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TR: Vegas Vignettes

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Alex Chiang

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Jan 8, 2003, 12:27:43 AM1/8/03
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"Vegas Vignettes"


I. Full Disclosure
------------------
What are the ethics about informing your climbing partner that
you are about to do something completely dangerous?

One school of thought equates ignorance with bliss, the theory
being that if everything turns out ok in the end, it doesn't
really matter what transpired in the middle. No blood, no foul,
and what they don't know won't hurt them (or cause them to want
to kick your ass).

On the other hand, if you are trying to develop a partnership
that lasts longer than a single route, it behooves you to develop
an atmosphere of openness and trust. The more data points you
have to form an opinion about the person to whom you are
entrusting your life (of which you only have one), the better.
Full disclosure is the only way to go.

I don't have time to explore either of these philosophies because
Eric is about to run out of rope while four pitches up on Black
Orpheus, 160 feet out from his last (first, and only) piece. I've
been waiting for this moment for a while now, and have prepared
by removing half the pieces from my two-piece anchor. As the last
of the rope pays out, I unclip from the lone bolt belay and start
simulclimbing, hoping that he can find a belay spot before I
reach the blue TCU some forty feet above my head.

The climbing here is easy, but a fall would have rather serious
consequences. That's what I think to myself as I clean the TCU.
Luckily, at the belay, Eric understands and doesn't kick my ass.


II. Tragedy Strikes
-------------------
Cara is in the hospital. Eric and I learn this as we stagger to
the car some nine hours later. She's injured, but fundamentally
ok. A hold broke off in her hand while leading Guise and Gals,
and she fell pretty far due to a large amount of slack in the
system. She got tangled in the rope and flipped upside down,
smacking her helmeted head. Her ankle is twisted pretty badly,
and her weeklong climbing trip is no more, cut off at the second
day.

Refusing to buy crutches from the hospital, the ecology major
instead steals a beautifully gnarled pinyon branch from a
National Conservation Area and gamely gimps about camp using a
two-handed technique. We are sympathetic to her cause, but we
still get bellyaches from laughing at the sight.


III. Gems From the Red Book
---------------------------
I'm at a hanging belay on Pink Tornado, clipped into quarter-inch
bolts. There's an odd looking plate under one of the bolts that
says "7-15-1976 STATION". My birthday was yesterday. I'm on my
24th lap around the sun, having started on December 30th, 1978. I
slam in a Friend for backup.

Climbing with Larry means you never have to wait in line for a
route.


IV. There's More to Trad Climbing Than Climbing
-----------------------------------------------
Rachel asks me what pitch I want to climb. I've been studying the
SuperTopo for a few minutes now and without the slightest
hesitation, I say I want the second one. We're roped up at the
bottom of Varnishing Point, and before she heads up, I ask her if
she wants to take a quick glance at the topo so she knows where
to go.

Too late, she realizes that the first pitch is only 5.6, and
makes a few complaining noises, saying that she thought both
pitches were 5.8. This is the sort of thing that happens when two
somewhat selfish lead hogs climb together.

I laugh in her face. She's been a climbing bum for over 6 months
now, living out of her truck in Yosemite, scarfing tourists'
food, and climbing way more than me, but there's still a thing or
two I can learn her. He who controls the topo controls the route.


V. Nineteen Percent Climbing
----------------------------
We're back near Mescalito, which means we're nowhere near Juniper
Canyon. Eric, Steven, and I have made the mistake of assuming
that Arie, the fastest hiker, had a clue as to where he was
going.

Instead of tracing our steps back, we enjoy the challenge of
bushwhacking along the cliffline opposite the Brass Wall.
Eventually, Arie and I part ways with Eric and Steven near the
base of Geronimo, and we continue to the base of Black Dagger.

We take a breakfast break after carefully making our way up the
scary slippery slabs coated over with 3 inches of ice. I observe
the sun edge toward Black Dagger for a few minutes and then inch
away again. Hands numb, I convince Arie that climbing in the sun
would be much more enjoyable.

