icht
Mougli
Rita Stanley
"Mougli" <ly...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:3f3f43da$0$27038$626a...@news.free.fr...
> finaly what about the experience of icht in italy ?
>
From http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018994.html
lymeX3
Flash Member
Posts: 24
From: byron, MI
Registered: Dec 2002
posted 17 August 2003 20:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am writing my experience in Italy doing ICHT to help anyone that is
considering this treatment to help them make their decision. I want this
post to be honest and correct and therefore I will only write what I and my
wife saw with our own eyes and heard first hand and not second hand as I
know that repeating what one person hears and their interpretation could be
totally incorrect. I am not writing this in an attempt to keep anyone from
receiving this treatment, but only to let you know what to expect and the
possible outcomes. I want to give a little of my back ground as I feel it is
important that you should investigate all avenues and use ICHT as your last
Ace and if you have other issues they should be resolved before you do ICHT.
My symptoms include irritable bowel, eye floaters, heart issues, memory
issues, neurological involvement, headaches and many other symptoms too. If
you do not address metals, co-infections or other health issues the
treatment may not be very effective or work at all. My wife and I have been
battling Lyme with antibiotics for 3.5 years. We are in our mid thirties and
still hold the promise that we may one day be free of this disease and have
children. I had a major heavy metal problem that I discovered through the
help of one individual on this site and my sister who is a nurse
practitioner two years ago too. I saw a doctor in Seattle in Oct. 2001 and
he got me started on that detox and I have continued with many agents to
detox the mercury in my body. I continued to get support with the help of a
local Alt. Dr. that uses an EDS machine that diagnoses problems and can be
used to determine if certain medications are compatible with your body. It
is basically a computer version of muscle testing and I have found it to be
very accurate and helpful, but as with anything I am sure the person running
the machine has a lot to do with the results. I had become oral antibiotic
intolerant in the Spring of 2001, so we went to see a Chinese herbalist in
Mexico in April of last year. I had been off of work nearly a year and after
spending a month there and doing some I/V abx once I returned was able to go
back to work after being off for a year. Things were good for a while and
once again I started to slip. I bought a rife machine from Dan T. and got
better and went off of abx for 2.5 months in Nov. & Dec. of 2002. Again I
started to slide. I was hospitalized for another condition and put on I/V
abx for a while and that boosted me up again. By March I had started to
slide again and decided on building a Doug rife. It was very effective for
2.5 months and I was off abx once again. But as always I started to have
trouble again. My wife has never been as bad as me and I think that is
because I have had Lyme many years and I infected her and she did not have
the mercury issue either. I had been following the people going to Italy
since September of 2002 and had that in the back of my mind if all else
failed. I know that the Doug machine works and is strong enough to kill the
Lyme bacteria I just could not find freq. anymore that would produce a
significant die off so that I could continue working. I used at least 15
different freq. for Lyme and Babesia of which I know I have and I still kept
getting weaker. By the beginning of June I knew I was in real trouble again
and had to do something because I could not keep up at work. We took a home
equity loan out and made plans for my wife and I to receive treatment in
Italy after discussing it with my Alt. Dr, my LLMD and Dr. B. We left MI on
Friday the 11th of July. The flight to Milan was much more taxing on my body
than I had anticipated. When we landed we both were having muscle spasms all
over our body and it was difficult to walk. We got off the plane and there
was a guy there to pick us up and take us to Villa Preziosa near the city of
Laveno near the Swiss boarder. We also met another patient that was being
picked up at the same time as well. There was to be ten total in our group
and this concerned me going in, but I was assured that would not be a
problem. We arrived at the hospital about 35 minutes later. We found the
grounds and the setting very beautiful. They drew blood as soon as we walked
in the door and showed us to our room. It was room number 20 and the biggest
and best room in the whole hospital. I will refer to Villa Preziosa as a
hospital, but it is actually a nursing home with out patient medical
services on the first floor. They can do x-rays, cat scans and minor
surgery. They have a cafeteria and you can eat there or have the food
brought up to your room. It was Saturday morning now and treatment was to
begin on Monday. I am very glad we got there 2 days before treatment because
the trip really does take a toll on you. We met the other 8 over the next 2
days and met the doctor and Lyme Coordinator Sunday night. The doctor seemed
knowledgeable and ordered lots of tests for both of us. We started treatment
Monday morning and we both took 1000 mg of I/V DNP the first day plus 500 ml
of saline, glucose and lacted ringers. It takes a lot of DNP to get you up,
but once you are up it does not take as much to keep you at a high metabolic
level. The next day we took 1200 mg and I/V Levequin was added. Around 5:00
p.m. I noticed one of the other Lyme patients next door to us was having a
tough time breathing and he was laboring very hard. The tech/nurse that
monitors your respiration was in the room with him and they had him hooked
up to a heart monitor on a defibrillator cart. I would check in on him from
time to time as he came alone. I never spoke to him when I entered the room,
but was just concerned and would see if he was improving. At 11:00 p.m. I
peaked in to check on him and he was breathing very hard and the doctor
asked the tech/nurse if he had urinated yet and he replied no. I returned to
my room and was in bed watching TV and my wife was taking a bath when I
heard the defibrillator go off. I got out of bed and opened the door taking
about 10 seconds. When I opened the door he had come out of his unconscious
state and was now yelling and screaming at the top of his lungs. I heard
things crashing in the room and the Dr. trying to calm him down. This lasted
about 30 seconds before things quieted down. My wife, who is a nurse, came
out of the bathroom to ask what was going on and I told her what I had
heard. She got dressed and was going up to the Dr. office to use the
computer when she ran into the Lyme Coordinator. She told her what was going
on and they both decided to return to the patient's room. When they got to
his room the Dr. was doing chest compressions on the patient. Then, soon
after, 2 Italian doctors entered the room and my wife and the Lyme
Coordinator heard them pronounce the time of death at 12:15 a.m. My wife
asked the doctor what had gone wrong after he came out of the room and he
said he did not know at that time. I had fallen asleep around 11:45 because
I was exhausted from the treatment. I got up to use the bathroom at 3:00
a.m. I peeked out to see if the other patient's light was on and it was not.
