Stockhausen v Aphex Twin at the Festival Hall
Brian Lee
I want to tell you about a concert I went to at the Royal Festival
Hall London tonight (Saturday 8th March). The London Sinfonietta
playing contemporary classical masters (Nancarrow, Cage, Ligeti, Ives
and Stockhausen) interspersed with pieces from groups/individuals from
the Warp label - Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada and Squarepusher -
arranged for orchestra. The audience was more on the Warp side than
the contemporary classical side judging from the cheers that went up
when one of their side came on. Yes, it felt like a contest of two
sides in some ways. In other ways it was a genuine sharing. Obviously
the Warp folk (I'm saying it like that because I'm completely out of
touch with the current names for genres - ambient is dead now isn't
it, drum and bass I seem to remember) have learned a lot from the
pioneers of treating sound as sound and making beautiful, strange
exciting things happen with it.
The Nancarrow was an orchestration of a player piano piece.
The Ligeti was the Chamber Concerto.
The Stockhausen was Spiral for Saxophone(s) and short wave radio.
The Ives was (inevitably) the Unanswered Question.
Cage's contribution was pieces from the Sonatas and Interludes for
prepared piano (I've never seen/heard a prepared piano live before and
the theatrical impact of a guy in a suit sitting down to play at what
looks like an ordinary piano and you've got these expectations of how
it will sound and then these amazing gamelan type noises come out!)
The pieces were accompanied by visual projections - video art type
things, some of which looked a bit like they came from an art college
with too much equipment and just got in the way of the music (I shut
my eyes a lot). But they got the Stockhausen just right. Good sound
projection, tape delay on the sax and hypnotic spacey visuals.
OK, as you can tell I'm more familiar with the contemporary classical
side and I doubt if I'll be rushing out to buy anything by Aphex Twin.
But it was certainly a stimulating and involving experience all round
that I'm sure busted categories for a lot of the audience.
Brian
Eugene Leung
Concerto, although the video accompanying the Poeme symphonique upon
entrance was a nice touch) were undoubtedly the highlights of the concerts,
closely followed by the Warp Videos. The Warp orchestrations were a little
too focused on timbre/colour at the cost of rhythmic subtlety, although they
were still genuinely good efforts and at times full of surprises. The
amplification of the instruments inevitably brought them a lot of
reverberation, which has slightly underminded some of the austerity of the
music (which I think would be more appropriate for the Cage).
Up until the interval I thought the audience was pretty much in harmony,
until the Chamber Concerto, when I few groups of people decided to walk out,
although at the end the musicians were well cheered. BTW, it was a sold-out
performance......
E
"Brian Lee" <bria...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:3e6a83b2...@news.homechoice.co.uk...
Brian Lee
videos unfortunately). Those people normally produce everything in the
studio using midi where you're got complete control. Then I guess they
got the program to print out a score which was then orchestrated,
rehearsed and played. So that could account for the loss of something
in translation regarding the rhythm.
As you say, a sell-out. The promoters must have breathed a sigh of
relief! It does create an interesting and viable way of packaging
contemporary classical to present it to a wider (and younger)
audience. So if that means that I have to sit through some Aphex Twin
to get to listen to some Ligeti or Stockhausen, so be it.
I was thinking afterwards, it would have been great to have had some
Xenakis on the programme (orchestral Zappa would have been too obvious
I suppose)
Brian
On Sun, 9 Mar 2003 01:02:32 -0000, "Eugene Leung" <el244***@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>
>I want to tell you about a concert I went to at the Royal Festival
>Hall London tonight (Saturday 8th March). The London Sinfonietta
>playing contemporary classical masters (Nancarrow, Cage, Ligeti, Ives
>and Stockhausen) interspersed with pieces from groups/individuals from
>the Warp label - Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada and Squarepusher -
>arranged for orchestra.
I suppose this is the thing David Horne was working on and posting
about?
>The audience was more on the Warp side than
>the contemporary classical side judging from the cheers that went up
>when one of their side came on.
I say that sounds like David did really well! Must have been a nice
concert.
>Cage's contribution was pieces from the Sonatas and Interludes for
>prepared piano (I've never seen/heard a prepared piano live before and
>the theatrical impact of a guy in a suit sitting down to play at what
>looks like an ordinary piano and you've got these expectations of how
>it will sound and then these amazing gamelan type noises come out!)
