Freelancer combat/flight model and the "Z" key... am i the only one that uses this?
Tim Bolin
primarily the whole i-war style physics-based model vs the "airplane
in space" model... and i find myself wondering if these folks just
clicked through all the tutorial hints that pop up through the first
few missions, or if i am somehow missing what they are complaining
about... (i dont mean the lack of joystick issue, im not going to get
into that here)...
what i mean is, does anyone else use the "Z" key to cut the engines so
you can turn and fire while you just keep sliding along in the
original direction of travel, a la the advanced flight model in i-war?
it really makes combat a whole new ballgame...
when this is used in conjunction with the afterburner (tab) to
re-vector your craft, suddenly combat gets a whole lot more
interesting... i generally hit Z right away when i get into combat
range, and from that point forwards, i use nothing but tiny spurts of
my AB to get around... it makes "circle strafing" possible, and makes
it virtually impossible for the AI to target you, because you suddenly
are able to move at very nearly right-angles all the time... and has
the effect of turning your entire craft into one big honking turret...
this makes the normally unweildy and difficult to pilot freighters
(cant steer when in turret targeting mode) suddenly very effective...
it also makes strafing large ships (cruisers, etc) possible, as well
making it much easier to (tiny spoiler) nail immobile objects like
shield generators without getting cut to pieces...
oh yeah and missiles tend to get very confused and miss, especially
when youre suddenly moving at a right angle to your original vector...
anyhow, am i the only one using this feature? once i discovered it and
took some time to master it, it made an otherwise workmanlike combat
experience into a TON of fun, especially in the asteroid fields :)
to those who say they are hating the flight model, i recommend you try
this out... just head into combat, hit Z, and use your AB in tiny
spurts (seriously, like "tap... tap... tap...") and see if it makes it
at least more interesting for you...
-Tim
FLY135
"Tim Bolin" <radio_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43c2b7c4.0303...@posting.google.com...
> to those who say they are hating the flight model, i recommend you try
> this out... just head into combat, hit Z, and use your AB in tiny
> spurts (seriously, like "tap... tap... tap...") and see if it makes it
> at least more interesting for you...
I'll have to give this a try. I have "increase thrust", "reverse, and
"strafe" (A/D) mapped to my MS Strategic Commander. I'll map another button
to Z and see how I like it. I uninstalled the demo because it just craps
out to the splash screen at a certain point. It looked like it was as soon
as I got 15,000 in credits. I uninstalled it, but might reinstall to try
this. As soon as I started using the Strategic Commander the combat felt a
lot more immersive. At least it has strafe capability. Too bad there is no
roll. The NPCs are rolling almost constantly. Sort of like they are
taunting you because you can't do it.
It's a shame you can't own more than one ship. It would be great if you
could buy a freighter, then hire a pilot to take it to the destination.
That way you could fly fighter escort missions for your own freighter.
Hiring other fighters to escort would be cool too. It doesn't seem like
that should have been very difficult considering that the AI seems to
already be in place for that sort of thing.
MajorFreak
> ive seen people complaining about the flight model used in freelancer,
> primarily the whole i-war style physics-based model vs the "airplane
> in space" model... and i find myself wondering if these folks just
> what i mean is, does anyone else use the "Z" key to cut the engines so
> you can turn and fire while you just keep sliding along in the
> original direction of travel, a la the advanced flight model in i-war?
> it really makes combat a whole new ballgame...
>
> to those who say they are hating the flight model, i recommend you try
> this out... just head into combat, hit Z, and use your AB in tiny
> spurts (seriously, like "tap... tap... tap...") and see if it makes it
> at least more interesting for you...
>
> -Tim
thanks for reminding me about that, Tim. I still have the demo
installed (plus the MODhacks to it for unlimited credits and gear/ship
choices)...but i needed an excuse to try it again. thanks for
providing my reason for bothering!
