Leading with 3 people, tell me your methods.
MadHermit
met a woman(love of my life) who actually likes the outdoors and have
since tought her to climb(hence the 3rd). I need tips/tricks on
leading with a 3rd for this summer and most of the books ive checked
out at rei/ems/hudson trail dont say much about the subject. Any help
in this matter is graciously appreciated.
The MadHermit
Dawn Alguard
We have some info on this in the FAQ:
http://www.tradgirl.com/climbing_faq/advanced.htm#simulbelay
Dawn
Nate B
"MadHermit"
> Last year I met a woman(love of my life)
> who actually likes the outdoors and have
> since tought her to climb(hence the 3rd).
Awww - [insert baby talk] - how cute. I'll bet your old partner is just as
enamored. Do you two kiss at the belays? How about a warm group hug with
the old partner in the middle?
> I need tips/tricks on
> leading with a 3rd for this summer
> and most of the books ive checked
> out at rei/ems/hudson trail dont say
> much about the subject.
Pretty simple stuff - two ropes - second comes up as normal with second rope
in tow - bring 3rd up. The second leaves some gear in for the third if the
pitch traverses. Try this first for awhile before you attempt the various
techniques for bringing both second and third up at once.
> Any help
> in this matter is graciously appreciated.
Saturday with the chick, Sunday with the old partner. Mixing will always,
without exception, eventually end in doom.
- Nate
Steve E.
"MadHermit" <likemyl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f7d1999d.02071...@posting.google.com...
> I need tips/tricks on
> leading with a 3rd for this summer and most of the books ive checked
> out at rei/ems/hudson trail dont say much about the subject. Any help
> in this matter is graciously appreciated.
>
> The MadHermit
If your going to belay the second and third in sequence instead of
simultaneously, just make sure everyone knows in advance that it will be a
very slow day. Learning to belay two people at the same time in auto-locking
mode on a Petzl Reverso is safe, and not hard to do. Just make sure you use
two full size lead ropes instead of double or half ropes (see reverso
technical update on the petzl site). It will much improve your efficiency,
and it's kinda fun climbing with one of your partners right nearby anyway.
Some people have commented that it can be hard to give slack once the device
has locked, but if you read the instructions, there is a relatively easy way
(albeit non-intuitive) to give slack.
-Steve
JerryGarcia'sGhost
The MadHermit
aka Jerry Garcia's Ghost
Dagmar Wabnig
wrote:
>Ive lead numerous times with a partner but never with 3. Last year I
>met a woman(love of my life) who actually likes the outdoors and have
>since tought her to climb(hence the 3rd). I need tips/tricks on
>leading with a 3rd
just use 2 ropes and the third leads the 4th
dax
Frederick 'Fritz' Weihe
> >Ive lead numerous times with a partner but never with 3. Last year I
> >met a woman(love of my life) who actually likes the outdoors and have
> >since tought her to climb(hence the 3rd). I need tips/tricks on
> >leading with a 3rd
>
> just use 2 ropes and the third leads the 4th
this reminds me of the other day, when I and some friends went
cragging as a threesome. We wanted to tick off the local classics,
"Right Away", "Next", and "After That". The climbers were
Felix F. You
Alan B. Who,
and myself.
Who asked if you wanted to lead right away, and he said no, he wanted
to lead next, and I said right away? and he said no, you can do right
away after that, and I was confused and asked who wants to climb next,
and you said no, but he did, but not right away. I said that was
perfect because I wanted to climb right away, but he could climb next
and who could climb after that, and you said nobody. I didn't know
what you meant but he was racking up. I said hey who said you could
lead next and who said no I didn't and you said i'm not climbing next
I'm climbing right away and you will climb after that.
etc
faw
Hal Murray
>simultaneously, just make sure everyone knows in advance that it will be a
>very slow day. Learning to belay two people at the same time in auto-locking
"There is more to life than speed." (From a poster with a turtle and flowers,
I think. A friend from India had it.)
I've had a lot of fun climbing as a group of 3. Yes, you generally move
slower than a rope of 2. But you have somebody else to carry a rope on
the hike in, and another person to be supportive when the leader is
struggling on a hard move or the clouds or whatever are threatening.
You can save a lot of time by having the middle person do things like
put the gear back on the rack while the leader is belaying up the third
or get food/water out of the pack.
--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
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These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
Lg
When climbing in a party of 3 I usually use 2 ropes (each being a
single- I use a 9.4 and 9.5) and belay them appx. 10 feet apart at the
same time using a Gi-Gi. This method alone requires much experience to
become proficient. Because this belay device is uni-directional, don't
'trap' yourself by not knowing how to lower your second or third
independently if need be. Sometimes, depending on the terrain we'll
switch to 'caterpillar' style (climbing in sequence). Or, depending on
the situation we'll put one rope away and all climb on one rope.
With this method the second is attached with a 2' bight of rope by
putting an overhand at each end of the bight. Two lockers connect the
second to the bight. It works out really well if one person does all
the leading. However the old partner may want to lead also. So with
two leaders it's best to lead in blocks so you don't have to undo the
bights each time (as you would if you swung). You do have to manage
the rope when the same leader leads but with practice this is not a
problem - (neat, small piles and just flip; rope hooks and turn; flake
over tie-in and flip; push bights through sling and turn).
Recently I climbed Braille Book in the Valley with two friends on one
rope (9.5 50m). John led two, me two and him again the last two and
Jessica cruised on the bight the whole time. She had a daisy chain to
clip in immediately, I'd have another locker hanging ready to slap in
a Munter for John, then converted it to a clove for his lock-off.