I was relieved and thought everything was okay, but my wife woke up and told
me the tragic news. I was totally blown away and could not believe it. The
next morning the Dr. visited us first and said he felt that the patient had
an aneurysm in the brain at the circle of Willis that had caused his death.
He also said that it was probably do to a preexisting condition that he had
and that was a major factor in his death. I wondered at the time how he
could make such a specific diagnoses of death without an autopsy and found
it very strange. He kept coming into our room and every time he came in he w
ould tell us that the family did not want an autopsy. He said it took 5
phone calls to convince the family to have an autopsy done and I found this
so hard to believe because this patient was a 28 year old doctor and his
brother was a cardiologist. The doctor also told us that he had only had
1400 mg of DNP, almost half of what the rest of us got and there were at
least two others that on the outside looked ten times worse than the patient
that had passed and they were doing fine with the treatment. We were the
only other patients that had seen the whole scenario play out. This event
really upset us deeply as it was only the second day into the treatment and
I had heard all that had gone on. His death was not as dramatic to the other
patients as they just found out that he had passed, but I will never forget
the 6 hours of agony that this patient went through and the screaming that
followed the defibrillation. Going into the treatment I knew how
experimental it was and I thought I was willing to take the ultimate chance
to get better, but after seeing death, hearing it and putting a face with it
all really made me realize that I was not ready to go that far. I knew there
was a possibility of this happening, but never in my wildest dreams thought
it would become a reality. We continued treatment on Wednesday and started
HBO and I started taking Tinidizinol that I had brought. I ramped up on that
until I was at 1000 mg by the weekend. By Saturday I was exhausted, but did
not feel as though I had a herx. The Dr. measures your herx reaction by
monitoring your CPK enzymes. It basically tells him how much bacteria is
being killed and what your infection load is. We had Saturday and Sunday off
and during those two days my heart really acted up. I had to take atenenol
to calm it down and this alarmed the doctor. I did not receive treatment on
Monday or Tuesday of the following week because I was having an
echocardiogram and other tests related to my heart. They could not find
anything wrong and I continued treatment on Wednesday, but figured I could
make up for lost time over the weekend. I hit it very hard and after I would
get my metabolic rate up to 3 or so they would give me I/V Flagyl and then
I/V Leviquin. My wife and I sweated like crazy and our beds would have to be
changed in the middle of the night sometimes. It was also very hot while we
were there and that made the treatment even tougher. I stopped treatment on
Saturday as my veins were just giving out on me and I felt like I could not
take any more. We flew home on Tuesday and my wife and I were exhausted. I
sweated at night for the first two nights back, but when that stopped that
is when I started having trouble. I became extremely emotional, my joints
ached like crazy and I was having muscle spasms all over. I figured this was
part of the detox, but things seemed to be getting worse as time went on. I
started looking at my lab results from Italy and found that my CPK never
went even 2 times above normal where as all the other patients went 5 to 10
times normal. This lead me to start thinking that I had killed most of the
Lyme with all the treatments I had done and I was still battling other
issues. I called one patient that had been to Italy 2 sessions earlier
because I knew he was also mercury toxic to see how he felt when he got home
and his symptoms were EXACTLY like mine. I had been tested many times prior
to going to Italy for mercury only find NO detectable levels using an EDS
machine and 24 urine. The treatment did unlock mercury inside of me that I
was getting out of my body as long as I was sweating, but once that stopped
I had all this immobilized mercury in me and it has nearly drove me crazy. I
am working with a local Alt. Doctor to resolve this issue and continue to us
my Doug Rife for maintaince. My wife is still a little sluggish, but will
return to work in a week. I still have a ways to go before I can attempt
that. Dr. B. was always good to us and did extra tests too that were
unrelated to our Lyme and even treated the sickest Lyme patient an extra
week because he was not happy with the results of the treatment on him. The
Lyme Coordinator was also very good and offered a lot of support during the
treatment. I was still very troubled by the one patients death after
returning home and decided to call his home to give my condolences after we
had been home for 2 weeks. I spoke with his mother and the conversation was
very therapeutic for both of us. When I asked her why they did not want an
autopsy initially she said that they insisted immediately on an autopsy.
