Major Trauma coming back to climbiing
Zeev Glozman
First i'd like to tell the story, a buddy of mine and me climbign a
trad route, at a sport crag, common occasion in Israel, not too much
rock here. I was first i seconded. Just a few meters to the left there
was a stance for one of the sport route, (Amerika super shut ankor
from fixe). For those of you who are not familiar it allows to clip
the rope form the top, almost like a notmal carabie. The two rings
were set up almost without space between them. So I traversed, and
blayed him form a station set on a large rock. then we doubled the
rope and threw it down. My buddy rapped and i was supposed to rap
after hip. I don't remember much, of this whole thing, because one i
loaded the rope, it unclipped form the binners, and i fell some 20-24
meters to the gound together with the rope. i know this is every
climbers nightmare. So i am almost 3.5 months after the injury. It
resulted to a pelvic fracture, hip, hand/wrist ( a very nasty one),
teath, jaws (lefort 1) for those who know what it is, another words
nothing fun. I have to admit that i was very much disappointed in
everybody, because, i just can not forget how everyone was busy
explainiing that this is my fault, and that i jumped on the stance
form above, or something else. The truth is i was not even aware of
the possibilty of the rope unclipping form a stance, it is just
something you don't think about, since you think the stance is secure.
I tried to climb at the art. wall here, on am easy route, i did okay,
but i just can not forget what happend, espessially since it majorly
limits my life, and i am not sure wheather i need this thing or not.
First i would like to know has anyone had a simmilar accident?
and second i would just like to talk to someone with similar
expirence...
should i sell the gear and forget about it all?
Zeev
David Kastrup
> I have to admit that i was very much disappointed in everybody,
> because, i just can not forget how everyone was busy explainiing
> that this is my fault, and that i jumped on the stance form above,
> or something else. The truth is i was not even aware of the
> possibilty of the rope unclipping form a stance, it is just
> something you don't think about, since you think the stance is
> secure.
Not thinking about things is a very bad habit.
> First i would like to know has anyone had a simmilar accident?
The books are full of it. It is one of the most basic rules never to
climb above an anchor which is threaded or clipped or something like
that.
> should i sell the gear and forget about it all?
It depends. If you can wrap your mind about the idea that climbing
is inherently unsafe and that every piece of gear can fail in
multiple ways and that you have to think about the manner in which it
can fail and listen to experience either by other people or by books,
you can think about it.
If, on the other hand, you are of the opinion that accidents like
yours should not be allowed to happen, that you should not be forced
to think about risks, that it is impolite to point out your mistakes
to you... if that is your frame of mind, then continuing climbing can
kill you. Of course, it can kill you even if you accept
responsibility for your own survival, but trying not to blame yourself
for your own mistakes is more deadly in the long run.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
Phil Box
"David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org> wrote in message
news:x5n0k4k...@lola.goethe.zz...
Hear hear, well put David. I`m totally with you on this one mate.
...Phil...
Zeev Glozman
>
> > I have to admit that i was very much disappointed in everybody,
> > because, i just can not forget how everyone was busy explainiing
> > that this is my fault, and that i jumped on the stance form above,
> > or something else. The truth is i was not even aware of the
> > possibilty of the rope unclipping form a stance, it is just
> > something you don't think about, since you think the stance is
> > secure.
>
> Not thinking about things is a very bad habit.
>
> > First i would like to know has anyone had a simmilar accident?
>
Either way i did not know of it. Can you perhabs point me to a book?
The General
news:4931bb8d.03030...@posting.google.com:
I have come very close to death three times in 20+ years of climbing.
Climbing is a dangerous sport, and no matter how safe you try to
be, you will screw up. Its kind of a crap shoot. Most of us get away
with the screw up, but statistically someone on this newsgroup has to
pay. Alot of dumbasses on this newsgroup will tell you climbing is safe
if you follow all the rules and triple check everything. But all the
real old time trads have their stories, where it could have gone either
way.
The anchors you used may need to be pulled, and the geometry changed,
or someone else may get hurt. It may not have been your fault.
