Bad Anchor Stories
Chiloe
toprope set up by somebody else. But there is another kind
too, that many climbers could tell.
*************************
Selnes, June 1997
On a business trip to a region not famous for climbing, I
heard about a 150-meter crag a few hours away. Friends
introduced me to a stout local who had climbing experience
and an old guidebook. The book described what appeared to
be a classic 5.9 route up the crag's central corner. My new
friend had not climbed it, but showed enthusiasm when I
offered to lead. We set out with our nonclimbing friends on
the scenic ferry and car ride approach.
The climb felt a bit raw, as if it hadn't seen heavy
traffic. There was no fixed gear. Lichen and looseness
added flavor to the lower slab pitches. A long vertical
corner at half height formed the obvious crux and the reason
for the route's classic status. Overcautious on strange
rock, I started up the corner placing protection every few
meters. My borrowed rack soon grew leaner, forcing runouts
towards the top. When I reached the sloping belay stance I
had no gear left except a #1 Friend and a clutch of small
wires. There was no place for the wires. I shoved the
Friend deep into a flared crack behind my stance. Sharing
the crack was an old wooden wedge, a relic from ancient
times. The Friend and wedge were the only anchors I could
get.
My partner had been slow but successful on the 5.7 lower
pitches. As he started to follow the crux, however, I
realized why he had not tried this route previously. He
made determined progress by pulling up on gear where he
could, and in between placements doing very short moves
followed by long tension rests. This was exhausting for
him, and almost equally so for me because I was trying to
keep his considerable weight off my anchors, while standing
balanced on that sloping stance. One-third of the way up
the pitch, he reached a roof and fell off. His swing yanked
me from the stance and onto the anchors. The wooden wedge
grated and popped out, leaving both of us hanging from one
small Friend. While my partner struggled to get back on the
rock, I fought to regain my stance. The rest of the pitch
continued in this vein. My partner moved upwards by
centimeters taking constant tension and frequent falls. By
strenuous efforts I kept most of our weight off the anchor,
which I could scarcely stop watching. An hour later, when
he reached the belay, both of us were physically and
mentally drained. Wanting only to get down alive, we
traversed to good anchors and rapped off.
At a dockside cafe that afternoon, my friends were jolly
about how wild this expedition had looked from the ground.
I was just partly there, thinking about what I should have
done and wishing we had finished the climb.
Dingus Milktoast
"Chiloe" <ich...@hotmail.com> wrote
> The modal Bad Anchor Story on rec.climbing involves a
> toprope set up by somebody else. But there is another kind
> too, that many climbers could tell.
Burl, Angus and I climbed White Punks on Dope many years ago. Burl led the
2nd pitch, short dicked it and set up shop under a small roof.
So I was already irritated that I had to finish his pitch plus mine. Angus
climbed 2nd, then me. When I arrived, Burl quips,
"Dingus, this belay isn't too good." He demonstrated this by tugging on one
of the pieces.
Now he had a mountain of gear, since he'd only climbed about 80 feet. Into
the various cracks and whatnot he'd plugged 3 or 4 cams. But it was obvious
to even the most casual observer that at least two of them were stuck behind
movable blocks.
When he tugged on the cam, it fell out, plop, and hit me on the shoulder.
Red faced he reached down to retrieve it and as he did he put tension on
another piece. I'll be damned if it didn't fall out too! I mean it just fell
out, like a suitcase out of an open cargo door of a plane.
I went ape shit, explaining to him in a lecturing tone reserved for the
village idiot that I had a family and they needed me to come home at the end
of the day. I'm pretty sure he was relieved when I finally started up the
next pitch, after having reassembled his anchor system and giving him an ear
full of shit for at least 15 minutes.
Moral of this story... when you climb with white punks on dope, what do you
expect?
But I will never ever forget the look on his face when that cam fell on me.
Nor, I bet, he the look on mine!
DMT
rich rookie
"Dingus Milktoast" <none@yabis> wrote in message
news:v2qrt8a...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> But I will never ever forget the look on his face when that cam fell on
me.
> Nor, I bet, he the look on mine!
>
How about little tri-cams which fall out unless they're kept under tension.
Little sticks and pebbles are great tools.
rich rookie
Phil Box
"Chiloe" <ich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e0d971e.03012...@posting.google.com...
> The modal Bad Anchor Story on rec.climbing involves a
> toprope set up by somebody else. But there is another kind
> too, that many climbers could tell.
>
> *************************
someone who is unable to live up to expectations based on how they spray at
the bottom of the crag. I`ve been there and done that a few times now and am
becoming more cautious of the strangers who I get saddled with sometimes.
I`ll chuck them on a climb that is a few grades below what they reckon they
can handle and then watch them flail on second. I`ll then lower the grades
until they can climb it. Only then can I know what they can really climb and
of course deduct a couple of grades if they have to lead.
...Phil...
Guido
> The modal Bad Anchor Story on rec.climbing involves a
> toprope set up by somebody else. But there is another kind
> too, that many climbers could tell.
>
> *************************
vol. 23. no. 2493}
I had been top-roping for a couple of seasons, confident that my body-belay
was pretty solid. It was all self-taught goldline stuff, with a mix of
steel and aluminum biners, and some military 1 and 2 inch tubular webbing
used both for anchors and for swiss seats. We thought a double twist 'round
a biner's strength axis made a fine rappel device in those days.
It's a beautiful Spring day and I'm supervising an outdoor group with enough
staff to allow me to drift away, when I notice a heavy-set guy clanking up
to the crag with altogether too much hardware, and too few followers. Soon
I'm seconding a few two and three-pitch routes of modest demand behind my
hero, the leader, all happy and bursting with pride. "Hey, I'm a real rock
climber now!" I think.
Later, my best staffer appears as we're rappelling back to earth and joins
in for the final three-pitcher of the day. We're both beaming like award
recipients atop the first pitch as our hero leads upwards towards a roof.
