Age of Steam hints, please
Peter T Davies
family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely good comments for
the game, we wondered what we were doing wrong, as the finances were
especially difficult - I went bankrupt on the third go, while everyone else
was issuing shares and refusing to buy track by turn 5, just to stay
solvent.
(Just to say we play loads of "german/euro-games" like Puerto Rico, Ra, Taj
Mahal, as well as train games like Railway Rivals and Union Pacific,
although we've never tried any of the 18xx games).
Any hints, advice, etc. will be gratefully received. Thanks in anticipation,
and a Happy New Year to everyone.
Peter
RRI1
>the whole family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely
>good comments for the game, we wondered what we were doing
>wrong, as the finances were especially difficult - I went bankrupt
>on the third go, while everyone else was issuing shares and refusing
> to buy track by turn 5, just to stay solvent.
AoS *is* very tight with finances especially in the first half of the game.
Typically every player will issue at least 10 shares throughout the game,
generally taking 2 per turn through the first 4 or 5 turns. Often players
will have to take all 15 shares allowed during the game. Players will start
making profits around turn 5 or so.
You really do have to account for every dollar for the first half of the game.
A couple of suggestions:
- The basic game is best for 4. If you were playing with 5 (or heaven forbid
6) You'll find the game very, very difficult.
- For beginning players, a mercy rule can be used. You may issue a share
when expenses are due, but you receive only $4 instead of the normal $5.
Expenses must be paid on the new shares.
- It is very important to get your link count up, even though it increases
your
expenses. You need to be able to make longer shipments to gain enough
income.
- Some newbies have missed the rule where you forego a shipment to
increase your link count. (Very important rule--which if you miss causes
a major problem.)
- Don't tempted to bid too high if you are tight with cash. Make sure you
can afford the bid, the planned builds and expected income. Otherwise,
you should probably drop.
- Be careful with Engineer as that might cause you to overspend.
>(Just to say we play loads of "german/euro-games" like Puerto Rico
>, Ra, Taj Mahal, as well as train games like Railway Rivals and
>Union Pacific, although we've never tried any of the 18xx games).
Age of Steam is more austere than any of those. The only German
game that is as austere as Age of Steam is La Citta.
>Any hints, advice, etc. will be gratefully received. Thanks in anticipation,
>and a Happy New Year to everyone.
Happy New Year!
Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
Made with recycled electrons!
Windopaene
> Just got round to playing AoS which I had for Christmas, but the whole
> family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely good comments for
> the game, we wondered what we were doing wrong, as the finances were
> especially difficult - I went bankrupt on the third go, while everyone else
> was issuing shares and refusing to buy track by turn 5, just to stay
> solvent.
You were taking your income every turn weren't you? But I agree with the other
comments here in that you MUST get your link count up to start pulling in the
two and three link runs as early as you can. This will start to give you enough
income to stay solvent. And keep your bids very low early. There is usually not
all that much interesting in the early going to warrant high bids, (except
perhaps Urbanization). It's only when multiple players have links into the same
cities that move first has much effect, build first will only hurt you if
someone cuts you off, and then you can pay a few bucks more for a complex tile,
so that's not too crucial. Production is pretty much always lame. Engineer is
rarely worth fighting over, and locomotive is nice, but rarely worth a large
bid.
Kevin J. Maroney
<Windo...@nomeatinYAHacanOO.COM> wrote:
>You were taking your income every turn weren't you? But I agree with the other
>comments here in that you MUST get your link count up to start pulling in the
>two and three link runs as early as you can.
On the first turn, you'll probably need to forego a shipment
anyway--it's not uncommon for a player to start out unable to make two
1-point shimpments along his single track link. So getting the
locomotive speed (what Richard and Window are calling "link count") up
to 2 is pretty easy. It's vital not to overlook the importance of
getting it up to 3 or 4 early, though.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
<http://www.panix.com/~kjm/games-for-sale.html> updated 23 December 2003
John Bohrer
> Just got round to playing AoS which I had for Christmas, but the whole
> family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely good comments for
> the game, we wondered what we were doing wrong, as the finances were
> especially difficult - I went bankrupt on the third go, while everyone else
> was issuing shares and refusing to buy track by turn 5, just to stay
> solvent.