In contexts like these, the prepared piano pieces come out a little
too cute. '101', '74', 'Cartridge Music' or 'Atlas Eclipticalis' would
have been my choices...
>The pieces were accompanied by visual projections - video art type
>things, some of which looked a bit like they came from an art college
>with too much equipment and just got in the way of the music (I shut
>my eyes a lot).
One of today's most common program follies: "Visuals with music! It's
cool within the minute!'
--
Samuel
http://concerten.free.fr
"Als kunst is bedoeld om debat uit te lokken, en we hebben dat
debat hier gehouden, dan is dat beeld toch niet meer nodig?"
- Leefbaar Rotterdam
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>I agree with your comments about the Warp stuff (I missed most of the
>videos unfortunately). Those people normally produce everything in the
>studio using midi where you're got complete control. Then I guess they
>got the program to print out a score which was then orchestrated,
>rehearsed and played. So that could account for the loss of something
>in translation regarding the rhythm.
I actually can't imagine an orchestra doing the sort of rhythmically
intricate (and polished) stuff you can hear in Squarepusher...
>As you say, a sell-out. The promoters must have breathed a sigh of
>relief! It does create an interesting and viable way of packaging
>contemporary classical to present it to a wider (and younger)
>audience. So if that means that I have to sit through some Aphex Twin
>to get to listen to some Ligeti or Stockhausen, so be it.
>
>I was thinking afterwards, it would have been great to have had some
>Xenakis on the programme (orchestral Zappa would have been too obvious
>I suppose)
Zappa is for a different generation.
Eugene Leung
consonant/melodic, akin to the Warp ambient works, and its percussiveness is
reminiscence of the dynamism of the more upbeat tracks...?!?!
Indeed they were David Horne's arrangements. The pieces chosen were more on
the ambient than the rhythmically intricate ones I guess (not sure about
Squarepusher but definitely so for BOC, maybe Aphex too). Some of it was
really scintillating and works extremely well. But I just feel in the more
rhythmic passages the orchestration is just too pointillistic for the
dynamism, so crucial to the music, to come through convincingly.
In fact, the concert kicked off with Ligeti's Poeme symphonique
(electronically realised) as the audience were gathering in the hall,
accompanied by a digital video which is a kind of visual representation of
the piece, with a mass of metronome hands forming a circle with their tips,
all ticking in different rhythms. Apparently Steve Reich has done something
similar with Piano Phase?
Eugene
"Samuel Vriezen" <sqv.remo...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3e6bbd1...@news.xs4all.nl...
Brian Lee
Vriezen) wrote:
>On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:01:07 GMT, bria...@eudoramail.com (Brian Lee)
>wrote:
(snippy snip)
>
>
>>The pieces were accompanied by visual projections - video art type
>>things, some of which looked a bit like they came from an art college
>>with too much equipment and just got in the way of the music (I shut
>>my eyes a lot).
>
>One of today's most common program follies: "Visuals with music! It's
>cool within the minute!'
>
>--
>Samuel
>http://concerten.free.fr
>
>"Als kunst is bedoeld om debat uit te lokken, en we hebben dat
>debat hier gehouden, dan is dat beeld toch niet meer nodig?"
> - Leefbaar Rotterdam
I'm still in two minds about the combination of the videos with the
music.
When the live musicians were playing, the videos were like
accompaniment. But when they started in on Ives' Unanswered Question
there was a shout from someone back stage, the orchestra stopped and
then started again I guess to fit in with the video projection.
On the other hand the videos that were played with the sound
accompanying were far more integrated especially the computer
animation to a piece by Autechre.
I can recall other concerts that have attempted some sort of audio
visual play off.
The concert of Stockhausen's early electronic pieces at the Barbican
in London last year just had a white spot projected onto a screen and
KHS's advice was either to listen with the eyes closed or to look at
the white spot. Fine. At least nothing to rattle my retina and
distract from the sound world.
Then I remember a performance of Varese's Deserts that had an utterly
unmemorable film accompaniment by Bill Viola.
But for me you can't beat what Eisenstein did to Prokofiev's music in
the Battle on the Ice from Alexander Nevsky. OK I just convinced
myself to buy the DVD.