Suddenly, my friend notices that the anchor (opposed wireys among others) is
dangling from his waist instead of honoring us in that horizontal,
head-height crack like it ought to be.
"Ah, Mark?" I summon our hero.
"Yeah, watch me here, guys! It's kinda tough getting over this bulge" our
hero contends.
Back at the belay, well the comfy ledge we're holding down, my partner and I
exchange glances like two school kids caught hiking class, wondering what
punishment the principal has in mind. I reshuffle my body position as the
ledge shrinks in size, and fingers tighten on the stopping end of a body
belay encircling my waist. The sudden reality that we both may soon be
yanked down the cliff to a horrible death enters our minds. Real rock
climbers, huh? This is a fine fix you've got us in now, Ollie.
My eye follows the rope above me, counting two gear placement between us and
our hefty hero, who grunts, leans left, kicks a foot out of sight over the
lip above him, and farts loud enough to crack smiles in those scared little
school boys, just two nuts away. We laugh out loud that half-funny,
half-fearful kind of nervous joy which climbers release when they escape
certain calamity.
I never climbed with our hero again. But I did buy his rack, all 13 nuts
and, along with 20 used biners, discovered I could one-up my hero with
anchor-building. I guess we can learn a lot from a good teacher.
G
x15x15
> "Chiloe" <ich...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > The modal Bad Anchor Story on rec.climbing involves a
> > toprope set up by somebody else. But there is another kind
> > too, that many climbers could tell.
My buddy (who now holds the CAs 14000ft summit record) went to climb E Face
Keeler Needle many moons ago. A long time ago. Back when there was only
ONE recorded topo to it. Neither one of us had looked at the topo (and did
not believe in them then) and only heard horror stories about the chimney up
high. Well now, we were going light and fast. One rope and a grand total
of 12 pieces that included our stopper selection and a few BIG pieces
leaving us with a piss poor rack of shit. After a couple pitches, there
REALLY was only one way to go.
So, my lead on the Red Dihedral and the only pieces that I could use were in
the belay, and it was Bomber too. I lead that without a single peice! I
got to the top and was looking at the *chimney* and figured I just did my
part in climbing what I did with minimal (no) pro, I sure as hell aint gonna
lead the chimney too.
So, I continued to lead through until I could go no further. Lucky for me
(and my buddy), there was a flake I was able to wedge myself in right below
the chimney pitch. I stuffed myself in and yelled *ROPE FIXED* (for those
wondering, by now I was left with no usable gear which I most certainly
would have traded a million dollars for) and my partner jugged off my
harness.
The worse part about this situation was that once my partner jugged up and
we looked at our meager selection of gear, we still DID NOT have anything to
make a belay with. So off he goes...............
One of the most magical climbs I have ever done. First of many grade Vs in
a day. Although I now make sure I have 12 USABLE pieces.
x15x15
Jeffrey Octrooi
I have sometimes yelled down apologies for the delay as I work and work and
work to make sure the anchor is bomber. If, as the leader, you don't have
enough gear to make a good anchor, have your second lower you off to grab
some of the lower gear and reclimb to establish a good anchor. Worst case,
bail. Climbing is for fun - there is no reason to die. I consider the drive
to the rock a greater risk than my time on the rock.
If pro in the middle fails, the leader may get hurt - if the anchor fails,
two people may die.
I once paid a professional a days fee to make sure my anchors were foolproof
(he also taught me a great deal about self-rescue). I considered it money
well spent.
Jeffrey
(all of my climbing partners are still alive AND respect my anchors)
--
**>>anti-spam: you will see my e-mail address
as "xyzoc...@swbell.net". Remove the "xyz"
at the beginning.<<**
"Chiloe" <ich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e0d971e.03012...@posting.google.com...
Thor Lancelot Simon
Jeffrey Octrooi <xyzoc...@swbell.net> wrote:
>In my humble opinion, there is _NEVER_ an excuse for an insufficient anchor.
>I have sometimes yelled down apologies for the delay as I work and work and
>work to make sure the anchor is bomber. If, as the leader, you don't have
>enough gear to make a good anchor, have your second lower you off to grab
>some of the lower gear and reclimb to establish a good anchor. Worst case,
If you can't build an anchor, what if you can't safely lower off? What do
you do if you run out of rope at the top of nasty slab moves you can't
downclimb, with no cracks in sight and the last bolt way down there near
your last belay?
Okay, now what do you do if you're in that same situation, but you're out
of rope on a small ledge where you can get a stance, with a marginal flare
that takes a couple of RPs and a couple of 1.5" shrubs you can tie off?
What if your partner's a stronger climber than you and you're pretty much
certain that he won't fall? Do you lower off your crap anchor? Call for
a rescue? Or tie together what you can, put yourself between the "anchor"
and the fall force, tell your partner what's up and let him help decide
whether he wants to take that particular risk today (a.k.a. "Dude. You
really don't want to fall on this anchor, okay?")
Using your rules, the only option would seem to be to start screaming for
a rescue -- which might or might not happen, which if it did happen would
end up putting a lot of _other_ people at risk to save your butt, and
which might result in your crap anchor getting weighted anyway while
you're waiting for the government to spend kilobucks hauling you off the
cliff.
I submit that that is not always the right choice.
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
But as he knew no bad language, he had called him all the names of common
objects that he could think of, and had screamed: "You lamp! You towel! You
plate!" and so on. --Sigmund Freud
Nafod40
> Jeffrey Octrooi wrote:
> >In my humble opinion, there is _NEVER_ an excuse for an insufficient anchor.
>
> you do if you run out of rope at the top of nasty slab moves you can't
> downclimb, with no cracks in sight and the last bolt way down there near
> your last belay?
