Welder, is a 110volt good enough?
Dacaur
if a 110volt job will do? I don't plan on doing anything serious like roll
cages, but would like to do a muffler, possibly shock mounts (kill the bar
pin) and I'm planning to do a roof top spare tire carrier.... Is a 110 volt
welder good enough for these jobs? what kind of jobs are to serious for a
110 volt welder?
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JustRichie
its limtations. 3/16 plate takes a good fillet and some practice to get a good
weld. Forget a consistantly good weld on 1/4 inch. I learned to weld with an
old 220 volt buzzbox and I miss the ability to push a stick all the way to the
bottom of a piece of steel. All and all I feel I have outgrown my 135 and wish
I had bought a 220V unit.
Rich
1997 TJ with Sprinkles
http://members.aol.com/justrichie/jeep/index.htm <--Updated 12/20/01
I'm an Environmentalist.
People against off road vehicles are Anti-Recreationalists.
Nathan W. Collier
news:3d8fd...@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com...
> what kind of jobs are to serious for a
> 110 volt welder?
obviously bumpers, hitches, spring perches, roll cages, and anything
_critical_ that requires deep penetration. your level of skill can make up
for a larger machine to a point. so long as you limit yourself to non
critical projects, a 120v welder will probably do the job for you. that
said, unless money is really tight id say go for the larger machine. its
great to have it around if you need it.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://StreetPony.com
http://HardcoreATV.com
Get y...@StreetPony.com email free!
Cherokee-Ltd
I would consider a 110 volt mig welder (non gas flux core type) for light
jobs... bodywork, exhaust... thin gauge (14-22). I don't think I'd waste
money on a 110 arc welder if for nothing else, it's intended use on thick
gauge high penetration welds.
But then again, I'm not a welder.
-Brian
--
=================================
Project "Roger" - '92 Cherokee Ltd
http://members.rogers.com/cherokee-ltd/
It's a work in progress...lot's of tech info
=================================
"Dacaur" <dac...@SAYSGOAWAYEVILSPAMMERdacaur.com> wrote in message
news:3d8fd...@corp-goliath.newsgroups.com...
Quigley
sites as a matter of safety. Volts mean nothing, it's down to the particular
welding set and the transformer.
"Cherokee-Ltd" <spam...@home.com> wrote in message
news:veVj9.96195$8b1....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Nathan W. Collier
news:3d905f24$0$18875$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> In the UK all power tools and caddy welders run on 110 volt on constuction
> sites as a matter of safety. Volts mean nothing, it's down to the
particular
> welding set and the transformer.
in the US, 110v welding machines dont burn hot enough to penetrate much
beyond 11ga. or so.
Earle Horton
takes multiple passes and experience, but you can make a good joint out of
it if you know what you are doing. That said, I wouldn't want to weld a
joint more than a couple inches long with one.
"Nathan W. Collier" <hav...@streetpony.com> wrote in message
news:jx%j9.41874$Wa.22...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Nathan W. Collier
news:amqpii$89mqv$1...@ID-147790.news.dfncis.de...
> You can weld 1/4" inch steel with a 110 volt U. S. wire feed welder. It
> takes multiple passes and experience, but you can make a good joint out of
> it if you know what you are doing. That said, I wouldn't want to weld a
> joint more than a couple inches long with one.
keep in mind that multiple passes increase surface contact only. multiple
passes have no effect on ensuring adequate penetration so while it will be
fine for non-critical welds, youll still need a bigger machine for anything
critical.
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
CJ-2A frame, and thought I'd feather it out a little, well the welds
drew together and bowed the frame and I had to start all over.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:LWHug...@aol.com http://www.billhughes.com/
Roy Jenson
the underpowered welder and get a good joint. In theory anyway.
In practice, we normaly just use a high penetration rod type or
set the MIG for high penetration and ignore the joint prep. When
you try to do it with a small welder, you need to be able to run
multiple passes of perfect welds, no voids or inclustions. Pretty
tough to do for a novice weldor or a less than perfect flux core
welder.
Roy Jenson
volt jobs. That is true but it is not the big headache for
critical welds like rollbars.
The big problem with the cheap welders is that the arc is hard to
control, not very stable, and generally does not make a good
bead. A 110volt MIG or stick welder has enough pure power to weld
3/16" stock providing you have good weld prep (nice 'V' shape)
But the consistencuy of the welds is terrible. And try to use it
on very thin stock and you have gob for beads when you don't burn
through.
I have a 110 volt MIG unit running flux core wire. I would NEVER
consider using it to work on either thin material like body work
or thick stuff like bumpers when I'm working in the shop. I'd
either use my AC stick welder or take it to school and use the
big Miller or Century MIG outfits. But the little one sure works
nice on a 4 kw genset out in the middle of nowhere. Teamed with a
4"grinder, race car or Jeep repairs get done quickly. (Just don't
run them both at the same time!)
