RotK poster
Jamie Armstrong
know how though!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/pictures/galleries/newsid_3028000/3028484.stm
Jamie
--
"The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; and
every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human
characters, and of the little dependence that can be placed on the
appearance of either merit or sense."
Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice
Johanna Katariina Rinne
: So Aragorn will definitely get Anduril at some point. I'd still like to
: know how though!
: http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/pictures/galleries/newsid_3028000/3028484.stm
Well, Arwen returns to Rivendell, forges the sword back together, writes
all the spells in it, then rides to meet Aragorn somewhere and joins with
him on the paths of the dead and rescues his life in the battle around
Minas Tirith. That if the film keeps up it's loyalty to the book.
--
Johanna Rinne
I breathe fire, therefore I am a dragon.
*
* ***
| * *****
* 6 |******
*_ /
Jette Goldie
"Johanna Katariina Rinne" <f76...@majakka.uwasa.fi> wrote in message
news:bdovmo$tl4$4...@haavi.uwasa.fi...
> Jamie Armstrong <j.d.ar...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> : So Aragorn will definitely get Anduril at some point. I'd still like to
> : know how though!
>
> :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/pictures/galleries/newsid_3028000/3028484.stm
>
>
> Well, Arwen returns to Rivendell, forges the sword back together, writes
> all the spells in it, then rides to meet Aragorn somewhere and joins with
> him on the paths of the dead and rescues his life in the battle around
> Minas Tirith. That if the film keeps up it's loyalty to the book.
Considering that Tolkien himself decided sort of at the
last moment to make Arwen into Aragorn's bride, then
found he couldn't write her into the story so it had to all
go in the appendices.... perhaps we can say PJ is merely
doing what Tolkien *might* have done, if he'd thought
of it sooner?
--
Jette
"Work for Peace and remain Fiercely Loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
Johanna Katariina Rinne
: "Johanna Katariina Rinne" <f76...@majakka.uwasa.fi> wrote in message
: news:bdovmo$tl4$4...@haavi.uwasa.fi...
:> Jamie Armstrong <j.d.ar...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
:> : So Aragorn will definitely get Anduril at some point. I'd still like to
:> : know how though!
:> Well, Arwen returns to Rivendell, forges the sword back together, writes
:> all the spells in it, then rides to meet Aragorn somewhere and joins with
:> him on the paths of the dead and rescues his life in the battle around
:> Minas Tirith. That if the film keeps up it's loyalty to the book.
: Considering that Tolkien himself decided sort of at the
: last moment to make Arwen into Aragorn's bride, then
: found he couldn't write her into the story so it had to all
: go in the appendices.... perhaps we can say PJ is merely
: doing what Tolkien *might* have done, if he'd thought
: of it sooner?
Maybe I chose wrong character to criticise the film. Actually, I like the
way Arwen has been portrayed. I was trying to refer to the general feeling of
untolkienism in the films and especially in TT.
I can understand that when one is turning a book into a motion picture, one
has to take shortcuts 'to the mushrooms'. But I would have preferred a bit
more loyal portrayal of at least Faramir, Galadriel and Elrond.
As far as the plot goes, the love of Arwen and Aragorn is in the background of
LotR, as well as Sarumans betrayal. So I'm fine with them being included in
the films. But Haldir & co showing up at Helm's Deep, Galadriel being only
scary and not lovely, and walking with Gollum in a broad daylight... Just
my opinion, but it goes too far away from the original plot.
Another opinion: The films are pretty. The crew did lots of research and
worked very hard to make backrounds and artefacts and costumes to give a
feeling of different cultures in different places and different ages. Too
bad the plot wasn't treated with the same amount of pedanticism.
Jamie Armstrong
> Jette Goldie <j...@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote:
> : "Johanna Katariina Rinne" <f76...@majakka.uwasa.fi> wrote in message
> : news:bdovmo$tl4$4...@haavi.uwasa.fi...
> :> Jamie Armstrong <j.d.ar...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> :> : So Aragorn will definitely get Anduril at some point. I'd still like to
> :> : know how though!
>
> :> Well, Arwen returns to Rivendell, forges the sword back together, writes
> :> all the spells in it, then rides to meet Aragorn somewhere and joins with
> :> him on the paths of the dead and rescues his life in the battle around
> :> Minas Tirith. That if the film keeps up it's loyalty to the book.
>
> : Considering that Tolkien himself decided sort of at the
> : last moment to make Arwen into Aragorn's bride, then
> : found he couldn't write her into the story so it had to all
> : go in the appendices.... perhaps we can say PJ is merely
> : doing what Tolkien *might* have done, if he'd thought
> : of it sooner?
>
> Maybe I chose wrong character to criticise the film. Actually, I like the
> way Arwen has been portrayed.
Huh! I was ranting about this in the pub last night: the friend I was
ranting to kept glazing over, for some unaccountable reason...