This was not what the Dr. had told us. I then asked her about her son's
pre-existing medical condition and she said he had absolutely none. I then
asked if they had the autopsy report back and she said that it had indicated
that he had died of heart failure and that there was absolutely nothing
wrong with his brain. She had been talking to him during his time of
distress and knew he was in major trouble. She last spoke to him around
11:00 p.m. Italy time and she told him that she and his dad where going to
be on the next plane to Italy, but he told her that they would never make it
in time and he told her he loved her and spoke with his dad and told him the
same. I have not written before now for a few reasons. I have been so tired
and fatigued it has taken me a week to complete this and plus I did not want
to write it in a mercury induced emotional state. I wanted to get all the
facts and report them as accurately as possible. There are several points
that I cannot answer that surround the patient's death because I simply do
not know. The Lyme Coordinator does recommend that someone not being treated
travel with you and I know this patient's mother and especially his brother
(the cardiologist) are having a difficult time and blaming themselves for
his death because they did not accompany him. This patient was in great
distress for at least 6 hours before passing and the hospital we were in did
not have a trauma center and was not equipped to handle his condition, in my
wife's, the nurse, opinion. There was a full blown hospital 10 minutes away,
but he was never taken there. I do question the DR's decision not to move
him, but then again he is the authority on DNP and he may have seen people
in much worse condition pull out of it. I know after the patient's death he
was not taking any chances with me because of my heart acting up and it put
him on his toes for the rest of the session. The Dr. has treated around 75
to 100 ( I could be wrong on this number) Lyme patients and as to date this
is supposedly the only death, so percentage wise that is not to bad, but it
is a reality that you must be willing take when doing this treatment. I did
not get the results that I wanted, but it has moved the mercury out of deep
parts of my body so hopefully I can get rid of it. My wife may be in
remission, but it is too early to tell. Some of the other patients have had
more positive results than my wife and I and at least two others have had
results very similar to mine. I thought that I had addressed all my other
issues, but I was wrong and I have no one to blame for that except myself. I
think if person just has Lyme that the treatment may be a complete success
as there have been a few success stories. I know this post will create a lot
of chatter, but everything in this post is absolute fact because my wife and
I were there and witnessed, these events ourselves. I feel obligated to the
Lyme community to report the actual events, so that you know the truth
before spending a lot of money on a treatment. If you do decide to do ICHT I
have a few recommendations. Do not go in the summer months as it is very hot
and makes the treatment more difficult (granite Europe is having a 100 year
heat wave). There were 10 Lyme patients during our session and given the
current personnel and equipment, that was too many to provide the care
needed. Given the conditions of the July session I would say that no more
than 8 patients should be taken and they should all be on one floor. Our
group was split up onto two different floors and that added to the lack of
testing of metabolic rate and the administration of DNP. I hope this helps
some of you considering this treatment and that you learn from my mistake of
not addressing all other issues first.
IP: Logged
tykee
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 51
From: South Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 17 August 2003 21:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but can anyone make this message readable? I use an enlarged
screen and still cannot read several (hundred?) lines with no
breaks.....Thanx, Tykee
IP: Logged
Katydid
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1596
From: El Paso, Texas
Registered: May 2001
posted 17 August 2003 21:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
God bless you and your wife for what you've been through. And thank
you for having the courage to report the facts not only on this occasion but
in the past. All of us on this board benefit immensely from your honesty and
courage.
My prayers are with both of you for your complete recovery. And if you
speak again with the family of the young man who passed away, please extend
my most heart-felt condolences.
IP: Logged
Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1211
From:
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 17 August 2003 21:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to break this up to make it readable.
Ann - OH
(quote)
I am writing my experience in Italy doing ICHT to help anyone that is
considering this treatment to help them make their decision.
I want this post to be honest and correct and therefore I will only
write what I and my wife saw with our own eyes and heard first hand and not
second hand as I know that repeating what one person hears and their
interpretation could be totally incorrect.
I am not writing this in an attempt to keep anyone from receiving this
treatment, but only to let you know what to expect and the possible
outcomes.
I want to give a little of my back ground as I feel it is important
that you should investigate all avenues and use ICHT as your last Ace and if
you have other issues they should be resolved before you do ICHT.
