Oh Freelancer! how could you :(
Goody Goody Two Shoes
It's enough to make me cry really. Yes yes yes the mouse thing works.
It works. But oh how painful. I hate it :( it sucks. It feels like a
cartoon, not the mature universe that I would like to grow up in.
Stephen Robertson you there? pleeeeeeease make a nice open-ended
tradey sorta thingie but use i-war2 engine. Please?
Freelancer is quake in space
I-war 2 made me think about my strafe. Oh how i loved rocketing past
an enemy cruiser with my engine thingies too fast because i overdid it
and going whoosh and finding myself 20 clicks off. oh it made all the
sense in the world. oh freelancer oh how could you :(
I mean its all very nice that you can like control a flexible turret
with your mouse and shoot off at 3 o clock or whatever but if it were
real you know... you wouldn't have the pilot turreting *and* flying
would you? you'd have some fancy puter tracking other targets for you
or something.
How could you turn space from the big huge thing we all know it is
into the little teeny thing where things are a mysterious "30K" apart
and where you can see planet loads of planets from so far and ohhhhhh
i-war2 with its massive travel distances man oh man.
I've played it in cockpit mode. Better but still ooohhhh how painful.
I tried that little joymouse app someone suggested, nice idea but
ohhhh it didn't do it really. oh my heart is gonna burst.
This thing feels more like tachyon. And that game was fun cos no-one
pretended it was more than what it was. And you could use the
joystick.
And trent is a pain with his "I'm Trent"
oh god it hurts
Stephen Robertson
news:3e644d8a...@news.slingshot.co.nz...
> Stephen Robertson you there? pleeeeeeease make a nice open-ended
> tradey sorta thingie but use i-war2 engine. Please?
Unfortunately we don't have any plans currently for any more I-War games,
even though personally I'd love to do one.
There is the excellent Future Trader mod, that gives you a free-roaming
trading system, and currently in development is the Epic mod, which totally
remakes the game, making it more like what you're asking for.
Go to the fan site www.i-war2.com for details.
Best regards,
-- Steve
Stephen Robertson
Senior Designer
Particle Systems
http://www.particle-systems.com
http://www.independencewar.com/home.htm
http://www.edgeofchaos.net
Jim Lascola
> "Goody Goody Two Shoes" <do...@email.me> wrote in message
> news:3e644d8a...@news.slingshot.co.nz...
> > Stephen Robertson you there? pleeeeeeease make a nice open-ended
> > tradey sorta thingie but use i-war2 engine. Please?
>
> Unfortunately we don't have any plans currently for any more I-War games,
> even though personally I'd love to do one.
>
> There is the excellent Future Trader mod, that gives you a free-roaming
> trading system, and currently in development is the Epic mod, which totally
> remakes the game, making it more like what you're asking for.
>
> Go to the fan site www.i-war2.com for details.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -- Steve
> Stephen Robertson
> Senior Designer
> Particle Systems
input and suggestions and used a enhanced version of your I-WAR engine
imagine the Profits your company would make.
Jim
Guy Under The Bridge
wrote:
>Steve if you wrote a Freelancer type game AND you took all the user
>input and suggestions and used a enhanced version of your I-WAR engine
>imagine the Profits your company would make.
Imagining profits for this game is the primary reason they won't do
another one.
Sorry.
Stephen Robertson
"Jim Lascola" <jimla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4db3c04.03030...@posting.google.com...
> Steve if you wrote a Freelancer type game AND you took all the user
> input and suggestions and used a enhanced version of your I-WAR engine
> imagine the Profits your company would make.
> Jim
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jim!
Unfortunately many people in the games business consider that Space Sims are
not popular any more - just selling to a small hard-core audience, which
makes them unprofitable. That makes it difficult to propose and sign new
space sim games, no matter your track record in the industry.
Speaking personally here, I've got a lot of respect for what Digital Anvil
and Microsoft have done to try to broaden the appeal of Freelancer outside
the Space-Sim genre's core audience. Hopefully Freelancer will revive the
genre amongst publishers and gamers and make it possible for a new
generation of Space Sim games to appear. Not forgetting X2, Eve, and
Starshatter, of course.
Best regards,
-- Steve
Stephen Robertson
Senior Designer
Particle Systems
http://www.particle-systems.com
http://www.independencewar.com/home.htm
http://www.edgeofchaos.net
DocScorpio
>
> "Jim Lascola" <jimla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4db3c04.03030...@posting.google.com...
