Grandfather & Grandson (a parable)
Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(a parable for the 21st century)
(c) 2003 by Ezekiel Grandson Krahlin
* Blessed by the Great Spirit who gives me this tale, and many more.
*
[ This little play is to be performed in the great tradition of George
Burns and Gracie Allen...only the partners are two gay men: Randolph
Taylor (my soulmate) and myself. In fact, this is the first among a
tremendous series of sketches to be done in Burns-and-Allen style. ]
Three characters:
Grandfather (Randolph)
Grandson (me)
Jack (any tall actor will do)
Randolph is totally covered by a sacred Navajo blanket that reaches
all the way to the floor; and a large painted longhorn skull for his
head. The skull designs are authentic Haidu and Kwakiutl totems.
(Grandfather holds the skull with his hands, and moves it to the
rhythm of his words. You never see the actual person, except perhaps
the hands for brief moments... which themselves should be darkly
gloved.) He walks onstage; a single spotlight illuminates his
presence. The only prop on stage is a picnic bench about 15 feet
behind him and slightly to his right (which would be somewhat stage
left). He faces the audience.
Grandfather: "Today my grandson arrives for the Big Powwow. I hear he
has grown a lot, since we last visited 23 moons ago. How old is he
now? Let's see. Hmmm...(pauses in deliberation, then gestures). Ah
yes, fourteen revolutions! Look, here he comes!"
Grandson enters from stage right on a skateboard, dressed just like
Grandfather, only smaller; including the skull. This skull is all
"punked out" with an outrageous pink Mohawk, glo-paint, and many
piercings. His blanket is also non-traditional, that is: decorated
with super heroes like Xena, Spiderman, Dynamic Duo, Lone Ranger &
Tonto, etc..
Grandson: "Hey, Grandfather, whassup?" (He high-fives by knocking his
skull against Grandfather's, causing a loud "thock" to echo resonantly
throughout the entire theater.)
Grandfather (looks down with great affection at his pint-size protege,
and eyes him carefully from top to bottom and back up again):
"Grandson, I do not think your father intends you to go in that
direction."
Grandson (recoils a bit): "Oh no Grandfather, don't get me started,
especially when we have just come together after so long!" (Pauses,
and shrugs.) "It's okay with Mom, 'cause she wants me to enjoy what
remains of my fleeting childhood. Besides, breaking with tradition is
not always a bad thing. Never forget the Ghost Dance!"
Grandfather (nodding in acquiescent agreement): "[sigh] I suppose each
generation must shock the elders one way or another, as a rite of
passage. I only wish the direction you are now taking will go
somewhere that makes you into a brave warrior."
Grandson (shrugging shoulders expansively): "Aww c'mon Grandfather.
I'm already there, and have been for a long, long time; many
revolutions in fact; so many that the Infinite-Fingered One can no
longer keep count. You forget that my spirit (as opposed to my body)
is far older than yours; so in the measure of Absolute Truth, I am
Great-Grandfather to your Grandson."
Grandfather (shaking head in slight disagreement): "No, I haven't
forgotten, Little Pony. I was only thinking that you are such a brave
spirit, you deserve to go in a direction that reflects more nobility
and less absurdity."
Grandson: "I am not here to argue with you, oh Silver Sage Of My Soul.
But I am suggesting that perhaps you undervalue child's play in
lightening a warrior's heart between battles."
Grandfather (gesturing astonished approval): "Oh, Little Grandson.
Your wisdom never fails to pierce my heart like Hiawatha's Own Arrow."
(Lowers his tall frame to embrace Grandson, raising him off the
floor.)
As they hug, Jack (of Jack-in-the-Box fame) comes onstage with a large
delivery bag of fast food in hand. Of course, he's wearing his
trademark ping-pong smiley head...only this time with an eagle feather
held firm by a plain, dirty headband. The feather likewise is dirty,
and bent.
Jack: "Hey, did you guys order a Sourdough Chicken Fajita, three Paco
Tacos, a Chichimonga Supreme and two large cups of Joseph?"
Grandfather: "Yes, thank you." (He politely receives the food, hands
it to Grandson, then pulls out a wallet and pays Jack with some
wrinkled old bills. Jack takes the money, signals goodbye, and
departs.)
Grandson: "Grandfather, the powwow will soon start." (He points to the
bench behind them, slightly stage left.) "Let's sit down to enjoy our
meal and togetherness."
Grandfather (who places a loving arm around Grandson as they approach
the bench): "That is good, Pony. For you HAVE taken my advice." They
both sit down.
Grandson (confused, as he looks up at Grandfather): "What advice is
that, My Guardian Angel?"
Grandfather: "You took a different direction after all. This bench was
east of where we stood, and you were about to continue north, where
only people full of themselves go."
Grandson (who was sipping coffee, spits out in laughter): "Those are
the latrines, My Old Friend."
And they laugh and touch as the powwow begins; spotlight fading into
black.
---finis
ADDENDUM: Would you like the same sort of product placement for your
business, as Jack-in-the-Box? I will advertise your product or service
somewhere in my story, newsgroup article or mailing list; where it is
guaranteed to attract every reader's attention, or your money back.
(The soul part, I keep.) Please note an extra surcharge for product
placement in my articles to Gaynet. You know whom to contact, if
interested.
---
Lavender-Velvet Revolution
www.gay-bible.org
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
>(a parable for the 21st century)
It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
Hope this helps. ;-7
--
| ^ /o\
"Good steel wins good steel; is the Second of testings | |/\v/---
Who would win My true daughter is a keeper of Troths." | b ^ | |
-- The Song of Finder | | / \ V
Chief Thracian
message news:<b6uh5e$b86$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com>
wrote:
> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>
> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>
> Hope this helps. ;-7
Why, yo' sho' do be a GREAT he'p, yes m'am! Why, it show how
IGNORANT ye be...and this, coming out of a non-traditional
spiritual group. You conveniently IGNORE the myriad accounts
of this or that god or goddess giving birth to a new being
(including humans and human-type gods), by their own
particular magic, with NARY ONE SMIDGEON of assistance by
ANYONE of the opposite gender.
The Catholic's concept of THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION was lifted
right up out of Classic Greek Folklore and Myth!
I know that ALL ancient religions, cultures, traditions,
cabals and secret organizations have a brilliant thread of
queer achievements scattered throughout their histories,
mythologies and religions, on and off again in waves. And
whenever the wave was "on", a tremendous welling-up of
positives creative forces are ALWAYS triggered by queer
rebellion against the hetero-dogma masses.
But when the wave is "off", most evidence of homosexual
contributions, heroism, suffering, etc. are either burned up,
swept up, or buried/hidden/secreted in some other fashion as
yet unknown. This causes a natural resistance by those "gay
friendly" hetero pagans to trivialize any gay contributions,
by at best including one or two pro-queer tales in your coven.
And it is thus all too easy to feign genuine ignorance over
any more queer pagan history because, gee, where's the book?
Well, if you don't go out of your way to get such info--as we
gays must do all the time--and you don't go out of your way to
include any gay ACTIVIST friends...then you "liberal" heteros
surely do remain sublimely blithe over sexual minority issues,
no matter how serious and urgent. Somehow, you breeder thugs
will come up with a way to conveiently, guiltlessly turn your
face the other way, when Dubya's street thugs drags us queers
from our homes, offices, bars and clubs, and rounds us up for
the death camps in Nevada's sere desert.
