Sad Day in Lahti
Gary Jacobson
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
Results of Finalndia-hiihto
22.02.2003
Finalndia-hiihto 60 km C, 22.02.2003
Men:
1 Mika Myllylä 02:52:15 Finland
2 Tyrnov Igor 02:57:32 Russia
3 Jussi Hakulinen 02:57:57 Finland
4 Jukka-Pekka Ojala 02:58:50 Finland
5 Harri Hellevaara 02:59:47 Finland
6 Juha Koskinen 03:01:56 Finland
7 Olli-Pekka Peltola 03:02:08 Finland
8 Jan Alden 03:02:15 Finland
9 Vesa Hartikainen 03:02:26 Finland
10 Marko Tulkki 03:02:34 Finland
11 Antti Varis 03:02:34 Finland
12 Petri Teittinen 03:04:00 Finland
Douglas Diehl
sentence and paid the price. Lets see what his future test results produce.
Moreover, half of the peloton in the Tour De France who dope or have doped
don't face the amount of scrutiny Mika has received. Many analogies can be
presented. Should Pete Rose be inducted into the Baseball Hall Of Fame and
so on. The point being many gifted people have fallen from grace. Haven't we
all erred in regret..
"Gary Jacobson" <gjacobson-rem...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XAS5a.98056$Xr1.24...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
A.A.
Juha Tuomas Pikkarainen
> Lets see what his future test results produce.
One test produced 147 for Mika Myllyla's hemoglobin value. It was measured in
a finnish tv-talkshow today.
-Juha Pikkarainen-
Timo Salmi
Gary Jacobson <gjacobson-rem...@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> Men:
> 1 Mika Myllylä 02:52:15 Finland
> Look at the winner. He's a loser.
Interesting. It seems that many quarters, particularly part of the
vindictive Norwegian press are not satisfied at the expiry the two
year ban. Judging from your comment they are far from alone. So,
what is it that you would actually want? A ban for life for him,
after the fact? An exclusion of all the Finns from ski races, or
what?
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Timo's Finnish bike page: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/info/timobike.html
Gary Jacobson
Thanks. Just now got back from a ski where I was thinking almost word for
word what you posted here. I agree with everything you say. I suppose I
still feel betrayed and that in someway folks like Mika represent(ed) the
ideal omnipotent parent.
Humans are inherently fallible and I can live with that.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
"Douglas Diehl" <d.c....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:O496a.67024$zF6.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Gary Jacobson
Did he say how many medals should have gone to other skiers who trained hard
but (hopefully) did not cheat?
I trust he didn't get caught the first time he cheated.
I hope that I don't sound like the Norwegian press which I understand can be
like a sleazy tabloid. I'm not just stirring the pot. I felt pretty yucky
when I read the results. But I can et over it.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
"Timo Salmi" <t...@UWasa.Fi> wrote in message
news:b3bbn7$i...@poiju.uwasa.fi...
Timo Salmi
> Did he say he was sorry, and explain what happened and how and why?
So the sentence served was insufficient? Something more still is
obviously wanting and wanted.
> Did he say how many medals should have gone to other skiers who trained hard
> but (hopefully) did not cheat?
It is a mercenary sports these days. Top skiing is no doubt fully
professional. Thus the genuine question is how much money is felt
bygone because of the alleged earlier cheating (I am not saying no
or yes to that). It is no wonder that having back more competitors
to share the spoils is not at all to some of the other nations'
liking.
> I trust he didn't get caught the first time he cheated.
So some kind of a retroactive upping of the sentence served should
be implemented on Myllylä based on unproven suspicions of earlier
offenses? A guilty verdict (but not the loss of reputation) still
requires proof of each crime in the Western justice thinking.
> I hope that I don't sound like the Norwegian press which I understand can be
> like a sleazy tabloid. I'm not just stirring the pot. I felt pretty yucky
> when I read the results. But I can et over it.
Would a 16th place as with the returning Virpi Kuitunen have been
more preferable? She was lucky in the sense that she was jumped much
less by that international press since she did not do as well as
Myllylä in Finlandia. Maybe he should have been more careful and
just drop back sufficiently into the mass in order to get less
attention.
This certainly is not a defense what the Finnish skiers did.
However, not wanting or allowing them back after served sentences
are nothing but retroactive demands of upping the punishments
afterwards. A ban for life would, of course, have taken care of all
that. But then it should go for all the nations and all the sports.
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Cross-country skiing page: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/info/timoski.html
Primoz Jeroncic
>
> Did he say he was sorry, and explain what happened and how and why?
> Did he say how many medals should have gone to other skiers who trained hard
> but (hopefully) did not cheat?
> I trust he didn't get caught the first time he cheated.
> I hope that I don't sound like the Norwegian press which I understand can be
> like a sleazy tabloid. I'm not just stirring the pot. I felt pretty yucky
> when I read the results. But I can et over it.