Brian
David Horne
> Some of it was
> really scintillating and works extremely well. But I just feel in the more
> rhythmic passages the orchestration is just too pointillistic for the
> dynamism, so crucial to the music, to come through convincingly.
That's a valid perspective, and also one that I'd imagine many coming
from the Warp side might have had as well (I'm presuming your bent is
more classical). On one hand, it's inevitable, when you consider the
balance of the rhythmic layers to the harmonic/melodic ones on the
original tracks. On the other, though, these are interpretations, if you
like, of the originals. They're not intended as verbatim transcriptions-
indeed that defeats the point, as the originals do what they do so
perfectly.
I'd argue (well, I _would_ wouldn't I?) that the transcriptions do at
least attempt to encapsulate the rhythmic dynamism of the originals, but
the balance, and obviously the sounds, are altered. Interestingly, there
was very positive feedback from Squarepusher (whose tracks were
extremely complex rhythmically) about the use of rhythm, particularly as
it found its way in to non-traditionally percussive instruments. If you
get a chance to listen to the broadcast on R3 on April 26, you may or
may not hear some of that.
The whole concert was an awesome experience for me, personally, I must
admit. To see a packed RFH with a mostly under-30s crowd is extremely
unusual for contemporary classical music- certainly I've never
experienced it. And while most of the audience was definitely coming
from the Warp perspective, I felt there was on the whole a _real_
enthusiasm for the Ligeti, Cage, Stockhausen etc. Also, while some may
turn up their nose at the thought, I thought that the enthusiastic
applause and whistles _between_ the movements of the Ligeti were
wonderful!
Also very refreshing in my opinion was to hear people bubbling with
comments about the whole event in the "intermission" (there were still
videos going on then.) There were real conversations and arguments going
on, but all of it with enthusiasm, whether pro or con. I can't say I
usually experience that, unfortunately. I daresay I can't expect to have
concertgoers walking down the aisle with beers during my upcoming
premieres either! :)
Perhaps the greatest privelege for me, though, was to get to know the
music of these artists in very close detail. I listened to these tracks
hundreds of times, including in tiny sections. What was quite moving in
a way was the realisation that if I could get this much out of three
tracks amounting to little more than a quarter of an hour, how much
music from all types of genres would I never have the chance to explore
and discover in such detail?
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
David Horne
> When the live musicians were playing, the videos were like
> accompaniment. But when they started in on Ives' Unanswered Question
> there was a shout from someone back stage, the orchestra stopped and
> then started again I guess to fit in with the video projection.
You might have been a bit further back to hear everything, but that's
not actually what happened. Someone's phone went off. Judging by the
ring tone, it was the same phone that had gone off earlier in the
concert. Anyway, someone (presumbably not the person with the phone)
shouted something out. Couldn't make it out, but it was probably not a
compliment! Stefan Asbury, the conductor, very wisely just stopped, and
they started again. It wasn't too far into the piece thankfully, as you
noted.
David Horne
> In contexts like these, the prepared piano pieces come out a little
> too cute.
I can see why it could seem that way.
> '101', '74', 'Cartridge Music' or 'Atlas Eclipticalis' would
> have been my choices...
It might come from your perspective of knowing so much of his music
though. My own feeling was that the choice of select pieces from the
Sonatas and Interludes worked brilliantly in the context of everything
else on the programme. The attention they got was extraordinary, I
thought. There's also an interesting connection between Cage and Aphex
Twin, that you may be aware of. The CD "drukqs" from which I chose a
track, was partly inspired by the prepared piano sounds of Cage. As it
turned out, I didn't choose one of the tracks which is more obviously
inspired by Cage, as I felt an interpretation of an interpretation
(that's a bit clumsy, but I can't think of how else to put it) wouldn't
work. However, it's an incredible CD, I heartily recommend it.
Chris Hodges
version (Michael Vetter ) which lasts for well over two hrs...!
There other 3 versions recorded under KS label all last a more modest
20/25 mins
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
Ah, I see, it makes perfect sense.
