A Conundrum
Bob Giddings
for a government publication.
Turns out I still need 13 quarters by 65 years of age to qualify for
Medicare - I never will get anything from Social Security because
I've hardly ever paid into it. Last time was when I was 23 years old.
But I do want Medicare for medical backup because I don't know how
long I can keep my retiree's insurance. And getting old is dangerous
work.
Turns out all you have to do is make $3000 (subject to social
security taxes) in any one year and they credit you with 4 quarters.
Simple, right? Maybe a month, part time?
No.
I was reading the paper in Barnes and Noble today. Soft chair,
reasonable Muzak, decent coffee. Seemed like a place I could spend
time in. And have. So I snagged a passing 'manager' and asked about
the pay for part time work. He was easy to pick out. He was the one
carrying a clipboard. I could do that.
"Well, it's $6.55 an hour, starting... the first 3 months. But $7.00
after that." He beamed expectantly at me. He seemed about 14 years
old, but then so does my doctor.
"Shall I get you an application, Sir? There's a 30% employee discount
on merchandize. And a 401K, if you're interested in that." With a
sly measuring look at my newsprint-blackened fingers, he confided that
many part time employees spend much of their salary on books. The
money never leaves the place. I can believe it. Some of these slim
paperbacks are 14 bucks.
Tennessee Ernie used to sing about this sort of thing: "Saint Peter,
doncha call me, 'cause Ah cain't go. Ah owe mah soul to thah Company
Sto'..."
Wage Slaves to Wisdom, flipping pages instead of burgers. I have
underestimated these people. How do they maintain that pleasant mien,
that breezy efficiency, that anticipatory smile? By daydreaming about
yesterday's Delectable Dumpster Dive? There's a lot of faith and
courage wasted just showing up to work, sometimes.
To qualify for Medicare in this job I'd have to work full time for 3
months. Each year. For 3 years, and change. Geeze. That's Hard
Time. There's got to be a better way. Three years in here and I'd be
hovering gauntly over that pile of books, peering about with spectral
eyes, muttering "Mine. Miiine. My Precious...."
I've heard about identity theft. What if I tried to give it away?
You know, hire somebody to work for me. A stand-in, suitably handsome
and athletic. The Proposal would sound something like: "You keep
the money plus what I give you. All I want is the SS credit. Just
answer to Bob. Work your little fingers to the bone. Smile a lot."
Nah. There's bound to be an attempt at blackmail, later. Then I'd
surely have to knock'em down and eat their livers raw. The Law frowns
on that sort of stuff.
Hmmm. I ought to ask somebody in the Priz Biz if inmates get SS
credit. Maybe Don Lampson would know.
Okay, you guys. Any helpful suggestions about retirement jobs? What
an oxymoron. There's got to be a scam around here that beats Barnes
and Noble.
Bob,
who's simultaneously disgusted and pleased to find how quickly he's
forgotten what it's like to work for a living.
www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings
Current email at:
bobgiddings0 at yahoo dot com
Guess Who?
Inmates are not supposed to collect SS, while in prison, but several
of them do, by having direct deposit. Most of them get SSI for being
too crazy to work....
However, to get at the money, (while incarcerated) they need to
give power of attorney to someone they "trust".
Trouble is, unless it was a parent, the person they "trust"
sometimes needs the money themselves, and figures, since the
"collector" is locked up, he can't do anything about it, so they start
living it up, on the convict's money....
Nobody hates being a crime victim worse than a convict - so they go
howling to their Counselor about the problem!
They start out by asking if there's a way to change the power of
attorney, without who has it, agreeing to it....
Their Counselor is outraged, and gets all the info possible, and
says "That's awful, we'll put a stop to that ASAP!"
Then, the Counselor writes a letter to the local SS office, and they
stop payment, and send the law after whoever was "taking care of
business"!
The SS office then, sends a letter to the convict, telling him that
his SSI is terminated, and he can't get any more while in prison, or
until he pays back all he fraudulently collected, and Federal charges
may follow if he's collected "too much"......
Most of the time, when the convict realizes he's "been had", be
becomes irate, and threatens the Counselor, which results in him being
crabwalked off to "the Hole"!
That happens, about once every two months, so the Counselor usually
has a couple of burly prison guards ready to do what they do
best........
I'm sure glad I'm not a Counselor any more, because those convicts
say some terrible things, and deeply hurt the Counselor's feelings
something awful!
Don
RK
"Bob Giddings" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:kqd6201sdv7jm1tj6...@4ax.com...
> I got my Social Security analysis the other day. Interesting
reading,
> for a government publication.
>
> Turns out I still need 13 quarters by 65 years of age to qualify for
> Medicare - I never will get anything from Social Security because
> I've hardly ever paid into it. Last time was when I was 23 years
old.
> But I do want Medicare for medical backup because I don't know how
> long I can keep my retiree's insurance. And getting old is
dangerous
> work.
>
Yeah, it is really sad that you can't get benefits that you didn't pay
for.
Tough!
RK
RAM^3
self-employed Freelance Feature Writer that specializes in RV Travelogues?
You don't have to be employed by "someone else" to pay into SS, you know.
al
hi! Is workcamping a possibility for you? With your knowledge and
language skills you could lead the tours for "Old Faithful" or any of
the museums about which you write so enthusiastically.
Al
SteveB
Do laundry.
You need $3,000 a year. Do you have savings? Can you sell things? Can you
"find" $3,000 a month? If so, pay yourself, fill out the appropriate
paperwork, and get the credit. Do it all legally and on paper by just
shuffling around money you already have. Start a swap meet business. Show
up there once a month. Claim $3,000 in sales. Declare it as income. Pay
the vig to the government. Sell on Ebay.
Combine it with article writing. Anything. Get creative. If you don't
like to work, there are lots of things you can do to pick up $3k a year a
hell of a lot easier than working for $7 per hour. Of course, you won't get
the discount on books, though.
Steve
SteveB
"SteveB" <desert6...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> You need $3,000 a year. Do you have savings? Can you sell things? Can
you
> "find" $3,000 a month?
$3,000 a YEAR, that is.
Steve, fanning away the results of a brain fart.
Lone Haranguer
> I got my Social Security analysis the other day. Interesting reading,
> for a government publication.
>
> Turns out I still need 13 quarters by 65 years of age to qualify for
> Medicare - I never will get anything from Social Security because
> I've hardly ever paid into it. Last time was when I was 23 years old.
> But I do want Medicare for medical backup because I don't know how
> long I can keep my retiree's insurance. And getting old is dangerous
> work.
>
> Turns out all you have to do is make $3000 (subject to social
> security taxes) in any one year and they credit you with 4 quarters.
> Simple, right? Maybe a month, part time?
>
> No.
>
The SS taxes on $3000 is chicken feed. Approach a friendly rancher with
a lot of fence and tell him you will check his fences once a month for
chicken feed. All he has to do is list you as an employee and send in
the SS taxes on $3000.
LZ
Don Bradner
That's what I was thinking. Making $3000 per year freelance writing
doesn't sound like it would be too hard for someone with Bob's skills.
He would have to pay 15.3% of it into SS and Medicare, but half of
that is a tax deduction against the income.
--
Don Bradner
donb at arcatapet dot com
www.arcatapet.net
Lone Haranguer
>
> I'm sure glad I'm not a Counselor any more, because those convicts
> say some terrible things, and deeply hurt the Counselor's feelings
> something awful!
> Don
>
need to know more about life behind bars.
LZ
Bob Giddings
wrote:
>"RAM^3" <S31924...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Have you investigated the potential for paying in the money yourself - as a
>>self-employed Freelance Feature Writer that specializes in RV Travelogues?
>>
>>You don't have to be employed by "someone else" to pay into SS, you know.
>
>That's what I was thinking. Making $3000 per year freelance writing
>doesn't sound like it would be too hard for someone with Bob's skills.
>He would have to pay 15.3% of it into SS and Medicare, but half of
>that is a tax deduction against the income.
I think you guys are onto something.
Another person suggested by email that I should work a series of jobs
for research and background. Spread through the year, they'd probably
amount to $3000 and wouldn't seem like work. To paraphrase: "It
wouldn't seem like work to be in a book store, but it would at
Walmart."
It was late. My brain was idling. Moving right along now, though.