>
> Speaking personally here, I've got a lot of respect for what Digital
Anvil
> and Microsoft have done to try to broaden the appeal of Freelancer outside
> the Space-Sim genre's core audience. Hopefully Freelancer will revive the
> genre amongst publishers and gamers and make it possible for a new
> generation of Space Sim games to appear. Not forgetting X2, Eve, and
> Starshatter, of course.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -- Steve
> Stephen Robertson
> Senior Designer
> Particle Systems
>
> http://www.particle-systems.com
> http://www.independencewar.com/home.htm
> http://www.edgeofchaos.net
>
with aspects which increase the game's appeal for a broader gaming audience
(i.e., no stick, lack of Newtonian physics, etc). At the moment, the
space-sim genre is dead! We'd all better hope that FL does decently (and I
have my doubts)....or it's going to stay dead. Back in the mid-90's all I
played were space-sims. These days I play mostly rpg's and rts's....after
all, we're lucky if we see one space-sim every two or three years. Nobody
in their right mind is going to invest money in games in a genre not known
for generating sales. Look at a game like the Sims: a total piece of crap
(Yes, I own the original game, and even played it.....for about two days),
yet it's developed into huge franchise. If I were investing in game
development, that's where I'd put my money (just as I'd put it in "reality
shows" if I were investing in TV programming). Sure you'll get a lot of
crap if you shoot for the "casual gamer" (the gamer equivalent of "trailor
trash"), but smaller developers of quality products would also be able to
coat-tail along in a more popular genre.
Guy Under The Bridge
<DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>I agree completely. Most of the criticisms leveled at Freelancer have to do
>with aspects which increase the game's appeal for a broader gaming audience
>(i.e., no stick, lack of Newtonian physics, etc).
Most of the criticisms leveled at Freelancer have to do with how
boring it is. If deliberately editing out realistic physics and not
allowing for the use of a joystick were done in an effort to make it
less boring to a wider market, then they have failed miserably.
Freelancer is a boring game because there is nothing to do after the
short storyline is complete -- which is perhaps a good thing
considering how stale the campaign was getting, revolving around the
game ridiculous combat again and again. Everything about Freelancer
(and just about all other games in the Wing Commander genre) is
ludicrous from a rational point of view, so I hardly miss realistic
physics. In other words, Freelancer is a bad game because of it's lack
of substance. In a game that lacks substance, we have stylistic
achievements to back it up (such as last year's ultimate triumph of
style over substance, GTA: Vice City) but Freelancer is utterly devoid
of this, too.
As a side note, I'm sure the original project leads had no intention
of having Freelancer turn into a such a tedious and boring game. But
the 5-year production cycle of this game tells us that it was fraught
with trouble, stalled initiatives, lack of interest and priority
development resources. Microsoft saved this one.
> At the moment, the
>space-sim genre is dead! We'd all better hope that FL does decently (and I
>have my doubts)....or it's going to stay dead. Back in the mid-90's all I
>played were space-sims.
Space "sims" (how I hesitate to call things from the Wing Commander
genre "sims") as a genre are not very unpopular. Games that are
compelling will be successful. But first, there has to be a developer
to propose a compelling model of a game of this type. If it is
compelling, they will have to problem getting it published.
> These days I play mostly rpg's and rts's....after
>all, we're lucky if we see one space-sim every two or three years. Nobody
>in their right mind is going to invest money in games in a genre not known
>for generating sales.
Wrong. Publishers will put money into anything that looks compelling,
regardless of who you are. If a PC publisher refuses to open their
wallet, console publishers certainly will -- if the game is
compelling. The reason why there aren't many of these is because not
many developers are interested in developing for the genre.
> Look at a game like the Sims: a total piece of crap
>(Yes, I own the original game, and even played it.....for about two days),
>yet it's developed into huge franchise. If I were investing in game
>development, that's where I'd put my money (just as I'd put it in "reality
>shows" if I were investing in TV programming).
If I were into game development, I would probably want to make an
adventure game and a real space sim -- these would be compelling, so I
know they would be published.
DocScorpio
Guy Under The Bridge <GU...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6fvc6vk1q8e3s00cj...@4ax.com...[snip]
>
> If I were into game development, I would probably want to make an
> adventure game and a real space sim -- these would be compelling, so I
> know they would be published.
>
I'm not so sure that "compelling" equals "published"....and "published"
certainly doesn't equal big sales. "Compelling" is a subjective judgment.
What you or I might find "compelling" (i.e., need for special hardware,
joysticks, pedals; Newtonian physics, realism, deep and intricate storyline,
and a steep learning curve. How "compelling" would Falcon 3.0 be to the
average gamer today?) probably would not prove compelling to most pc owners.
The dreaded "casual gamer" just wants to fire up some good-looking game that
easy to play and to beat it without a lot of strain. He's not going to play
it for 17 hours straight so he's less likely to get bored by repetitive
action. IMO, FL is pitched for this market, while still including enough
elements to hopefully bring the more dedicated (obsessed?) gamers along too.
Personally, I don't think FL's going to be a big hit.....but, for the
moment, I'm having fun with it. Talk to me after I've finished the story
line. ;-)
There was no question that I would buy FL....no matter what its quality. I
buy ALL the so-called "open-ended" space-sims that I can find. This doesn't
prove onerous because there haven't really been that many of them: the 3
Elites, P/P2, X-BTF/X-T, Parkan, BC3K/BCM, I-War 2 (modded), Hardwar (well,
close enough) and now FL. Have I missed any? (Hmmm, I seem to recall that
Lightspeed/Hyperspeed, while adventure games, also allowed exploration and
trading, but don't think they fully make the cut. There was also a game for
the MAC, "Suncaster" or something; got a port of it somewhere.)
