persian scales
Kelsea_b_Coghnorti
please excuse the lack of proper terms in my msg, its because english
is not my first languange ,ang also because i dont have a proper
musical training.. so..
i started playing an old cello, using these intervals...(from scala
software)
i'm sort of improvising, but i really need some scales for this
system...so if any of you can point me to some http file or even write
down a few persian scales, i'd be grateful
thank you all
/vagelis
interval ratio cents note name description
0 1/1 0.000 C unison, perfect prime
1 256/243 90.225 Db Pythagorean limma
2 27/25 133.238 Dp large limma
3 8/9 203.910 D major whole tone
4 32/27 294.135 Eb Pythagorean minor third
5 243/200 337.148 Ep acute minor third
6 81/64 407.820 E Pythagorean major third
7 3/4 498.045 F perfect fourth
8 25/18 568.717 F> classic augmented fourth
9 36/25 631.283 Gp classic diminished fifth
10 2/3 701.955 G perfect fifth
11 128/81 792.180 Ab Pythagorean minor sixth
12 81/50 835.193 Ap acute minor sixth
13 27/16 905.865 A Pythagorean major sixth
14 9/16 996.090 Bb Pythagorean minor seventh
15 729/400 1.039.103 Bp acute minor seventh
16 243/128 1.109.775 B Pythagorean major seventh
17 2 1.200.000 C octave
M. Schulter
> hello all
> please excuse the lack of proper terms in my msg, its because english
> is not my first languange ,ang also because i dont have a proper
> musical training.. so..
> i started playing an old cello, using these intervals...(from scala
> software)
> i'm sort of improvising, but i really need some scales for this
> system...so if any of you can point me to some http file or even write
> down a few persian scales, i'd be grateful
> thank you all
> /vagelis
Hello, there, and please let me comment first on the Persian scale you
quote from the Scala archive, also give the ratios for a Persian or Arabic
scale from around 1300 called Buzurg.
> interval ratio cents note name description
> 0 1/1 0.000 C unison, perfect prime
> 1 256/243 90.225 Db Pythagorean limma
> 2 27/25 133.238 Dp large limma
> 3 8/9 203.910 D major whole tone
> 4 32/27 294.135 Eb Pythagorean minor third
> 5 243/200 337.148 Ep acute minor third
> 6 81/64 407.820 E Pythagorean major third
> 7 3/4 498.045 F perfect fourth
> 8 25/18 568.717 F> classic augmented fourth
> 9 36/25 631.283 Gp classic diminished fifth
> 10 2/3 701.955 G perfect fifth
> 11 128/81 792.180 Ab Pythagorean minor sixth
> 12 81/50 835.193 Ap acute minor sixth
> 13 27/16 905.865 A Pythagorean major sixth
> 14 9/16 996.090 Bb Pythagorean minor seventh
> 15 729/400 1.039.103 Bp acute minor seventh
> 16 243/128 1.109.775 B Pythagorean major seventh
> 17 2 1.200.000 C octave
This looks like scale based in part on what is called Pythagorean tuning
using a chain of pure fifths and fourths based on factors of 2 and 3 (e.g.
3/2, 4/3, 9/8, 32/27, 243/128), and in part on other ratios, especially
complex ratios with a prime factor of 5 (e.g. 243/200, 25/18, 81/50).
In my own musical style based on mixture of medieval European and
Arabic/Persian elements, I sometimes use some of these same types of
intervals in slightly different tunings: for example, a large minor third
around 17/14 (about 336.13 cents) or 243/200 (337.148 cents, as here).
In practice, with an instrument such as a cello, you are likely to play
intervals differing slightly in size each time, so that a distinction like
that between 17/14 and 243/200 is often mainly theoretical. Either can
make a beautiful interval.
Here's a one version of a type of scale called Buzurg:
! buzurg1.scl
!
Systematist variant of Buzurg in Arabic/Persian tradition (c. 1250-1350)
8
!
14/13
16/13
4/3
56/39
3/2
18/11
21/11
2/1
This is a charming scale from my own curious stylistic viewpoint, and I
suspect one of special beauty for a musician following the medieval
Arabic/Persian styles.
Most appreciatively,
Margo Schulter
msch...@value.net
M. Schulter
gave in my previous article, so as to include the sizes of intervals in
cents (units of 1/1200 octave) as well as the tuning ratios:
|
Systematist variant of Buzurg in Arabic/Persian tradition (c. 1250-1350)
0: 1/1 0.000000 unison, perfect prime
1: 14/13 128.2983 2/3-tone
2: 16/13 359.4725 tridecimal neutral third
3: 4/3 498.0452 perfect fourth
4: 56/39 626.3435
5: 3/2 701.9553 perfect fifth
6: 18/11 852.5924 undecimal neutral sixth
7: 21/11 1119.463
8: 2/1 1200.000 octave
This scale illustrates how the medieval Arabic/Persian tradition uses
ratios based on factors such as 2-3-7-11-13.
Most appreciately,
Margo Schulter
msch...@value.net
Charles-Emmanuel
wrote:
>This is a charming scale from my own curious stylistic viewpoint, and I
>suspect one of special beauty for a musician following the medieval
>Arabic/Persian styles.