Bob
Bob Giddings
Testy, testy. Anyone who collects SS for more than 5 years probably
gets benefits he didn't pay for. And one spell in the hospital under
Medicare will probably wipe out all your contributions.
Of course you might luck out and die healthy.
Bob
Bob Giddings
wrote:
snip
>Do laundry.
>
>You need $3,000 a year. Do you have savings? Can you sell things? Can you
>"find" $3,000 a month? If so, pay yourself, fill out the appropriate
>paperwork, and get the credit. Do it all legally and on paper by just
>shuffling around money you already have. Start a swap meet business. Show
>up there once a month. Claim $3,000 in sales. Declare it as income. Pay
>the vig to the government. Sell on Ebay.
>
>Combine it with article writing. Anything. Get creative. If you don't
>like to work, there are lots of things you can do to pick up $3k a year a
>hell of a lot easier than working for $7 per hour. Of course, you won't get
>the discount on books, though.
>
>Steve
>
>
Sigh. But it all sounds so much like work.
It's hard to prepare for the wolf at the door when the wolf's not
there. I think I'm more grasshopper than ant of industry these days.
It's a character flaw, I know.
But you are perfectly right. Good suggestions, all.
Bob Giddings
I'll second that emotion.
Bob
Ed
Are you sure that you can draw both your FD pension and Social Security?
There may be that "offset" factor involved.
Ed
Tom Shaw
out of SS but I guess by your standards that is nothing. It is not related
to how much you put in. However it gets a lot of seniors off the hook. If
you are really interested go find out the facts. They are digusting because
they let a lot of deadbeats collect a surprisingly large share of what a
full time SS contributor for 60 or 70 years gets. Are you one of them?
TSnews:kqd6201sdv7jm1tj6...@4ax.com...
Janet Wilder
<m...@privacy.net> writes:
>That's what I was thinking. Making $3000 per year freelance writing
>doesn't sound like it would be too hard for someone with Bob's skills.
>He would have to pay 15.3% of it into SS and Medicare, but half of
>that is a tax deduction against the income.
>
In a dream world. Magazines pay pretty much next to nothing. Further, you
could have a submission out there for as long a 18 months before it is printed
and that's even when your querry has been answered and you have been *invited*
to submit a story. Once something is accepted (meaning they didn't throw it
back) you can't send the piece to anyone else. I currently have two pieces at
a magazine that the editor requested of me. They have been there since the
summer. I probably won't see them in print or get the check for a year and a
half. There is always the possibility that he will change his mind and send
them back in 18 months, too.
Unless you have some really good contacts and contracts, freelancing, is not a
way to make any money.
Why not consider self-publishing? I'd buy a copy or two and I think most of us
would if you didn't advertise them here. <g>
J
The Road Princess
Residentially Challenged
Spelling and punctuation is up to my editors. I take no responsibility
Ron Recer
>Date: 2/6/2004 3:21 PM Central Standard Time
>Well sir you are full of shit. If you can qualify you will get something
>out of SS but I guess by your standards that is nothing. It is not related
>to how much you put in.
Guess they changed the rules while I wasn't watching.
Ron
Tom J
"Ron Recer" <ro...@aol.common> wrote in message
news:20040206171713...@mb-m25.aol.com...
Gee, I must not be watching either. I get a SS check that is over 2 times what
my wife gets and 1/3 larger than the one that my house sitter gets. If the
size of the check is not based on total income over many quarters, I'd also
like to know when they changed the rules. ;-)
Tom J
wonder if they'll take some of mine & give to the house sitter?? ;-(
Jon Porter
"Janet Wilder" <pri...@aol.comupyours> wrote in message
news:20040206170438...@mb-m22.aol.com...
>
> Why not consider self-publishing? I'd buy a copy or two and I think most
of us
> would if you didn't advertise them here. <g>
Aww, he wouldn't have to do that. He could simply include another link in
his sig.
Lon VanOstran
<m...@privacy.net> writes:
>Okay, you guys. Any helpful suggestions about retirement jobs? What
>an oxymoron. There's got to be a scam around here that beats Barnes
>and Noble.
Write.
Lon
Carl A.
While I support your effort to figure out how to feed at the public trough,
I can't help but feel uncomfortable with everybody's (from extreme left to
extreme right) efforts to help you get around the intent of the law.
Your SS argument above is not valid, IMHO, because contributions weren't
voluntary for most of us. I've paid in about 5 years' worth of benefits --
but had I been allowed to invest the funds along with my personal pension
plan savings, I would be able to draw benefits for about 15 to 25 years.
You are right about Medicare -- because of high medical costs (in large part
caused by Medicare and mandated insurance programs) it's a huge $$ loss.
But why should you be entitled to make it even worse?
Seems to me that you made a choice, choosing a career and concomitant
compensation, and you've enjoyed and are enjoying a lot of benefits that are
bestowed on government employees and denied us lesser mortals. Just think
of early retirement, job security, very generous pension plans, and
outstanding medical insurance that actually allows you to make a profit on a
heart attack.
We normal civilian taxpayers had none of those bennies, but past age 65 we
may be getting something we didn't pay for. Isn't it somewhat egotistical
and unethical to try to switch sides now?
The above is "in principle" only. On a purely personal level, I hope you'll
succeed at screwing society -- after all, everybody else is doing it and
life's winners seem to be those who take out more than they pay in.
--
Carl A. in FL
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm
Janet Wilder
<cha...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Seems to me that you made a choice, choosing a career and concomitant
>compensation, and you've enjoyed and are enjoying a lot of benefits that are
>bestowed on government employees and denied us lesser mortals. Just think
>of early retirement, job security, very generous pension plans, and
>outstanding medical insurance that actually allows you to make a profit on a
>heart attack.
>
I agree with much of what you are saying, but the part about chosing a career
and having to be stuck with no medical coverage in old age, doesn't float. Bob
was a firefighter. He risked life and limb to save person and property. I
don't think anyone should be thrown out in the cold just because they chose to
help society as a career.
Bob, why don't you check with the union or benevolent association about
benefits after age 65. It is highly unlikely that you will be left without any
medical coverage when you hit 65.
Bob Giddings
wrote:
>
>"Bob Giddings" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:nbj72059afvcgc7up...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:04:25 GMT, "RK" <R...@noattbi.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Yeah, it is really sad that you can't get benefits that you didn't pay
>> >for.
>> >Tough!
>> >
>> >RK
>> >
>>
>> Testy, testy. Anyone who collects SS for more than 5 years probably
>> gets benefits he didn't pay for. And one spell in the hospital under
>> Medicare will probably wipe out all your contributions.
>>
>> Of course you might luck out and die healthy.
>>
>> Bob
>> www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings
>
>While I support your effort to figure out how to feed at the public trough,
>I can't help but feel uncomfortable with everybody's (from extreme left to
>extreme right) efforts to help you get around the intent of the law.
"intent"?? I thought the law intended just what it says.
>
>Your SS argument above is not valid, IMHO, because contributions weren't
>voluntary for most of us. I've paid in about 5 years' worth of benefits --
>but had I been allowed to invest the funds along with my personal pension
>plan savings, I would be able to draw benefits for about 15 to 25 years.
>
>You are right about Medicare -- because of high medical costs (in large part
>caused by Medicare and mandated insurance programs) it's a huge $$ loss.
>But why should you be entitled to make it even worse?
Because I intend to qualify under the law. Same as you.
>
>Seems to me that you made a choice, choosing a career and concomitant
>compensation, and you've enjoyed and are enjoying a lot of benefits that are
>bestowed on government employees and denied us lesser mortals. Just think
>of early retirement, job security, very generous pension plans, and
>outstanding medical insurance that actually allows you to make a profit on a
>heart attack.
That was due to an accident of exchange rates, that could just as
easily gone the other way. Everyone involved acted properly, doing
just what they were required to do.
>
>We normal civilian taxpayers had none of those bennies, but past age 65 we
>may be getting something we didn't pay for. Isn't it somewhat egotistical
>and unethical to try to switch sides now?
I'm not "switching". I'm just getting in line with the rest of you.
This is a public trough.
>
>The above is "in principle" only. On a purely personal level, I hope you'll
>succeed at screwing society -- after all, everybody else is doing it and
>life's winners seem to be those who take out more than they pay in.
If I qualify legally, I'm not screwing anybody. I'm obeying the law.
Lighten up. I'm not going to do anything illegal.