> I was trying to refer to the general feeling of
> untolkienism in the films and especially in TT.
>
I say TT was closer to the text than FotR, if you ignore the scenes that
were *added* to both, and simply look at the way each film was
'adapted'. IMO the changes to FotR were done much more badly and had a
much worse impact on the overall integrity of the story than those made
in TT.
Morgil
"Jamie Armstrong" <j.d.ar...@durham.ac.uk> kirjoitti
viestissä:3F02CF6B...@durham.ac.uk...
> Johanna Katariina Rinne wrote:
> > I was trying to refer to the general feeling of
> > untolkienism in the films and especially in TT.
> >
> I say TT was closer to the text than FotR, if you ignore the scenes that
> were *added* to both, and simply look at the way each film was
> 'adapted'. IMO the changes to FotR were done much more badly and had a
> much worse impact on the overall integrity of the story than those made
> in TT.
I would disagree. There is nothing as bad as Faramir,
doomsday-Elrond, Theoden, sleepwalker-Frodo etc.
in FotR...
On general level, I think the difference between FotR and
TT is that FotR is overall quite 'episodical'. So if you had
one episode that sucked, you could skip over it and go to
the next episode that was again well done. Whereas in TT
you got 3-4 crossing story lines, and as soon as they start
to go wrong, it causes a sort of chain reaction of where
there's no coming back even if some parts would have
been done with more integrity...
Morgil
Conrad Dunkerson
> I can understand that when one is turning a book into a motion picture, one
> has to take shortcuts 'to the mushrooms'. But I would have preferred a bit
> more loyal portrayal of at least Faramir, Galadriel and Elrond.
Galadriel comes out better in the extended DVD and apparently Faramir
will get some better treatment in the TT extended version. These
movies are very odd in that they seem to be viewing the extended DVD
versions as 'official' and the theatrical versions as some sort of
'shortened format'. If you haven't seen the extended FotR there are
gonna be all kinds of continuity problems in the next two movies
because (for example) they cut out most of Galadriel's gifts in the
theatrical version... but all the characters have them for the
remainder of the story anyway.
> Another opinion: The films are pretty. The crew did lots of research and
> worked very hard to make backrounds and artefacts and costumes to give a
> feeling of different cultures in different places and different ages. Too
> bad the plot wasn't treated with the same amount of pedanticism.
The plot and especially the characters. I listened to the
commentaries on the DVDs and it seemed clear that Jackson and co had a
general knowledge of the books, but did not know alot of the details.
They paid alot more attention to making it look 'middle earthish' than
they did to the story itself. Still, even TT was better than I had
expected them to do.
Johanna Katariina Rinne
: Galadriel comes out better in the extended DVD and apparently Faramir
: will get some better treatment in the TT extended version. These
: movies are very odd in that they seem to be viewing the extended DVD
: versions as 'official' and the theatrical versions as some sort of
: 'shortened format'.
Maybe I should try to get them. I haven't seen them in the stores of my
hometown, but then again, I haven't been looking that hard either.
If you haven't seen the extended FotR there are
: gonna be all kinds of continuity problems in the next two movies
: because (for example) they cut out most of Galadriel's gifts in the
: theatrical version... but all the characters have them for the
: remainder of the story anyway.
That won't make it difficult for me to stay along with the plot, as I have
at least read the book. Though I must admit that it felt odd to see Sam and
Frodo under the elvencloak in TT, when there had been no mentioning of it
prior the very moment that they needed it. It is something that occasionally
happens in children's books: just when the heroes are in deep trouble,
somebody remembers that "hey, when we left the house in a hurry I happened
to take this with me" an behold! they are rescued from the situation.
(Thinking about it, Sam and the elvenrope at Emy Muil could be this sort
of thing. Don't have the book here with me, so I can't check. But it is
the only one I can think of, so...)
: They paid alot more attention to making it look 'middle earthish' than
: they did to the story itself. Still, even TT was better than I had
: expected them to do.
On their own the films are really good. They start to look bad only when
compared to the book. But then again, so do most filmatisations of books.
Troels Forchhammer
>
> Galadriel comes out better in the extended DVD and apparently Faramir
> will get some better treatment in the TT extended version. These
> movies are very odd in that they seem to be viewing the extended DVD
> versions as 'official' and the theatrical versions as some sort of
> 'shortened format'.
The cynical might get the impression that one of the reasons for the
late release of the extended DVD is that they're looking at what way
the fan critique is pointing. IIRC the extended DVD of FOTR essentially
addressed the worst points of the criticism - more of the Shire, Frodo
was played up, Galadriel was much improved etc.
If the same happens with TT, I might start getting suspicious (not that
I think it would be a bad thing - I think it would add to my perception
of Jackson if it is done this way).
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is t.forch(a)mail.dk
"You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image
when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
-- Anne Lamott