Samy Merchi
> quality. I buy ALL the so-called "open-ended" space-sims that I
> can find. This doesn't prove onerous because there haven't
> really been that many of them: the 3 Elites, P/P2, X-BTF/X-T,
> Parkan, BC3K/BCM, I-War 2 (modded), Hardwar (well, close enough)
> and now FL. Have I missed any?
Federation of Free Traders?
--
Samy Merchi | sa...@iki.fi | http://www.iki.fi/samy | #152235689
Reader of superhero comic books, writer of superhero fanfiction
"*Astrolabe*...whirls...*twirls*!"
MajorFreak
> "Jim Lascola" <jimla...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4db3c04.03030...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Steve if you wrote a Freelancer type game AND you took all the user
> > input and suggestions and used a enhanced version of your I-WAR engine
> > imagine the Profits your company would make.
> > Jim
>
> Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jim!
>
> Unfortunately many people in the games business consider that Space Sims are
> not popular any more - just selling to a small hard-core audience, which
> makes them unprofitable. That makes it difficult to propose and sign new
> space sim games, no matter your track record in the industry.
>
>> On Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:43:11 GMT, "DocScorpio"
>> <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
hey, folks! I believe that most consumers will eat up microsoft's
pablum about how "Joysticks are phallic objects for geeks with no
life" and BUY a sci-fi game for real men/women, not mice.
just take a look at the official "INTUITIVE INTERFACE" that explicitly
has this prejudice outlined in bold letters:
http://umec.oesm.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=7663#7663
mr bernard langham
> If I were into game development, I would probably want to make an
> adventure game and a real space sim -- these would be compelling, so I
> know they would be published.
I'd choose a Newtonian space sim/first person shooter hybrid.
I think space sims will become compelling again once they the current trend
towards seamless convergence of all game types around the first person
shooter paradigm is finally realised.
Examples of convergent games include "Battlefield 1942", "Operation
Flashpoint", and "WWII Online", which are first person shooters with
enormous outdoor engines featuring driveable vehicles including planes,
choppers, tanks and battleships; "Halo" (fps with vehicles); and "Natural
Selection" or "Renegade", which are FPS/RTS hybrids.
In a convergent, FPS/space sim hybrid, you'd land your armed freighter at an
abandoned space station after killing the automated defence satellites
(newtonian space sim style, full virtual cockpit a la "Il Sturmovik"). You'd
then stand up, turn around, open the cabin door, walk around the hull to the
airlock, cycle it, climb out into the station entry port, and start killing
the aliens infesting the station (first person shooter style a la "Unreal 2"
or "Doom ]|["). Or, if you prefer, walk to the station bar and buy the
locals a round of beers hoping for a mission, "Neocron" style.
The 3D Mark 2003 demo "Battle of Procyon" shows what this kind of convergent
FPS/Space Sim might look like (minus vehicles).
--
>^..^<
Bernard
www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~langhb01
"Acts of rebellious solidarity/Can bring sense to this world/La Resistance!"
Stereolab "French Disko" 1995
Andreas Baus
> Steve if you wrote a Freelancer type game AND you took all the user
> input and suggestions and used a enhanced version of your I-WAR engine
> imagine the Profits your company would make.
I'd give him my first-born child for that ^_^
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
FLY135
"DocScorpio" <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:OkB9a.32$8r2.6...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> There was no question that I would buy FL....no matter what its quality.
I
> buy ALL the so-called "open-ended" space-sims that I can find. This
doesn't
> prove onerous because there haven't really been that many of them: the 3
> Elites, P/P2, X-BTF/X-T, Parkan, BC3K/BCM, I-War 2 (modded), Hardwar
(well,
> close enough) and now FL. Have I missed any?
Terminus!
FLY135
"mr bernard langham" <speedw...@spammustdie.com.au> wrote in message
news:3e67f607$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> "Guy Under The Bridge" <GU...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6fvc6vk1q8e3s00cj...@4ax.com...
>
> > If I were into game development, I would probably want to make an
> > adventure game and a real space sim -- these would be compelling, so I
> > know they would be published.
>
> I'd choose a Newtonian space sim/first person shooter hybrid.
Given a choice between having joystick or newtonian support in FL, I would
take the Newtonian. If that had been a control option in the setup, I would
have been all over this game. I also do not think that having some degree
of Newtonian simulation would turn off even casual space gamers. Especially
if flight modes from "easy to simulation" were selectable and model from
"point and click to full momentum".
mr bernard langham
"FLY135" <fly...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DmJ9a.5471$gF3.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Yeah. I really don't understand the lack of even *optional* joystick support
in FL. I mean, sure, make the game default to mouse control, and if you
must, hide any scary multi-buttoned geek-stick control references down
multiple levels of menus to avoid frightening the casual gamer/quake crowd,
but ffs, how hard is it to add DirectPlay hooks for joystick buttons/axes
into the configuration menus? Not hard at all.