>
> Using your rules, the only option would seem to be to start screaming for
> a rescue --
>
Unlike in Vertical Limit, anchors don't usually creep, do they? They
fail at once. If you test to see that the anchor can take body weight
and it does, it'd make sense to treat the climber below as a haul bag
and pull him up as he climbs, to keep all slack out of the system and
an even tension on the anchor points. With a crappy anchor, it's not
about climbing, it's about getting up safely. I'd definitely belay off
the body, to absorb loads and also to minimize distance fallen if god
forbid the anchor fails, hoping lower pro might hold.
Tom Keefer
pretty chock full of accidents involving anchors and the lack there
of... From some of the best guides in the world right down to the most
green beginner...
Some are pretty darn scary and prob would be good reading for any
climber regardless of expereince.
Tim Stich
> Thor Lancelot Simon wrote...
> > Jeffrey Octrooi wrote:
> > >In my humble opinion, there is _NEVER_ an excuse for an insufficient anchor.
> >
> > If you can't build an anchor, what if you can't safely lower off? What do
> > you do if you run out of rope at the top of nasty slab moves you can't
> > downclimb, with no cracks in sight and the last bolt way down there near
> > your last belay?
> >
> <snip hairy situation>
> >
> > Using your rules, the only option would seem to be to start screaming for
> > a rescue --
> >
> > I submit that that is not always the right choice.
>
> Unlike in Vertical Limit, anchors don't usually creep, do they?
Bring up that movie for the purposes of making an intellectual inquiry
into actual anchor behaviour seems like MADNESS I tell you!
In fact, in the spirit of Godwin's Law about mentioning the Nazis in
Usenet discussions, I hereby submit that the mere mention of Vertical
Limit in the discussion of actual climbing situations is covered by
said law.
So let it be written, so let it be done.
-Tim
"if you mention Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended
whatever discussion you were taking part in".
GREGORY KNESER
: > Unlike in Vertical Limit, anchors don't usually creep, do they?
: Bring up that movie for the purposes of making an intellectual inquiry
: into actual anchor behaviour seems like MADNESS I tell you!
: In fact, in the spirit of Godwin's Law about mentioning the Nazis in
: Usenet discussions, I hereby submit that the mere mention of Vertical
: Limit in the discussion of actual climbing situations is covered by
: said law.
: So let it be written, so let it be done.
: -Tim
: "if you mention Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended
: whatever discussion you were taking part in".
With groups.google.com so accessible, at least get it right:
Brutus of Wyde
having recently discovered the secrets of Leavittation and
De-materialization on some mossy, weeping offwidth project. His
attention drawn to the discussion by the scent of "-NEVER-" versus "it
depends...", he wanders into the cafeteria to address the [many] empty
chair there (dinner is not for another hour)]
(Thor Lancelot Simon) beat me to the punch with:
> Jeffrey Octrooi wrote:
> >In my humble opinion, there is _NEVER_ an excuse for an insufficient anchor.
[snip a bunch of other dogmatic, self-righteous stuff]
What about easy ground and a lightning storm 20 minutes away?
What about simul-climbing?
In addition to T.L.S.'s scenario, I can think of many many situations
where the choices were: interpose yourself between the follower and
the anchor, or sit here 'till we starve to death. In those
situations, the anchor at hand is sufficient. It must be.
> If you can't build an anchor, what if you can't safely lower off? What do
> you do if you run out of rope at the top of nasty slab moves you can't
> downclimb, with no cracks in sight and the last bolt way down there near
> your last belay?
I *HATE* it when that happens.
> Okay, now what do you do if you're in that same situation, but you're out
> of rope on a small ledge where you can get a stance, with a marginal flare
> that takes a couple of RPs and a couple of 1.5" shrubs you can tie off?
> What if your partner's a stronger climber than you and you're pretty much
> certain that he won't fall? Do you lower off your crap anchor? Call for
> a rescue? Or tie together what you can, put yourself between the "anchor"
> and the fall force, tell your partner what's up and let him help decide
> whether he wants to take that particular risk today (a.k.a. "Dude. You
> really don't want to fall on this anchor, okay?")
Said it a number of times. On Mt. Waddington, simulclimbing the first
five pitches of the NE Chimney route, I was 5 feet from a good fixed
pin. FIVE FEET. Nurse Ratchet had just reached the crux of the
previous pitch. My yell "you really don't want to fall there" was
answered by "TENSION!" No where to place. Her anchor was me,
connected to the ice by two switchblade monopoints, an ice hammer pick
and an X-15 pick. Rather than take up rope, I climbed as she climbed,
and kept her under tension.
> I submit that that is not always the right choice.
I agree.
After we reached the Notch, she thanked me for the "tight belay and
tension" on that one section. We laughed about it, [somewhat
hysterically] when I told her the truth that evening, safely back at
the tent.
A bombproof anchor is not always the right choice. To steal a misquote
from Ergophobe, who can climb circles around me, "in heart surgery,
time, the ticking seconds, often make the difference between life and
death. They have a saying there that is as equally applicable to
alpine climbing: 'Perfect is the mortal enemy of good enough.'".
Dogma can be a dangerously sharp tool for those too weak or lazy to
think for themselves, and sometimes they will feel the cut of its
blade across their throat. More often, dogma will work. That is why
many embrace it. The problem is, of course, that sometimes your karma
runs over your dogma. [sorry, i know its old, but it seemed
appropriate.]
[Brutus looks at the empty chairs, and nods importantly. "Think about
it." he tells them. Taking their silence for deep thought, he wanders
back to his cell.]
Dingus Milktoast
"Brutus of Wyde" <bbin...@ebmud.com> wrote
> [Brutus looks at the empty chairs, and nods importantly. "Think about
> it." he tells them. Taking their silence for deep thought, he wanders
> back to his cell.]
Huh??? Wha??? Oh...
I was here all along Brutus. In the high backed chair over by the window. I
dozed off gazing out the window. Was just dreaming about shifting pins and
original sins and circling shark fins.