If I had to choose only one: first choice for shop use is a 220
volt Lincoln 'tombstone' stick welder for $225. First choice for
field work is one of the 120 volt flux core MIG units for $150 to
$200 or so.
Cheers.
Nathan W. Collier
news:3D912776...@qwest.net...
> Not true, with proper joint prep and a good welder, you can use
> the underpowered welder and get a good joint. In theory anyway.
roy,
i dont see a novice (that would ask the question to begin with) being
capable of critical welds on thick material with an underpowered machine.
even with a certified welder, i dont see someone being able to weld 3/8"
bumper mounts with a typical 110v welder that will be able to withstand any
type of real impact because the penetration just isnt there. can you get a
"good" weld? sure. can you get a "strong" weld? sure. can you get one
strong ENOUGH for critical duty (the only thing i have called into question
here)? i dont see it.
Nathan W. Collier
> First choice for
> field work is one of the 120 volt flux core MIG units
thats an interesting choice for a field unit. i realize flux core is more
forgiving than a MIG on improperly prepped joints (such as you would run
into in the field), but SMAW would still/always be my first choice for field
work.
aliasme
*shut up butthead!* *slap bonk*
AC/DC RULES!
uh, i mean JEEP RULES!
tim..takin a break from the real world. i already did my boyscout thang fer
tha day
"Nathan W. Collier" <hav...@streetpony.com> wrote in message
news:4W9k9.39890$jF4.3...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
because the penetration just isnt there. i dont see it.
Roy Jenson
on the usefulness scale than the 110volt MIG units. Add to that
the fact that there are more folks who can use a MIG than can use
a stick.
I have some 3/32" 6011 rod that runs very nicely on about 60
amps. Good penetration on rusty or oily surfaces. As you say,
this would be ideal for field repair. I also have a very limited
supply of some 1/16" rod, unknown spec, that runs nicely at 30 to
40 amps. This stuff is so small that you have to watch it even on
thin body metal, you can get cold joints with no penetration.
Roy Jenson
the only way to get good welds. For the novice it may give you a
feeling of accomplishment but it doesn't necessarily make for
good welds. Washing the puddle around in a properly prepared
joint gives all the penetration needed. Plus adding all that heat
at once can warp the daylights out of things.
Just for the record, all the high pressure pipeline welds are
done with multiple passes, somewhere between 3 and 6 passes
depending on the wall thickness.
My point being, for something critical like a motor mount, proper
prep along with reasonable skill is necessary. Blasting it with
high amperage, blowing through, and fixing it is not the way to
go.
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
I've seen the test results for welding upside down on a quarter inch
plate done at a trade school, it was done in one pass, the puddle droop
about twice the thickness. I wish I could do that. Anyway, there would
be no reason to make another pass, except, maybe to blow off some of the
excess to make it look pretty.
L.W.(Bill) Hughes III
Nathan W. Collier
> I'd agree but the available 110volt stick welders are even lower
> on the usefulness scale than the 110volt MIG units.
but since we're talking about our personal preferences, i would never buy a
110v machine anyway.
Nathan W. Collier
> I just don't buy into the 'burn it in hard and deep' philosphy as
> the only way to get good welds.
neither do i. but i dont believe a 110v machine is capable of enough
penetration for building things like trailer hitches and bumpers that will
withstand impacts and collisions.
> For the novice it may give you a
> feeling of accomplishment but it doesn't necessarily make for
> good welds.
im aws unlimited with north carolina bridge attachments (though not
current).
> Plus adding all that heat
> at once can warp the daylights out of things.
now youre talking about putting down to much to quickly. im working under
the basic guidelines that the welder knows what he's doing. are you
suggesting that a 110v machine would be preferred for thicker materials
because a larger machine can warp your base metal if done improperly?
> Just for the record, all the high pressure pipeline welds are
> done with multiple passes, somewhere between 3 and 6 passes
> depending on the wall thickness.
what type of high pressure pipeline welds are you referencing? years ago i
had a gas (and steam) line contract on ft. bragg. specs called for a single
pass w/ a 5/32 alloy rod (although i dont recall the exact alloy today).
> My point being, for something critical like a motor mount, proper
> prep along with reasonable skill is necessary. Blasting it with
> high amperage, blowing through, and fixing it is not the way to
> go.
and i agree too but youre equating what i said concerning _proper_
penetration with "blasting it" and im not referencing over-doing it.