Also, whereas it's hard to write accurate flight models for terrestrial
flight sims (fluid modelling, all kinds of complicated surface/airflow/drag
issues), Newtonian zero-g thruster physics are about as simple as it's
possible to get when it comes to actually writing the movement code. Why not
provide it as an option?
Sounds like someone in the development team was on a crusade, to me (like
Neverwinter Nights, whose developers were on a crusade to omit 1st person
perspective to the point of claiming it was physically impossible in the 3D
engine--until someone hacked together a 1st person mod within a week or two
of the game coming out).
FLY135
> Sounds like someone in the development team was on a crusade, to me (like
> Neverwinter Nights, whose developers were on a crusade to omit 1st person
> perspective to the point of claiming it was physically impossible in the
3D
> engine--until someone hacked together a 1st person mod within a week or
two
> of the game coming out).
Oh wow! I want it. I just bought Neverwinter at Target for $30.
Brad Martin
wrote:
And me! I bought two copies of NWN to play through on co-op, but I
couldn't stand that 3rd person view so I sold 'em! Does this mod work
with multi-play does anyone know?
br d
DocScorpio
of honor" with the rest of them.
DocScorpio
>
> "FLY135" <fly...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DmJ9a.5471$gF3.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
>
> Sounds like someone in the development team was on a crusade, to me (like
> Neverwinter Nights, whose developers were on a crusade to omit 1st person
> perspective to the point of claiming it was physically impossible in the
3D
> engine--until someone hacked together a 1st person mod within a week or
two
> of the game coming out).
>
> --
> >^..^<
> Bernard
> www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~langhb01
> "Acts of rebellious solidarity/Can bring sense to this world/La
Resistance!"
> Stereolab "French Disko" 1995
>
>
series and Privateer had non-Newtonian flight models and were popular. FL
is the lineal descendant of these games, therefore it must have the same
type of flight model (if it is to be popular....and sell many units)." What
troubles me is not so much that they didn't look forward to the seamless
first person experience (as exemplified by X-T in space-sims), but that they
failed to implement so many features that were standard in the original
Privateer. Features that would have beeen game-enhancing for both casual
and hardcore gamers. I guess they just ran out of time and money.
DocScorpio
>
[snip]
>
> In a convergent, FPS/space sim hybrid, you'd land your armed freighter at
an
> abandoned space station after killing the automated defence satellites
> (newtonian space sim style, full virtual cockpit a la "Il Sturmovik").
You'd
> then stand up, turn around, open the cabin door, walk around the hull to
the
> airlock, cycle it, climb out into the station entry port, and start
killing
> the aliens infesting the station (first person shooter style a la "Unreal
2"
> or "Doom ]|["). Or, if you prefer, walk to the station bar and buy the
> locals a round of beers hoping for a mission, "Neocron" style.
>
> The 3D Mark 2003 demo "Battle of Procyon" shows what this kind of
convergent
> FPS/Space Sim might look like (minus vehicles).
>
>
> --
> >^..^<
> Bernard
> www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~langhb01
> "Acts of rebellious solidarity/Can bring sense to this world/La
Resistance!"
> Stereolab "French Disko" 1995
>
Such cross-genre games have not fared well....no matter how well done. Take
Battlezone, for instance, a truly excellent marriage of a cockpit shooter
with an RTS game which was played by huge numbers of
people.....unfortunately, most of these players got the game with their
video cards as opposed to buying it. As a consequence, BZ2, while very
pretty, was considerably dumbed down.
FLY135
> video cards as opposed to buying it. As a consequence, BZ2, while very
> pretty, was considerably dumbed down.
This is a popular misconception. In no way was BZ2 a dumbed down sequel to
BZ. I *was* a fanatical player of both versions and a top player (online)
of both in the strat mode. BZ2 got off to a bad start because it alienated
the DM community, which was the primary fan base of BZ (1). OTOH, BZ2
improved on the strat game and came into it's own with a new fan base that I
would venture to say is as large as it's predecessor (which unfortunately
wasn't that big either). IMO, BZ and BZ2 rank among the best games ever
made. Largely because the games are not only good, but because they *stand
alone* in the genre of combining strategy, 1st person shooter, and superb
dynamic vehicle modeling in a fantasy setting.
DocScorpio
early on, so I didn't really give it a chance. I REALLY liked BZ, played it
incessantly for months, dled player-made mods, etc. Great game!....and I'll
take your word that BZ2 was equally good.
Andreas Baus
> Sounds like someone in the development team was on a crusade, to me (like
> Neverwinter Nights, whose developers were on a crusade to omit 1st person
> perspective to the point of claiming it was physically impossible in the 3D
> engine--until someone hacked together a 1st person mod within a week or two
> of the game coming out).