Actually yes he said he was sorry. Not something I would ask him
to do anyway but he still did. Second... I will say this again and
it will be exactly same thing as I said 2 years ago. Someone who
never did serious training has no right to blame those people. They
don't owe you anything and they are not responsible to you. You
have no idea what it takes to actually do nothing else but ski in
your life, all year long no matter if it's sunny or rainy outside, no
matter if you want to go for training or you feel like shit. So
please don't think you know how it is and how you would never ever
even consider doping. Your way of thinking is completely different
then way of thinking of someone who's all his life is skiing (or
some other sport). I was there and I actually know what I'm talking
about, because I know how I was thinking before and how I'm thinking
now... about this and about other things connected to sport.
--
Primoz
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Ron Bott
>
> > I trust he didn't get caught the first time he cheated.
He was caught, served his time. Why not allow him to race again. Hopefully he
will stay clean now. If you want to be upset about something, be mad that there
are many more racing today who have not been caught and will continue to dope.
That makes me more upset.
Ron Bott
Gary Jacobson
> Gary Jacobson wrote:
> >
> > Did he say he was sorry, and explain what happened and how and why?
> > Did he say how many medals should have gone to other skiers who trained
hard
> > but (hopefully) did not cheat?
> > I trust he didn't get caught the first time he cheated.
> > I hope that I don't sound like the Norwegian press which I understand
can be
> > like a sleazy tabloid. I'm not just stirring the pot. I felt pretty
yucky
> > when I read the results. But I can et over it.
"Primoz Jeroncic" <p-i...@softnet.si> wrote in message
news:3E59DDC4...@softnet.si...
>
> Actually yes he said he was sorry. Not something I would ask him
> to do anyway but he still did. Second... I will say this again and
> it will be exactly same thing as I said 2 years ago. Someone who
> never did serious training has no right to blame those people. They
> don't owe you anything and they are not responsible to you.
I disagree. They are responsible to me, and I am responsible to them as
well. It's a contract of living. It's just a matter of how we execute the
contract.
> You
> have no idea what it takes to actually do nothing else but ski in
> your life, all year long no matter if it's sunny or rainy outside, no
> matter if you want to go for training or you feel like shit. So
> please don't think you know how it is and how you would never ever
> even consider doping.
No one forces a person to ski for a living. I have a tough job. It's a
choice I make. If I cheated, people would get hurt and feel hurt. I might
look better to some people I'd like to please, but in the end it'd be a
losing proposition.
>Your way of thinking is completely different
> then way of thinking of someone who's all his life is skiing (or
> some other sport). I was there and I actually know what I'm talking
> about, because I know how I was thinking before and how I'm thinking
> now... about this and about other things connected to sport.
Well, in general I agree with you. That's why I can't stand organized
professional USA sports, and in reality WC XC Skiing is not much different
than they are. I guess a couple of years went by and I forgot about Lahti VM
fiasco until I read about Mika. In the end I think I'd be better off
following citizen racing, much like I prefer semi-pro baseball, and lower
levels of USA organized sport than I do the highest levels. It's not
necessarily the skiers, or the baseball and football players, but the money
and commercialism that drives corruption.
You're probably correct. WC skiing is a dirty world. I just wish it wasn't.
Thank you for your ideas and perspective. They helped me to understand the
problem better.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
Gary Jacobson
> This certainly is not a defense what the Finnish skiers did.
> However, not wanting or allowing them back after served sentences
> are nothing but retroactive demands of upping the punishments
> afterwards. A ban for life would, of course, have taken care of all
> that. But then it should go for all the nations and all the sports.
>
> All the best, Timo
>
> --
> Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
> Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
> mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
> Cross-country skiing page: http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/info/timoski.html
Maybe a lifetime ban is what is needed. I don't know.
In the end, what drives the whole problem is money, and our inexhaustible
need to succeed. So maybe it's a problem rooted in the very nature of humans
and the way we organize. But it is made worse by the money and commercialism
that drives our sport, and professional sport in general.
Probably the best solution is for people like me to either choose to follow
or not to follow professional sport and things like WC XC skiing.
Time to go out for a ski tour on wood skis. I wish my woolen knockers still
fit me.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
Gene Goldenfeld
>
> In the end, what drives the whole problem is money, and our inexhaustible
> need to succeed. So maybe it's a problem rooted in the very nature of humans
> and the way we organize. But it is made worse by the money and commercialism
> that drives our sport, and professional sport in general.
I'd turn that paragraph around. Professional sports are not about the
athletes but about others, now mostly corporations, profiting from
athletes' endeavors. Has always been that way, even in pre-corporate
times. In the last 19th century some individuals performed fantastic
endurance athletic feats in the US and Europe and made relatively little
compared to the promoters. This is a discussion we seem to have about
once or twice a year, usually elicited by doping issues.
GG
Jay Tegeder
a free Internet... I agree with those who say his ban was two years so
let him ski since he served his time. He knows he screwed up. I doubt
he'll ever do it again. He isn't a bad person. Mika just made a bad
decision that has tainted his past glory and success. I hope he does
come back and win clean. I can accept the guys like Myllyla,
Kirvesniemi and Isometsa who admitted their guilt. It's the creeps
like Muhlegg, Danilova and Lazutina I can't stand.
