about coma cordelia...
Bruh Man 438
they did kind of ruin..things? I mean from the look of it, Charisma assumed
she'd be back for season 5, then was told suddenly nah she won't. At least on
Buffy with Giles they slowly set up for the character to leave, then opened the
door quite easily for him to return whenever necessary... almost like he never
left, and, more importantly, was NEVER forgotten by the show's characters.. and
why would he be? He was a very important part of the show and the group. Same
goes for Cordelia. But the writers can't dwell on Cordelia now since the
freakin actress won't be back!! So they can't have Angel and Wes being
depressed over poor coma Cordy b/c that situation might never get resolved! It
wouldn't make sense, in many ways, to ever mention Cordelia again, and that's
sad. It didn't have to be that way... I have a feeling the show will come back
and it will be like Cordelia never even existed or even MEANT anything to this
group of people.. What a terrible way to go out. Let's see if the name
'Cordelia' is even mentioned in any of the first episodes of the season... I
mean, you'd think after all the crap the gang was put thru last season
regarding Cordelia they'd have some stuff to say.. But like I said, Cordy is
not part of the show any more, so why dwell on her in the episodes right?
Boooo....
Bruh Man 438
>storyline?
>
>If it won't, it can be left to 'offscreen' and it would be bad writing
>to include it.
Like I said, it makes sense to do that to poor Cordelia for the current
episodes, but it does NOT make sense for the realism of the show. Cordelia has
been around for 7 years and now she's in a coma! Wouldn't the characters who
LOVE her have some thoughts and feelings on that? it's just not realistic to
let Cordelia become a little part of the show when, as we've seen the past 7
years, she's come to mean a LOT to these people. How can we beleieve that
Angel, who was about to profess his love to Cordelia, has now lost her possibly
forever AND DOESN'T CARE?? Not realistic. I know the only reason why Cordelia
would ever be a major topic of discussion in an episode is if she was planned
to come out of her coma and guest star, but... I just don't like that kind of
writing. I think it's ok to let the viewers know the gang still cares about
Cordelia, even if the dumbass showrunners dont like her and dont ever want her
to come back. The gang has grown too close over the years to stop caring about
Cordelia for absolutely no reason.
Bruh Man 438
>>episodes, but it does NOT make sense for the realism of the show.
>
>up the washroom on the 10th floor of the W&H building doesn't make the
>show less realistic. Showing that, however, is unlikely to add to the
>story. So there is no point including it.
>
>The fact you don't like that cordelia is not going to be on the show
>has nothing to do with the show's realism.
>
>Personally I have no interest in hearing about Fred's trip to
>gynecologist or Wesley's athlete's foot.
>
>The fact that ME doesn't film these in detail doesn't make a show
>about vampires and demons less realistic.
>
>Time to get over it.
>
OK obviously a Cordelia-hater and hey, that's great for you.. but I THINK the
near death and coma state of a MAJOR character who loves and is loved by all
the other characters in the show is a liiiitle more important than the
characters taking a shit ok dude? You mentioned things that, by all means,
should be left off screen. I am talking about something that, if ignored,
really ruins the show in some aspects. On Buffy, the loss of Giles was felt by
all, it was sad, they uh MENTIONED him and were sad to see him go. That's the
normal human response. Now if on Angel they act like Cordelia never existed and
they never loved her just BECAUSE it doesn't progess the current episode's
plot.. that's just stupid. It's obvious the writers wanna fade all memory of
Cordelia out b/c they have no intention of ever bringing her back and they
don't wanna waste time with a plot thread they will never explore, like you
said. Well why not, they did it with Kate, why not Cordelia too right? I'd like
to see your mother or sister go into a coma then a week later you never mention
or think of her again, hey that's realistic right man??
Tammy Stephanie Davis
:>>Like I said, it makes sense to do that to poor Cordelia for the current
:>>episodes, but it does NOT make sense for the realism of the show.
:>
:>Sure it does. The fact they don't show Gunn taking a dump and stinking
:>up the washroom on the 10th floor of the W&H building doesn't make the
:>show less realistic. Showing that, however, is unlikely to add to the
:>story. So there is no point including it.
:>
:>The fact you don't like that cordelia is not going to be on the show
:>has nothing to do with the show's realism.
:>
:>Personally I have no interest in hearing about Fred's trip to
:>gynecologist or Wesley's athlete's foot.
:>
:>The fact that ME doesn't film these in detail doesn't make a show
:>about vampires and demons less realistic.
:>
:>Time to get over it.
:>
: OK obviously a Cordelia-hater <rest deleted>
I just want to say that I find it very interesting - bordering on
amazing - that st's explaination as to why not mentioning Cordelia's coma
is realistic for the show is an indication that st is a "Cordelia-hater".
If Usenet teaches us anything, its that the only exercise some people get
is jumping to conclusions.
BTR1701
I agree. It will seem rather odd, like the elephant in the living room
everyone is inexplicably ignoring.
The folks over on the Buffy newsgroup were making this same "advancing
the storyline" argument about Faith and why neither Buffy nor anyone
else even mentioned her while figthting The First who was trying to end
the Slayer line. Given that Faith is integral to the Slayer line, it was
odd, bordering on ridiculous, that she was never discussed until the
moment she just showed up with Willow.