After a total of five hours of hiking, we're standing at the base
of Olive Oil. Roped up and ready to go, Arie leads off at 11:30.
We exchange gear at the top of pitch three, and I'm hauling ass.
I catch up to the party ahead at the traverse pitch and with a
wild gleam in my eye, ask if we can climb through. Frightened,
they acquiesce. At 12:45, we're unroped at the top of the Rose
Tower.

Another hour for the descent, along with some more random
hitching and hiking, and we're back at the campsite by 14:30.
Hiking to climbing ratio today was 6.5 hrs / 1.25 hrs.


VI. I'm a Big Jerk (and wildly hilarious too)
---------------------------------------------
It's been a good night at the casino. Now $200 richer, I jokingly
tell Cara that I'll treat her to Taco Bell for dinner. After the
shouts of "cheap bastard" die down, I inform her that I'll treat
her anywhere she wants, except for the Cheesecake Factory.

A bit of backstory here: a few months ago, Cara called me while I
was on my way to the Cheesecake Factory with a friend of mine who
happened to be of the female persuasion. Needless to say,
jealousy reared its ugly head, even though I was no longer within
Cara's jealousy jurisdiction, being that we were not dating
anymore.

A few months later, Cara came to visit me in Dallas and
immediately demanded to eat at the Cheesecake Factory. And
because I am a jerk who likes to tease her, I refused, stating
that not every girl gets to eat at the Cheesecake Factory.
Somehow, the humor did not go over well with her.

Anyhow, the nagging continues, and she claims that the only thing
in the entire world that she wants is to eat at the Cheesecake
Factory and that nothing else will please her. The incessant
mewling is more than I can take and I'm almost ready to give in
until an evil stroke of genius strikes.

"Ok -- we can eat at the Cheesecake Factory."

"YES!!! FINALLY!!!!"

"But -- I'm not going to treat you. Or, we can go ANYWHERE else
you want and everything's on me."

"Wahh!! That's not fair!!"

Pitting her mysterious sense of female grievance against her poor
grad student fiscal policy is a mastermind manuver that I am
extremely proud of. In the end, she sells out and I buy her
dinner at Bilbo's. Chalk one up for the male species.


VII. Always an Adventure
------------------------
Last day of climbing, and I'm looking forward to a relaxed day.
Today, we're a big group assaulting Mescalito. Eric, Karen, Arie,
and Nate are climbing Cat in the Hat. Poor Jeff has been suckered
into climbing with me and our plan is to ascend Cookie Monster
and meet up with the other four at the top of CitH.

Forty-five minutes after we split up, I'm wheezing and groaning
my way up a slick back to knee chimney. This is the most strenuous
5.7 I've ever climbed, and I wonder what happened to the nice
relaxed day I thought I was going to have.

We're both pulling off loose rock everywhere, and my already
trail-trashed knees are now getting a nice external beating as
well. So much for taking it easy.

On the other hand, I've never found this much booty on one climb
before. A largish nut, a big perlon-slung hex, an biner with
another nine nuts on it, and a small wired hex are my catch for
the day. Perhaps I'm getting repaid for the brand new 2.5 Friend
that I lost on Black Orpheus.

Anyhow, Jeff and I join up with the other four at the top of
CitH. We set up a single rope and simul-rap down. About 20 feet
above where we want to be, the rope runs out. Oops.

No problem -- luckily I'm carrying a second rope on my back, so
it's a simple matter to attach a few prussiks for backup, and
proceed to tie the two ropes together while standing on a narrow
downward sloping ledge. Jeff takes it in stride and we both work
on pulling the rope through the anchors while everyone else up
top wonders what the hell is going on.

Soon enough, we're all safely back on the ground, and my climbing
for the trip is done.