If every belay on every climb was 3/8 inch bolts and chains... all that gear
out in the garage wouldn't be of much use to me.
More years ago than I can quite put my finger on me and me mates went and
did the East Face of Balloon Dome. Nice little sport route. The 4 sentence
written description said:
East Face III 5.9: This route follows the first chimney system to the left
of Boku-Muru. Climb the chimney for two pitches. Traverse out right on the
face to a crack which is followed for five more pitches to the summit. Bring
many small wired nuts for this crack. (Mark Spencer, Southern Yosemite Rock
Climbs).
Sounds like fun, eh? Well... one pitch up this fine crack a funny thing
happened. It disappeared. Completely. As if David Copperfield had drunk one
too many and in some mad fit of dark humor simply removed it from the cliff.
In it's place he left some 500 feet of flawless granite slab. The two sets
of small wired nuts we toted dangled and tapped out chattering legs as we
slabbed our way up.
The three of us were perched atop a small ledge with a decent anchor. Angus
went a full rope length with no pro at all and set an "ok" anchor. I
followed. He warned me not to fall. The anchor was shit. I led the next
after we first hollered down to Burl to keep Angus on belay as I climbed. I
went about 100 feet more before I found a good cam placement, then went the
rest of the rope to gain a sort of pinnacle with a loose cap rock. The only
placements I could find in that whole span of rock were cams plugged under
the cap. Angus was my only real pro on the pitch, a human screamer!
Burl followed and our stomachs collectively groaned as he disassembled that
one good belay. He got to Angus, switched ropes, then climbed up to me, then
led off into the wild blue. I belayed him while simultaneously being belayed
by Angus from below. Now I was the screamer. Burl went all the way to the
summit slabs sans pro. One piece of lead protection in three pitches of
climbing. And no solid belay anchors at all.
We reckoned we'd distributed the stress and the risk equally and since none
of us fell, I guess it didn't matter. That climb, our one day car to car
ascent of Balloon Dome, still stands out in my mind to this day as one of
the finest adventures I've had in the Sierra. It was conceived on the spur
of the moment the previous weekend. You've seen the sum total of the route
description. There is no known topo of the route. We were sandbagged in the
worst sense of the word, relying upon bad 3rd hand beta offered by someone
who hadn't climbed the route. We climbed a physically wrecking chimney
followed by an X rated off width and topped it all off with those final 3
pitches.
Looking down the San Joaquin Canyon that afternoon, Mammoth Pool shimmering
in the haze, Shuteye Ridge blue on the horizon, facing a 10 mile hike down
into the canyon and back up the other side, not even knowing how we were
going to get off the dome other than, "That way.... I think," we sparked a
fatty, shook hands and drank the last of our water.
Those are my mates. People I trust. These two guys held my life in the palms
of their hands literally. Grace under fire, calm under stress, playing the
cards we were dealt.
"God help me, I love it so." (George Patton)
"Someday this war's gonna end." (Col. Kilroy)
"I love my climbing partners." (Dingus Milktoast)
Think I'll take another nap now...
DMT
Charles Vernon
> If you can't build an anchor, what if you can't safely lower off? What do
> you do if you run out of rope at the top of nasty slab moves you can't
> downclimb, with no cracks in sight and the last bolt way down there near
> your last belay?
>
> Okay, now what do you do if you're in that same situation, but you're out
> of rope on a small ledge where you can get a stance, with a marginal flare
> that takes a couple of RPs and a couple of 1.5" shrubs you can tie off?
Ahh...
Direct Second Buttress, Hallet Peak, RMNP:
This is an obscure (but excellent) route on an otherwise popular
mountain. Pitch 2 is the crux, a .10a thin corner/crack. I place a
good but small cam there, and the moves feel suprisingly easy for
.10a. However above, the crack dies and easier but runout climbing
leads to a large sloping belay ledge. Now, after searching around
this ledge for quite some time, all I can find are a small, thin flake
right on the edge of the ledge. I put in my two smallest cams--#0
tcus (with the next smallest being in the crux section), my two
smallest nuts (not counting the few little rps I had), and my second
smallest cam (same size as the crux piece) in a little flare in
dubious opposition. I wouldn't trust this flake to hold a lead fall,
but my other options are to continue up the next pitch, which although
only 5.6, looks quite runout, or to downclimb the runout below (and
set a hanging belay just above the crux), which seems to be an
invitation to disaster as the entire pitch has consisted of very small
gear placements. So, I bounce-test the anchor a number of times,
anchor myself into a calf-burning stem but secure stem just below the
ledge, trying to distribute weight equally between the anchor and my
stem, and put Dave on. I keep him tight throughout the entire pitch
(which causes problems during a short traverse), and he doesn't fall.
He leads the next pitch, looking very composed and solid, and it turns
out to be a very good thing that I hadn't kept going, as he was able
to get one piece, and not a great one at that, in about 60 ft. When
he reaches the belay, I have him put me on, and out of tremulous
curiosity I shock-loaded my anchor. It does hold--maybe I'm just
paranoid?.
That was about a year and a half ago; now, any time I do a runout
(which has not been anytime in the past half year), I try to make damn
sure I can downclimb every move of it solidly.
Some other stories:
*Eldo, Outer Space: my sporto partner (who i'm climbing with for the
first time--he is unfamiliar with Eldo although he has done 1 or 2
routes there) leads the crux final pitch, and while pulling up the
rope it gets stuck in a crack. We are completely out of earshot, so
finally I untie, tie the rope into the anchor, traverse the belay
ledge around to the west side of the Bastille, solo up the final 5.2
chimney pitch of the West Buttress (a pitch I had done before), and
come upon my partner from behind. He turns, and we both have
priceless looks of utter shock on our faces: him, because he had no
idea that what I had just done was even possible, and me, because he
(although braced in a depression) has no anchors in (despite a number
of possibilities)!