Bob Giddings
wrote:
Oh, I checked, Janet. I'm not going to lose it right away. But it's
year to year, and every year it gets harder. I believe in backup, if
it's available.
Bob Giddings
If I manage to qualify, my SS benefit will only amount to $14. The FD
pension is entirely separate, no "offset". Lots of firemen that held
two jobs collect social security too.
All I hope to do is meet the minimum requirement for Medicare. I'll
figure something out. There's still 7 years to go.
Bob Giddings
Hard to tell from your reply. Anyhow, assuming I qualify my benefit
will be under 20 bucks a month, based on my contributions. I worked
it out once and that's what it comes to. Unless SS has changed in the
last year, your benefit does depend on contribution. That is not the
point of the exercise.
The threats to hire a "stand-in" and other illegal shenanigans were a
joke. You know, humor? Yucks? Exaggeration? You know?? Maybe you
don't.
Qualifying for Medicare insurance is the point. Whether I'll be a
"deadbeat" for Medicare depends entirely on whether I get sick after
65, and whether I have any other choice of insurance at the time. If
I qualify, I qualify. Suck it up.
I admit I am unlikely to turn down any sort of help while gasping in a
hospital bed. Would you?
Bob
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:21:40 -0600, "Tom Shaw" <a000...@airmail.net>
wrote:
RAM^3
news:1od7201d8t5lg2sja...@4ax.com...
> >Bob Giddings <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >Okay, you guys. Any helpful suggestions about retirement jobs? What
> >an oxymoron. There's got to be a scam around here that beats Barnes
> >and Noble.
>
> tax?
Good idea!
A subscription-based "Monthly (Weekly?) Travel Letter" would also be an
option with an annual "Book of the Year" as updates in between "Volumes" of
collected writings as another.
One point upon which I'm unsure: While there would need to be a _reported_
income of ~$3K to insure the paper trail to enable the payment(s) _to_ SS
(with appropriate Income Taxes to be paid on that $3K), would there need to
be an _actual_ income?
While _underreporting_ is considered to be Income Tax Evasion is there
anything to prohibit _overreporting_?
Bob Giddings
I think it would depend on intent. It wouldn't be Tax Evasion, but it
might be Fraud to falsify documents in order to qualify for a
government benefit. But that's just my suspicion.
In any case, I don't intend to do any such thing. I bet I can figure
out a way to qualify legally. Just need to make money at some high
multiple of the minimum wage. Maybe something entrepreneurial and
fun. Stay tuned folks.
Meanwhile I've got to go do my taxes. :o(
Bob
Carl A.
> Well, I don't know exactly at what point you think I'm full of it.
> Hard to tell from your reply. Anyhow, assuming I qualify my benefit
> will be under 20 bucks a month, based on my contributions. I worked
> it out once and that's what it comes to. Unless SS has changed in the
> last year, your benefit does depend on contribution. That is not the
> point of the exercise.
Contact the Social Security Administration (they even have a web site) and
get a confirmation of what you've paid in, and what you are entitled to get.
You may be pleasantly surprised.
Neon John
>I got my Social Security analysis the other day. Interesting reading,
>for a government publication.
>
>Turns out I still need 13 quarters by 65 years of age to qualify for
>Medicare - I never will get anything from Social Security because
>I've hardly ever paid into it. Last time was when I was 23 years old.
>But I do want Medicare for medical backup because I don't know how
>long I can keep my retiree's insurance. And getting old is dangerous
>work.
Bob,
I lost my dad two weeks ago tomorrow to negligent homicide on the part of the
local hospital and a certain quack surgeon. We've just been through the
medical beltline. Maybe I can offer some insight.
My parents thought they had the best possible insurance - for-life "fee for
services" (the old kind) medical insurance from mom's old union job, Dad's
100% disability VA benefits (TriCare) and finally Medicare. They thought so
right up until dad went to the local surgeon to have a bunion removed from his
knee that was bothering him when gardening. A botched minor surgery, a
botched repair job, a botched major surgery to try to fix THAT botch, drug
resistant staph that they didn't culture for until they'd hammered him for 3
weeks with IV antibiotics that didn't work, 20 days of Vancomicyn, hammered
kidneys that finally shut down later he came out on a slab. We learned a few
things along the way.
About 15 years ago he crossed a horrible threshold. He turned 65. At that
point all his great private insurance in effect, went away. They call it
Medicare indexing. They (the private and VA insurance) will only pay for what
Medicare will pay for. My folks had been advised that they didn't need any
sort of MediGap insurance because of the quality of mom's policy so they never
bought any. When the Medicare hit its limit, out on the street. He died
about 2 days before he was to get booted.
The second thing is more frightening than the first. Once you're labeled
"old", the whole system gears up to minimally treat you until your expected
death. Life saving treatment and tests are withheld and the responsibility is
diffused among so many people that you can't find someone to nail. This
happened even with me and my brother who is a doctor working to change things.
For example, my brother tried to get this quack surgeon to re-admit dad after
the major surgery to address the infection, because the wound was still
infected. The quack refused, telling bro that it was too complicated dealing
with Medicare for someone that old. Another example. The day I rushed him to
the emergency room with a gaping, infected gangrenous wound covering his whole
knee and cellulitis from his toes to his hip, he had returned from the surgeon
earlier where they'd dressed the wound and declared it "OK". The fluid
buildup from the infection and cellulitis had him in congestive heart failure.
They got an amazing almost 3 gallons of fluid out of him over the next 24
hours. But he was "OK" earlier at the surgeon's office.
In the process we discovered what may be the most despicable, the most
contemptible creature who will burn in a special place in hell - the
"hospitalist". This is a doctor who can't hack it in either private or group
practice. So he joins one of the job-shop outfits and is rented to hospitals,
skilled care units and the like. He draws a salary. The bean counters
consider the hospitalists to be interchangeable revenue generation units so
they're swapped out at random. There is no bonding with patients. More like
an assembly line mechanic.
The goal of the hospitalist apparently was to keep Dad sedated enough that he
didn't complain or ask questions. They concealed this from all of us for
quite some time until my brother took it up with the hospital admin. They'd
refused to show us his chart and since it was on computer, I couldn't just
grab it out of someone's hand.
Accompanying this hospitalist plague is that many GPs, internists or whatever
your family doctor calls himself, are no longer maintaining hospital
privileges. I forget the reason Dad's doc of 30 years gave (I think it was
because of malpractice insurance) but the result was that he was ripped away
from his familiar doctor and subjected to the horrors of these drone quacks
they call hospitalists.
This has shaken our family to its bones. Ours is an upper middle class
family, with Dad having been a CPA and mom an executive assistant to a union
official. They saved their money and were living comfortably in retirement.
My Mom was always paranoid about medical insurance and put up with a LOT of
stuff on the job to get her years in sufficient to keep her excellent medical
insurance into retirement. Dad has his VA. We always thought that for
anything that the insurance wouldn't pay for, we'd simply do so out of pocket.
We had also assumed that my brother's active presence in the local medical
community and the professional courtesy normally given would cut through any
red tape. None of that happened.
Instead of being told "this treatment might work but insurance won't pay for
it", we were given the old line "at his age we don't think that course of
treatment is cost-justified". And that was when we could get any
recommendation at all. Most of the time when we'd ask what needed to be done
to turn around Dad's situation, all we'd get is a shrug. If we got anything
at all. We went over a week at one point trying to get some doctor, any
doctor to actually talk to us. In person at the hospital, over the phone,
anywhere.
I don't yet know what the answer is, as I'm only now starting to talk around.
I do know that this has profoundly changed my future plans. I had planned on
traveling full time after I sold the restaurants. Now I don't think so. My
first line of defense against this type of medical abuse seems to be to have a
long term relationship with a doc who has hospital privileges. And then sit
down and discuss this matter with him. Perhaps put things in writing.
One also needs to have an expert look at your insurance, especially what
happens when you turn 65. I don't yet know what sort of person this expert
would be but I'm looking into it.
The medical future for us boomers is pretty bleak, at least for those of us
not filthy rich and able to afford the private clinics and doctors. To a
great extent we've brought it on ourselves by demanding more non-emergency and
non-critical treatments at insurances' (actually ours after the insurance
company scrapes off its profit) expense. And by demanding more government
interference. The system has realigned itself not to provide good care to the
sickest but to generate a reliable revenue stream from the runny noses and
such.