Bendit
change everything. I wouldn't say that the AI sucks at tracking you
though. They still hit you and missiles also hit you. It really
depends what your trajectory is in regards to the enemy ships (I am
talking about a combat mission of level 18 for 10500$). It'll take
some practice to master the "tap...tap..." thingy, because longer taps
also produce an interesting experience. Thanks for the idea.
radio_...@yahoo.com (Tim Bolin) wrote in message news:<43c2b7c4.0303...@posting.google.com>...
Tim Bolin
news:Qh5ba.12371$wJ1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> It's a shame you can't own more than one ship. It would be great if
> you could buy a freighter, then hire a pilot to take it to the
> destination. That way you could fly fighter escort missions for your
> own freighter. Hiring other fighters to escort would be cool too. It
> doesn't seem like that should have been very difficult considering
> that the AI seems to already be in place for that sort of thing.
i agree... thats my only real gripe, that if i decide i want to haul cargo
for a change i have to sell my fighter at a huge loss... then take another
loss when im tired of trading... if i could just own two ships it would
increase my enjoyment of the game significantly...
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Tim Bolin
news:ojaq6v4tgdlvjr19g...@4ax.com:
> radio_...@yahoo.com (Tim Bolin) wrote:
>
>>what i mean is, does anyone else use the "Z" key to cut the engines so
>>you can turn and fire while you just keep sliding along in the
>>original direction of travel, a la the advanced flight model in i-war?
>>it really makes combat a whole new ballgame...
>
> I tried this (also with the Turret Mode via H key), but given the
> universal speed cap, I found the increased hits on my ship due to my
> constant course outweighs the advantages of shooting in a different
> direction than movement. IWar is different, since you can keep on
> accelerating and the enemy cannot continue to manuever around you.
hmm... ive found it to be the exact opposite... in terms of damage
received i mean... i get beat up MUCH more when i just fly the usual
way... but then, i might just suck at the normal way of flying :)
>>range, and from that point forwards, i use nothing but tiny spurts of
>>my AB to get around... it makes "circle strafing" possible, and makes
>>it virtually impossible for the AI to target you, because you suddenly
>>are able to move at very nearly right-angles all the time... and has
>
> This is fine if you only have to fight one or a couple of AI ships.
> When you have 7-8 ships coming at you from all directions, "strafing"
> a target is a luxury you don't have. The AI will always do a head-on
> against you, and even though you will take more damage obliging it,
> you will also kill units faster this way, and the kill time per AI
> ship is important as you will have all of the other AI ships firing at
> you in that while. The cumulative damage is then less than if you
> dance around with the target ship.
again, this has not been my experience... and when i add mines to the mix
to scatter the AI and force them to either target the mines, or maintain
full throttle to outrun them it gets even better, and allows me to cut
single ships from the herd and kill them without too much interference...
typically when using this strategy i never lose my shield, even against
7-10 AIs, whereas when i dont do this i get cut to pieces in short
order... but again, there is every possibility i suck at the normal style
flying, so...
>>it also makes strafing large ships (cruisers, etc) possible, as well
>>making it much easier to (tiny spoiler) nail immobile objects like
>>shield generators without getting cut to pieces...
>
> Other than targets in the plot missions, there is no large ship or
> base that you can do combat with in the free-form portion of the game,
> as they are all invulnerable (no damage bar). I've tried shooting at
> a battleship for about 15 minutes (I had so high shields that I can
> just sit in one place plinking away), and dumping the whole load of 50
> torps into it. Nothing. You won't see any gunboat, either, just
> weapon platforms. For those, I use the X key to kill them on the
> first pass.
this is true... and it sucks, too... i dont play the SP game anymore, i
just play a solo multi game (server on my own machine, locked) and i was
really annoyed to discover i couldnt take out bases... i should be able
to destroy an outcast base and significantly reduce the number of ships
controlled by that faction in that system until they could rebuild... or
SOMEthing like that...
>>oh yeah and missiles tend to get very confused and miss, especially
>>when youre suddenly moving at a right angle to your original vector...