Bankrupt on turn 3? Insolvent on turn 5? Hmmm. This is not good.
Time for some hints...
When the game is set up, take a minute to look at what goods are where,
not only on the board but on the Goods display. Planning is important,
and production will help in later turns.
Going bankrupt on turn three means that you did not consider your
costs on turn two. The computations are simple, issuing too many
shares is not as bad as going bankrupt. Note that is is a common
fate for beginners, however embarrasing.
A safe share issuance for beginners is two shares on turns one and two.
Beginners shouldn't bid anything for turn order their first game, they
don't really know what they are doing and then it just wastes money.
A common tactic for more advanced players during the first turn is to have
two links built and transport a goods cube over these two links for an
income of two. Consider:
Selecting the Engineer action, building track from a city through a town
to another city. The first move goods instead increase your loco to 2,
the second move a good two links.
Selecting the Urbanization action, building track from a city through a
placed city that does not accept the good to another city that does accept
the good. The first move goods instead increase your loco to 2,
the second move a good two links.
If there is a blue cube in either Evansville or Cincinnati, select the First
Build action and build a link from Evansville to Indianapolis to Cincinnati,
The first move goods instead increase your loco to 2, the second move the
good two links.
It is not necessary to transport one good two links on the first turn,
transporting two goods one link is, in some ways, just as good or better,
in that your overhead costs are lower the first turn. This is where inspecting
the map at the start is important in order to determine what goods would
be carried where on the first turn.
Beginners should avoid building track that directly competes with another
player, on the first turn, as the goods cubes tend to disappear that much
faster. Selecting the First Move action is a hedge against this phenomena.
So:
Study the map, specifically the placement of cubes on it and the goods display,
take two shares, don't waste your money on bidding for turn order, don't compete
directly with another player for a route between two cities or a specific good
in a common city, make two income and you have had a good first turn.
If you are in the black by turn 3, you are doing well.
And don't play on any of the expansion maps (Western US, Britain, Germany,
Ireland, Spain, Scandinavia, France or Italy) until you have done well on the
base game's North Central US map. They all have special rules, specific to
each different map, confusing to beginners. The game and the standard map
are demanding as it is, the expansions just add difficulty to an advanced
gamer's game.
Good luck!
John Bohrer
Winsome Games
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.fyi.net/~winsome
Creating, developing and licensing boardgames to the Germans and other
europeans (Volldampf, TransAmerica, Age of Steam), not from them.
Clay Blankenship
>>Just got round to playing AoS which I had for Christmas, but
>>the whole family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely
>>good comments for the game, we wondered what we were doing
>>wrong, as the finances were especially difficult - I went bankrupt
>>on the third go, while everyone else was issuing shares and refusing
>> to buy track by turn 5, just to stay solvent.
>
> AoS *is* very tight with finances especially in the first half of the
> game. Typically every player will issue at least 10 shares throughout the
> game,
> generally taking 2 per turn through the first 4 or 5 turns. Often players
> will have to take all 15 shares allowed during the game. Players will
> start making profits around turn 5 or so.
>
>
> Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
> Made with recycled electrons!
15 shares--is this really that common? Richard, I am sure you have played
many more times than I have, but the last game I played I think I issued
about 5 shares (and ended up winning). Based on my few plays, I'd say the
key is to keep your early cost per link low by building short links through
the towns on the east side of the map. If you can keep costs low in the
early game and make some deliveries of 2-4 links, your income will be
enough that you don't need to issue too many shares.
Clay
--
Clay Blankenship Change 'Z' to 's' to reply
Monterey, CA
Dave Eisen
Clay Blankenship <blan...@nrlmry.navy.mil> wrote:
>
>15 shares--is this really that common? Richard, I am sure you have played
>many more times than I have, but the last game I played I think I issued
>about 5 shares (and ended up winning). Based on my few plays, I'd say the
>key is to keep your early cost per link low by building short links through
>the towns on the east side of the map. If you can keep costs low in the
>early game and make some deliveries of 2-4 links, your income will be
>enough that you don't need to issue too many shares.