VIII. Closing Credits
---------------------
Dates: December 27, 2002 --- January 5, 2003

Routes:
* Johnny Vegas, 5.7, 4 pitches
* Black Orpheus, 5.9, 10 pitches
* Pink Tornado, 5.9, 6 pitches
* Topless Twins, 5.9, 1 pitch
* Varnishing Point, 5.8, 2 pitches
* Olive Oil, 5.7, 7 pitches
* Cookie Monster, 5.7, 5 pitches

Partners:
* Cara Ferrier
* Eric Brown
* Larry DeAngelo
* Rachel Arst
* Arie Spitz
* Jeff Long

Thanks guys!

Dawn Alguard

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Jan 8, 2003, 10:26:54 AM1/8/03
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Alex Chiang wrote:


> The climbing here is easy, but a fall would have rather serious
> consequences.

> She's injured, but fundamentally


> ok. A hold broke off in her hand

Jeez, Alex. Put these two things together in your head and use a
little common sense. I worry about you sometimes.

Dawn

Julie

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Jan 8, 2003, 11:41:10 AM1/8/03
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"Dawn Alguard" <da...@alguard.com> wrote

Just remember who trained him ...

Excellent write-up, Alex, I could practically hear you telling the
story.

JSH


Sunshine McGillicutty

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Jan 8, 2003, 12:11:39 PM1/8/03
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Dawn Alguard wrote:
>
> Jeez, Alex. Put these two things together in your head and use a
> little common sense. I worry about you sometimes.
>
> Dawn

THAT's FUNNY!

DMT

Alex Chiang

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Jan 8, 2003, 6:21:17 PM1/8/03
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* Dawn Alguard <da...@alguard.com>:

Well, yeah -- it wasn't the smartest thing to do, and I knew that
it wasn't smart at the time.

On the other hand, Eric couldn't hear me because of the wind, and
I didn't want to pull him off the rock and induce a 320' fall. I
guess I don't know the best way to deal with a situation like
this.

/Alex

Brian in SLC

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Jan 8, 2003, 7:07:49 PM1/8/03
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Alex Chiang <achian...@nyx.net> wrote in message news:<slrnb1ndme.og...@nyx3.nyx.net>...
> "Vegas Vignettes"

Great TR. But, you could not have been on Cookie Monster....(har har,
I thought quite solid and no harder than 5.5...).

Thanks!

Brian in SLC

Phil Box

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Jan 8, 2003, 7:18:15 PM1/8/03
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"Alex Chiang" <achian...@nyx.net> wrote in message
news:slrnb1ndme.og...@nyx3.nyx.net...
> "Vegas Vignettes"
Nice trip report Alex. I like the style you wrote it in.
...Phil...


Mike Garrison

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Jan 8, 2003, 7:12:49 PM1/8/03
to
Alex Chiang wrote:
>
> On the other hand, Eric couldn't hear me because of the wind, and
> I didn't want to pull him off the rock and induce a 320' fall. I
> guess I don't know the best way to deal with a situation like
> this.

Ask to borrow Inez's Talkabouts(tm).

-Mike

Guido

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Jan 8, 2003, 8:23:03 PM1/8/03
to
Mike Garrison

Or buy an even longer rope.

G


Guido

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Jan 8, 2003, 8:24:39 PM1/8/03
to
Brian in SLC wrote of:
> Alex Chiang's "Vegas Vignettes"

>
> Great TR. But, you could not have been on Cookie Monster....(har har,
> I thought quite solid and no harder than 5.5...).

And where'd you find the loose rock on that route?

Great TR, imaginative format and entirely entertaining.

G


Alex Chiang

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Jan 8, 2003, 8:58:08 PM1/8/03
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* Guido <we...@ghunter.mv.com>:

> Brian in SLC wrote of:
> > Alex Chiang's "Vegas Vignettes"
> >
> > Great TR. But, you could not have been on Cookie
> > Monster....(har har, I thought quite solid and no harder than
> > 5.5...).
>
> And where'd you find the loose rock on that route?

