Selling / renting / transferring Class C IP Subnet
R. Charles Henry
We own a registered Class C IP Subnet.
254 IP addresses assigned directly to us by
APNIC (there is no-one else upstream), are they worth anything to
sell, rent or, relinquish claim to ?
What would it be worth?
How / who would I sell it to?
Thanks in advance
John Oliver
> Hi All
>
> We own a registered Class C IP Subnet.
>
> 254 IP addresses assigned directly to us by
> APNIC (there is no-one else upstream), are they worth anything to
> sell, rent or, relinquish claim to ?
No. APNIC has plenty of other addresses. If you don't need them, you
should return them to APNIC. A big part of the "IPv4 shortage" is
caused by people/organizations like you... get a delegation that's
*waaaay* too big, like BBN or AT&T, and then sit on 'em because "they're
a valuable commocity".
Use 'em, or give 'em back.
Oh, and APNIC doesn't do any routing... there will *always* be "someone
upstream", becasue all APNIC gives you is a delegation... that
delegation still has to be announced by someone.
--
John Oliver, CCNA http://www.john-oliver.net/
Linux/UNIX/network consulting http://www.john-oliver.net/resume/
*** sendmail, Apache, ftp, DNS, spam filtering ***
**** Colocation, T1s, web/email/ftp hosting ****
david parsons
R. Charles Henry <trapforcanne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi All
>
>We own a registered Class C IP Subnet.
>
>254 IP addresses assigned directly to us by
>APNIC (there is no-one else upstream), are they worth anything to
>sell, rent or, relinquish claim to ?
APNIC charges quite a bit of money for address space; US$2500 for an
application fee plus US$1250/year for anything up to a /22. So,
yes, they are worth something.
____
david parsons \bi/ I wonder if relinquishing a domain counts as charity
\/ to the Inland Revenue?
Vernon Schryver
david parsons <o...@pell.portland.or.us> wrote:
> ...
>>254 IP addresses assigned directly to us by
>>APNIC (there is no-one else upstream), are they worth anything to
>>sell, rent or, relinquish claim to ?
>
> APNIC charges quite a bit of money for address space; US$2500 for an
> application fee plus US$1250/year for anything up to a /22. So,
> yes, they are worth something.
If that /24 is among the APNIC blocks assigned to parts of Asia
that have entries in anti-spam blacklists all over the world, then
its value might be significantly reduced for anyone who wants to
be able to send SMTP email.
Vernon Schryver v...@rhyolite.com
R. Charles Henry
> On 27 Nov 2002 03:05:18 -0800, R. Charles Henry wrote:
> > Hi All
> >
> > We own a registered Class C IP Subnet.
> >
> > 254 IP addresses assigned directly to us by
> > APNIC (there is no-one else upstream), are they worth anything to
> > sell, rent or, relinquish claim to ?
>
> No. APNIC has plenty of other addresses. If you don't need them, you
> should return them to APNIC. A big part of the "IPv4 shortage" is
> caused by people/organizations like you... get a delegation that's
> *waaaay* too big, like BBN or AT&T, and then sit on 'em because "they're
> a valuable commocity".
>
> Use 'em, or give 'em back.
>
> Oh, and APNIC doesn't do any routing... there will *always* be "someone
> upstream", becasue all APNIC gives you is a delegation... that
> delegation still has to be announced by someone.
Heh. Thanks for taking the time to post, John. The results of all my
research so far are in complete agreement with your standpoint.
Trouble is, I need to convince my superiors of this - they beleive it
is possible to make money out of what they see as their 'ownership' of
these 254 addresses.
From looking at the RIPE NCC's faq:
http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/faq/general/qa1.html#12
"Classful addressing (class A, class B, class C, etc) is now redundant
and the RIPE NCC no longer uses that terminology. The original model
for distributing IP addresses, based on classful addressing
strategies, did not take into account the massive expansion of
Internet use and was unable to scale to meet this expansion. Classless
Inter Domain Routing (CIDR) is now one of the fundamental requirements
for eligibility to receive IP address ranges."
so, I wonder whether, even if trading in assigned IP ranges were
possible or considered 'legit', there would be any value to a 'class
c' these days anyway.