The way I read it was that they just were afraid that people would find 1st
person view ugly because there are no ceilings (for interiors) or skys (for
exteriors) ...
Andreas Baus
> This sounds a lot like the Russian space-sim, "Parkan" (Nikita, Ltd., 1997).
Hmmm, this name rings a faint bell in the back of my head, but I don't
really remember anything about it... can you elaborate a little?
DocScorpio
Andreas Baus <an...@cip123.studcs.uni-sb.de> wrote in message
news:b4aj8o$ce3$1...@news.tu-darmstadt.de...
> DocScorpio <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> > This sounds a lot like the Russian space-sim, "Parkan" (Nikita, Ltd.,
1997).
>
> Hmmm, this name rings a faint bell in the back of my head, but I don't
> really remember anything about it... can you elaborate a little?
>
> --
> ----
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> [Insert joke
Boy! Wrong request. I usually elaborate a lot...rather than a little. ;-)
I love Parkan and actively promoted it here in the 1998-99 timeframe (I
think I convinced a couple of people to buy it who subsequently hated it).
The "Russian Wing Commander" (as it's sometime known because of its immense
popularity in Eastern Europe) is a cross-genre game that includes elements
of a cockpit space-shooter, an FPS, an adventure game, and an RTS. It was
shooting for that "seamless" approach to reality that we're beginning to see
more and more in games (X-T, GTA3, etc). Essentially, a scientific research
ship has disappeared in a distant galaxy. You, the commander of the
"Parkan," are sent to find it. You arrive in a solar system of this distant
galaxy, but your jump drive is wrecked. There are about a 1,000 star
systems that you can visit in this galaxy, but only 300-400 of them have
planets. There is a story line that you follow and when it ends the game
ends.
The galaxy comprises several star clusters and each one is inhabited by a
specific race of robots (this game has almost no organic enemies, thus none
of that "gibbing" that so upsets certain European governments). Inhabited
planets have bases which are either part of the "robot empire" which
controls each cluster, or are independent. You can land and conquer bases
(in FPS mode) and then develop them (the amount of resources each planet has
determines to what extent you can develop each base). Planetary resources
(chemicals, minerals, and organics) and robot "corpses" (kind of like "gold
pieces" in an rpg) are your primary resources. The more developed a base is
the better missiles and drones it produces for you (drones function like
robot wingmen; your ship can carry 6 or 7 drone fighters). Your ship and
most other ships in the game are called "cruisers" and they fairly large
(you can leave you cockpit position and wander around your ship in FP:
computer room, med bay, engine room, etc). The game also has freighters and
cap ships
Anything you can see from your cockpit you can land on or board (planets,
moons, other ships). However, on planets and moons you're always in an
enclosed "base." You can't wander about the surface. Ships are like little
FPS levels once you're aboard. For example, you can board a neutral or
friendly freighter, but if you start to steal cargo (missiles, etc.), you
robot crewmembers will attack and you'll become an enemy of that particular
robot empire so that their ships will henceforth attack and you you'll be
attacked if you try to land on their planets. You can affect the attitude
of different empires by how much you help their bases when they need
upgrades for them. You can sell them robot corpses, that they need, etc.
You can find upgrades for your ships on different planets, i.e., better
guns, generators, shields, and jump-drives. You find hints concerning the
location of these upgrades by accessing the computers of captured bases,
friendly robot bases you're visiting (and where you can buy supplies in
exchange for robot corpses), and ships you've boarded. You find main-plot
clues the same way. Although the universe is open-ended, if you don't
follow up on upgrade clues immediately, you're likely to find that the
upgrade has been stolen by robot pirates when you reach the planet of it
supposed location. If that's the case, the upgrade will found at a pirate
base (usually located on moons) or on an individual pirate ship which is
roaming around the system. Each solar system with planets can have more
than half a dozen planets and many more moons, so you have a bit of
searching to do. The bases tend to be fairly large too.
Although it has a story-line, the game has replayability because each time
you start a new game, an entirely different, random game universe is
generated. Resource mix is different, planets are different, and none of
the upgrades is located in the same place.
The in-space graphics are on a par with Privateer 2; the in-base/ship
graphics are on a par with GL-Quake.
All and all, I found it to be a pretty innovative and interesting game.
mr bernard langham
"Brad Martin" <br...@zakalwe.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qo5f6v422ddas4kqt...@4ax.com...
Yeah, it just hacks the 3rd person camera so you can place it in front of
your character's face pointing forwards. It's an engine-level mod so it
works with everything.
It's called CameraHackF (unless G is out now... dunno). Search for it on any
NWN fansite.
--
>^..^<
Bernard
www.cs.uwa.edu.au/~langhb01
"Acts of rebellious solidarity/Can bring sense to this world/La Resistance!"