My suspicions about the prepared piano pieces is that they get used so
often as 'proof' that Cage was a composer, whereas in my view, the
major works come after the bulk of the prepared piano work. Much as I
enjoy those pieces, and the Sonatas and Interludes, I think the 'great
works' (if in the context of a composer who denounced favouritism the
term makes sense...) start with The Seasons. But the prepared piano
works get presented much more often, it seems.
Anyway, I have not hear drukqs but I think I'll take a look at it
soon.
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>If you
>get a chance to listen to the broadcast on R3 on April 26,
This I'd like to, but I may not be in the position. If anyone is going
to have a recording of it, I would be quite interested in some sort of
trade...
>Perhaps the greatest privelege for me, though, was to get to know the
>music of these artists in very close detail. I listened to these tracks
>hundreds of times, including in tiny sections.
Oh yes, I imagine this must have been stimulating.
>What was quite moving in
>a way was the realisation that if I could get this much out of three
>tracks amounting to little more than a quarter of an hour, how much
>music from all types of genres would I never have the chance to explore
>and discover in such detail?
Ha! There's mortality for you. Not enough time to read every good
book, hear all interesting music, see all good paintings _and_ make
the world a better place...
Brian Lee
concert
Brian
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:19:02 +0000, n...@myaddress.co.uk (David Horne)
wrote:
>Brian Lee <bria...@eudoramail.com> wrote:
Samuel Vriezen
wrote:
>The CD "drukqs" from which I chose a
>track, was partly inspired by the prepared piano sounds of Cage. As it
>turned out, I didn't choose one of the tracks which is more obviously
>inspired by Cage, as I felt an interpretation of an interpretation
>(that's a bit clumsy, but I can't think of how else to put it) wouldn't
>work. However, it's an incredible CD, I heartily recommend it.
BTW, I'm curious - following your experiences, which CDs of these
artists did you find most stimulating?
David Horne
> BTW, I'm curious - following your experiences, which CDs of these
> artists did you find most stimulating?
Hard not to make this sound pat, but I'm uncomfortable rating them
against each other because a) I don't tend to think that way and b) they
were stimulating in their own way and are really too different for me to
make useful comparisons. It's not a cop-out answer, I hope. If I
_hadn't_ found them (or one of them) stimulating, I don't think I would
have enjoyed the project anyway.
Jeff Harrington
> Samuel Vriezen <sqv.remo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > BTW, I'm curious - following your experiences, which CDs of these
> > artists did you find most stimulating?
>
> Hard not to make this sound pat, but I'm uncomfortable rating them
> against each other because a) I don't tend to think that way and b) they
> were stimulating in their own way and are really too different for me to
> make useful comparisons. It's not a cop-out answer, I hope. If I
> _hadn't_ found them (or one of them) stimulating, I don't think I would
> have enjoyed the project anyway.
>
> David
Would you mind listing the tracks (you arranged?) on the concert by
the Warp artists?
Thanks!
Jeff Harrington
http://jeffharrington.org
David Horne
> Would you mind listing the tracks (you arranged?) on the concert by
> the Warp artists?
>
> Thanks!
Sure-
1. Squarepusher- Budakhan Mindphone WARP/1999
Track 3-"The Tide"
2. Boards of Canada- Music has a right to children WARP/1998
Track 14- "Pete standing alone"
3. Aphex Twin-"drukqs" WARP CD 92
cd 2- track 12- afx237 v.7
Guillaume Grenier
<sqv.remo...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:19:03 +0000, n...@myaddress.co.uk (David Horne)
> wrote:
>
> >The CD "drukqs" from which I chose a
> >track, was partly inspired by the prepared piano sounds of Cage. As it
> >turned out, I didn't choose one of the tracks which is more obviously
> >inspired by Cage, as I felt an interpretation of an interpretation
> >(that's a bit clumsy, but I can't think of how else to put it) wouldn't
> >work. However, it's an incredible CD, I heartily recommend it.
>
> BTW, I'm curious - following your experiences, which CDs of these
> artists did you find most stimulating?
I'm not David, but to those unfamiliar with the artists mentioned in
this thread, I'd recommend the following titles (as starting points):
Squarepusher: Big Loada
Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works Volume II
Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children
Besides being considered by yours truly as being damn good, these three
titles are widely considered as "classics" by IDM (Intelligent Dance
Music -- the ridiculous genre title [from which the aforementioned
musicians would no doubt distance themselves] has always been the
source of much discussion...) listeners.