Real people don't behave that way, regardless of whether it "advances
the storyline"-- whatever that actually means.
BTR1701
stri...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 23 Aug 2003 22:02:50 GMT, bruhm...@aol.com (Bruh Man 438) wrote:
>
> >>Simple, ask yourself: How will mentioning Cordelia advance the current
> >>storyline?
> >>
> >>If it won't, it can be left to 'offscreen' and it would be bad writing
> >>to include it.
> >
> >Like I said, it makes sense to do that to poor Cordelia for the current
> >episodes, but it does NOT make sense for the realism of the show.
>
> Sure it does. The fact they don't show Gunn taking a dump and stinking
> up the washroom on the 10th floor of the W&H building doesn't make the
> show less realistic. Showing that, however, is unlikely to add to the
> story. So there is no point including it.
>
> The fact you don't like that cordelia is not going to be on the show
> has nothing to do with the show's realism.
>
> Personally I have no interest in hearing about Fred's trip to
> gynecologist or Wesley's athlete's foot.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Unless you actually do think losing
a loved one has as much effect on your life as a case of athlete's foot
or a good bowel movement, in which case I pity you.
Snds15
>From: bruhm...@aol.com (Bruh Man 438)
>Date: 8/23/2003 2:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030823144110...@mb-m06.aol.com>
Maybe they'll simply make Cordelia part of the general mind-wipe that affected
everyone except Angel?
Thus, no reason for anyone to mention her; since they won't know she ever
existed.
Sandra
Thirsty Viking
"BTR1701" <BTR...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BTR1702-EA4FDC...@news-server.austin.rr.com...
But they have done all that, and now she is institutionalized, and while
some conversations take place there is no development there, and as
long as WR&H were editing the minds of AI they may well have reduced
CC importance to them.
Angel Lost CC in Apoc Nowish the Second Time. He had already lost
her to heaven. Just like he lost Buffy there, till she wasn't lost anymore.
Then there is the whole thing with her not really being Cordy anyway.
Beside there are cookie dough dreams that will be far more on his mind,
and an evil multi-tasking-state-of-the-art-Turn-key Law firm to clean up
:-)
Thirsty Viking
"Snds15" <snd...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20030823212401...@mb-m02.news.cs.com...
> >
>
> Maybe they'll simply make Cordelia part of the general mind-wipe that
affected
> everyone except Angel?
>
> Thus, no reason for anyone to mention her; since they won't know she ever
> existed.
>
quite clear. They have also had 17 days of conversations we will never
see. not to mention all the conversations that happen between episodes.
People should fill in the needless trivia, Lornes athletes foot, and fred
reading to coma cordy as they see fit. I mean what can they say...
Fred: Gee i miss cordy...
Wes: So do I, she looks .... peaceful...
Gunn: yeah... do you think that was ever really her last season?
Angel: I hope not...
I mean really, there is nowhere to go with coma cordy.
Angel Really loves Buffy anyway
Wes loves Fred but will again say too little too late(betcha)
Gunn is hunting High Class Life ala Bond
Fred will become wrapped up in Spike's story involving
herself with a Vamp since her inner city Vamp killer
is looking for greener .... Though she will not admit this
Spike never gave a Rats but about Cordy will be interesting to
see if he is receptive to Freds intrest. Also the temptations
of being a ghost... hmmm Spike possessing Wessley
for a bit of shagging with Fred is exactly what those
two need to break the ice.... Though Wesley would flub
it up and tell her it wasn't him doing all the things he
really wants to do. Nancy tribe strikes out again
BTR1701
<johnd...@HotSPAMmail.com> wrote:
There's no evidence they did any such thing. Cordelia was the first
thing on Fred's mind at the end of "Home".
BTR1701
snd...@cs.com (Snds15) wrote:
> Maybe they'll simply make Cordelia part of the general mind-wipe that
> affected everyone except Angel?
>
> Thus, no reason for anyone to mention her; since they won't know she
> ever existed.
Won't work. They already talked about her after the mind wipe happened
at the end of "Home":
Lilah appears with the Sunnydale folder and amulet in hand. She and
Wesley lock eyes. She canÄ…t quite take it and looks away.
LILAH
IÄ…m impressed by the lot of you. Team Angel, all growed up.
ANGEL
(to Lilah)
Is it taken care of?
LILAH
(nods)
CordeliaÄ…s safe and sound. Probably getting a manicure and a blow-dry as
we speak.
FRED
(shocked)
You found Cordy? And sheąs‹
LILAH
Still in a coma. But, hey, doesnÄ…t mean she canÄ…t look her best. SheÄ…ll
receive the finest care‹ medical and metaphysical. If there is a way to
get her back, weÄ…ll find it.
Bruh Man 438
>>to see your mother or sister go into a coma
>
hey nice editing man, reaaal cute.. the full line i originally said was "I'd
like to see your mother or sister go into a come and be able to forget about it
and never mention it again 2 weeks later." Ya know, to emphasize how the gang
on Angel should at least remineisce in some way to show they remember and still
remember poor coma Cordy. But since you like to edit my phrase to make me look
like a jack ass.. well then, i really DO hope your mother or sister goes into a
coma then. THen you can contact me in 2 weeks from then and make believe it
never happened mmkay? ;-)
Bruh Man 438
Well I assume if he LIKED Cordelia he would NOT compare mentioning poor coma
Cordy to a case of athlete's foot, ya understand? Main character, 7 years under
belt, star of the show, kind of important... athlete's foot, going to the
bathroom.. kind of NOT important.. Where is the confusion? I think he made it
pretty clear he does not like Cordelia, just as I'm making it pretty damn clear
I.. uh... DO like her. See? Pretty simple. Logic. There we go.. Interesting
bordering on amazing? Not one bit.
Thirsty Viking
> > > > gynecologist or Wesley's athlete's foot.
> > >
> > > You're comparing apples and oranges. Unless you actually do think
> > > losing a loved one has as much effect on your life as a case of
athlete's foot
> > > or a good bowel movement, in which case I pity you.
> >
> > But they have done all that, and now she is institutionalized, and while
> > some conversations take place there is no development there, and as
> > long as WR&H were editing the minds of AI they may well have reduced
> > CC importance to them.
>
> There's no evidence they did any such thing. Cordelia was the first
> thing on Fred's mind at the end of "Home".
I said reduced importance, not removed all refrence. The fact is that
untill they (JW and CC) decide to bring her charachter back she is
in as complete a state as if she we dead and burried. They all know
what has happened to her and they are currently helpless to do more
for her.
Assuming 26 episode for 1 year of timeline there are over 450
minutes that take place off screen for every minute that is portrayed.
Also She was not first thing on freds mind... LILAH brought her up
and Fred thought she might be fully recovered.
William George Ferguson
to a very bad place:
Forbidden love is in your eyes all the way
If I listen to your lies would you say
I'm a child of vampire friction
I'm a boy who doesn't know
How to live this contradiction
You come and go, you come and go
Coma, coma, coma, coma, coma Cordelia
You come and go, you come and goes
living would be easy if the colors were all my way
No shades of grey
No shades of grey
Didn't hear your wicked words every day
And you used to be so sweet I heard you say
That my love was an addiction
When we cling our love is strong
When you go you're gone forever
You string along
You string along
(heck, that's so perfect I didn't even modify it)
There's no joy, just survival
He's my father, and my rival
There's no joy, just survival
He's my father, and my rival
I'm a child of vampire friction
I'm a boy who doesn't know
How to live this contradiction
You come and go, you come and go
Coma, coma, coma, coma, coma Cordelia
You come and go, you come and goes
living would be easy if the colors were all my way
No shades of grey
No shades of grey
--
You've reached the Tittles. We can't come to the phone right now
If you want to leave a message for Christine, Press 1
For Bentley, Press 2
Or to speak to, or worship, Master Tarfall, Underlord of Pain, Press 3
Thirsty Viking
offscreen as opposed to what happens in cannon. Just
because they don't show it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
For instance, all the hours of book keeping in AI is merely
mentioned one time.
There are 17 days of off time between 4x22 and 5x01 Fill
them in with all the Cordy hovering you think they need.
AI have lives to lead, and Cordy is now very much periferal
to them. Untill JW brings her out of coma it is senseless
to waste more screen time on her, and will be detrimental
for the new fans they hope to bring in with spike.
Will the AI members occasionally drop by and read to
coma-cordy in thier down time... sure they will.
Will they occasionally talk about her in the office sure
they will. Will they get on with thier lives, obviously.
The point is that Given how precious the screen time is,
Cordy time is wasted time, untill they bring her back.
Good heavens they wasted enough time and money on
her last season, with her lying in bed in a coma to justify
that she was important to the AI team
BTR1701
<johnd...@HotSPAMmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Personally I have no interest in hearing about Fred's trip to
> > > > > gynecologist or Wesley's athlete's foot.
> > > >
> > > > You're comparing apples and oranges. Unless you actually do think
> > > > losing a loved one has as much effect on your life as a case of athlete's foot
> > > > or a good bowel movement, in which case I pity you.
> > >
> > > But they have done all that, and now she is institutionalized, and
> > > while some conversations take place there is no development there, and as
> > > long as WR&H were editing the minds of AI they may well have reduced
> > > CC importance to them.
> >
> > There's no evidence they did any such thing. Cordelia was the first
> > thing on Fred's mind at the end of "Home".
>
> I said reduced importance, not removed all refrence.
Again, the FIRST thing on Fred's mind...
Tammy Stephanie Davis
Bruh Man 438
Oh my God lighten up, gimme a break, like I MEANT that.. he called me a "sick
fucker" for no reason and I just got back at him, get real.
Bruh Man 438
>Every year there is 450x the amount of time that takes place
>offscreen as opposed to what happens in cannon. Just
>because they don't show it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
>For instance, all the hours of book keeping in AI is merely
>mentioned one time.
Yea but the point is, book-keeping = not important. Main character who is loved
by all other main characters = pretty darn important. Again, if one of my loved
ones was in a coma.. oh i dunno, topic MIGHT come up...
>The point is that Given how precious the screen time is,
>Cordy time is wasted time, untill they bring her back.
She's wasted time if they focus on her TOO much, but we all know that won't
happen until they plan to bring CC back. I just want to know, on screen, that
the gang is, like, SAD about what happened to poor Cordelia. Look at all the
shit she went thru, these are her loved ones, they gotta show they care about
her, that's all I want.
Thirsty Viking
"Bruh Man 438" <bruhm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030825034533...@mb-m03.aol.com...
> >
> >Every year there is 450x the amount of time that takes place
> >offscreen as opposed to what happens in cannon. Just
> >because they don't show it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
> >For instance, all the hours of book keeping in AI is merely
> >mentioned one time.
>
> Yea but the point is, book-keeping = not important. Main character who is
loved
> by all other main characters = pretty darn important. Again, if one of my
loved
> ones was in a coma.. oh i dunno, topic MIGHT come up...
Again already it has come up repeatedly in season 4.
Screen time is less than 1/4 of 1 % of thier lives. untill they
bring her back, WASTE of Valuable Air time.
\>
> >The point is that Given how precious the screen time is,
> >Cordy time is wasted time, untill they bring her back.
>
> She's wasted time if they focus on her TOO much, but we all know that
won't
> happen until they plan to bring CC back. I just want to know, on screen,
that
> the gang is, like, SAD about what happened to poor Cordelia. Look at all
the
> shit she went thru, these are her loved ones, they gotta show they care
about
> her, that's all I want.
And all the stuff with her in a coma in season 4 wasn't enough
for you there.. dang. Here I thought that had already been
CLEARLY shown, you sure are demanding. Lets not forget
stealing the Axis of Pithia just to catch a glimpse of her.
Conversations of guilt for leaving Cordy behind in the hotel
while they were FLEEING FOR THIER LIVES, and TRYING
TO SAVE THE WORLD. Given that they found time for
dialogue on cordy then, it should be easy to accept that she
still is.
WES - EVERYONE from the CoW that Wes knew except for
Giles (and 1 other) is DEAD, Lilah is DEAD. Cordelia
played a respected and valuable role on the team, but I'd hardly
classify her as a loved one of Wessley. Cordy turned her back
on Wessley just like the rest of AI. Sure he probably spent a
solid week researching mystical texts looking for a cure for
Cordy durring the 17 days we don't see. Now he will merely
keep his eyes open for it while researching other more pressing
stuff.
Gunn - Kinda friendly, never too much involved with Cordy, we
can expect about as much Cordy talk from him as we hear about
his Sister or the other Casualties his old Crew takes. As a warrior
he has learned to accept loss and focus on to the next fight so he
losses fewer friends.
Fred - Sweet Fred, She will probably visit Cordy more often
than anyone else. She is the genius scientist type though so her
visits will be in between other obsessions that come along. Like
finding a way to re-body spike
Angel - yes they were getting involved in season 3, but they
never quite made it. Conflicted about weather Cordy was with
Conner, or if Cordy ever came back at all. All in All not the
most talkative about his problems to begin with.... Cordy was
always the Foil that challenged him to talk about things. He has
arranged for her medical care as part of his WR&H deal. He
Probably has a Video feed to her room so he can check on her
at random instant intervals and as easily change the channel.
I Lost a friend to a coma, I have to tell you he rarely comes
up. Oh he came up in the first week, then there were monthly
updates for a short time. These quickly became very rare.
In the last 15 years he has regained consiousness a few times
briefly and asked about seeing his sister (Died in a car wreck
before his coma -- memory loss) Last time was 6 years ago,
haven't seen parents in the grocery store these last 2 years or
heard from them so I assume no change. Last time he was
conscious they called and I visited him.
This was a friend of mine all through Highschool. We were
on the track and wrestling teams together. we hung out at
church together, even double dated on occasion. He was one
year behind me, All-State Decathalete (still holds the Record).
He came to the same college I went to my sophomore year,
and we had talked about being roommates after his freshman
year..... Spring of his freshman year he got hit in the back of
the head by a wild Hammer throw at a Track meet. For those
that don't know... the hammer is essentially a Cannonball on a
chain with a handle that is thrown by spinning around and
letting go of the handle.
Thirsty Viking
As answered before, brought up by Lilah in a way that suggested she was
recovered from coma, not brought up by fred, so first thing analagy is
bogus.
Kas
> Well I assume if he LIKED Cordelia he would NOT compare mentioning poor
coma
> Cordy to a case of athlete's foot, ya understand? Main character, 7 years
under
> belt, star of the show, kind of important... athlete's foot, going to the
> bathroom.. kind of NOT important.. Where is the confusion? I think he made
it
> pretty clear he does not like Cordelia, just as I'm making it pretty damn
clear
> I.. uh... DO like her. See? Pretty simple. Logic. There we go..
Interesting
> bordering on amazing? Not one bit.
Take a deep breath, go back and re-read all of st's posts again... There is
one key point you are missing in all of this..
He is saying that it is not realistic to dwel on this in the acutal show to
"assume" that in the hours out of the show where we don't see them (ever
notice how one minute its morning the next its night time?) are when they
talk about her. When they are out hunting demons, researching their next
case, even working at the W & H offices (assuming they have homes to go to
at the end of the day... like the hotel) its probably not the most
approrpiate time to be speaking of their lost friend, thats best saved for
sitting around a nice hot cup of coca at the end of the day... the hours we
don't see... and if we do happen to see such an exchange i am sure the
writters wouldn't be so stupid as to not slip in a small mention of her IF
the current episode has room for it and the setting is appropriate.
I can understand your point of view as well that as a fan it would be sad
for her not to be mentioned at all BUT if she is, it has to be appropriate,
sitting reading over the latest prophecy's or chasing after the latest vamp
isn't the appropriate times to be dropping an "I miss Cordy", however coming
across a situation where she used to be quiet helpful in, mentioning her
would fit and I'm sure they probably will - Just like Fred used to drop in
lines about how wesley used to be oh so good at doing whatever it was they
were working on at the time.... It has to fit otherwise theres no point to
it.
Your assuming a lot and getting annoyed over episodes you haven't even seen
yet. There is no point stressing over what hasn't happened, just wait and
see :).
silasl
even though she was a huge part of their lives for so long. Especially
Xander. But I dont' think her name was ever said between season 4 and 7 on
Buffy.
"Bruh Man 438" <bruhm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030823144110...@mb-m06.aol.com...
silasl
Angel. The were quick references, but they did mention her quite a bit.
"BTR1701" <BTR...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BTR1702-87C846...@news-server.austin.rr.com...
Bruh Man 438
>That always bugged me about BTVS. Cordelia was rarely, if ever, referenced
>even though she was a huge part of their lives for so long. Especially
>Xander. But I dont' think her name was ever said between season 4 and 7 on
>Buffy.
Just a few times in the beginning of season 4, but NEVER by Xander, if I
recall, which is dumb. Buffy describes her behavior as "Cordeliaesque" at one
point and in the episode "Pangs" where Angel guest stars, Willow asks if its
true Cordelia is working for him. Nothing major, I don't think it would have
been too hard to have mentioned her leaving Sunnydale, but oh well, shes not
the main character, why treat her with any importance.
Bruh Man 438
>Take a deep breath, go back and re-read all of st's posts again... There is
>one key point you are missing in all of this..
>He is saying that it is not realistic to dwel on this in the acutal show to
>"assume" that in the hours out of the show where we don't see them (ever
>notice how one minute its morning the next its night time?) are when they
>talk about her. When they are out hunting demons, researching their next
>case, even working at the W & H offices (assuming they have homes to go to
>at the end of the day... like the hotel) its probably not the most
>approrpiate time to be speaking of their lost friend, thats best saved for
>sitting around a nice hot cup of coca at the end of the day... the hours we
>don't see... and if we do happen to see such an exchange i am sure the
>writters wouldn't be so stupid as to not slip in a small mention of her IF
>the current episode has room for it and the setting is appropriate.
Oh yea I'm not saying that every episode, from now on, should have a Cordelia
reference just to keep her memory alive.. That would be ridiculous. But early
in the season, especially since its just a few weeks after the events of last
season, I'd like a mention or 2 of their poor lost friend. That's something
that would NOT be better left off-screen. If it is, how would the veiwers know
how they feel? I WANT to know the gang remembers and still cares and is at
least a little sad about what happened, that's all. They learned she was in a
coma and it wasn't looking too promising in like the final minute of the
finale, not much time to respond or react. I just wanna see a little genuine
concern for poor Cordy, then they can go on with their lives and the new
season, knowing at least Cordy is safe. If all that is done off screen then,
duh, we have no way of knowing if it even happend. I don't wanna assume they
were sad about coma Cordy, I wanna see them talk about it a little, then we can
move on...
Bruh Man 438
>for you there.. dang. Here I thought that had already been
>CLEARLY shown, you sure are demanding. Lets not forget
>stealing the Axis of Pithia just to catch a glimpse of her.
>Conversations of guilt for leaving Cordy behind in the hotel
>while they were FLEEING FOR THIER LIVES, and TRYING
>TO SAVE THE WORLD. Given that they found time for
>dialogue on cordy then, it should be easy to accept that she
>still is.
Yea but that was when she was still a star of the show. ;-) Now that she's
been booted, why ever mention her again right? Makes sense for the writers and
people who run the show, but not for the viewers who like to think of Angel as
a real world. I mean this would kinda be the 2nd time they did this, 1st being
Kate Lockley. Again, it was b/c she was leaving for another show and would
never be back, so why give her the respect to mention her or her absence, even
after we;ve seen Angel go to her multiple times for police help. There was even
kind of a romantic connection between them, or at least Angel liked her as more
than just a police officer helping him.. But Angel just stopped going to see
her for no reason, oh ok, that's realistic. And yea they sure did care about
Cordy a lot this past season, so why would they all of a sudden stop now? If
anything it should just hit them that their close friend might really never
come back to them, and they should be showing more emotion regarding her
current state.
Thirsty Viking
> Yea but that was when she was still a star of the show. ;-) Now that
she's
> been booted, why ever mention her again right? Makes sense for the writers
and
> people who run the show, but not for the viewers who like to think of
Angel as
> a real world. I mean this would kinda be the 2nd time they did this, 1st
being
> Kate Lockley. Again, it was b/c she was leaving for another show and would
> never be back, so why give her the respect to mention her or her absence,
even
> after we;ve seen Angel go to her multiple times for police help. There was
even
> kind of a romantic connection between them, or at least Angel liked her as
more
> than just a police officer helping him.. But Angel just stopped going to
see
> her for no reason, oh ok, that's realistic.
Kate lost her job with the police department, and made it plain she
didn't want to have any more to do with angel. We don't even know
if she is in same continent anymore since she lost her father, her job,
and the respect of most of her friends, i bet she relocated somewhere.
Probably small town cop in oregon. Real life people lose friends from
thier life all the time. People move away and few if any people stay
in touch.
> And yea they sure did care about Cordy a lot this past season,
> so why would they all of a sudden stop now? If anything it
> should just hit them that their close friend might really never
> come back to them, and they should be showing more emotion
> regarding her current state.
Fine, being in this same situation myself in the past, and relating the
progression means nothing to you. Stick with your idealistic theories.
I already explained Real life example, and in charachter analysis why
coma cordelia will play little role in thier lives, and how there are 450x
the amount of time off camera as opposed to on.
Your problem is you want to force her return, thats fine... but your
disquise is very weak. There is no problem with absolutely no mention
of her onscreen from here forward, if that is the route they go. They
have already done the hopless hovering around the coma victim stuff.
In real life almost every one but Direct family members disappear from
that scene relatively quickly. Those that reappear do so briefly. Go visit
a real coma ward one saturday and count the visitors per patient, get info
on relationship and length of coma... I believe you'll see I'm right.
You continue to disreguard the nature of cordelia being lost to
them for almost the entire season. Higher plane ... Amnesia ...
Being an evil being (or possessed by one we aren't really sure if
it was ever Cordelia in her body)
Thirsty Viking
It was quite apparent that cordelia was in a coma for like the last 5
episodes
in "Inside Out" episode 4x17 they start talking about it possibly never
being
Cordelia. Angel leaves possibly to kill cordelia in this episode.
If you believe Chip. He says that Jasmine will not exit cordy she till
has a new place
Fred: "What happens to cordy then"
Chip: "Drain her life force during labor"
"those contractions are a real &itch"
Angel: "It'll kill her?"
Chip: "Or she'll end up a head of Cabage"
And starting at the end of this episode and for the next 5 she was in a
coma.
It isn't like she was instantly struck down with 1 minute to go in episode
22.
> I just wanna see a little genuine
> concern for poor Cordy, then they can go on with their lives and the new
> season, knowing at least Cordy is safe. If all that is done off screen
then,
> duh, we have no way of knowing if it even happend. I don't wanna assume
they
> were sad about coma Cordy, I wanna see them talk about it a little, then
we can
> move on...
They had 5 episodes of genuine concern for cordy. Get over it
already, We know they care, we know they have her in an
institution. Until there is a change in status there is no NEED of
AIR time in SEASON 5. Hey we have no way of knowing if
Gunn actually ever goes to the bathroom either, get over it.
People who aren't satisfied with it now will mostly never be
happy till CC is back in the opening credits as a full time Main
Charachter.
And that just isn't in the cards short term.
Thirsty Viking
Seems to me Xander was pretty over Cordy in the last parts
of season 3. We also had the big break up scene... lets face it
Xander was not much into cordy at the end. She had represented
something unobtainable, when he obtained it it was less appealing
to him. That happens in some relationships. Also this came on
the graduation from high school. Most people who leave town
after highschool are more or less forgotten til reunions come along.
Even when remembered, it is generally when friends meet after
long seperations and reminice about the old gang. not exactly a
big topic when you hang out daily with the same people.
You can wish for it to be otherwise, but it was realistic.
Cordy didn't exactly mope/rant about xander when she was in
Season 1 either.
Thirsty Viking
"silasl" <sil...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:biftpo$154g$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu...
> Actually Faith was brought up a number of times, before she appeared even
on
> Angel. The were quick references, but they did mention her quite a bit.
>
I believe this would be called "Setting the stage".
I expect a few mentions about Cordy before she returns
as well... if she does.
Thirsty Viking
> didn't want to have any more to do with angel. We don't even know
> if she is in same continent anymore since she lost her father, her job,
> and the respect of most of her friends, i bet she relocated somewhere.
> Probably small town cop in oregon. Real life people lose friends from
> thier life all the time. People move away and few if any people stay
> in touch.
I overstated that, A very small % stay in touch.
BTR1701
<sil...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Actually Faith was brought up a number of times, before she appeared even
> on
> Angel. The were quick references, but they did mention her quite a bit.
I can think of once in "Bring on the Night". What were the others?
BUFFY
The First. That零 what it wants.
GILES
Yes, to erase all the Slayers in training and their Watchers along with
their methods.
BUFFY
And then Faith, and then me. And with all the potentials gone and no way
of making another, it零 the end. No more Slayer. Ever.
Bruh Man 438
>didn't want to have any more to do with angel. We don't even know
>if she is in same continent anymore since she lost her father, her job,
>and the respect of most of her friends, i bet she relocated somewhere.
>Probably small town cop in oregon. Real life people lose friends from
>thier life all the time. People move away and few if any people stay
>in touch.
Again you are forced to ASSUME and GUESS what happened in the
"all-questions-answered" off screen time... Why should the viewers have to do
that? If a recurring character all of a sudden disappears from the show, there
should be an explanation for it. What if Giles never appeared in an episode
again without ever saying he was leaving for England in an episode ON SCREEN?
Wouldn't make much sense, they set up for the departure of Giles quite nicely,
I dunno why lesser-important characters like Kate should get shafted. I'm not
blaming the show runners for neglecting that, it's probably b/c the actress was
too busy with her more-important Law and Order show to do anymore work for
Angel, but it's still a shame we weren't given an actual factual reason for why
"Kate" left Angel's life for good. Even if the actress couldn't come back to
wrap things up, have someone ask Angel what happened to her and there ya go,
done. But why do that, right? Why give any respect or acknowledement to a
character who will never be around again or have any importance on the current
episode's storyline? Nah that wouldn't be realistic or make any sense
(sarcasm).
>
>You continue to disreguard the nature of cordelia being lost to
>them for almost the entire season. Higher plane ... Amnesia ...
>Being an evil being (or possessed by one we aren't really sure if
>it was ever Cordelia in her body)
No I'm not. She disappeared at the end of season 3 and at the start of season 4
we learn they've been searching for her all summer, even Wesley, who might have
searched harder than anyone else. It was nice to know they cared about her so
much, but how dare they take all that screen time to show it!!! Blasphemy.
(Sarcasm). Yea well they eventually found her and got her back... but not
really. First the amnesia, then the possession, then the coma. So NOW they
finally know she's been gone from them for a looong time, and NOW they've dealt
with everything and all the problems she's caused, so it'd be the perfect time
to reflect on what happened and just see how f'd up everything that happened to
poor Cordy is... I mean you can't compare this coma to real life one's in the
respect that.. well.. in real life u dont disappear to higher planes, return
with an evil being possessing ur body, forcing u to do disgusting acts, and
using u as a vessel for evil, leaving you a shell of a human being.. yea..
that's kind of traumatic. Thoughts, comments, feelings, emotions from the Angel
gang? I wouldn't mind seeing some ON SCREEN just to let us know they'll never
forget her. If the new season starts with them acting like she was never their
friend and never meant anything to them, that's just wrong, I'm sorry. If you
disagree, maybe you just don't like Cordelia yourself and won't miss her on the
show. Good for you. Or maybe u have some other reason why Cordelia should be
totally phased out of the show like she never existed, whatever. But I'm pretty
sure we're meant to believe the gang on the show kinda likes her, so she should
never be completely gone from their lives, and I'd like to know that for a FACT
and not have to ASSUME it is shown in off-screen time thank you very much....
Bruh Man 438
>episodes
>in "Inside Out" episode 4x17 they start talking about it possibly never
>being
>Cordelia. Angel leaves possibly to kill cordelia in this episode.
>
>If you believe Chip. He says that Jasmine will not exit cordy she till
>has a new place
>
>Fred: "What happens to cordy then"
>Chip: "Drain her life force during labor"
> "those contractions are a real &itch"
>Angel: "It'll kill her?"
>Chip: "Or she'll end up a head of Cabage"
>
>And starting at the end of this episode and for the next 5 she was in a
>coma.
>It isn't like she was instantly struck down with 1 minute to go in episode
>22.
Yes she was in a coma for quite a few episodes... And what were they DOING
during these episodes exactly? Were they, i dunno, kinda busy? Or did they have
time to sit down and reflect poor Cordy's situation? Yea... they didn't have a
moment's rest. The last 5 episodes were like continued from one til the next,
and in 2 of them the gang wasnt even in the right state of mind, being under
Jasmine's spell and all. They had a lot of shit to deal with, one being, oh I
dunno, the whole city of L.A. out to kill them! Now that's an a-OK excuse to
NOT be dwelling on Cordy and her coma, b/c they had a lot of shit to deal with,
as I said in another post. But after it was all over, when they found her at
the end of S4 finale.... they were done. Shit dealt with.. Can we finally see
some remorse and reaction to the possibility of never seeing the REAL Cordy
again!? Is that so hard.
>They had 5 episodes of genuine concern for cordy. Get over it
>already, We know they care, we know they have her in an
>institution. Until there is a change in status there is no NEED of
>AIR time in SEASON 5. Hey we have no way of knowing if
>Gunn actually ever goes to the bathroom either, get over it.
>People who aren't satisfied with it now will mostly never be
>happy till CC is back in the opening credits as a full time Main
>Charachter.
>
>And that just isn't in the cards short term.
First, everyones gotta stop relating Cordelia to going to the bathroom. Going
to the BR is a universal no-show on TV programs, and for good reason. The
sudden disappearance of a major character, however, should leave some sort of
impact on the show and its characters, and be dealt with ON SCREEN. You are
really adamant about no mention of Cordelia ever again.. I gotta ask, what's
with that? Really, do u not like Cordelia, or Charisma altogether? Why would
you be sooo against a little reminiscing on Cordelia on screen in the early
episodes of season 5? It would NOT ruin the plot at all, wouldnt even AFFECT it
one bit, if anything, it would just make the show that much better. I hate when
shows focus on things going on in the current episode and THATS IT. It's ok to
mention past episodes, events, and people, it makes it seem like a real world,
and I like that in my drama TV. Some shows seem like a series premiere every
episode, but Angel and Buffy have always carried on quite nicely, like they're
all real people with a real past. Mentioning Cordy would just strengthen that..
what's so bad about that!!?!?!
Arnold Kim
> That always bugged me about BTVS. Cordelia was rarely, if ever, referenced
> even though she was a huge part of their lives for so long. Especially
> Xander. But I dont' think her name was ever said between season 4 and 7 on
> Buffy.
Some people don't talk much about a friend who's moved away. I know I
don't. (I may think about it from time to time, but I usually don't express
it verbally.)
Arnold Kim
Snds15
>friend and never meant anything to them, that's just wrong, I'm sorry. If you
>disagree, maybe you just don't like Cordelia yourself and won't miss her on
>the
>show. Good for you. Or maybe u have some other reason why Cordelia should be
>totally phased out of the show like she never existed, whatever. But I'm
>pretty
>sure we're meant to believe the gang on the show kinda likes her, so she
>should
>never be completely gone from their lives, and I'd like to know that for a
>FACT
>and not have to ASSUME it is shown in off-screen time thank you very much....
>
>
>
>
>
>
But remember, this season they are angling for new viewers- not just Spike
fans, but others drawn by what is being promoted as an entirely new show.
So it's understandable if they don't want to refer much to past characters and
confuse these viewers; they have enough to deal with as things are.
Sandra
Kas
the name buffy NEVER coming up as it does in certain situations, or the name
Darla never being spoken of again, which it is under the right
circumstances..... Of course they *WILL* mention her they just aren't going
to have episode upon episode of them all sitting around her bedside waiting
for her to wake up. Every character and re-occuring character is NEVER
forgotten to the point where they are never spoken of again they just don't
talk about it every day and at every case - they get on with their lives.
In all honesty Cordie is dead, at least thats how I veiw it, there is no
evidence to even suggest that what came back was ever cordie, her soul is
still off floating around somewhere in that peaceful place where angel found
her through the axis her body was just "borrowed" by the PTB, or Jasmine to
perform whatever it was they/she was trying to do to earth, the memory spell
that was done just gave Jasmine or whatever was controling her body the
memories he/she needed to pretend to "be" cordy even though it never was
her - Thats just my veiw on it, i personally don't think cordy was ever
cordy last season. Whats left now is just her body, no longer needed for the
creation of Jasmine, she's already been and gone. She will be mentioned in
passing from time to time, like any deceased former character on a show like
this would be, but not all the time or even every episode.
Its sad that she has left the show for whatever reasons she has left, but
thats it. Nothings going to change it, no amount of mentioning her in
episodes is going to change it either. Time to move on, concentrate on the
new storylines and the characters who are still around.
Tammy Stephanie Davis
:> Yea but that was when she was still a star of the show. ;-) Now that
: she's
:> been booted, why ever mention her again right? Makes sense for the writers
: and
:> people who run the show, but not for the viewers who like to think of
: Angel as
:> a real world. I mean this would kinda be the 2nd time they did this, 1st
: being
:> Kate Lockley. Again, it was b/c she was leaving for another show and would
:> never be back, so why give her the respect to mention her or her absence,
: even
:> after we;ve seen Angel go to her multiple times for police help. There was
: even
:> kind of a romantic connection between them, or at least Angel liked her as
: more
:> than just a police officer helping him.. But Angel just stopped going to
: see
:> her for no reason, oh ok, that's realistic.
: Kate lost her job with the police department, and made it plain she
: didn't want to have any more to do with angel.
<Rest respectfully deleted>
I didn't get that impression at all. In Kate's last scene with Angel
in "Epiphany", Kate was very friendly and grateful to Angel for saving
her life - she didn't give off any "I don't want to have any more to
do with you" vibes towards Angel at all.
Tirya
> Nothing at all about any post on the thread, the subject just took me
> to a very bad place:
[excellent parody snipped]
> There's no joy, just survival
> He's my father, and my rival
> There's no joy, just survival
> He's my father, and my rival
>
> I'm a child of vampire friction
> I'm a boy who doesn't know
> How to live this contradiction
> You come and go, you come and go
>
> Coma, coma, coma, coma, coma Cordelia
> You come and go, you come and goes
> living would be easy if the colors were all my way
> No shades of grey
> No shades of grey
Hooray for Google, else I would have missed this gem!!!! Love it!!
::humming::
Tirya