ace and Ace HD.
picture:
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/sharp_x68000_1.jpg
Amiga was good but
TECHNICAL INFORMATIONS *
CPU Motorola MC68000 @ 10 MHz
RAM Standard: 1 or 2 Mb
Max: 12 Mb
COPROCESSORS DMAC 63450, MFP 68901, Oki ADPCM & Yamaha FM sound chip
GRAPHICS MODES - Display mode: 768x512, 512x512, 256x256
31.5KHz/15.98Khz
- Text bitmap vram 4bit/pixel 1024x1024pixel 512KBytes with x,y scroll
- Graph vram 512KBytes, with x,y scroll
pixel 1024x1024pixel 1plane
pixel 512x512pixel 4plane
pixel 512x512pixel 2plane
pixel 512x512pixel 1plane
SPRITES VRAM 32 Kb
Dimension: 16x16 pixel/sprite
Maximum sprites: 128
BACKUP RAM 16 Kb
COLORS More than 65536
FLOPPY DISK 5 Inches 2FDD
HARD DISK SCSI or SASI
I am assuming if X68000 can do 128 16x16 pixel sprites, then maybe it
could do 256 8x8 sprites?
Genesis / Megadrive could only do 80 8x8 sprites.
SNES could do 128 8x8 sprites.
X68000 seems more powerful than both those consoles put together!
(I'll post a better, more complete tech-spec sheet when I find it)
Bill Silvey
news:Typfb.24461$ev2.5...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com
> So if you could care less about X68000, then stop replying / posting
> in this thread.
> or not. either way is fine by me.
>
> *re-gains his composure*
Go and fuck yourself. How dare you post this trash about trash computers
that had 1/100th of the Amiga's userbase and were (obviously, by your
accounts) merely games computers, in Amiga based newsgroups, and then have
the gall to "order" the denizens of the AMIGA newsgroups you crossposted
said trash to to not respond!
Why don't you respond to my post regarding NLE cards for your beloved
X68000? Or the Video Toaster? Or 3d packages? Oooh! Wait, I know! It's
because THEY DON'T EXIST FOR THE FRICKING THING.
Now leave. Just quit posting further messages here and everyone else will
be much happier.
Amiga was good but
"Go and fuck yourself."
<snip>
ouch, I'm offended.
"How dare you post this trash about trash computers
> that had 1/100th of the Amiga's userbase and were (obviously, by your
> accounts) merely games computers, in Amiga based newsgroups, and then have
> the gall to "order" the denizens of the AMIGA newsgroups you crossposted
> said trash to to not respond!"
<snip>
actually, the X68000 was not JUST a games computer. it had several proper
OSs
and other uses besides games. I haven't looked into that much myself, but
do yourself, and me a favor, go check around the net and see that it WAS
used for more than gaming before you post here saying that it wasn't, or
demanding proof.
As for the "how dare you" and "trash" comments, they don't deserve a
response.
"Why don't you respond to my post regarding NLE cards for your beloved
> X68000? Or the Video Toaster? Or 3d packages? Oooh! Wait, I know!
It's
> because THEY DON'T EXIST FOR THE FRICKING THING."
As I said, I don't know much at all about X68000's non-gaming applications.
but they DO exist. maybe not the ones that you speak of, which the Amiga(s)
had. I am not debating that. Oh, and there's no need to shout.
> "Now leave. Just quit posting further messages here and everyone else
will
> be much happier."
Why, just to make you and maybe 1-2 other people happy? yeah, sure, I think
I'll do that.
NOT.
now run along and be sure to killfile me.
Bill Silvey
> now run along and be sure to killfile me.
No. Leave now!
Amiga was good but
> "Amiga was good but" <rxk...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:otqfb.24471$ev2.5...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com
>
> > now run along and be sure to killfile me.
>
> No. Leave now!
>
> --
Why?
Combaticon
> Hmm, I never heard of this machine until now. But it looks like
> something I would have totally drooled for back in the day...
It was, and I would have drooled for it back then too.
>
>
> I wonder why it was never distributed outside of Japan though! That
> might have forced Commodore to introduce AGA with the A-3000 instead.
>
No idea. Maybe Sharp didn't want to compete outside of Japan. Maybe
they didn't have the resources. More likely though, they lacked the
will. Perhaps like Matsushita/Panasonic with the M2 (the 3DO Mark II
3D upgrade or M2 console).
> I'm also curious how much this thing cost. All that power sounds like
> it would have been rather pricey.
Probably $1,000 to $2,000. just a wild guess.
Nick Axel
good joke man.
Amiga was good but wrote:
Amiga was good but
"Nick Axel" <nospamnjax...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:blliu9$dfedb$1...@ID-206009.news.uni-berlin.de...
Nick Axel
my ass... hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
Amiga was good but
SUPERB arcade ports, and even if it did exist, it probably sucked ass next
to the ALMIGHTY and infinitely great AMIGA.
yeahriiight. go ahead and laugh it up.
"Nick Axel" <nospamnjax...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:bllk6d$dln1d$1...@ID-206009.news.uni-berlin.de...
Angus Manwaring
> http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=298
> X68000
>[Attachment: sharp_logo.gif.0]
>[Attachment: vide.gif.0]
Hi, erm.... Amiga was good.... I don't have any problem with what you're
saying about the X68000 but posting binaries (even little ones) on a
discusion group is unwelcome so please could you respect that.
Thanks. :)
All the best,
Angus Manwaring. (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)
I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html
AGA Pow !
[...]
> pixel 1024x1024pixel 1plane
^^^^^^^^^
This one is for text only.
[...]
> COLORS More than 65536
^^^^
???
The X68000 has a 16 bit palette, so it gives a palette of
65536 colors and no more !
> I am assuming if X68000 can do 128 16x16 pixel sprites, then maybe it
> could do 256 8x8 sprites?
Yes, and probably 512 4x4 sprites and well... maybe 1024 2x2 sprites ! ;)
Beware with all the infos you can find on the web, many
are more like fantasy. And particularly when it comes to
subjects like japanese computers. I could read totally
incredible (silly) infos about computers in many computer
museums on internet, even for well known computers like Amiga,
Falcon030 (!) etc. so be careful.
Some time ago, I made some web investigations concerning X68000
because I was curious to know more about another M680x0 platform.
