Updates on Cirque Du Soleil's discrimination against people with HIV
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
carousel horse, so technicality.... ;-)
The quickie version of this is that Cirque Du Soleil in it's latest
statement to the San Francisco Human Rights Commission, they admitted that
they will not hire performers who are HIV positive. You can skip to the
bottom for the latest and some links.
In any case, in many discussions in this newsgroup about other things to do
while in Vegas and Orlando (and elsewhere) to ride coasters, Cirque Du
Soleil's shows have come up as an option. This led to a brief discussion
-- one I admittedly started -- of the fact that they fired performer
Matthew Cusick from their Mystere show in Las Vegas for no other reason
than because he had HIV
A few people here claimed that I didn't have all the "facts". They claimed
that they did offer him another performing job. They also claimed that
there were probabaly other factors in Cusick's firing.
Well, their sources turned out to be an ANONYMOUS post made to a gay
news/discussion site by someone claiming to be the significant other of a
performer who read about the case on another anonymous discussion group for
Cirque performers. That's a source almost as good as the Dippin Dots guy!
And those "facts" appear to not be true. It seems that they never did
offer him another performing job. And they openly admitted that the ONLY
reason that they fired him was because he had HIV. They claimed that "Our
employment decision was made solely for safety reasons." Cirque themselves
denied the talk of there being other factors, such as his performance or
attitude, as some Cirque fans here claimed (despite having no actual
knowledge.
In fact, their statements about the alleged risk associated with the
performances is suspect itself. There is not a single known case of HIV
transmission from athletics or gymnastics. Long time AIDS experts have
come out against their decision. Athletics and gymnastics organizations do
NOT recommend ANY restrictions on HIV positive athletes and performers. In
fact, Cirque's own doctor cleared him for his performances.
But the latest statement from Cirque is even more damning. They are now
openly admitting that they will not hire HIV positive people for
performance jobs. Instead, perhaps, they should be dishwashers! Yet,
somehow, despite this being against the law, they try to claim that it
isn't discrimination.
The San Francisco Human Rights Commission has started another investigation
against Cirque. In their statement to the commission, Cirque said, "There
are many employment positions that would be suited to an individual with
HIV. These positions include dishwashers, dining room attendants, prep
cooks, box office staff, box office assistants, ushers, hosts/hostesses,
food and beverage staff, public sales assistants, merchandising staff and
hawkers. Any one of these positions could be filled by an individual with
HIV."
It will be interesting to see how Cirque's supporters here will defend
these actions. Of course, they'll use fear and ignorance, not science, in
doing so. The simple truth is that there is negligible risk of HIV
transmission from ANY of Cirque's acts. The risk of injury and death form
the performances themselves is actually significantly greater. And the
simple truth is that in firing Matthew Cusick and in continuing to refuse
to hire performers who have HIV, they are violating the anti-descrimination
laws of the United States and most states.
Nevada's Equal Employment Opportunities Commission in Nevada should be
finishing up their investigation this month. Given Cirque's own
statements, I can't imagine that they're going to prevail. But will they
settle, or take it to full court, where they'll undoubtedly lose?
And now picket lines are showing up at Cirque shows.
Something to think about before you buy a ticket....
The latest updates, including quotes from Cirque's letter to the San
Francisco Human Rights Commission:
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1383
Cirque's open admission that they fired Matthew Cusick only because he had
HIV:
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1366
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=1365
More info:
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/cases/record?record=185
David Hamburger, davi...@STOPSPAMbellatlantic.net, Boston, MA
PLEASE remove "STOPSPAM" from my address when replying via e-mail.
"I think that gay marriage is something that
should be between a man and a woman,"
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
Walt Breymier
(David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply) wrote:
>And now picket lines are showing up at Cirque shows.
Jesus, and here I thought that I would probably never go to a Cirqe
du Solay show in my life.
But the opportunity to walk through one of those picket lines seems
like it could make it worthwhile!!
Walt Breymier
AirtimeJunkie
>du Solay show in my life.
>
> But the opportunity to walk through one of those picket lines seems
>like it could make it worthwhile!!
>
I guess if you had HIV then you might think differently.
Kevin
Evil One
Or if you were a screaming, flaming queen like David Hamburger presents
himself.
I went to La Nouba again on Satuday. Oh no! I AM THE ANTI-GAY!!!1!
hogfat
> Athletics and gymnastics organizations do
> NOT recommend ANY restrictions on HIV positive athletes and performers.
does not the nba cease all play at the simple sight of blood?
Rastus O'Ginga
<bigb...@camprrc.com> wrote:
>
> Jesus, and here I thought that I would probably never go to a Cirqe
>du Solay show in my life.
>
> But the opportunity to walk through one of those picket lines seems
>like it could make it worthwhile!!
>
> Walt Breymier
I don't know. When I go to acrobatic shows, I always like the added
excitement of that possibility of catching an incurable fatal disease
if someone gets injured near me.
Rastus O'Ginga
Winner of the 2nd Annual C. Montgomery Burns Award for
Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.
"What an awful dream, 1s and 0s everywhere... I thought I saw a 2." - Bender
ANTI-BED-WETTING-LIBELRAL DISCLAIMER:
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AirtimeJunkie
>
>
I never said that anyone who goes to see a Cirque show is anti-gay, so I'm not
sure why you made that particular comment. Based on the fact that a few of my
HIV+ friends are healthy and fine, my personal choice is to no longer spend my
$ on Cirque shows as I do not agree with their hiring practices.
Kevin
"who LOVES Cirque du Soleil shows"
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
Why is that? If I had an incurable fatal disease, I wouldn't go
around acting like it's my right to put others at risk of catching it.
If you have AIDS, the people around you should know it, PERIOD. It is
not your right to not tell me I will die if some of your blood enters
my body.
lkng4chubs
securly cleaned and covered. OMG, I actually know a basketball fact.
"hogfat" <hog...@dizzle.orgies> wrote in message
news:QDIKb.61976$fq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Iain Hendry
> I don't know. When I go to acrobatic shows, I always like the added
> excitement of that possibility of catching an incurable fatal disease
> if someone gets injured near me.
LOL! I woulnd't think there'd be any more risk there than standing behind
someone with AIDS on an ecsalator.
In fact, I bet someone's far more likely to fall on the escalator and get
their AIDS all over you than one of the Cirque performers. I don't think
they go flying off into the audience bleeding with any sort of frequency.
Iain
Rastus O'Ginga
<military...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Rastus O'Ginga" <ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't know. When I go to acrobatic shows, I always like the added
>> excitement of that possibility of catching an incurable fatal disease
>> if someone gets injured near me.
>
>LOL! I woulnd't think there'd be any more risk there than standing behind
>someone with AIDS on an ecsalator.
>
>In fact, I bet someone's far more likely to fall on the escalator and get
>their AIDS all over you than one of the Cirque performers.
Another reason why AIDS is taken way too lightly in this society.
> I don't think
>they go flying off into the audience bleeding with any sort of frequency.
Why is that? It's a very physical performace with people flying all
over the place. Plenty of opportunities to get cut. Obviously it is
a big deal or they never would have made such an un-PC move when they
probably have a very heavily gay audience and troop.