*Black Canyon, Scenic Cruise: my partner gets off route, two pitches
above the crux, develops a raging case of rope drag, and plops down to
belay on a small, incut ledge (although I can't see this from below).
Following, I'm traversing straight left toward him, but he is out of
sight around a corner. I take out his final piece, and begin a
sequence that while not really that hard, is rather awkward, involving
almost falling sideways. It is exposed and feels insecure. Just
before I commit, he yells: "Just so you know, I'm couldn't get anchors
so I'm belaying you off my body, but I'm really solid here!" I stop,
regain a stance, and tell him he better be joking. He is. I make the
moves, get to the ledge--he's not. No anchors. We finish the
route--best climb of my life.
Charles
Steve Mestdagh
> Ahh...
>
> Direct Second Buttress, Hallet Peak, RMNP:
>
Another Ahh...
Frendo Spur, Aiguille du Midi
My wife & I were getting to the close to the top of this 4000 mixed
route. Due to circumstances we were totally fried. At about 2/3
height, we had seen a parapenter meet his maker. Mountain winds are
fickle. His friends were yelling from the top.. Pepe! Pepe! It would
make a good (or bad) TR. Then it started snowing. Anyway back to the
subject. I led the last technical pitch on good ice. (We had stayed
left of the large rock outcrop (Rognon?) at the top so we could stick
w/ the ice.) It reared up to 80 deg for the last 40 ft. I put a screw
in 1/2 way up this and topped out on the rognon. It was as dark as it
could get before full dark ... and I was on snow covered rock. I
couldn't find any anchors. Snow not deep enough to bury my axe. I
nestled in and braced as well as I could and yelled "Off".
My wife got to the screw and yelled "Tension". Did I mention we were
fried? I yelled "NO" as seriously as I could and told her to leave the
screw. She came up and belayed as I led the next pitch in whiteout.
Suddenly nothing was in front of me. We hit the summit ridge. Massive
relief. We bivied in the teleferique station and life was good.
steve
RockRope
We had just finished a new single pitch with a squeeze chimney at the top.
There were two intersecting cracks at the dirty sloping ledge above the
chimney. I had minimum gear left but the three small cams fit well. Two in the
right leaner, one in the vertical. I eased down on the TR anchor with my legs
in the squeeze.
"Belay On!"
She squooze her way nicely.
"Why don't I just lower you, clean the anchor and traverse over to that anchor
around the corner?"
"ok"
As I lowered her, as I stared at the well-equalized cams, to my horror I saw
the right two pieces start to slide in the fine powdery sand that was in the
crack and pop! out, simultaneously. Now we were hanging off one tricam, she in
the air, me in the chimney.
"Everything all right?"
"Uh, yeah. Just a second," as I furiously blew and scraped the silt out of the
crack and reset the cams.
"Lowering!"
I didn't tell what happend until weeks later as I was ashamed and disappointed
with myself.
What did I learn? 1) Just because the cams are the right size and the rock
solid doesn't mean they will stick if it's too dirty. 2) Take your time, clean
that dirty crack. 3) Four cams are better than three. Use 'em if you got 'em.
4) Redundancy works. 5) I can be an idiot some times. 6) Good thing god loves
drunks and climers.
rr
stinkwagen
inspiring trip reports I noticed a pattern...
Charles Vernon wrote
> No anchors. We finish the route--best climb of my life.
*********************
and "Dingus Milktoast" wrote
> One piece of lead protection in three pitches of climbing. And
> no solid belay anchors at all.
[...]
> That climb [...] still stands out in my mind to this day as one of
> the finest adventures I've had in the Sierra.
**************************
and "x15x15" wrote
> we still DID NOT have anything to make a belay with. So off
> he goes...............
[...]
> One of the most magical climbs I have ever done.
************************************
Tales of double or triple-death runouts and each of these prolific
climbers glowingly recall their experiences as superlatives among
their lists of doubtlessy hundreds of climbing days.
Is this correlation between mortal peril and ecstatic recollection
merely a coincidence, or did it just so happen that only the
rec.climbers who gave enough of a sh*t to post had bad-belay days that
coincided with their fondest memories?
Well, let's suppose there is a connection. I think that's a
reasonable assumption. These guys worked themselves out of tough spots
using grace and cool-headedness, and the payoffs were accentuated by
the enormity of what they were able to avoid. Truly memorable,
fulfilling experiences. What interests me though is the relative lack
of negative emotions concerning their "close" calls. I mean,
wouldn't it be equally reasonable to be castigating yourself for
walking so close to the edge? Apparently, in these stories, the good
outweighed the bad far enough to keep these days in their top ten
lists.
It brought to mind an experience I had, not with a bad belay anchor,
but just a questionable decision. We decided to head up a multipitch
climb on a cold day in the face of imminent rain while lacking
adequate raingear. We ended up climbing through waterfalls on the last
pitch and then getting down to the bar before closing. We felt pretty
smug drinking our beers, but on the drive home I started beating
myself up for our decision. It could have easily turned out worse.
Much worse.
Perhaps the difference between my experience and the above posters'
stories is that of premeditation. In mine, we knew we could be hosed,
but decided to climb ahead anyway. The bad anchor/awesome day stories
are all tales of forging up into the unknown where the protagonists
lacks at least the specific warning of death-if-anybody-falls
territory. Perhaps this removes some of the downside by allowing one
to abdicate some responsibility?
"We flirted with death, but we didn't MEAN to."
Is danger == good so long as the danger isn't knowingly and/or
willingly engaged?
Taking this to extremes the answer seems obvious. Climbing a pitch
with a noose around my neck would not be a great memory for me no
matter how I styled the thing, while defeating a bunch of murderous
baddies that were unwillingly thrust into my life a la "Die Hard"
would certainly be a story I'd be telling to my grandchildren
(continuously). But what of the more intermediate mixes?