I read so much contradictory informations that I decided to ask
directly to Japanese X68K users (very kind people) and I managed
to gain all informations I wanted to know about this machine by
searching in Google Japan and contacting Japanese users who made
homepage about X68000.
Among the wrong infos we often see around :
- X68000 release date 1986 -> WRONG : it was released in 1987 (the
same year than the Amiga 500).
- Hardware FX like Zoom, Rotation (ala SNES Mode7) -> WRONG : X68K
has no hardware FX support. All effects are made in software.
- 24 bits palette -> WRONG : It had a 16 bits palette (65536 colors)
and "only" 512KB of VRAM. In 512x512 16 bits screenmode, all the VRAM
is used.
etc.
Concerning the Amiga, don't forget that it was released two years
before, in 1985 (Amiga 1000). The prototype was shown in 1984...
As for Amiga 500, it was a low end machine on the contrary of X68K
that was considered as a high end Personnal Workstation in Japan.
And to conclude, it seems that the Amiga had a certain influence
over the X68000 conception, the X68000 engineers gave women name
to the coprocessors : cynthia (sprite controller), Yuki, (memory
controller) Saki etc. according to a Japanese X68000/Amiga owner
I know, the X68000 engineers had the Amiga in mind when they did
this. :)
(I have some Japanese Login magazine scan from 1987 in which there
is a presentation of this computer and the name of Amiga is often
written, but unfortunately I can't read Japanese so I can't say
what is exactly said about Amiga in this X68000 article).
Trivia : The first version of X68000 NetBSD were ported from the
Amiga version. :)
M.C.
kev
this is a very interesting machine, check out the picture of this
beast, what a bizzare looking contraption and it used the 5 1/4"
floppy. It's amazing that a computer was in production at that time
that was so advanced compared to the Amiga, which I thought was
unchallenged in those days.
A couple things I wonder about, what was the OS really like? What did
these things cost? I mean it's compared to the amiga 500 but I get
the feeling it cost as much as the 3000. Also, on the antique
computers site they say this machine is still supported etc... well it
also says that under Amiga and I'm wondering is there still interest
in this x68000 nowawadays? It seems all the 680x0 based platforms
died out along with their cpu. There was never any talk of a next
generation x68000 like the next gen Macintosh (which is the only
machine from this era with motorola cpu that seems to have made the
jump)???
kvn
Nick Axel
fantastic, carry on, tell us more, hahahahahaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha...
:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
Amiga was good but
Hi there. yeah sure, no prob'
While I don't know *everything* that is concidered a binary (i'm sure
someone will tell me) I'll do my best by only posting text... no
charts, no pictures. that way, I'll probably avoid accidentally
posting binaries. how's that? :)
Koft
> that had 1/100th of the Amiga's userbase and were (obviously, by your
> accounts) merely games computers, in Amiga based newsgroups, and then have
> the gall to "order" the denizens of the AMIGA newsgroups you crossposted
> said trash to to not respond!
>
> Why don't you respond to my post regarding NLE cards for your beloved
> X68000? Or the Video Toaster? Or 3d packages? Oooh! Wait, I know! It's
> because THEY DON'T EXIST FOR THE FRICKING THING.
Hey maybe it didnt have all that stuff. But check this out ->
http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/x68k/
A net bsd port, that f'n cool in my book. That means theres a fucking
shit load of *nix software that runs on the damn thing.
Off topic as the parent post may be, i'm still glad he posted it
there. I had never heard of the machine untill i saw that post, and i
use netbsd on several machines. I hope i get my hands on one of thoes
machines some day, looks like a cool toy. Check out the netbsd history
of the port :
The NetBSD/x68k port was started in 1993 by OKI Masaru. At first, it
was ported from NetBSD/amiga, and tracked NetBSD 0.9, NetBSD 1.0, and
NetBSD 1.1. NetBSD/x68k has been included in the official release of
NetBSD from 1.2 onwards.
And other searches on the net indicate that amiga and this machine
shared a good ammount of technology over the years. ( both hardware
and software )
So it's not 100% off topic. :P
Angus Manwaring
>"Angus Manwaring" <angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:<670.407T2808T5566375angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk>...
>> On 04-Oct-03 01:50:27, Amiga was good but said
>> > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=298
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >[Attachment: vide.gif.0]
>>
>>
>> Hi, erm.... Amiga was good.... I don't have any problem with what you're
>> saying about the X68000 but posting binaries (even little ones) on a
>> discusion group is unwelcome so please could you respect that.
>>
>Hi there. yeah sure, no prob'
>While I don't know *everything* that is concidered a binary (i'm sure
>someone will tell me) I'll do my best by only posting text... no
>charts, no pictures. that way, I'll probably avoid accidentally
>posting binaries. how's that? :)
That's great - thanks for you civilised reply. :)
colin
"Koft" wrote in message
I like my A600 ;)
Amiga was good but
Hi Mich,
Thanks for contributing alot of information on X68000. Your's is a
really terrific post.
And thank you also, for clearing up some of the misconceptions about
the machine, as well as pointing point (perhaps inadvertently) a few
errors that I made :)
colors - 65,536 in its pallete. this is the same as the NEO GEO MVS
arcade and home console systems have, which came out in 1990, IIRC. Do
you have any idea as to the true maximum amount of colors the X68000
could *display* on screen?
My guess is 256, 512 or 4096.
NeoGeo colors: 4096 / 65536
SNES colors: 256 / 32768
Genesis colors: 64 / 512 (more with tricks)
A1000/A500 colors: 32~64 / 4096 (more with tricks)
It's neat that X68000 could indeed do 256 sprites of 8x8 size! wow.
Also, I tend to dismiss anything that is overly incredible about any
machine.
