Airlines which allow GPS use. Two new ones are official
Joe Mehaffey
information about NWA and KLM.
Joe Mehaffey
Talk to NWA - Online Support wrote:
>
> Dear Joe Mehaffey,
>
> The next time you are questioned have the Flight attendant check their
> Flight operations book under rule 120.8.5 for Portable electronic
> devices which can only be operated above 10,000 feet. This information
> also was verified by Flight safety.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Daniel J. Tarro
> Manager, Customer Relations
> Northwest/KLM Airlines
>
gfahren
Major kudos for identifying the flight ops rule.
George
Jack Yeazel
Joe Mehaffey wrote:
> >
> > Dear Joe Mehaffey,
> >
> > The next time you are questioned have the Flight attendant check their
> > Flight operations book under rule 120.8.5 for Portable electronic
> > devices which can only be operated above 10,000 feet. This information
> > also was verified by Flight safety.
I can't tell from this post whether NWA approves or disapproves GPS use above
10,000 feet...???
--
Jack
Get general GPS information at http://joe.mehaffey.com/
Joe Mehaffey
Joe
Jack Yeazel wrote:
> I can't tell from this post whether NWA approves or disapproves GPS use above
> 10,000 feet...???
>
> --
> Jack
>
> Get general GPS information at http://joe.mehaffey.com/
--
Got a Question about GPS technology? Looking for a GPS FAQ site?
See: http://joe.mehaffey.com
Jack Yeazel
Joe Mehaffey wrote:
>
> See the Subject heading Jack. :)
OK, but it would be interesting to see what the "Flight operations book under
rule 120.8.5 for Portable electronic devices which can only be operated above
10,000 feet" actually said...
JY
Jeff Orum
"Joe Mehaffey" <j...@mehaffey.com> wrote in message
news:3CC4A852...@mehaffey.com...
Jack Yeazel
Jeff Orum wrote:
>
> You two do know each other, right? :-)
Yes -that is at one time I THOUGHT I did! You'd be surprised at the
negotiations that go on behind the scenes before we publish a review... Which
is all well and good; no one person can discover all the quirks and get the
whole thing correct as possible... Most of the time we give the Manufacturer a
chance to look over a review to check for errors... "We may get our facts mixed
up from time to time, but our opinions are ALWAYS correct!"
Offri
http://www.gpsinformation.net/airgps/gpsrfi.htm
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/callback_issues/PDF_Files/cb_237.pdf
"Joe Mehaffey" <j...@mehaffey.com> wrote in message
news:3CC4A852...@mehaffey.com...
barbara walton
With respect,
Wyatt W.
"Jack Yeazel" <Ja...@FinalApproach.net> wrote in message
news:3CC5834F...@FinalApproach.net...
Joe Mehaffey
Joe Mehaffey
ed
Thank you for providing me with clarification.
I have confirmed with our inflight department that gps navigational
systems can be utilized above 10,000 feet on our aircraft. However,
these items must be stowed when announcements are made that all
electronic devices must be shut off.
Again, thank you for writing. If you have any further questions, please
do not hesitate to ask.
Sincerely,
Amy Carrell
Supervisor, Customer Relations
Northwest/KLM Airlines
Bill Jackson
location/speed? remember the Aluminium shell of a plane totally shuts out
the signel, and the metallized coaring on the windows also reduce it, so you
may find them harder to use than you think.
As for operating them below 10,000 feet , they put out very little in the
way of signals, but I am sure the airlines/FAA want to close all possible
interference doors.
"ed" <glic...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:9ab30c0e.02042...@posting.google.com...
Peter Rathmann
>
> Ed, Can you see enough satellites, even at a window to get a
> location/speed? remember the Aluminium shell of a plane totally shuts out
> the signel, and the metallized coaring on the windows also reduce it, so you
> may find them harder to use than you think.