Say you solo some easy solid climb, then totally unexpectedly you
nearly die because a hold blows. Does that make the day better? The
danger was overcome and was not expected, but surely in this case
(soloing) you can't totally believe this kind of thing can never
happen. What if you head up a climb with only one rope, "pretty" sure
that it will be enough to get down. Turns out one rope is less than
ideal and you have a grueling and complicated epic retreat. Are you
puffed up because you dealt with an ugly situation, or are you ashamed
because you shouldn't have assumed one rope would suffice?
Another (quick) thought before ending this verbose post. What about
the time where one foils the reaper by complete dumb luck? Surely
that's not valued as highly as those times when you survive through
skill, but they inarguably hold some appeal (in remembering), as Guido
wrote,
"Guido" <we...@ghunter.mv.com> wrote
> We laugh out loud that half-funny, half-fearful kind of nervous
> joy which climbers release when they escape certain calamity.
Anyway, that's enough writing for now. What do YOU think?
Chuck
---
http://home.attbi.com/~cspieker/
Dingus Milktoast
"stinkwagen" <cspi...@home.com> wrote
> What do YOU think?
Great post Chuck! My thoughts:
What stands out for me about Balloon Dome is not that we faced death and
survived. It's not that we pulled off a remote and unknown climb with luck,
audacity and some measure of skill.
The thing that makes it stand out is that I did it with these close friends,
we each led x rated pitches (4 of the 7 pitches were X), and we kept our
cool, supported each other and succeeded mentally before we succeeded
physically. We were well aware of the risks. We could have bailed at any
time. Yet we persisted and remained in control in the face of some serious
odds. We judged ourselves up to the task and on the summit we were well
aware that we had judged correctly. Burl was the only one to puke after a
lead that day, and well, Burl pukes after a lot of leads! And if you could
have seen him thrashing up that OW for 60 with no pro, it would have brought
tears to your eyes...
I'm no adrenalin junky and anyone who's climbed with me knows I'm quite fond
of pro. I'm happy to clip bolts at my face and crank easy moves two feet out
from my last piece. I have free-soloed some long routes that left me sick to
the stomach because I was out of control mentally. But on Balloon Dome, on
that day, ship of fools or courageous adventurers (is there any
difference?)... we rose to the occasion.
Since that day I have glimpsed the dome from afar, from Shuteye, from
Chiquito Dome, from the top of Clyde Minaret, from airplanes, and each time
I feel flush with pride and, well, friendship. The climb bonded us in a way
that is difficult for men to describe. Successfully navigating such hazards
and remaining in control, individually and as a team, fosters a level of
intimacy and trust that is difficult to replicate in the workaday world.
It's on such days you realize you're climbing with bothers.
I don't seek out such routes. Had I a bolt kit that day I would have gladly
reinforced the belays, respect for the FA notwithstanding. But this thread
grew out of an admonition that climbers should never settle for a less than
bomber belay and I wanted to demonstrate a time when we did in fact settle
for less and all of us, asked independently or together, would acknowledge
the craziness of what we did, and the ultimate value we attach to the climb
for having done so.
Maybe it's just a guy thing, I don't know. I rose above myself that day, we
all did. And we knew it as we did it.
DMT
Mike Garrison
>
> Anyway, that's enough writing for now. What do YOU think?
My best climbing days have involved no bad anchors or close
brushes with death.
-Mike
A. Cairns
Brutus of Wyde wrote:
> [Brutus floats out of his padded cell in the Old Climbers' Home ,
> having recently discovered the secrets of Leavittation and
> De-materialization on some mossy, weeping offwidth project. His
> attention drawn to the discussion by the scent of "-NEVER-" versus "it
> depends...", he wanders into the cafeteria to address the [many] empty
> chair there (dinner is not for another hour)]
Wha!? How did I end up at work? Should I try to redirect that guy? Hmmm.
What would my boss say? Probably something about, "Our policy blah blah."
A lot of people working in or around institutions don't seem to understand the
difference between a policy, i.e. an idea of what would be preferred, and a rule,
like don't leave work until the next person comes in to replace you.
<mmbla wzz dissit>
> Dogma can be a dangerously sharp tool for those too weak or lazy to
> think for themselves
Crystalized intelligence. The guy must have known a thing or two once.
Andy "Hello [name]. Would you like some tea?" Cairns
Chiloe
>
> Is danger == good so long as the danger isn't knowingly and/or
> willingly engaged?
I think you're right that it's not so simple as danger = good.
But there's more to it than willingness. How you got into it,
and how you got out, matter too.
Some of my best climbs have been ones where the outcome was
uncertain, for a long period of time, but we kept it together
and broke through. Danger is never far away on such climbs,
but they don't necessarily involve the imminent death threat
of bad anchors. It could be fighting up through a storm,
a race against dark, unrelenting effort, a summit overhang
that you just aren't sure will go....
The triumphant stories on this thread have been like that. On
the other hand, my own story was not -- we got into trouble due
to my own mistakes, obvious in hindsight. I was glad to escape
but not proud. Some other days, when disaster came even closer,
we escaped by luck and afterwards I felt appalled to have cut
it so close.
Jeffrey Octrooi
what should be done in climbing. What is my penance for that?
But, I have read accounts of climbers dying because of anchor failure (John
Long's books). I don't want my name in that list.
I have had people laugh at me for carrying so much gear up on a climb, but I
want to make sure I have enough (even if it does weigh 20 pounds). Every
time I place a piece, I am conscious of the fact that it is no longer
available for the anchor.
Some of the comments discussed the anchor only holding body weight. True as
the second is coming up, but what about when the leader goes on to the next
pitch and has not yet placed any gear? If the issue is lack of gear, the
arrival of the second will fix that problem.
But, if the issue is runout, you have a dangerous situation. I like to get
enough beta not to get into such a situation. Maybe I have just been lucky
so far....