I assumed just by playing X68000 games like Space Harrier,
ThunderBlade and AfterBurner II, that the hardware did NOT support
true scaling / zooming or rotation, like the Sega coin-op hardware
does. Scaling & rotation was only avaliable in the most expensive
arcade games in 1985-1987. It seemed be very, very unlikely that even
the impressive X68000 would have such capablities. This is about the
only area where the SuperFamicom/SNES out-does the X68000. but then,
the 16-bit Nintendo is about 3 years newer (1987 ==> 1990). Even so,
many SNES games use add-on DSPs or other special chips (in the carts)
to achieve the smooth scaling & rotation. I'll take the 10 MHz MC68000
in X68000 without hardware S&R over the 3.58 MHz SNES *with* hardware
S&R. The other strengths of the X68000 (speed, colors, sprites,
memory, etc.) make up for the lack of hardware FX the SNES had. IMO :)
In light of the age difference between the original Amiga
(which I incorrectly said was the A500 when it is A1000)
and X68000 being 2 years, not 1 year, as far as being
"on the shelf" (A1000 '85 / X68 '87) ...this makes the large
disparity between the two machines somewhat less. BOTH machines
were VERY impressive given their release dates.
jumping around to different areas, trying to cover everything you
mentioned....
The info about the names of some of the custom chips is very welcome!
I never knew those before your post. It makes the X68000 seem even
*more* like the Japanese equivalent of Amiga.
Thanks once again for the informative post :)
Hidehiko Ogata
some while... so just to clear things up, from a guy who has actually
lived that era firsthand:
First and foremost, the likes of FM-Towns and X68K were exceptions
rather than the norm. The Japanese personal computer market itself was
still a hobbyists' market back then, and even that was pretty much
dominated by NEC PC98's (boring x86 box, essentially your common PC
clone with a proprietary excuse of an OS)... they owned something like
7-80% of the market IIRC.
So other guys had to find some niche. I think Fujitsu's idea was "home
entertainment/multimedia box" (FM-Towns), and Sharp's was "hobbyists'
dream box" (X68K)... it even came with their equivalent of RKM and HRM
out of the box.
Hence they were EXPENSIVE. The X68000 series IIRC cost somewhere
between 300-400K yen (~2500-3500U$D). Again, hobbyists' market. Highly
respected yes, but if you want to play some games, you just bought some
console with just a few percent of money.
From a purely technical POV... yes, X68K rocked. Mhz bragfest aside,
I think its comparison to the Amiga neatly parallels C64 v.s. Atari8;
the former came out later, and generally was more able, especially when
the software suited the graphic paradigm (tiled background with powerful
sprites). Yet the latter was more flexible (Display List/Copper List,
"chip" data can be anywhere in memory etc.), and if I may say so, more
elegant... there was something fundamentally satisfying to pull off an
effect that was supposed to be impossible (just watch Fire&Ice and try
to say Ami has poor sprites, for example).
I don't see the point in trying to decide what was better; I just miss
the time when the market had several evolutional branch that led to the
fruition of funky and DIFFERENT sandboxes such as X68K. (They pretty
much threw away existing user base and started to produce just another
PeeClones when the market finally reached the critical mass with W95/
iMac... the bitterness somewhat parallels that of the Apple][ commutity
toward Mac. I call it "The W95 Massacre".)
--
// }{idehiko ()gata "I'm not like other people.
\X/ Amiga since '86 I can't stand pain.
It hurts me." - Daffy Duck
Bart Mathias
> ...
> Just accept the fact that X68000 was better gaming machine than the
> Amiga 500 just like most people accept the fact that Amiga was
> better than the ST.
> Proof is in the games.
Not persuaded. I've been using computers for 34 years, Amigas for
18, and have little urge to play games with them.
I think if I did want to play games, I'd probably buy a PC.
Amiga was fairly popular in Japan. A Japanese version of the
operating system was written for it, and I have a number of Japanese
programs written by Japanese programmers. But maybe they didn't know
about the X68000.
Bart Mathias
Timothy Rue
>Some of you might be asking, wtf is a X68000? Well as the name implies, it
>is a 68000-based machine. 10 Mhz!! the X60000 was a totally awesome
>Japanese computer from Sharp. it played games that blew the original Amiga
[SNIP]
I've skimmed over the thread and I do find this system interesting, but
perhaps not the way you would think. Its in the questions it raises.
I recall an OS called TRON that was suppressed in use thru politics and
government and now I hear about this X68000 system.. What else have those
in positions of power and control kept from us consumers?
Microsoft certainly profited from it all, and the behind the scenes on the
above and what more probably does contribute to MS not being punished from
being found guilty of federal antitrust violations... SEEMS alot more have
been involved in anti-trust acts.
I recall going thru alot of crap just to get an A4000, something about
importing problems...
Now many have followed this claim by another that I'm filled with
conspiracy theories. I'm not, I can tell the difference between common
greed, its manifestation and conspiracy, for even conspiracy leave a
trail of sorts, but common greed doesn't need conspiracy but is rather
the required element of any conspiracy.
So, from a technological POV, who all has been manipulating the markets?
Don't say nobody, cause its obvious the X6800 wasn't for sale in teh US.
---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://threeseas.net ^<--------<----9----<--------<
Mike Kohary
news:1838.408T2594T6...@earthlink.net...
>
> So, from a technological POV, who all has been manipulating the markets?
>
> Don't say nobody, cause its obvious the X6800 wasn't for sale in teh US.
Nobody. Not everything for sale in other countries is for sale in the US,
and not everything for sale in the US is available in other countries.
The X68000 was produced by a Japanese country who apparently didn't want to
market their machine here. Happens all the time - lots of Japanese products
aren't available here, simply because the company doesn't attempt to sell
the product here.
Mike
Hidehiko Ogata
> Amiga was fairly popular in Japan. A Japanese version of the
> operating system was written for it, and I have a number of Japanese
> programs written by Japanese programmers. But maybe they didn't know
> about the X68000.
Erm, what?
I love my Amiga, but let's not be carried away:
1. Ami received decent magazine coverage, and was highly respected, yet
it remained a "cult" machine in Japan i.e. *very* tiny user base.
Nowhere near that of X68K, which in turn was just a tiny speck
compared to the massively dominant NEC PC98's.
2. All "Japanization" program I've seen are variations of Intuition
Text() patch - a far cry from a localized OS.
3. The chance that a Japanese hobbyist aware of the Amiga yet not of
X68K was virtually nil (*very* close target audience).
AGA Pow !
"Hidehiko Ogata" <h...@aqu.bekkoame.ne.jp> wrote in message news:<Z2.i3.jR218s...@aqu.bekkoame.ne.jp>...
[...]