My symptoms include irritable bowel, eye floaters, heart issues,
memory issues, neurological involvement, headaches and many other symptoms
too. If you do not address metals, co-infections or other health issues the
treatment may not be very effective or work at all.
My wife and I have been battling Lyme with antibiotics for 3.5 years.
We are in our mid thirties and still hold the promise that we may one day be
free of this disease and have children.
I had a major heavy metal problem that I discovered through the help
of one individual on this site and my sister who is a nurse practitioner two
years ago too. I saw a doctor in Seattle in Oct. 2001 and he got me started
on that detox and I have continued with many agents to detox the mercury in
my body.
I continued to get support with the help of a local Alt. Dr. that uses
an EDS machine that diagnoses problems and can be used to determine if
certain medications are compatible with your body.
It is basically a computer version of muscle testing and I have found
it to be very accurate and helpful, but as with anything I am sure the
person running the machine has a lot to do with the results.
I had become oral antibiotic intolerant in the Spring of 2001, so we
went to see a Chinese herbalist in Mexico in April of last year.
I had been off of work nearly a year and after spending a month there
and doing some I/V abx once I returned was able to go back to work after
being off for a year.
Things were good for a while and once again I started to slip. I
bought a rife machine from Dan T. and got better and went off of abx for 2.5
months in Nov. & Dec. of 2002.
Again I started to slide. I was hospitalized for another condition and
put on I/V abx for a while and that boosted me up again.
By March I had started to slide again and decided on building a Doug
rife. It was very effective for 2.5 months and I was off abx once again.But
as always I started to have trouble again.
My wife has never been as bad as me and I think that is because I have
had Lyme many years and I infected her and she did not have the mercury
issue either.
I had been following the people going to Italy since September of 2002
and had that in the back of my mind if all else failed. I know that the Doug
machine works and is strong enough to kill the Lyme bacteria I just could
not find freq. anymore that would produce a significant die off so that I
could continue working.
I used at least 15 different freq. for Lyme and Babesia of which I
know I have and I still kept getting weaker.
By the beginning of June I knew I was in real trouble again and had to
do something because I could not keep up at work.
We took a home equity loan out and made plans for my wife and I to
receive treatment in Italy after discussing it with my Alt. Dr, my LLMD and
Dr. B.
We left MI on Friday the 11th of July. The flight to Milan was much
more taxing on my body than I had anticipated. When we landed we both were
having muscle spasms all over our body and it was difficult to walk.
We got off the plane and there was a guy there to pick us up and take
us to Villa Preziosa near the city of Laveno near the Swiss boarder. We also
met another patient that was being picked up at the same time as well.
There was to be ten total in our group and this concerned me going in,
but I was assured that would not be a problem.
We arrived at the hospital about 35 minutes later. We found the
grounds and the setting very beautiful.
They drew blood as soon as we walked in the door and showed us to our
room. It was room number 20 and the biggest and best room in the whole
hospital.
I will refer to Villa Preziosa as a hospital, but it is actually a
nursing home with out patient medical services on the first floor. They can
do x-rays, cat scans and minor surgery.
They have a cafeteria and you can eat there or have the food brought
up to your room.
It was Saturday morning now and treatment was to begin on Monday. I am
very glad we got there 2 days before treatment because the trip really does
take a toll on you.
We met the other 8 over the next 2 days and met the doctor and Lyme
Coordinator Sunday night. The doctor seemed knowledgeable and ordered lots
of tests for both of us.
We started treatment Monday morning and we both took 1000 mg of I/V
DNP the first day plus 500 ml of saline, glucose and lacted ringers. It
takes a lot of DNP to get you up, but once you are up it does not take as
much to keep you at a high metabolic level.
The next day we took 1200 mg and I/V Levequin was added. Around 5:00
p.m. I noticed one of the other Lyme patients next door to us was having a
tough time breathing and he was laboring very hard.
The tech/nurse that monitors your respiration was in the room with him
and they had him hooked up to a heart monitor on a defibrillator cart. I
would check in on him from time to time as he came alone.
I never spoke to him when I entered the room, but was just concerned
and would see if he was improving. At 11:00 p.m. I peaked in to check on him
and he was breathing very hard and the doctor asked the tech/nurse if he had
urinated yet and he replied no.
I returned to my room and was in bed watching TV and my wife was
taking a bath when I heard the defibrillator go off. I got out of bed and
opened the door taking about 10 seconds.
When I opened the door he had come out of his unconscious state and
was now yelling and screaming at the top of his lungs. I heard things
crashing in the room and the Dr. trying to calm him down. This lasted about
30 seconds before things quieted down.
My wife, who is a nurse, came out of the bathroom to ask what was
going on and I told her what I had heard. She got dressed and was going up
to the Dr. office to use the computer when she ran into the Lyme
Coordinator. She told her what was going on and they both decided to return
to the patient's room.