Stereolab "French Disko" 1995
>
> br d
mr bernard langham
>
> Although it has a story-line, the game has replayability because each time
> you start a new game, an entirely different, random game universe is
> generated. Resource mix is different, planets are different, and none of
> the upgrades is located in the same place.
>
> The in-space graphics are on a par with Privateer 2; the in-base/ship
> graphics are on a par with GL-Quake.
>
> All and all, I found it to be a pretty innovative and interesting game.
>
Sound remarkably up my alley. Was it ever translated into English?
mr bernard langham
> mr bernard langham <speedw...@spammustdie.com.au> wrote:
> > Sounds like someone in the development team was on a crusade, to me
(like
> > Neverwinter Nights, whose developers were on a crusade to omit 1st
person
> > perspective to the point of claiming it was physically impossible in the
3D
> > engine--until someone hacked together a 1st person mod within a week or
two
> > of the game coming out).
>
> The way I read it was that they just were afraid that people would find
1st
> person view ugly because there are no ceilings (for interiors) or skys
(for
> exteriors) ...
True, there are none, and they do look somewhat shite when you pan the
camera too high.
But why are there none?
One of the NWN developers told me in a forum conversation (during alpha)
that the sky was left out because it would "slow the framerate too much." ;P
Ah-hem...
DocScorpio
game is available in any version any more (I haven't checked Underdogs to
see if it's there). A sequel, Parkan 2, was published by the same outfit,
but I believe it's an RTS or a TBS, rather than a space-sim.
The game only has one voiced cutscene, which is the intial plot-setup
cutscene. This remains in Russian in the English version, while all (or
nearly all; there's a screw-up at one point) of the text in the game is
translated to English. The robot aliens you meet throughout the game speak
a form of space-gibberish (not Russian, not anything) which is translated by
written texts on communications screens. An incredibly poorly-translated
(verges on hilarious) manual was also included on the English version CD.
Essentially when you ordered the English version, what you got was the
Russian version CD, the English version CD and a hardcopy manual in Russian.
Control is by joystick and mouse. In one mode you use your mouse to select
icons and map locations which appear on cockpit screens, then you can switch
to full screen and use the stick for combat. Kind of like the two modes in
Freelancer.
Andreas Baus
[exhaustive description of Parkan snipped]
Thanks, that was very informative; and it sounds like a pretty cool game.
Too bad it is not likely I'll ever get a chance to try it; I suppose an
older game from some obscure russian producer would be rather hard to
find...
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an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
Andreas Baus
> "DocScorpio" <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> [Parkan]
>> All and all, I found it to be a pretty innovative and interesting game.
> Sound remarkably up my alley.
The first thing that came to my mind when I read the description was that
it sounded quite similar to the venerable classic "Carrier Command", only
waaaay more sophisticated and set in a space setting ...
Speaking if which, I really think CC is a game that could stand being
remade with state-of-the-art technology - and of course multiplayer support
(imagine the players cooperating as the crew of the carrier, in different
positions as commander, weapons officer, pilots for the vehicles, etc...)
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[Insert joke here.] ----
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an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
jamotide
mr bernard langham
> mr bernard langham <speedw...@spammustdie.com.au> wrote:
>
> > "DocScorpio" <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >> [Parkan]
> >> All and all, I found it to be a pretty innovative and interesting game.
>
> > Sound remarkably up my alley.
>
> The first thing that came to my mind when I read the description was that
> it sounded quite similar to the venerable classic "Carrier Command", only
> waaaay more sophisticated and set in a space setting ...
> Speaking if which, I really think CC is a game that could stand being
> remade with state-of-the-art technology - and of course multiplayer
support
> (imagine the players cooperating as the crew of the carrier, in different
> positions as commander, weapons officer, pilots for the vehicles, etc...)
Indeed. Except that if online Battlefield 1942 gameplay is anything to go
by, they'd PK one another for the right to steer the ship into the nearest
sandbank. :(
mr bernard langham
"jamotide" <jamo...@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:c34aabc0.03030...@posting.google.com...
That must the be sequel, Parkan2, which Doc mentions higher up the thread...
> There was an English version of the game produced, but I don't think the
> game is available in any version any more (I haven't checked Underdogs to
> see if it's there). A sequel, Parkan 2, was published by the same outfit,
> but I believe it's an RTS or a TBS, rather than a space-sim.
Neither Parkan 1 (or 2) seem to be on Underdogs...
DocScorpio
Nah, this is the "sequel." I was wrong; it's wasn't an RTS/TBS. It's looks
to be some kind of mech-type game.
DocScorpio
RTS. Nevertheless, it's not the space-sim. That was the earlier game.
jamotide
Yes, at least it is not what you described. It some kind of
Mechwarrior, and it sucks. Oh well, its quite ok, but I don't want to
play such a game.
> Neither Parkan 1 (or 2) seem to be on Underdogs...
Too bad, it sounds like the coolest game ever!
