i486 revisited
zoster
I've recently got hold of a dilapidated 486 m/c which has 8MB RAM and
a 2GB harddisk; and want to put it to good use. Can anyone suggest me
the best version of linux which will be suited for this thingy? At
present, I'm running pocket linux and am' only able to telnet to
servers. Is it possible to add a sound card and run mpg123 with such a
small RAM?
Any possibility of running X - or am i asking for too much??!!
Thanx in advance,
Zoster
James Knott
Certainly you can get a command line only running in it, but yes, X
would be too much for it.
--
To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
james.knott.
Bryon Lape
Mark Kent
>Hi all,
>I've recently got hold of a dilapidated 486 m/c which has 8MB RAM and
>a 2GB harddisk; and want to put it to good use. Can anyone suggest me
>the best version of linux which will be suited for this thingy? At
At 2G of hard disk space, any modern distro should be fine. At 8M of
ram, you'll need a good size swap partition, though.
Personally, I use debian.
>present, I'm running pocket linux and am' only able to telnet to
>servers. Is it possible to add a sound card and run mpg123 with such a
>small RAM?
Yes to the soundcard (although you're likely to want an ISA card, I would
expect), mpg123 is likely to be a bit processor intensive for an older
486, but try it and see.
>Any possibility of running X - or am i asking for too much??!!
You should have no problem at all with X. Use a lightweight window
manager rather than one of the very modern 'desktop' things, which will
be too resource intensive for such a machine. twm would be a good start.
If you've another machine running X, this machine would make an excellent
xterminal.
--
Mark Kent
Take out the ham to mail me.
Edward Rosten
Sure, X can run on one of those. The sound card may or may not run, I
couldn't say.
I could reccomend RedHat 5.2, which was a very solid distribution, and is
still suited to low end hardware. I wouldn't bother with Gnome or
anything like that.
You might want to upgrade the kernel to 2.2 or 2.4 if you find some of
the hardware is not supported in 2.0.37 (but I doubt that'll be the case).
You may also want to get hold of netscape 2.X or 3.X.
Another distro is Monkey Linux which is much smaller. It comes with X,
netscape and gcc.
-Ed
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
{moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
for /s 15 d f pop 240 420 m 0 1 3 { 4 2 1 r sub -1 r show } for showpage
Alexander Korves
Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
compile a new kernel ;-)
forget it to run x on it. then you will need at least 32mb ram (buy it
at ebay!).
A tip: the type of distribution is not so important. i use suse 7.2 on
it. But, install the hdd in a faster pc and copy the linux on it. then
reinstall the hdd into the 486 and have fun. If you try to install
directly on the 486 you will have a beard afterwards.
Greetings; Alex
charles lyttle
example. They target such small systems. If your BIOS chips aren't
soldered in, you might be able to flash new bios chips and boot linux
from there. The 486 is still a common chip used in industry.
--
Russ Lyttle
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
lyt...@earthlink.net
ken_yap_72...@ziztbq.hooya.com
|compile a new kernel ;-)
|
|forget it to run x on it. then you will need at least 32mb ram (buy it
|at ebay!).
|A tip: the type of distribution is not so important. i use suse 7.2 on
|it. But, install the hdd in a faster pc and copy the linux on it. then
|reinstall the hdd into the 486 and have fun. If you try to install
|directly on the 486 you will have a beard afterwards.
Good idea, but watch out for one thing. Some distro installers install
kernels and/or packages (e.g. libraries) based on what processor was
autodetected and then when you take your disk over to the 486, it won't
run. I think SuSE only does this for the kernel and gives you a choice.
So choose the i486 or i386 kernel. And of course, remember that Mandrake
requires a Pentium.
PS: 8MB is ok for command line, but if you want to run X, get 16 or 32
MB. Otherwise you'll thrash the swap to death. And then with a 33 MHz
processor, perhaps it's better to run it as an X-terminal and run the
apps on a heftier machine.
jvbrad
"Mark Kent" <ma...@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:602cq9...@192.168.1.1...
I agree. X was around _long_ before the 486. If you can get hold of some
more RAM that would be good, but not essential. As Mark said, keep the
window manager nice and simple (if you're going to be running it on the
486) - no Enlightenment for you!
james.
Robert Heller
In a message on Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:27:13 +0100, wrote :
"R> In article <66562c8.01101...@posting.google.com>, "zoster" <rzo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"R>
"R> > Hi all,
"R> > I've recently got hold of a dilapidated 486 m/c which has 8MB RAM and
"R> > a 2GB harddisk; and want to put it to good use. Can anyone suggest me
"R> > the best version of linux which will be suited for this thingy? At
"R> > present, I'm running pocket linux and am' only able to telnet to
"R> > servers. Is it possible to add a sound card and run mpg123 with such a
"R> > small RAM?