When they got to his room the Dr. was doing chest compressions on the
patient. Then, soon after, 2 Italian doctors entered the room and my wife
and the Lyme Coordinator heard them pronounce the time of death at 12:15
a.m.
My wife asked the doctor what had gone wrong after he came out of the
room and he said he did not know at that time.
I had fallen asleep around 11:45 because I was exhausted from the
treatment. I got up to use the bathroom at 3:00 a.m. I peeked out to see if
the other patient's light was on and it was not.
I was relieved and thought everything was okay, but my wife woke up
and told me the tragic news. I was totally blown away and could not believe
it.
The next morning the Dr. visited us first and said he felt that the
patient had an aneurysm in the brain at the circle of Willis that had caused
his death. He also said that it was probably do to a preexisting condition
that he had and that was a major factor in his death.
I wondered at the time how he could make such a specific diagnoses of
death without an autopsy and found it very strange. He kept coming into our
room and every time he came in he would tell us that the family did not want
an autopsy.
He said it took 5 phone calls to convince the family to have an
autopsy done and I found this so hard to believe because this patient was a
28 year old doctor and his brother was a cardiologist.
The doctor also told us that he had only had 1400 mg of DNP, almost
half of what the rest of us got and there were at least two others that on
the outside looked ten times worse than the patient that had passed and they
were doing fine with the treatment.
We were the only other patients that had seen the whole scenario play
out. This event really upset us deeply as it was only the second day into
the treatment and I had heard all that had gone on.
His death was not as dramatic to the other patients as they just found
out that he had passed, but I will never forget the 6 hours of agony that
this patient went through and the screaming that followed the
defibrillation.
Going into the treatment I knew how experimental it was and I thought
I was willing to take the ultimate chance to get better, but after seeing
death, hearing it and putting a face with it all really made me realize that
I was not ready to go that far.
I knew there was a possibility of this happening, but never in my
wildest dreams thought it would become a reality. We continued treatment on
Wednesday and started HBO and I started taking Tinidizinol that I had
brought. I ramped up on that until I was at 1000 mg by the weekend.
By Saturday I was exhausted, but did not feel as though I had a herx.
The Dr. measures your herx reaction by monitoring your CPK enzymes. It
basically tells him how much bacteria is being killed and what your
infection load is.
We had Saturday and Sunday off and during those two days my heart
really acted up. I had to take atenenol to calm it down and this alarmed the
doctor.
I did not receive treatment on Monday or Tuesday of the following week
because I was having an echocardiogram and other tests related to my heart.
They could not find anything wrong and I continued treatment on
Wednesday, but figured I could make up for lost time over the weekend. I hit
it very hard and after I would get my metabolic rate up to 3 or so they
would give me I/V Flagyl and then I/V Leviquin.
My wife and I sweated like crazy and our beds would have to be changed
in the middle of the night sometimes. It was also very hot while we were
there and that made the treatment even tougher.
I stopped treatment on Saturday as my veins were just giving out on me
and I felt like I could not take any more.
We flew home on Tuesday and my wife and I were exhausted. I sweated at
night for the first two nights back, but when that stopped that is when I
started having trouble.
I became extremely emotional, my joints ached like crazy and I was
having muscle spasms all over. I figured this was part of the detox, but
things seemed to be getting worse as time went on.
I started looking at my lab results from Italy and found that my CPK
never went even 2 times above normal where as all the other patients went 5
to 10 times normal.
This lead me to start thinking that I had killed most of the Lyme with
all the treatments I had done and I was still battling other issues.
I called one patient that had been to Italy 2 sessions earlier because
I knew he was also mercury toxic to see how he felt when he got home and his
symptoms were EXACTLY like mine.
I had been tested many times prior to going to Italy for mercury only
find NO detectable levels using an EDS machine and 24 urine.
The treatment did unlock mercury inside of me that I was getting out
of my body as long as I was sweating, but once that stopped I had all this
immobilized mercury in me and it has nearly drove me crazy.
I am working with a local Alt. Doctor to resolve this issue and
continue to us my Doug Rife for maintaince.
My wife is still a little sluggish, but will return to work in a week.
I still have a ways to go before I can attempt that.
Dr. B. was always good to us and did extra tests too that were
unrelated to our Lyme and even treated the sickest Lyme patient an extra
week because he was not happy with the results of the treatment on him.
The Lyme Coordinator was also very good and offered a lot of support
during the treatment.
I was still very troubled by the one patients death after returning
home and decided to call his home to give my condolences after we had been
home for 2 weeks.
I spoke with his mother and the conversation was very therapeutic for
both of us. When I asked her why they did not want an autopsy initially she
said that they insisted immediately on an autopsy. This was not what the Dr.
had told us.
I then asked her about her son's pre-existing medical condition and
she said he had absolutely none.