So I leave it to our Proud Queer Pagan Family to remove the
veils that still cling to Our Secret History...which soon
shall be no secret forever more! How steeped in ignorance have
our hetero folk become...ruling ARROGANCE over another, merely
because one can BREED WITH NO THOUGHT OF THE CONSEQUENCES, and
the other can not.
Yes, YOU, a PAGAN, would follow in the very footsteps of
CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISTS when it comes to homosexuals,
WOULDN'T YA? Yeah, yeah, "clean enviroment", "children's
rights", "animal rights", "veganism", "no nukes"...all good
and worthy ideals, I do agree. But it all comes with the
UNSPOKEN assertion that we ALL want these things, but for one:
NO FAGGOTS IN OUR NEW WORLD! Else, why don't we hear you
non-Christian pagans crying out against this anti-queer
holocaust taking off? I myself am pagan, and ASHAMED at all
the homophobic jism being spewed here, in alternative, "pagan"
or "shaman" groups. What gays continue to put faith in either
TRADITIONAL or ALTERNATIVE belief systems, we really have no
friends in the straight world...way to few to be worth
consideration.
Most of you pagans are in DENIAL of any kind of homophobia
going on in pagan/shaman groups! And it's a SMUG denial at
that...as if this weren't an INTENTIONAL game of deceit you
play on my gay brothers, because AND ONLY BECAUSE the Beast
defends you from any sort of retribution. Whereas in fact,
most of your mainstream Pagan groups are INTIMATELY BOUND with
Xian Fundies, in their war to persecute, terrorize, maim and
murder any and all QueerFolk.
But your time is running out, your last cards are about to be
played.
There are VERY FEW good Pagans, and VERY FEW good Christians
as well. Same for the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Daoists,
Native Amerikans, and yes, even Atheists. A quick way to
select what few may remain as real friends you can truly
trust:
If they are the least bit hesitant of supporting gay rights on
any level of common sense and decency (including, and maybe
even especially, "marriage"): WATCH OUT, THEY'RE BAD MOJO!!!
P.S.: And just how many BILLIONS OF YEARS has the Universe
existed, before it tossed heterosexuality into the mix? Which
sexual inclination, I might add, is very rapidly due to go the
same route as the dinosaur, the dodo bird, and dubya. We can
(and will) get along without you het'ro'set-choolz...as the
Divine Mind will ALWAYS offer us GoodQueerFolk life, love,
liberty and happiness, with or without the unseemly existence
of breeders.
---
Pennsylvania Dutch Gay Jesus says:
"Throw the hetero over the fence some hay."
www.gay-bible.org
Chief Thracian
> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>
> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>
> Hope this helps. ;-7
In addition, how ESPECIALLY ARROGANT you are, by not simply enjoying
this tale of a get-together between two males...in this case,
grandfather and grandson?
Oh, are you really so bothered that this particular story did not
contain at least the IMPLICATION of this or that vagina shoved into
readers' minds? Is it really so righteous of you--oh god-favored
heterosexual--to always spring a VAGINA into every dialogue that seems
to be without some sort of c*nt-juice smell marking its territory?
Ah, yes, ye Pagan Hag; even your farts betray you. You clothing may be
Celtic, but your soul remains just what it's always been: a puppet for
the Religious Reich. You are an INFILTRATOR of our Pagan world...as
are a considerable number of participants herein. Well, I just blew
the whistle on you all! You're a bunch of PHONY KKKRISTIANS SABOTAGING
PAGAN & SHAMAN NEWSGROUPS, USING ANTI-GAY ATTITUDES TO DESTROY OUR
SMALL CLOSELY KNIT BUT POOR, NETWORKS.
(Either that, or you really ARE a self-proclaimed pagan who harbors
the worst anti-gay attitudes comparable only to Muslims and Christian
fanatics. And for that, you are STILL the enemy of Pagan Truth.)
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in
>message news:<b6uh5e$b86$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com>
>wrote:
>> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
>> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>>
>> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>>
>> Hope this helps. ;-7
>
>Why, yo' sho' do be a GREAT he'p, yes m'am! Why, it show how
>IGNORANT ye be...and this, coming out of a non-traditional
>spiritual group.
Ignorant, no. Amused, yes.
You wasted a lot of time ranting. You really should lighten up.
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
>> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>>
>> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>>
>> Hope this helps. ;-7
>
>In addition, how ESPECIALLY ARROGANT you are, by not simply enjoying
>this tale of a get-together between two males...in this case,
>grandfather and grandson?
Oh, goodie. More ranting. Let's see. If I don't enjoy your tale, it
means *I* am arrogant?
I must say, the rants are more entertaining.
allan
Allan
www.allanhahn.uwnet.nl
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ........................................T.Roosevelt
Lucida
With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>In article <d46ddbb9.03040...@posting.google.com>,
>Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<b6uh5e$b86$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>>> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>>> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>>> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
>>> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>>>
>>> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps. ;-7
>>
>>In addition, how ESPECIALLY ARROGANT you are, by not simply enjoying
>>this tale of a get-together between two males...in this case,
>>grandfather and grandson?
>
>Oh, goodie. More ranting. Let's see. If I don't enjoy your tale, it
>means *I* am arrogant?
>
And Celtic, lol, as *all* pagans are Celtic, don't you know? Of
course, I'm not sure where that leaves his Native American tale, as it
doesn't seem very Celtic to me...
>I must say, the rants are more entertaining.
>
Yes, I just love hearing about what *true* pagans are, don't you? And
I wonder what my friend, who is a lesbian, will think when I tell her
that vaginas are anti-gay? I hope she will see the light and repent
immediately! (I am still ROTFLMAO at that one....)
Actually, I do want to say that most of the gay men I know are not
mysoginistic, simply not interested. It is sad that some people will
see this ranting nonsense and think that gay men hate women, which is
far from the truth.
Sex is sex. If I'm not sleeping with you, then I don't give a damn
about who you're sleeping with. Straight is not better than gay, gay
is not better than straight. It's just like ice cream- I might prefer
vanilla to strawberry, you might prefer chocolate to butter pecan- but
face it, it's all good!
Blessings,
Lucida
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Dang. Does this mean that if one of the priestesses who married my
husband and I was a lesbian, our marriage doesn't count? Should we
have not invited her to the wedding? :D :D :D
>Actually, I do want to say that most of the gay men I know are not
>mysoginistic, simply not interested. It is sad that some people will
>see this ranting nonsense and think that gay men hate women, which is
>far from the truth.
>Sex is sex. If I'm not sleeping with you, then I don't give a damn
>about who you're sleeping with. Straight is not better than gay, gay
>is not better than straight. It's just like ice cream- I might prefer
>vanilla to strawberry, you might prefer chocolate to butter pecan- but
>face it, it's all good!
You said it sistah! This guy is a silly troll.
Chief Thracian
> And Celtic, lol, as *all* pagans are Celtic, don't you know?
