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The origin of 'foo' and 'bar'?

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P. Hoyer

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 08:57:0314.06.94
an
Hi,

It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.

P.S. "Did I miss something?"

-P. Hoyer <ho...@cc.helsinki.fi>

E. Owen Mathews

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 09:53:5814.06.94
an
P. Hoyer (ho...@cc.Helsinki.FI) wrote:
: Hi,

: It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
: integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.

: P.S. "Did I miss something?"

Thank goodness there's somebody else out there like me! I thought I was
going crazy... :-O

... And while we're at it, how about some of apple's little quirks? (
Loma Prieta, Moof, etc.)

--Owen Mathews (mat...@s9000.furman.edu)

Michael A. Balfour

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 10:15:4514.06.94
an

In a previous article, ho...@cc.Helsinki.FI (P. Hoyer) says:

>Hi,
>
>It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
>integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.
>

FUBAR = F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition

Just like most programs in those examples. :)

Mike Balfour
CWRU Grad Student

J Kreibich

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 10:51:1814.06.94
an
ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Balfour) writes:


>>It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
>>integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.

>FUBAR = F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition

This was a well known WWII (or was it I?) reference.

That got changed to "foo" and "bar" in the early computing days at
MIT, and became the standard generic variable names. For more info
see the New Hackers Dictionary (it is on the Web somewhere too).
It is a tradition thing, although in my code I like to use "_" to
confuse the TAs... Having a variable "_", "__" and "___" can make
things real interesting.

-j

--
Jay Kreibich University of Illinois, U/C Undergrad Computer Science
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You think that I want to be understood..." -They Might Be Giants
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<a href="http://delphi.beckman.uiuc.edu/people/jay/main.html">My Home Page</a>

Antoine Paul Brusseau

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 11:00:2714.06.94
an
Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.programmer: 14-Jun-94 The origin of
'foo' and 'bar'? by P. Ho...@cc.Helsinki.FI
> It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
> integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.
>
> P.S. "Did I miss something?"

Yes.

FUBAR - fucked beyond all recourse (an old military term)

This term has been "nicefied" to "foobar" and "foo", "bar".
The people who started these terms thought they were being
excessively clever. I have my doubts about their cleverness,
but there is no doubt they were successful in getting
other people to use them. There is obviously such a need for
standard generic variable and function names that people
grasped at the first non-utterly-boring ones to come along.
The use of these terms is so widespread that the original
meaning has almost been lost. However, people with a modicum
of decorum avoid using "foo" and "bar".'

Tony
ab...@andrew.cmu.edu


David Nebiker

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 11:23:1114.06.94
an
In article <2tk9ev$c...@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
ho...@cc.Helsinki.FI (P. Hoyer) writes:

> Hi,


>
> It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
> integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.
>
> P.S. "Did I miss something?"
>

> -P. Hoyer <ho...@cc.helsinki.fi>

I believe FOOBAR is a corrupted spelling of FUBAR, the origin
of which I don't know but which stands for
'F****d Up Beyond All Recognition'.

See also SNAFU
'Situation Normal, All F****d Up'.

-- Dave N.

Michael A. Balfour

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 12:14:4514.06.94
an

In a previous article, dneb...@dgis.dtic.dla.mil (David Nebiker) says:

>I believe FOOBAR is a corrupted spelling of FUBAR, the origin
>of which I don't know but which stands for
>'F****d Up Beyond All Recognition'.
>
>See also SNAFU
>'Situation Normal, All F****d Up'.

I have to admit, I've never seen:
void main() {
int snaff;
int foo;

John W. Baxter

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 12:18:3014.06.94
an
In article <jk.771...@sparc13.cs.uiuc.edu>, j...@sparc13.cs.uiuc.edu (J
Kreibich) wrote:

> ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Balfour) writes:
>
>
> >>It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
> >>integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.
>
> >FUBAR = F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition
>
> This was a well known WWII (or was it I?) reference.

While we're at it, fubar is a close relation (and derived from, I believe)
"snafu", also of military origin:
Situation Normal: All Fouled Up. [well, almost those words]
--
John Baxter Port Ludlow, WA, USA [West shore, Puget Sound]
No hablo Intel.
jwba...@pt.olympus.net

Pete Gontier

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 14:09:3214.06.94
an
ho...@cc.Helsinki.FI (P. Hoyer) writes:

>It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
>integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.