I then asked if they had the autopsy report back and she said that it
had indicated that he had died of heart failure and that there was
absolutely nothing wrong with his brain.
She had been talking to him during his time of distress and knew he
was in major trouble. She last spoke to him around 11:00 p.m. Italy time and
she told him that she and his dad where going to be on the next plane to
Italy, but he told her that they would never make it in time and he told her
he loved her and spoke with his dad and told him the same.
I have not written before now for a few reasons. I have been so tired
and fatigued it has taken me a week to complete this and plus I did not want
to write it in a mercury induced emotional state.
I wanted to get all the facts and report them as accurately as
possible. There are several points that I cannot answer that surround the
patient's death because I simply do not know.
The Lyme Coordinator does recommend that someone not being treated
travel with you and I know this patient's mother and especially his brother
(the cardiologist) are having a difficult time and blaming themselves for
his death because they did not accompany him.
This patient was in great distress for at least 6 hours before passing
and the hospital we were in did not have a trauma center and was not
equipped to handle his condition, in my wife's, the nurse, opinion.
There was a full blown hospital 10 minutes away, but he was never
taken there.
I do question the DR's decision not to move him, but then again he is
the authority on DNP and he may have seen people in much worse condition
pull out of it.
I know after the patient's death he was not taking any chances with me
because of my heart acting up and it put him on his toes for the rest of the
session.
The Dr. has treated around 75 to 100 ( I could be wrong on this
number) Lyme patients and as to date this is supposedly the only death, so
percentage wise that is not to bad, but it is a reality that you must be
willing take when doing this treatment.
I did not get the results that I wanted, but it has moved the mercury
out of deep parts of my body so hopefully I can get rid of it.
My wife may be in remission, but it is too early to tell. Some of the
other patients have had more positive results than my wife and I and at
least two others have had results very similar to mine.
I thought that I had addressed all my other issues, but I was wrong
and I have no one to blame for that except myself.
I think if person just has Lyme that the treatment may be a complete
success as there have been a few success stories.
I know this post will create a lot of chatter, but everything in this
post is absolute fact because my wife and I were there and witnessed, these
events ourselves.
I feel obligated to the Lyme community to report the actual events, so
that you know the truth before spending a lot of money on a treatment.
If you do decide to do ICHT I have a few recommendations.
Do not go in the summer months as it is very hot and makes the
treatment more difficult (granite Europe is having a 100 year heat wave).
There were 10 Lyme patients during our session and given the current
personnel and equipment, that was too many to provide the care needed.
Given the conditions of the July session I would say that no more than
8 patients should be taken and they should all be on one floor.
Our group was split up onto two different floors and that added to the
lack of testing of metabolic rate and the administration of DNP.
I hope this helps some of you considering this treatment and that you
learn from my mistake of not addressing all other issues first. (end quote)
IP: Logged
rosesisland2000
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 3609
From: Arkansas
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 17 August 2003 21:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by me...thanks Ann...I couldn't read it either...white space
folks if you want it read!!!
[This message has been edited by rosesisland2000 (edited 17 August
2003).]
IP: Logged
ASCT
Flash Member
Posts: 18
From: CT USA
Registered: Jul 2003
posted 17 August 2003 21:26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your honest post, you are doing all of us an immense
favor. I wish you the best in your on going struggle,
IP: Logged
rosesisland2000
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 3609
From: Arkansas
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 17 August 2003 21:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for taking the time to post this about ICHT, for I know it
must have been hard on you...God Bless you and I sincerely hope you are
doing better real soon.
Rosemary
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BobTX
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 38
From: Austin, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2003
posted 17 August 2003 22:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you very much. You do an invaluable service to fellow Lyme
patients.
Good luck.
Frank Andreas de Groot
"Rita Stanley" <rlst...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:eA50b.180793$Ho3.24953@sccrnsc03...
<someone died during ICHT>
The problem with DNP is that it is an unselective mitochondrial uncoupler, and it also uncouples the mitochondria of the muscle
cells of the heart.
This can lead to a depletion of ATP, so much that the heart will not be able to beat properly (like when you have exhaused your
muscles completely, running or bicycling and you haven't eaten enough carbs during it). I posted a link to an animal study that
mentioned this problem.
Rita Stanley
>
>The next morning the Dr. visited us first and said he felt that the
>patient had an aneurysm in the brain at the circle of Willis that had
caused
>his death. He also said that it was probably do to a preexisting condition
>that he had and that was a major factor in his death
> I wondered at the time how he could make such a specific diagnoses of
>death without an autopsy and found it very strange. He kept coming into our
>room and every time he came in he would tell us that the family did not
want
>an autopsy.
> He said it took 5 phone calls to convince the family to have an
>autopsy done and I found this so hard to believe because this patient was a
>28 year old doctor and his brother was a cardiologist.
.
.
.
.
.
.