John
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Farley @nonymous
>>Write a book Don. Those of us who are not familiar with the slammer
>>need to know more about life behind bars.
>>LZ
>>
>
>
> I'll second that emotion.
Here, here!
Max
"Ed" wrote:
> >Are you sure that you can draw both your FD pension and Social Security?
> >There may be that "offset" factor involved.
> >Ed
Bob Giddings wrote:
>
> If I manage to qualify, my SS benefit will only amount to $14. The FD
> pension is entirely separate, no "offset". Lots of firemen that held
> two jobs collect social security too.
There is normally an offset but if you only qualify for $14 then it wouldn't
apply.
I draw my FD pension and something a little over $700 SS before the Medicare
deduction plus about $1500 a month from my SEP-IRA. I had an insurance
inspection business I started when I retired and I used to hire firefighters
just long enough for them to qualify for Medicare. They weren't so
interested in the SS benefits but they needed the Medicare coverage.
Medical insurance for retired police and firefighters (without Medicare)
here is costing over $600. per month. My supplemental coverage is about half
that for me and my wife.
Max
"Carl A." <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Seems to me that you made a choice, choosing a career and concomitant
> compensation, and you've enjoyed and are enjoying a lot of benefits that
are
> bestowed on government employees and denied us lesser mortals. Just think
> of early retirement, job security, very generous pension plans, and
> outstanding medical insurance that actually allows you to make a profit on
a
> heart attack.
Early retirement? I wonder how eager you would be to work your ass off at a
serious fire once you reach fifty or so.
Even firefighters who have kept in good shape can only do so much. The job
wears you down.
Job security? Yeah, if you don't become disabled.
Generous pension plans? I paid 14% of my salary into the pension plan for
33 years. Compulsory.
Outstanding medical insurance? Yeah, while you're still on the job AND if
it's an on-duty injury.
I always felt like I was donating a certain amount of my time and abilities
and only getting paid for the rest.
But I loved the job and the people I worked with so I stayed.
The only regrets I had was when I encountered that rare, ungrateful,
misinformed "civilian".
> We normal civilian taxpayers had none of those bennies, but past age 65 we
> may be getting something we didn't pay for. Isn't it somewhat egotistical
> and unethical to try to switch sides now?
>
> The above is "in principle" only. On a purely personal level, I hope
you'll
> succeed at screwing society -- after all, everybody else is doing it and
> life's winners seem to be those who take out more than they pay in.
>Carl A. in FL
I could tell you about a year in combat in Korea I donated too but you'd
probably come back with some comment about
how wonderful and full of bennies the military is.
Max
Bob Giddings
wrote:
>
> "Ed" wrote:
>
>> >Are you sure that you can draw both your FD pension and Social Security?
>> >There may be that "offset" factor involved.
>> >Ed
>
>Bob Giddings wrote:
>>
>> If I manage to qualify, my SS benefit will only amount to $14. The FD
>> pension is entirely separate, no "offset". Lots of firemen that held
>> two jobs collect social security too.
>
>There is normally an offset but if you only qualify for $14 then it wouldn't
>apply.
You mean SS is offset. That may be. I was thinking of the FD
pension. I am not concerned with getting SS. Before the FD I worked
for the Katy Railroad and as a TA at the University of Texas. Both
were SS exempt at the time. The only wages for SS were when I worked
for the Postal Service (I think it was taken out) and an assortment of
odd jobs while going to school. Not much. 27 quarters.
I paid between 14% and 16% of my salary into my FD pension for 30
years. The City matched that amount. That is the basis of my
retirement. If SS was that high, you'd hear all sorts of gripes. I
thought it was the best thing about the job. I never saw it, didn't
miss it. Now I'm spending it.
I also have an IRA and a Deferred Comp Account (457). The former is
to supplement the pension if inflation outstrips the COLA. The latter
is putting my stepson through grad school.
>I draw my FD pension and something a little over $700 SS before the Medicare
>deduction plus about $1500 a month from my SEP-IRA. I had an insurance
>inspection business I started when I retired and I used to hire firefighters
>just long enough for them to qualify for Medicare. They weren't so
>interested in the SS benefits but they needed the Medicare coverage.
Exactly.
>Medical insurance for retired police and firefighters (without Medicare)
>here is costing over $600. per month. My supplemental coverage is about half
>that for me and my wife.
Wow. I'm paying $109 for medical insurance just for myself, up 12
bucks from last year. But I can't count on that good a deal a decade
from now. I intend to be minimally qualified for Medicare at 65. If
I can still get private insurance reasonably, then I may not use it.
Depends on which is the better coverage. Cross that bridge when I
come to it.
Or maybe I'll just buy some property in Canada, and qualify for a
rational health care system.
Ben Hogland
> Meanwhile I've got to go do my taxes. :o(
Now, now. Taxes are not that bad especially when you paid too much in
through-out the year (like me).. I think of it as a bonus. <g>
Ben (who has done his taxes already)..
Bob Giddings
case against the surgeon. Not that that is any comfort. Lots of
things can't be helped, but nowadays an infection is not one of them.
Over the holidays I displeased a physician at a party by opining that
all modern medicine had over witch doctors was some surgery and a
small window of opportunity through which to shove antibiotics. All
else is mere placebo. He held out for a few other current drugs, like
plavix and lipitor. But most of his defense was in the future tense.
I'm gonna be in worse shape than you. I don't have anybody
knowledgable to fight for me. My only hope is to remain too ornery to
die. Like my Uncle Barrett. And rich enough to throw money at people
when Medicare won't pay.
Did you try that? It is hard to figure out ahead of time when it's
necessary, when to bail out, move to another hospital, and start
writing checks. In my mother's case, she was crippled by a fall, and
then blinded by a stroke. Minimal intervention was as good as maximal
in her case, as far as a cure went. It took a few operations to
figure that out.
I could throw money at people for a little while, but I'm not ever
gonna be Howard Hughes. And his money didn't help him when his mind
started to go.
My first plan was to die young, but that fell through. Maybe I'll
make it to an advanced age, maybe I won't. A lot of this is luck. If
you could get a prescription for THAT, you wouldn't need any others.
Cold comfort, huh?
It might help to be sure this doctor you are going to develop a long
term relationship with is a good bit younger than you.
But something's gonna kill us someday, John. I'm not advising mere
fatalism, but if you ever want to full-time, start now. Don't wait
till you've thought of everything. You never will. Nobody's that
smart.
My plan is to frontload my remaining pleasures. By all means let us
know what you figure out.
If my tone seems flippant, consider that it is only directed at
myself. Again, I'm sorry to hear this news.
Bob
Bob Giddings
Yeah, well I've got to figure out how to deal with a $63K disbursement
from my mom's estate. I've fooled around on the IRS website, but
there's way too much information to sift through. For the first time
ever, I'm tempted to seek professional help. With taxes, I mean. :o)
Guess Who?
I disagree with your assessment of modern medicine. I think it's an
absolute wonder how much it's improved...
Drugs are better than I ever imagined 8>)
Vioxx has been a miracle for me. I've gone from being crippled, to
almost cured, and can even play the guitar again!
I've seen convicts that are 24kt "nutters", who are delusional in
every way, brought to the frontier of "normalcy", with drugs.
The docs can install new joints, hearts, synthetic eye parts, and
do neurosugery that was described in science fiction...
Medicine will never be able to cure everything, and make us all
heathy, & happy forever, but millions of people's lives have been
remarkably "improved" - and yet, people still die from the flu...
I really do believe that "witch doctors" would make lots of
"progress", if they were funded the way medical doctors are, for
"research"..
I think "modern medicine" will someday be able to build robots that
will be almost human........
Dr. D. Frankenstien
Jon Porter
"Ben Hogland" <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c021vd$1277hl$1...@ID-62937.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Now, now. Taxes are not that bad especially when you paid too much in
> through-out the year (like me).. I think of it as a bonus. <g>
I used to do the reverse of that. Back in the 80's it was possible for me to
figure my taxes so that I owed less than a couple hundred at tax time. That
money sat in my own account for the year working for me, instead of Uncle
Sam. It's my money, so why let someone else "borrow" it for a year? Changes
in the tax laws changed that for me so that I now collect a little bit.
Jon Porter
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:vuo820l09fm95rqrk...@4ax.com...
>
> I lost my dad two weeks ago tomorrow to negligent homicide on the part of
the
> local hospital and a certain quack surgeon. We've just been through the
> medical beltline. Maybe I can offer some insight.