William J. Buckley
allow known HIV+ people into the country (well, from Canada at least...)?
Rastus O'Ginga
Because the gays think they should get their way.
Plain and simple: AIDS kills, and can not be cured. As an added
bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
possibly spit.
Now, why the fuck would I want to be around someone with it at all,
let alone in any sort of physical situation.
HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!!
Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
people with AIDS.
Ron-Pmon1
>let alone in any sort of physical situation.
Maybe because the possibility that a loved one will get HIV and you will have
to be around them, or will you just abandon them? Or maybe you have no loved
ones because of your ignorant attitude? Wake up.
_______
/- Ron -\
\- Pmon1-/
**********
Iain Hendry
> >In fact, I bet someone's far more likely to fall on the escalator and get
> >their AIDS all over you than one of the Cirque performers.
>
> Another reason why AIDS is taken way too lightly in this society.
I'm confused....? What do you mean? I was just making a comparison. I
think that if you spend any time in public you're subjecting yourself to
that risk, not just when you go see a performance. Like, if you're in an
airplane, what if the plane crashes, and someone with AIDS gets sucked into
the engine, and they spray a huge AIDS blood cloud over an entire city?
Maybe you should start wearing a mask.
> > I don't think
> >they go flying off into the audience bleeding with any sort of frequency.
> Why is that?
Skill?
> It's a very physical performace with people flying all
> over the place. Plenty of opportunities to get cut. Obviously it is
> a big deal or they never would have made such an un-PC move when they
> probably have a very heavily gay audience and troop.
I don't know, I was kind of under the impression that like all gay people
had AIDS anyway.
Iain
William J. Buckley
"Iain Hendry" <military...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6BSKb.17467$AAe1...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> I don't know, I was kind of under the impression that like all gay people
> had AIDS anyway.
All gay people and all drug users, last I knew < /sarcasm >
Rastus O'Ginga
> Maybe because the possibility that a loved one will get HIV and you will have
> to be around them, or will you just abandon them? Or maybe you have no loved
> ones because of your ignorant attitude? Wake up.
Hey, good idea. I should make it a point to spend lots of time with
folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
life choices caused them to contract. I bet if I did that, the
chances of a loved one getting it would even increase.
Great idea, dumbass.
Sam Marks
>folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
>life choices caused them to contract.
ugh, there ya go again!
Yea I'm sure someone's gonna CHOOSE a lifestyle that would result in deadly
disease.
Get with it, silly child, did you CHOOSE to be Straight?
Thomas
> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 04:30:08 GMT, "William J. Buckley"
> <vze1...@verizon.netNONE> wrote:
>
> >I'd like to know how this is any different than immigration laws that do not
> >allow known HIV+ people into the country (well, from Canada at least...)?
>
>
> Because the gays think they should get their way.
No. I wasn't aware that all HIV-infected people were gay. I wonder
what that says about Magic Johnson.
>
> Plain and simple: AIDS kills, and can not be cured. As an added
> bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
> possibly spit.
Ummm No. You cannot be infected through spit. It's amazing that
people will claim doctors don't know what they are talking about,
especially when the individual making such a claim has no scientific
background whatsoever.
>
> Now, why the fuck would I want to be around someone with it at all,
> let alone in any sort of physical situation.
>
> HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!!
Nope. They are not. Do you avoid people suffering from cancer? Even
if an HIV-infected person does start bleeding, unless you drink
his/her blood or rub an open wound on the blood you have nothing to
worry about.
>
> Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
> should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
> to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
> people with AIDS.
>
That is definitely the most ignorant statement I've ever read. When
you show me your science degree from an accredited University, then
maybe I'll consider your argumentation (unlike me, who does have a
degree in biochemistry). You cannot "catch" AIDS unless there is an
exchange of blood, semen, vaginal secretion, or breast milk.
But it really doesn't matter what you think. It is against FEDERAL
LAW to discriminate against persons with HIV. Plain and simple.
Unless you are engaged in sexual intercourse with an infected person
(or sharing needles, for that matter), then you are NOT being exposed
to the virus. You do not have any legitimate legal or scientific
argument to make your point, other than your bigotry.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
Kevin, Moschella is probabaly the most self-hating gay person who has ever
posted to RRC. Don't take anything he says personally. It's a shame that
he feels the need to attack anyone in here (gay or not) to build up his
sense of self worth to make his life tolerable. It's truly sad.
If you still want to watch Cirque's performers, but don't want to support
the companies, you can see most of their shows for free on Bravo regularly.
Or download the videos on your favorite file-sharing service.
It's interesting, though. When I posted on this subject, he stated that I
should get the facts. His "facts" turned out to come from anonymous posts
to a gay news site. So, when I actually DID get the rest of the facts, and
posted them here, he had nothing constructive to say, as usual, and
resorted to homophobic name-calling. So VERY typical.
And come on, guys, even I know better than to try to get into anything
resembling a rational discussion on HIV with Rastus. I loved Iain's
hysterically sarcastic comment about a person with HIV getting sucked into
the engine of a plane!
A whole lot of us have been to a lot of Cirque shows over the years. Just
a question: has anyone actually ever been spattered with blood? I know I
sure as hell haven't. I love this ridiculous hysterical notion that the
performers are just bleeding all over the place. If that were true, I
doubt that they'd have ever become the international sensations that
they've become, HIV fears or not. Yes, people pay to get spattered with
paint at Blue Man Group, but I suspect that spattering people with blood
wouldn't go over quite so well! ;-)
But all of this will come to a head in the next month. The NV Equal
Employment Opportunities Commission will be finishing up their
investigation shortly. And let's be honest here. Cirque doesn't have a
legal leg to stand on.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
legal advice? I mean, really, what kind of idiot lawyer would tell a
company to tell the SAN FRANCISCO Human Rights Commission that there are
good jobs for people with HIV: dishwashers and ushers?!? Seriously, I'd
have thought that they were smarter than that. I mean, they have basically
just HANDED the victory to the other side, while opening themselves up to
nationwide challenges to their illegal hiring practices.
Perhaps it's just more of the arrogance that they are famous for. I
suspect that they just assume that they are so special that they can get
away with anything they want, regardless of the law. They've already been
cited for child labor law violations repeatedly.
Should we start a pool on how much they end up settling for? Then again,
they might just be arrogant enough to go against any sane legal advice and
take it to full court, expecting to win, and losing BIG.
I wonder how many other cities and states that they visit will investigate
the illegal hiring practices of the company when they travel. San
Francisco already is. I'm sure New York will. They're also coming to
Boston. While they are appearing outside the city, the state also has an
anti-descrimination law which covers disability and HIV status. They're
also in violation of Federal laws.
I'm sure their lawyers will be kept very busy. All because of irrational
ignorance that is dated by over a decade and is now generally only spewed
by ignorant people like Rastus.
Rastus O'Ginga
I don't know. But I do choose to not share needles, or have
unprotected sex with a group of humans known to have a very high
occurrence of AIDS.
To do otherwise would be beyond stupid, and quite honestly, deserving
to face the consequences. The gall these people have to think it's
their right to not tell anyone they have a deadly, incurable,
contagious disease is simply beyond comprehension.