I've never issued fewer than 10, and have indeed issued 15
once or twice. Certainly if you can build short links through
the east side of the map and get your engine up to running
4 hops that is all very good. But that also generally requires
that you win an auction or two and that costs money.
Then again, I've never really tried to play a completely austere,
low money/low bid/low build strategy to minimize the number of
shares I have to issue. Seems to me that it would not work, but
if it does in your games maybe I should give it a shot.
--
Dave Eisen Sequoia Retail Systems: 650.237.9000
dke...@well.com
There's something in my library to offend everybody.
--- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
RRI1
>
>>>Just got round to playing AoS which I had for Christmas, but
>>>the whole family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely
>>>good comments for the game, we wondered what we were doing
>>>wrong, as the finances were especially difficult - I went bankrupt
>>>on the third go, while everyone else was issuing shares and refusing
>>> to buy track by turn 5, just to stay solvent.
>>
>
>> AoS *is* very tight with finances especially in the first half of the
>> game. Typically every player will issue at least 10 shares throughout the
>> game,
>> generally taking 2 per turn through the first 4 or 5 turns. Often players
>> will have to take all 15 shares allowed during the game. Players will
>> start making profits around turn 5 or so.
>>
>
>played many more times than I have, but the last game I played I think
>I issued about 5 shares (and ended up winning).
5 new during the course of the game in addition to the 2 everyone must
issue at the the start of the game? Or a total of 5?
It depends on how tight the map is but often one or even two players will
have to use their entire limit of shares. In a 3 player game, you will
likely need fewer shares. But in a 5 player game on a tight map, expect
the share counts to go up.
> Based on my few plays, I'd say the key is to keep your early cost
>per link low by building short links through the towns on the east
>side of the map. If you can keep costs low in the early game
>and make some deliveries of 2-4 links, your income will be
>enough that you don't need to issue too many shares.
Only if the other players allow you to do that. That part of the map
can be just so valuable. Other players will outbid you on the
first turn for the right to build in that area first or take First Build or
simply build to cut off all of the cheap routes you'll need to expand
from.
John Bohrer
> >RRI1 wrote:
> >
> >15 shares--is this really that common? Richard, I am sure you have
> >played many more times than I have, but the last game I played I think
> >I issued about 5 shares (and ended up winning).
>
> 5 new during the course of the game in addition to the 2 everyone must
> issue at the the start of the game? Or a total of 5?
>
> It depends on how tight the map is but often one or even two players will
> have to use their entire limit of shares. In a 3 player game, you will
> likely need fewer shares. But in a 5 player game on a tight map, expect
> the share counts to go up.
In over a hundred Age of Steam games, I have seen less than five games
where anyone issued all 15 shares, and of course none of those people won.
They were not all, or even most, 6 player games, that is immaterial.
I have seen AoS games won with just four shares issued, once in a six
player game. Those players were experienced and savvy. I suggest that,
if in England, you find and play a game with Martin Hair at a Con, in
America, Dave Metheny. Very sharp AoS players.
John Bohrer
Winsome Games
DrPhibes
> Ireland, Spain, Scandinavia, France or Italy) until you have done well on
the
> base game's North Central US map. They all have special rules, specific to
> each different map, confusing to beginners.
You sneaked THAT one in didn't you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So....do tell!!!!!!!
Geoff!!
John Bohrer
Whoops. Oh well, it was late, too much slivowitz, had to get some
cogent AoS hints out there for the struggling customer, I was tired,
it just slipped out.
John
Volstag
[snip]
>
> AoS *is* very tight with finances especially in the first half of the game.
> Typically every player will issue at least 10 shares throughout the game,
> generally taking 2 per turn through the first 4 or 5 turns. Often players
> will have to take all 15 shares allowed during the game. Players will start
> making profits around turn 5 or so.
[snip]
In our games, we generally issue between 3 - 6 shares apiece (4 being
typical). I've considered a "heavy issue" approach (for rapid
expansion), but you'd want to start making scads of income quick to
cover your outrageous expenditures.