Ric
welding course, the instructor was a certified Pressure welder and he
instructed us on multiple passes and this is on a 220 volt commercial
welders, this is on 1/4 inch and thicker and you grind the two pieces on a
Land ( on an angle ) and fill it in on multiple passes, remember to clean
any slag between passes. The next issue is the type of rod you use, the
6011 is a hard one to weld but it is strong you have to know a little
mettalegery ( metal strengths ) So even if you can weld your Roll Bar and it
looks nice because you picked an easy rod to weld with, It may be a week
link. I myself would go for a 110 volt wire feed but go with multiple
passes. Also to stop warping spot weld it in a few places, my instructor
also said with multiple passes back and forth building it up controls it a
bit.
Ric
"Roy Jenson" <rkje...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3D91F6F3...@qwest.net...
Roy Jenson
Nathan W. Collier
> But that was the subject of this message string!
agreed.....but when talking about your personal preference or my personal
preference, its no longer limited to the subject of the thread.
Roy Jenson
For the novice and inexperienced welder, MIG works better than
stick, 220 volt welders work better than 110v welders, one pass
welding is better than multipass welding, enough heat to achieve
penetration without good weld prep is better, etc etc.
For pro welders you can ignore every rule above and still get
x-ray quality welds (except the weld prep) On a good day I can do
perfectly good Jeep critical parts like motor mounts with a junky
underpowered 110volt stick OR mig. (Bad days I chalk up to old
age!) Penetration requires high heat but good adhesion and
admixture of base material and filler does not. And warpage can
bite anytime.
So: A novice welder is unlikely to do good work with a
underpowered unit. A pro can do it if he pays attention to
things. Both would benefit from the good equipment, one can get
by with the cheap stuff.
In the meantime I have 2 AC stick units (240 volt), one el cheapo
MIG using flux core, and the oxy-acet at home, and 2 nice 240
volt MIG units at school with a TIG unit in the budget. And my
students did just fine in this year's SAE Mini-Baja off road
competion. They survived the 4 hour endurance race with no weld
or equipment failure. (Not counting having another car land on
top of the rear, bending the axle, replaced during the race)
For what its worth, I have Engineering students (but novice
welders) do full tensile test of their welds using a computer
controlled testing system. A few can actually get their test
pieces up to the tensile specs of the filler wire or rod. Welder
skill beats equipment every day.
Cheers.
Jerry Bransford
bumpers. What is your opinion as to the safety of doing that? I won't
tell you my opinion, I'd rather get your unbiased opinion.
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL KC6TAY
The Zen Hotdog... make me one with everything!
Geezer Jeep: http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/gallery/JBransfordsTJ/
Nathan W. Collier
> So: A novice welder is unlikely to do good work with a
> underpowered unit. A pro can do it if he pays attention to
> things. Both would benefit from the good equipment, one can get
> by with the cheap stuff.
i still wouldnt feel totally comfortable welding up a class 3 trailer hitch
with a 110v unit, but we're basically in total agreement.
THAT SAID, i have a question that maybe youve seen before. i have a miller
bobcat 225g (150 hours on the machine) mounted on a trailer. one of the
rear motor mounts has broken in half (due to one of my former employees
speeding across railroad tracks, rider said the trailer left the ground 3
feet). the motor mount is part of the actual block casting so theres no way
to replace the mount itself. ive mig'd it, the repair lasted less than 20
miles. i ground it, prepped it, and tig'd it but that repair also failed.
i took it to an aluminum specialist who tig'd it, that repair failed.
miller says for me to replace the block but thats ridiculous to me on a
machine with only 150 hours. MY solution is to build a front bracket to
support the front two engine mounts that are currently just hanging there
attached to nothing. the bracket would weld to the sides of the lower
frame. im a little hesitant to weld to the side frame casing itself because
the fuel tank is directly behind it. i had thought about siphoning all the
fuel out and overfilling the tank with water to ensure all the fuel is gone.
after im done, i figure i could get the water out of the tank with a wet
vac. does this sound like a good plan or would there be a better way?
thanks,
Mike Romain
welder will do what you want quite fine.
I have one and it does the jobs I need nicely.
I have a free standing rad with a flip front and made a frame for it
with an old bed frame. Mine welded that up sweet and welded the frame
to my jeep frame nicely. 2 years and bouncing... I only made an L
shape, no brace.
I have done a pile of body metal thickness work with it.
If I crank it up full, I can cut body metal with it.
I also am planning on making my own gas tank skid plate soon with it
using 3/16" sheet with 1/8" angle iron corners and runners.
I have had one crack, and now have another in my frame and I personally
won't take my 'baby' welder to my frame.
I had a pro fix the first crack with a large 'real' MIG and he did an
excellent job. I have another pro with a 220 stick, and he has welded
plates onto rotten frames without the slightest trace of a burn through.