DocScorpio
Be warned! I can be a persuasive writer. ;-) Parkan is probably not as
good as I make it sound. I personally love it, but I love games that take
me places I haven't been before. I don't really care how well a game gets
me to those new places.....just that it gets me there at all.
Andreas Baus
>> The way I read it was that they just were afraid that people would find 1st
>> person view ugly because there are no ceilings (for interiors) or skys (for
>> exteriors) ...
> True, there are none, and they do look somewhat shite when you pan the
> camera too high.
> But why are there none?
> One of the NWN developers told me in a forum conversation (during alpha)
> that the sky was left out because it would "slow the framerate too much." ;P
No, no, no, obviously there are no skies/ceilings because they are not
needed because you don't see them anyway from the third person view and
thus they'd just waste ressources :)
Pluvious
<speedw...@spammustdie.com.au> wrote:
>
>"Guy Under The Bridge" <GU...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:6fvc6vk1q8e3s00cj...@4ax.com...
>
>> If I were into game development, I would probably want to make an
>> adventure game and a real space sim -- these would be compelling, so I
>> know they would be published.
>
>I'd choose a Newtonian space sim/first person shooter hybrid.
>
>I think space sims will become compelling again once they the current trend
>towards seamless convergence of all game types around the first person
>shooter paradigm is finally realised.
>Examples of convergent games include "Battlefield 1942", "Operation
>Flashpoint", and "WWII Online", which are first person shooters with
>enormous outdoor engines featuring driveable vehicles including planes,
>choppers, tanks and battleships; "Halo" (fps with vehicles); and "Natural
>Selection" or "Renegade", which are FPS/RTS hybrids.
>
>In a convergent, FPS/space sim hybrid, you'd land your armed freighter at an
>abandoned space station after killing the automated defence satellites
>(newtonian space sim style, full virtual cockpit a la "Il Sturmovik"). You'd
>then stand up, turn around, open the cabin door, walk around the hull to the
>airlock, cycle it, climb out into the station entry port, and start killing
>the aliens infesting the station (first person shooter style a la "Unreal 2"
>or "Doom ]|["). Or, if you prefer, walk to the station bar and buy the
>locals a round of beers hoping for a mission, "Neocron" style.
>
>The 3D Mark 2003 demo "Battle of Procyon" shows what this kind of convergent
>FPS/Space Sim might look like (minus vehicles).
You might be playing a game like that sooner then you think. Check out Mace
Griffen Bounty Hunter for the Xbox. (Vivendi) ...
http://www.tothegame.com/game.asp?ID=517
Hundreds of years in the future, several dominant races (Human, Jaldari, and
Velleakan) occupy a host of solar systems and discover new planets on a regular
basis. Huge conglomerates vie for rich resources on every new world, resulting
in fighting, smuggling and the emergence of pirate clans. To combat this growing
trend towards war, the government sets up a group of highly elite Rangers, who
are quickly brought down by an unknown traitor. Mace Griffin, the only surviving
ranger, becomes a bounty hunter and sets out to discover the truth behind his
team’s ruin.
**Seamless transitions between first person combat and space flight action
Bespoke animation system allows motion blending and animation of detached parts
of objects (“Motion Blending”)
Consistent flight control and weapons management systems in both space and on
the ground
Modular player vehicle system with a vast array of equipment and upgrades
The ability to pilot a wide range of ships
Lifelike NPC reaction depending on their intelligence, bravery, health, etc. and
in combat will adjust their strategy based on their numbers, types of weapons,
available cover, and numerous other conditions
Diverse missions, some story driven, some incidental create a dynamic, realistic
universe for an immersive experience
Large number of player weapons from low to high tech, many unique to this game
A huge variety of walk-around environments with different physics, obstacles,
inhabitants and creatures
High level of visual effects, lighting and sound, utilizing high-spec, optimized
Xbox/PC capabilities
Multiple weighted skinned animation system
Per polygon collision systems
Skinned deformable skeletal characters, Skeletal snapping
Pixel shading for stunning graphical effects such as phong lighting, dynamic
reflections and refractive transparency (Xbox Only)
Vertex shaders will be used for skinning and dynamic level-of-detail (Xbox Only)
-=-=
Pluvious
DocScorpio
We should not forget those two underwater "space-sims": Archimedean Dynasty
and Subculture. The former was somewhat open-ended (but mostly on tracks).
Nevertheless, it had great heart! The latter was open-ended (trading,
missions, etc.) with a story-line.
Finally, there's a game of which only Brits have probably heard:
"Starlord." Published by Microprose, Ltd., in 1993. IIRC, the game is a
cross between a FP cockpiter and an RTS. You explored, conquered planets,
traded, and built a huge empire (with your relatives running individual
planets). Resources from the planets fueled your further conquests. You
could fight your battles from a fighter cockpit (which I could never get to
work worth a damn) or you could remain aboard your superbattleship and opt
to let the computer decide the outcome. The game definitely requires Mo'slo
on current pc's. I heard that the game tanked in the UK so Microprose
didn't publish it in the US.
mr bernard langham
"Pluvious" <NEXE700N...@ATTBI.COM> wrote in message
news:0bnp6vgc4k67dc5fr...@4ax.com...