A guy climbing with his gal caught up to us at the end of the fourth
pitch and commented on how efficient we were moving for a party of 3.
They never would have caught us if he didn't stretch out the 2nd and
3rd pitch, he actually came up short and had to deal with that. He
said he always heard of the system we were using but never seen it in
action. After that we didn't see them again until we were on the
descent when he waved to us from the summit.
This method is best on straight forward climbs within the groups
comfort range without traverses. Since the second doesn't clean the
third can use the gear to clip in to if the second is having to figure
out the moves and the third is caught is a tenuous spot. Extra
vigilance is needed to keep the rope taut at all times. Bomber anchors
are a must. The second must not climb above the overhand knot on the
rope. Make sure the bight is not too long so that the second can reach
the biner to take their rope out without having to give them slack.
The stronger or more experienced climber between the second and third
goes last to help out the second. Be careful not to stretch out
pitches, using a 60m is helpful. Don't make the second and third too
close in case the second falls they don't break the neck of the third.
Didja get all that? Oh yea, don't forget the group hug when you get
back to the car. We did. Peace~
Lg
Karl Baba
1. Take your time and just belay the second up and then the third. If
the second can belay the third up, sometimes I'll rap down a bit and
coach or take pictures. Everybody looks at the view and socializes.
2. If they like the idea, belay them both up at the same time with
either two gri-gris (if you think they might fall much or need
lowering) or a reverso.
3. Sometimes I'll either rope solo or free solo (trailing the rope and
placing directionals) the next pitch while the second belays the third.
This makes things go really fast.
I might use a couple of these methods on a single climb depending on
the route. Belaying two people on the same rope is not a great option
in my experience unless the climbing is trivial or there is just a
simple roped section on an alpine scramble route.
Peace
Karl
--
Guide Guy
http://member.newsguy.com/~climbing/
Maohai Huang
> Recently I climbed Braille Book in the Valley with two friends on one
> rope (9.5 50m)...[the third?] cruised on the bight the whole time.
> She had a daisy chain to clip in immediately,
> Extra
> vigilance is needed to keep the rope taut at all times.
I am not sure how is the second is connected to the rope (you
mean you have only one 50m rope, right?)
> Bomber anchors
> are a must. The second must not climb above the overhand knot on the
> rope.
what overhand knot?
> Make sure the bight is not too long so that the second can reach
> the biner to take their rope out without having to give them slack.
what biner? who do you refer to when you say "their" and "them"?
> Didja get all that?
no.
Lg
> lg...@hotmail.com (Lg) wrote
>
> > Recently I climbed Braille Book in the Valley with two friends on one
> > rope (9.5 50m)...[the third?] cruised on the bight the whole time.
> > She had a daisy chain to clip in immediately,
>
> > Extra
> > vigilance is needed to keep the rope taut at all times.
>
> I am not sure how is the second is connected to the rope (you
> mean you have only one 50m rope, right?)
Correct. "With this method the second is attached with a 2' bight of
rope by
putting an overhand at each end of the bight. Two lockers connect the
second to the bight." This enables the second and third to have a
little 'play' laterally besides the distance in the rope between the
two. (appx. 10') For instance, the second is climbing or on a stance,
but the third falls. With the cowstail, the second does not get pulled
off, theoretically. So far, I haven't had any problems with the "third
falling and yanking the second off" scenario. I've had the second fall
hard several times but not affecting the third in any way.
>
> > Bomber anchors
> > are a must. The second must not climb above the overhand knot on the
> > rope.
>
> what overhand knot?
Again, there are two overhand knots. One in line with the rope, at the
'base' of the 2' bight and one at the other end of the bight, which is
the climber's end, connected with 2 lockers. If the second climbs
above the overhand on the rope, they just created slack.
>
> > Make sure the bight is not too long so that the second can reach
> > the biner to take their rope out without having to give them slack.
>
> what biner? who do you refer to when you say "their" and "them"?
The biner that attaches the pro to the rope. The second will have to
take their rope out in order to continue. If the cowstail is too long,
the second will not be able to reach to unclip because the overhand on
the rope will hit the pro's biner and get pulled up out of reach;
unless slack is given by the belayer.
>
> > Didja get all that?
>
> no.
Now?
Lg
p.s. If there is any doubt how long the belays will be, use a 60m. I
happened to climb Braille B. a week earlier so I knew a 50m would work
on that particular climb by losing a few extra feet for the extra
climber on the cowstail. With an appx. 1 hr approach, 6p. climb and
even longer descent, the fifty and the rack divided between 3 partners
was nice.
Jason Perez
Karl Baba <gu...@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote:
>
>
>I might use a couple of these methods on a single climb depending on
>the route. Belaying two people on the same rope is not a great option
>in my experience unless the climbing is trivial or there is just a
>simple roped section on an alpine scramble route.
A friend of mine has belayed 2 people on the same route several
times at Potrero on some of the multi-pitch routes there. 1st
leads, then 2nd comes up, tied (butterfly or similar) into the middle of a 70m rope,
then 3rd comes up after 2nd is at top of pitch. Usually this works,
sometimes if the pitch is long the 2nd (and 3rd after) has to
climb up a bit so the leader can make the top of the pitch.
-Jason
--
Jason Perez | "Frodo Lives!" "Gig 'em!"
Austin, TX