Kingdom Come [spoilers, I guess]
Kirk Is
Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after reading Alan Moore's Twilight
of the Superheroes)--pretty good! And that interesting painting art
style...at first I didn't like it but then it seemed really good.
Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere? The trade paperback
has some notes in the back, and an id guide for the covers, but I was
wondering if there was a summary with backstory for people who aren't as
familiar with all that's gone on before...it was tough to know what was a
new invention for the book, and what a hardcore fan would find familiar.
[SPOILERS], but I guess I don't need to bother with too much space...
Also, and I dejagoogle'd on this a bit, what's going on with Captain
Marvel and "Shazam!"? Some previous poster described it as calling down
the [transformation?] lightning and ducking out of the way...or did he
just transform back and forth? (Actually I'm a little slow on Captain
Marvel in general...is it a wizard's name he's calling out to that rock,
and the wizard sends down this lightning that transforms Billy?)
Anyway, I've always dug the apocalyptic, large universe stuff, including
both the old and new Miller Dark Knight stuff, and the Moore treatment.
I'm finally getting to read Watchmen now as well.
--
QUOTEBLOG: http://kisrael.com SKEPTIC MORTALITY: http://kisrael.com/mortal
"If I knew who Godot was, I would have said so in the play" --Beckett
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere?
There was extra material included in the slipcased hardcover set, but I
don't know how much of that made it into the paperback.
There was also the book-length Kingdom Come Comicology issue, but good
luck finding a copy of that, since DC threatened legal action.
There were a number of annotations posted here, I seem to recall -- have
you tried googling for background information?
Sorry that isn't as much help as I'd like to be.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Procrastination, Galaxion, Sheba, Waiting Place,
Xeno's Arrow, Reviews including Agent X, Spider-Man, much more
Jeremy Henderson
wrote:
>
>Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after reading Alan Moore's Twilight
>of the Superheroes)--pretty good! And that interesting painting art
>style...at first I didn't like it but then it seemed really good.
>
>Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere? The trade paperback
>has some notes in the back, and an id guide for the covers, but I was
>wondering if there was a summary with backstory for people who aren't as
>familiar with all that's gone on before...it was tough to know what was a
>new invention for the book, and what a hardcore fan would find familiar.
>
>[SPOILERS], but I guess I don't need to bother with too much space...
>
>Also, and I dejagoogle'd on this a bit, what's going on with Captain
>Marvel and "Shazam!"? Some previous poster described it as calling down
>the [transformation?] lightning and ducking out of the way...or did he
>just transform back and forth? (Actually I'm a little slow on Captain
>Marvel in general...is it a wizard's name he's calling out to that rock,
>and the wizard sends down this lightning that transforms Billy?)
He's calling down the lightning, and then moving out of the wat at
super-speed to allow the lightning to strike Superman. Magical
lightning = bad news for the magically-vulnerable Supes.
Superman finally grabs a hold of Captain Marvel so he can't run away,
and when the lightning hits Cap it turns him back into Billy Batson.
>Anyway, I've always dug the apocalyptic, large universe stuff, including
>both the old and new Miller Dark Knight stuff, and the Moore treatment.
>I'm finally getting to read Watchmen now as well.
Do a Google search for Jess Nevins' annotations on the miniseries.
You'll find more notes and minutiae than you could possibly imagine on
KC.
Stephen Morelock
news:ZWOG9.356$Y2.1...@news.tufts.edu:
>
> Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after reading Alan Moore's
> Twilight of the Superheroes)--pretty good! And that interesting
> painting art style...at first I didn't like it but then it seemed
> really good.
Hey, where'd you read Twilight and let me get that.
> Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere? The trade
> paperback has some notes in the back, and an id guide for the covers,
> but I was wondering if there was a summary with backstory for people
> who aren't as familiar with all that's gone on before...it was tough
> to know what was a new invention for the book, and what a hardcore fan
> would find familiar.
I believe there's annotations on Chroma City, but I can't recall the URL.
Someone else should be able to help here.
> [SPOILERS], but I guess I don't need to bother with too much space...
>
> Also, and I dejagoogle'd on this a bit, what's going on with Captain
> Marvel and "Shazam!"? Some previous poster described it as calling
> down the [transformation?] lightning and ducking out of the way...or
> did he just transform back and forth? (Actually I'm a little slow on
> Captain Marvel in general...is it a wizard's name he's calling out to
> that rock, and the wizard sends down this lightning that transforms
> Billy?)
Cap is calling down the lightning that, if it touches him, switches him
back to Billy Batson, but he uses his speed to quickly move out of the way
(as indicated by the art, IIRC) so that the lightning hits Superman.
> Anyway, I've always dug the apocalyptic, large universe stuff,
> including both the old and new Miller Dark Knight stuff, and the Moore
> treatment. I'm finally getting to read Watchmen now as well.
Wonderful.
--
Stephen Morelock
From the Mean Streets of Knoxville, Tennessee
jay
wrote:
> Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after
> reading Alan Moore's Twilight of the
> Superheroes)--pretty good!
One of the great wasted premises in comics
history. The theory behind the last issue seemed
to be "if you don't have an ending, just cobble
together a lot of crap, make it pretty to look at,
and hope no one notices the difference." I don't
remember ever being as disappointed with an
ending as I was with that one.
> Anyway, I've always dug the apocalyptic, large
> universe stuff, including both the old and new
> Miller Dark Knight stuff, and the Moore treatment.
> I'm finally getting to read Watchmen now as well.
All of that stuff is much better than Kingdom Come.
Dragonman
-Mike Cruz
Kirk Is wrote in message ...
Jess Nevins
Kirk Is wrote:
> Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after reading Alan Moore's Twilight
> of the Superheroes)--pretty good! And that interesting painting art
> style...at first I didn't like it but then it seemed really good.
>
> Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere? The trade paperback
> has some notes in the back, and an id guide for the covers, but I was
> wondering if there was a summary with backstory for people who aren't as
> familiar with all that's gone on before...it was tough to know what was a
> new invention for the book, and what a hardcore fan would find familiar.
Yep. My Kingdom Come annotations are at:
http://www.geocities.com/ratmmjess/annos.html
If that site is too busy, try the mirror site at:
http://www.enjolrasworld.com/annotations%202.htm
jess
Cernunnos
"Kirk Is" <kirk...@alienbill.com> wrote in message
news:ZWOG9.356$Y2.1...@news.tufts.edu...
>
> Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after reading Alan Moore's Twilight
> of the Superheroes)--pretty good! And that interesting painting art
> style...at first I didn't like it but then it seemed really good.
>
> Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere? The trade paperback
> has some notes in the back, and an id guide for the covers, but I was
> wondering if there was a summary with backstory for people who aren't as
> familiar with all that's gone on before...it was tough to know what was a
> new invention for the book, and what a hardcore fan would find familiar.
there is a wizard issue which had an excellent panel by panel look at
kingdom come. it really helps with the hidden stuff.
Cernunnos
"Stephen Morelock" <Stephen...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92D8C0EF67B54St...@130.133.1.4...
> Kirk Is <kirk...@alienbill.com> mumbled incoherently in
> news:ZWOG9.356$Y2.1...@news.tufts.edu:
>
> >
> > Hey, just got and read Kingdom Come (after reading Alan Moore's
> > Twilight of the Superheroes)--pretty good! And that interesting
> > painting art style...at first I didn't like it but then it seemed
> > really good.
>
> Hey, where'd you read Twilight and let me get that.
>
> > Anyway, is there a "Cliff Notes" for this anywhere? The trade
> > paperback has some notes in the back, and an id guide for the covers,
> > but I was wondering if there was a summary with backstory for people
> > who aren't as familiar with all that's gone on before...it was tough
> > to know what was a new invention for the book, and what a hardcore fan
> > would find familiar.
>
> I believe there's annotations on Chroma City, but I can't recall the URL.
> Someone else should be able to help here.
Thanks for reminding me, the link to chroma city is
http://www.io.com/~woodward/chroma/
and yes, it does have tha annotations, along with the ones for crisis, which
i just got, and it makes a wonderful companion.
Brian Doyle
> One of the great wasted premises in comics
> history. The theory behind the last issue seemed
> to be "if you don't have an ending, just cobble
> together a lot of crap, make it pretty to look at,
> and hope no one notices the difference." I don't
> remember ever being as disappointed with an
> ending as I was with that one.
>
> > Anyway, I've always dug the apocalyptic, large
> > universe stuff, including both the old and new
> > Miller Dark Knight stuff, and the Moore treatment.
> > I'm finally getting to read Watchmen now as well.
>
> All of that stuff is much better than Kingdom Come.
You think the ending of Watchman is more coherent than Kingdom Come?
Really?
I thought it ruined the whole concept of the series. I can't reveal
anything without spoiling it for Hawkeye, but let's just say when I
read the villains masterplan I had a fit of hysterical giggling and
couldn't take a single thing seriously after that, it was just so
absurd.
I'd actually use your opinion of KC's ending for Watchmen, verbatim.
I thought Kingdom Come had an ending that DID change things and was
more of a beginning than an end, which is what the story deserved. Of
course, then we go "The Kingdom" which ignored most of that ending to
start stuff up again which was irksome more than interesting, but
let's not dwell on that...
And as for DK2, if you can't say something that's even only mildly
scathing, don't say anything at alll...
Johanna Draper Carlson
> I'm curious, was Twilight ever published? If not, how can someone read it?