Would you happen to know of any good resources I could use to help
explain to my superiors, that there would be no mileage in trying to
'sell' these IP's?
Thanks for your time.
Darren Mackay
"R. Charles Henry" <trapforcanne...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
After attending an APNIC conference a couple of years ago, where amongst
other things, ownership of address space was discussed. Contrary to my
belief prior to the conference, it appears that individual companies do not
actually own addresses they are allocated and that IP addresses are the
properly of the address registry in the region.
Have you checked with APNIC whether you are actually allowed to sell your
allocation?
I am sure that others here would also be interested to hear what APNIC's
current stance on this is.
Darren
Darren Mackay
| Would you happen to know of any good resources I could use to help
| explain to my superiors, that there would be no mileage in trying to
| 'sell' these IP's?
A written statement directly from APNIC
R. Charles Henry
Hi Darren,
Yes I've emailed APNIC to ask about their stance - I'll post back with
their response.
glen herrmannsfeldt
"Darren Mackay" <dar...@DELETECAPITALSdarrenmackay.com> wrote in message
news:23GF9.27033$hg1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> After attending an APNIC conference a couple of years ago, where amongst
> other things, ownership of address space was discussed. Contrary to my
> belief prior to the conference, it appears that individual companies do
not
> actually own addresses they are allocated and that IP addresses are the
> properly of the address registry in the region.
>
> Have you checked with APNIC whether you are actually allowed to sell your
> allocation?
Even if you can't sell, you can usually get around it. Split the company,
with
the addresses going to one part, then that part is bought by the other
company.
This is usually done to get around various tax laws, but probably works in
this case, too. Probably more assests than just the addresses should go,
but exactly how much I have no idea.
One you do transfer it, you need to find someone who can route the
addresses to the new owner. That may or may not be easy.
-- glen
Barry Margolin
glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>One you do transfer it, you need to find someone who can route the
>addresses to the new owner. That may or may not be easy.
If the address is provider-independent, any enterprise ISP should be able
to route it.
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@genuity.net
Genuity, Woburn, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
glen herrmannsfeldt
"Barry Margolin" <bar...@genuity.net> wrote in message
news:JeYF9.2$9N6....@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
> In article <CWNF9.158277$WL3.65627@rwcrnsc54>,
> glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >One you do transfer it, you need to find someone who can route the
> >addresses to the new owner. That may or may not be easy.
>
> If the address is provider-independent, any enterprise ISP should be able
> to route it.
Maybe they should, but a lot that I know won't. It is hard enough
to get them to do the things they are normally supposed to do.
Well, what does it mean to be an enterprise ISP?
-- glen
Barry Margolin
That their market is businesses, rather than home users. The types of
services that are needed by an office of 30 people are quite different from
ordinary consumers. A business hosting hundreds of web sites is likely to
need more stable addresses, so ISPs that target this market are likely to
be able to route arbitrary address blocks.
glen herrmannsfeldt
> In article <swZF9.162793$%m4.6...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
> glen herrmannsfeldt <g...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> >Well, what does it mean to be an enterprise ISP?
>
> That their market is businesses, rather than home users. The types of
> services that are needed by an office of 30 people are quite different
from
> ordinary consumers. A business hosting hundreds of web sites is likely to
> need more stable addresses, so ISPs that target this market are likely to
> be able to route arbitrary address blocks.
That sounds good, but not what I always see. Many like to standardize
their service to keep costs down, and then refuse to do anything not
within their standardized methods. If you pay more, you get more
service.
-- glen
David Schwartz
> Would you happen to know of any good resources I could use to help
> explain to my superiors, that there would be no mileage in trying to
> 'sell' these IP's?
They should see the simple logic that you can't sell what you don't
own.
DS
Alun Jones
.. and that simply keeping quiet about it may result in the real owners
assuming that it's not in use, and repossessing it from under them.
Alun.
~~~~
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