From ftp.uunet.net:/systems/gnu/jarg300.txt.gz (an impossibly
rich source of such info)...

----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

:bar: /bar/ n. 1. The second {metasyntactic variable}, after {foo}
and before {baz}. "Suppose we have two functions: FOO and BAR.
FOO calls BAR...." 2. Often appended to {foo} to produce
{foobar}.

:foo: /foo/ 1. interj. Term of disgust. 2. Used very generally
as a sample name for absolutely anything, esp. programs and files
(esp. scratch files). 3. First on the standard list of
{metasyntactic variable}s used in syntax examples. See also
{bar}, {baz}, {qux}, {quux}, {corge}, {grault},
{garply}, {waldo}, {fred}, {plugh}, {xyzzy},
{thud}.

The etymology of hackish `foo' is obscure. When used in
connection with `bar' it is generally traced to the WWII-era Army
slang acronym FUBAR (`Fucked Up Beyond All Repair'), later
bowdlerized to {foobar}. (See also {FUBAR}).

However, the use of the word `foo' itself has more complicated
antecedents, including a long history in comic strips and cartoons.
The old "Smokey Stover" comic strips by Bill Holman often
included the word `FOO', in particular on license plates of cars;
allegedly, `FOO' and `BAR' also occurred in Walt Kelly's
"Pogo" strips. In the 1938 cartoon "The Daffy Doc", a very
early version of Daffy Duck holds up a sign saying "SILENCE IS
FOO!"; oddly, this seems to refer to some approving or positive
affirmative use of foo. It has been suggested that this might be
related to the Chinese word `fu' (sometimes transliterated
`foo'), which can mean "happiness" when spoken with the proper
tone (the lion-dog guardians flanking the steps of many Chinese
restaurants are properly called "fu dogs").

Earlier versions of this entry suggested the possibility that
hacker usage actually sprang from "FOO, Lampoons and Parody",
the title of a comic book first issued in September 1958, a joint
project of Charles and Robert Crumb. Though Robert Crumb (then in
his mid-teens) later became one of the most important and
influential artists in underground comics, this venture was hardly
a success; indeed, the brothers later burned most of the existing
copies in disgust. The title FOO was featured in large letters on
the front cover. However, very few copies of this comic actually
circulated, and students of Crumb's `oeuvre' have established
that this title was a reference to the earlier Smokey Stover
comics.

An old-time member reports that in the 1959 "Dictionary of the
TMRC Language", compiled at {TMRC} there was an entry that went
something like this:

FOO: The first syllable of the sacred chant phrase "FOO MANE PADME
HUM." Our first obligation is to keep the foo counters turning.

For more about the legendary foo counters, see {TMRC}. Almost
the entire staff of what became the MIT AI LAB was involved with
TMRC, and probably picked the word up there.

Very probably, hackish `foo' had no single origin and derives
through all these channels from Yiddish `feh' and/or English
`fooey'.

:foobar: n. Another common {metasyntactic variable}; see {foo}.
Hackers do *not* generally use this to mean {FUBAR} in
either the slang or jargon sense.
--
Pete Gontier, CTO, Integer Poet Software; gur...@netcom.com

"Bedrock does support a form of drag and drop. Development dragged on
for about two years, and then was dropped." -- Brian Clark

Mark Hanrek

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 17:14:3914.06.94
an
In article <YhzQM=i00iUx...@andrew.cmu.edu> Antoine Paul Brusseau,
ab...@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

> The use of these terms is so widespread that the original
> meaning has almost been lost. However, people with a modicum
> of decorum avoid using "foo" and "bar".'

I agree. The use of "foo" and "bar" in all future examples should be
avoided.

Because these words are not descriptive of what they are supposed to
represent, it often makes the example more difficult to understand, which
is the opposite of the purpose of an example. :)

The effect can be subtle, but we can think of it as adding a certain
amount of "drag" on our ability to assimilate the information being
conveyed, like "aerodynamic drag" affects an airplane's ability to go
fast.

Sometimes it can add up.