-V
marty_mcmartin
plays Age of Steam, we tend to expand very agressively and often will
issue around 10-12 shares total, building three track almost every
round. This is pretty much what we have done in the dozen or so games
I have played. Whenever someone tries the "low shares" strategy they
tend to lose because they are still moving cargoes for 3 and 4, while
the other players are moving 5 and 6.
Last Sunday we played a four player game on the Ireland map and the
total shares issued was 15,14,13 & 12, the winner being the player who
issued 14. I do not remember the final score, but his final income
(before reduction) was in the high 30s and I think his total score was
in the 80s. The second place player (me) had issued 13 and had a
final score about 15 points behind the leader, while the 12 share
player was about 30-40 points off ther lead and the 15 share player
was even further off.
I'm having trouble seeing how someone can issue a relatively small
number of shares (4) and score high in that game. I've wondered how a
small shares stategy might work in the game, but I am always afraid to
try it because I am trying too hard to wipe that smug look off of
Eric's face through brute force competition.
martin
hawk...@hotmail.com (Volstag) wrote in message news:<b4d10b91.04010...@posting.google.com>...
Richard Hutnik
You MUST build up some small/profitable routes first, so you have
enough income so you don't go broke. Once you do this, you then can
think of expanding. Unless you do buy track, you won't create
successful routes in the game.
I found bidding a bit extra to go first, so I could lay track first
and get the route I wanted worked well.
- Richard Hutnik
Richard Hutnik
... SNIP ...
> >(Just to say we play loads of "german/euro-games" like Puerto Rico
> >, Ra, Taj Mahal, as well as train games like Railway Rivals and
> >Union Pacific, although we've never tried any of the 18xx games).
>
> Age of Steam is more austere than any of those. The only German
> game that is as austere as Age of Steam is La Citta.
I found Age of Steam a bit less harsh that La Citta, which ends up
being devestating to players, due to a luck element in the game.
Age of Steam IS a harsh game though. One has to be tight fisted and
cheap, but also be bold enough to expand.
- Richard Hutnik
Rick Jones
> "Peter T Davies" <pe...@davieshome99.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bsv1jq$eeg$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
>>Just got round to playing AoS which I had for Christmas, but the whole
>>family struggled with this one. In view of the extremely good comments for
>>the game, we wondered what we were doing wrong, as the finances were
>>especially difficult - I went bankrupt on the third go, while everyone else
>>was issuing shares and refusing to buy track by turn 5, just to stay
>>solvent.
>>
>>and a Happy New Year to everyone.
>
> enough income so you don't go broke. Once you do this, you then can
> think of expanding. Unless you do buy track, you won't create
> successful routes in the game.
>
> I found bidding a bit extra to go first, so I could lay track first
> and get the route I wanted worked well.
After all of the talk here about what a great game this is I broke
down and bought it and the first expansion this past Sunday. The rules
seem to be rather poorly written, about like the rules for Globopolis,
but I think I have the gist of the game.
One question is lurking in my mind. If I understand correctly, the
only way for the initial 52 goods on the Goods chart to be replenished
is by someone taking the Production action. This only puts 2 goods back
on the chart, while up to 6 may have been removed during the Goods
Growth phase.
Has anybody experienced games where the available goods on the map
began to dry up?
--
Rick Jones
Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me
http://www.geocities.com/seventysixinchesoffun/
"I really like the oldies - See Me, Feel Me, Touch Me, Marry Me, Kill
Me..."
-Al Bundy, "Married With Children"
Dave Eisen
Rick Jones <rtj...@extra.ev1.net> wrote:
> One question is lurking in my mind. If I understand correctly, the
>only way for the initial 52 goods on the Goods chart to be replenished
>is by someone taking the Production action. This only puts 2 goods back
>on the chart, while up to 6 may have been removed during the Goods
>Growth phase.
> Has anybody experienced games where the available goods on the map
>began to dry up?
Yes. This happens more often than not. One needs to take it into
account when choosing roles, laying track, etc.
Robert Rossney
news:10096de...@corp.supernews.com...
[snipped]
: One question is lurking in my mind. If I understand correctly, the
: only way for the initial 52 goods on the Goods chart to be replenished
: is by someone taking the Production action. This only puts 2 goods back
: on the chart, while up to 6 may have been removed during the Goods
: Growth phase.
: Has anybody experienced games where the available goods on the map
: began to dry up?
Goods drying up is an essential part of the game: it forces players to
upgrade their locomotives as the low-value low-link deliveries disappear and
are not replenished.
If goods got replenished more often, you could, if you were lucky, make a
profit without selling shares to upgrade your rail network and your
locomotive. The resulting game would put lucky players on the same footing
as players who built extensive rail networks, and I can't help but think
that would be less fun.
Bob Rossney
r...@well.com
Mark A. Biggar
> One question is lurking in my mind. If I understand correctly, the
> only way for the initial 52 goods on the Goods chart to be replenished
> is by someone taking the Production action. This only puts 2 goods back
> on the chart, while up to 6 may have been removed during the Goods
> Growth phase.
> Has anybody experienced games where the available goods on the map
> began to dry up?
>
Every game of AoS has that "feature".
John Bohrer
And hence the Production action.
Richard Hutnik
> In article <10096de...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Rick Jones <rtj...@extra.ev1.net> wrote:
>
> > One question is lurking in my mind. If I understand correctly, the
> >only way for the initial 52 goods on the Goods chart to be replenished
> >is by someone taking the Production action. This only puts 2 goods back
> >on the chart, while up to 6 may have been removed during the Goods
> >Growth phase.
> > Has anybody experienced games where the available goods on the map
> >began to dry up?
>
> Yes. This happens more often than not. One needs to take it into
> account when choosing roles, laying track, etc.
Considering you keep getting paid for the shipping, the good represent
more of "shipping opportunities" than actually goods that are ship.
So, it makes sense that the opportunities would become more scarce
over time.
- Richard Hutnik
Heinz Kiosk
news:37bc9e37.04011...@posting.google.com...
I think of them as contracts for a route.
Tom
Volstag
> I'm curious. What are the final scores of these games?
[snip]
> I'm having trouble seeing how someone can issue a relatively small
> number of shares (4) and score high in that game.
[snip]
In our last game, the winner scored 91 points. He issued a total of 4
shares during the game.
-V
Rick Jones
OK, one more question. Since you roll for turn order during the
initial setup, is the turn order auction still performed on the first turn?
--
Rick Jones
Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me
"I'm never voting again. Like marriage, no matter who you choose, it
turns out bad."
Dave Eisen
Rick Jones <rtj...@extra.ev1.net> wrote:
>
> OK, one more question. Since you roll for turn order during the
>initial setup, is the turn order auction still performed on the first turn?
Yes. The initial turn order is used only to sequence in which
order people issue their first round of shares and to set up
the order of the first turn order auction.
RRI1
I suspect most of these players winning with low share counts are:
- playing a three player game.
- playing on a relatively easy map.
- are playing with players who don't play the game cutthroat style.
(maybe with newbies.)
Probably all three.
Christopher Dearlove
<rr...@aol.com> writes
>I suspect most of these players winning with low share counts are:
>- playing a three player game.
>- playing on a relatively easy map.
>- are playing with players who don't play the game cutthroat style.
>(maybe with newbies.)
John Bohrer's posting in this thread contradicts you. (OK, you said
"most",
so you could argue the point.)
My limited experience would suggest as you get better you can get more
efficient and issue fewer shares for the same effect. I've not seen a
game
as low as four shares (I presume that's excluding the starting two) but
closer to that than all the shares for the winners (and even the losers
about half way).
As for the "relatively easy map" I presume most people are playing with
the basic game map. I have it on good authority Ireland is a different
kettle of fish. (I own it but haven't played it.) If on the other hand
you
means a favourable (for cheap play) block distribution then no-one is
going to get that consistently.
--
Christopher Dearlove
John Bohrer
Sharp, experienced players there.
Heinz Kiosk
news:4bde1035.04011...@posting.google.com...