>Scary stuff snipped<
Sorry to hear about your Dad. I do know of the insurance nightmare and can
commiserate, having been through something like that when Mom died eight
years ago. I suspect that the HMO the military retirees were under in New
Jersey at that time had something to do with the care that she received.
It's frustrating as Hell, it is. And deadly.
Carl A.
"Max" <thesam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:gf%Ub.13760$Vt2....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Early retirement? I wonder how eager you would be to work your ass off at
a
> serious fire once you reach fifty or so.
> Even firefighters who have kept in good shape can only do so much. The
job
> wears you down.
> Job security? Yeah, if you don't become disabled.
> Generous pension plans? I paid 14% of my salary into the pension plan for
> 33 years. Compulsory.
> Outstanding medical insurance? Yeah, while you're still on the job AND if
> it's an on-duty injury.
> I always felt like I was donating a certain amount of my time and
abilities
> and only getting paid for the rest.
> But I loved the job and the people I worked with so I stayed.
> The only regrets I had was when I encountered that rare, ungrateful,
> misinformed "civilian".
There is no draft for the firefighting force. You weren't forced into
becoming a firefighter. You made a choice, and you made it when you were
old enough to be able to evaluate pros and cons. Live with it and stop
whining.
As to gratitude, how "grateful" are you for the services provided by the
thousands of people that "serve" you -- from the order taker at McDonalds to
the IRS tax collector to the health care providers who keep you going?
Sure, you say "thank you" to your dentist, mail order clerk, parking lot
attendant -- but isn't your gratitude somewhat mitigated by the knowledge
that you have paid for their services?
I'm most grateful to the volunteer firemen who protected us in the little
community where I used to live, and I supported the fire department
generously. In my new location the professional firefighters through their
union are demanding ever more in staffing, time off, etc. even 'though the
department averages less than 2 calls per day -- and for that we need some
20+ firemen. We pay for the service with high property taxes -- I feel no
particular need to express gratitude when I receive services that I have
paid for dearly.
Let's be grateful for and reward performance above and beyond the call of
duty. But let's not be overwhelmed by emotions or the little girl whose
kitten was rescued. A job is offered with all its advantages and
drawbacks -- and anyone who voluntarily stays with the job for decades ought
not blame anyone but his/her own judgment for the consequences.
Carl A.
>
> Or maybe I'll just buy some property in Canada, and qualify for a
> rational health care system.
>
>
> Bob
"Rational health care system." Slip or intentional?
Max
"Carl A." <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c033i3$12h3ke$1...@ID-85585.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Max" <thesam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:gf%Ub.13760$Vt2....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > But I loved the job and the people I worked with so I stayed.
> > The only regrets I had was when I encountered that rare, ungrateful,
> > misinformed "civilian".
> There is no draft for the firefighting force. You weren't forced into
> becoming a firefighter. You made a choice, and you made it when you were
> old enough to be able to evaluate pros and cons. Live with it and stop
> whining.
>
> Let's be grateful for and reward performance above and beyond the call of
> duty. But let's not be overwhelmed by emotions or the little girl whose
> kitten was rescued. A job is offered with all its advantages and
> drawbacks -- and anyone who voluntarily stays with the job for decades
ought
> not blame anyone but his/her own judgment for the consequences.
> --
> Carl A. in FL
> Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
> http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm
I can't believe you read my whole post and didn't get the message.
"The only regrets I had was when I encountered that rare, ungrateful,
misinformed civilian".
I don't know where you live so I can't comment on what the firefighting
hazards are in that area. El Paso has a population of 600,000. A medium
sized oil refinery, several tank farms (where they store refined crude oil
products) several LPG storage yards, 2 large petroleum products pipelines, a
few high rise buildings, a large rail yard (which gave me a real share of
grief) several shopping malls, schools, a university, a community college, a
natural gas compressor station and high pressure gas line, three major
electrical power generation plants, an international airport, several
industrial complexes, many twin plant complexes, 2 interstate highways, 3
international bridges to Mexico, etc. A trifle compared to New York,
Chicago, LA, etc. but a real challenge still. By the way, we don't rescue
"kittens". It's not a cost effective operation. As a matter of fact we don't
do a lot of things they do in most small towns. We don't have the resources
to spend. One of our busier companies (that's a fire engine and crew)
averages 16 runs per 24 hours.
"The only regrets I had was when I encountered that rare, ungrateful,
misinformed Civilian".
Thanks for your appreciation. Just curious, but what did you do for a
living?
Max
Ben Hogland
"Jon Porter" <jpo...@netwalk.com> wrote in message
news:4023a...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> I used to do the reverse of that. Back in the 80's it was possible for me
to
> figure my taxes so that I owed less than a couple hundred at tax time.
That
> money sat in my own account for the year working for me, instead of Uncle
> Sam. It's my money, so why let someone else "borrow" it for a year?
Changes
> in the tax laws changed that for me so that I now collect a little bit.
Yeah, I know it could be collecting interest in an account rather than in
the fed coffers. I use to either have to pay or only maybe get a few dollars
back. Over the years I haven't changed my filing exceptions, only increased
my itemized deductions. I like to cubbyhole money in more ways than one.
Actually more way than 4.. ;) I probably should change filing exceptions
but it's either that I like the lump sum at the beginning of each year or
I'm just too lazy.. Probably a little of both..
Ben
Carl A.
>
>
> Thanks for your appreciation. Just curious, but what did you do for a
> living?
>
> Max
>
I took risks on failing businesses. Turn-around management is a tough way
to make a living, especially in your part of the country. Discovered that
in Texas when a creditor tells you that he's coming for you with a gun
unless you pay him, he can actually mean it. I've probably been shot at
more often than you have, and being self-employed means zero corporate
benefits. Whatever is in my retirement account is 100% my savings -- no
matching employer contributions. Before I became eligible for Medicare I
paid my own health insurance, no employer contribution to the monthly bill
of close to $1,000 for me and my wife. No paid vacations, no paid sick
days, no paid holidays.
But that's beside the point, as is your question. The issue is that in this
free country of ours we have choices. And when we make a choice, we have to
live with the consequences. So stop whining - whatever hardships came with
your job - they were self-inflicted.
The argument "it's a shitty job, but somebody has to do it for the benefit
of mankind" is only valid if you are making a personal sacrifice out of
moral/ethical/religious conviction. Plenty of people do that and
consequently survive on poverty-level pay. Oddly enough, you don't hear
them whine about it.
You wouldn't care to tell us how much money you made (including overtime and
employer-contributions to your bennie package) during your last year of
active duty, would you?
Guess Who?
Can you tell us about the "shooting scrapes" you had to face in your
job as as a "turn-around manager"? You make it sound sort of like the
"Wild West".
Don
Tom Shaw
TSnews:c01qil$127ehq$1...@ID-85585.news.uni-berlin.de...
Max
>
> "Max" <thesam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:wT9Vb.13834$4S4....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your appreciation. Just curious, but what did you do for a
> > living?
> >
> > Max
> >
>
> I took risks on failing businesses. Turn-around management is a tough way
> to make a living, especially in your part of the country. Discovered that
> in Texas when a creditor tells you that he's coming for you with a gun
> unless you pay him, he can actually mean it. I've probably been shot at
You missed the part where I said I had been in Korea 1950-51 didn't you.
1st Cav. It was exciting to put it mildly.
>and being self-employed means zero corporate
> benefits. Whatever is in my retirement account is 100% my savings -- no
> matching employer contributions.
What are you saying? As a self employed, you make the decisions as to what
the bennies are going to be. I was self employed for 17 years after I left
the fire department. I decided how much of my salary would go for medical
coverage since the Fire Department was no longer sharing any of the expense.
As my own boss, I decided how much I wanted to put into savings (SEP-IRA).
I decided when I would take a day off or an extended vacation. I knew if I
expected to get sick I would need some savings for that. That's what
"bosses" do. So you were in management? Seems that you would know more
about asset allocation. So much for salaries, so much for sick leave, so
much for vacations, etc.
As Firefighters we bargained collectively for how our compensation would be
allocated. So much for salaries, so much for pensions, etc. As an employee,
one need not be ignorant of good management and asset allocation is an
important part of it.
>Before I became eligible for Medicare I
> paid my own health insurance.
Me too. After I left the Fire department.