"R> > Any possibility of running X - or am i asking for too much??!!
"R> > Thanx in advance,
"R> > Zoster
"R>
"R> Sure, X can run on one of those. The sound card may or may not run, I
"R> couldn't say.
An old ISA SoundBlaster 16 should work just great with any recent
version of Linux.
"R>
"R>
"R> I could reccomend RedHat 5.2, which was a very solid distribution, and is
"R> still suited to low end hardware. I wouldn't bother with Gnome or
"R> anything like that.
RH 6.1 runs just fine on my '486 print server (X is not installed).
"R>
"R> You might want to upgrade the kernel to 2.2 or 2.4 if you find some of
"R> the hardware is not supported in 2.0.37 (but I doubt that'll be the case).
"R>
"R> You may also want to get hold of netscape 2.X or 3.X.
"R>
"R>
"R> Another distro is Monkey Linux which is much smaller. It comes with X,
"R> netscape and gcc.
"R>
"R> -Ed
"R>
"R>
"R> --
"R> You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
"R>
"R> /d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
"R> {moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
"R> for /s 15 d f pop 240 420 m 0 1 3 { 4 2 1 r sub -1 r show } for showpage
"R>
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: hel...@cs.umass.edu
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || hel...@deepsoft.com
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
Nigel Feltham
> MB. Otherwise you'll thrash the swap to death. And then with a 33 MHz
> processor, perhaps it's better to run it as an X-terminal and run the
> apps on a heftier machine.
Back in the days of slackware 2.0 I used to run X on a 486 DX2 66mhz with
4mb of Ram and 100mb hard-drive using fvwm window manager. Having a low
amount of RAM is not a problem if you can handle using an early distro.
One of the download mirror sites listed at www.slackware.org should have
something something old enough to suit your machine ( I just looked at the
sunsite UK mirror and this goes back as far as version 3.9).
Grant Edwards
>Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
>compile a new kernel ;-) forget it to run x on it. then you will need at
>least 32mb ram (buy it at ebay!).
Has the X server really grown that much? I ran X on 4M and 8M machines for
years. It swapped if you compiled stuff under X, but it was quite usable.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Where's the Coke
at machine? Tell me a joke!!
visi.com
zoster
. If your BIOS chips aren't
> soldered in, you might be able to flash new bios chips and boot linux
> from there.
Hey, that sounds interesting ... where can i get more info on that??
thanx,
zoster
zoster
> zoster wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
> compile a new kernel ;-)
> forget it to run x on it. then you will need at least 32mb ram (buy it
> at ebay!).
Yeah, i do have extra RAM with me. But somehow the BIOS fails to
detect it. In fact, when i add an additional 8MB SIMM, the memory
check shows the total mem as 2MB!! ... will a BIOS upgrade help in
this case?
thanx,
zoster
Robert Heller
In a message on 14 Oct 2001 13:04:47 -0700, wrote :
z> Alexander Korves <a.ko...@web.de> wrote in message news:<3BC9875E...@web.de>...
z> > zoster wrote:
z> >
z> > >
z> >
z> > Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
z> > compile a new kernel ;-)
z> > forget it to run x on it. then you will need at least 32mb ram (buy it
z> > at ebay!).
z>
z> Yeah, i do have extra RAM with me. But somehow the BIOS fails to
z> detect it. In fact, when i add an additional 8MB SIMM, the memory
z> check shows the total mem as 2MB!! ... will a BIOS upgrade help in
z> this case?
*8* meg SIMMs are 'double sided'. (2M, 8M, 32M SIMMs are all double
sided) On a *486*, 'double sided' SIMMs 'use up' *two* sockets -- '486
motherboards can only use these SIMMs in the odd or even (depends on
the motherboard) sockets. It is possible that *some* (older)
'486 motherboards cannot deal with double sided SIMMs at all.
'486s (and '386s) use a 32-bit wide memory bus. '586 (Pentium) and up
use a 64-bit wide memory bus and can use 'double sided' SIMMs in
adjacent sockets. '486s don't need pairs of SIMMs, but '586s (Pentiums)
do. A '486 will happily work with a single or odd number of SIMMs, but
a '586 (Pentium) won't. (DIMMs are different.)