Could not Groupthink also play a part? If the group values early position
highly then more shares are issued to cover the position auction. If the
group doesn't value early position then fewer shares are issued as only
build costs are required. Say the conservative bidder is against 3-4
aggressive bidders who pick correct actions and use them to their best
advantage (including screwing the underbidder). He's going to keep going
near last with his minimal issue strategy and I'm struggling to see him
winning doing that, particularly against players who will often use a
portion of their actions to screw the guy who isn't paying for position.
Tom
John Bohrer
> John Bohrer's posting in this thread contradicts you. (OK, you said
> "most",
> so you could argue the point.)
OK, let me backtrack. There is no 'right' way to play Age of Steam.
My experience and analysis offered to the original poster are suggestions
for beginners. Perhaps Mr Irving has discovered something that has both
eluded my experience and escaped my analysis. I expect that we will see
how efficatious his methods are at DonCon (WBC, AvalonCon) where AoS
has been selected as one of the offered tournaments and which Mr. Irving
attends. The GM tells me, though, that Mr. Irving's Random Maps will not
be used, only the official Winsome/Warfrog boards.
John Bohrer
marty_mcmartin
> highly then more shares are issued to cover the position auction. If the
> group doesn't value early position then fewer shares are issued as only
> build costs are required. Say the conservative bidder is against 3-4
> aggressive bidders who pick correct actions and use them to their best
> advantage (including screwing the underbidder). He's going to keep going
> near last with his minimal issue strategy and I'm struggling to see him
> winning doing that, particularly against players who will often use a
> portion of their actions to screw the guy who isn't paying for position.
I was wondering if group think may be the issue. I know that our
group has a tendency to bid high in the early rounds. An opening bid
of four or five is typical becuase people want to get a good choice at
starting locations and roles. If people don't bid high in the
auction, then I can easily see how shares would be low, if people bid
high on the auction, then people need to issue extra shares just to
stop from going last all the time.
Windopaene
> You were taking your income every turn weren't you? But I agree with the other
> comments here in that you MUST get your link count up to start pulling in the
> two and three link runs as early as you can. This will start to give you enough
> income to stay solvent. And keep your bids very low early. There is usually not
> all that much interesting in the early going to warrant high bids, (except
> perhaps Urbanization). It's only when multiple players have links into the same
> cities that move first has much effect, build first will only hurt you if
> someone cuts you off, and then you can pay a few bucks more for a complex tile,
> so that's not too crucial. Production is pretty much always lame. Engineer is
> rarely worth fighting over, and locomotive is nice, but rarely worth a large
> bid.
Given that I recently played Aos, (5 player), AND found myself caught in the death
spiral, AND played so blindingly poorly I shudder at the memory, please ignore any
and all comments I have made regarding "tips" for playing Age of Steam.
Thank you
But a more general question: What importance do you place on having your rails
connected into one big network? The first time I played, we thought that you HAD to
do this. I learned it was not the case, but in the aforementioned game, one player
was able to create a solid 5 link network for all of the colors, while no one ellse
was able to do so. He won by a lot of points. Now I think in retrospect, the other
players should have been working more actively to prevent him from getting this,
but as mostly newbie players, they were paying far more attention to their own
routes than what the eventual winner was doing. But if not just one player has a
single track network, is that person always going to do better than a person with a
solid network with some gaps in coverage, but extentions on the far side of such
gaps?
Heinz Kiosk
"Windopaene" <Windo...@noYAHspicedhaminacanOO.COM> wrote in message
news:4010C932...@noYAHspicedhaminacanOO.COM...
> Windopaene wrote:
>
> > .....you MUST get your link count up to start pulling in the
> > two and three link runs as early as you can. This will start to give you
enough
> > income to stay solvent. And keep your bids very low early. There is
usually not
> > all that much interesting in the early going to warrant high bids,
(except
Getting control of urbanisation in early turns can be fabulously rewarding,
for the very reason that it can be a quick and track-cheap route to getting
the 2-3 link runs going. So bidding wars develop. In my early games I was
slaughtered by opponents who were prepared to bid bigger than me early.
Clearly if less than 2 people in the game think like this early bids will be
much lower. Probably to the immense benefit of whoever wins the early
auctions, since they won't have been made to pay correctly for their
opportunity differential.
Tom