To think there should be a law protecting such things is putting your
personal desires over that of Humanity. I doubt St. Peter has much
time for such folks.
Rastus O'Ginga
Sam Marks
>HIV
>Path:
>lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!feed2.newsreader.com!news
reader.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!n
ewsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.level3.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
>From: ras...@kingwoodcable.net (Rastus O'Ginga)
>
>I don't know. But I do choose to not share needles, or have
>unprotected sex with a group of humans known to have a very high
>occurrence of AIDS.
That would be the people of Africa right?
kipross
"Rastus O'Ginga" <ras...@kingwoodcable.net> wrote in message
> Hey, good idea. I should make it a point to spend lots of time with
> folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
> life choices caused them to contract.
Tell that to my childhood best friend who was a hemophiliac, received a
tainted blood-transfusion, and died of AIDS when he was fourteen years old.
-kipross
AirtimeJunkie
>Why is that? If I had an incurable fatal disease, I wouldn't go
>around acting like it's my right to put others at risk of catching it.
>
>
t-shirts that identify them as one who has AIDS?
Your obvious paranoia only confirms what people have thought all along. Please
educate yourself, buddy.
AirtimeJunkie
>let alone in any sort of physical situation.
>
>HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!!
>
>Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
>should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
>to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
>people with AIDS.
>
You really are an ignorant person, aren't you? Did it ever cross your
shriveled up mind that people with AIDS are "people" and that they might have
something called feelings and compassion? How dare you to be so ignorant and
uncaring to make such statements. Your really are an idiot and I fee sorry for
people like you. You are such a disgrace to mankind.
Kevin Coley
AirtimeJunkie
>unprotected sex with a group of humans known to have a very high
>occurrence of AIDS.
So if someone is having sex with an HIV+ person, it means that they're having
unprotected sex? Wow, as a gay person, that's new to me.
Willards Whizzer
>
>Like, if you're in an
>airplane, what if the plane crashes, and someone with AIDS gets sucked into
>the engine, and they spray a huge AIDS blood cloud over an entire city?
>Maybe you should start wearing a mask.
LMAO. I'm only quoting a part of it, but this is a great post, Iain. The fact
that it's so ridiculous further drives home the nonsense of some of the
arguments going on here.
Thanks.
Jerry
"C'mon and take a Free Ride." -- Edgar Winter Group
SheppSF
bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
possibly spit. >>
Spit, my Aunt Fanny. Can you cite a reliable source for that idiot factoid,
preferably one you don't receive through the fillings in your teeth?
<< HIV+ people are treated like a disease BECAUSE THEY ARE A DISEASE!!! >>
At long last, sir, have you lost all sense of decency?
(Well, um, yeah...)
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
Great example! That's why people with AIDS need to be identified and
have to let others know of their disease.
Rastus O'Ginga
<military...@hotmail.com> wrote:
...drivel...
So, you basically think AIDS is a fairly unimportant health issue, and
not really a threat to folks?
DeadAndRestless
>folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
>life choices caused them to contract. I bet if I did that, the
>chances of a loved one getting it would even increase.
>
Yes, because there are lots of people who chose to take dirty blood at
hospitals following car accidents knowing full well what might just happen!
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>time for such folks.
I seem to remember "do not judge, lest ye be judged himself" being in the
bible. Remember that one? God, that stuff killed in 29AD!
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>So, you basically think AIDS is a fairly unimportant health issue, and
>not really a threat to folks?
>
Are you having unprotected gay sex, Jason?
-
Alan
Iain Hendry
> ...drivel...
>
> So, you basically think AIDS is a fairly unimportant health issue, and
> not really a threat to folks?
No, not really. I find other things more enamouring to stew over. Like
where Canada Post has displaced my new snowboard. There are countless other
life threatning diseases that could capture you at any point.
Iain
Rastus O'Ginga
>
>No. I wasn't aware that all HIV-infected people were gay. I wonder
>what that says about Magic Johnson.
>
Yeah, you're right, hardly AIDS victims are gay, what was I thinking.
>>
>> Plain and simple: AIDS kills, and can not be cured. As an added
>> bonus, it is easily passed from person to person through blood, and
>> possibly spit.
>
>Ummm No. You cannot be infected through spit.
Yeah, again, you're right. People never ever have blood in their
mouth.
>
>Nope. They are not. Do you avoid people suffering from cancer?
Umm, no becuase cancer isn't contagious.
> Even
>if an HIV-infected person does start bleeding, unless you drink
>his/her blood or rub an open wound on the blood you have nothing to
>worry about.
Hmm, I wonder how many non-gay people buy that. It amazes me how far
gays go to try and marginalize the seriousness of AIDS, yet in the
next breath talk about how badly we need AIDS research. Then of
course, they want to be treated as disabled from the AIDS too. But,
they also want totally anonymity so no one knows that they have a
fatal, incurable, contagious disease.
>
>>
>> Whether or not they deserved to get the disease doesn't matter. Thye
>> should realize that us folks who DON'T have AIDS aren't really looking
>> to acquire it. And that can be easily accomplished by avoiding all
>> people with AIDS.
>>
>That is definitely the most ignorant statement I've ever read. When
>you show me your science degree from an accredited University, then
>maybe I'll consider your argumentation (unlike me, who does have a
>degree in biochemistry).
Should I fax you a copy of my Bachelor of Science degree in Chemical
Engineering from Purdue University?
> You cannot "catch" AIDS unless there is an
>exchange of blood, semen, vaginal secretion, or breast milk.
Of course vomit and spit often contain blood. And of couse, sweat can
mix with blood coming out of a cut and sling off of your body too.
Ever watch a professional or college basketball game? When blood
shows up everything stops IMMEDIATELY and the bloody players must
leave until every drop of blood is cleaned off of them and their
uniform. I wonder why all those millionaire NBA players wanted that
rule?
>
>But it really doesn't matter what you think. It is against FEDERAL
>LAW to discriminate against persons with HIV.
Ahh, I was waiting for that. It was ruled that you can't deny medical
treatment of an AIDS victim. That was then broadly extrapolated to
discrimination in general by AIDS activists. The validity of that
extrapolation has yet to be proven. If it was true, the whole CDS
case would have been thrown out of court, and it obviously was NOT.
Discrimination NEVER trumps public health concerns, as any non-moron
would know. If it did, a blind person could sue Metro for
discrimination for not giving them a bus driver job. The Court has
ruled that when health is a concern, discrimination is moot. And
AIDS, regardless of your stupid biased opinions, IS a MAJOR health
concern. And it ain't getting any less major with time.
> Plain and simple.
>Unless you are engaged in sexual intercourse with an infected person
>(or sharing needles, for that matter), then you are NOT being exposed
>to the virus. You do not have any legitimate legal or scientific
>argument to make your point, other than your bigotry.
Ahh, that's right, since I don't agree with your obvious expert
opinion, I'm a bigot. I'm sure you think I'm a racist, homophobic,
agist, Nazi too.
The US public will absolutely NEVER accept AIDS as a non-issue to
public health. Obviously becuase that would be insanely stupid.
Just give it up.
DeadAndRestless
>
>Umm, no becuase cancer isn't contagious.
What about Hepititus?