Also: '486s cannot deal with EDO RAM. EDO RAM *looks* like and will fit
the same socket at non-EDO RAM.
z>
z> thanx,
z> zoster
z>
Zac
> Hi all,
> I've recently got hold of a dilapidated 486 m/c which has 8MB RAM and
> a 2GB harddisk; and want to put it to good use. Can anyone suggest me
> the best version of linux which will be suited for this thingy?
Any distro but I suggest some older with 2.2* kernel (RH 6.2 ),it should
work.
>At
> present, I'm running pocket linux and am' only able to telnet to
> servers. Is it possible to add a sound card and run mpg123 with such a
> small RAM?
> Any possibility of running X - or am i asking for too much??!!
Yes, but U have to use some lightweight window manager (twm,icewm etc)
Edward Rosten
> compile a new kernel ;-)
> forget it to run x on it. then you will need at least 32mb ram (buy it
> at ebay!).
You can run X with 8 M. It's better with 16, but 8 is OK. You have to
avoid heavy WMs, though. Best to stick to the likes of vtwm, fvwm, fvwm2
and windowmaker.
-Ed
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
/d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
{moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
charles lyttle
don't have Blue Cat handy. Both gave me CDs. I have a Blue Cat project
running on a PC104 card with a 486 as the CPU, 4meg ram, and 8meg
"disk-n-a-chip"
Terry Porter
>> Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
>> compile a new kernel ;-)
>> forget it to run x on it. then you will need at least 32mb ram (buy it
>> at ebay!).
>
>You can run X with 8 M. It's better with 16, but 8 is OK. You have to
>avoid heavy WMs, though. Best to stick to the likes of vtwm, fvwm, fvwm2
>and windowmaker.
>
>-Ed
My son set up a 486/dx4/100 with 8 megs running Debian 2.1 (Slink)
and X (Fvwm2), and that machine was reliable as, and has been in use for
over 12 months now.
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
Free Micro Burner http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
Yvan Loranger
>
> *8* meg SIMMs are 'double sided'. (2M, 8M, 32M SIMMs are all double
> sided) On a *486*, 'double sided' SIMMs 'use up' *two* sockets -- '486
> motherboards can only use these SIMMs in the odd or even (depends on
> the motherboard) sockets. It is possible that *some* (older)
> '486 motherboards cannot deal with double sided SIMMs at all.
>
> '486s (and '386s) use a 32-bit wide memory bus. '586 (Pentium) and up
> use a 64-bit wide memory bus and can use 'double sided' SIMMs in
> adjacent sockets. '486s don't need pairs of SIMMs, but '586s (Pentiums)
> do. A '486 will happily work with a single or odd number of SIMMs, but
> a '586 (Pentium) won't. (DIMMs are different.)
>
> Also: '486s cannot deal with EDO RAM. EDO RAM *looks* like and will fit
> the same socket at non-EDO RAM.
Correction, SIIMs must be installed in pairs in some 486s.
btw, 386SX used 16-bit buses. 386DX used 32-bit bus.
--
Merci...........Yvan Why don´t people understand when
I say my automobile has 100 Megametres on it?
Ian Pegel
On older motherboards you need to u[pgrade the memory in pairs, eg 2 8M
SIMMMs
--
Ian
Pan zero point ten point zero
Newsreader fit for Linux hero!
Edward Rosten
>
>>Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
>>compile a new kernel ;-) forget it to run x on it. then you will need at
>>least 32mb ram (buy it at ebay!).
>
> Has the X server really grown that much? I ran X on 4M and 8M machines for
> years. It swapped if you compiled stuff under X, but it was quite usable.
Eric Stewart
And KDE is right out!
Michael Meissner
> > In article <3BC9875E...@web.de>, Alexander Korves wrote:
> >
> >>Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
> >>compile a new kernel ;-) forget it to run x on it. then you will need at
> >>least 32mb ram (buy it at ebay!).
> >
> > Has the X server really grown that much? I ran X on 4M and 8M machines for
> > years. It swapped if you compiled stuff under X, but it was quite usable.
>
>
> You can always install an old distro.
Note, if you install an old distribution, and your machine is accessible on the
network, you are more likely to encounter hacking attempts for problems that
have since been fixed by upgrades that new distributions provide.
--
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc. (GCC group)
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work: meis...@redhat.com phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: meis...@spectacle-pond.org fax: +1 978-692-4482
Edward Rosten
> "Edward Rosten" <lo...@my.sig> writes:
>
>> > In article <3BC9875E...@web.de>, Alexander Korves wrote:
>> >
>> >>Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want to
>> >>compile a new kernel ;-) forget it to run x on it. then you will need at
>> >>least 32mb ram (buy it at ebay!).