> >The 3D Mark 2003 demo "Battle of Procyon" shows what this kind of
convergent
> >FPS/Space Sim might look like (minus vehicles).
>
>
> You might be playing a game like that sooner then you think. Check out
Mace
> Griffen Bounty Hunter for the Xbox. (Vivendi) ...
> http://www.tothegame.com/game.asp?ID=517
Nice. Shame about the Xbox part, though... :(
mr bernard langham
> > One of the NWN developers told me in a forum conversation (during alpha)
> > that the sky was left out because it would "slow the framerate too
much." ;P
>
> No, no, no, obviously there are no skies/ceilings because they are not
> needed because you don't see them anyway from the third person view and
> thus they'd just waste ressources :)
Ok, sorry, I should rephrase that. First person mode, he said, wasn't
implemented because rendering the sky, or rendering to the horizon, would
"slow the framerate too much." (sic)
Memnoch
<snip>
Archimedean Dynasty was great fun. Lots of scope for combat with stealth
actually being useful. Unlike that abortion of a sequel, Aqua, which I had
hopes for until I realised they had removed all of the stuff the orginal had
that made it interesting. Bitterly disappointed by that one. :-(
DocScorpio
Memnoch <mem...@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vacs6vspemvqrqh43...@4ax.com...[snip]
> >
> >We should not forget those two underwater "space-sims": Archimedean
Dynasty
> >and Subculture. The former was somewhat open-ended (but mostly on
tracks).
> >Nevertheless, it had great heart! The latter was open-ended (trading,
> >missions, etc.) with a story-line.
>
> <snip>
>
> Archimedean Dynasty was great fun. Lots of scope for combat with stealth
> actually being useful. Unlike that abortion of a sequel, Aqua, which I had
> hopes for until I realised they had removed all of the stuff the orginal
had
> that made it interesting. Bitterly disappointed by that one. :-(
Yeah, I've bitched mightily about AquaNox. I picked it up from the bargain
bin a couple of months ago....mostly for reasons of AD nostalgia. AN is a
perfect example of the "dumbing down" of pc games. It's a very, very
pretty, thinly-disguised FPS (designed for mouse control, of course) with a
completely "on-rails" campaign. I played through the entire campaign and
had a degree of fun....but mostly what I felt was disappointment. AD had
real attitude and created real atmosphere (via its music, voice acting (had
a Harrison Ford-sound alike for the main char) for the underwater world of
Aqua. AN, OTOH, was little better than a bad cartoon (with immense amounts
of completely useless and very annoying voice acting).
Memnoch
I don't know about you but when I tried Aqua for the first time, the stench of
a console port came wafting out of the box! I think the biggest give away was
the save slots. When I see things like that it just turns me off. I have found
a few exceptions to this such as GTA3 but not many.
DocScorpio
>
> I don't know about you but when I tried Aqua for the first time, the
stench of
> a console port came wafting out of the box! I think the biggest give away
was
> the save slots. When I see things like that it just turns me off. I have
found
> a few exceptions to this such as GTA3 but not many.
For the life of me, I can't remember how saves were done in AquaNox. IIRC,
you go through a door at your base to save in GTA3.
Andreas Baus
> implemented because rendering the sky, or rendering to the horizon, would
> "slow the framerate too much." (sic)
What I meant was that, simply put
a) there are no ceilings because the game is in 3rd person view (so you
would not see them anyway)
b) the game is in 3rd persion view because there are no ceilings (as that
might look ugly in 1st person view)
(this is with a big ":)" of course ;)
Falger1
>
> Examples of convergent games include "Battlefield 1942", "Operation
> Flashpoint", and "WWII Online", which are first person shooters with
> enormous outdoor engines....
Battlefield 1942 and Operation Flashpoint are not in the same league
as WWII online when it comes to the scale of their playing areas. By
comparison to the WWIIO map (which continues to grow), BF1942 and OPF
are are played on a postage stamp.
Falger1
Phoenix_Dfire
> mr bernard langham <speedw...@spammustdie.com.au> wrote:
>
> > "DocScorpio" <DocSc...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> >> [Parkan]
> >> All and all, I found it to be a pretty innovative and interesting game.
>
> > Sound remarkably up my alley.
>
> The first thing that came to my mind when I read the description was that
> it sounded quite similar to the venerable classic "Carrier Command", only
> waaaay more sophisticated and set in a space setting ...
> Speaking if which, I really think CC is a game that could stand being
> remade with state-of-the-art technology - and of course multiplayer support
> (imagine the players cooperating as the crew of the carrier, in different
> positions as commander, weapons officer, pilots for the vehicles, etc...)
Rage Came Close to that with Hostile Waters. Fantastic Single Player
Game. Oh for a multiplayer version of that.