In any event, thank for the comments on my less-than-perfect post.
--
**>>anti-spam: you will see my e-mail address
as "xyzoc...@swbell.net". Remove the "xyz"
at the beginning.<<**
"Jeffrey Octrooi" <xyzoc...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:EroX9.1296$I76.66...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Brutus of Wyde
> OK, I first confess to the sin of using the word "never" in a discussion of
> what should be done in climbing. What is my penance for that?
We'll think of something appropriate. A spanking perhaps. Or maybe a
5.9+ offwidth. :)
> But, I have read accounts of climbers dying because of anchor failure (John
> Long's books). I don't want my name in that list.
So have many of us. And nor do many of us. And some of us have had
friends die as a result of bad anchors, or worse, apparent good
anchors in less-than-solid terrain. Many responding to this thread
take the potential consequences of bad anchors just as seriously as
you. Some of us perhaps more so. Take for example a team of three
ascending Magic Mushroom on El Cap. The first of the three gets to a
bivy belay which consists of three 1/4" buttonhead bolts and no gear
placements. What would you do? [Total weight of the team, gear, and
haul bags exceeds 700 lbs.]
> I have had people laugh at me for carrying so much gear up on a climb, but I
> want to make sure I have enough (even if it does weigh 20 pounds). Every
> time I place a piece, I am conscious of the fact that it is no longer
> available for the anchor.
Your rack only weighs 20 pounds?? Lightweight!
> Some of the comments discussed the anchor only holding body weight. True as
> the second is coming up, but what about when the leader goes on to the next
> pitch and has not yet placed any gear?
You either re-inforce the belay, or the new leader can't fall. Being
aware of the potential consequences is part of the game called
survival.
> If the issue is lack of gear, the
> arrival of the second will fix that problem.
> But, if the issue is runout, you have a dangerous situation.
Indeed. And many of those of us who have been there have done our
absolute best to mitigate those dangers. I had a pin pop out of a
belay once on Calaveras Dome. Was hauling off the anchors while my
partner was jugging at the time. Being on an established route, I had
not added a bolt to the gear belay. The anchor consisted of 4
marginal pieces, two pretty good pieces, and two pretty poor pieces,
tied together with two cordelettes backing each other up. The pin was
one of my "pretty good" pieces. After the it popped, I added a bolt.
> I like to get enough beta not to get
> into such a situation. Maybe I have just been lucky
> so far....
Who goes there first to get you that beta??
What of them?
Routes don't just establish themselves.
> In any event, thank for the comments on my less-than-perfect post.
No worries.
Advice to pay attention to your anchors, to build solid belays, to pay
attention to potential factor 2 falls right off the belay is good
advice. I think very few of us responding would disagree with that.
[Brutus checks in with the other voices in his head] [nodding] Yep,
only one dissenter in there, and he's not too swift on safety systems
anyways.
Cheers!
[Brutus, arms wrapped about himself in his strait jacket smiles
beautifically and exclaims "Group Hug!"] of Wyde
Lg
> snip>
> the second is coming up, but what about when the leader goes on to the next
> pitch and has not yet placed any gear?
Just make sure you clip the anchor before leaving the belay and you're
all set. I'm teasing.
If the issue is lack of gear, the
> arrival of the second will fix that problem.
> But, if the issue is runout, you have a dangerous situation. I like to get
> enough beta not to get into such a situation. Maybe I have just been lucky
> so far....
Maybe. Or maybe you just haven't been extending yourself that much.
This thread reminds me of a time I was extending myself, nearing the
top of The Yawn in Tuolumne- see I believe in building penance credit.
Got a late start, I was stretching out the third pitch, sun just went
down and I managed to mantle onto a ledge and had just enough light to
check for placements. All I remember is an okay pink tri-cam and . . I
think that was it, maybe there was also a tiny cam, anyway, marginal.
I already had to set up a 5:1 to haul my buddy through the crux on the
second pitch. He's gettin' maxed, punchin' and fightin' that crack.
But since I was off-center from the fall line I had the rope over the
rock to provide friction. And as somebody already mentioned, kept that
rope tight on my partner.
As soon as he flops onto the ledge I'm off to take advantage of the
last few moments of twilight. Eyes adjust, it's low 5th to the top,
runnin' it and stretched that 60 out again to the flats. Dangerous?
yea, but if I didn't think I could climb I'd stay put. (Which I've
also had to do oh so close to the top of another route. Luckily
weather was in our favor.) So in my situation I could have just
started earlier and had options to perhaps downclimb to a better
belay, etc. But because I was there at that moment w/out headlamps and
losing light, going down or lowering off were not options, cranking it
up and goin' for the top was because if I didn't there wouldn't have
been that option just another 5 min. or so later.
So Jeffrey, The Yawn is waiting . . .
Peace,
Lg
Tim Stich
But if you...say...you love me and she says she hates me...but loves
my identical twin brother and...but...
(head explodes)
OK shuddap Mister Rules of Laws N' Such. You must be a frilly lahw-yer
realizing such things at such inappropriate times. Ya frou frou.
-Tim Stich
Tim Stich
> I got a free pass of the sort god only gives to drunks and climers.
Mine cost $20! That fucker.
6) Good thing god loves
> drunks and climers.
>
> rr
Well, if he DID love drunks and climbers and was listening to you,
then he would help me design, build and market my new pressurized
alcohol delivery bladder (not intended for water). Think Avalung.
There you are, falling, falling to your doom. All's good, but dammit!
You're sober.
Special sensors in my new device, well, *sense* that you are falling
and quickly fill your mouth with tasty, life-affirming alcohol. By the
time you hit, you are flyin'.
Oh yeah, I'm taking pre orders right now.
-Tim
Petrarch
of literacy is not permitted on Usenet and you are hereby banned forthwith.
-the NetCops.
stinkwagen <cspi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:461de1f6.0301...@posting.google.com...