This type of accident happens at Williamson Rock a few times every
season.
Peace abnd Love
The General
Zeev Glozman
Sir,
I think you are right, and thinking back of what happend, there is no
way i could have prevented it, because i simply did not know. As far
as it goes with geometry, i think if the the two bolts are apart and
there is a hight difference this can not happend, on the other hand
what is the right geometry for such anchor ? how is it supposed to be
used? Apperently some climbers think they are better, or smarter then
others, and they are allways thinking and nothink like this will
happend to them, well hopefully not.
In israel it is a small community and now everyone knows....
David Kastrup
> I think you are right, and thinking back of what happend, there is
> no way i could have prevented it, because i simply did not know.
Not knowing about safety rules like not overclimbing an anchor does
not imply "no way I could have prevented it". Of course, every
situation is different, but that is why one should always actively
try to picture whatever may happen in certain circumstances.
You owe it to yourself not to push away responsibility for your own
decisions away from you.
Zeev Glozman
I don't know what you know about owing uself.
But, for the sake of the matter i was not above the anchor, i
definatly did not climb over it, since i came form a side on a shelf
below the anchor in traverse. I was useing a very old hard rope, my
guess is that when i pulled the rope to clip in the 8 it twisted above
the anchor....... Now off course you should completly transfer your
weight to the new belay before disabliing the old one, and to make
sure the rope is okay. I did check the rope was okay, before i clipped
in the figure 8.......... So all knowing climber like you for sure
could have prevented it, but i could not, i did things the same way
as allways. Truth is I DID NOT KNOW about such possibiility, otherwise
i would have checked again.... Do you know the clipping in figure 8
can unclip the rope ?
Zeev Glozman
BTW I think it is pretty ignorent what you are saying, because
certain things are a COMBINATION of events, sometimes of misstakes, or
combination of both together. In my case it was 1. it was a dark day,
2. it was a dark static rope that looked almost like the rock. the
stance was painted in the color of the rock, plus relaxation after
trad leading a hard route.
Martin Carpenter
"Zeev Glozman" <zglo...@netvision.net.il> wrote:
> BTW I think it is pretty ignorent what you are saying,
> because certain things are a COMBINATION of events,
> sometimes of misstakes, or combination of both together.
Zeev,
I don't see anything ignorant in what David has written. Coherent, and yes,
general ("think about what you're doing"; "it's important to know safety
rules *such as* X"). I don't think he was trying to attack you, but it's
understandable that you might interpret his comments personally under the
circumstances.
My sincere wishes for a swift and full recovery. And yes, I hope I'd climb
again if I were in your shoes - just to prove to myself that I could -
although I can see that's going to be an especially hard decision to explain
to friends and loved ones. Good luck.
Martin.
Tom Jones
> Hello all
>
(snip)
>
> First i would like to know has anyone had a simmilar accident?
> and second i would just like to talk to someone with similar
> expirence...
> should i sell the gear and forget about it all?
>
> Zeev
Well, now that you've been raked over the coals on that one...
It takes a while to come back. Like a year or two. Your body has to
physically recover and start feeling athletic again. Then you have to
build confidence in your ability, and specifically in your ability to
take falls (on the rope) and not get hurt. Took me about a year and a
half after breaking my back. Five years later, I'm all better, except
for the 15 lbs I put on, being 5 years older and having moved my
passion to other activities. Have I sold my gear? Can't do that, too
emotional. Besides, I promised Rob a wall this spring...
Tom
nafod40
> David Kastrup wrote...
>>
>>
>>>I think you are right, and thinking back of what happend, there is
>>>no way i could have prevented it, because i simply did not know.
>>
>>decisions away from you.
>
> BTW I think it is pretty ignorent what you are saying, because
> certain things are a COMBINATION of events, sometimes of misstakes, or
> combination of both together.
Actually it is good news if you are totally responsible, because that
means it is totally in your power to fix it. I probably couldn't do the
real scary stuff unless I believed it was mine to screw up. Delusional
perhaps, but it works.
Mike