I've used my GPS 12 and eMap on numerous flights and have never had a
problem getting a 3D satellite lock within a minute or two by holding
the unit up to the window. Once lock is achieved the unit can
frequently be placed on the edge of the seat tray and still track. Most
recent was a round trip from SF to Philly last week. Speed was up to 645
mph outbound but mainly under 500 on the return due to wind effects. I
haven't encountered any metallic window coatings in the passenger cabin
windows but they are used in many of the cockpit windows.
> As for operating them below 10,000 feet , they put out very little in the
> way of signals, but I am sure the airlines/FAA want to close all possible
> interference doors.
Agreed. No point in taking any chances with passenger electronic
equipment during this critical phase of the flight where the crew may
need to react quickly to any instrument indication.
Gym Bob
of the take off and landing speeds/altitudes....very interesting datum.
However when I got to Mexico and took a taxi to my hotel the taxi must have
had metal in the windows and I couldn't get a lock at all until out of the
taxi...LOL
"Peter Rathmann" <prat...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3CCC7F31...@attbi.com...
Bill Jackson
Thanks for the information.
I had wondered how well they would work in that area.
I suspect mettalization is used on the cockpit windows to keep RF out.
No reason to do it on the passenger windows.
Gym Bob
because of RFI but they want everything fastenned down for flying objects
problems.
"Bill Jackson" <aur...@feedthecatsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mknz8.56146$kq1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Gym Bob
use GPSes but every last one has a personal one in their pocket which they
use because of convenience wihile flying.
"Bill Jackson" <aur...@feedthecatsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mknz8.56146$kq1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
John Morriss
> I had the same experience with the GPS/windows going to Mexico. I got traces
> of the take off and landing speeds/altitudes....very interesting datum.
> However when I got to Mexico and took a taxi to my hotel the taxi must have
> had metal in the windows and I couldn't get a lock at all until out of the
> taxi...LOL
>
Believe me... You don't WANT to know your speed in a Mexican taxi...:)
Robert Moore
> No reason to do it on the passenger windows.
Bill, the cockpit windows are made-up from several layers of glass
and plastic serving different purposes. The thick, main layer is
plastic to keep the window from shattering if struck by a bird or
large hail. In order to accomplish this the plastic must be heated
to keep it flexable. There is, between these layers, deposited a
very thin, transparent layer of conductive gold that serves as part
of the window heat system. Those windows are VERY expensive. Most
jetliners are speed restricted if the window heat system malfunctions.
Bob Moore
ATP B-707, B-727
PanAm (retired)
Jerry
hide it and one of the flight attendants even smiled. It was especially cool
when flying over a unknown body of water and looking at the GPS to see what
lake or river it is. Even cooler was watching the breadcrumbs make nice
designs as we circled in a holding pattern. The coolest was listening to
tower communications telling our pilot to climb to 37,000 feet. My GPS read
37,001. I had to switch my Navigation units to knots instead of mph and the
speeds also matched the tower instructions. I used a Magellan Meridian Gold
and found that I did not even have to hold it against the window for it to
work. It worked fine 90% of the time on my tray table, standing up, leaning
against the back of the seat that was in front of me.
"Bill Jackson" <aur...@feedthecatsympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mknz8.56146$kq1.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Hans-Georg Michna
>The coolest was listening to
>tower communications telling our pilot to climb to 37,000 feet. My GPS read
>37,001.
Jerry,
this, however, was pure concidence. You must have had an
atmospheric pressure of 1013.2 hPa at sea level, the perfect
average.
Background: Above a certain height, all aircraft are required to
set their altimeters to an atmospheric pressure of 1013.2 hPa
(hectopascal), so they all fly at proper altitudes (flight
levels) relative to each other, regardless of their true
altitude.
The GPS, however, shows true altitude above sea level, which is
usually something different.
Hans-Georg
--
No mail, please.
Jerry
"Hans-Georg Michna" <hans-georgN...@michna.com> wrote in message
news:7u25dus2m2dg5pepr...@4ax.com...