>no employer contribution to the monthly bill
> of close to $1,000 for me and my wife. No paid vacations, no paid sick
> days, no paid holidays.
> But that's beside the point, as is your question. The issue is that in
this
> free country of ours we have choices. And when we make a choice, we have
to
> live with the consequences.
So stop whining - whatever hardships came with
> your job - they were self-inflicted.
Let me reiterate:
"I had no regrets until I encountered that rare, ungrateful, UNINFORMED
Citizen".
> The argument "it's a shitty job, but somebody has to do it for the benefit
> of mankind" is only valid if you are making a personal sacrifice out of
> moral/ethical/religious conviction.
That was me. It wasn't a "shitty" job. It was challenging, interesting,
exciting and while not very financially rewarding it was emotionally
rewarding.
>Plenty of people do that and
> consequently survive on poverty-level pay.
That was me.
>Oddly enough, you don't hear
> them whine about it.
Already addressed.
> You wouldn't care to tell us how much money you made (including overtime
and
> employer-contributions to your bennie package) during your last year of
> active duty, would you?
No overtime. Deputy Chiefs weren't eligible. I did get paid for quite a
bit of unused sick time but that didn't have any effect on my pension.
Tom J
> I lost my dad two weeks ago tomorrow to negligent homicide on the part of
the
> local hospital and a certain quack surgeon. We've just been through the
> medical beltline. Maybe I can offer some insight.
John, sorry to hear about your dad. The problems you had just doesn't equal
what I went through with my dad. He was on social security and had Medicare
and a Medigap coverage. He had dementia and was treated as an out patient
until he reached the point he could no longer live alone with the
cook/housekeeper coming in 2 times a week.
We put him in a nursing home where he still had his regular doctor and was
taking the same medications. When we exhausted all his funds for nursing home
rent, I applied and got him on Medicaid. He was still in the same nursing
home, still being seen by his doctor, and still being given the same
medications. During the time he was in the nursing home (3 years starting at
age 90) he had stints put in his heart, a pacemaker put in, skin cancer
treated several times, and 6 months before he died, a feeding tube put in
because of pneumonia when he could no longer swallow without food going down
into his lungs.
I am 74, on Medicare with a Medigap supplement. My primary doctor is with the
Emory Clinic and I get the same service as any other patient. Since reaching
70 years, I've had stints 2 times, angioplasty 4 times, stress test 5 times &
a complete physical every year, with no out of pocket money from me except for
drugs. The doctor gives me some drugs & I get the rest out of Canada, so that
isn't that big a deal.
There are bad apples in every basket and it looks like you got one that was
rotten all the way through, but I truly believe my experience is more the
normal.
Tom J
bill horne
>
> I got my Social Security analysis the other day. Interesting reading,
> for a government publication.
>
> Turns out I still need 13 quarters by 65 years of age to qualify for
> Medicare - I never will get anything from Social Security because
> I've hardly ever paid into it. Last time was when I was 23 years old.
> But I do want Medicare for medical backup because I don't know how
> long I can keep my retiree's insurance. And getting old is dangerous
> work.
> Bob,
> who's simultaneously disgusted and pleased to find how quickly he's
> forgotten what it's like to work for a living.
> www.arcatapet.net/bobgiddings
You could try renouncing your citizenship, going to Mexico, and
returning as an illegal alien beanpicker crewchief. How many pickers
could live in your RV onsite?
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Lone Haranguer
> Thanks for your appreciation. Just curious, but what did you do for a
> living?
>
> Max
>
L. Walker, now residing
on the upper Nueces.
LZ
Bob Giddings
wrote:
>
>"Bob Giddings" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:s2o820hj70r8mptie...@4ax.com...
>> Well, I don't know exactly at what point you think I'm full of it.
>> Hard to tell from your reply. Anyhow, assuming I qualify my benefit
>> will be under 20 bucks a month, based on my contributions. I worked
>> it out once and that's what it comes to. Unless SS has changed in the
>> last year, your benefit does depend on contribution. That is not the
>> point of the exercise.
>
>Contact the Social Security Administration (they even have a web site) and
>get a confirmation of what you've paid in, and what you are entitled to get.
>You may be pleasantly surprised.
I did, Carl. That's how this thread got started.
Bob Giddings
wrote:
I'm in. How do you get to be a beanpicker crewchief? Is there an
election? Do you have to be bilingual?
I suppose I could cram in 7 or 8, if they were polite, and slept head
to toe.
BTW, when I was in California this summer, I met a camp host who was
living in a 23-25 foot trailer with his five motherless boys, from 4
to 16. They managed. He took them all along on roofing jobs, during
the day.
It's amazing what you can do, if you don't know you can't.
Bob
Carl A.
"Guess Who?" <DonLa...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15231-40...@storefull-3138.bay.webtv.net...
It's a long story, Don, and 20+ years ago. Played out in Houston. I was
asked to work out an oilfield services/exploration/drilling company that had
run out of money. A small business creditor called and demanded payment of
his bill (abt. $7,500 IIRC) that evening, or he would come after me and that
he had a gun. I told him that the company didn't have the money to pay him,
and he would have to stand in line with the rest of the creditors.
That evening as I left the office, six shots were fired at my rental car.
The oil patch has always been a pretty rough business. Of course I had no
idea what I was getting into when I took on the assignment.
Carl A.
>
> "Carl A." <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c03dvb$12bq6b$1...@ID-85585.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Max" <thesam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:wT9Vb.13834$4S4....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for your appreciation. Just curious, but what did you do for a
> > > living?
> > >
> > > Max
> > >
> >
> > I took risks on failing businesses. Turn-around management is a tough
way
> > to make a living, especially in your part of the country. Discovered
that
> > in Texas when a creditor tells you that he's coming for you with a gun
> > unless you pay him, he can actually mean it. I've probably been shot at
> > more often than you have.
>
> You missed the part where I said I had been in Korea 1950-51 didn't you.
> 1st Cav. It was exciting to put it mildly.
Is that supposed to fill my heart with enough patriotic gratitude to be
diverted from the issue under discussion - the sucking on the public teat
and the whining about volunatry career choices?
I intentionally excluded military service since it wasn't voluntary and
unrelated to your career as a fire fighter. But if you are going to change
the subject like that, I wonder whether you have ever experienced 18 months
of nightly carpet bombing, or as an 8 year old been given a Panzerfaust to
knock off a tank (BTW, I missed.)
--
Carl A.
>
>
>
> > You wouldn't care to tell us how much money you made (including overtime
> and
> > employer-contributions to your bennie package) during your last year of
> > active duty, would you?
>
> No overtime. Deputy Chiefs weren't eligible. I did get paid for quite a
> bit of unused sick time but that didn't have any effect on my pension.
We weren't discussing "pension" - we were discussing (a) why mature and
reasonably intelligent individuals whine about career choices they made, and
(b) how much compensation you received for "sacrificing" for the benefit of
ungrateful citizens.
My guesstimate is that your compensation, including over 45% of base for
employer-paid contributions, cost the taxpayers well in excess of $100K per
year.
I'm not saying that you didn't earn and deserve it. All I'm saying is that
you have no basis for whining and that you were probably quite well paid for
your contribution to society.
--
Carl A.
"Tom J" <tom...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:c03iae$11vpgu$1...@ID-76114.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> John, sorry to hear about your dad. The problems you had just doesn't
equal
> what I went through with my dad. He was on social security and had
Medicare
> and a Medigap coverage.
What's Medigap insurance? What does it cost, what does it cover beyond
Medicare? Is it the same as the long-term care insurance that I keep
getting flyers about?
bill horne
> >You could try renouncing your citizenship, going to Mexico, and
> >returning as an illegal alien beanpicker crewchief. How many pickers
> >could live in your RV onsite?
>
> I'm in. How do you get to be a beanpicker crewchief?
You get a vehicle and a handful of illegals without vehicles.
> Is there an
> election?
No. You just need to be the only one with a vehicle.
> Do you have to be bilingual?
It helps a lot. You negotiate with the grower in English so that the
crew doesn't know what you're gonna get for what they do. Then you have
to tell the crew lies in Spanish about how much you get, and how much
they get. But you need to bad with numbers in Spanish so that when you
cheat the crew, and one of them's smart enough to catch you, you can
credibly plead ignorance.
> I suppose I could cram in 7 or 8, if they were polite, and slept head
> to toe.