It was all over the place---inside the chimney and on the outside
face as well.

On the south shoulder of Mescalito, there is a dihedral with a
set of chains at around 200' up or so. If you continue toward the
back of Mescalito, the next route is Cat in the Hat.

If you go the other way, there is a largish prow, and then a
gigantic recessed corner/crack that we climbed inside (and had to
chimney up). There is a tree about 40' up with numerous slings
around it. At about 60' or 70', there is a chockstone with a
single green sling in the back of the chimney.

Higher up, the chimney pinches off and I found it much easier to
climb it lieback style, with occasional hand jams. Before you
join up with CitH, there is a 15' tall tower that is detached
from the main formation, and there's enough space between the
tower and Mescalito to easily walk through.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

> Great TR, imaginative format and entirely entertaining.

Thanks Guido (and everyone else with the nice comments)! They're
much appreciated.

/Alex

Guido

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Jan 9, 2003, 5:08:11 AM1/9/03
to
Alex Chiang describes Cookie Monster:

>
> On the south shoulder of Mescalito, there is a dihedral with a
> set of chains at around 200' up or so. If you continue toward the
> back of Mescalito, the next route is Cat in the Hat.
>
> If you go the other way, there is a largish prow, and then a
> gigantic recessed corner/crack that we climbed inside (and had to
> chimney up). There is a tree about 40' up with numerous slings
> around it. At about 60' or 70', there is a chockstone with a
> single green sling in the back of the chimney.
>
> Higher up, the chimney pinches off and I found it much easier to
> climb it lieback style, with occasional hand jams. Before you
> join up with CitH, there is a 15' tall tower that is detached
> from the main formation, and there's enough space between the
> tower and Mescalito to easily walk through.
>
> Does this sound familiar to anyone?

IIRC, there are two parallel dihedrals on the E side, the longer one (the
right of the two) is CM, running two long or three "old" length pitches
before it tops out and joins CiH.

The route can be easily approached by hiking up to and against the base of
the cliff to the right of the climb (N) several hundred feet, and following
the wall S (Left) through scrub until you jump up onto a small sloping bench
right below the chimney crack corner that is CM. The route is steep but
sweet, and alternates between stemming and jamming, with a section of fun,
body-sized chimney moves. Many consider this a superior set of pitches to
reach CiH's quality final pitch, requiring an approach pitch to comlete the
connection.

Not sure if this was your route, Alex, but then, that may be half the fun.

G


Mad Dog

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Jan 9, 2003, 2:59:28 PM1/9/03
to
Alex says...

>On the other hand, Eric couldn't hear me because of the wind, and
>I didn't want to pull him off the rock and induce a 320' fall. I
>guess I don't know the best way to deal with a situation like
>this.

I'm assuming Eric was leading the 4th class pitch. I don't have the topo here
at work and seem to remember pitch 4 as being the easy stuff. Regardless, I
like to develop strategy before leaving the ground, especially if there is a
strong possibility of soloing or simuclimbing as indicated on the topo, but it
also depends upon who I'm climbing with and what I know about how they feel
about those methods. So if you looked at the topo in advance and saw that the
route has a section of 4th in the middle, that would have been a good time to
mention that you would need to asses your options from the belay below.

I have simu-followed without prior arrangement when my partner needed a little
rope to reach an anchor, but only if they had pro reasonably close to where they
were and only if I felt absolutely certain that I would not fall. I would have
a hard time pulling out the only piece of lead pro without their knowledge of
what was going on. The way I remember the easy pitch on Black Orpheus is that
one could place periodic pro if one wanted to.

A. Cairns

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Jan 10, 2003, 8:00:40 PM1/10/03
to

Thank you, Alex.


> Pitting her mysterious sense of female grievance against her poor
> grad student fiscal policy is a mastermind manuver that I am
> extremely proud of.

This is the sort of thing that makes life occasionally worthwhile.