My GPS was able to display the altitude each time the tower notified the
pilot to do so. I watched my GPS track the altitude and speed correctly from
takeoff to landing, each way between BOS and ORD. My GPS does not measure
atmospheric pressure so I'm not sure what you are getting at. When the tower
tells the pilot to climb to 37,000 feet and maintain that altitude, the
tower means 37,000 feet above sea level, not 37,000 feet above another
airplane or above the tower. If the plane was the only one flying that day,
then with your method there would be no reference point to measure against.
Perhaps the pilot just measures the altitude using his own GPS.
Dale DePriest
Jerry wrote:
Not true
at 37,000 feet all pilots use a standardize setting on their barometric
altimeter and this standard setting is used to compute the 37,000 feet.
This may or may not be exactly the correct altitude but since all Pilots
use the same method spacing is assured. No pilot uses a gps to perform
this task.
Dale
>
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/Palm
Robert Moore
> When the tower tells the pilot to climb to 37,000 feet and
> maintain that altitude, the tower means 37,000 feet above sea level,
> not 37,000 feet above another airplane or above the tower.
Sorry...you've got it all wrong. When flying above 18,000' here in
the USofA and some different altitude in other countries (usually
lower), ATC (not the Tower, it controlls only takeoffs and landings)
will clear an aircraft to a FLIGHT LEVEL, not an altitude. The
clearance would be "Climb to and maintain Flight Level 370". Flight
Levels are determined by setting the aircraft altimeter to a setting
of 29.92" or 1013.2mb rather than the actual barometric pressure.
Now....if the actual barometric pressure just happens to be the ICAO
standard of 29.92" at sea level and the standard atmosphere exists
between sea level and the flight level, the altitude above sea level
will equal the flight level, but this seldom if ever exists.
So....in order to maintain safe separation from other aircraft while
cruising, as each plane climbs up through the TRANSITION ALTITUDE, all
altimeters are set to 29.92. This may cause the altimeter to read a
Flight Level as much as 1,000' different that the actual altitude.
Bob Moore
Airline Transport Pilot B-707, B-727
PanAm (retired)
Noone
wrote:
>> My GPS was able to display the altitude each time the tower notified the
>> pilot to do so. I watched my GPS track the altitude and speed correctly from
>> takeoff to landing, each way between BOS and ORD. My GPS does not measure
>> atmospheric pressure so I'm not sure what you are getting at. When the tower
>> tells the pilot to climb to 37,000 feet and maintain that altitude, the
>> tower means 37,000 feet above sea level, not 37,000 feet above another
>> airplane or above the tower. If the plane was the only one flying that day,
>> then with your method there would be no reference point to measure against.
>> Perhaps the pilot just measures the altitude using his own GPS.
>>
>
>Not true
>
>at 37,000 feet all pilots use a standardize setting on their barometric
>altimeter and this standard setting is used to compute the 37,000 feet.
>This may or may not be exactly the correct altitude but since all Pilots
>use the same method spacing is assured. No pilot uses a gps to perform
>this task.
But the cockpit instruments are corrected to sea level.
Robert Moore
> But the cockpit instruments are corrected to sea level.
Not above the Transition Level (18,000' in the US). Above
that, the altimeters are set RELATIVE to a 29.92" pressure
level that is constantly moving up and down as High and Low
pressure systems move across the country (or ocean).
Bob Moore
Airline Transport Pilot B-707, B-727
PanAmerican World Airways (retired)
Noone
<rmoo...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>m...@home.com (Noone) wrote
>> But the cockpit instruments are corrected to sea level.
>
>Not above the Transition Level (18,000' in the US). Above
>that, the altimeters are set RELATIVE to a 29.92" pressure
>level that is constantly moving up and down as High and Low
>pressure systems move across the country (or ocean).
Below 18,000' they are.