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Look up the word "pagan" in any dictionary, and
you'll stand corrected. Here is a list of definitions from my
electronic Random House Dictionary:
pa·gan (pAY_guhn) n.
1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic
religion,
as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim; heathen.
3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.
adj.
4. of or pertaining to pagans or their religion.
5. irreligious or hedonistic.
Worshipping the deities of the British Isles, such as "Celtic", marks
you as a pagan. But Celtic beliefs are not the ONLY pagan beliefs...as
they include all other non-Judeo-Muslim-Christian beliefs, too.
> I'm not sure where that leaves his Native American tale, as it
> doesn't seem very Celtic to me...
Now you know. It doesn't have to be Celtic to be pagan. This is what
irritates me about superficial Celtophiles: they tend to usurp the
entire realm of paganism, claiming it as their own.
I just posted a beautiful tale where the two characters are
men...Grandfather & Grandson. So I can only conclude that
"reds...@liii.com" posted a hateful remark.
> Sex is sex. If I'm not sleeping with you, then I don't give a damn
> about who you're sleeping with. Straight is not better than gay, gay
> is not better than straight.
That may be YOUR attitude, but not that of reds...@liii.com, whose
initial reply to me was:
> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
And you know that...yet you have not bothered to even lift a finger of
argument against her arrogant remark. So I conclude that you ALSO
harbor homophobia...though cleverly disguise yourself as soooo
tolerant. If you really are so accepting, then you would NOT have
allowed "reds...@liii.com" to get away with her slur.
> It's just like ice cream- I might prefer
> vanilla to strawberry, you might prefer chocolate to butter pecan- but
> face it, it's all good!
Yeah, well tell that to "reds...@liii.com"...after all, she's the one
with the gender problem.
---
Lavender-Velvet Revolution
www.gay-bible.org
Chief Thracian
> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>
> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
So tell me then...what's REALLY your problem? I presented a wonderful
tale about Grandfather & Grandson. There was nothing in it that would
insult any woman, man, hetero, bi, etc. Yet you feel you must impose a
self-righteous statement...that is a common insult used by heteros to
gays (whom they see as ultimately inferior to their own breeder
values).
The only thing I can conclude, is that you saw my sig. which has URL
"www.gay-bible.org"...and thus, being a reference to "gay", you
couldn't just leave it alone, but tried instead to stir up the
anti-gay shit.
And THAT my dear, is what you are REALLY all about: female-breeder
skank, pure and simple.
---
Lavender-Velvet Revolution
http://surf.to/gaybible
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>
>> And Celtic, lol, as *all* pagans are Celtic, don't you know?
>
>Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Very true. I did not write this.
(Rest of silly rant snipped)
Chief Thracian
> yes rants are interesting ,, wonder what his feels are toward rape??
What a provocative question. Are you implying that just because I'm
gay, I actually enjoy the idea or rape? You know, many judges of court
believe that queers love being raped, so life imprisonment (in judges'
eyes) would be a HOLIDAY for any queer.
So if you want to know my opinion about rape, you'll need to present
the issue in a separate thread, where there is no indication of
backhanded insults that put me on the defensive before I even make any
comments.
Again, you and that female skank prove concisely that homophobia has
its levels of subtlety, which arrogant heteros just LOVE to toss into
any discussion, once some decent gay participant shows up.
> --
> Allan
>
> www.allanhahn.uwnet.nl
Ahhh, yes, "liberal, gay-friendly" Holland...which allows Muslim
clerics to spew public death sentences against queers, in the name of
religion...yet does not allow same from Catholic, Christian, or Jewish
churches...or for that matter, from any OTHER religious groups
whatsoever. You're a bunch of chicken-shit phonies.
Your website has a most appropriate title: "Realm of the Lost". I
propose that as the new name for The Netherlands.
---
Consider me the ampersand in S&M
http://www.gay-bible.org/
Chief Thracian
> You said it sistah! This guy is a silly troll.
No troll writes his own tales and shares them with others. It is a sad
reflection on these pagan newsgroups, that NOT ONE comment of
appreciation has been posted, for my lovely grandfather tale.
And YOU try to tell ME, that heteros are as good as queers? Well, the
proof is in the pudding...for shame, for shame, on you idiots.
---
Lavender-Velvet Revotion
www.gay-bible.org
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<b6uh5e$b86$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
>> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>>
>> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>
>So tell me then...what's REALLY your problem?
Not a thing. It's not my fault you had your sense of humor surgically
removed.
I said the "w" word! Oh no! :)
WOMEN!
There, I said it again!! It's like saying NI in the Holy Grail! NI! NI!
Chief Thracian, you must get us....a SHRUBBERY!!! Or I shall say WOMEN
to you a third time!!!
Nick Argall
"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com...
> reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message
news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>
> > You said it sistah! This guy is a silly troll.
>
> No troll writes his own tales and shares them with others.
False
Joseph B. Wilson
Actually, Zeke aka Chief Thracian probably fits the definition of a
kook <http://www.kook-watch.net/mdavis/kooks/kooks.html> much more
closely than that of a troll
<http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_trol.html>
Joseph
-
Joseph Bearwalker Wilson
Spectacular failures are sometimes more useful than modest sucesses.
http://www.metista.com
http://www.josephbwilson.com/
http://www.1734.ws
http://www.shamanist.net
F-lamers, kooks, and trolls cheerfully ignored.
Nick Argall
"Joseph B. Wilson" <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote in message
news:mg0i9v0crlekq07kq...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 05:04:42 GMT, "Nick Argall"
> <nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in
message
> >news:d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com...
> >> reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message
> >news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
> >>
> >> > You said it sistah! This guy is a silly troll.
> >>
> >> No troll writes his own tales and shares them with others.
> >
> >False
> >
>
> Actually, Zeke aka Chief Thracian probably fits the definition of a
> kook <http://www.kook-watch.net/mdavis/kooks/kooks.html> much more
> closely than that of a troll
> <http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_trol.html>
Curses! Foiled again!
Lucida
With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>>
>>> And Celtic, lol, as *all* pagans are Celtic, don't you know?
>>
>>Wrong, wrong, wrong.
>
>Very true. I did not write this.
>
>(Rest of silly rant snipped)
>
His words exactly... Implying that you are Celtic if you are pagan...
>>Ah, yes, ye Pagan Hag; even your farts betray you. You clothing may be
>>Celtic, but your soul remains just what it's always been: a puppet for
>>the Religious Reich. You are an INFILTRATOR of our Pagan world..
I guess even he is not interested enough in his rants to remember what
he says, lol...
Lucida
Lucida
With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>In article <d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com>,
>Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<b6uh5e$b86$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>>> In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>>> Ezekiel J. Krahlin <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>>> >GRANDFATHER & GRANDSON
>>> >(a parable for the 21st century)
>>>
>>> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>>
>>So tell me then...what's REALLY your problem?
>
>Not a thing. It's not my fault you had your sense of humor surgically
>removed.
>
>I said the "w" word! Oh no! :)
>
>WOMEN!
>
>There, I said it again!! It's like saying NI in the Holy Grail! NI! NI!
>
>Chief Thracian, you must get us....a SHRUBBERY!!! Or I shall say WOMEN
>to you a third time!!!