Andy Cairns

Cara Ferrier

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Jan 11, 2003, 7:06:04 PM1/11/03
to
WARNING: In the super, extremely rare event that Alex might be thinking
about developing a slight ego, all this talk about him just might fuel it.
(see also: Alex Chiang: Naked!; Alex Chiang Saved My Life; and Soloing at
Red Rocks.) A risk I will have to take.

Nine hungry climbers attacked a Vegas casino buffet last week and thus began
an evening of sharing climbing stories. A well-rounded mixture of crazy and
bold adventures, climbs close to or at epic proportions, and just down right
scary stories, all causing listeners to raise their eyebrows in shock and
horror.

And surprisingly (or not) every single story involved Alex.

Alex, my main climbing partner, taught me most of what I know about
climbing.

And I suddenly had one of those slideshow moments where you see all these
events in your life. A whirlwind of snapshots of my climbs with Alex.

'Yes, this is perfectly normal.' After getting one rap rope stuck above
and one stuck below us on Solar Slab in Red Rocks as it started snowing and
getting dark.

'Thank god, you don't know enough about climbing yet to be scared.' When
we had to do a 60-foot unprotectable traverse on a layer of moss and dead
pine needles in complete darkness in attempt to find the least dead rap tree
in Looking Glass, North Carolina.

'Yes, it is 8 am and we are going to do a 1 pitch climb, but bring your
headlamp just in case.' I have needed it every single time we have climbed
together. I learned my lesson after the above experience.

'You'll thank me later.' After somehow turning an easy 1-pitch climb into
at least 6 in Oklahoma.

'I want to make sure you get your moneys worth.' By giving me the
pleasure of bushwhacking the most difficult way to the base of every single
climb.

The slideshow goes on and on and on. I was suddenly horrified. Who have I
been climbing with and what 'bad habits' have I been taught? Other than how
to wear my helmet at a jaunty angle.

>> She's injured, but fundamentally
>> ok. A hold broke off in her hand

>Jeez, Alex. Put these two things together in your head and use a


>little common sense. I worry about you sometimes.

-Dawn Alguard

{laughter}

I have stopped worrying about Alex. Instead I worry about the rest of us
that keep roping up with him. I am not sure who is more mentally disturbed.
I have been accused of faking my ankle injury so that I didn't have to climb
with Alex for the rest of the trip. To that I say: No Comment.

[Alex's helmet]

> It'd probably do just as much good tucked away in the trunk
>of the car, though

-nafod40

This is really funny because Alex's helmet is ALWAYS in the trunk of the
car. What an incredible rarity that Peterson caught him wearing it that day,
although, that was back when Alex wanted me to think that John was a crazier
climber than himself.

>On the other hand, Eric couldn't hear me because of the wind,

Hey, Alex, what was that lengthy 'discussion' we were having about how you
really should bring those talkabouts of yours? Oh, yes, you didn't want me
to use them as a crutch when I was leading. Thanks for that, but perhaps
Eric would have appreciated it.


>> Pitting her mysterious sense of female grievance against her poor

>> grad student fiscal policy is a mastermind maneuver that I am
>>extremely proud of.

>Thank you, Alex. This is the sort of thing that makes life occasionally
worthwhile.
-Andy Cairns

Yeah, very funny. Very funny. What clever brilliance on his part.
Actually, I like to think that since he paid for dinner, I am the winner of
this little exchange. Thanks for the margarita, Alex!

And good luck to all who have an "Alex Chiang Experience."

-cara

"the 'former girlfriend' or maybe 'good buddy'"

(Thanks, Peterson)


eric

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Jan 12, 2003, 7:09:44 PM1/12/03
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On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, Cara Ferrier wrote:

> >On the other hand, Eric couldn't hear me because of the wind,
>
>
> Hey, Alex, what was that lengthy 'discussion' we were having about how you
> really should bring those talkabouts of yours? Oh, yes, you didn't want me
> to use them as a crutch when I was leading. Thanks for that, but perhaps
> Eric would have appreciated it.
>

Well after hearing Alex's side and Cara's side and the input of a few
others, I feel the need (as the person who had the joy of simul-climbing
with Alex when he cleaned the one piece of pro on the rope) to put in my
two cents.