An extreme example of this effect is reading some academic papers, in
which the author uses every big word and complex form of expression s/he
can think of. We know why they're really doing this, eh? :)

Interestingly, the style of communication with the least "drag", or
cognitive resistance, is a style considered unprofessional. Oh, well.
That's the breaks. :)

Of course, the less "drag" there is, the more stuff we can deal with
while trying to make headway on something new.

It's a fascinating topic.

-----

I can't think of any advantage of using foo or bar or both, can anyone?


Mark Hanrek
The Information Workshop

Brent

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 18:32:1114.06.94
an
jwba...@olympus.net (John W. Baxter) writes:
|
|While we're at it, fubar is a close relation (and derived from, I believe)
|"snafu", also of military origin:
| Situation Normal: All Fouled Up. [well, almost those words]

In fact, media has jumped on this so much so that whenever I do
turn the TV on to evening news, some newscaster is saying, "Well, the
Whitewater snafu has blah blah blah." I've heard this many times
recently. It makes you wonder if they really know what it stands
for.

Not to mention the apparent misuse of it, as a synonym for 'mistake.'

-Brent
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brent Burton, bre...@math.tamu.edu |
| System Administrator, Department of Mathematics |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Matt Mora

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 18:13:4914.06.94
an
In article <2tkcpm$g...@ns9000.furman.edu> mat...@ns9000.furman.edu (E. Owen Mathews) writes:

>... And while we're at it, how about some of apple's little quirks? (
>Loma Prieta, Moof, etc.)

Loma Prieta was the fault line that was responsible for the 1989
earth quake in the SF Bay Area. We (Bar area residents) call that quake
"the Loma Prieta" quake. At the time of the quake, Apple was trying to get
System 7 out the door. Apple Cupertino suffered some damage but appearently
lost no important files. Otherwise they would have used it for an excuse
for why System 7 was so late. :-)


Moof!(tm) is the sound "Clarus" the dogcow makes. A dogcow is well documented
in Technote #31.


Xavier

--
___________________________________________________________
Matthew Xavier Mora Matt...@sri.com
SRI International mxm...@unix.sri.com
333 Ravenswood Ave Menlo Park, CA. 94025

Rick Holzgrafe

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 18:03:4514.06.94
an
In article <2tkcpm$g...@ns9000.furman.edu>, mat...@ns9000.furman.edu (E.
Owen Mathews) wrote:

> ... And while we're at it, how about some of apple's little quirks? (
> Loma Prieta, Moof, etc.)

"Loma Prieta" was the official name of the earthquake which struck during
Game 3 of the 1989 World Series. It had the same effect on Apple as a good
swift kick has on an anthill, and we all remember it with, shall we say,
lively interest.

"Moof!" is the characteristic utterance of the DogCow. Select "Page Setup"
for a LaserWriter and click the Options button, and you will see the beast
itself, the adopted mascot of Apple Developer Technical Support and an
object of reverence and affection to all Mac developers wherever they may
be.

-- Rick Holzgrafe, a member of the Taligentsia
Rick_Ho...@taligent.com
r...@taligent.com

Elizabeth Scharf

ungelesen,
14.06.1994, 23:35:2414.06.94
an
foo and bar are from a US Military acronym FUBAR - F*CK*D UP BEYOND
ALL RECOGNITION.

The one I always wanted to know the etymology of was variables called "fred"

rmgw

This is not my account: Please address replies to hawk...@aol.com

Disclaimer: All views expressed are entirely my own and do not reflect
the opinions of Elizabeth Scharf or the University of Washington.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley | A Capitalist is someone who | "Intel Inside"
hawk...@aol.com | knows the price of everything | is a warning
71062...@compuserve.com | and the value of nothing. | label...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

John W. Baxter

ungelesen,
15.06.1994, 00:12:5415.06.94
an
In article <CrEoC...@crash.cts.com>, Mark Hanrek <han...@cts.com> wrote:

>
> I can't think of any advantage of using foo or bar or both, can anyone?
>

Habit.

Zalman Stern

ungelesen,
15.06.1994, 01:33:1315.06.94
an
Antoine Paul Brusseau <ab...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes

> The use of these terms is so widespread that the original
> meaning has almost been lost. However, people with a modicum
> of decorum avoid using "foo" and "bar".'