>
We already have a "shrubbery," and look what that's gotten us...
Perhaps something else might be better. ;-P Besides, he doesn't like
bush...
Lucida
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Lucida <spamb...@webtv.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 03:04:18 +0000 (UTC), reds...@liii.com (She Devil
>With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>
>>In article <d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com>,
>>Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>>>reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>>>
>>>> And Celtic, lol, as *all* pagans are Celtic, don't you know?
>>>
>>>Wrong, wrong, wrong.
>>
>>Very true. I did not write this.
>>
>>(Rest of silly rant snipped)
>
>His words exactly... Implying that you are Celtic if you are pagan...
>
>>>Ah, yes, ye Pagan Hag; even your farts betray you. You clothing may be
>>>Celtic, but your soul remains just what it's always been: a puppet for
>>>the Religious Reich. You are an INFILTRATOR of our Pagan world..
>
>
>I guess even he is not interested enough in his rants to remember what
>he says, lol...
That definitely makes two of us. ;-7
I'm agreeing with Joe at this point: he's a netkook.
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Lucida <spamb...@webtv.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 03:18:34 +0000 (UTC), reds...@liii.com (She Devil
>With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>
>>Chief Thracian, you must get us....a SHRUBBERY!!! Or I shall say WOMEN
>>to you a third time!!!
>>
>
>We already have a "shrubbery," and look what that's gotten us...
>Perhaps something else might be better. ;-P Besides, he doesn't like
>bush...
Chief Thracian, you must get us...a COMPETENT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR
THE PRESIDENCY IN 2004, or I shall say WOMEN to you a third time!!!!
Joseph B. Wilson
<nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>"Joseph B. Wilson" <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote in message
>news:mg0i9v0crlekq07kq...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 05:04:42 GMT, "Nick Argall"
>> <nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in
>message
>> >news:d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com...
>> >> reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message
>> >news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>> >>
>> >> > You said it sistah! This guy is a silly troll.
>> >>
>> >> No troll writes his own tales and shares them with others.
>> >
>> >False
>> >
>>
>> Actually, Zeke aka Chief Thracian probably fits the definition of a
>> kook <http://www.kook-watch.net/mdavis/kooks/kooks.html> much more
>> closely than that of a troll
>> <http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_trol.html>
>
>Curses! Foiled again!
>
Naaa, not Foiled! Not even épéed. These days few people understand
the distinction, more's the pity. <g>
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Joseph B. Wilson <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:34:32 GMT, "Nick Argall"
><nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Joseph B. Wilson" <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote in message
>>news:mg0i9v0crlekq07kq...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 05:04:42 GMT, "Nick Argall"
>>> <nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in
>>message
>>> >news:d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com...
>>> >> reds...@liii.com (She Devil With A Rubber Chicken) wrote in message
>>> >news:<b73rgb$9oj$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net>...
>>> >>
>>> >> > You said it sistah! This guy is a silly troll.
>>> >>
>>> >> No troll writes his own tales and shares them with others.
>>> >
>>> >False
>>> >
>>>
>>> Actually, Zeke aka Chief Thracian probably fits the definition of a
>>> kook <http://www.kook-watch.net/mdavis/kooks/kooks.html> much more
>>> closely than that of a troll
>>> <http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_trol.html>
>>
>>Curses! Foiled again!
>>
>the distinction, more's the pity. <g>
I prefer sabre, m'self. :D
Nick Argall
"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
news:b7bu8k$8lf$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
> In article <nvti9vsk6to38rqsa...@4ax.com>,
> Joseph B. Wilson <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote:
> >On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:34:32 GMT, "Nick Argall"
> ><nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >>Curses! Foiled again!
> >>
> >Naaa, not Foiled! Not even epee'd. These days few people understand
> >the distinction, more's the pity. <g>
>
> I prefer sabre, m'self. :D
You and your rapier-like wit, touche!
I hated foils - the right-of-way rules never made any sense to me.
Nick
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Nick Argall <nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
>news:b7bu8k$8lf$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
>> In article <nvti9vsk6to38rqsa...@4ax.com>,
>> Joseph B. Wilson <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote:
>> >On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:34:32 GMT, "Nick Argall"
>> ><nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>> >>Curses! Foiled again!
>> >>
>> >Naaa, not Foiled! Not even epee'd. These days few people understand
>> >the distinction, more's the pity. <g>
>>
>> I prefer sabre, m'self. :D
>
>You and your rapier-like wit, touche!
*giggle* I have my "on" days, I guess. :D
>I hated foils - the right-of-way rules never made any sense to me.
My husband began teaching me fencing with sabre rather than foil. He
said it suited my personality better. He was right. But it taught me
bad habits which extended into the other styles. It's generally
better to begin with foil.
As for right of way, sabre has that too. All the Olympic styles of
fencing do. The fun begins when you leave sport fencing behind and
start getting into SCA-style (rapier and dagger in the round) and
classical, both of which are more realistic than sport/strip fencing.
All that right-of-way stuff is hooey to make it easier to judge.
No one in a real duel would care about such things, and they are
not part of either SCA or classical fencing AFAIK.
All right, I've wandered enough OT for one thread.
theoneflasehaddock
mic...@thelastchurch.borg wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2003 19:55:01 -0700,
> zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com (Chief
> Thracian) wrote:
>
>
>>a person who is not a Christian,
>
>
> Better rewrite your dictionary. There are many pagan
> Christians.
Yeah. There is both Brenda, and Michael the spam church. Don't overlook
them.
> Anyone who does not agree with Organized
> religions view of the bible is a Pagan.
By one definition, yes. BY most definitions, no.
> Or should I
> say anyone who knows the truth of the bible.
I don't even want to know. Please go away again.
--
theoneflasehaddock
Offender of the Faith.
A reel Troll.
Damn grass-gropin, tree-huggin, elf-suckin, dandelion-eatin,
pacifistic, new-age, massmedia, oppositionally-defiant,
counter-culture, wannabe fluffybunnies anyhow....
Don't like my postings? post and whine about it.
(J00 HAVVE VIOLATE D YOUR TERMMS OF ZERVICE (KEEYWERD: TOSSAQ))
Chief Thracian
<papa...@shamanist.net> wrote:
>Actually, Zeke aka Chief Thracian probably fits the definition of a
>kook <http://www.kook-watch.net/mdavis/kooks/kooks.html>
Creative genius has always been derided throughout our history. One
reason why former Christians change to some variety of paganism, is to
avoid such narrowminded attitudes. Unfortunately, such
counter-religions have failed to provide such sanctuary, and have
wound up having far more in common with ugly Christians, than with
true Paganism...for one: homophobia, for another: insulting talented
people, merely because they are marked as different from the
norm...which is the Christian norm.
Try being a real pagan and opening up your mind.
Chief Thracian
With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>Not a thing. It's not my fault you had your sense of humor surgically
>removed.
Hardly. You posted an anti-gay insult...and now try to cover up your
tracks by claiming it was your sense of humor. Hardly. Insulting a gay
man is not at all funny, in and of itself. I guess white folks once
thought it a joke to trivialize black slaves. Ha, ha...soooo funny, I
apologize for not getting it the first few times around. NOT.