>
> I carried a CM pod at the beginning, until I found how wimpy missiles
> are. With the early shields you get, a big missile can do 1/2 damage,
> which is a fair bit. But once you get better shields, it's almost not
> worth the effort to dodge them.
i dunno, they seem to do pretty good damage to me still... im only level
20 though so maybe it gets better, but in the mean time, i still dodge
them :)
>>anyhow, am i the only one using this feature? once i discovered it and
>>took some time to master it, it made an otherwise workmanlike combat
>>experience into a TON of fun, especially in the asteroid fields :)
>
> The litmus test would be to win those level 40 bounty hunting
> missions. In my experience, free-flight for any amount of time in
> combat is a bad idea. But if you are proficient enough with it, I'd
> suggest taking a freighter as your main ship, and use the Turret Mode
> (H), as it's very equivalent. And you get the bonus of large cargo
> cap as well.
havent gotten to missions that deadly yet, but ill let you know how well
it works for me when i do :)
Tim Bolin
news:8c6cbb0d.03031...@posting.google.com:
> thanks for reminding me about that, Tim. I still have the demo
> installed (plus the MODhacks to it for unlimited credits and gear/ship
> choices)...but i needed an excuse to try it again. thanks for
> providing my reason for bothering!
hope it works for you, i personally love it... the jury is still out for me as to how effective it
will be late in the game (see other responses re that) but for now, i get a kick out of it...
Tim Bolin
news:b21825bc.0303...@posting.google.com:
> I have tried the "Z" key combat strategy. I like it a lot. It does
> change everything. I wouldn't say that the AI sucks at tracking you
> though. They still hit you and missiles also hit you. It really
> depends what your trajectory is in regards to the enemy ships (I am
> talking about a combat mission of level 18 for 10500$). It'll take
> some practice to master the "tap...tap..." thingy, because longer taps
> also produce an interesting experience. Thanks for the idea.
its true, they do still hit you, but they tend not to hit me nearly as
much... but then i dont stay on one vector for too long, or try not to
anyhow...
as a side note, another somewhat useless but interesting thing to do with
this is to stay in cruise until youre just about in targeting range of
hostiles (2.5k-3k ADU) and instead of cutting the cruise engine, cut the
engines entirely with the Z key... youll keep flying at speed 300 but can
track and fire at them as you slide by at extremely high speed :) i
generally do this by not heading straight at the group of enemy ships,
but off to a slight angle, so they have to track to target me, and i can
just spray laser at them all bunched up in a group...
Petter Nilsen
"Bip" <b...@att.com> wrote in message
news:ojaq6v4tgdlvjr19g...@4ax.com...
> Other than targets in the plot missions, there is no large ship or base
> that you can do combat with in the free-form portion of the game, as they
> are all invulnerable (no damage bar). I've tried shooting at a battleship
That's not entirely correct. You do get to blow up large bases on some of
the tougher missions in the Border Worlds, usually Bounty Hunter bases.
My personal problem now is that I have all miners and police forces after me
and I'm getting a bit tired cruising around the outer worlds with 6 extra
class 10 lasers I can't mount because I already have the Nomad blasters and
cannons filling up all the spots in the Titan :-) Luxury problem, I guess.
- Petter
DocScorpio
Tim Bolin <radiox_...@xyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns933B7F5AF7A8Br...@216.65.98.28...[snip]
>
> as a side note, another somewhat useless but interesting thing to do with
> this is to stay in cruise until youre just about in targeting range of
> hostiles (2.5k-3k ADU) and instead of cutting the cruise engine, cut the
> engines entirely with the Z key... youll keep flying at speed 300 but can
> track and fire at them as you slide by at extremely high speed :) i
> generally do this by not heading straight at the group of enemy ships,
> but off to a slight angle, so they have to track to target me, and i can
> just spray laser at them all bunched up in a group...
>
>
Ah! Brings to mind the WC "afterburner slide" of yore. I've got to try some
of your tactics.....sounds like great fun. So far (Mission 11), I've used
the simplest tactics and easily prevailed. OTOH, the WC AI routinely handed
me my ass, until I learned the AB slide.
Petter Nilsen
> Did you ever find any freighter better than the Rheinland one (i.e. that
> can hold class 10 stuff)? That would be the only reason I'd go back to
the
> game now, as there's nothing else to do.