> the authority on DNP .................
Rita Stanley
> From http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018994.html
>
> There was a full blown hospital 10 minutes away, but he was never
> taken there.
>
> I do question the DR's decision not to move him, but then again he
is
> the authority on DNP .................
http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-licrim133412199aug13,0,6905173.story
Drug's Harm Brings A Longer Sentence
Email this story
Printer friendly format
Top Stories
A $6B Battering
Man Surrenders After Attempt To Hijack Air Algeria Jet
5 Years Added To Slaying Sentence
LI Fugitive Killed in Federal Raid
By Robert E. Kessler
STAFF WRITER
August 13, 2003
The results were horrendous for the two young men who took the illegal drug
DNP, or Dinitrophenol, a chemical widely touted on Internet bulletin boards
as a miracle weight-loss drug.
James Shull, a college student in Tennessee, had a 108-degree fever and,
according to his physician, Dr. Angelo Canonico, he "suffered a heart
attack. He suffered lung injury. He suffered severe liver damage. He
suffered renal failure ... and muscle damage ... a crush injury [equal to]
the terror bombing on the Marines in Lebanon, when the hotel fell on
[them]."
But Shull was fortunate, Canonico - an emergency room specialist - said
Shull survived two weeks of paralysis while in a coma and months of
rehabilitation.
Eric Perrin, of Baldwin, who also took DNP two years ago, was not as
fortunate. Perrin, 22, who had dropped out of Cornell University, died in
agony. His mother Barbara Perrin said recently, "He kept saying, 'I had no
idea it would as bad as this ... ' He started to yell. He started to scream.
He was in terrible, terrible pain."
Barbara Perrin and Canonico both testified recently at an unusual sentencing
hearing in U.S. District Court in Central Islip of Sean Zhang, who admitted
to illegally selling the victims DNP through the Internet.
Usually, a person convicted of a federal crime is sentenced within a
guideline range that gives judges limited discretion in what prison term to
impose.
It is extremely rare for a person to get a greater prison sentence than
what's called for by those guidelines. According to Justice Department
statistics such increased sentences, or "upward departures" as they are
known, occur in less than 1 percent of all federal cases.
Zhang faced a maximum of 18 to 24 months for mail fraud under the guidelines
for sending a drug for improper use through the mails.
DNP is a chemical regulated by the Food Drug Administration and not
technically considered a controlled substance regulated by the U.S. Drug
Enforcement Administration.
Penalties for DEA regulated substances such as heroin and cocaine can range
up to life in prison.
But Assistant U.S. Attorney Wayne Baker, an Eastern District prosecutor,
believed that the guideline range for the DNP sales did not fully take into
account the grievous nature of Zhang's crime.
Zhang's case was one of the exceptional instances when a greater sentence
was permissible under federal law, Baker argued at the recent court hearing,
because the standard mail fraud guideline "does not fully capture the
harmfulness and seriousness [of the offense] because it does not take into
account the death of Eric Perrin or the coma sustained by James Shull."
Furthermore, Baker said Zhang, who pleaded guilty, showed no remorse. First,
Baker said he attempted to alter his Internet postings after he was arrested
to make it appear as if he had not advocated the use of DNP. Second, Baker
said "even after [Zhang] became aware of Perrin's death and Shull's coma, he
still championed the use of DNP" on the Internet.
Zhang and his attorney Stuart Grossman of Forest Hills disagreed with the
imposition of an increased sentence saying that Zhang did not believe that
DNP would harm his customers.
The result last month was the hearing in which Canonico and Perrin
testified. Eventually, Zhang was sentenced to 5 years in prison. That was
the maximum allowed for a mail fraud committed in 2001, the year in which
Zhang sold the DNP to the two victims.
DNP is used by some body builders and weight lifters, according to testimony
at the hearing. It was sold in the United States as a weight-loss drug in
the 1930s until it was banned in 1938 under federal Food and Drug
Administration regulations because of its toxic effects on humans.
DNP does "work" as a weight loss drug because it essentially blocks the
body's normally energy generating mechanism, causing extremely high fevers
and resulting in drastic and potentially fatal cell destruction.
Adolf Hitler even had DNP experiments conducted on Jewish concentration camp
inmates, according to another government witness, Thomas Manning, the
retired head of toxicology at the Nassau County medical examiner's office.
Zhang eventually agreed not to fight an increased sentence in order to
shield his wife, Tracy, from a perjury indictment, after she falsely
testified at the hearing that the couple had not also sold steroids,
prosecutors said.
In sentencing Zhang on June 27 to the maximum 5 years in prison allowed
under the law, U.S. District Judge Arthur Spatt said "the government proved
that the defendant's conduct recklessly and knowingly led to the foreseeable
death and life-threatening injury to two of his customers. If I had the
power to do so, I would sentence to the defendant to far greater than 60
months."