> From a purely technical POV... yes, X68K rocked. Mhz bragfest aside,
>I think its comparison to the Amiga neatly parallels C64 v.s. Atari8;
Atari 800/800XL were amazing with their "multi-palette" possibilities,
they seemed to be very cool computers. I could only see one back then,
because everyone had C64s around (including myself), I was quite
impressed when I saw some 800XL stuff running !
> the former came out later, and generally was more able, especially when
> the software suited the graphic paradigm (tiled background with powerful
> sprites). Yet the latter was more flexible (Display List/Copper List,
> "chip" data can be anywhere in memory etc.), and if I may say so, more
> elegant... there was something fundamentally satisfying to pull off an
> effect that was supposed to be impossible (just watch Fire&Ice and try
> to say Ami has poor sprites, for example).
Concerning Ami sprites, for those who think the Amiga has poor sprites,
I think you can add "Megatyphoon" (Aminet/game/demo/Megatyphoon) as an
another eloquent example of the Amiga ability to surprise us by going
beyond one could expect !
This A500 demo game displays a huge amount of sprites and delivers fast
action, I never thought it was possible on an A500 before I could see
it ! (well, graphically it is less impressing than "Fire And Ice", but
it is worth to see anyway).
In the same kind of idea, it is a bit similar with 3D shooters, and
although I don't like this type of game, I remember the words of DOOM's
creators arguing that this kind of game wasn't technically feasible on
Ami, the time proved they were wrong. :)
I like very much this aspect of the Amiga.
> I don't see the point in trying to decide what was better; I just miss
> the time when the market had several evolutional branch that led to the
> fruition of funky and DIFFERENT sandboxes such as X68K. (They pretty
> much threw away existing user base and started to produce just another
> PeeClones when the market finally reached the critical mass with W95/
> iMac... the bitterness somewhat parallels that of the Apple][ commutity
> toward Mac. I call it "The W95 Massacre".)
I don't want to try to decide what was the better neither, in any event
they represent 2 different philosophies.
As for the game side, I think Ami offers a large variety of games and
many are amazing although they are not arcade games (it is regrettable
to see that people always take arcade games as a reference, it is maybe
because arcade games have a more demonstrative sense, but, is it the
essential ?), look to "Frontier", "Civilization", "Populous", "Deuteros"
etc. they gave me (and still give me) hundred hours of fun !
M.C.
AGA Pow !
[...]
>> Yes, and probably 512 4x4 sprites and well... maybe 1024 2x2 sprites ! ;)
Hey, this one was a joke (look at the smiley at the end
of the sentence)!
All the infos I got state that this computer can display
128 "HARDWARE" sprites only !
But perhaps some tricks or techniques make it possible to
display more sprites, I don't know...
M.C.
Mike Kohary
news:6_qfb.51076$Of2.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> news:otqfb.24471$ev2.5...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com
>
> > now run along and be sure to killfile me.
>
> No. Leave now!
Feeling threatened? :)
Mike
Mike Kohary
>
> > So if you could care less about X68000, then stop replying / posting
> > in this thread.
> > or not. either way is fine by me.
> >
> > *re-gains his composure*
>
> Go and fuck yourself. How dare you post this trash about trash computers
> that had 1/100th of the Amiga's userbase and were (obviously, by your
> accounts) merely games computers, in Amiga based newsgroups, and then have
> the gall to "order" the denizens of the AMIGA newsgroups you crossposted
> said trash to to not respond!
>
> Why don't you respond to my post regarding NLE cards for your beloved
> X68000? Or the Video Toaster? Or 3d packages? Oooh! Wait, I know!
It's
> because THEY DON'T EXIST FOR THE FRICKING THING.
>
> be much happier.
What a childish post. The X68000 was a terrific machine that most of us in
the States and Europe never heard about until recently, as emulation brought
a lot of obscure/foreign machines to light. Playing with the emulator a
couple of years ago, I was shocked at the quality of the arcade converts,
and to learn that this machine existed at the same time the Amiga debuted.
Had the machine been marketed in the States, I'm certain us Amigans wouldn't
have been Amigans. :)
So, lighten up and enjoy the post for what it was - just some informational
fodder to store away in our already cluttered minds, for kicks if for
nothing else. There's certainly no call for telling the guy to FO and go
away. These are *discussion* groups, after all.
Regards,
Mike
Joona I Palaste
on comp.sys.amiga.misc:
> "Bill Silvey" <bxsxixl...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KXpfb.50741$Of2.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>> that had 1/100th of the Amiga's userbase and were (obviously, by your
>> accounts) merely games computers, in Amiga based newsgroups, and then have
>> the gall to "order" the denizens of the AMIGA newsgroups you crossposted
>> said trash to to not respond!
>>
>> Why don't you respond to my post regarding NLE cards for your beloved
>> X68000? Or the Video Toaster? Or 3d packages? Oooh! Wait, I know!
> It's
>> because THEY DON'T EXIST FOR THE FRICKING THING.
>>
>> Now leave. Just quit posting further messages here and everyone else will
>> be much happier.
> What a childish post. The X68000 was a terrific machine that most of us in
> the States and Europe never heard about until recently, as emulation brought
> a lot of obscure/foreign machines to light. Playing with the emulator a
> couple of years ago, I was shocked at the quality of the arcade converts,
> and to learn that this machine existed at the same time the Amiga debuted.
> Had the machine been marketed in the States, I'm certain us Amigans wouldn't
> have been Amigans. :)
> So, lighten up and enjoy the post for what it was - just some informational
> fodder to store away in our already cluttered minds, for kicks if for
> nothing else. There's certainly no call for telling the guy to FO and go
> away. These are *discussion* groups, after all.
These are *AMIGA* discussion groups. Discussion groups about *Amigas*.
Not X68000s, however great they might be. I really can't care less any
more about which computer is better. Amiga is on-topic here and X68000
is off-topic. So the OP is really in no position whatsoever to tell *US*
what we can say and what we can't.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"The trouble with the French is they don't have a word for entrepreneur."
- George Bush
Eric Haines
> Playing with the emulator a
> couple of years ago, I was shocked at the quality of the arcade converts,
> and to learn that this machine existed at the same time the Amiga debuted.