-
Alan
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
>You really are an ignorant person, aren't you? Did it ever cross your
>shriveled up mind that people with AIDS are "people" and that they might have
>something called feelings and compassion? How dare you to be so ignorant and
>uncaring to make such statements. Your really are an idiot and I fee sorry for
>people like you. You are such a disgrace to mankind.
>
>Kevin Coley
The world is full of bad things, and we ALL deal with them. But to
think that your personal suffering is more important than the safety
of the rest of the world is so self-centered it should be a crime.
If people with AIDS have compassion, they should realize that it is
important that they don't spread it to others and give them the
disease. They should realize how horrible it is to have it.
I don't think folks with AIDS are evil or bad people, but they
absolutely ARE a health risk to everyone on this planet. That's got
to suck for them, but it simply does not lessen their risk to
everyone. How can you not understand that?
Do they spread their disease at will to the public? Of course not.
Do they pose a threat to where a simple accident could end up having
fatal consequences? Yep!
It's the same tired argument we hear from convicted sex offenders.
Dispite an extremely high reoccurance of offending, the fuckballs
think their privacy outweighs the risks they pose to society.
We better start letting retarded epileptic people drive. Damn, how
insensitive are we.
Iain Hendry
> What about Hepititus?
OMG! That reminds me. There was blood on the skating rink downtown last
weekend, and my friends and I were joking that the blood was in the shape of
an airplane, and it was the "Hepititus Airplane", and it would deliver
Hepititus to all the good little girls and boys. Joyeux Noel!
Iain
Rastus O'Ginga
Rastus O'Ginga
If it's so minor, why is there a World AIDS Day. I mean, there isn't
a World Cancer Day.
Nobody wears Cancer ribbons.
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
>>>Nope. They are not. Do you avoid people suffering from cancer?
>>
>>Umm, no becuase cancer isn't contagious.
>
>What about Hepititus?
Yeah, I guess we shouldn't be able to knwo if the cooks at restaurants
have Hepitius, right? After all, that would discriminate against
them. Folks with Hepititus should be allowed to secretly be waiters
and chef's.
DeadAndRestless
>Dispite an extremely high reoccurance of offending, the fuckballs
>think their privacy outweighs the risks they pose to society.
>
This comparison is totally invalid. Sex Offenders are criminals. AIDS patients
are not. What other things should we do? Should liberals be forced to wear
insignias showing their political affiliation? Should those of Sub-Saharan
distiniction be differentiated (they might have Ebola!)? Native Americas (Hanta
virus!) War vets (Legionnaires!)?
>We better start letting retarded epileptic people drive. Damn, how
insensitive are >we.
Do you consider allowing AIDS patients to exist in society to be of an equal
danger as to allowing retarded epileptics to drive? You can't possibly be
serious?
-thinks its funny that a circus perfomer getting an artery tapped and flying
into a crowd is a definite possibility, whereas a gay dude with AIDS getting
sucked out a cargo door on a A300 and put through a jet engine isn't-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>
>Yeah, I guess we shouldn't be able to knwo if the cooks at restaurants
>have Hepitius, right? After all, that would discriminate against
>them. Folks with Hepititus should be allowed to secretly be waiters
>and chef's.
I see; so you're okay with a normal waiter or chef bleeding into your food?
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>>hospitals following car accidents knowing full well what might just happen!
>>
>>-
>> Alan
>
>Huh?
They're called "blood transfusion", Jason. Say it with me. B-L-O-O-D
T-R-A-N-S-F-U-S-I-O-N-S.
-
Alan
Sam Marks
>
>
>Rastus O'Ginga
hellooooooooooo
PINK RIBBONS???
IDIOT
Sam Marks
>(Well, um, yeah...)
he will NEVER have any
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
You were talking about D-I-R-T-Y B-L-O-O-D, and people knowingly
taking it. This is some defense of AIDS? We need AIDS tainted blood
for transfusions, so people can live so they can die a painful death
later?
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
Oh, that's right, I remember everyone wearing those at Oscar night
every year.
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
If I have ot choose between one without a fatal, incurable, contagious
disease, or someone with AIDS. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll choose the
normal one. You go right ahead and choose the one with AIDS. That'll
make him feel better, I'm sure.
William J. Buckley
"Rastus O'Ginga" <ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net> wrote in message
news:387pvvkrtusjdhafm...@4ax.com...
> So, you basically think AIDS is a fairly unimportant health issue, and
> not really a threat to folks?
In all sincere honesty, Jason? Yes. HIV infection is NOT as easy to
"acquire" as you may believe. In fact, you really have to want to try to
get it to get it.
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
I've gotta say, Alan, I didn't think you could prove yourself less
intelligent to me. But you successfully have.
And, I feel continuing the argument with you may actually lower my
intelligence, so I have to bow out now.
William J. Buckley
"kipross" <kip...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:s-udna62LNf...@comcast.com...
> > folks with incurable, transmittable, deadly diseases that their own
> > life choices caused them to contract.
>
> tainted blood-transfusion, and died of AIDS when he was fourteen years
old.
>
> -kipross
I hear ya, Kip. Best buddy of mine..."straight" as an arrow...received
"tainted" blood after a *nasty* motorcycle accident in 1982. I'll never
forget how _all_ of his "friends" and his family disowned him when he came
down with AIDS in 1989. So sad...how so many people judged him for things
he never did based upon circumstances out of his control. Simply not fair.
-b "who was a friend through to the end, regardless..."
William J. Buckley
"Rastus O'Ginga" <ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net> wrote in message
> If people with AIDS have compassion, they should realize that it is
> important that they don't spread it to others and give them the
> disease. They should realize how horrible it is to have it.
>
> I don't think folks with AIDS are evil or bad people, but they
> absolutely ARE a health risk to everyone on this planet. That's got
> to suck for them, but it simply does not lessen their risk to
> everyone. How can you not understand that?
Ya know, Jason...I always used to cut you some "slack" when everyone else on
RRC thought you were an asshole and just wished you would drop dead. But I
gotta say -- given your notes in this thread -- you lead me to believe you
are of the same narrow mindset as my ex-boss (fired, btw!) who FIRMLY
believed that "the world's AIDS crisis would be solved (!) if we only just
put all of the AIDS people on an island somewhere ... isolated from the rest
of us 'normal' people!"
I don't believe you're much farther from his stance, no?
Iain Hendry
> And, I feel continuing the argument with you may actually lower my
> intelligence, so I have to bow out now.
Dude, you just got AIDS.
Iain
Iain Hendry
arguments :)
Iain
DeadAndRestless
>disease, or someone with AIDS. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'll choose the
>normal one. You go right ahead and choose the one with AIDS. That'll
>make him feel better, I'm sure.
I wouldn't choose either. If someone bled into my food, I wouldn't eat it.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>taking it.
I was using this literary element called "sarcasm". No one would take dirty
blood knowingly.
>This is some defense of AIDS?
How do you defend a disease that causes certain death (unless you have the coin
for really expensive meds)?
>We need AIDS tainted blood
>for transfusions, so people can live so they can die a painful death
>later?
Who's supporting AIDS tainted blood transfusions? I'm certainly not.
This is a stupid argument to have in the first place. Not everyone that has
AIDS knows it, and those who do know it probably aren't going to donate blood.