Web search.
DomDawes
"Shazam!"? Some previous poster described it as calling down the
[transformation?] lightning and ducking out of the way...or did he just
transform back and forth? (Actually I'm a little slow on Captain Marvel in
general...is it a wizard's name he's calling out to that rock, and the wizard
sends down this lightning that transforms Billy?)
He's calling down the lightning, and then moving out of the way at super-speed
to allow the lightning to strike Superman. Magical lightning = bad news for the
magically-vulnerable Supes.
Superman finally grabs a hold of Captain Marvel so he can't run away,and when
the lightning hits Cap it turns him back into Billy Batson.
From the novel adaptation by Elliot S. Maggin...
"Shazam," the Captain whispered, and the thunder sounded and lightning flashed.
But Billy Batson did not appear where Marvel stood; Marvel suddenly stepped
aside, and the lightning struck the furious hero in red and blue."
The novel's available in hardcover and paperback. There's also a cool audiobook
(only on cassette) with a full cast, music, and sound effects in stereo.
-D
El Hubee
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7160/league1.html
"The people down there in the streets, the people that really matter, they look
up to teams like the Titans, and the League. But the Titans, and the League,
they look up to us!"
Jay Garrick(The Flash)-JSA #25
jay
(Brian Doyle) wrote:
>> One of the great wasted premises in comics
>> history. The theory behind the last issue seemed
>> to be "if you don't have an ending, just cobble
>> together a lot of crap, make it pretty to look at,
>> and hope no one notices the difference." I don't
>> remember ever being as disappointed with an
>> ending as I was with that one.
>>
>>> Anyway, I've always dug the apocalyptic, large
>>> universe stuff, including both the old and new
>>> Miller Dark Knight stuff, and the Moore treatment.
>>> I'm finally getting to read Watchmen now as well.
>>
>> All of that stuff is much better than Kingdom Come.
>
> You think the ending of Watchman is more coherent
> than Kingdom Come? Really?
Whatever one thinks of the respective stories, there's
simply no case to be made that the ending of
Watchmen wasn't more coherent than that of KC.
> I thought it ruined the whole concept of the series.
> I can't reveal anything without spoiling it for Hawkeye,
> but let's just say when I read the villains masterplan I
> had a fit of hysterical giggling and couldn't take a
> single thing seriously after that, it was just so absurd.
I had a similar reaction, as did the characters in the
story itself. What followed the unveiling of the master
plan was excellent, though, and the last panel a
stroke of genius. Fiendishly delightful.
> I'd actually use your opinion of KC's ending for
> Watchmen, verbatim.
Watchmen doesn't waste it's premise--the ending
IS the premise.
> I thought Kingdom Come had an ending that DID
> change things and was more of a beginning than
> an end, which is what the story deserved.
We're teased for three issues that there's going to
be some big payoff at the end, and, because Waid
refuses to pull the trigger, no such payoff (or any
payoff at all) ever emerges.
> Of course, then we go "The Kingdom" which
> ignored most of that ending to start stuff up again
> which was irksome more than interesting, but let's
> not dwell on that...
Yeah, the less said about "The Kingdom" the better.
> And as for DK2, if you can't say something that's
> even only mildly scathing, don't say anything at alll...
Still haven't read that one yet.
Brian Doyle
> On 3 Dec 2002 01:57:13 -0800, brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk
> (Brian Doyle) wrote:
> > You think the ending of Watchman is more coherent
> > than Kingdom Come? Really?
>
> Whatever one thinks of the respective stories, there's
> simply no case to be made that the ending of
> Watchmen wasn't more coherent than that of KC.
Oh yes there is, we're heading down that "opinion versus fact" road we've been down
before here.
> I had a similar reaction, as did the characters in the
> story itself. What followed the unveiling of the master
> plan was excellent, though,
The fact that the laughable plot which no one could takle seriously was supposed to
have worked? Yuck!
>and the last panel a stroke of genius. Fiendishly delightful.
Utterly predictable IMHO.
> Watchmen doesn't waste it's premise--the ending
> IS the premise.
So is Kingdom Come.
> > I thought Kingdom Come had an ending that DID
> > change things and was more of a beginning than
> > an end, which is what the story deserved.
>
> We're teased for three issues that there's going to
> be some big payoff at the end, and, because Waid
> refuses to pull the trigger, no such payoff (or any
> payoff at all) ever emerges.
He did pull the trigger and the payoff is pretty damn huge, the Heroic Age ends in a
way that seemed uterly unthinkable, and a new society taking shape because it has to.
> > And as for DK2, if you can't say something that's
> > even only mildly scathing, don't say anything at alll...
>
> Still haven't read that one yet.
Ah, it was your reference to "the new Miller Dark Knight stuff" having a better
ending that threw me.