Gordon
<Dal...@cwnet.com> writes
>
>Jerry wrote:
>
>
>> My GPS was able to display the altitude each time the tower notified the
>> pilot to do so. I watched my GPS track the altitude and speed correctly from
>> takeoff to landing, each way between BOS and ORD. My GPS does not measure
>> atmospheric pressure so I'm not sure what you are getting at. When the tower
>> tells the pilot to climb to 37,000 feet and maintain that altitude, the
>> tower means 37,000 feet above sea level, not 37,000 feet above another
>> airplane or above the tower. If the plane was the only one flying that day,
>> then with your method there would be no reference point to measure against.
>> Perhaps the pilot just measures the altitude using his own GPS.
>>
>
>Not true
>
>at 37,000 feet all pilots use a standardize setting on their barometric
>altimeter and this standard setting is used to compute the 37,000 feet.
>This may or may not be exactly the correct altitude but since all Pilots
>use the same method spacing is assured. No pilot uses a gps to perform
>this task.
>
>Dale
>
frequently a few hundred feet off a normal FL, until I realised that the
aircraft altimeter setting governed it's height even though it might fly
through areas of varying pressure. That's the only way they can
ensure correct vertical separation!
--
Gordon
Alan White
>
>But the cockpit instruments are corrected to sea level.
Neither the altimeter nor the air speed indicator are corrected to sea
level.
--
Alan White
in England's Lake District.
http://www.alan.lesley.ukgateway.net
Gordon
<alan....@ukgateway.net> writes
>On Fri, 03 May 2002 16:59:04 GMT, m...@home.com (Noone) wrote:
>
>>
>>But the cockpit instruments are corrected to sea level.
>
>Neither the altimeter nor the air speed indicator are corrected to sea
>level.
>
of twiddles of the setting.....
I prescribe a long spell on a decent Flight Sim program. ;-)
--
Gordon
Paul Cardoza
news:aasr2o$r1a$1...@suaar1ab.prod.compuserve.com:
> I used mine as a passenger on a trip this week (United). I didn't try
> to hide it and one of the flight attendants even smiled. It was
>>
>
>
Used mine on USAir in February. Boston to Miami and back. No problems
at all.
Jerry
Regardless, I was happy to follow along the radio communications and watch
the altitude of the GPS. If I was just lucky, so be it. It sure made me feel
good about my GPS though :)
Gordon
<Je...@127.0.0.1> writes
a commercial airliner?
Did you have permission? Did you get it checked out for spurious
radiation?
<Boggle>
--
Gordon
Alan White
wrote:
>...
>I prescribe a long spell on a decent Flight Sim program. ;-)
Spend too long doing that already!
Gordon
<alan....@ukgateway.net> writes
>On Fri, 3 May 2002 20:22:45 +0100, Gordon <Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>...
>>I prescribe a long spell on a decent Flight Sim program. ;-)
>
>Spend too long doing that already!
>
--
Gordon
Noone
wrote:
If you are refering to the radio comm, then you might like to know
that some airlines acutualy pipe all the coversations on to one of the
"radio" stattions you can listen to with the headphones. I know that
when I flew United, thats what they did.
Gordon
<m...@home.com> writes
> you might like to know
>that some airlines acutualy pipe all the coversations on to one of the
>"radio" stattions you can listen to with the headphones. I know that
>when I flew United, thats what they did.
That explains it! One good reason to fly United, I suppose.
I am located within RT range of Manchester Airport, so monitoring is
easy, and I can usually follow outgoing flights for about 30 minutes,
using a 4 element quad antenna.
--
Gordon
Jerry
"Gordon" <Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0au1tTAC...@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
You over-complicate things. I just hook up a pair of headphones to my
armrest to hear this. Imagine!
Gym Bob
before flying? Have you no feelings for fellow flyers?
"Gordon" <Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0au1tTAC...@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
Gordon
<no...@spam.com> writes
>What about infectious viruses? Did you maintain quarentine for a few weeks
>before flying? Have you no feelings for fellow flyers?
>
--
Gordon