>Chief Thracian, you must get us....a SHRUBBERY!!! Or I shall say
WOMEN
>to you a third time!!!
Yeah, like it's so rewarding when self-righteous female bigots INSIST
in pushing a vagina in the face of any gay person who doesn't know his
place.
And THAT'S what you're about, dear...nothing more, nothing less. You
CANNOT tolerate any gay person in your presence, without pushing your
insecure feminine libel into his face. Great tale be damned, eh?
You are no different in this matter, than any Christian (or Muslim)
bigot.
I contributed a very lovely tale, and you can't stand it that it was
authored by a gay person...who is intrinsically INFERIOR to heteros
(or so you imply).
So tell me again, why you found it worthwhile to insult me, when there
was no insult intended or even implied, in my Grandfather tale. The
only thing that could have set you off is my URL, which has "gay" in
it.
Please, I really want to know: Don't you find my Granfather tale a
lovely story? Where do you think anywhere in the story, would justify
you making a generice anti-gay slur?
And to everyone else: what is your point in not at least ONE PERSON
paying a compliment to my tale which ELEVATES pagan ideals, and has
nothing to do with conventional Christianity?
IOW: Oh, so-called pagan participants: where is your heart? Why aren't
you setting a good example that pagans are not narrow-minded buffoons
like many Christians and Muslims? Others who are Christian surely
visit pagan groups like this, when they desire to reject the
strait-jacket of their own Jesus mania?
You who have commented in this thread, have failed to show anyone that
paganism is any better than Christianity...what with allowing
homophobic remarks to occur with absolutely no peer pressure from
anyone (except myself, of course).
(Of course, by this point I don't expect any reasonable replies to my
"queeries"...which is all the more shameful, and adds a dark blot to
the history of pagan and shaman folks.)
---
Lavender-Velvet Revolution
www.gay-bible.org
theoneflasehaddock
Chief Thracian wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 03:18:34 +0000 (UTC), reds...@liii.com (She Devil
> With A Rubber Chicken) wrote:
>
>
>>Chief Thracian, you must get us....a SHRUBBERY!!! Or I shall say
>
> WOMEN
>
>>to you a third time!!!
>
>
> Yeah, like it's so rewarding when self-righteous female bigots INSIST
> in pushing a vagina in the face of any gay person who doesn't know his
> place.
And why can't they ever do it to us heterosexuals, huh?
I have not had one person ever wave a vagina in my face on usenet. I
never even imagined it was possible.
What kind of newsreader are you using that it shows up in?
ba...@dmcom.net
> I have not had one person ever wave a vagina in my face on usenet. I
> never even imagined it was possible.
> What kind of newsreader are you using that it shows up in?
>
Well you could try some of the binary groups, though not sure how many
females post images of themselves.
--
news:alt.pagan FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/altpag.txt
news:alt.religion.wicca FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/arwfaq2.txt
news:news.groups FAQ at http://www.dmcom.net/bard/ngfaq.txt
Want a new group FAQs http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/ncreate.html
Nicodarius
such and such about you being gay. How much has actually been said in the
previous posts and how much are you actually putting into our mouths so to
speak. Seems to me the majority of your replies are based on what you think
we're thinking not on what we're thinking at all.
How bout getting down off your high horse for a few moments and taking a
look at what people truely are saying without judging us just cause we're
hetero and just because you've had a few bad experiences with hetero people
in your life. It may surprise you to find that most people here don't give
a crap about you being gay except when you think you're owed something by us
for someone elses short sightedness.
And before you say "yeah but such and such did it to me so why shouldn't i
do it to you" when did two wrongs ever make a right? Answer: NEVER.
Nico
"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:d46ddbb9.0304...@posting.google.com...
Nicodarius
Nico
"Nicodarius" <Nicod...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:b7f9rf$h25$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Nick Argall
> In article <hosma.4492$hF.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> Nick Argall <nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >"She Devil With A Rubber Chicken" <reds...@liii.com> wrote in message
> >news:b7bu8k$8lf$1...@eri0.s8.isp.nyc.eggn.net...
> >> In article <nvti9vsk6to38rqsa...@4ax.com>,
> >> Joseph B. Wilson <papa...@shamanist.net> wrote:
> >> >On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:34:32 GMT, "Nick Argall"
> >> ><nargall....@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >> >>Curses! Foiled again!
> >> >>
> >> >Naaa, not Foiled! Not even epee'd. These days few people understand
> >> >the distinction, more's the pity. <g>
> >>
> >> I prefer sabre, m'self. :D
> >
> >You and your rapier-like wit, touche!
>
> *giggle* I have my "on" days, I guess. :D
>
> >I hated foils - the right-of-way rules never made any sense to me.
>
> My husband began teaching me fencing with sabre rather than foil. He
> said it suited my personality better. He was right. But it taught me
> bad habits which extended into the other styles. It's generally
> better to begin with foil.
>
> As for right of way, sabre has that too. All the Olympic styles of
> fencing do.
I believe that epee is free of R-O-W nonsense.
> The fun begins when you leave sport fencing behind and
> start getting into SCA-style (rapier and dagger in the round) and
> classical, both of which are more realistic than sport/strip fencing.
> All that right-of-way stuff is hooey to make it easier to judge.
> No one in a real duel would care about such things, and they are
> not part of either SCA or classical fencing AFAIK.
>
> All right, I've wandered enough OT for one thread.
So, what otherworldly insights have you gained while fencing? :)
Nick
Chief Thracian
>And why can't they ever do it to us heterosexuals, huh?
>I have not had one person ever wave a vagina in my face on usenet. I
>never even imagined it was possible.
>What kind of newsreader are you using that it shows up in?
One created by heterocentric programmers, of course:
"Breed Agent". ; )
---
Straight men prefer trained gerbils
over their demanding harpy wives.
htt://www.gay-bible.org
(".org" short for "orgasm" of course)
Chief Thracian
<Nicod...@nomail.com> wrote:
>How much has actually been said in the
>previous posts and how much are you actually
>putting into our mouths so to speak.
EVERY TIME I post some gay-relevant material to a pagan or shaman
group, I receive INSULTS that can only be attributed to homophobia.
And NO ONE (except very rarely) ever confronts the offender.
The insults are not hard-core homophobic, but what I term "soft
homophobia". IOW, friendly fire can kill a soldier just as effectively
as upfront enemies. The fact that whenever I am insulted for my being
gay, in pagan/shaman groups, rarely does anyone care to acknowledge
that it's going on.
Soft homophobia is a way to discourage and even drive away, any gay
presence in the group(s). The game is to pretend the offender never
did insult me, by not even addressing the matter, even when I point it
out more than once (as I'm doing once more, in this group).
>Seems to me the majority of your replies are based on what you think
>we're thinking not on what we're thinking at all.
No, it's based on years' experience living in an extremely
heterosexist society. What comes out of their mouths--which may be
subtle to other heteros who are not gay-hateful, but nonetheless
clueless about homophobic vitriol in all its various forms--makes it
easy to deduce what's going on in their pea brains.
>How bout getting down off your high horse for a few moments and
taking a
>look at what people truely are saying without judging us just cause
we're
>hetero and just because you've had a few bad experiences with hetero
people
>in your life.
A few? Surely you joke. No, wait...you are one of these "clueless"
breeders who think you have the last word on gay matters. An example
of how YOU are also participating in the insults...as that you took
NOT ONE SINGLE MOMENT to actually comment on my Grandfather tale...and
assuming you like it...thank me for the contribution.
>It may surprise you to find that most people here don't give
>a crap about you being gay except when you think you're
>owed something by us
>for someone elses short sightedness.
Untrue. They don't give a crap about my being gay, if I REMAIN SILENT
about that aspect of my spirituality.
>And before you say "yeah but such and such did it to me so why
shouldn't i
>do it to you" when did two wrongs ever make a right? Answer: NEVER.
False. I am a mirror shaman...by reflecting another's ignorance, I
help others see more clearly, how anti-gay bigotry maintains itself in
forms of subterfuge and silent approval of an offender's homophobic
slur. You may consider it a form of parody.
As in this thread...when the instigator (reds...@liii.com "She Devil
With A Rubber Chicken") made one lone remark about my tale:
> It's difficult to have grandsons without women.
>
> Hope this helps. ;-7
Certainly, that's a lot "gentler" insult than straight-out calling me
"f*ggot"...but it's still a homophobic slur.
Yet you and others who claim to be so open minded and 100% gay
friendly, look the other way, and continue to ignore the two main
points about why the audience in this thread is quite rude (for the
most part):
1. A participant made an anti-gay slur, which no one here cares to
acknowledge
2. I contributed a fine tale that no one here cared to show any
appreciation.
---
Q. How many heteros does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A. I don't know, they're still trying to breed enough brains
to meet the challenge!
Chief Thracian
> And before you say "yeah but such and such did it to me so why shouldn't i
> do it to you" when did two wrongs ever make a right? Answer: NEVER.
Another point: You are suggesting that if a homophobe starts bashing
me or a friend, I shouldn't bash back? Nonsense. It's called self
defense...and is no less applicable when it comes to verbal bashing.
For that is where the seeds of violence are planted: through
vocalizing threats and hatred in public, at home, in schools, and in
work places. If you don't challenge it at that level, you are less
likely to influence society to a saner perspective.
---
If we allow heteros to legally mate, then what other
atrocities will we soon permit...bestiality and pedophilia?
Chief Thracian
>Better rewrite your dictionary. There are many pagan
>Christians. Anyone who does not agree with Organized
>religions view of the bible is a Pagan. Or should I
>say anyone who knows the truth of the bible.
It's not MY dictionary, ignoramus. It's a standard and respected
dictionary, Random House.
Why don't YOU show me a definition from any standard dictionary, that
fits your definition? Else, you lose the argument. *plonk*
---
Hetero women prefer trained gerbils
over their piggish male partners.
www.gay-bible.org
Nicodarius
say one thing. Congratulations on a great story. There you happy now? For
your information i never saw your original post i just saw you accuse
everyone in here (four separate newsgroups) of being homophobic which would
include me even if i am a newbie to this group. If you mean specific
individuals then name them or reply only to their newsgroup. You'll
probably find for the most part that a lot of the people who responded to
you are only responding because of your false accusation.
False you may say and you may still say i am a homophobe. I would ask you
to prove it. Where in my post did i come out and did i say anything against
you or your sexuality. For the life of me i cannot see it or remember it
and i typed the thing. Granted the comment on "Hope this helps" was a bit
rude but it was far from being homophobic. Do you deny the fact that we
need females in order to continue the species? Even if you don't like
heterosexuality or it's practices it does continue the human race and you
CANNOT deny that or say that anyone who isn't gay is against you (which i
might add you have said despite your saying that you're holding our
ignorance up against us).
From my limited point of view regarding spirituality, you have a long way to
go my friend if you cannot put that insult aside but feel the need to insult
everyone back then defend your actions by saying you're only holding a
mirror up to them.
I am done. My apologies to Noinden for rebutting this but i have a long way
to go also with regards to spirituality and i dislike being falsely accused
when i have done nothing wrong. The truth always comes out however and I
was always told that the reason one gets so pissed off and angry about
something someone has said is because they know it to be true but do not
want to believe it.
Nico
"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com...
Nicodarius
whole of four separate newsgroups of being homophobic both those who did
insult you and those who didn't even say anything and may even agree with
you but aren't willing to speak up. You may say that they aren't willing to
speak up cause they are secretly homophobic anyway but how would you know
unless you are them or have spoken to them.
Nico
"Chief Thracian" <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote in message
news:d46ddbb9.03041...@posting.google.com...
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Only one:
A man who consistently both tries to shame opponent by going for the
same target repeatedly, and/or harm opponent by choosing a dirty target
(crotch, back) tends to take a point in the Adam's Apple when the
opponent is yours truly. It doesn't matter how good the person is -
they could be a fencing master. My point ends up in their throat, and
quite truthfully I can tell you that when it happens, I am not quite
sure how it gets there. It's happened twice.
It's a Freya thing. Of that, I am certain. There was another time that
I was fencing someone and we were engaging in the usual silly fencing
banter, and he jokingly said something about Odin. So sort of accidentally
I invoked Freya, and the poor guy (who is now the local SCA fencing
marshal) ended up watching his blade go sailing across the parking lot.
He dove to try and catch it and ended up on his knees, with my point...
guess where.
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:21:25 -0400, theoneflasehaddock <fuc...@now.dammit> wrote:
>
>>And why can't they ever do it to us heterosexuals, huh?
>>I have not had one person ever wave a vagina in my face on usenet. I
>>never even imagined it was possible.
>>What kind of newsreader are you using that it shows up in?
Actually it's symptomatic of the dork's problem that all he can see
when someone brings up the subject of WOMEN (NI!) are genitalia.
She Devil With A Rubber Chicken
Chief Thracian <zekeol...@chiefthracian.mailshell.com> wrote:
>
>acknowledge
That's because most sane people realize it was not an anti-gay slur.
The problem is your insecurity, not your sexuality.
>2. I contributed a fine tale that no one here cared to show any
>appreciation.
Not everyone thought it was so great, I guess. Oh well.
People have different opinions in the big wide world. Some of them
are not going to agree with yours. Deal with it.
Nita Byrd
> > The Last Church
> http://www.thelastchurch.org
> mic...@thelastchurch.org
First, I realize that some of you who read this may have had unpleasant
experiences with Christianity, or don't like it, or don't care or respect
what Jesus Christ is as seen through the eye of organized religion. I don't
intend to attempt any kind of tactics designed to "convert" anyone here, as
I wouldn't know how. I only have an honest story to tell in relation to
having Jesus Christ, the *spirit*, as my main guide in my spiritual life and
the foundation of my work as an alternative healer and hypnotherapist.
I went to your website, and found the ideas quite interesting, the artwork
intriguing.
I appreciate your beliefs about Christ Spirit within. Where you say the two
become one is to know Christ, I would like to give my interpretation, coming
from the Andean spiritual teachings. I believe that one knows Christ also
by the *transcendence* of two (I am referring to the seeming separations of
the brain--logical and the emotional). As a child I grew up agnostic, but
encouraged to attend churches that my parents previously were a part
of--Baptist and Catholic. I was actually baptized Catholic. To truly know
Christ's spirit, at least for me, is to realize that he's been with me since
my impressionable years as a child. I obviously had to find him in the
church, not on my own. For the brief time I was exposed to the teachings,
his spirit became a part of me, and it seems, the organized aspect of
Christianity never rang true for me as a child, nor later growing up. It
seemed so artificial, the church structure, although I enjoyed coloring the
bible scenes:). I did not see the sense in remembering the stories by rote,
however. I'm now a grandmother times 3, and still feel no attraction for
one dogma over another, yet I truly believe that the spirit of Christ is
true enough, as a teaching spirit of moral authority, and he's made an
indelible impression on my heart and soul. I agree totally that LOVE and
COMPASSION is what makes it so. I believe that children truly perceive the
spirit of Christ because they are nearer to pure God-spirit than we are as
jaded adults, for the most part heavily engaged in logical thinking
applications.
Christ and God are interconnected. As some think that angels are messengers
of God, so I believe that Christ spirit is the mediator between me and God.
The Andean spiritual teachings say that a human being is like a seed of
INNOCENCE at conception (not SIN). So I believe, accepting Christ's spirit
as who became a part of me since childhood, is the understanding that the
idea of "original sin" fostered and nurtured within organized Christianity,
is definitely not what was intended by the first Christian revolutionary,
Jesus Christ. And one wonders if there was truly the historic man, Jesus,
or was it enough.... that a group of revolutionaries of spiritual thought,
were the core of the idea of LOVE and COMPASSION, themselves coming from the
Essenes, who were adepts at energy healing, the "laying on of hands". Let
us say, that it doesn't really matter. The UNIVERSAL TRUISM of LOVE and
COMPASSION is an undying idea, and Jesus Christ is one heck of a
representative!
When I was first hypnotized formerly, I was blessed with a true miracle. I
saw in my mind's eye, for a few seconds, Jesus Christ the spirit, who was
clearly the truth--his face was made of illuminescent light. If you have
ever had a lucid dream and discovered beings of light, i.e., illuminated by
their own light just as one notices a light bulb on in waking reality, you
will appreciate my understanding. His message was that my work as a
hypnotherapist was to be based in the realm of spiritual understandings. I
have found that to be the key guiding principle of my integrity as a helper
for others. I soon embraced the lesson of Christ as the heart of healing on
all levels of being, therefore--mental, emotional and physical--which
naturally led me into the world of the shamanic practitioner with a strong
appreciation of how much *spiritual energy* is the force in turning physical
illness around again toward health. Since embracing love and compassion,
which is never static, is always a challenge for me as a person hoping to
continue to grow in spirit, I discovered that I also had other spirit
helpers for not only my own development as a person in becoming who I truly
am intended to be, but also as an advantage in helping others. So when I do
healings, for example, I first call on Jesus, and then on my spirits who can
come and help with the task I have at hand.
Happy Renewal All,
Nita
theoneflasehaddock
mic...@thelastchurch.borg wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:27:06 -0400, "Nita Byrd"
> <nita...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>Happy Renewal All,
>>Nita
>
>
> Christ says, If you want to know the spirit that is God
> you MUST first know yourself.
Does being braindead make that easier or harder to do?
Arak Thaylann
I only have an honest story to tell in relation to
> having Jesus Christ, the *spirit*, as my main guide in my spiritual life and
> the foundation of my work as an alternative healer and hypnotherapist.
No problem. However, I do have problems with new age healers
(especially those who do hypnotherapy). I hope you are qualified
(i.e.: a Masters or Ph.D in Psychology) before screwing with people's
minds. I almost died because of a non-qualified hypnotherapist healer
who messed with my head.
>I was actually baptized Catholic. To truly know
> Christ's spirit, at least for me, is to realize that he's been with me since
> my impressionable years as a child. I obviously had to find him in the
> church, not on my own.
I was too. Our stories are similar, however, to me Christ was (and
still is) merely just another enlightened being like Guatama
Siddartha, not a God.
> Christ and God are interconnected. As some think that angels are messengers
> of God, so I believe that Christ spirit is the mediator between me and God.
Everything and The Creative Force (God if you will) are
interconnected. Even you and me are interconnected with that force.
> When I was first hypnotized formerly, I was blessed with a true miracle. I
> saw in my mind's eye, for a few seconds, Jesus Christ the spirit, who was
> clearly the truth--his face was made of illuminescent light.
When I was first hypnotized, my mind was raped by a so called
representative of Jesus Christ who in turn had me doubting my own
faith as a Druid. This spiritual violation cost me my health and
almost my life. It took me almost a year to deprogram myself from the
shit that guy had planted into my head. To this day, I will not allow
anyone to hypnotize me no matter how careful or qualified they are. I
hope you realize that people are drawn to the paths they are drawn to
for a damned good reason. Had I not returned to my faith as a Druid,
I might not be here to tell about it.
So when I do
> healings, for example, I first call on Jesus, and then on my spirits who can
> come and help with the task I have at hand.
Happy renewal, Nita. Thank you for sharing you enlightening story
with us. Stay true to your faith and allow others to be true to
theirs.
Arak /|\
Nita Byrd
"Arak Thaylann" <thay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7e12aef4.03042...@posting.google.com...
> "Nita Byrd" <nita...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:<b7t7im$hmh$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
> I only have an honest story to tell in relation to
> > having Jesus Christ, the *spirit*, as my main guide in my spiritual life
and
> > the foundation of my work as an alternative healer and hypnotherapist.
>
> No problem. However, I do have problems with new age healers
> (especially those who do hypnotherapy). I hope you are qualified
> (i.e.: a Masters or Ph.D in Psychology) before screwing with people's
> minds. I almost died because of a non-qualified hypnotherapist healer
> who messed with my head.
First of all, I'm really sorry that you had a terrible, life-threatening
experience with a hypnotherapist. You should have been able to sue and won
your case. Though I am insured, I've never had any problems in the 9 years
I've been an active, fully certified Advanced Hypnotherapist with additional
training hours received this year. I strive to keep updated and meet all
requirements of continuing education. I consider myself a professional in
my field, along with high standards of an alternative practice. You may
consider hypnotherapy new age; I do not, since it's been used by shamans,
healers in many cultures and certainly since Mesmer made it popular in the
19th Century. When American doctors stopped requiring hypnosis as part of
the medical curriculae around 1957 in the US, it naturally opened the door
for alternative practioners in the art to take over where they left off.
Chiropractors had many years of effort in becoming recognized as a
mainstream health profession, which hypnotherapists are undergoing today.
Interestingly enough, few psychologists prefer to just use just
hypnotherapy--it's sometimes a powerful tool, but one among several in use
by them. I protect my client by having a psychotherapist who acts as
advisor when necessary, if I feel that the client would do best to seek an
appt. with a psychologist; otherwise, if working with someone who is taking
psychotropic meds and has mental challenges, I never work alone, but always
with the permission of the patient's primary mental health care provider.
While I do not have an academic degree, only two years of college, I'm
certified by the leading hypnosis organization, the NGH. My field does not
require academic degrees since they are not an indicator of competence. Are
you familiar with the 1972 study conducted by the A.P.A (the American
Psychology Assn.) clinical study which showed the surprising results that
degreed, trained professionals did just as well, and often better outcomes
in counseling to college students, as compared with those who had 20 years
experience in the field? That some of the conclusions of this study were so
bold as to say that non-professional help was more effective than
professional, degreed counselling? In my 9 years as a hypnotherapist, I've
never known, nor heard of one who was legally sued on grounds of
incompetency or messing up anyone's mind. Secondly, most states in the US
do not require a license to practice as hypnotherapists don't offer
psychotherapy, nor are they mainstream mental health professionals. They do
offer, as I do "life enhancement" such as smoking cessation, weight control,
self-confidence, & self-esteem. Okay, last, I make every attempt to work
with a client's team of medical professionals. If you or anyone else has
the need to work with someone with a degree, then it is certainly your
privilage to do so. However the vast majority of hypnotherapists certified
in the US are wonderfully kind, hardworking, caring individuals. They've
had to pass a board assessment, must adhere to a code of ethics, and will
be kicked out of their respective guilds if peers report them and just cause
is found against them by the board. I'm aware of a few hypnotherapists, all
male, who were disowned through having failed to uphold the ethics of the
guild--and were subsequently kicked out of my organization.
> >I was actually baptized Catholic. To truly know
> > Christ's spirit, at least for me, is to realize that he's been with me
since
> > my impressionable years as a child. I obviously had to find him in the
> > church, not on my own.
>
> I was too. Our stories are similar, however, to me Christ was (and
> still is) merely just another enlightened being like Guatama
> Siddartha, not a God.
I can truly accept that. As I mentioned, there is no real historical proof
of Christ's historical presence other than hearsay, you know? Nor if he
existed, is there proof of a supernatural being in the literal sense. That
is why I said that it could be that he wasn't just one great spiritual
leader, as a Siddartha or Buddha, e.g., but a *few* powerful Jewish men
coming from the teachings of the essenes who were ready to show a new way of
spiritual life by love and the practice of compassion for others; seemingly
the very antitheses of Roman life of the day. In that era, whatever the
case may be for Jesus the great spiritual man, or the Jewish healers who we
associate with the power of 'laying on of hands', as actually responsible
for the myth of Jesus, which is not a common notion, just a speculation I
have....in any real case scenario, the essenes had much influence on Jesus,
as he would have grown up with their teachings on how to do healing with
'laying on of hands'. Also, love and compassion were just the winning ideas
needed for the people against the depravity, shallowness, and material
excesses of the times, in the last gasp and dying breath of the Roman
Empire.
Sometimes even my own perspectives change, and I can also perceive different
views depending on the angle, so to speak, and I feel comfortable with all
of them.
> > Christ and God are interconnected. As some think that angels are
messengers
> > of God, so I believe that Christ spirit is the mediator between me and
God.
>
> Everything and The Creative Force (God if you will) are
> interconnected. Even you and me are interconnected with that force.
Yes. For you, it is "The Creative Force". I like that. That description
has a dynamic quality of power. I often speak of the Spiritual Center
within each of us, a microcosm of this connection with the macro of The
Creative Force, if you will. Some benevolent changes come about as a
person connects more closely with that personal 'spiritual
center-god-goddess' within, which is not only looking out for our best
interests, but which also makes creative use of problem solving and opening
up new opportunities to live more 'life-full' and happy. I am not the
authority of course. It does seem when a person truly makes a connection
within with that which is their own awesome spirit, that the connection is
also made with "The Creative Force". I see that when outside events show
something is happening in that framework as well as inner change going on.
>
> > When I was first hypnotized formerly, I was blessed with a true miracle.
I
> > saw in my mind's eye, for a few seconds, Jesus Christ the spirit, who
was
> > clearly the truth--his face was made of illuminescent light.
>
> When I was first hypnotized, my mind was raped by a so called
> representative of Jesus Christ who in turn had me doubting my own
> faith as a Druid.
....sad, really, I'm so sorry you had to go through something like this. It
hardly sounds right. I've never known a hypnotherapist to say they were
Jesus Christ's representative. To have the spirit of Jesus as one's guide,
is certainly NOT being the spirit of Jesus himself, by any stretch of the
imagination! Furthermore, an ethical hypnotherapist would never under any
circumstances, attempt to avert the client's belief system. Goodness! Out
of curiousity, was the practitioner in question in my country? Speaking of
Druids, I have a question. Are they connected with the Masons in any way
significant in Druid lore? I've read somewhere that they were, but in
another book they were not, it was a completely made up fantasy. I know
that on my maternal side, the Stewarts, who came to America and changed the
spelling to 'Stuart', had many Masons in their ranks. I've been wondering
about if they had any associations with Druids.
This spiritual violation cost me my health and
> almost my life. It took me almost a year to deprogram myself from the
> shit that guy had planted into my head. To this day, I will not allow
> anyone to hypnotize me no matter how careful or qualified they are.
I respect that. Some even have said they've had unpleasant experiences with
Reiki, which surprised me, yet it's happened, and I appreciate knowing about
it via newsgroup posts, since I wouldn't have heard of occasional problems
with it, otherwise. I am certified in it, and have never received a
complaint about my own work (thank goodness). Why does it seem men are the
ones who do the worst offences, albeit rarely committed, in my field of
hypnotheraphy ? I don't know, but I've known it's true since the early days
of my own beginnings. My only consolation is that the vast majority, again,
are good, competent and caring practioners. Also, it would be naive of me
to not realize that in any given group on this planet, including Druids,
don't have a few bad apples, right?
I
> hope you realize that people are drawn to the paths they are drawn to
> for a damned good reason. Had I not returned to my faith as a Druid,
> I might not be here to tell about it.
I agree, and the same goes for those who I'm best suited to work with in my
field and whatever else I offer to help...I don't want to work with someone
who doesn't feel comfortable with me, who didn't freely seek my help in the
first place. On a personal level, I seem to attract & be attracted to those
who are as different as myself:).
> So when I do
> > healings, for example, I first call on Jesus, and then on my spirits who
can
> > come and help with the task I have at hand.
>
>
> Happy renewal, Nita. Thank you for sharing you enlightening story
> with us. Stay true to your faith and allow others to be true to
> theirs.
>
> Arak /|\
Thank you Arak. I won't stay any longer, as I usually don't cross-post to
more than alt.religion.shamanism, but I just thought that it might be
interesting to bring up what I do and be totally sharing with my neighbor
newsgroups. Again, I regret what happened to you. That person obviously
was mis-representing himself. For the readers, do your research on the
hypnotherapist you choose if that's who you want to work with, make sure you
get referrals from satisfied clients, credentials like board certifications
and years of experience and training, since in the US, most states have seen
no cause to require state licensure (too few abuses), and be sure to ask for
a free consultation to really get to know what they offer and so on and if
that would mesh with your beliefs. I never interfere with another's beliefs
or spiritual path....I work with all religions and belief systems. As
Jesus, the spirit embodies only love and compassion within my belief system,
I doubt that anyone who would come to work with me wouldn't want that:).
With respect and Munay (love & creative choice)
Nita