Besides, even if they did, blood should be tested anyways. Unless, of course,
you think that by forcing people with non-curable, communicable diseases to
identify themselves is good enough for blood donation screening (which almost
seems to be your argument).
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>intelligent to me. But you successfully have.
>
>And, I feel continuing the argument with you may actually lower my
>intelligence, so I have to bow out now.
Awww. I must have hit a nerve. Besides, unless you're banging other gay men in
the ass (or shooting up heroin with your buddies), why would you be so paranoid
about AIDS anyways?
-
Alan
Wolf
>
> Nope. They are not. Do you avoid people suffering from cancer?
Cancer isn't communicable. It may be hereditary, but it's not communicable.
AIDS, although limited in this ability to only be a biohazard level 3
disease [I believe, might be a 2], is.
--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf
Sam Marks
>Awww. I must have hit a nerve. Besides, unless you're banging other gay men
>in
>the ass (or shooting up heroin with your buddies), why would you be so
>paranoid
>about AIDS anyways?
>
>-
> Alan
Probably those scantily clad women at IAAPA he's always drooling over. Wonder
if his wife knows what he does when he's away.........
Wolf
> >
> >Umm, no becuase cancer isn't contagious.
>
> What about Hepititus?
Both treatable and vaccinateable.
Shoot, what about rabies?
Bad choice, maybe.
DeadAndRestless
>
>Both treatable and vaccinateable.
>
AIDS is at least treatable, though the drugs are rather expensive. Are there
vaccines for Hep B & C?
>Shoot, what about rabies?
>
>Bad choice, maybe.
Wouldn't just about any VD work?
-
Alan
Wolf
patients
> are not. What other things should we do? Should liberals be forced to wear
> insignias showing their political affiliation? Should those of Sub-Saharan
> distiniction be differentiated (they might have Ebola!)? Native Americas
(Hanta
> virus!) War vets (Legionnaires!)?
For what it's worth... aren't all three of those populations usually
quarantined when symptomatic?
Apparently there is now a vaccine for Ebola [post- and pre-infection]. Has
something like a 50% effectiveness. The trick to Ebola is to survive for
more than three days. If you can last that long, the disease isn't that hard
to fight of. It's just that the effects of it are usually fatal. (50-99%,
depending on the strain in question)
DeadAndRestless
>quarantined when symptomatic?
I made the point to show how silly it was to blame one group for the existance
of a disease. Besides, a ever increasing number of cases are of black men who
contracted it through heterosexual sex.
A good example otherwise would be the SARS scare of this year. Should the US
and Canada have forced those of Asian descent into quarantine as soon as it
started to hit the shores?
>Apparently there is now a vaccine for Ebola [post- and pre-infection]. Has
>something like a 50% effectiveness. The trick to Ebola is to survive for
>more than three days. If you can last that long, the disease isn't that hard
>to fight of. It's just that the effects of it are usually fatal. (50-99%,
>depending on the strain in question)
Heh...its a helluva 3 days though. Has anyone ever done studies on its after
effects on the body? Much like how smallpox caused external scarring and polio
caused paralysis, I'd expect Ebola to do a number on internal organs (possibly
high rates of internal bleeding, scarring of muscle and organs, ulcers, etc).
-btw Wolf, you hitting up PKD/BGW opening weekend?-
Alan
Wolf
> >
> >Both treatable and vaccinateable.
>
> AIDS is at least treatable, though the drugs are rather expensive. Are
there
> vaccines for Hep B & C?
I got my third round of prophylactic Hep B vaccine yesterday, actually.
[I work with human tissue in my grad program]
So yes. I believe A,B, and C all have vaccines, although of varying
effectiveness. I know A and B do, anyway.
> >Shoot, what about rabies?
> >
> >Bad choice, maybe.
>
> Wouldn't just about any VD work?
No. Herpes, maybe, but that's not strictly fatal. AIDS is fairly unique in
that it's both unpreventable and largely untreatable (in that it usually
remains communicable once extant).
Rastus O'Ginga
It's a bit of a risk assessment, though. The consequences are pretty
darn severe. Severe enough I'd rather take my chances down to zero.
And, c'mon, if it was so damn hard to catch, why is it such an
epidemic?
Wolf
US
> and Canada have forced those of Asian descent into quarantine as soon as
it
> started to hit the shores?
No. Although expat Canucks...
I don't think Rastus is advocating the detention of homosexuals, though.
We basically *did* quarantine people with SARS symptoms, though.
> Heh...its a helluva 3 days though. Has anyone ever done studies on its
after
> effects on the body?
Probably, although I'm unfamiliar with them. It's an admittedly small
population. =) If you did survive, though, odds are good you never
experienced the full effect of the symptoms. What I gather is that survivors
never experienced the full hemorrhagic fever, which is always fatal. [Blood
oozing from the pores of your skin will do that.] If you can prevent it from
reaching that stage, you're okay. What's ironic is that anti-coagulants can
be used to treat it, even though the fatal stage is precipitated by a
complete inability to thicken blood. [Ebola gets you by causing massive
coagulation, which basically exhausts the body's clotting ability and chokes
off the liver, leading to the end symptom of a massive bleed.]
It's a relatively new disease to modern medicine, although it's apparently
been around for a fairly long time in some remote locations.
> Much like how smallpox caused external scarring and polio
> caused paralysis, I'd expect Ebola to do a number on internal organs
(possibly
> high rates of internal bleeding, scarring of muscle and organs, ulcers,
etc).
>
> -btw Wolf, you hitting up PKD/BGW opening weekend?-
Might. When is opening weekend? I was toying w/ hitting Thunderhead's
opening.
Rastus O'Ginga
<vze1...@verizon.netNONE> wrote:
>Ya know, Rastus...I always used to cut you some "slack" when everyone else on
>RRC thought you were an asshole and just wished you would drop dead. But I
>gotta say -- given your notes in this thread -- you lead me to believe you
>are of the same narrow mindset as my ex-boss (fired, btw!) who FIRMLY
>believed that "the world's AIDS crisis would be solved (!) if we only just
>put all of the AIDS people on an island somewhere ... isolated from the rest
>of us 'normal' people!"
>
>I don't believe you're much farther from his stance, no?
Well, from your previous post, this is hardly an unbiased topic for
you, so I think that has a big influence on your opinions.
But, don't you think that if we make sure AIDS infected folks can
remain anonymous, there will be MORE folks like your friend? Is that
what you want?
I mean, the same people who have damn near banned peanuts from
airplanes think AIDS infected people should be able to do anything in
anonymity. Does that make an ounce of sense? Protect those 5 people
with peanut allergies, but let the millions of folks with AIDS run
free anonymously?
Lke I said, it's not against those with AIDS one bit. But you have to
take what life deals you and put what's best for humanity above what's
best for you.
What are your feelings on hepatitis? Should folks with that be able
to run around in society unknown too?
What about SARS? Would you be crusading for the rights of SARS
victims to ride the NY subways as much as they want without being
persecuted? Sure, AIDS is not as contagious as SARS, but it is 100%
fatal, while SARS is about 10%.
When I had mono in college, I immediately told my roommate and we
split up the dishes and were quite careful. He, or his girlfriend
didin't get it. I could have just kept it a secret and let them get
it too, but good Lord, that wouldn't have been right.