> Had the machine been marketed in the States, I'm certain us Amigans wouldn't
> have been Amigans. :)
OK, it had good arcade ports, but did it have any other games? If not,
then Amigans would still be Amigans. People only interested in arcade
ports would have bought consoles. :)
--Eric
mattabat
> > Go and fuck yourself. How dare you post this trash about trash computers
> > that had 1/100th of the Amiga's userbase and were (obviously, by your
> > accounts) merely games computers, in Amiga based newsgroups, and then have
> > the gall to "order" the denizens of the AMIGA newsgroups you crossposted
> > said trash to to not respond!
Blaise moi! Oops, forgive my french ;)
> >
> > Why don't you respond to my post regarding NLE cards for your beloved
> > X68000? Or the Video Toaster? Or 3d packages? Oooh! Wait, I know! It's
> > because THEY DON'T EXIST FOR THE FRICKING THING.
>
> Hey maybe it didnt have all that stuff. But check this out ->
> http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/x68k/
That does sound cool, but what would be cooler would be a Linux port
(under the Debian banner would seem appropiate, especially for any
Japanese readers out there).
Is there enough information out there to make a Linux kernel for the
X680x0?
Does it already exist? :)
>
> A net bsd port, that f'n cool in my book. That means theres a fucking
> shit load of *nix software that runs on the damn thing.
>
> Off topic as the parent post may be, i'm still glad he posted it
> there. I had never heard of the machine untill i saw that post, and i
> use netbsd on several machines. I hope i get my hands on one of thoes
> machines some day, looks like a cool toy. Check out the netbsd history
> of the port :
Did anyone export their own X680x0's?
Did their BIOS express itself only in Japanese?
Where can I get an emulator? :)
>
> The NetBSD/x68k port was started in 1993 by OKI Masaru. At first, it
> was ported from NetBSD/amiga, and tracked NetBSD 0.9, NetBSD 1.0, and
> NetBSD 1.1. NetBSD/x68k has been included in the official release of
> NetBSD from 1.2 onwards.
>
> And other searches on the net indicate that amiga and this machine
> shared a good ammount of technology over the years. ( both hardware
> and software )
>
>
> So it's not 100% off topic. :P
Topics are there to be broken ;)
--
mattabat <spam...@hell.org>
Amiga was good but
Hello Mike,
Thanks for the positive post. I've been playing with the X68000
emulators for over a year. And although I wish I could have a real
X68000 machine, for now, emulation provides an exellent way to
experience some of the software. Even though much of the X68k OS and
the emulators are in Japanese, the key functions are in English which
is a huge help. The quality of the games is just stunning to say the
least. Arcade convertions as well as many original X68k games, or
games from other machines. X68k is good for more than just a few
arcade games :)
For arcade ports (yes I must say more on the subject) the X68k makes
the original Amiga machines and its games from the first few years
look like C64 stuff! Although later on, starting around 1989, Amiga
games got much better. Shadow of the Beast is easily comparable to
alot of X68k games, at least in graphics. Rhe most important thing
though, is X68k games played very, very smoothly. better than
Genesis/MD even.
Compare R-Type I on Amiga to R-Type I on X68k. The difference is
staggering!
Amiga version is 3 big drops below the arcade. It's comparable to the
Sega Master System (8-Bit) version, while X68k R-Type is only like 1/2
a drop below the arcade. (I say its 90%). X68k R-Type is nearly
identical to the arcade and closer than even the outstanding
PC-Engine/TG16 version (about 80%). R-Type II on the Amiga was a major
improvement over the first effort but still way below X68K R-Type I.
Alien Syndrome is another example. While the Amiga version is only
slightly better than the NES or SMS 8-Bit versions, the X68k A.S. is
basicly a CLONE of the arcade. While the boss fights are swtiched
around in the X68k A.S., the graphics and quality are 1:1. There is NO
other home version of A.S. that is really much like the coin-op. Not
counting MAME since that *is* the arcade anyway. I had the two (MAME
and X68k) versions of A.S. running side-by-side.
I couldn't tell the difference other than levels of brightness set in
MAME, which has nothing to do with the game itself.
Ahem, anyway Mike, glad you enjoyed this thread. It's nice to hear
from yet another person who sees X68000 for what it is :)
Amiga was good but
While you are correct in asserting these are Amiga discussion groups,
not X68000 groups, how often do Sega machines get discussed in the
Nintendo groups?
or XBox in the Sony Playstation groups. Or Colecovision in the Atari
groups. Or 3DO in the CD32 group. etc. The X68000 is an Amiga-like
machine so it *is* at least semi on-topic. If you notice in any given
newsgroup, there are TONS of posts that are not strictly about the
main topic. It's not like I am discussing politics or AIDS, or
something WILDLY off-topic. And if you noticed my very first post, I
talked about the Amiga quite a bit. And besides, who CARES right?
It's not like I need to explain myself to you anyway.
Oh btw, glad you are admitting the X68000 was great. it was :)
colin
"mattabat" <matt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36b480ff.03100...@posting.google.com...
http://www.google.com <..... `X68000 emulator` and add any relevant search
details.
http://www.zophar.net/unix/x68000.html
http://www.zophar.net/unix/Files/vx68k-1.1.8.tar.gz
Amiga was good but
Ack, I didn't catch that :) Ok, so the hardware was limited to 128
sprites.
Although programming tricks were no doubt used, especially with such a
fast CPU (faster than the one in the Megadrive/Genesis). I'm sure all
sorts of clever techniques were implimented in sofware.
Bjørnar
Don't worry, it was a good and informative post and just as relevant
as many, many things normally posted around these forums.
If the intention was to set off a debate about "X was cooler than Y"
I would probably target the .advocacy audience however. :)
Regards...
Mike Kohary
Sure. And the guy was talking about Amigas, in comparison to another
platform. Especially considering that the advocacy group is included in
this thread, it's completely relevant.
> > Not X68000s, however great they might be. I really can't care less any
> > more about which computer is better. Amiga is on-topic here and X68000
> > is off-topic. So the OP is really in no position whatsoever to tell *US*
> > what we can say and what we can't.
He wasn't telling anyone what they can and can't say. That was Bill telling
someone what they can and can't say, and now you telling us what we can and
can't say.
You know what? It's the "Amiga isolationist" attitude so prevalent among
the Amiga community that helped kill the Amiga in the first place, and it's
a *damn shame* that it's still a prevalent attitude today. The Amiga
community can no longer afford this kind of attitude, so I'd suggest you
open your mind a little.