> **************************
> Well, let's suppose there is a connection. I think that's a
> reasonable assumption. These guys worked themselves out of tough spots
> using grace and cool-headedness, and the payoffs were accentuated by
> the enormity of what they were able to avoid. > ---
> http://home.attbi.com/~cspieker/
stinkwagen
> You have used the word "enormity" correctly in this posting. Such a degree
> of literacy is not permitted on Usenet and you are hereby banned forthwith.
>
> -the NetCops.
I wish this were one of those web-based forums so I could put a little
gremlin with question marks over his head, or perhaps rolling eyes or
both. However, since this is rec.climbing I will just reply with,
"WTF?"
stinkwagen
> of literacy is not permitted on Usenet and you are hereby banned forthwith.
Oh, and BTW, since you appear to be posting from the UK and imply by
your post that you know all about words 'n stuff...what is the deal
with the continual use of the word "disorientated" in those Harry
Potter books??
Is that a word over there?
Sincerely (really),
Chuck
---
http://home.attbi.com/~cspieker/
Charles Vernon
> Looking through this excellent thread chock full of truly
> inspiring trip reports I noticed a pattern...
>
> Charles Vernon wrote
>
> > No anchors. We finish the route--best climb of my life.
> *********************
> and "Dingus Milktoast" wrote
>
> > One piece of lead protection in three pitches of climbing. And
> > no solid belay anchors at all.
> [...]
> > That climb [...] still stands out in my mind to this day as one of
> > the finest adventures I've had in the Sierra.
> **************************
>
> and "x15x15" wrote
> > we still DID NOT have anything to make a belay with. So off
> > he goes...............
> [...]
> > One of the most magical climbs I have ever done.
> ************************************
>
> Tales of double or triple-death runouts and each of these prolific
> climbers glowingly recall their experiences as superlatives among
> their lists of doubtlessy hundreds of climbing days.
Don't lump me in with these other two. They are truly talking about
"double or triple-death runouts". Multiple, entire pitches with 1 or
0 pieces of pro, on hard climbing, with bad anchors. I'm not in that
category. Plus I doubt I have much more than 1/5 the experience of
either fellow.
>
> Is this correlation between mortal peril and ecstatic recollection
> merely a coincidence, or did it just so happen that only the
> rec.climbers who gave enough of a sh*t to post had bad-belay days that
> coincided with their fondest memories?
In some ways yes it is a coincidence. The climb you quote me on
above, the "best climb of my life" (tied for it actually), would have
fit that bill with or without that human body anchor. It's a
testament to the climb itself, how well I climbed that day, my mental
state, and my partner that I call it the best *despite* being
unanchored high on the route. It's just that these "adventure climbs"
tend to be my favorites, on the rare occasions that I'm up for them,
and they're the climbs that tend to have these kind of moments or
situations.
Besides, I believed in my partner (and still do). Had I fallen
getting to his belay, I'm confident he would have held me. He has the
physique of an olympic weightlifter (an odd one for a good climber),
and was well wedged. I like the way he tricked me into thinking he
had anchors, but managed to let my subconscious know what was going
on--it gave me incredible focus without a corresponding level of fear.
This focus lasted--I led the next two pitches, charged up them in
fact, even though they seemed to be uncomfortably near my limit, with
so-so protection. I had the feeling that we had the resourcefulness
to outwit whatever the rock would throw at us.
>
> Well, let's suppose there is a connection. I think that's a
> reasonable assumption. These guys worked themselves out of tough spots
> using grace and cool-headedness, and the payoffs were accentuated by
> the enormity of what they were able to avoid. Truly memorable,
> fulfilling experiences. What interests me though is the relative lack
> of negative emotions concerning their "close" calls. I mean,
> wouldn't it be equally reasonable to be castigating yourself for
> walking so close to the edge? Apparently, in these stories, the good
> outweighed the bad far enough to keep these days in their top ten
> lists.
I didn't have any negative emotions after the climb. None. If I'd
come around that corner and it was anybody else (and I've had a couple
of other great partners, who I've done most of my climbing with)
giving me a body belay, I'd probably have freaked out and lost it. In
that case it would have been a sign of desperation. For reasons that
are hard to grasp, Luna turned it into an emphatic positive. Over
1000 feet up possibly the toughest route I've ever done, it gave me
the juice I needed to continue, and more. It underscored the level of
trust I didn't even quite know I had in my partner.
Incidentally, for anyone who read my post in the original "bad
anchors" thread, the partner in stories 2 and 3(the one I've been
refering to) was the same person. My first time climbing (outdoors on
a rope) with him, I was rather flabbergasted to find him giving me a
body belay (and that time, there was pro to be had). Undoubtedly, if
it had been anyone else at all, especially any other new partner, in
that situation, I probably would have been royally pissed, incredibly
frightened, and surely would never have climbed with him again. But
even then there was some instinct I followed that told me this guy was
OK. Had to have been, or I never would have agreed to do the hardest
and scariest climb of my life with him.
We don't climb together much anymore--he's gotten too good, and the
pendulum has swung back to sport climbing for him (and I've gotten too
fat), but we've become very good friends, and we have a great time
whenever we do share a rope.
Thanks for asking these questions--very provocative--and allowing me
to go off on yet more spasms of reflection.
Charles
Petrarch
1) Most folks use "enormity" as a synonym for "enormousness". It's a
pleasure to see someone using it correctly for once. But I'm afraid that in
this case the forces of reactionary pedanticism (e.g. yrs truly) are
fighting a losing battle.
2) Yes, "orientated" and "disorientated" are words over here. I'm a merkin
by origin, and even though I've been working as an editor in the UK for
purt' near 20 years they still bug the hell out of me.
BTW are you actually reading the UK editions of the Potter books, or did
they miss this when they translated them into "American"?
stinkwagen <cspi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:461de1f6.03012...@posting.google.com...