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
>> A good example otherwise would be the SARS scare of this year. Should the
>US
>> and Canada have forced those of Asian descent into quarantine as soon as
>it
>> started to hit the shores?
>
>No. Although expat Canucks...
>
>I don't think Rastus is advocating the detention of homosexuals, though.
Nope, simply keeping track of them and dealing with them with extra
caution, for obvious reasons.
Just like suspected terrorists. A society can not be 100% free,
that's called anarchy. Those with good reason to be watched MUST be
watched for the greater good.
It seems you are in pre-med, or something similar? Not surprisingly,
you aren't exactly saying I'm wrong.
The folks on here obviously don't know much about health care. A very
close family friend is the head of the largest hospital back home, and
one hell of a doctor. He makes no bones at all about the seriousness
of AIDS and hepititis.
DeadAndRestless
>remain anonymous, there will be MORE folks like your friend? Is that
>what you want?
Again, you're assuming all AIDS patients are of one group (which they aren't)
and that they know they have the disease (which they don't).
>I mean, the same people who have damn near banned peanuts from
>airplanes think AIDS infected people should be able to do anything in
>anonymity.
Someone who has an allergy to peanuts will have a serious reaction and may die
on the flight, causing the plane to be rerouted at extreme cost to the airline.
Not only that, but the lack of info on packaging may cause them to be sued. As
a result, pretzels are preferable because they cost roughly the same and don't
create the same risk for a airline (which, considering the large numbers of
people they put through, is fairly substantial).
>Protect those 5 people
>with peanut allergies, but let the millions of folks with AIDS run
>free anonymously?
This is assuming people with AIDS are a direct threat to the public health,
which almost all medical professionals agree they aren't. Unless you're having
unprotected gay sex or shooting heroin, of course.
>Lke I said, it's not against those with AIDS one bit. But you have to
>take what life deals you and put what's best for humanity above what's
>best for you.
No you don't. You put what's best for humanity above what's best for you every
day, Rastus? Strange philisophical point that you of all people are making.
>What are your feelings on hepatitis? Should folks with that be able
>to run around in society unknown too?
What is the alternate solution? Brand them? Force them to wear a patch of some
sort that indicates to others "I HAVE A BLOOD BORNE PATHOGEN. STAND CLEAR IN
CASE I AM STABBED IN A MAJOR VEIN"?
>What about SARS? Would you be crusading for the rights of SARS
>victims to ride the NY subways as much as they want without being
>persecuted? Sure, AIDS is not as contagious as SARS, but it is 100%
>fatal, while SARS is about 10%.
That's precisely why people with SARS is a greater danger to the public. Its
airborne, which AIDS is not. In order for AIDS to be a threat to people who
don't bang people without condoms or who don't shoot heroin, you have to have a
wild series of events, e.g., the AIDS infected man spraying blood wildly onto
people, all of whom have open cuts and sores.
>When I had mono in college, I immediately told my roommate and we
>split up the dishes and were quite careful. He, or his girlfriend
>didin't get it. I could have just kept it a secret and let them get
>it too, but good Lord, that wouldn't have been right.
What this has to do with a disease that lives solely in bodily fluids, I have
no idea (seeing as, again, almost every medical expert would gladly tell you
you can't get AIDS from sharing dishes with someone who's infected).
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>darn severe. Severe enough I'd rather take my chances down to zero.
Do you worry about ladders? I'd bet you a substantial amount of money that
ladders cause more deaths than accidental transmissions of HIV (not including
dirty blood) every year.
:hint, I already bookmarked the CDC pages:
>And, c'mon, if it was so damn hard to catch, why is it such an
>epidemic?
Because people still don't wear condoms? And continue to abuse intraveinous
drugs?
Besides, I thought you were dropping out of the conversation.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>effectiveness. I know A and B do, anyway.
But how many people have vaccines for these? I haven't bothered checking the
CDC pages for it yet (I'm being lazy; I've got mountains of DVD based mixed
martial arts footage I'm sifting through).
>No. Herpes, maybe, but that's not strictly fatal. AIDS is fairly unique in
>that it's both unpreventable and largely untreatable (in that it usually
>remains communicable once extant).
My thinking with Hepititus was that if not picked up in it early stages, it can
cause liver failure and death (and, I believe, can still be transmitted, even
with some degree of care, though you'd know better than I, so I'll let you tell
me). AIDS isn't untreatable in the sense that it can still be communicated, but
the person who has the disease can live a fairly normal life as long as they
(or their health care provider) has deep pockets.
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
Haha...ouch.
>
>I don't think Rastus is advocating the detention of homosexuals, though.
And of course he does it in the very next reply. How about that for comedy?
>We basically *did* quarantine people with SARS symptoms, though.
With symptoms, yes. But we didn't go into Chinatown and put the place on lock.
There's a difference.
>Might. When is opening weekend? I was toying w/ hitting Thunderhead's
>opening.
>
Traditionally its the last weekend of March. I'll probably be in
Charlottesville at my friends pad, but if the deal pulls through and he gets
this house, its gonna be there. You'd be welcome to join us; we guarantee
alcohol. Lots and lots of it.
-
Alan
Rastus O'Ginga
wrote:
>Besides, I thought you were dropping out of the conversation.
Yep, actually, I forgot, and don't know if I can blacklist folks in a
thread. I probably can, but frankly, it's not worth the hassle.
And, yes, I avoid ladders. The husband of a lady that worked for me
in WV died from falling out of the back of a truck. I would never get
on the roof of my two story house. Simply not worth the risk, and
there is no reward, except for some Christmas lights, or saving a
small amount of $ for a repair.
Mike Robinson
army, I was potentially exposed to Mad Cow Disease (Actually, that might
explain a lot) and as such must quarantine myself from this thread.
"Iain Hendry" <military...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:253Lb.42138$1g41....@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Rastus O'Ginga
<mi...@mikerobinson.net> wrote:
>And adding to that, because I lived in Germany in the mid 80's while in the
>army, I was potentially exposed to Mad Cow Disease (Actually, that might
>explain a lot) and as such must quarantine myself from this thread.
Actually, that probably means you can't give blood in the US either.
I know since I was in England in the summer of '91 for more than 6
months, I can't give blood, or at least couldn't at one time.
Thankfully, when it comes to health care, this country is usually
properly conservative.
DeadAndRestless
LOL
>and don't know if I can blacklist folks in a
>thread.
LOL
>And, yes, I avoid ladders.
LOL
>The husband of a lady that worked for me
>in WV died from falling out of the back of a truck. I would never get
>on the roof of my two story house. Simply not worth the risk, and
>there is no reward, except for some Christmas lights, or saving a
>small amount of $ for a repair.
LOL
RASTUS: AGAINST LADDERS, AGAINST FREEDOM
Haha...no, really...maybe we should get rid of ladders, as a society. Replace
them with cherry picker services that bring you to the heights to need to
attain. I mean, think about it...someone could not only fall off a ladder and
hurt themselves, if they have AIDS and sit one of the steps on the way down
with their throat, they could spray blood *everywhere*! Down with ladders, I
say!
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>months, I can't give blood, or at least couldn't at one time.
>
>Thankfully, when it comes to health care, this country is usually
>properly conservative.
>
How is that "conservative"? What would "liberal" health care mean? Openly
distributing packets of blood marked "AIDS, GIVE THIS TO EVERYONE"?
-easiest. flamewar. ever.-
Alan
Wolf
> >airplanes think AIDS infected people should be able to do anything in
> >anonymity.
>
> Someone who has an allergy to peanuts will have a serious reaction and may
die
> on the flight, causing the plane to be rerouted at extreme cost to the
airline.
> Not only that, but the lack of info on packaging may cause them to be
sued. As
> a result, pretzels are preferable because they cost roughly the same and
don't
> create the same risk for a airline (which, considering the large numbers
of
> people they put through, is fairly substantial).
Shame, too. Honey Roasted Peanuts were about sole remaining thing that was
good and pure about air travel these days.
Wolf
> >effectiveness. I know A and B do, anyway.
>
> But how many people have vaccines for these? I haven't bothered checking
the
> CDC pages for it yet (I'm being lazy; I've got mountains of DVD based
mixed
> martial arts footage I'm sifting through).
Dunno. Many western states require it. A lot of schools are starting to
require it (A and B twofer, or TWINRIX). It's becoming the new MMR.
> My thinking with Hepatitis was that if not picked up in it early stages,
it can
> cause liver failure and death (and, I believe, can still be transmitted,
even
> with some degree of care, though you'd know better than I, so I'll let you
tell
> me).
It can be, yeah. And it can be fatal. It can be caught in the early stages
out symptomology, although that leads into a multi-year treatment which,
I've heard, isn't much fun. Some are easier to transmit than others, but I
don't remember how the communicability goes from one to another.
> AIDS isn't untreatable in the sense that it can still be communicated, but
> the person who has the disease can live a fairly normal life as long as
they
> (or their health care provider) has deep pockets.
All well and good, but it cannot be treated into a non-contagious or cured
state. Heps A and B can be, I believe. Not sure where we are on C at the
moment.
DeadAndRestless
>good and pure about air travel these days.
Hey now...there's still the vaunted exit row seats. =)
-
Alan
Joe Schwartz
> Shame, too. Honey Roasted Peanuts were about sole remaining thing that was
> good and pure about air travel these days.
That reminds me, I *loved* the Ritz Chips that I got on a recent Southwest
flight. All the buttery goodness of a Ritz cracker, in a light crispy
chip. Yummy.
--
Come visit Joyrides -- www.joyrides.com -- a photo gallery celebrating
the joy and beauty of amusement park rides, especially roller coasters!
Wolf
>
> Haha...ouch.
Socialized healthcare indeed! =)
> >I don't think Rastus is advocating the detention of homosexuals, though.
>
> And of course he does it in the very next reply. How about that for
comedy?
I noticed. Give him enough rope...
> >We basically *did* quarantine people with SARS symptoms, though.
>
> With symptoms, yes. But we didn't go into Chinatown and put the place on
lock.
> There's a difference.
Oh, assuredly. I'm not saying it's the same at all.
> >Might. When is opening weekend? I was toying w/ hitting Thunderhead's
> >opening.
> >
>
> Traditionally its the last weekend of March. I'll probably be in
> Charlottesville at my friends pad, but if the deal pulls through and he
gets
> this house, its gonna be there. You'd be welcome to join us; we guarantee
> alcohol. Lots and lots of it.
Camp Reject II, huh?
Might be interesting.
SheppSF
caution, for obvious reasons. >>
It's estimated that up to a million Americans are HIV positive. Just what sort
of "simply keeping track of" are you proposing? Jesus, get real...
<< The folks on here obviously don't know much about health care. >>
Actually, I served as a volunteer phone advisor for the California HIV Hotline
for almost 14 years. If you can get beyond your self-righteous puffing for a
minute and ask an intelligent question, I'd be more than happy to share my
expertise.
SheppSF
for transfusions, so people can live so they can die a painful death
later? >>
The original example we've been discussing came from 1982, way before the
availability of antibody testing. The advent of screening has virtually
eliminated the risk of transmission through blood products. The only exception
is blood donated by people in the very early stages of infection, who may not
yet have mounted sufficient antibodies to register positive. (These are, of
course, the same folks who wouldn't yet be showing up on the Rastus Pariah
Register, anyway.)
So next time you fall on your face, you might want to think about storing your
own blood before your plastic surgery, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over your
HIV risk, if I were you. (And thank goodness I'm not.)
SheppSF
bible. Remember that one? >><BR><BR>
Wasn't that one chapter over from "The Lord must love assholes; He made so many
of them."?
Robert Ulrich
wrote:
>RASTUS: AGAINST LADDERS, AGAINST FREEDOM
>
>Haha...no, really...maybe we should get rid of ladders, as a society. Replace
>them with cherry picker services that bring you to the heights to need to
>attain. I mean, think about it...someone could not only fall off a ladder and
>hurt themselves, if they have AIDS and sit one of the steps on the way down
>with their throat, they could spray blood *everywhere*! Down with ladders, I
>say!
It may be already happening - the last family-owned American ladder
manufacturing company shut it's doors in December due to liability
insurance costs even though they've never been sued in court and lost.
Can't remember the name, but it was in a WSJ story last week.
RU
Sam Marks
>split up the dishes and were quite careful.
Did you also post pictures of the person that gave you mono all over campus????
Sam Marks
>>take what life deals you and put what's best for humanity above what's
>>best for you.
>
>No you don't. You put what's best for humanity above what's best for you
>every
>day, Rastus? Strange philisophical point that you of all people are making.
what's best for society? probably rastus investing in twine and trap doors
OrlandoMike4
>
>Oh, that's right, I remember everyone wearing those at Oscar night
>every year.
>
You have obviously never watched an LPGA tournament on TV.
Walt Breymier
(David H.--REMOVE "STOPSPAM" to reply) wrote:
>And come on, guys, even I know better than to try to get into anything
>resembling a rational discussion on HIV with Rastus.
We'll see. You certainly don't know better than to try to get into a
rational discussion with him about anything else! >:P
Walt Breymier
Shawn Mamros
>And, c'mon, if it was so damn hard to catch, why is it such an
>epidemic?
Because people like having sex. (Straight, gay, or otherwise; HIV doesn't
care which...)
Rastus O'Ginga
> << Nope, simply keeping track of them and dealing with them with extra
> caution, for obvious reasons. >>
>
> It's estimated that up to a million Americans are HIV positive. Just what sort
> of "simply keeping track of" are you proposing? Jesus, get real...
When SHOULD we start having a national ID to keep track of such things
(deadly diseases, terroristic backgrounds, child molesting
background)? Two million HIV positive cases? Five million? Ten
million? When is too late? Ever heard of the African AIDS epidemic?
Shall we just hope that every pint of blood is 100% accurately tested
for AIDS? Shall we just hope that what we do now is good enough, and
in five years we'll have beaten AIDS?
Do you really think that if we just let everyone continue on in
anonymity, AIDS will slowly go away? Are you that stupid? If more is
not done, it will get worse, not better. Diseases tend to spread
exponentially.
And what I don't understand is that most on here that are arguing
against any tracking are gay, and much more likely to catch AIDS
eventually. That just makes no sense. I mean, that shows basically
no intelligence whatsoever.
SARS made world headlines last year for a month. 500 poeple died from
it, and very proactive quaranteening worked.
AIDS is a worldwide epidemic with probably 100,000 people dying from
it last year (I admit, that's a WAG). But, hey, we don't need to try
and control it, right?
> Actually, I served as a volunteer phone advisor for the California HIV Hotline
> for almost 14 years. If you can get beyond your self-righteous puffing for a
> minute and ask an intelligent question, I'd be more than happy to share my
> expertise.
Were any of these folks happy? How many of them would have given
absolutely anything had they have been able to avoid getting the
disease?
No one has yet to make a sensible argument against trying to control
the spread of AIDS by damn near any means necessary.
Rastus O'Ginga
Sam Marks
>it, and very proactive quaranteening worked.
thats cause it's spread thru the air MORON, would you suggest that everyone
with SARS be ID'ed and then just stop BREATHING?????
Jason, face the TRUE facts.
You don't give a flying _____ about AIDS, you simply HATE gays....PERIOD.
And probably most people of COLOR.
It's called RACIST, and you qualify with Flying "colors".
If just WHITE people had AIDS, you would conveniently have NO OPINION.
And everyone arguing on the side of gays is not gay, it's just another of your
dilusional mindgames to get some to shut up.
Basically, what I'm saying is ....
Why don't you take your sorry pitiful HATEFUL life somewhere where it "might"
be appreciated.....
try KKK.COM
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
Actually, there are several other tests for signs of HIV itself, and I'm
pretty sure they're included in the battery of tests that all blood
donations are given.
David Hamburger, davi...@STOPSPAMbellatlantic.net, Boston, MA
PLEASE remove "STOPSPAM" from my address when replying via e-mail.
"I think that gay marriage is something that
should be between a man and a woman,"
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
wrote:
>>> What about Hepititus?
>>
>>Both treatable and vaccinateable.
>>
>
>AIDS is at least treatable, though the drugs are rather expensive. Are there
>vaccines for Hep B & C?
There are vaccines for both Hepatitis A and B. I don't believe there is
any vaccine for C at the present.
David H.--REMOVE STOPSPAM to reply
<ras...@kingwoodXXXXXcable.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:23:50 -0500, "Wolf" <bus...@adelphia.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> A good example otherwise would be the SARS scare of this year. Should the
>>US
>>> and Canada have forced those of Asian descent into quarantine as soon as
>>it
>>> started to hit the shores?
>>
>>No. Although expat Canucks...
>>
>>I don't think Rastus is advocating the detention of homosexuals, though.
>
>Nope, simply keeping track of them and dealing with them with extra
>caution, for obvious reasons.
Oh my God. Did he actually just suggest that homosexuals be tracked?
>Just like suspected terrorists. A society can not be 100% free,
>that's called anarchy. Those with good reason to be watched MUST be
>watched for the greater good.
Oh my God. Did he actually just compare homosexuals to terrorists?
Yes, Rastus just pretty clearly advocated for government tracking of
homosexuals.
Guys, seriously, doesn't this just say it all?
When *I* feel it's utterly pointless to even bother to argue with Rastus
about AIDS, given my 8 or so years as a member of ACT UP and an AIDS
educator -- not to mention my history of flamewars with Rastus -- doesn't
that tell you something? It's a touchy subject to me. And it's one that
I'm certainly willing to fight over.
But fighting with Rastus over this seems utterly pointless. He's an
ignorant man, who chooses to stay ignorant. He chooses to believe
ridiculous things that rational people wouldn't even consider. He likes to
lump people who are different form him together and come up with reasons
for hating them. there's no rationalizing with people like this.
The man doesn't even know the difference between "contagious" -- as in
easily spread through casual contact -- and "infectious" -- as in requiring
INTIMATE contact or transmission of bodily fluids for transmission. HIV is
an infectious disease, but it is NOT a contagious one. If it were, then
tracking people with it would be completely appropriate, as it was/is with
SARS.
When talking about transmission of HIV, is there really any point in having
any sort of discussion with someone who clearly knows so little and likes
to promote irrational hysteria?
Normally, I'd feel the need to point out the basic facts that he's gotten
wrong in situations like this one.
But in this case, he's said so many truly outrageous things (see the
beginning of this very post) that no one his right mind will take him
seriously, so it's pretty pointless.
Anyone with a brain knows that there are very specific ways that people
catch HIV. They all involve the exchange of bodily fluids. They don't
involve walking down the street, or eating in a restaurant, or seeing an
acrobatic performance.
Even in the ridiculous hypothetical case of an acrobat spraying an audience
with his blood (to bring this back onto the topic of this thread, if not
exactly this newsgroup), the odds of any of them contracting HIV infection
are INFINITESSIMAL. What are the odds of that blood actually hitting an
open wound? And if you have an open would, why aren't you keeping it
covered up, anyways?
Anyone with half a brain knows that it is not homosexual sex that spreads
HIV. It's UNPROTECTED INTERCOURSE, either vaginal or anal. Worldwide, the
vast majority of HIVE transmissions occur during unprotected vaginal
intercourse.
Unfortunately, not everyone in this world uses their brains.
(Does this count as fighting with Rastus on this subject, Walt?) ;-)
David
DeadAndRestless
>(deadly diseases, terroristic backgrounds, child molesting
>background)? Two million HIV positive cases? Five million? Ten
>million?
Again, this is all a strawman, because you're presupposing all people with the
disease are fully aware of it. You're not learning your lesson.
>Ever heard of the African AIDS epidemic?
The conditions that are responsible for the epidemic in Africa are not present
in the US.
>Shall we just hope that every pint of blood is 100% accurately tested
>for AIDS?
How would a tag that shows one to be HIV positive prevent dirty blood getting
into the system? Oh, right. Strawman.
>Do you really think that if we just let everyone continue on in
>anonymity, AIDS will slowly go away?
Strawman.
>And what I don't understand is that most on here that are arguing
>against any tracking are gay, and much more likely to catch AIDS
>eventually.
How would you track? Just gays? You may want to look at the CDC numbers for the
count of how many have HIV from drug use and heterosexual sex.
>SARS made world headlines last year for a month. 500 poeple died from
>it, and very proactive quaranteening worked.
Yes. Its a contagious airborne disease. Different rules.
>AIDS is a worldwide epidemic with probably 100,000 people dying from
>it last year (I admit, that's a WAG).
Yea, you're way off.
>But, hey, we don't need to try
>and control it, right?
You can't control its worldwide spread by forcing people who are aware they
have the disease to carry around a card. You're throwing out a strawman built
on a strawman.
>No one has yet to make a sensible argument against trying to control
>the spread of AIDS by damn near any means necessary.
"Any damn means" could include methodically executing all know HIV positive
individuals (which isn't entirely unlike what China was doing to curb SARS).
-
Alan
DeadAndRestless
>manufacturing company shut it's doors in December due to liability
>insurance costs even though they've never been sued in court and lost.
>
Holy shit. That's pathetic. Rastus should be bitching about this, not peanuts
on flights.
-
Alan