Given that these are used as meta-variables, the lack of other meaning is
good. Almost every technical person I deal with uses "foo" and "bar" in
informal conversation about code every now and then. In fact I often wonder
if programmers don't develop a couple of appropriately labelled short-term
memory locations to deal with this. Obviously if the items you are dealing
with lend themselves to descriptive names (e.g. "caller" and "callee") or
are concrete instead of abstract, use of foo and bar is a bad idea. However
there are plenty of cases where it makes sense to use them and they work
better than "x and y" or "a and b." The benefit drops off pretty quickly
with baz and quux though. If you need that many meta-identifiers, its
probably time to write the description down and work on some better names
anyway.
--
Zalman Stern zal...@adobe.com (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
`Wait a second! This is just an octahedron suspended in blue liquid.' - JT

Gary Thompson

ungelesen,
15.06.1994, 04:42:2615.06.94
an
In article e...@news.u.washington.edu, easc...@u.washington.edu (Elizabeth Scharf) writes:
> foo and bar are from a US Military acronym FUBAR - F*CK*D UP BEYOND
> ALL RECOGNITION.
>
> The one I always wanted to know the etymology of was variables called "fred"
>
fred is simple look at your keyboard the keys f-r-e-d are in an anti clockwise circle on an qwerty keyboard so fred is easy to type and memorable


gary

Bruce Hoult

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 01:06:4316.06.94
an
easc...@u.washington.edu (Elizabeth Scharf) writes:
> The one I always wanted to know the etymology of was variables called "fred"

Isn't FRED similar to qwerty and asdf in being simply something easy to
type because of proximity on the KB?

-- Bruce

Angus McIntyre

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 03:22:3716.06.94
an
In article <2tlsts$e...@news.u.washington.edu>, easc...@u.washington.edu (Richard Wesley) wrote:

>foo and bar are from a US Military acronym FUBAR - F*CK*D UP BEYOND
>ALL RECOGNITION.

Correct. The story goes that 'foo' and 'bar' were introduced to the world
of programming by John McCarthy, who used the atoms 'foo' and 'bar' to
demonstrate the effect of the LISP operation 'cons', the result, of
course, being '(foo bar). This apparently appealed considerably to his
students.

LISP programmers know that the next two random variable names after
'foo' and 'bar' are 'baz' and 'quux' (and I have no idea why - Guy
Steele edited a songbook called "The Great Quux, and Other Hacks",
but I think the use of 'quux' as a variable name predated this).
In Italy, 'pinko', 'pippo' and 'pallo' are used for the same purpose.

>The one I always wanted to know the etymology of was variables called
> "fred"

Look at the placement of the keys on the keyboard, and you have the
answer.

A

x--------------------------------------------------------------------x
| Angus McIntyre an...@aegypt.demon.co.uk an...@arti.vub.ac.be |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "I am here by the will of the people ... and I will not leave |
| until I get my raincoat back." ['Metrophage', Richard Kadrey] |
x--------------------------------------------------------------------x

Pete Gontier

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 03:26:1816.06.94
an
Mark Hanrek <han...@cts.com> writes:

>In article <YhzQM=i00iUx...@andrew.cmu.edu> Antoine Paul Brusseau,
>ab...@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

>> The use of these terms is so widespread that the original
>> meaning has almost been lost. However, people with a modicum
>> of decorum avoid using "foo" and "bar".'

>I agree. The use of "foo" and "bar" in all future examples should be
>avoided. Because these words are not descriptive of what they are
>supposed to represent, it often makes the example more difficult to
>understand, which is the opposite of the purpose of an example. :)

I can't believe I'm arguing this point, but there's no helping it.
'foo' and 'bar' play the role of variable-whose-name-is-irrelevant.
In real code, you wouldn't want to use 'foo' and 'bar', but such was
never suggested. They are mostly useful in abstract examples as an
infintessimally more creative alternative to 'x', 'y', 'i', 'j', and the
like.


--
Pete Gontier, CTO, Integer Poet Software; gur...@netcom.com

"The human race will decree from time to time: 'There is something at
which it is absolutely forbidden to laugh.'" -- Nietzche on C++

David Cake

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 08:23:0316.06.94
an
In <CrEoC...@crash.cts.com> Mark Hanrek <han...@cts.com> writes:

>In article <YhzQM=i00iUx...@andrew.cmu.edu> Antoine Paul Brusseau,
>ab...@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

>> The use of these terms is so widespread that the original
>> meaning has almost been lost. However, people with a modicum
>> of decorum avoid using "foo" and "bar".'

>I agree. The use of "foo" and "bar" in all future examples should be
>avoided.

>Because these words are not descriptive of what they are supposed to
>represent, it often makes the example more difficult to understand, which
>is the opposite of the purpose of an example. :)

>I can't think of any advantage of using foo or bar or both, can anyone?

You've missed the point - the point of foo and bar is exactly that
they have no meaning, so if you are familiar with the foo/bar/baz etc.
series, when you see an example with foo and bar in it you no that they can
be replaced with any appropriate thing. If you used a meaningful name there
is the possibility that people might think that the actual name had some
particular syntactic significance. The meaning of foo and bar is that they
have no meaning. When you are trying to explain what an example does exactly
then you might want to avoid foo and bar (or if you are trying to show
good variable naming conventions), but if you are trying to explain a point
of syntax then foo and bar are fine choices.
As to whether they should be avoided on grounds of decorum, I doubt
that the joke is likely to be picked up and taken offence at (the ones who
understand are unlikely to be offended) and there is no other well known
series of metasyntactic variables that I know of. Inventing a more polite
set is left as an exercise to the reader, but is unlikely to catch on.
Cheers
David Cake

PS thanks to the guy who quoted from the jargon file, saves me the trouble.
I am surprised so many people did not jump to it as first reference.

>Mark Hanrek
>The Information Workshop

--
David Cake |life is easily understood as bit strings with logical
|depth greater than their length - Rebis, Doom Patrol
Slowly, without trying, everyone becomes what he despises most. - Steve Albini

Chuck Hoffman

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 10:20:1016.06.94
an
In article <YhzQM=i00iUx...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Antoine Paul Brusseau
<ab...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.programmer: 14-Jun-94 The origin of
>

> FUBAR - fucked beyond all recourse (an old military term)

We learned something close to the above:

F*cked Up Beyond All Recognition
More polite form: Fouled Up Beyond All Recognition

Goes back at least to the 50's.

Chuck Hoffman
U.S. Naval Academy
Class of 1969

Doug Houseman

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 11:01:5116.06.94
an
According to an account that ran in ACM in the late '70s.foo and bar
were used by Grace Hopper in a demo that she was giving in the late
1940's and several people have since done it. Fubar is indeed a military
term dating from WWI and the navy the original word was fouled and related
to raising the anchor from some very nasty harbor bottoms. It is now
in wide use within the military and is a major contribution to the
civilian language pool. {-:

--=doug=--
do...@msen.com MacHack Ann Arbor MI 23-25 June 1994

103t_e...@west.cscwc.pima.edu

ungelesen,
15.06.1994, 03:17:0015.06.94
an
In article <2tla2u$i...@unix.sri.com>, mxm...@unix.sri.com (Matt Mora) writes:
> In article <2tkcpm$g...@ns9000.furman.edu> mat...@ns9000.furman.edu (E. Owen Mathews) writes:
>
>>... And while we're at it, how about some of apple's little quirks? (
>>Loma Prieta, Moof, etc.)

[earthquake deleted]

>
> Moof!(tm) is the sound "Clarus" the dogcow makes. A dogcow is well documented
> in Technote #31.
>

But WHERE is Technote #31?

And is it true that Clarus retires with System 7.5?


Lawson

Jonathan Kimmitt

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 13:53:4816.06.94
an
In article <2tk9ev$c...@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> P. Hoyer, ho...@cc.Helsinki.FI
writes:

>It would be interesting to know why almost all code examples use
>integers and functions and types named 'foo' and 'bar'.
^^^^^^^^

You forgot to mention that for integers i,j,k are almost universally used,
especially as loop counters 'e.g. for i = 1 to 10'

This is universal proof that all algorithmic languages are developed from
a common
root i.e. FORTRAN-IV

mainstay of the scientific community, that defined variables beginning A
through H
as reals, and I through P(?) as integers (excuse the "foreign" spelling)

More distantly, this rule was probably derived from the epsilon(i,j,k) of
matrix
algebra which was one of the most common uses for early FORTRAN programs

Jason Grossman

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 16:11:0616.06.94
an
Jonathan Kimmitt wrote:
> This is universal proof that all algorithmic languages are developed from
> a common
> root i.e. FORTRAN-IV
>
> mainstay of the scientific community, that defined variables beginning A
> through H
> as reals, and I through P(?) as integers


Thus the old joke "God is real, unless defined integer".

Bob Estes

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 15:19:4616.06.94
an
I have a very strong suspicion that "foo bar" == "fubar" ==
"f(ucked)u(p)b(eyond)a(ll)r(eason)".

Amanda Walker

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 20:56:0716.06.94
an
ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Balfour) writes:
> FUBAR = F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition

Anyone who's had to deal with DEC machines knows the meaning of FUBAR: "Failed
Unibus Address Register"...


Amanda Walker
InterCon Systems Corporation


fx...@aurora.alaska.edu

ungelesen,
16.06.1994, 22:56:1216.06.94
an
In article <YhzQM=i00iUx...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Antoine Paul Brusseau <ab...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> The use of these terms is so widespread that the original
> meaning has almost been lost. However, people with a modicum
> of decorum avoid using "foo" and "bar".'

While I agree with your second statement, I seem to find (to my neverending
horror) that the terms 'foo', 'bar', and, jointly, 'fubar' seem to fit my
programs just a LITTLE too well... I think the original meaning is alive and
well...

---
Milo (Michael) Sharp VMSMail : fx...@aurora.alaska.edu
Macintosh Lab Manager and AppleMail : mi...@server.uafac.alaska.edu
Apple Student Representative AppleLink : milo....@applelink.apple.com
Academic Computing SnailMail : PO Box 752324
University of Alaska, Fairbanks Fairbanks, AK 99775-2324

Pete Gontier

ungelesen,
17.06.1994, 00:36:1617.06.94
an
103t_e...@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:

>But WHERE is Technote #31?

My copy is in a safe deposit box. Call me sentimental.


--
Pete Gontier, CTO, Integer Poet Software; gur...@netcom.com

'It seems the firm contracted by Intel to produce the famed "flying
Pentium" ads could not complete the 3-D modeling on a PC before
deadline. So in the best know-your-enemy tradition, they chose the next
best thing -- a Quadra 840AV.' -- Mac The Knife 4/18/94

Howard Berkey

ungelesen,
17.06.1994, 02:29:1717.06.94
an
In article <gurgleCr...@netcom.com> gur...@netcom.com (Pete Gontier) writes:
>103t_e...@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:
>
>>But WHERE is Technote #31?
>
>My copy is in a safe deposit box. Call me sentimental.

I had a copy that I, like a putz, deleted. I'm sure some day that
will come back to haunt me.

-H-


--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Howard Berkey how...@netcom.com
Eat at C-Ko's
...........................................................................

Kevin R. Boyce

ungelesen,
17.06.1994, 12:19:2217.06.94
an
how...@netcom.com (Howard Berkey) wrote:

> gur...@netcom.com (Pete Gontier) writes:
> >103t_e...@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:
> >
> >>But WHERE is Technote #31?
> >
> >My copy is in a safe deposit box. Call me sentimental.
>
> I had a copy that I, like a putz, deleted. I'm sure some day that
> will come back to haunt me.

Here you go, Howard. Unless you meant you had a paper copy, which you
"deleted" with a match. :-) Someone posted this a year or so ago, so here
it is again.

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rr`%!!-&lFL!33)&!J4PE!!!:

--
Kevin Kevin....@gsfc.nasa.gov
I then suspended the assembly by the edges of the CD, and began filling
the box with Inside Macintosh volumes. --Kevin Bell

Howard Berkey

ungelesen,
17.06.1994, 23:42:3417.06.94
an

Thanks!