Also, I would *strongly* recommend the music of another Warp mainstay,
the duo known as Autechre. Their music is the result of a fantastic
collision of the various tendencies that have shaped electro-acoustic
music over the years, both in the "popular" (e.g. techno, hip-hop,
etc.) and "academic" (e.g. musique concrete, computer-generated music,
etc.) realm. If you're not familiar with this music, do yourself a
favor and get the self-titled (or non-titled... or "all gray"... or
otherwise generally known as "LP5") album. From there, explore freely
(you might want to skip the first few releases, though).
--
.g
email: @renier-@ a t videotron-ca
(@=g; -=.)
Steve Layton
"Guillaume Grenier" <nos...@for.me> wrote in message
news:110320032330205860%nos...@for.me...
[...]
>
> Also, I would *strongly* recommend the music of another Warp mainstay,
> the duo known as Autechre. Their music is the result of a fantastic
> collision of the various tendencies that have shaped electro-acoustic
> music over the years, both in the "popular" (e.g. techno, hip-hop,
> etc.) and "academic" (e.g. musique concrete, computer-generated music,
> etc.) realm.
As long as we're doing "the classics" (i.e. 90's-electro-something's "old
masters"), I'd also recommend the less beat-oriented, textural stuff of
people like O Yuki Conjugate, Paul Shulze, Stilluppsteypa, Jim O'Rourke, and
any of the circle that bumped against their names on compilations. And some
of the work of people like Ryoji Ikeda can be amazingly fresh with only the
barest, most unapologetic of elctronic sounds; a little like "Alvin Lucier
with a beat".
--
Steve Layton
http://www.ampcast.com/stevelayton
For the sounds of music being made worldwide *today*
pay a visit to "NetNewMusic": www.netnewmusic.net
Robbie Baldock
wrote:
>I'm not David, but to those unfamiliar with the artists mentioned in
>this thread, I'd recommend the following titles (as starting points):
>
>Squarepusher: Big Loada
My favourite Squarepusher CD is "Music is Rotted One Note" a kind of
dark and twisted homage to Billy Cobham and the whole 70s fusion
sound.
You can listen to some of it here:
http://www.warprecords.com/ography/release.php?cat=WARP57
Robbie
Jeff Harrington
> Jeff Harrington <je...@parnasse.com> wrote:
>
> > Would you mind listing the tracks (you arranged?) on the concert by
> > the Warp artists?
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> Sure-
>
> 1. Squarepusher- Budakhan Mindphone WARP/1999
>
> Track 3-"The Tide"
>
>
> 2. Boards of Canada- Music has a right to children WARP/1998
>
> Track 14- "Pete standing alone"
>
>
> 3. Aphex Twin-"drukqs" WARP CD 92
>
> cd 2- track 12- afx237 v.7
>
Thanks, David... New York Times article on your concert:
Where Avant-Garde Masters Meet the Stars of Electronica
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/12/arts/music/12ETHE.html
Congrats, BTW!
Jeff Harrington
http://jeffharrington.org
Guillaume Grenier
<r...@easynet.co.uk> wrote:
It is indeed very good too... It would probably be the second on my
Squarepusher list... After that record, the terrain gets a bit more
slippery: the following releases are hit and miss affairs, with
"Selection 16" being IMO pretty much a big miss. And "Go Plastic" being
the proverbial return to form...
Obviously, some people will disagree with these assertions, but I think
most people would agree that you can't go wrong with either "Big Loada"
or "Music is Rotted One Note".
David Horne
> Thanks, David... New York Times article on your concert:
Thanks very much for that. I don't know if anyone had seen that one!
Victor Eijkhout
> I actually can't imagine an orchestra doing the sort of rhythmically
> intricate (and polished) stuff you can hear in Squarepusher...
But you are aware of 4Hero's "Two Pages" where some DnB gets played by
acoustic instruments?
It's not quite SquarePusher, though.
V.
--
"[U]ntil this Administration it had been possible to believe that by
upholding the policies of my president I was also upholding the
interests of the American people and the world. I believe it
no longer." Resigning diplomat John Brady Kiesling, 2003/02/27