I never did use a freighter, not sexy enough (not that many of the ships are
that sexy, but that's another story).
> Personally, I think the best weapon in the game is the Outcast Kraken II
> (class 9). At 700/700, it hits better than the Nomad Blaster, which is
> 600/600, even though the Nomad does more damage and uses no power. But
> since the Krak2 slurps up mucho juice, I went with 4 Krak2's and 2
NomadE's
> as my final loadout.
All the class 10 weapons I have are looted from abandoned ships, and all of
the are better than the Kraken, but at a slower fire rate.
<SPOILER>
Here's what I have now as a loadout or carrying around:
Diamondback - Sigma 13, C3-C4, Old Imperial Navy Fighter wrecks
hull: 1173
shield: 586
range: 699
speed: 600
rate: 2.0
energy: 293
power : 2346
efficiency: 8
2 of these.
Guardian - Omicron Alpha, F4, Outcast Fighter wreck at Unknown Jumphole
hull: 1075
shield: 537
range: 699
speed: 600
rate: 2.0
energy: 268
power : 2150
efficiency: 8
2 of these too.
Jade - Sigma 13, C5 (right), Old Imperial Navy Fighter wreck
hull: 652
shield: 326
range: 699
speed: 600
rate: 3.03
energy: 163
power : 1975.56
efficiency: 12.1
Nomad Energy Blaster - Omicron Alpha, F4, drop from Nomad Fighters at
Unknown Jumphole
hull: 635
shield: 317
range: 699
speed: 600
rate: 4.0
energy: 0
power : 2540
efficiency: infinite
2 of these.
Nomad Energy Cannon - Omicron Alpha, F4, drop from Nomad Fighters at Unknown
Jumphole
hull: 847
shield: 423
range: 699
speed: 600
rate: 3.03
energy: 0
power : 2566.41
efficiency: infinite
And just 1 of these.
Wildfire - Omicron Beta, E5 (bottom), Pathfinder wreck
hull: 1075
shield: 537
range: 699
speed: 600
rate: 2.0
energy: 220
power : 2150
efficiency: 9.7
2 of these.
I've had a few others, but I sold them off. Couldn't possibly imagine what I
would need them for.
</SPOILER>
- Petter
Tim Bolin
> Bip <b...@att.com> wrote:
>
>>CALLING ALL FREELANCER POKES! Hey if any ya find a class 10 freighter,
>>drop me a note pritty plizz...
>
> OK I found the ship chart on Lancers Reactor. Looks like no freighter
> better than class 7. Oh well was tired of the game anyway.
sweet jeebus... let me just say that some of you folks must have WAY more
free time than i do... because ive been playing the hell out of the game
(for ME, playing the hell out of a game means every night for an hour or
two) and im nowhere near being at the level some seem to be...
good god no wonder people bitch about games anymore... they just fucking
DEVOUR them, instead of playing and enjoying them... its like a fat guy
inhaling a huge burger in 30 seconds, then looking at everyone else and
saying "i dunno about you, but mine wasnt very good"...
FLY135
> Tim Bolin <radiox_...@xyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >good god no wonder people bitch about games anymore... they just fucking
> >DEVOUR them, instead of playing and enjoying them... its like a fat guy
> >inhaling a huge burger in 30 seconds, then looking at everyone else and
> >saying "i dunno about you, but mine wasnt very good"...
>
> reverse.. I'm like, who let all the grandpas with osteoarthritis in here?
> Have a hard time in Liberty System?! These things should really have a
> "Not for sale to limpwristed people" warning label. Oh well I guess thats
> why there's a fast lane for blazers and a slow lane for grazers.. eat my
> backwash, pops.. ;)
What a nerd! If shaking a mouse around is the pinnacle of your youthful
abilities then I sure wouldn't be bragging. There are plenty of chubby
young potato chip eating pimple faced pussies that could match you on that
score. Post of couple pics of you throwing some big air in the half pipe or
grinding a rail, then maybe you can brag.
MajorFreak
i prefer the logitech trackball myself.