Just to recap:

Alex and I have had the good fortune to be able to climb with excellent
seconds (in my case Karen and in Alex's case Cara) for the last few years.
Having a steady and constant second can have several effects on ones
climbing. On the positive side it means you get to lead EVERYTHING!!!,
which is generally a good thing. (It can also breed odd, aggressive
behavior when climbing with others who want to lead, see Alex climbing at
the Brass Wall with Rachel.) It means you get to develop a strong sense
of how your second will behave in most circumstances. As a result, if not
careful, you carry many assumptions with you when you climb with a new
partner.

Alex and I have known each other for several years, but I have no memories
of roping up with him outside the local gym. We were both going to be in
Red Rocks over New Years and both wanted to climb some harder, more
committing routes than our seconds would be interested in. The natural
solution was to rope up together and jump on something significant.
Alex's suggestion...

...The Black Orpheus.

5.10a, 11 pitches, no opportunity to bail once reaching the first anchor
with one rope...

...Sounds Perfect!!!!!

We decided to make an early start and walk in from the road. Cara kindly
dropped us off and drove away just as hail started to fall. Having
discussed little more than route and rack, Alex and I wandered through the
hail in the general direction of the gully leading up to The Black
Orpheus. After a short bivy under a rock, waiting for sufficient sun to
see the head wall, Alex and I were at the base of the approach slabs nice
and early. While the hail had subsided and the rock was dry, it was
damn cold and rather unpleasant storm clouds lapped at the top of the
Upper Painted Bowl.

Event 1 that we had not previously discussed: The weather.

Realizing that once started, the best (and possibly only way) off the
route would be the top, Alex and I both questioned what to do about the
weather. We hadn't previously discussed what kind of conditions we were
prepared to climb in. We both wanted to climb, yet neither of us wanted
to get hammered by a storm once on the route. Neither of us would be the
first to say "climb" or to say "head back to camp". While killing some
time, I had a second breakfast. Alex prepared for the climb by shedding
some pounds in the nearby bushes. Fortunately, we got a spot of blue in
the sky and both agreed the climb was on.

Event 2 that we had not previously discussed: The leader never runs out
of rope.

Now to say Alex and I hadn't roped up before doesn't mean we hadn't talked
about climbing or that I hadn't heard stories about climbing with Alex
from other people. I had heard of his many epics. I even had the
pleasure of helping him and Cara off his epic at Looking Glass NC.

On more than one occasion I had heard Alex use the line "The leader never
runs out of rope", something he apparently picked up from Larry. We never
really discussed it.

We were swapping leads and he had luckily found the "bolt and nut" belay
at the top of the 4th pitch. The 5th pitch, 190' of 5.2R was mine. I
really don't think of 5.2 as much to worry about. In fact, the 3rd class
slab approach to the base of the route was technically much more
challenging than this pitch. It is just one big slab, fairly shallow
grade, with lots of blocks for hands and feet. While technically easy, I
would definitely understand the R rating. Many of the blocks could easily
be lifted up and many others would simply crumble if pulled or stepped on.
I was careful what I weighted, but if something unexpectedly blew, it
would be interesting. In hind-sight I should have let Alex know the
condition of the rock, I didn't.

Although there were cracks between the blocks, which would take TCUs, the
condition of the blocks and the shallow, flairing nature of the cracks
didn't make placements seem too valuable. In hind-sight I should have let
Alex know the lack of placements too, but I didn't. The moving was fairly
fast, making it hard to determine just how far I was climbing. I wasn't
too concerned about myself. If I fell, which I thought was very unlikely,
I would have an unpleasant tumble down the slab, but Alex's anchors would
hold ( ;^P more of importance for him than me). I was just looking for a
solid place to set a natural anchor to bring up Alex. There was one
horizontal crack that looked reasonable, but it wasn't what I expected
from the topo, so (assuming I still hadn't stretched out the 55m rope) I
kept moving up. Fighting with some unpleasant rope drag (?? one piece on
a slab??) and calling slack a few times with no response, I found a place
for some anchors and figured if nothing else it would be a good place to
discuss the route with Alex.