>> >
>> > Has the X server really grown that much? I ran X on 4M and 8M machines for
>> > years. It swapped if you compiled stuff under X, but it was quite usable.
>>
>>
>> You can always install an old distro.
>
> Note, if you install an old distribution, and your machine is accessible on the
> network, you are more likely to encounter hacking attempts for problems that
> have since been fixed by upgrades that new distributions provide.
That is true, but if you remove most of the entries from /etc/inetd.conf
you'll be better off :-)
nik dronet
kernel 2.4.5 running on a 486DX2-66, w/ on board IDE and 64mb ram (yay) and
100mbit NIC. it runs the most basic windows manager very well and runs
fvwm95 fairly well. kde, gnome, enlightenment are in no way acceptable on a
486. my swap parition is never used (or at least seems that way). It's
only a machine i use to play with (learn slackware), but i enjoy it. The
netscape included w/ slack runs okay on it, but I may soon try the latest
Mozilla or Opera. The slowest link seems to be the bus speed of the
motherboard, not necessarily the chip speed. Also I tend to run VNC on it
and work from my windows laptop running the VNC client -- (so i don't have
to go back and forth accross the room).
if you could scrape up/acquire some more RAM, i'd recommend it.
"zoster" <rzo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:66562c8.01101...@posting.google.com...
Skylar Thompson
>I admit i have access to a few more RAM than you, but i have slack 8 and
>kernel 2.4.5 running on a 486DX2-66, w/ on board IDE and 64mb ram (yay) and
>100mbit NIC. it runs the most basic windows manager very well and runs
>fvwm95 fairly well. kde, gnome, enlightenment are in no way acceptable on a
>486. my swap parition is never used (or at least seems that way). It's
>only a machine i use to play with (learn slackware), but i enjoy it. The
>netscape included w/ slack runs okay on it, but I may soon try the latest
Mozilla probably isn't such a good idea; it swamps my P-I 200MHz with 64MB
of RAM before the first window is even displayed. Netscape would probably
be both faster and more reliable in this case. I'm not sure about Opera,
though; I have never used it.
--
-- Skylar Thompson (sky...@attglobal.net)
P(4.2.2) + "Skylar DXLIX" DMPo L:36 DL:2500' A++ R+++ Sp w:Stormbringer
A(JLE)*/P*/Z/J64/Ad L/O H+ D+ c f-/f PV+ s TT- d++/d+ P++ M/M+
C- S++ I+/I++ So B+ ac GHB++ SQ++ RQ+ V+ F:JLE F: Possessors strong again
Jim Richardson
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:17:33 -0500, nik dronet <nospam_n...@email.com_nospam> wrote:
>>I admit i have access to a few more RAM than you, but i have slack 8 and
>>kernel 2.4.5 running on a 486DX2-66, w/ on board IDE and 64mb ram (yay) and
>>100mbit NIC. it runs the most basic windows manager very well and runs
>>fvwm95 fairly well. kde, gnome, enlightenment are in no way acceptable on a
>>486. my swap parition is never used (or at least seems that way). It's
>>only a machine i use to play with (learn slackware), but i enjoy it. The
>>netscape included w/ slack runs okay on it, but I may soon try the latest
>>Mozilla or Opera. [snip]
>
> Mozilla probably isn't such a good idea; it swamps my P-I 200MHz with 64MB
> of RAM before the first window is even displayed. Netscape would probably
> be both faster and more reliable in this case. I'm not sure about Opera,
> though; I have never used it.
>
I tend to avoid mozilla most of the time, I use galeon and dillo. Dillo
is a web browser, very fast, no downloading nothing but viewing pages.
Galeon is much faster and less resource intensive than mozilla, based on
the gecko engine, I like it, although it doesn't seem to be quite as
complient as mozilla, not sure why. Or maybe it's less tolerant of
non-compliant html. I am not sure.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
mjcr
> "Edward Rosten" <lo...@my.sig> writes:
>
>> > In article <3BC9875E...@web.de>, Alexander Korves wrote:
>> >
>> >>Hi, I've a old ibm 486/dx33 with 8mb ram. It runs good till you want
>> >>to compile a new kernel ;-) forget it to run x on it. then you will
>> >>need at least 32mb ram (buy it at ebay!).
>> >
>> > Has the X server really grown that much? I ran X on 4M and 8M
>> > machines for years. It swapped if you compiled stuff under X, but it
>> > was quite usable.
>>
>>
>> You can always install an old distro.
>
> Note, if you install an old distribution, and your machine is accessible
> on the network, you are more likely to encounter hacking attempts for
> problems that have since been fixed by upgrades that new distributions
> provide.