Tim Bolin
news:btmv6vob6mahg771d...@4ax.com:
> reverse.. I'm like, who let all the grandpas with osteoarthritis in
> here? Have a hard time in Liberty System?! These things should really
> have a "Not for sale to limpwristed people" warning label. Oh well I
> guess thats why there's a fast lane for blazers and a slow lane for
> grazers.. eat my backwash, pops.. ;)
you know, there was a point in time when i used to say something very much
like this to the geezers that annoyed me... and was always surprised when
it never seemed to piss them off as much as i expected it to... but for the
first time, i understand... it doesnt piss me off because of the sure and
certain knowledge that you too will find yourself in exactly my position
someday :)
well... assuming you live that long, anyhow :)
Tim Bolin
news:btmv6vob6mahg771d...@4ax.com:
> Hahah funny you say that because I feel exactly the same way except in
> reverse.. I'm like, who let all the grandpas with osteoarthritis in
> here? Have a hard time in Liberty System?! These things should really
> have a "Not for sale to limpwristed people" warning label. Oh well I
> guess thats why there's a fast lane for blazers and a slow lane for
> grazers.. eat my backwash, pops.. ;)
oh yeah and on top of it all, you missed the whole point i was making... it
isnt that i CANT play a game that fast, or even that one SHOULDNT... only
that its difficult to properly enjoy and appreciate a game (or anything
else for that matter) when one just flies through it...
one day some nice girl will explain this principle to you, sonny :)
DocScorpio
Well, not all the "grandpas" had a hard time. ;-) Although I was born
before Admiral Chuichi Nagumo's "Carrier Striking Force" left Japanese
waters (presumably the battleship located at the gate from the Kyushu system
to the Tau 29 system was named for Nagumo), I found the FL campaign to be
rather unchallenging (you want "challenging," try the last mission of WC2
SO1 where you have to kill a zillion Gothri's and 2 cruisers, and still make
it back to the Claw). I finished most of the missions on the first try,
although the second to last one took three tries (mainly because I thought
the lack of "cruise" was a bug). The final mission was a breeze. I'm level
30 now and have saved enough to trade in my Hammerhead for a nice level 10
ship. I've managed to keep the Red Hessions neutral by killing lots of
Corsairs. Guess what ship I'm going to buy. :-)
DocScorpio
DocScorpio <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3Hcca.615$s26...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
make it back to the "Claw," since it was destroyed at the start of WC2 (or
10 years before the start). Don't remember the name of the carrier in WC2.
Must be getting old.
Stanley Kaminski
<snip>
> Heh, heh, the Alzheimers is kicking up again. Obviously you don't have to
> make it back to the "Claw," since it was destroyed at the start of WC2 (or
> 10 years before the start). Don't remember the name of the carrier in WC2.
> Must be getting old.
Concordia?
--
---Stash
"Only the dead have seen the end of war."
-- Plato
Andreas Baus
> I found the FL campaign to be
> rather unchallenging (you want "challenging," try the last mission of WC2
> SO1 where you have to kill a zillion Gothri's and 2 cruisers, and still make
> it back to the Claw).
No, no, no, for a *real* challenge play TIE Fighter with all expansions and
try to get all secret bonus objectives ... remeber that mission where
you're sent to clear out a minefield? In a T/I (no shields!) and then you
have to help your moronic reinforcements take out a couple of capships (in
a T/I, for chrissakes) because alone they couldn't kill a rabbit if you tied
it right across the muzzle of a shotgun, all the while being chased by T/As
(with missiles ... and you don't have any bloody shields!!!)... argh! ...
where's my medication?!
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
DocScorpio
Andreas Baus <an...@cip123.studcs.uni-sb.de> wrote in message
news:b4smi5$dgv$1...@news.tu-darmstadt.de...
I loved TIE fighter! I played it on "hard" so that I could get ALL the
promotions in both the fleet and the "Order" (or whatever it was called).
What a challenge! Believe me, there were plenty of replayed missions. Of
course, you had to get all the bonus and secret objectives to get the
highest ranks (IIRC). That game was absolutely terrific....even if the
missions were somewhat "puzzle" oriented.