>
>Most appreciatively,
>
>Margo Schulter
>msch...@value.net
Mr. Schulter, What do you mean exactly by medieval persian style? After
having made some brief researches on the web, it appears that it could be
Iranian music, is this correct? Don't you know some names or have a selected
discography or whatever ressources to share? I know not much in the genre
but what I have in mind is a dark music with a gothic flavor, maybe with a
spanish influence but there must be a circulation between the styles...
I borrowed some cds at a local media library but it was kind of banal and
I am afraid to go directly to an arab store because they sell mostly modern.
Where can I begin?
David Webber
"Charles-Emmanuel" <char...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mcsmvuojfmrc3uoeo...@4ax.com...
>This is a charming scale from my own curious stylistic viewpoint,
and I
>suspect one of special beauty for a musician following the medieval
>Arabic/Persian styles.
>
>Most appreciatively,
>
> >
> >Margo Schulter
> >msch...@value.net
>==========================
>
> Mr. Schulter,
Mr??????
> What do you mean exactly by medieval persian style? After
> having made some brief researches on the web, it appears that it
could be
> Iranian music, is this correct?
Iran is the modern name for what was formerly known as Persia.
It sounds something of an anachronism calling the mediaeval style
"Iranian" - sort of like referring to Iran as Mesopotamia.
Dave
--
David Webber
Author of MOZART the music processor for Windows -
http://www.mozart.co.uk
Member of the North Cheshire Concert Band
http://www.northcheshire.org.uk
Charles-Emmanuel
wrote:
>
>"Charles-Emmanuel" <char...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:mcsmvuojfmrc3uoeo...@4ax.com...
>
>>This is a charming scale from my own curious stylistic viewpoint,
>and I
>>suspect one of special beauty for a musician following the medieval
>>Arabic/Persian styles.
>>
>>Most appreciatively,
>>
>> >
>> >Margo Schulter
>> >msch...@value.net
>>==========================
>>
>> Mr. Schulter,
>
>Mr??????
>
>> What do you mean exactly by medieval persian style? After
>> having made some brief researches on the web, it appears that it
>could be
>> Iranian music, is this correct?
>
>Iran is the modern name for what was formerly known as Persia.
>
>It sounds something of an anachronism calling the mediaeval style
>"Iranian" - sort of like referring to Iran as Mesopotamia.
>
>Dave
Thanks for this precision. Don't you have any good references?
It was an open question and not addressed to Margo only of course...
Todd Michel McComb
Charles-Emmanuel <char...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks for this precision.
The relationship of the words Persian and Iranian is a politically
charged one.
>Don't you have any good references? It was an open question and
>not addressed to Margo only of course...
If you are interested in recordings, I have listed several as a
prospective introduction:
http://www.medieval.org/music/world/iran.html
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
David Webber
Sorry no, I am no expert in this kind of music - I was just
confirming your conclusion abiout the identity of Iran/Persia which
is quite a general question. And suggesting, in my round about way,
that you may have more success with web searches for old music under
"Persian" than "Iranian".
And I apologise for my *lack* of precision in the last phrase which
should of course have read "sort of like referring to Iraq as
Mesopotamia" - silly me (only 1 byte out). :-)
All these countries keep changing their names very inconveniently -
not that I should complain "UK" is a fairly new name! My atlas
still has half the world coloured pink, and has countres like
Nyassaland and Bechuanaland - but a little bird tells me that Santa
might bring me a new one for Christmas if I'm good :-)
Tony T. Warnock
Tony T. Warnock
Charles-Emmanuel
It's interesting to note that there is no real distinction between medieval and
classical music in the tradition of those countries. The link with indian music
is also made apparent with the sharing of instruments and the mode-pattern
paradigm. Great starting point. Thanks.
Charles-Emmanuel
wrote:
Yes, the word Persian has a kind of appealing aura but in libraries
"world music" is often classified by country.
>
>And I apologise for my *lack* of precision in the last phrase which
>should of course have read "sort of like referring to Iraq as
>Mesopotamia" - silly me (only 1 byte out). :-)
>
>All these countries keep changing their names very inconveniently -
>not that I should complain "UK" is a fairly new name! My atlas
>still has half the world coloured pink, and has countres like
>Nyassaland and Bechuanaland - but a little bird tells me that Santa
>might bring me a new one for Christmas if I'm good :-)
Always good to have a good paper edition ;)
>
>Dave
Todd Michel McComb
Charles-Emmanuel <char...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It's interesting to note that there is no real distinction between
>medieval and classical music in the tradition of those countries.
Some continuity with the classical era is generally claimed, and
generally accepted. However, the main issue in establishing
distinctions is the relative lack of information and scholarship.
I'd advise against drawing firm conclusions there.
Todd McComb
mcc...@medieval.org
the_mouse
extremely theoretical. I see you have a lot of ratios and fractions
listed, which I confess I know little about. Does anyone know of any
good links where this is explained in not extremely complicated terms?
Also I'm wondering how you can get the exact pitches you list. A
computer I presume? How does that work?
excuse my curousity, but I'm....curious! :D
"squeak"
Nigel Horne
bibliography that may also give you some pointers.
-Nigel
--
Nigel Horne. Arranger, Composer, Conductor, Typesetter.
NJH Music, Barnsley, UK. ICQ#20252325
n...@bandsman.co.uk http://www.bandsman.co.uk