I threw in a couple of cams and a nut, anchored myself in and called off
belay. No reponce. I went to tug on the rope a couple times, hoping to
get a response from Alex, only to find the rope was now full of slack. I
realized Alex was coming up behind me. As rapidly as I could, I pulled up
all the slack and put him on belay.

I had flashed through the 5th pitch and far enough through the 6th (5.0R)
to enable the remainder of the 6th and the 7th be tied into one. The
truth of the matter is that the likely hood of either of us falling was
next to zero. Those pitchs are so easy that a team could practically
unrope and walk up them together (NOTE: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS) and
everything worked out for the best. On the other hand my thoughts on the
situation are:

Information is always a good thing. I'd always rather know the situation
and have to deal with it, than be "protected from it" for fear that it
might effect my performance. Also, had I known I was near the end of my
rope I would have been more likely to find the proper belay at the top of
the 5th pitch. Worst case scenario, I would have had to "down walk" part
of the climb to the missed natural belay.

Of the two of us, Alex was probably put in the most danger by the
situation. I can only assume that the "rope drag" was me yanking on Alex
while he was trying to climb. Had I know he was there I could have been
much more considerate in my pace. Also, because I didn't know he was
climbing, there was a significant period where Alex was climbing off belay
while I was setting up the anchor. Had I not known him as well as I did,
he might not of ended up on belay until his head popped up at the anchor.

In hind sight, I should have better informed him of the condition of the
rock and the lack of pro.

It was a great climb, reasonable weather, no epics and a great partner that
I would definitely climb with again.

As for "The leader never runs out of rope". I can see situations where
down climbing or hanging out would not be an option. I can also see
situations where the time advantage on easy climbing would make it worth
while. For the most part though, I think it is something that both
parties need to be very much aware of.

Climb on
Eric

BTW the super-topo is great, definitely recommend it.

__________________________________________________________________
Eric Brown

Beckman Lab
3637 Beckman Lab
217-244-7647

Talbot Lab
209a,b,c Talbot
217-244-0774

Fax 217-244-5707

WWW
http://www.autonomic.uiuc.edu/brown.html
http://www.geocities.com/en-brown/


A. Cairns

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Jan 12, 2003, 10:42:25 PM1/12/03
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Cara Ferrier wrote:

<the words of Alex Chiang>

> 'You'll thank me later.'

I nominate this for rc greatest hits. For me, the funniest rc moment to date.

> I like to think that since he paid for dinner, I am the winner of
> this little exchange.

In a good con both parties are satisfied.


Thank you, Cara, for the warning.

Andy Cairns

MMooney727

unread,
Jan 8, 2003, 10:17:45 AM1/8/03
to
Well done Alex.

Thanks

Alex Chiang

unread,
Jan 13, 2003, 2:29:57 PM1/13/03
to
Hey good buddy,

I've been waiting to see how long it would take you to respond
here. Nice to see that you finally made it.

> WARNING: In the super, extremely rare event that Alex might
> be thinking about developing a slight ego, all this talk about
> him just might fuel it. (see also: Alex Chiang: Naked!; Alex
> Chiang Saved My Life; and Soloing at Red Rocks.) A risk I
> will have to take.

Considering that all the discussion is associating my name with
'crazy', 'danger', and 'epic', I assure you that my ego is in no
danger of inflation.

> 'Yes, it is 8 am and we are going to do a 1 pitch climb, but
> bring your headlamp just in case.' I have needed it every
> single time we have climbed together. I learned my lesson
> after the above experience.

I'll plead guilty to those other comments you attributed to me,
but this one is pure exaggeration. We've climbed at the gym
plenty of times and have never once needed headlamps. So there.

> The slideshow goes on and on and on. I was suddenly
> horrified. Who have I been climbing with and what 'bad
> habits' have I been taught?

If building character is a bad habit, then I'm worse than
smoking, gambling, and whoring sonuvabitch with a forty oz.
bottle of fine malt liquor in each hand.

>>> Pitting her mysterious sense of female grievance against her
>>> poor grad student fiscal policy is a mastermind maneuver that
>>> I am extremely proud of.
>
>> Thank you, Alex. This is the sort of thing that makes life
>> occasionally worthwhile. -Andy Cairns
>
> Yeah, very funny. Very funny. What clever brilliance on his
> part. Actually, I like to think that since he paid for dinner,
> I am the winner of this little exchange. Thanks for the
> margarita, Alex!

Two entrees at Bilbo's: $18.75
One margarita at the same : $4.75
Working out post-relationship issues on an international forum: priceless

> And good luck to all who have an "Alex Chiang Experience."

If only I could market it as well as the Jason Liebgott
Experience.

/Alex

Alex Chiang

unread,
Jan 13, 2003, 2:43:53 PM1/13/03
to
* eric <en-b...@students.uiuc.edu>:

> Now to say Alex and I hadn't roped up before doesn't mean we hadn't talked
> about climbing or that I hadn't heard stories about climbing with Alex
> from other people. I had heard of his many epics. I even had the
> pleasure of helping him and Cara off his epic at Looking Glass NC.

Just in case people are wondering about this one, I posted a
mini-TR a while back.

http://www.chizang.net/alex/achiang/achiang.dyinglight.html

> On the other hand my thoughts on the situation are:
>
> Information is always a good thing. I'd always rather know
> the situation and have to deal with it, than be "protected
> from it" for fear that it might effect my performance.

Yes -- you, Mad Dog, and I all believe that more communication or
discussion is important. In retrospect, we probably should have
tried harder to communicate (ie, rope signals or talkabouts or
etc). The wind made things difficult.

Oftentimes, you just pick a solution and hope for the best. We
got lucky (likely because we already had a high probable success
rate to begin with).

> It was a great climb, reasonable weather, no epics and a great
> partner that I would definitely climb with again.

Agreed!

/Alex

stinkwagen

unread,
Jan 13, 2003, 4:22:29 PM1/13/03
to
eric <en-b...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message

> The
> truth of the matter is that the likely hood of either of us falling was
> next to zero. Those pitchs are so easy that a team could practically
> unrope and walk up them together (NOTE: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS)

I don't see why not. You seem to be defending Alex's method that appears to
be just as dangerous. At least when soloing next to each other, you wouldn't
have to worry about being killed or maimed by the OTHER guy falling.

Chuck

Mike Garrison

unread,
Jan 13, 2003, 5:25:18 PM1/13/03
to
stinkwagen wrote:
>
> [eric says they could have unroped and simul-soloed]

>
> I don't see why not. You seem to be defending Alex's method that appears to
> be just as dangerous. At least when soloing next to each other, you wouldn't
> have to worry about being killed or maimed by the OTHER guy falling.

Unless he falls on you. When scrambling/soloing you always
have to think about the fall line and whether you are in
someone else's.

But yeah, if there is no anchor anyway then I would prefer
to be unroped.

-Mike

eric

unread,
Jan 13, 2003, 5:44:44 PM1/13/03
to

Dude, I am just saying climbing has risks. What I choose to do is my
business. What Alex and I did, worked out. For the situation (both in
terms of climbers and rock) it was cool.

Choose your own risks, I won't recommend you take any.

If you (Chuck) want to recommend that other climbers should take more
risks, I'll let you take the liability.

Climb safe for your level of skills/head/dependents.

Climb on,
Eric

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