Even Zhang's attorney, Stuart Grossman, said that some upward departure was
reasonable because his client did "cause a death."
Last year, Congress changed the penalties for mail fraud in response to
corporate scandals, so a mail fraud now theoretically carries a penalty of
up to 20 years in prison.
Rita Stanley
"Rita Stanley" <rlst...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:...
>
> http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-licrim133412199aug13,0,6905173.story
>
>
> Barbara Perrin and Canonico both testified recently at an unusual
sentencing
> hearing in U.S. District Court in Central Islip of Sean Zhang, who
admitted
> to illegally selling the victims DNP through the Internet.
If it is illegal to sell DNP over the internet, is it also illegal to
sollicit business (recruit patients) via the internet for someone who uses
DNP? Are those people who encourage use of the treatment, discourage
questioning of it, consult with the DNP users, also on shaky ground? Would
any doctor encourage this type of "treatment"?
The use of patients like in this instance
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/016468.html and this
http://www.lymetreatment.com./ItalyUpdate.html concerns me.
However, I see that a wise decision was made here by one person
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018872.html .
Rita
Rita Stanley
was presented. A lot is censored there about ICHT and other topics esp.
posts of a questioning nature or posts that present information that certain
people do not want to see. Argument is considered "offensive" or nasty, or
"negative" or "disruptive" rather than thought-provoking (advancement in any
thought process does not occur in a controlled, go along to get along
environment) , and so a limited picture gets presented. People can't make
decisions based on what someone considers the best for them. Did the doctor
who died actually see all sides to this picuture when he made a decision, or
was he actively recruited on the internet because the controversies were
made difficult to find?
There was concern about this post being deleted, so someone posted it again.
I think it has merit. It is from the thread
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/019086.html which may or may not be
deleted if you access it to read the entire thing::
ASCT
Flash Member
Posts: 22
From: CT USA
Registered: Jul 2003
posted 21 August 2003 16:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In respect of hopetohelp and in the memory of his young brother, here
is his original post.
My brother was the young doctor who tragically lost his life in Italy
during the UHT.
He was a very intelligent doctor, which is why my parents, my oldest
brother, and I did not question his desire for the treatment.
He had always been an active young man and when his lyme disease
caught up with him it took away a part of his life. He would have tried
anything to get better. We never thought that it would take his life.
My parents did everything they could to help him. He lived with them
for the past two years, in which he tried everything to get better. I am a
pharmacist, so I was able to get him his medications as cheap as possible.
He tried colestid, rocephin, ceftin, different oral solutions,
supplements, etc.
No matter how sick he felt he tried to keep his spirits up. He read at
my wedding 8 months ago even though he could barely stand.
I spoke with him every night, and before he left for Italy I asked him
if the treatment was safe and he said yes. I spoke with him on the Sunday
before his death and he sounded so good.
I was devasted when I received the call Tuesday evening that he had
died. I immediately drove to my parents the next day to be with them, but I
never expected the ordeal ahead.
It took over a week to get my brother back to this country so we could
have a funeral.
My dad spent every day on the phone with the doctor trying to find out
what happened. I thought it was odd that it seemed so difficult to get an
autopsy. We still haven't received the results.
My opinion, knowing his past medical history, was that he died from an
electrolyte imbalance that caused two seizures, according to the doctor.
If this is the case, then his death could have been prevented. As the
other man who was in the room next to my brother pointed out, this was not a
hospital.
There was not adequate equipment or drugs available to treat trauma.
My brother did not have any allergies to medications, not even any adverse
reactions besides the usual stomach problems associated with lyme disease.
We were very close, and he was one of the most loving people I have
ever met. Anyone who ever knew him could only say good things about him
because he was so much fun to be around.
He struggled with the disease but he shouldn't have passed away.
Anyone considering this treatment should keep in mind the people who
may be left behind.
My family and I will never recover from our loss, and we will always
think there must have been something we could have done.
But my parents did try everything for their son. He lived with them
for two years and took him to see a doctor in Phila, bought him any
medication no matter the cost, and supported him in everything he wanted to
try, including the UHT.
He had all of us convinced that he would come back better, which is
why we didn't stop him.
I would like to thank those of you for your kind words to my family,
and to the gentleman and his wife for writing about what really happened
over there.
Please remember that the clinic is not a hospital and does not have
adequate facilities or medicatios to treat trauma.
My oldest brother thinks that if he had been in the US he could have
been saved.
Also remember that the drug DNP is a pesticide with very serious side
effects. How each person's body reacts to such a poison is never
predictable.
My brother's girlfriend is setting up a website on Lyme disease
dedicated to him, which I will post when it is complete.
I am also looking into creating a scholarship fund in his name at the
college he once loved.
Please continue your prayers, as I will continue to pray for all who
suffer from this devastating disease.
Gadavies10
That is so sad. Thanks for posting.
Gayla