That is not a factor if the machine is behind a firewall. The outside
worlds will only know about the router/firewall. And besides once you get
the older distro installed, you can update it piecemeal if nessary to
whatever level of age you prefer. I run Linux on newer and older systems
than the zoster's 486, although--I would recommend increasing the
RAM if possible, for performance purposes. I would also recommend
selecting a distro that already has ELF binaries and libc6 installed, to
save the need to someday convert to them.
The AOUT to ELF binaries conversion is not something I would not recommend
on a beginner.
--
I run Linux, no bloody RedHat, Debian, Slackware, or Corel, just Linux.
Linux accepted my new hardware without any effort on my part.
Windows took one look at my new hardware and committed suicide.
Walnut
> Hi all,
> I've recently got hold of a dilapidated 486 m/c which has 8MB RAM and
> a 2GB harddisk; and want to put it to good use. Can anyone suggest me
> the best version of linux which will be suited for this thingy? At
> present, I'm running pocket linux and am' only able to telnet to
> servers. Is it possible to add a sound card and run mpg123 with such a
> small RAM?
> Any possibility of running X - or am i asking for too much??!!
> Thanx in advance,
> Zoster
A i486 is far too slow to play *.mp3 files at 128k, stereo. You will
have to downsample using a command switch to about 32k but the quality
drops. Forget it in my opinion. Even 20Mb RAM is not enough.
mpg123 -4 file.mp3
Bernard Chan
PC to host my web site. If not a busy site will this be possible?
Is 32MB RAM sufficient?
Joe
you can get it here in source form:
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/apps/sound/soundcard/!INDEX.html
Cheers!
pl...@plonk.com
wrote:
> "Edward Rosten" <lo...@my.sig>,
> In a message on Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:27:13 +0100, wrote :
>
> "R> In article <66562c8.01101...@posting.google.com>, "zoster" <rzo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "R>
> "R> > Hi all,
> "R> > I've recently got hold of a dilapidated 486 m/c which has 8MB RAM and
> "R> > a 2GB harddisk; and want to put it to good use. Can anyone suggest me
> "R> > the best version of linux which will be suited for this thingy? At
> "R> > present, I'm running pocket linux and am' only able to telnet to
> "R> > servers. Is it possible to add a sound card and run mpg123 with such a
> "R> > small RAM?
X will run but very slowly. Use one of the sleek window managers.
Netscape version 3 series will run okay - takes a few minutes to open
the program but after that it is reasonable to load pages.
mpg123 will run but you will need to use the "-4" option to down
sample to 32 bps (AM radio quality) and will still get lots of skips.
Maybe even have to use mono depending on the CPU.
You really need to bump the RAM up to 16 or 32.
Agathocles, Tyrant of Syracuse
it's useable in the console mode, but graphics you can forget about. I mean, it'll load
but it's unuseable. I don't know if any of the up-to-date linux'es will run on this box,
the minimum req's usually quoted are much higher. I'd be interested to hear any
testimony -- for or against that (coz I'd upgrade it to get threads if it's possible.)
Eggert Ehmke
wrote:
>On 14 Oct 2001 17:35:37 GMT, Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com>
>wrote:
> ....
>Netscape version 3 series will run okay - takes a few minutes to open
>the program but after that it is reasonable to load pages.
>
>mpg123 will run but you will need to use the "-4" option to down
>sample to 32 bps (AM radio quality) and will still get lots of skips.
>Maybe even have to use mono depending on the CPU.
>
>You really need to bump the RAM up to 16 or 32.
My old 486 / 66 MHz with 32 MB runs very fine as ISDN gateway / firewall.
Without X, of course.
--
Eggert Ehmke
Email: eggert...@berlin.de
Lee Sau Dan
Agathocles,> I have a 486 with 20 Meg ram and enough HD, with an
Agathocles,> old Caldera linux on it. I'd say it's useable in the
Agathocles,> console mode, but graphics you can forget about.
It depends on how you use it. Eye-canding desktops like KDE and Gnome
will of course make that system crawl. The memory-hog called
'netscape' should never be run. I have worked on a 486 with 16M RAM
for a year. It was smooth. I was using Emacs under X11, with a few
xterm and fvwm as window manager. From Emacs, I invoke gcc, gdb,
LaTeX, ... A little bit swapping, but was usable and fast enough.
I've also used a 386DX-40 with 16M RAM as an X-terminal for over a
year, accessing some Solaris servers. Again, the system was fast
(because the applications all run on the server).
I
--
Lee Sau Dan 李守敦(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)
E-mail: dan...@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee