Perfect Pitch
Richard 55000
someone, ask them to voice middle C (say) and they could voice a note in C.
I said I don't beleive it. I always thought perfect pitch was someone who
could hear a note played on an instrument and they could identify the note,
not that one had the ability to sound a note asked for at any time.
Bernard Hill
55000 <no...@none.com> writes
Two aspects of the same. It's merely a form of memory: I can remember
the sound of a word so can utter it; and can recognise it when others
utter it. People with natural perfect pitch can do both with equal ease.
As a matter of interest I have a measure of perfect pitch which I have
trained myself to do. I can pitch an A by memory (I remember in my mind
the beginning of the greig Piano Concerto and there it is!). By
consequence of that I can then pitch any note. It's very useful for
giving notes to my choir at the beginning of a piece.
However my pitch recognition is not so finely attuned (pun intended :-)
I have to sing the note then say, "that's a D" or whatever, and I can be
wrong a good percentage of the time.
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music Publisher system
Music Software written by musicians for musicians
http://www.braeburn.co.uk
Selkirk, Scotland
01750 21854
+44 1750 21854
Dr.Matt
Both.
People with perfect pitch can do both.
Perfect pitch is not very common, and is not particularly useful.
Whether or not it can be learned is a matter of open investigation...
--
Matthew H. Fields http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a trip to the bathroom."
Richard 55000
"Dr.Matt" <fie...@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:w04M8.1235$kf.3...@news.itd.umich.edu...
> Both.
>
> People with perfect pitch can do both.
>
> Perfect pitch is not very common, and is not particularly useful.
>
> Whether or not it can be learned is a matter of open investigation...
What the difficulty was, is that I came away thinking, (and I could have
sworn she was saying this) that some folks could sound a note without having
experience of what a note sounded like. Like you come up to Joe Bloggs on
the street, who has nothing to do with music and can he gives note you ask
for. It's that which I find ridiculous. I must ask again to see if she is
really saying that.
Hans Aberg
I have a vague memory that one distinguishes between passive and active
perfect (absolute) pitch, the one meaning that one can identify the note,
and the other that one can reproduce it.
Otherwise, perfect pitch is a type of memory usually acquired at such an
early age in life that the person having it does not know how (s)he
acquired it; but in some cases it can be learned later in life by
training. Also, most musical instruments have some degree of pitchbending
capacity, and it then requires that the performer has some limited
knowledge of absolute pitch, even though it is then linked to the musical
instrument in question.
You can check the difference by interval training: Have another person
play two notes in succession, not too far apart (I think one there are
computer programs doing this). Then try to identify the interval:
There are two ways of identifying it, trying to recognize the interval
only, in which case it is "relative pitch". If you, on the other hand, try
to identify the two notes, and then subtract the difference in your mind
by math, then this is absolute pitch. If you have very strong perfect
pitch, then this may be a disadvantage if it is so strong that you do not
hear the relative pitch that most humans prefer and use for musical
communication!
There was a program on BBC on some recent studies of perfect pitch: Then
one had discovered that the human brain uses the same area for absolute
and relative pitch recognition: Namely, a part of the frontal lobe system
used for so called "associative" thinking, meaning an area that sets
labels onto recognized patterns.
There is also an interesting theory on why one can get such a remarkable
memory, because there is in the UK a fellow born with brain damage that
somehow gave him extraordinary musical memory capacities, including
perfect pitch then. The theory is then that in normal human beings, these
more primitive memory patterns are filtered out before they can reach any
higher mental faculties, because normally they are not needed. In some
humans, this recognition filtering system should be different, then.
Thus with the right kinds of brain damage, one should get perfect pitch!
The interesting thing is that one might be able to test such a theory in
practise, because one knows of safe means of temporarily damaging selected
areas of the brain.
Also, one other interesting fact, is that one has not so far been able to
identify a single region in the human brain that is used for music (like
there are regions for say logical thinking, language, etc.): There are
several regions that work together in music recognition, it seems.
Hans Aberg * Anti-spam: remove "remove." from email address.
* Email: Hans Aberg <remove...@member.ams.org>
* Home Page: <http://www.matematik.su.se/~haberg/>
* AMS member listing: <http://www.ams.org/cml/>
Rain Forests
As far as I know, perfect pitch is to be able to recognise a sound in an
absolute manner (that is be able to say that sound is a C or a A, etc.).
I guess that have a perfect pitch may help to voice a sound or a scale, but
it is not necessary.
I don't have a perfect pitch but I often sing in Bflat (for Indian music),
quite automatically, I can voice the Bflat and the all Bflat scale, without
having perfect pitch, but by the grace of practise.
Richard 55000
nothing of the sound of notes but knows what to do when asked to sing a
note, can voice a note as requested. She cites a four year old who does not
know what (say) G is, and can, on being asked to sing a G produce the pitch.
This is before any piano lessons, she was doing ear tests.
Paul Blankinship
no...@none.com wrote on 6/7/02 8:26 AM:
Matt's answer is correct and precise -
There is documentary evidence that there are some non-musical people who
have pitch sensitivity that's the equivalent of musical perfect pitch. (I
seem to recall it had to do with Rolls Royce repairmen who could hear a very
small pitch difference between a perfect idle speed and a slightly high/low
speed where the difference was musically on the order of a couple cents)
But it's ridiculous to think that a person with no exposure to music could
give you anything but a blank stare if you said "sing me a C"
Bernard Hill
ar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> writes
>Whether or not it can be learned is a matter of open investigation...
>
Well anecdotally I can claim it can, up to a point.
As a schoolboy I learned the cello. Obviously I was subjected to the
pitch A which was within my voice range very frequently. (unlike an oboe
A of course). I found I could remember that pitch and sing it reliably.
When I left school I couldn't afford a cello so sadly gave it up. Many
many years later I became director of a choir and noted that I had lost
the ability to sing A on demand.
After singing about 10 years now I find I remember it again. All I have
to do is imagine the start of the Greig Piano Concerto and I'm there to
within a fraction of a tone.
However I can't pitch any other note without working it out from the A.
MaD ComPoSer
After studying the psychology of this in various medical articles etc. Some things come to light:
* it can be learned between the ages of 2 and 11; but after this time period there was not a reported case found in study. It seems
that early development is likely, and that this age period is greater than originally thought.
* it is related to musical training - the more physical, the better chance you can attain it. For example, learning the
violin...where you must touch the string and texturally not only feel the instrument but place the note in the spectrum can help
define this ability.
* it can be learned in part - you can have PP on some notes and not others...for example, some people that have PP used to only play
white note keys as a kid!
* this kind of pavlovian behaviour can apply to other things as well, such as seeing colours and smelling smells for certain notes.
For example, I used to play a coloured toy xylophone as a kid...the G's were brown, and the A's were red, C were yellow. When I
hear these notes today I see these colours sometimes.
* you can loose PP as you get older...it can go out of tune, and not always on the same notes. This drives people that have it
crazy.
Some facts on my experience with it, besides my colour ability, and some of my own conclusions:
- I dream in PP...can hear a piece and recall it weeks later, or compose in a dream...walk over to the piano and play portions of
what I heard on the same pitches w/o making a mistake.
- When I was younger, if I heard a piece of orchestra music I could see it instantly in manuscript form, or see it being played on a
keyboard, and write it down. I use to improvise alot when I was younger, so these above abilities are most directly learned from
that ability.
However any PP ability I had has definately gone down as I have gotten older. I still have the ability to dream PP and write it
down in score form in morning etc, but only retain PP ability in the morning hours - incuding the piano dictation recognition
ability. If I try to recognise pitch in the afternoon, either directly or seeing, I am usually off 1/2 step. And my piano visual
ability is not accurate later in the day.
My conclusions:
* we all have a sense of inherant PP that can be developed when we are young, but after that forget it.
* I believe that RECOGNITION portion of the brain is natural in each of us but is hindered by OTHER signal translation areas of the
brain for example, the sensory translation area where sound is changed into signals for it to be recognized by another portion of
the brain consistantly gives the wrong information. Although we could recognize it easily, the translation to meaningful detail
information is hindered, and therefore we dont recognize it. I believe this is natural because the brain is trying to GENERALIZE
information to save..well...whatever...processing time...information overload...calories...neurons...whatever.
* I believe the left portion of the brain becomes more aggresive during the day and hinders this musical ability (for us right
handers).
I know alot of other people that have PP as well. In my case I see a score, but cannot name notes out of my head as the score or
piano keyboard always presents itself to me first. And I should note that if I hear a door or something non instrumental, I dont
get the same result and have to think a minute to imagine what the note is. My friends that can name them instantly tell me its
pretty annoying when they hear a door out of tune etc, and it can drive them a bit nuts walking around like this.
And, don't tell my friends this, but the composer ones that have it tend to write terribly boring music. why? because they tend to
write 1) tonal pieces that are not very imaginative and are very imitative of common practice or romantic music at best 2) tend to
avoid knarly or creative sonorities that have great interest outside of the maj/min. Their ears are so locked into being perfect
tonal references that their ability to come up with unique and beautiful sounds outside of the diatonic system on their own is
diminished.
BTW, although I have the ability to do these things frm time to time i do NOT think I have PP...just some of the abilities. My
friends who can name everything instantly have it in teh classic sense.
Im glad I do NOT.
The story I came up with is this:
Imagine you are in the jungle and you hear a lion roar or a leopard grown - you can't tell its too general. You run away.
PP musician comes to jungle for the first time and hear's a leopord growl instead of a lion roar..."OH, that's not a lion!" and gets
eaten.
you get the point...sometimes generality wins...
MaD ComPoSer
the same pitch.
how could she possibly know what the word G(ee) is without having been exposed to G(ee) as it relates to the frequency. Your friend
is a liar; or, she has been exposed to it in some other way that he is unaware...including listening to Mozarts symphony in G min a
million times on grannys record player, or her music box, or toy piano, or her favorite song "Gee Gee I like to have tea with a
purple dinosaur" which just happens to be in G major.
Can she sing ALL the notes in the scale?
Hans Aberg
55000" <no...@none.com> wrote:
This is wrongo: The ability to acquire perfect pitch is hardwired into the
brain, but the pitches themselves are learned.
Since one is dealing with so young children, it can be difficult to get to
know exactly how they are acquiring the memory of the pitches. But its in
the environment, clearly, because there is nothing universal with choosing
A4 = 440 Hz, or the 12-equal scale.
Nor are the tone names any universal: So if one finds a young child that
is asked to sing a G and is able to do it, there must somewhere in the
childhood been an association between the name "G" and the pitch.
Hans Aberg
<compo...@hotmail.com_isantispam> wrote:
>My conclusions:
...
>* I believe that RECOGNITION portion of the brain is natural in each of
>I believe this is natural because the brain is trying to GENERALIZE
>information to save..well...whatever...processing time...information
>overload...calories...neurons...
This is one of the contending theories: The brain has a series of filters,
used in order to recognize increasing degrees of abstractions and
generalities. What seems to happen in people with very good memory of
details is that these generality filters are for some reason turned off or
weak relative the more specific information recognized. Such persons then
get the gift of recognizing details, but are loosing the gift of
understanding generalities and abstractions. Perfect pitch arises when the
generality filters turned off (or weak relative the specific information)
are relating to pitch.
This view is supported by the fact that both absolute and relative pitch
engages the same part of the brain, the part of the frontal lobe system
used in associative thinking (putting labels onto recognized patterns):
Evidently, the recognized absolute pitch and relative pitch patterns are
both fed to the same part of the brain. Those individuals that have a
strong bias towards the one or another of these two, probably get a
stronger feed of those patterns they are biased towards.
MaD ComPoSer
pattern (abstraction vs details) also occurs in other areas of my musical and non-musical thinking.
Brent Kerby
investigation...
I just wanted to relate my personal experience of learning perfect pitch as
an adult. Some people say that it is impossible to learn perfect pitch
unless you start very young or have a genetic predisposition. I feel this is
not true, and want to give some encouragement to those who may want to learn
the ability.
My first musical experience was learning to play the piano beginning at
about age 8. Like many pianists, I learned only to read from sheet music; I
did not learn any ear training, improvising, or even basic theory about
chords. Thus, I don't think my childhood was particularly favorable to
learning perfect pitch.
But, at about age 16, I began to be interested in improvising; I started
doing some ear training to learn the sound of intervals and the notes of the
scale (do, re, mi, fa, etc., in a relative sense) ... also learned a lot
about chords and various progressions, and generally did a lot of playing
around on the piano, figuring out how things worked.
Anyway, at about age 18, I wondered whether I had or could learn perfect
pitch. At some point, I did some experimenting to see if I could remember
the sound of a note over a long period. After several attempts, I was
disappointed to find that I could not.
I'd heard "perfect pitch" spoken of as a gift, as if it is something that
you are born with, and cannot learn. Well, that idea struck me wrong and I
was determined to see if I could learn it by brute practice and
determination. I found Nathan Becker's simple program, "Tone Quiz", and
first set it to use just the notes C and D. There were songs I knew that
began on the notes C and D, and I used that to help learn. The program is
thus set up to play randomly either a C or a D (in a variety of octaves, to
help in resisting the temptation to just use relative pitch).
So, over a few days, I probably identified the notes C and D a couple
thousand times, though several sessions. Surprisingly, though, by that time
I could turn the program on and successfully identify the first note fairly
reliably. This was enough evidence for me that it was possible to learn.
Now, it's been about 8 months since I first started to learn; I can now
identify any of the 12 notes quite reliably, provided they are in isolation
(following a melody, especially when there are harmonies, seems a more
difficult task, although I can do it if it's slow enough). Producing a note
is more difficult for me; I can do it, but I am usually out of tune (by as
much as a semitone). But, I suspect these difficulties will go away with
additional practice (although I've been working on this for 8 months, the
practice has been intermittent; some days I would practice for hours, but
again some weeks pass by that I don't practice at all)
So, if there are some of you out there who really would like the ability,
and have some serious time on your hands to practice, then I would very much
recommend that you give it a try. As I said, in my experience, it doesn't
really very long to get a faint grasp on just two notes, and getting even
just that far can be motivating because then you know that at least you
could learn the skill completely, if you wanted to.
I should warn that it can be a frustrating task, though; some days seem
particularly bad (you're wrong very frequently, or have particular trouble
with a certain note), and on the good days you only see at best very subtle
progress. But, I'm generally a slow learner at many things, so perhaps it
will be easier for others.
- Brent Kerby (http://tunes.org/~iepos)
MaD ComPoSer
I think you are wasting your time if you think you will eventually get it. My guess is you are remembering a reference point from
day to day. You can keep trying for enjoyment, but my money is that it will never happen.
Ship...@virgin.co.uk
attributed to orchestra musicians.For instance an orchestra conductor
knows when a violin,viola etc plays a sharp note even in the midst of
a full score.This is perfect pitch in his eyes,and mine,to ask for a
key and for someone to whistle the starting note is not the same thing
and can be done with practice especially with vocalists.If you always
sing a song in three flats it's not hard to reach the starting note if
someone asks you to whistle Eb.It's mainly for orchestra
musicians.thats my opinion.Cheers
On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 14:51:27 +0100, "Richard 55000" <no...@none.com>
wrote:
Hans Aberg
<compo...@hotmail.com_isantispam> wrote:
>> This is one of the contending theories: The brain has a series of filters,
>> used in order to recognize increasing degrees of abstractions and
>> generalities.
>Good thread hans. And, being a border case, I believe that is what is
>happening, and why I seem to shift between the two. This
>pattern (abstraction vs details) also occurs in other areas of my musical
and >non-musical thinking.
The funny thing is that there are a planned experiments for testing such a
theory:
One knows of methods to safely disable selected parts of the brain for a
limited period of time. Thus disabling the right are should give one
certain abilities of details such perfect pitch and being able to draw in
detail (depending on which region selected) etc.
One even has an idea of which regions one should disable, because in some
rare cases of dementia, while their old abilities of generality go away,
people start to develop such startling abilities. One then put them into a
MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) scanner or something, and can check which
regions of the brain that are affected.
Then one can check what happens in perfectly healthy human guinea pigs
what happens when these selected regions are disabled by the temporary
method that admits safe return to normality.
Otherwise, I think that normal human beings are in the need of both: From
the evolutionary point of view, absolute pitch may be used as a part of
identifying the voice as belonging to a certain individual (more so in
tone based languages, like in Chinese), as well as the ability to
recognize the harmonic voice pattern. The relative pitch is then needed in
order to recognize the words of the language, which will be the same, even
though the basic fundamentals of base pitch and base harmonic pattern may
be changed.
Therefore, the human brain in a normal human being may feed both the
simpler patterns and the filtered patterns up to its higher mental
authorities in the frontal lobe system, letting it to decide what should
be important.
This setup seems necessary, because otherwise one cannot explain why
disabling some regions of the brain should increase the capacity in some
respects: The feed from this lower, more unstructured information, must be
present in the brain wire-up.
It strikes me that it might be so that also an older human being might
develop perfect pitch skills, if this person is being put into an
environment for a period of time where there is no use of relative pitch,
but where absolute pitch is crucial for coping with the environment: If
the absolute pitch feed is present but merely ignored by the normally
overflowing, more important, relative pitch feed, that should certainly be
possible.
MaD ComPoSer
What would be interesting is if genetic engineering was refned to a degree where we could pop a pill every day and adjust our
perceptions for 1 dollar...
* * *
MaD ComPoSer
A person with PP can immediately tell you all the notes in a chord at any time, whether they are in tune, and w/o a starting
reference. PLay the most knarly convoluded cluster like chord and they will tell you immediately whats in the chord. When asked
how they know...they will give you a puzzled look and say "I just know".
Walking down the street they will tell you thats a Bb...thats a C#...thats just over Eb by 2 cents...at every noise, rumble and
grumble that they hear.
Conductors know the score inside and out and in a diatonic setting, its not hard to point out a clam.
<Ship...@virgin.co.uk> wrote in message news:3d021b7...@news.freeserve.net...
Ship...@virgin.co.uk
backing artists I can still learn something.Now who can tell me what
is the key and time sig of my mother in laws voice?I want to build a
harmonic frequency generator that matches it so drowning it
out!.Cheers Shipwreck
Hans Aberg
<compo...@hotmail.com_isantispam> wrote:
>UNfortunately, histroy has proven that as we get olders we LOSE the
ability for PP, so perhaps this theory is wrong.
This happens because it isn't easy to turn off the high-level filters.
-- The theory is really that if one succeeds in doing that, turning off
the high-level filters, memory for details should arise. This may or may
not include perfect pitch then.
>What would be interesting is if genetic engineering was refned to a
degree where we could pop a pill every day and adjust our
>perceptions for 1 dollar...
Didn't "The Beatles" use LSD? :-)
MaD ComPoSer
> Didn't "The Beatles" use LSD? :-)
>
> Hans Aberg
They did...but im not sure their results quantified into music =)
Brent Kerby
Not so. When I hear a note, I can immediately identify it, without thinking
about any reference points, even if it has been a week or more since I last
thought about pitches.
> I think you are wasting your time if you think you will eventually get it.
I think already I have "gotten it", to an extent that most people would
consider qualifying as perfect pitch. It's just my pitch sense gets foggy
when there are complex harmonies, or when I'm only thinking of notes in my
head; but already I can see that even this is getting better with practice.
> You can keep trying for enjoyment, but my money is that it will never
happen.
Hmm ... It's puzzling to see such a discouraging perspective. Really, the
pitch sense gets better day by day, given the right kind of practice. It
makes sense, and it is undeniably true in my experience.
- Brent
Tony T. Warnock
with perfect pitch say it's a bit like knowing what color something is
by looking at it.
Hans Aberg
I think that there is a psychological association between absolute pitch
and "color", at least in some indivuals having it, and also in people with
a very strong memory for details (like the fellow with perfect memory).
Jason
anything practical or of value as a musician? For example, can you
quickly transcribe by ear? Or analyze music by ear? Sight sing from
a score? Compose? Improvise? Can you memorize music by ear or by
reading the music more quickly? Does your new sense of pitch affect
your performance on your instrument?
Interested,
Jason
"Brent Kerby" <ie...@tunes.org> wrote in message news:<ug9enga...@corp.supernews.com>...
Brent Kerby
> anything practical or of value as a musician?
This is an interesting question. I initially wanted to learn absolute pitch
hoping that it would help me as a musician. However, it seems that it takes
quite a high level of skill with it (more than I have now) before it really
becomes practically useful. But, I have been able to apply it somewhat. I'll
try to answer this better, using some of your examples ...
> For example, can you quickly transcribe by ear?
Yes, provided the music is simple enough; but, in transcribing I mostly rely
on relative pitch, except for identifying the initial key; also, if the
music has a long or isolated note (like a single bell ringing), I usually
notice the pitch absolutely.
> Sight sing from a score?
Yes (although I sing badly :-)); but, really I mainly rely on relative pitch
here, except for the starting note and key; also, maybe if there are awkward
skips I may try to use absolute pitch; however, for me, absolute pitch still
takes a moment to engage, and for producing a note, it is not very accurate.
> Improvise?
Yes. When, improvising at the piano I can begin on the note I have in my
head, instead of having to find my pitch first. I think really the absolute
pitch could be used much more here, though; I just don't have the habit and
haven't practiced with it enough. By the way, a while back I put up an MP3
of me improvising on the piano, at http://tunes.org/~iepos/solomay6.mp3,
about 25 minutes long. Perhaps you or some others here would enjoy listening
(this particular recording is actually a bit special to me; that night I had
just moved the family piano into a room in which has mostly brick walls, and
tile floor, and plywood ceiling, combining to give very pleasant and live
acoustics, probably the best I have ever played in, although the cheap tape
recorder obscures this a lot).
>Can you memorize music by ear or by reading the music more quickly?
Hmm ... when I memorize melodies, I do that by ear mainly (although this
mainly involves relative pitch); for other parts, I usually memorize the
chords, patterns, and such analytically, by reading the music, I guess you'd
say.
Related to this, though, an interesting side effect that I believe has
stemmed from learning absolute pitch is that if I've listened to a music
recording a several times, I can sometimes later (even weeks later) vividly
recall it (or parts of it), including the pitch and tone of all the
instruments, the acoustics, the tempo, timing, etc. This is something that I
believe has never happened to me prior to starting absolute pitch training.
Well. I hope that answers your question, Jason. Probably this has given you
the impression that perfect pitch is not worth learning, since in my case
its application to practical music is pretty limited. But, I certainly do
not regret the time I've spent learning it; actually, I believe that really
I just need some more practice for the pitch sense to become fully
ingrained, and then it will be more usable.
- Brent
Bernard Hill
<supero...@aol.com> writes
>My question is, have you been able to apply your new sense of pitch to
>anything practical or of value as a musician? For example, can you
>quickly transcribe by ear? Or analyze music by ear? Sight sing from
>a score? Compose? Improvise? Can you memorize music by ear or by
>reading the music more quickly? Does your new sense of pitch affect
>your performance on your instrument?
>
>Interested,
>Jason
Speaking as another who has learned perfect pitch to a small degree, all
the above have not changed. Some I can do, some I cannot, some I can do
in part.
But the one really useful thing to do is to give my choir a starting
note without the instrusive pitch pipe, piano or whatever at the start
of a performance.
That's a about it, speaking personally.
Hans Aberg
supero...@aol.com (Jason) wrote:
>My question is, have you been able to apply your new sense of pitch to
>anything practical or of value as a musician? For example, can you
>quickly transcribe by ear?
This is one of the things that may go the other way with perfect pitch:
If a tune is transcribed, then with strong absolute pitch, it may sound as
a different tune! --- So I recall from somewhere that some musicians with
strong perfect pitch do not like the idea of transcribing at all.
Dan
>I have to sing the note then say, "that's a D" or whatever, and I can be
>wrong a good percentage of the time.
>
Same thing for me. It'd seem perfect pitch is at least partly a matter of
degree.
A few rare people have 100% perfect pitch, while the rest of us musicians make
do with 50-75% (guesstimate).