For odd jobs and body work, the 110 units work well. It takes some
practice, so I always use some junk stock to 'play' with before I go for
it.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
George Jefferson
:Yes, a 110V flux core wire feed (MIG, sort of, people call it that)
:welder will do what you want quite fine.
of course you can get an "actual" inert gas MIG in 110 v as well. Now I
have to wonder if all the opinions about 110MIG welder were really
refering to the not-really-mig type.
aliasme
when welding near a gas tank, my dad has alsways said to fill the
tank with gas. FULL. and make sure the cap isnt being welded
near, because its not the gas itself that burns, its the fumes, vapors.
full tank means no vapors.
now, i dont weld, but that kinda makes sense. but it scares the crap
out of me at the same time.
thoughts on this?
"Nathan W. Collier" <hav...@streetpony.com> wrote in message
news:4Swk9.40966$jF4.3...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Jerry Bransford
only burns.
Jerry
--
Nathan W. Collier
news:3fMk9.220089$Jo.87056@rwcrnsc53...
> thoughts on this?
your dad is exactly right. when welding on or near a fuel tank it either
needs to be TOTALLY full, or TOTALLY empty. either way prevents a buildup
of fumes. the problem (and reason for my question to roy) is that in this
case, the fuel tank is plastic and rests directly against the case that i
would be welding to. thats why im concerned. its not as much about blowing
up as it is about melting a hole in my fuel tank.
Roy Jenson
Assuming we are talking about the average Jeep bumper (my YJ
bumper is .134" formed steel) the thickness is not very large
compared to the load you can put on it with a good sized D ring.
It will likely badly deform the bumper near the ring the first
time you pull. The next problem is that the structual strength on
the bumper is not great (how many STRAIGHT YJ bumpers have you
seen??) so the whole bumper is likely to give.
Ok, off to the weld. If you use the D-ring with the captive
strap, weld the strap, is the best. If you try to weld a solid D
ring with no strap you have a problem getting a weld from a large
round to a thin flat, not likely to be a good weld. Also, any off
center load will bend the daylights out of the bumper as it
twists things.
Only way I'd do that on the front of the Jeep is to make a 'U'
piece of 3/8" or better stock that goes over the bumper and uses
the 4 exisitng bumper bolt holes and longer bolts. weld your D
ring strap to that bracket.
On the rear, all the bolts are in tension on the !@@##$#@! thin
crossmemeber. No way you can get anything strong enough to get a
good pull. On mine, I have a small body lift that gives me a bit
of clearance between the frame and the body. I drilled all the
way through, made a 'U' bracket that goes on top and bottom of
the frame, used a 1/2" x 6" bolt to tie things in. Plus all 8
holes from the bumperettes.
Short answer: no.
Cheers.
aliasme
tim
"Nathan W. Collier" <hav...@streetpony.com> wrote in message
news:PyNk9.67561$ip3.3...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Roy Jenson
tool freak. He started with a 110v flux core,didn't like it,
added the inert gas, didn't like it, got a better unit with gas,
didn't like it, popped for a 220volt cheaper mig, didn't like it.
But I got to try all of them on the way by.
Once you get to the $400+ range, with gas and dial adustable
voltage, they are reasonable but not really what you want for
heavier stock like trailer hitches. But like anything, you need
to spend the time to get the skill set.
Roy Jenson
Take this one off line, send me some pictures or post some
somewhere I can look at them. Not quite sure if I can visualize
it exactly.
Nathan W. Collier
> Nathan
> Take this one off line, send me some pictures or post some
> somewhere I can look at them. Not quite sure if I can visualize
> it exactly.
sounds good, though it will take a few days to get pics and get them
developed, etc.
J5
fill it with dry ice. The C02 from the evaporating ice displaces the gas so
all you have left is a non-explosive C02.
j5
--
J5's jeep page at http://www.users.qwest.net/~j5/
"aliasme" <dor...@attbi.spam.com> wrote in message
news:3fMk9.220089$Jo.87056@rwcrnsc53...
Paul R. Johnson
pressure vessels. Anyway, we got in to making "Mobile Modular Prison
Units." Basically big steel trailer. I used a miller 110v welder to
weld the walls to the studs and the studs together. They held up
well. The studs were 3/16 thick and the wall were 10 ga I think. Now
image building an all metal trailer in the south georgia summer. It
was like standing in a frying pan. I decided that we should have
shipped them out like that with no roof and metal walls and floor.
Alas, they ended up with sheetrock, a/c and cable tv. Prisoners sure
have it good.
Paul
On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:57:18 -0400, Mike Romain <rom...@sympatico.ca>
wrote: