I respectfully disagree:
It matters not a jot nor title where fervent got the words.
that he is also guilty of theft, or any other sin, does not change the
fact that he spoke those words in the first person singular, using *I*
as if he were God.
fervent spoke the words as if he were the Spirit of God.
fervent *is* a false prophet.
fervent is convicted when he determined to act,
he is convicted when the words leave his lips, or fingers,
the very words convict him.
It is not for me, nor any other man, to judge him.
It is, however, up to *every man* to discern who and what he is
*by his conduct*.
It is not for me, nor any other man, to forgive him.
fervent's sin is against the Holy Spirit, against God,
and against the Christ he claimed to serve.
If fervent hopes for forgiveness,
he must seek it from God,
from the Holy Spirit.
--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
>
> It matters not a jot nor title where fervent got the words.
>
> that he is also guilty of theft, or any other sin, does not change the
> fact that he spoke those words in the first person singular, using *I*
> as if he were God.
> fervent spoke the words as if he were the Spirit of God.
> fervent *is* a false prophet.
>
OK, you Old Wet Dog, you.
Your logic is seriously flawed. Speaking in the first person is an
acceptable style used even by people who were indisputably true prophets.
Its use by anyone does not prove or disprove anything. If you attack
Fervent simply on the basis of using the first person singular as you seem
to be doing, you must also attack all the true prophets who spoke in the
first person singular, such as Isaiah and Ezekiel.
This is absolutely no evidence of anything. Give EVIDENCE, not faulty logic
when you sit at the keyboard.
--
Andy Rugg
The Cheerful Pickle
To email me, please remove the "56" from the reply-to address. Thanks.
> Below I will show that fervent's "prophesy" is nothing but plagiarism,
each
> and every word of it.
ROTFLMAO!!!!
I knew it was not original but guessed it was the usual paraphrase. So much
for Fervent's"special word of God" to Vera 666 and the bully building
team!!!! Will she still keep Fervent's "prophecies" on her webshite?
I have sent an email to k...@clarion-call.org This is it below...
######################################################
http://www.etpv.org/2003/twomp.html has:
"My manifested Sons are now being prepared to answer the groaning and
travail of the desperate agonizing creation enslaved to the bondage of sin,
degradation, powerless living, and the depravities of darkness."
Is this your words, please help, is the web link yours, someone else may be
using this as their own. Can you help me.
God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner,
and any man who does....
I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
.
Of course not.
See what you have done.
> I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
If you have such.
Vera, I'm not done.
>
>
>>I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
>
>
> If you have such.
>
>
>
>
>>--
>>oldwetdog
>>-----
>>"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
>>mind." Jacques Maritain
>>http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
>>.
>>
>
>
>
> > God takes no pleasure in the fall of the sinner,
> > and any man who does....
>
> Of course not.
> See what you have done.
Vera 666, I again suggest you look at Donna Kupp's proposal. You are
facing Dresden. Think about it!
####################################################
Peace and greetings to you all. It seems to me that
much of the present strife in the postings that appear on
the public forum could be resolved with a name change of
the private website to something like: "Vera's Christian
Fellowship Group"
1. Most everyone presently in the forum already know
Vera and could continue to participate in her private
moderated website.
2. The name would blend in with the warmth of the home-like
atmosphere she wants to present.
3. She pays for the website, and with use of her name, she
would be justifed in moderating it in the same way she would
supervise activities in her private home.
4. Since it is an acceptable standard practice to post
personal websites on the public forum, "Vera's Christian
Fellowship Group." would make the clear distinction between
ACC and her private website that almost all of us want to
accomplish.
5. alt.christnet.christianlife, also known as: ACC will
always remain the public unmoderated forum that it has
been from the beginning. So, all of us can be forever
reconcilled to the fact that since it is a forum of
free speech, it will always be filled with debates.
Ungodly and profane deceivers will come to proprogate their
lies; but the LORD will send some of His people to contend
for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.
Friends, a great work must be done before the coming of the
Lord. He is coming for a church that is without spot
or wrinkle; for a glorious church that is holy and without
blemish.
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:
and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:
and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be."
Rev 22:11-12
Jesus, the Judge, is at the door. Are we ready to say:
"Amen, Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus
Christ be with you all. Amen."
Donna Kupp
########################################################
<snipped for length>
Interesting...very interesting. It appears you are quite right.
<snipped for length>
You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
their own.
I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
plagiarizes someone else...
You are:
Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that
offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they
come!
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about
his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend
one of these little ones.
Luk 17:2
Maybe not with your evil job here.
But you ARE done.
You have attacked the body of Christ.
Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but
that offences will come: but woe unto him, through
whom they come!
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged
about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he
should offend one of these little ones.
Luk 17:1-2
Please test the spirits Enigma.
The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ and not on actual or even
apparent mistakes of others.
And did fervent err in what he shared? Maybe in not giving credit to the
instrument God used, but when has that ever been our focus. Our focus is
not the intrument God used, but the God who uses us all according to His
perfect plan.
If Bill Somer shared for the edification of the body, then those were not
his words but God's -- for nothing good or holy comes from us. All good
things are from God, right?
And if the words are God's, then He cannot plagerize Himself, correct?
This is not a defense of fervert. Christ will look at his heart and either
be his defender or his accuser, but not until that final day.
What this is, is a cry of one in discernment to say that the spirit many are
speaking in right now, is the very spirit that seeks to shift the focus off
of Christ by whatever means are necessary. He will get us talking about
sinner or saints; where people have stood and where they have fallen; what
they have boldly said or where they have been cowed into silence; where
others have failed and how unfailing we are (!).
It's about discernment.
We need to recognize our foe, so we will not do his duty of shifting the
focus off of the author and finisher of our faith.
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding
us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily
entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who
for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has
sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Yours in Christ,
Griz
Diana
"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvo6e5k...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi Andy!
>
> >OK, you Old Wet Dog, you.
> >
> >Your logic is seriously flawed. Speaking in the first person is an
> >acceptable style used even by people who were indisputably true
prophets.
> >Its use by anyone does not prove or disprove anything. If you
attack
> >Fervent simply on the basis of using the first person singular as
you seem
> >to be doing, you must also attack all the true prophets who spoke
in the
> >first person singular, such as Isaiah and Ezekiel.
> >
> >This is absolutely no evidence of anything. Give EVIDENCE, not
faulty
> logic
> >when you sit at the keyboard.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Andy Rugg
> >The Cheerful Pickle
>
> Good to see you poke your cheerful face into the midst of all this!
> Glenn is overly focussing on "giving evidence" right now. He is the
accuser
> of the brethren. He has made many claims, but backed them all up
with the
> same logic we saw here.
>
> I think however, that it would be good to let this sleeping dog lie
as he
> will, and to remind the body of Christ, that our focus is Christ.
>
> For so long as we are focussing on anything BUT Christ (and
encouraging
> others to do the same), the accuser of the body will remain strong.
>
> When we both know that he is a defeated foe.
>
> And I would encourage the regular posters to hold fast during this
time.
> They come from time to time - allowed by God if you can fathom
that - to
> show us and those in silent observation just what happens when so
many allow
> Satan to get their focus off of Christ.
> I would urge all who continue to watch this spectacle with an
increasing
> burden on their hearts to not enter into that method or mindset with
them.
> Simply thank them for their views, and return the focus to Christ.
>
> And I would keep the subject line of this post intact, simply to
point out
> the true fragility of the devil's ploys against us. It seems quite
damning
> and accusatory -- but look at it from the Kingdom and it becomes
quite clear
> that if Bill Somers offered words up for God's greater glory, he did
so not
> of himself but of the Spirit. He spoke the words, but they were the
> property of the Spirit for the sake of edifying the body.
> If the Spirit wishes those same words to be spoken elsewhere for the
same
> purpose, then there is no sin, no plagarism!
> Only the devil would think of accusing God of plagarizing Himself --
or
> imply that He does not have the right to take what He has given, and
use it
> where ever He pleases.
>
> Recognize our foe.
> That is what discernment is all about. Then you will see clearly
his ploys
> and not be held accountable for willingly taking part in his ploys
against
> the redeemed.
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Griz
>
>
Vera,
Where did Christ ever delete the words of those he disagreed with,
where did he ever force his views on others or censor them?
Didn't he answer his enemies questions and prove everything he said
with the word of God,
using biblical principles? Didn't he expose them truthfully to warn
others?
When his enemies tried to silence him, accuse him, and trap him,
mingling with the multitudes, did he wipe his feet and walk away from
those multitudes because of the false shepherds among them, even
though though those false shepherds believed their authority from God
and that they were his chosen people?
Mar 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved
with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a
shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
Mar 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them
as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
Are you his child?
Hbr 5
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and
supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to
save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which
he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk,
even as he walked.
Think.
~ Cindy
Where did Christ ever delete the words of those he disagreed with,
where did he ever force his views on others or censor them?
Didn't he answer his enemies questions and prove everything he said
with the word of God,
using biblical principles? Didn't he expose them truthfully to warn
others?
When his enemies tried to silence him, accuse him, and trap him,
mingling with the multitudes, did he wipe his feet and walk away from
those multitudes because of the false shepherds among them, even
though though those false shepherds believed their authority from God
Vera 666 has to blame someone!
Glenn, get a grip!
It's about time that someone asked this false shepherd exactly what he means by
this new mantra he is constantly chanting when confronted with Truth lovers.
Exactly how does standing for the Truth of God's Word, examining prophecies and
withstanding false prophets take our "focus off of Christ". Is he of the opinion
that Jesus encouraged or excused false prophets rather than warning us they were
coming in droves right before His return? Is he of the opinion that we are not
supposed to "prove all thing" and only hold onto that which is "good"?? If
standing for Truth is "taking people's eyes off of Christ" is he of the opinion
that we only have our eyes on Christ when our head is in the sand?
He chants this mantra because he has not one leg to stand on in the Bible. In
fact, just the opposite is true. Look what Paul said to the Corinthians:
"For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did
repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were
but for a season. Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye
sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye
might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to
salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2
Cor. 7:8-10)
If Paul had agreed with Griz, the Corinthians might never have repented. But he
didn't consider telling them the Truth to be "taking their eyes off of Christ",
but focusing them upon Him Who said that He is "...the Truth". Enigma is doing
nothing less.
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org
hi sister -- relax and trust in the God of your salvation.
i know you have put a heart of love into making a website -- and that the
manuvering of others to make webpages and such to provide an alternative to
your own can and does feel like a slap in the face.
maybe it is. in some ways most certainly. in other ways probably not. it's a
mix or a combo.
the chat 3 coincidence was something that on the surface appeared very wrong.
i went immediately and looked at the webpage when i saw the "chat 3" post.
since the url said, "chat3.html" i checked "chat2.html" and "chat1.html" and
found the other chat rooms.
(by the way -- i have no idea which thread this post is in -- i just wished to
encourage you vera -- so for this thread -- i may be off topic)
when i saw that -- the missunderstanding made sense. it is something that
needs correction -- because "chat3" has come to mean a specific chat on
acc-growingdeeper.
my advice -- offer kindness -- embrace the new chat and the works of others --
put links on your site to the chat as well.
you have built a wonderful website. fantastic really. you built it with an
industrious heart of love and with the noblest of intentions.
matt percieves injustice and for the most part -- he is working to bring
correction to what he perceives. is his heart longing to be a part of a
community online which seeks to build up the body of Christ and be a light unto
the world?
in heated days like this -- who can judge by appearance? in days of heated
exchange it can be difficult to judge by words.
has matt missed the human heart which made the website you operate? -- no doubt
it appears that way. it might be safe to say that matt has been diligent and a
true searcher -- and yet that he has seen only the characture built by those
who have slandered you and beaten on you and picked and picked and picked.
he also has only met you in the heated days of exchange while you are being hit
upon with repeated insults and blows and attacks. let me be somewhat more
forceful -- he has only met you in days when you have been slandered and
ridiculed in ways most undeserved. hardly a time to catch someone at their
best...
when push comes to shove -- i suspect from what i have read that matt himself
would come to your defense. i cannot know that -- at this stage he is just a
characture in my eyes too.
sister, strain to hear the human voice of your enemies. i know you do this
with people that no one here would imagine... :-)
i know of your deep love for a certain individual of whom most of usenet
considers an enemy of the highest order.
do unto others -- not as they do unto you - but as you would have them do unto
you.
i mean nothing of a lecture by these words. i myself have sat and looked at
post after post where people have outright lied and contradicted themselves and
have created versions of the truth which they wield like an axe. and i have
left many a reply -- unsent.
traffic on this newsgroup seems un-naturally huge these days -- everybody loves
a holy war. people tend to swarm to fires and fist fights.
when they swarmed on Christ -- i always remember the picture of his hands on
the cross as an example for us all. he did not clench his hands into a fist
when he stood bombarded by the evil empire which took over his chosen people.
he did not clench his hands into a fist when the people yelled, "crucify him,
crucify him!"
no, instead he did as he always had -- he held out his hands -- open and
welcoming to the stubborn people who rejected his call for love and peace...
saying tearfully, "jerusalem, jerusalem..."
he did not clench his hands into a fist - but instead offered himself open
palmed to the nails of rejection.
he did not clench his fist, but with open hands he took hold of salvation and
brought heaven down to earth and the people of earth up to heaven.
so, when i find my hands clenched in a fist -- i sometimes open my palms --
lift them up and pray.
did i mean to suggest that Jesus was not in a fight? -- by no means. he could
have called down a legion of angels and ended the whole matter -- but he knew
who his real enemy was -- and in defeating his real enemy -- he even offered
his own blood for those who would crucify him.
what manner of love has the Father lavished upon us...
lavished -- the highest price -- spilled ridiculously for you and i -- he
withheld not his very Son.
let us fix our eyes upon the Author and Finisher of our faith -- the Savior
Jesus Christ.
peac3d.
pablo
a donut without a hole is a danish...
>hi sister -- relax and trust in the God of your salvation.
Hello Vera,
I whole heartedly agree with Pablo, and have but one thing to add...
Remember dear sister, you are loved, and that love will never wax cold...
The love of Christ is from eternity, to eternity, and the love of those in
Christ is with you now, as well as for you...
Your name is lifted high, unto the Lord of Hosts, so fear not, He has
heard our prayers and will strengthen you...
Cal...
Be always ready to give an answer to every man about the hope that lies
within you, with gentleness and respect...
<snip>
The "Griz Cult" which posts on ACC, is not the body of Christ.
OWD
>>You know, there is nothing wrong with desiring the spiritual gifts.
>>However, it's a different matter entirely when someone wants a gift so
>>bad that they plagiarize someone else's posting and passes it off as
>>their own.
>>
>>I wonder if Fervent also fakes speaking in tongues, or if he just
>>plagiarizes someone else...
>
>
> Please test the spirits Enigma.
> The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ and not on actual or even
> apparent mistakes of others.
>
Griz would have you ignore the evidence against a false prophet,
because seeing it would be "taking the focus" off Christ.
Did Christ warn of false prophets? If we acknowledge His warning, how
are we taking our eyes off Him by obeying His command?
Griz, would you please post this Quote
("The One True Spirit tells us to focus on Christ")
in its Scriptural context.
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Griz
>
>
Book, Chapter and verse will be fine.
--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
.
Griz, the way you "test the spirits" is to examine false teachings
(like the manifest sons of God teaching) and false prophecies in light
of scripture.
I don't think you can "test the spirits" by ignoring the heresies that
are professed to the assembly of believers.
May God Bless you this evening.
28:5
Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all
[things].
"Vera Six" <veranospa...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bth19q$9v8$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
> "oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:vvncp99...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Vera, I'm not done.
>
>
> Maybe not with your evil job here.
>
> But you ARE done.
>
> You have attacked the body of Christ.
>
>
> Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but
> that offences will come: but woe unto him, through
> whom they come!
> It were better for him that a millstone were hanged
> about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he
> should offend one of these little ones.
>
> Luk 17:1-2
>
> > >
> > >>I hope with all my heart that fervent can come to God.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you have such.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>--
> > >>oldwetdog
> > >>-----
> > >>"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
> > >>mind." Jacques Maritain
> > >>http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
> > >>.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Job 8:22
They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of
the wicked shall come to nought.
>Glenn, get a grip!
Hi Chayil
What we've been doing lately on the group is when someone winds up and lets
fly with some pure, childish hate - is simply to snip it.
There's a lot of hurt that can be carried by words, even 3rd and 4th hand.
It does no good to block the ones spouting the wounding words, if friends
start importing it back and continuing to do their dirty work for them.
That's part of the reason why Vera has left.
Yours in service,
Griz
Okay Griz,
Thanks for telling me. It took me a good few minutes to understand what you
were speaking of, but I have noticed what you snipped. My apologies to Vera
about that.
This probably goes without saying, but for the record my responding to the
post (even unsnipped) in no way represents my accomodation of the
terminology used (as is evidenced I think in my response). While I don't
consider what I did "doing someone's dirty work for them" I can certainly
appreciate that seeing such things may be hurtful no matter the source. As
such, I promise to take more care with that in the future.
I am not sure why Vera left, but I would belief it may be more complicated
than that. Nonetheless, I am sure that God is watching over her wherever
she goes.
God Bless,
Chayil
> Yours in service,
>
> Griz
>
>
Amen!
It gives me no pleasure to remind readers that I pointed this out a long
while back. Our prayers ought to be for Fervent tonight.
Mike
"Mike Horyn" <mike...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:hQ3Lb.779659$Fm2.758507@attbi_s04...
...whatever ...
The focus of this unmoderated newsgroup is Christian life.
Remember the bible says in Phi 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatever is TRUE ...
dwell on these things." (my emphasis)
Would you like to repond to the following of my posts?
###############################
For all at alt.christnet.christianlife
Now that the Grizzle Guts cult has lost most of its sting the question of
how we treat former members and their victims is an issue that needs to be
discussed and addressed by all, as is our learning from the mistakes of the
past.
When the Nazis took over Germany in WW II the Lutheran church was divided
into those who supported Hitler and those who opposed him. After the war
the two sides reconciled and became one again with forgiveness on both
sides.
We cannot be like those who have victimised us. We cannot be tryrants of
another ilk or "bullies for freedom" when the war is over. We cannot change
the old regime for a new regime.
If we claim to be Christian then we should great others who claim to be
Christian as our brothers and sisters. As this unmoderated forum is for ALL
Christians there will always be denominational differences. This should not
be a bar for fellowship nor a reason to stop talking to another who claims
to be Christian. No-one should be forced to believe the same doctrine as
another Christian.
In the same manner, there can be no leaders. We are ALL equal in Christ and
members of the same body. We ALL have a part to play ... including Vera and
Griz.
I ask for others to comment on and discuss this aspect that needs to be
addressed before it arrives on our doorstep unawares.
Maybe you could read II Corinthians 3-11 as a start for these dicussions.
There has been a fight for the freedom of this newsgroup. That freedom is
all but won. What do we do now to heal the victims and help the vanquished?
Mark
"HeLovesYou" <fpri...@ndak.net> wrote in message
news:vvpmnqg...@corp.supernews.com...
For fervent.
Griz
Amen
Diana
"Griz" <gr...@delete.cois.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vvqdgc8...@corp.supernews.com...