Head to toe is normal. And then, stacking is too.
There's some joke about a cop and 13 Mexicans in a car, but I can't
remember how it goes.
> It's amazing what you can do, if you don't know you can't.
It's also amazing what you can't do, if you think you can. You have no
idea how many creeks I've landed short in since I became a geezer.
And I still haven't figured out where the damned wheels are on my
Safari. I've concluded that the problem is because of the lack of a hood
sticking out there so I can tell where the corners are. I've been doing
more than my share of curb and embedded reflector checking.
> Bob
Lone Haranguer
>
> What's Medigap insurance? What does it cost, what does it cover beyond
> Medicare? Is it the same as the long-term care insurance that I keep
> getting flyers about?
>
In theory it pays the 20% of the bill that Medicare doesn't pay. In
practice you pay premiums that cost more than what the 20% of the bill
would cost. Also if Medicare says it is not covered under Medicare,
your supplement won't pay a dime.
I used to have a supplement to the old CHAMPUS which was similar to
Medicare but for retired military (until they turned 65). At one time
the catastrophic cap was $6500/yr and they had to cough up that amount
when my knee went on the fritz. I finally got my money's worth.
LZ
Tom J
>
> "Tom J" <tom...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:c03iae$11vpgu$1...@ID-76114.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >
> > John, sorry to hear about your dad. The problems you had just doesn't
> equal
> > what I went through with my dad. He was on social security and had
> Medicare
> > and a Medigap coverage.
>
> What's Medigap insurance? What does it cost, what does it cover beyond
> Medicare? Is it the same as the long-term care insurance that I keep
> getting flyers about?
Not the same as long term care. Medigap policies are private insurance
policies that are set to standards by Medicare that pays where Medicare leaves
off, depending on the Medigap plan you buy. They come in plans named Plan A,
Plan C, Plan F etc, with Plan C being the most widely sold. What Plan C does
is cover all the part of the cost of hospital & doctor bills not covered up to
the limits of what Medicare approves as the allowable charges. The secret is
to make absolutely sure your doctors, hospital, medical apparatus etc all will
settle for the Medicare approved amount. I believe that if a doctor, hospital
etc will bill Medicare direct that they have to settle for the approved
amount. Medicare only pays 80% of what they approve and there are large front
end deductibles on doctor and hospital admissions, so they can, and do, add up
in a hurry. When it comes time for you to go on Medicare (apply 6 months
before your 65th birthday) be sure to shop all the companies that sell Medigap
plans where your home address is located. The cost for the same plan can vary
by hundreds of dollars from one company to another and from one service area
to another. My Plan C is $108 per month, but when Janis turned 65 my insurer
was not taking any new customers, even mates of current policy holders, so she
pays $138 per month for the same coverage, and others in my area with AARP are
paying $198 per month.
Do a search on Medigap and Medicare to find out details.
Tom J
Carl A.
Thanks, Tom, I will research this. So far my experience with Medicare has
been great -- after paying the annual deductible of $100 and the monthly
charge for Plan B, I have had to pay out very little. The doctor sends a
charge to Medicare, they allow their predetermined amount and pay 80% of
that. I'm responsible for the remaining 20% of what Medicare has determined
to be the appropriate charge. It is my understanding that it is illegal for
the doctor to bill me for the 20% plus the amount that Medicare disallowed.
When I first became eligible for Medicare we lived in NJ and Medigap was
very expensive, plus it required my joining a HMO and giving up the MD who
had been looking after me for 25 years. Wasn't going to do that. I haven't
checked here in FL, but am not comfortable with the idea of some impersonal
insurance company telling me which MD and specialist I am permitted to use.
Tom J
>
> "Tom J" <tom...@despammed.com> wrote in message
> news:c04cmc$12p918$1...@ID-76114.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Do a search on Medigap and Medicare to find out details.
>
> Thanks, Tom, I will research this. So far my experience with Medicare has
> been great -- after paying the annual deductible of $100 and the monthly
> charge for Plan B, I have had to pay out very little. The doctor sends a
> charge to Medicare, they allow their predetermined amount and pay 80% of
> that. I'm responsible for the remaining 20% of what Medicare has determined
> to be the appropriate charge. It is my understanding that it is illegal for
> the doctor to bill me for the 20% plus the amount that Medicare disallowed.
>
> When I first became eligible for Medicare we lived in NJ and Medigap was
> very expensive, plus it required my joining a HMO and giving up the MD who
> had been looking after me for 25 years.
http://www.medicare.gov/medigap/default.asp
What you had was Medicare Select and it is limited to who you can see.
For most older people, Medigap is great to have, BUT to get the best premium
it has to start when you turn 65 and have no gaps in coverage.
Tom J
Max
"Carl A." <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I intentionally excluded military service since it wasn't voluntary and
> unrelated to your career as a fire fighter. But if you are going to
change
> the subject like that, I wonder whether you have ever experienced 18
months
> of nightly carpet bombing, or as an 8 year old been given a Panzerfaust to
> knock off a tank (BTW, I missed.)
> --
> Carl A. in FL
Ohmigod, a Bosch. I should have realized that all you wanted to do was
argue. AMF
Max
Tom J
This stae site specificaly covers what is available in FL
Tom J
Max
"Lone Haranguer" <lin...@direcway.com> wrote :
> Say Max. If you were a fireman in El Paso, you must >know my old friend
> L. Walker, now residing
> on the upper Nueces.
> LZ
Would that be Edward Lee Walker?
Good Fireman. Good Man.
You wouldn't happen to have an E-mail address for him would you?
Max
Ben Hogland
<can...@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote in message
news:8bhb2015712hgmri6...@4ax.com...
> My supplemental doesn't care who I see, and I'm covered across the
> country everywhere I go. Result is that I get to pick and choose my
> doctors and specialists no matter where I am, and my out-of-pocket
> expenses haven't totaled $100 over the past five years.
Sounds really nice.. My out of pocket last year was over 1.5K plus about 150
per month paying through my employer's medical coverage. I only can see
certain doctors who are in network and be covered 90% guaranteed. If I don't
see an in network doc, I pay 20% more plus any additional the doctor might
want to charge above my insurance's *normal and customary fee* (normally
double the customary fee in network pays). Problem also is, they like to
play musical in-network doctors too.. One day in network, next day out of
network, next day in network.
Must be nice to have regulated medical for next to nothing.. Now if only
all aged American citizens could get affordable medical coverage.
Ben
Lone Haranguer
>
> A footnote in the notices I get from my supplemental carrier
> (Physicians Mutual) says they pay for everything not paid by Medicare.
> Since I use oxygen on a daily basis - a concentrator, loose bottles,
> regulators, service, etc - I'm way ahead of them when it comes to what
> I pay vs. what I get.
>
> Canoli
Mine said it paid for everything not paid for by Medicare but it applied
ONLY to those things that Medicare covered. So when Medicare disallowed
something, the supplement was worthless.
I got all my money back when I had my first knee replaced. I think they
were happy to see me go when Tricare for Life kicked in on 10/01/01.
LZ
Bob Giddings
wrote:
>Bob Giddings wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:07:03 -0500, bill horne <red...@rye.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> >You could try renouncing your citizenship, going to Mexico, and
>> >returning as an illegal alien beanpicker crewchief. How many pickers
>> >could live in your RV onsite?
>>
>> I'm in. How do you get to be a beanpicker crewchief?
>
>You get a vehicle and a handful of illegals without vehicles.
>
>> Is there an
>> election?
>
>No. You just need to be the only one with a vehicle.
>
Great. I was afraid I'd have to know beans. Since I was a sprout.
Lone Haranguer
I do but don't expect an answer. He reads them but is so frustrated
with his PC he won't send mail anymore.
Send me an e-mail and I'll give it to you. Give him your phone number
and he'll call on his cell phone. He likes to use up his free minutes.
He's driving a big Holiday Rambler by Monaco now. Has a nice pad he put
in for friends right down by the river. I call it "Paradise on the
Nueces". 30A power, water, even a phone line. We usually spend 4-5
days there in April. He'd probably be tickled to hear from you.
LZ
Ben Hogland
<can...@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote in message
news:r6kb20daur6qhgeep...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:55:07 -0800, "Ben Hogland"
> <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sounds really nice.. My out of pocket last year was over 1.5K plus about
150
> >per month paying through my employer's medical coverage.