Pete Gontier

ungelesen,
18.06.1994, 00:53:5618.06.94
an
how...@netcom.com (Howard Berkey) writes:

>In article <gurgleCr...@netcom.com> gur...@netcom.com (Pete
>Gontier) writes:
>
>>103t_e...@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:
>>
>>>But WHERE is Technote #31?
>>
>>My copy is in a safe deposit box. Call me sentimental.
>
>I had a copy that I, like a putz, deleted. I'm sure some day that will
>come back to haunt me.

Are you using "deleted" in a metaphorical sense? See, when I referred to
my copy in the safe deposit box, I was talking about an original copy
printed on dead trees as mailed out by Apple via USPS. I have a xerox
copy framed on my wall. :-)


--
Pete Gontier, CTO, Integer Poet Software; gur...@netcom.com

"...where they burn books, people are next." -- XTC

Alan Braggins

ungelesen,
17.06.1994, 10:25:2917.06.94
an
In article <46...@io.camcon.co.uk> jr...@camcon.co.uk (Jonathan Kimmitt) writes:
This is universal proof that all algorithmic languages are developed from
a common root i.e. FORTRAN-IV
mainstay of the scientific community, that defined variables beginning A
through H
as reals, and I through P(?) as integers (excuse the "foreign" spelling)

R onwards are reals, I onwards are integers.

The convention came into FORTRAN from maths.
And if you think FORTRAN-IV was the first FORTRAN, here is a clue -
the IV is a roman number, not part of the original acronym :-)
--
Alan Braggins ar...@setanta.demon.co.uk abra...@cix.compulink.co.uk
"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced"

Francois Pottier

ungelesen,
18.06.1994, 04:15:1818.06.94
an
In article <46...@io.camcon.co.uk>, Jonathan Kimmitt <jr...@camcon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>You forgot to mention that for integers i,j,k are almost universally used,
>especially as loop counters 'e.g. for i = 1 to 10'
>
>This is universal proof that all algorithmic languages are developed from
>a common root i.e. FORTRAN-IV

Uh ? Ever heard about *math* ?

--
Francois Pottier pot...@dmi.ens.fr
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check my WWW page at http://acacia.ens.fr:8080/home/pottier/index.html ...

Thomas E. DeWeese

ungelesen,
18.06.1994, 12:38:1318.06.94
an
In article <46...@io.camcon.co.uk>, Jonathan Kimmitt <jr...@camcon.co.uk> wrote:
>You forgot to mention that for integers i,j,k are almost universally used,
>especially as loop counters 'e.g. for i = 1 to 10'

Well when I was first learning to program, I used TRS-80 basic
which was all caps. Well I didn't have a lot of programming examples
and most/all of the one's I saw only had one looping variable - 'I'.
So when I started writting my own code, I simply extrapolated:
II, III, IV, V, VI ...

When I finally got some real programming background, and had
some more math under my belt, I started to notice that everyone else
was using 'j' when I was using 'II'. I still like using 'II', but I
don't anymore since other people (and very occationally myself),
would get confused between 'I' and 'II'.
--
Thomas DeWeese
dewe...@rdrc.rpi.edu
"The only difference between theory and practice is
that in theory there isn't any." -- unknown

Howard Berkey

ungelesen,
18.06.1994, 18:24:4618.06.94
an
In article <gurgleCr...@netcom.com> gur...@netcom.com (Pete Gontier) writes:
>
>Are you using "deleted" in a metaphorical sense? See, when I referred to
>my copy in the safe deposit box, I was talking about an original copy
>printed on dead trees as mailed out by Apple via USPS. I have a xerox
>copy framed on my wall. :-)

Electro-metaphorical. No trees died for my dogcow!

Pete Gontier

ungelesen,
19.06.1994, 00:44:2319.06.94
an
how...@netcom.com (Howard Berkey) writes:

> No trees died for my dogcow!

When I see the beatific image of Clarus, or perhaps Clarus itself, I
know not what I do. When the sainted dogcow passes from my gaze, I often
discover myself in another room, or down the street, sometimes with
my hands around a co-worker's throat, other times dispensing food to
lepers. This is to say Clarus transcends such petty concerns as ensuring
future generations have enough oxygen to breathe. It's bigger than us
all.


--
Pete Gontier, CTO, Integer Poet Software; gur...@netcom.com

"Bedrock does support a form of drag and drop. Development dragged on
for about two years, and then was dropped." -- Brian Clark

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