-Dan
Aaron
Perfect pitch isn't about knowing notes, it's about feeling the
differences in frequencies. It isn't used in a lot of cases to make
notes/voices sound perfect, hell a computer could do that. Detuning
instruments slightly and still making them sound beautiful with
eachother is a true test of perfect pitch. You can't learn perfect
pitch. You can train yourself to a point where it wouldn't really
matter "Good, but imperfect pitch". A friend of mine doesn't have
perfect pitch, but he has great dexterity and a good ear. He can play
guitar very mechanically, but doesn't have perfect pitch to really
feel the music. It's all about *feeling*, not playing, not banging
away on keys and memorizing them. Even though that will help you too.
It's like explaining to a person that's been blind since birth what
the color blue is. You tell them it's like the sky, the ocean etc.
Now that person can effectively decribe the color blue to another
person saying, "yeah blue is like the sky, and the ocean", but have
that person try to mix blue paint on a palette and see what you get.
It's something you have to be born with. Your practices are great
though. I'm not saying you couldn't accomplish great things in music
or anything like that. You would probably be surprised at how many
people have perfect pitch and aren't involved with music in any way.
There's no such thing as strong or weak levels of perfect pitch. It's
either on or it's off. That's like saying, "Oh that car is in weak
perfect condition", no it's either in perfect condition or it's not
perfect. Common sense should tell you that.
Brent Kerby
either in perfect condition or it's not
> perfect. Common sense should tell you that.
It's unfortunate that the term "perfect pitch" is causing confusion again;
it looks like you're using it to mean, literally, a perfect sense of pitch.
However, this is not an acceptable meaning of the term. "Perfect pitch" is
an idiom; it does not refer to a "perfect" sense of pitch, but only to a
sense of pitch that can function without a reference tone. Think of it as
being kind of like the expression "red tape"; we're not really talking about
tape that is literally red. Similarly with "perfect pitch" we are not
normally talking about pitch sense which is perfect. (I think most of us
would admit "perfect pitch" is a poor expression, since it so often leads to
confusion; fortunately it seems like the term "absolute pitch" may be
gaining acceptance)
> It's something you have to be born with.
> [...]
> There's no such thing as strong or weak levels of perfect pitch. It's
either on or it's off.
I think when you realize what the "perfect pitch" is we've been talking
about, you'd realize these statements are false. After all, several of us on
the group just barely testified to having perfect pitch to varying degrees,
and many of us testified to learning it later it life. So you're really
going out on a limb if you seriously think that there are no strong and weak
levels. Also consider what Dan Schmidt says on his web page
(http://www.dfan.org/pitch.html):
"I can't say, 'That's a C, but it's 20 cents sharp,' like some people can.
[...] My pitch sense is very discrete. I basically have twelve buckets, and
every note I hear goes into one bucket. I can get fooled if you give me a
note that's in between pitches."
Now, he has had perfect pitch apparently from birth (he can't remember
learning it), yet he seems to have a relatively weak form of it.
- Brent
Hans Aberg
>> That's like saying, "Oh that car is in weak perfect condition", no it's
>> either in perfect condition or it's not
>> perfect. Common sense should tell you that.
I belive that if you start to buy cars in "perfect condition", then that
is going to be a very realtive concept. :-)
In article <ughjdd5...@corp.supernews.com>, "Brent Kerby"
<ie...@tunes.org> wrote:
>It's unfortunate that the term "perfect pitch" is causing confusion again;
>it looks like you're using it to mean, literally, a perfect sense of pitch.
>However, this is not an acceptable meaning of the term. "Perfect pitch" is
>an idiom; it does not refer to a "perfect" sense of pitch, but only to a
>sense of pitch that can function without a reference tone.
One alternative term in use is "absolute pitch", as opposed to "relative pitch".
To sum it up, people in general have a memory, varying in quality, for
both absolute and relative pitch. If a person has a very good memory for
absolute pitch, then one would call that person having "perfect pitch".
There is something like "perfect memory" too, but it is rare: Like, a
person is asked to memorize some random numbers, and twenty years later,
can recall them. A Russian that had this perfect memory had some traits
similar to that of some persons with perfect pitch, like an association
between pitches and (visual) colors.
The common denominator seems to be that these persons do not have the high
level filtering system that other humans have, and therefore they have a
very good memory for _other_ things than ordinary humans: Many humans have
a very good memory for certain high level things imporant in their lifes
(like, for example, their parents or their children), but do not remember
these low level data, because that is filtered out in the processing
before memorizing.