Jay Tegeder
"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT
Primoz Jeroncic <p-i...@softnet.si> wrote in message news:<3E59DDC4...@softnet.si>...
Gene Goldenfeld
>
> No one forces a person to ski for a living. I have a tough job. It's a
> choice I make. If I cheated, people would get hurt and feel hurt. I might
> look better to some people I'd like to please, but in the end it'd be a
> losing proposition.
Gary, you are directly responsible to your clients. Who exactly are
professional athletes responsible to? Their sponsors? Fans? Country?
Sportswriters? Themselves? I think the analogy is not there. Last
week, LA Times sportswriters laid into Shaquille O'Neal because he
wouldn't play for two games with a hurt knee and hurt toe that was, in
his opinion, making his performances third rate. These same sports
writers will then pontificate about drugs in sports and owners and
coaches who directly or indirectly push players into taking them to play
injured. In fact, the coach, Phil Jackson, was reported as upset with
Shaq for his choice. For the athletes, who wish to succeed, the choices
are not easy.
Gene
ESChandler
>don't face the amount of scrutiny Mika has received.
Bull. If anything, there has been more attention and scrutiny about doping in
the cycling world on the world stage than in skiing. We shouldn't kid
ourselves. Cycling in the age of Lance gets a lot more attention than XC does.
And there's the old saying, "Build a thousand bridges, but ..." I think you
know the rest. The guy cheated. I used to like Mika as an idol. Now I think
he's a creep. He shouldn't have cheated. Now, every time I read his name, I
wonder if he's doping again. We live in an age of apologists. "I'm really,
really, REALLY sorry." and then we let them continue on without any real
consequences. If we want the sport to be clean, than the penalty has to
outweigh the advantage gained through doping. Clearly, the penalties aren't
strong enough.
Erring is the human condition. We make mistakes. But participating in doping is
a crime, not an "Ooops, I doped." You don't mistakenly dope. You intend to. You
choose to. There's a difference.
Eric Chandler
Duluth, MN
Timo Salmi
> Erring is the human condition. We make mistakes. But participating in doping is
> a crime, not an "Ooops, I doped." You don't mistakenly dope. You intend to. You
Let's state the concepts even more accurately. Doping oneself is an
unacceptable violation of the rules of sports with it's consequences
(bans) in the sports world. A prosecutable crime? Not at the moment.
One the other hand smuggling and/or selling the substances are
crimes prosecutable in a court of law. That's something that we know
so unfortunately well from watching professional cycling.
All the best, Timo
--
Prof. Timo Salmi ftp & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5
Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa
mailto:t...@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland
Primoz Jeroncic
>
> Well, in general I agree with you. That's why I can't stand organized
> professional USA sports, and in reality WC XC Skiing is not much different
> than they are. I guess a couple of years went by and I forgot about Lahti VM
> fiasco until I read about Mika. In the end I think I'd be better off
> following citizen racing, much like I prefer semi-pro baseball, and lower
> levels of USA organized sport than I do the highest levels. It's not
> necessarily the skiers, or the baseball and football players, but the money
> and commercialism that drives corruption.
>
> You're probably correct. WC skiing is a dirty world. I just wish it wasn't.
Yes unfortunately WC skiing is not so clean as people think. To be
honest I don't even see reason why it should be any different then
any other sport including USA sports. White color of snow doesn't
have much to do with XC skiing being white and clean. Only difference
with, for example cycling until few years ago, was in this that
everyone knew there's doping in cycling and noone or really few
knew there's doping in skiing. But as I said before, why would
skiing be different anyway? There's also money and everything
else involved.
lustig
> 22.02.2003
> Finlandia-hiihto 60 km C, 22.02.2003
The 30th anniversary of the Finlandia took a sad toll as two
participants died of probable cardiac arrests. The first, a
male skier born in 1946, collapsed on the climb up Tiirismaa
and couldn´t be resuscitated. The second, a male skier had
a heart attack on Teilinkangas and was dead on arrival to
the hospital.
Neither had a known medical history of heart problems, both
were healthy and prepared for the race. The younger man had
raced the recent Marcia Longa in Italy.
Until this year´s race, there had been only two deaths in
the history of the Finlandia, and the previous heart attack
requiring resuscitation had occurred in 1988.
Anders
kjr
"Uskon, että Jumala tahtoi näin kohdallani käyvän. Sydämeni pohjasta haluan
pyytää virhettäni anteeksi Suomen kansalta ja koko urheilevalta maailmalta."
http://www.helsinginsanomat.fi/arkisto/juttu.asp?id=20010307UR6
My translation:
"I beleive, that God wanted this to happen to me. From the bottom of my
heart i want to apologize the finnish people and the whole skiing world my
mistake."
An apology? I think this really is an apology.
"Gary Jacobson" <gjacobson-rem...@hvc.rr.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:SXa6a.11232$%r1.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...