At least this thread has provided a bit of action in some newsgroups that
were otherwise pretty much sucking wind.
Mike
Hidehiko Ogata
> Concerning Ami sprites, for those who think the Amiga has poor sprites,
> I think you can add "Megatyphoon" (Aminet/game/demo/Megatyphoon) as an
> another eloquent example of the Amiga ability to surprise us by going
> beyond one could expect !
Thanks, I didn't know of that one... Mega Typhoon indeed! (if a little
insanely tough 8)
Did anyone buy the full game? How was it like?
> In the same kind of idea, it is a bit similar with 3D shooters, and
> although I don't like this type of game, I remember the words of DOOM's
> creators arguing that this kind of game wasn't technically feasible on
> Ami, the time proved they were wrong. :)
>
> I like very much this aspect of the Amiga.
Yup, exactly. Copper-chunky, blitter abuse... wild stuff! Jay Miner
would be proud :).
> I don't want to try to decide what was the better neither, in any event
> they represent 2 different philosophies.
If anything, I think X68K was a bit too specialized for the arcade fad
of the era ("shoving-around-lots-of-sprites-is-cool!")... IIRC it even
came bundled with a "100% port" of Gradius/Nemesis out of the box.
It seems to have adapted well (by software) to the following "shoving-
around-lots-of-*scaled*-sprites-is-cool!" period (e.g. OutRun, Space
Harrier etc.), yet not as well to the upcoming "SNES-mode-somethingth-
is-cool!" era, or of course, "texture-is-the-coolest-thing-on-earth!"
era.
OTOH, stuff like Xtreme Racing or Quake is a testament to the flexi-
bility of the Amiga... then again, I'm awfully biased ;).
> As for the game side, I think Ami offers a large variety of games and
> many are amazing although they are not arcade games (it is regrettable
> to see that people always take arcade games as a reference, it is maybe
> because arcade games have a more demonstrative sense, but, is it the
> essential ?), look to "Frontier", "Civilization", "Populous", "Deuteros"
> etc. they gave me (and still give me) hundred hours of fun !
You'd be surprised to see how many "Amiga ports" there are for these
boxes (again, close target audience).
Trepain
<SNIP>
> And I didn't make the thread to feel smug. I didn't say "Amiga
sucks,
> X68000 is God".
> I made the thread to see if anyone agreed and had a similar
impression about
> the software.
Your post made it clear you were cheerleading for the X68000 and I
don't recall you asking what everyone thought. This would have been
fun to debate more than 10 years ago, but I have a feeling nobody
cares about the X68000 or your opinion.
My $.02
--
Trepain
http://www.trepain.com
!Remove "NOSPAM" from email address to reply!
Trepain
news:bljdli$d12oh$1...@ID-206009.news.uni-berlin.de...
<SNIP>
> > Just accept the fact that X68000 was better gaming machine than
the Amiga
> > 500 just like most people accept the fact that Amiga was better
than the ST.
> >
> > Proof is in the games.
>
> and what if I don't?
Then it's evident you are in denial.
Trepain
<snip>
>
> First of all, we are talking about a machine that actually did exist
> (the X68000 and its sucessors) - I don't even need to prove that
because its
> obvious. You offered just a fantasy senareo of some even more
obscure
> machine that is even better than the X68000, but that doesn't exist.
the
> X68000 did.
Who cares?
> Second, you might not care, ok you DON'T care, but then do you speak
for
> *everyone*?
" "
> I didn't think so. I am sure there are people who WILL eventually
(or
> already have) reply
> saying something like " Oh yeah, I remember the X68000, that thing
was
> awesome, I wanted one cause it had all these great arcade games "
or some
> such post. because SOME people do care or will care. Is that ok by
you, sir
> ?
I don't "care" about your beloved X68000. I care about my family,
friends, job, etc. You will not see any of us with our Amigas tucked
safely under our pillows at night. It's really not that special. I
am going to speak for the majority here.
YOU ARE A TROLL. GET LOST!!! I took a poll and 9 out of 10 usenet
lurkers felt that you should move your troll fest elsewhere...
Honest! (g)
> I would say my post is relavant to Amiga groups because X68000 was
> essentially Japan's
> equivalent of the Amiga.
WTF does that have to do with anything? You are really stretching
now. Cars are similar, but you don't see someone posting information
on the ford mustang in a Nissan newsgroups solely based on their
general similarity. There are 20,000+ newsgroups. They have a title
for a reason. They allow people to discuss certain topics that many
times are easy to comprehend in terms of the intended focus. The
cross posting you performed does not include misc.computers,
misc.console.games, or any other such RELEVANT newsgroup.
> And I would also say that you reacted negatively to my post because
X68000
> is just some obscure machine you've never heard of, and you have
absolutely
> NO memory of it whatsoever. the X68000 has no history with you
because all
> you knew about and used was
> the Amiga series and perhaps the Atari ST series. never the X68000.
but I
> tell you, the X68000 really did kick ass at what it did, like SNK's
NEO GEO,
> it just didn't reach beyond Japan. (opps, i forgot, you don't care)
I think everyone read that the first time around. Again, it has
nothing to do with the Amiga. It is an unsolicited advertisement for
a machine nobody has either heard of or cares to discuss. It's moot
now. I cannot run out to the store and purchase it. IT'S GONE!
Hopefully you will follow in it's path.
I am just as bad because I am feeding you. And you keep mentioning an
emphasis on games. The Amiga was MUCH more than a gaming platform so
lets stop comparing the two. Some of us used and or currently use our
Amigas to play more than games.
> I am sure some people in Japan who only used the X68000 and FM-Towns
could
> care less about the AMIGA. to them, Amiga was probably 'some
inferior piece
> of trash computer that the Americans and Europeans used'.
You god damned MORON. That might be the case, but you don't see Amiga
fans posting messages how the Amiga was better in newsgroup that
pertain to mostly Japanese individuals. If you did you better believe
you would have read the same reaction. This is an Amiga group. We
don't care. What is so difficult to understand? You are posting
totally unrelated information in the Amiga based groups. You have no
argument. Nothing you say will give your sophomoric argument any more
relevance.
> now I suppose you're going to tell us how you don't care about the
Japanese.
> oh brother.
No. We care about the Amiga. Do you know why? Probably because the
cross posted newsgroups are Amiga newsgroups which at the most basic
level is to discuss. Hold on. Brace yourself. Are you ready? THE
AMIGA.
> So if you could care less about X68000, then stop replying / posting
in this
> thread.
> or not. either way is fine by me.
>
> *re-gains his composure*
You are an idiot. Thank you for the confirmation.
Trepain
<SNIP>
> As I said, I don't know much at all about X68000's non-gaming
applications.
> but they DO exist. maybe not the ones that you speak of, which the
Amiga(s)
> had. I am not debating that. Oh, and there's no need to shout.
<SNIP>
Wait a second. You are the supposed X68000 expert right? Did you
even own one yourself? Did you just notice it on a web site one day
and felt this burning desire to cut and past information here? How
about you research that. I know what the Amiga is capable of. The
specs you wrote were interesting, but without software to really take
advantage of its power its just a gaming machine.
You are so versed on its capabilities, yet you know NOTHING about the
software? Are you surprised several others have referred to you as a
troll? You come in your with your nonsense and you cannot even answer
a few simply questions...
Trepain
> yeah, pardon me, the X68000 does not exist, did not have dozens of
> SUPERB arcade ports, and even if it did exist, it probably sucked
ass next
> to the ALMIGHTY and infinitely great AMIGA.
>
> yeahriiight. go ahead and laugh it up.
The Amiga was used in conjunction with dozens of movies generating
special effects, platform/software used for 3D rendering, hundreds if
not thousands of newstations for various video related tasks. This is
a small segment. All of us Amiga users could add quite a bit to what
I started. The Amiga made a mark. The X68000 did not and you are
just pissed that only a handful of people outside of Japan even knows
what the X68000 was. I am afraid you have a lot of catching up to do,
but do yourself a favor and share it elsewhere.
Trepain
news:1fe70445.03100...@posting.google.com...
> Compare R-Type I on Amiga to R-Type I on X68k. The difference is
> staggering!
That is a very poor comparison. How are you going to compare the two
machines based on the above? Did the same person program both games
and have the same knowledge in terms of programming?
Do I need to continue? I ignored the rest of your post because it was
filled with aweful examples.
AGA Pow !
"Hidehiko Ogata" <h...@aqu.bekkoame.ne.jp> wrote in message news:<I2.83.mR2VFd...@aqu.bekkoame.ne.jp>...
> AGA Pow ! wrote:
>
> > Concerning Ami sprites, for those who think the Amiga has poor sprites,
> > I think you can add "Megatyphoon" (Aminet/game/demo/Megatyphoon) as an
> > another eloquent example of the Amiga ability to surprise us by going
> > beyond one could expect !
>
> Thanks, I didn't know of that one... Mega Typhoon indeed! (if a little
> insanely tough 8)
Yes. :)
> Did anyone buy the full game? How was it like?
Good news, Mega Typhoon is available for free on Back 2 the Roots ! :)
It seems that the authors gave it as a gift to the Amiga community !!
http://www.back2roots.org/Games/HD-Games/ (look for Mega Typhoon)
Does anyone know an internet site where I could find PD games
reviews(with screenshots if possible), especially concerning Aminet PD
games ?
Despite all I could ear around me about low quality of Aminet PD
games,
I could find games I consider as real masterpieces. Unfortunately I
can't
devote as time as I would like to test many of them..
M.C.
Bart Mathias
> Bart Mathias wrote:
> > Amiga was fairly popular in Japan. A Japanese version of the
> > operating system was written for it, and I have a number of
> > Japanese programs written by Japanese programmers. But maybe
> > they didn't know about the X68000.
> Erm, what?
> I love my Amiga, but let's not be carried away:
Well, I guess it depends on what "fairly popular" means. (^_^)
> 1. Ami received decent magazine coverage, and was highly respected,
> yet
> it remained a "cult" machine in Japan i.e. *very* tiny user
> base. Nowhere near that of X68K, which in turn was just a tiny
> speck compared to the massively dominant NEC PC98's.
> 2. All "Japanization" program I've seen are variations of Intuition
> Text() patch - a far cry from a localized OS.
I got some hard copy documentation sent to me, and it looked
Japanese. But I'm not smart enough to know what would be needed
besides what would be essentially text patches to make it Japanese.
I don't remember what the product was called--it was a *long* time
ago, and they wouldn't sell it outside of Japan.
> 3. The chance that a Japanese hobbyist aware of the Amiga yet not
> of
> X68K was virtually nil (*very* close target audience).
As you probably suspected, my last sentence was intended as irony, to
suggest that there were people who consciously chose to use the Amiga
for some reason in spite of the availability of X68000s.
But thanks for setting me straight on my overestimation of Amiga's
Japanese popularity. Come to think of it, I spent an afternoon in
Akihabara in 1991, and don't remember seeing a single Amiga. (I
wonder if I saw any X68Ks?) But you didn't much see Amiga in
computer stores in the US, either, but I'd say it was fairly popular
here in those days, among those who noticed we didn't have anything
better.
Bart Mathias
Bjørnar Bolsøy
<snip>
> Ahem, anyway Mike, glad you enjoyed this thread. It's nice to
> hear from yet another person who sees X68000 for what it is :)
An arcade gaming PC? :)
I remember when I got the Amiga the really revolutionising
stuff was the flight simulators, the masterpieces from
Microprose (like Civilization), Empire, Populous, RPGs like
Dungeons and Dragons, Defenders Of the Crown, the infamous
range of sportsgames, scifi jewels like Starglider, Millennium
and Elite. You had cinematic games with awesome animated gfx
like Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Dragons Lair, adventures
like Lessuire Suit Larry, Kings Quest, Indiana Jones..
And who can forget Hollywood Strip Poker... :)
There were houndreds of developers making thousends of titles
for the Amiga and maybe a couple of houndreds on the X68000?
I'm sure it had a lot of potential, but wouldn't you say it
was a bit expensive if all it really had going for itself
was arcade ports, albeit good ones?
Regards...
Hidehiko Ogata
> > I love my Amiga, but let's not be carried away:
>
> Well, I guess it depends on what "fairly popular" means. (^_^)
Okay ;).
> > 2. All "Japanization" program I've seen are variations of Intuition
> > Text() patch - a far cry from a localized OS.
>
> I got some hard copy documentation sent to me, and it looked
> Japanese. But I'm not smart enough to know what would be needed
> besides what would be essentially text patches to make it Japanese.
O'Reilly has, as always, a thorough book on the subject... suffice it
to say that displaying Kanji is just a small facet of dealing with this
messy language ;).
> I don't remember what the product was called--it was a *long* time
> ago, and they wouldn't sell it outside of Japan.
ISTR there were Amiga Nihongo System (ANS) and Daigokai... were there
others?
Anyways, those two were serviceable, yet far from enough. I think one
or the other came with specialized "Japanization" patches for popular
apps like Workbench and DPaint, but that was about it. Not a patch on
the official and thorough job Apple Japan had done with Mac from early
on (gotta give credit where it's due ;).
> > 3. The chance that a Japanese hobbyist aware of the Amiga yet not
> > of X68K was virtually nil (*very* close target audience).
>
> As you probably suspected, my last sentence was intended as irony, to
> suggest that there were people who consciously chose to use the Amiga
> for some reason in spite of the availability of X68000s.
OIC *^_^*.
> But thanks for setting me straight on my overestimation of Amiga's
> Japanese popularity. Come to think of it, I spent an afternoon in
> Akihabara in 1991, and don't remember seeing a single Amiga. (I
> wonder if I saw any X68Ks?)
Shame we didn't meet then! There were fairly good diversity before the
W95 Massacre; I can think of handful of Amigan places back then. All
well-hidden though... YKWIM ;). All gone now *sob*
Bart Mathias
> Bart Mathias wrote:
> ...
> > I got some hard copy documentation sent to me, and it looked
> > Japanese. But I'm not smart enough to know what would be needed
> > besides what would be essentially text patches to make it
> > Japanese.
> O'Reilly has, as always, a thorough book on the subject... suffice
> it to say that displaying Kanji is just a small facet of dealing
> with this messy language ;).
> > I don't remember what the product was called--it was a *long*
> > time ago, and they wouldn't sell it outside of Japan.
> ISTR there were Amiga Nihongo System (ANS) and Daigokai... were
> there others?
ANS is the one I was thinking of. They weren't prepared to sell
overseas, for some reason. What I meant by "looked Japanese" was
that it made me think that one would not need to bother with English
(except maybe the "English" alphabet for typing romaji) to run
programs on it.
I have both of Ken Lunde's books from O'Reilly, by the way.
> Anyways, those two were serviceable, yet far from enough. I think
> one or the other came with specialized "Japanization" patches for
> popular apps like Workbench and DPaint, but that was about it. Not
> a patch on the official and thorough job Apple Japan had done with
> Mac from early on (gotta give credit where it's due ;).
I've got Daigokai on a floppy someplace, I think. Either I wasn't
able to get it to work, or it turned out not to be useful to me. I
also have a Japanese terminal program that I *almost* got to work.
I notice that JIStoJi, which I wrote in 1993 because I wanted to be
able to both read and print Japanese (but it isn't a very good
program--it prints only on dot matrix printers) keeps showing up on
Aminet from time to time. More sad testimony to the sorry state of
Japanese on the Amiga!
But hey! We can hope for better things under OS4. (I :-), but did
buy an Amiga One, just in case.)
Bart Mathias
Hidehiko Ogata
> What I meant by "looked Japanese" was
> that it made me think that one would not need to bother with English
> (except maybe the "English" alphabet for typing romaji) to run
> programs on it.
That certainly was the impression they wanted to make ;). But really,
it would call for whole overhaul of the entire system (scalable fonts,
printer support (2 weak points of Ami), some standard for "in-line"
conversion, don't strip esc chars etc.)... then of course, every manual
would have to be translated.
The hardest would be, I guess, to brainwash programmers that
1 char != 1 byte anymore ;).
> I have both of Ken Lunde's books from O'Reilly, by the way.
Excellent! :)
> I notice that JIStoJi, which I wrote in 1993 because I wanted to be
> able to both read and print Japanese (but it isn't a very good
> program--it prints only on dot matrix printers) keeps showing up on
> Aminet from time to time. More sad testimony to the sorry state of
> Japanese on the Amiga!
Or testimony to the good utility of your program, rather ;).
(I *knew* your name ringed a distant bell. I still use it sometimes...
thanks again. ;)
Did you know of this one BTW?
http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~olfa/jkff/index.html
The author seems to be in the process of separating Text() patch part
from the input part (FEP). I haven't tried the latter yet, but the
former is not so bad... still suffers from occasional text corruption,
but at least it's crash-free (so far).
> But hey! We can hope for better things under OS4. (I :-), but did
> buy an Amiga One, just in case.)
There seem to be an anime-otaku among Hyperion guys, so there might be
a good chance actually ;).
Bart Mathias
> ...
> Did you know of this one BTW?
> http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/~olfa/jkff/index.html
> The author seems to be in the process of separating Text() patch
> part from the input part (FEP). I haven't tried the latter yet,
> but the former is not so bad... still suffers from occasional text
> corruption, but at least it's crash-free (so far).
I have JKFF096, and in fact I have a script so that I can run it just
by typing JKFF in a shell. I haven't used it for a long time; not
sure why. I'm going to refresh my memory after I finish the news.
I use something called "Japanese," version 2.0, by one Marcus
Lundblad when I am reading sci.lang.japan or Japanese web sites. But
something goes wrong for any new JIS that comes after a KO sequence
in the same line; the character bit-map pointer gets misdirected, or
something. I end up saving to RAM: and using JIStoJi.
I've got Kezako (Kanji Editor by Z-chan for Amigas Only), that once
seemed useful, but since 3.9--or was it the CyberGraphX?--the menu
items are the same color as the background, invisible, and I've never
been able to fix that.
> > But hey! We can hope for better things under OS4. (I :-), but
> > did buy an Amiga One, just in case.)
> There seem to be an anime-otaku among Hyperion guys, so there might
> be a good chance actually ;).
And if it doesn't happen, I'll just fall back on the Linux materials.
(Which I will do in the meantime, anyway, as soon as I get the A1
configured right.)
Bart Mathias