>
> covered by insurance: Medicare costs me around $500 annually, the
> supplemental about $1800, and that's just for me alone. My wife won't
> be Medicare eligible for a few years yet: for now, we rely on CHAMPVA.
> for her. which is coverage through the VA for dependents of 100%
> military disabled.
>
> Makes me laugh at the grocery workers on strike here because they
> refuse to kick in $5 a week for medical coverage.
I suppose it's possible but I don't know of any business that pays 100%
insurance any more.. Even the largest union employer of the area here
(Boeing) pay some medical each month. 5 years ago I didn't pay anything
through my employer for medical but now I pay 150 per month.. Times have
changed.
BTW, I knew what you meant by out of pocket.. That's what I was referring to
when I said 1.5K.. My fee's of 150 per month last year (1800 dollars) were
not included in that. I'm just glad I don't need to go to the doctor very
often otherwise my out-of-pocket would be far more..
Ben
Guess Who?
Since you, as an 8 year old, were given a "panzefaust", to defend
Hitler, and "The Fatherland" - And tried to shoot an American tank,
but missed! (Maybe?) Why did you think it would be "different"
in Iraq? Did you think Iraqis loved their homeland less that you did,
when America invaded them?
What made you start believing in the tooth fairy at 60+ years old?
PS
What ever happened to the "Oil Patch" guy who tried to shoot you?
Don (who was raised in the "Oil Patch")
Carl A.
FYI, definitely missed. Couldn't hit the side of a barn with a sling shot at
a hundred paces. Then and now.
There are huge differences and some similarities between post-war Germany
and post-war Iraq. Unlike in Iraq, there wasn't a majority of the
population being viciously persecuted by a minority -- there was no
resistance of the regime to speak of, and those who resisted would never
have told their children. As long as you kept your mouth shut, you would
probably be OK. Children were indoctrinated from Kindergarten age on -- my
parents preserved a letter in which I (at age 7) wrote about the glory of
sacrificing one's life for Fuehrer and Fatherland. If one lived in a major
city, there would be almost nightly carpet bombing -- after two years of air
terror, few houses remained undamaged and the will to resist had largely
gone by the wayside -- except for diehard party members. As the collapse
approached, desperate measures were implemented, including the arming of
children with bazookas.
Once Germany was occupied, foraging for food and shelter became priority 1.
Despite Eisenhower's order to the troops "you have come as conquerors, not
liberator," there was little if any resistance -- it was clear that Germany
had lost and that there was nothing to be gained from continuing an
underground war -- most people were extremely happy that the war was over,
and they were kept busy trying to find food and fuel. There were no jobs --
factories were being dismantled and shipped to England, France, and Russia.
For two years life was hell and survival uncertain. If it hadn't been for
CARE packages, Quaker food donations, and the black market we wouldn't have
made it.
It wasn't until 1948 that matters took a turn for the better. Currency
reform, the Marshall plan, and the establishment of a free market economy
unfettered by central economic planning and controls started what was later
called "The Economic Miracle." But it took until the mid-fifties, almost
ten years, for democracy and the rule of law to become universally accepted
and ingrained.
My personal conversion/de-nazification started the day after our town was
occupied by US forces, and a huge black soldier (BTW, the first time in my
life that I saw someone whose skin wasn't white) gave me a candy bar. I
remember refusing it, since we had been told that American planes routinely
dropped poisoned candy during their bombing runs. The soldier must have
seen both the desire and the fear in my eyes, because he unwrapped the
chocolate, ate a piece, and gave me the rest.
School classes resumed in late 1946 -- I was ten years old then. We were
taken to a traveling exhibition of concentration camp photos and
paraphernalia. An unforgotten eye opener.
Ultimately, the total "conversion" came with the opportunity in 1952 to
spend a year in the United States as an exchange student. Classes in Civics
and American History, combined with falling in love with an American girl,
convinced me that I wanted to build my life in the USA. A few years later I
raised $200 for passage on a freighter, came to New York, got my college
degree from night school and then an MBA with the help of a full
scholarship. I haven't started "believing in the tooth fairy at 60+ years
old" -- I've believed in, and pursued, my American dream for over fifty
years now.
To come full circle -- I came to the US with $85 in my pocket and am now ver
y comfortable. I didn't get government support, I earned my scholarships,
and I've never expected my adopted country to do any more for me than to
give me the freedom to go for the gold. I'm grateful for that, and
intolerant of whiners who think that society owes them more than their
contributions.
As to the oil patch shooter, no evidence. Police didn't even bother to
investigate. Avis charged me a few hundred $ for damage to the rental car.
HHamp5246
<benho...@hotmail.com> writes:
> Now if only
>all aged American citizens could get affordable medical coverage.
>
>Ben
Why aged? Wouldn't it be nice if all Americans could get affordable medical
coverage.
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/airstm2268/roadtrip2003.htm
My rig: http://members.aol.com/airstm2268/excella.htm
"You only get to choose what you read, not what I write."
Tom Marik
the freedom to go for the gold. I'm grateful for that, and intolerant of
whiners who think that society owes them more than their contributions >>
Carl,
I don't agree with many of your views, but I certainly would support that you
earned more than equality with us who got here the easy way.
Tom M
Robin Brumfield
says...
> Testy, testy. Anyone who collects SS for more than 5 years probably
> gets benefits he didn't pay for. And one spell in the hospital under
> Medicare will probably wipe out all your contributions.
>
> Of course you might luck out and die healthy.When my father retired in 1981 after about 30 years working for the GSA,
he said that he would never live long enough to withdraw all of his
contibutions. He got all of his contibutions back in 1 1/2 years. He
wasn't eligible for SS.
Robin
Robin Brumfield
says...
>
> This once-great country is not going down the tubes because of the
> defense budget, or because the French don't like us, or even because
> of a runaway judiciary and an inept Congress - it will fail because of
> moral decay, principally demonstrated by the "I want mine" crowd who
> will vote for and cheat for "government" money - oblivious to the
> consequences.
>
> Will Sill
>
Actually the "government" has no money. They have our money. It sorta
reminds me of several years ago when here in WV people were loading the
trunk of old clunkers with tires and sand bags and then disconnecting
the taillights. Slam on the brakes and instant whiplash. The law here
at the time basically said that you hit someone in the rearend, you were
at fault. The juries were awarding huge judgements because it was the
"insurance companies money"...until rates started going through the
roof. Then when they started looking into it, people realized they were
awarding their money. The law got changed to rearend accidents could
have contibutory negligence and the jusy awards were greatly diminished.
I have worked for state government for almost 24 years and it still
gauls me when I see waste in government and the refrain is, it is
"Federal money"...no it is taxpayers money that is being wasted. Plain
and simple.
Robin
Carl A.
"Tom Marik" <tmari...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040208101819...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Thank you, Tom. Much appreciated.
Ben Hogland
"HHamp5246" <hham...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040208094235...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> In article <c04ivg$12h2i9$1...@ID-62937.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Ben Hogland"
> <benho...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Now if only
> >all aged American citizens could get affordable medical coverage.
> >
> >Ben
>
> Why aged? Wouldn't it be nice if all Americans could get affordable
medical
> coverage.
I meant any age of American citizen. Yes, it would be nice off all Americans
could get affordable medical coverage, not just the aged.
Ben
Carl
fighting chigkens.
Lone Haranguer
>
> Why aged? Wouldn't it be nice if all Americans could get affordable medical
> coverage.
>
LZ
Ben Hogland
"Carl" <c...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:AYudneq3KM3...@sedona.net...
> The governmint should give free medical coverage to chickens. Especially
> fighting chigkens.
Are you hoping to qualify?
Ben
Lone Haranguer
>
> When my father retired in 1981 after about 30 years working for the GSA,
> he said that he would never live long enough to withdraw all of his
> contibutions. He got all of his contibutions back in 1 1/2 years. He
> wasn't eligible for SS.
>
than one to look at SS. It's a mandatory plan. I COULD have invested
the contributions in land when it was selling for $15 an acre as
recently as 1963. IF you can find some for sale, that very same land is
going for $10,000 per acre.
LZ
Carl
"Ben Hogland" <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c05qli$13dekk$1...@ID-62937.news.uni-berlin.de...
rec.outdoors.rv-travel. If any travelers want to qualify for social security
and then watch chicken fights, this is absolutely the best place to get full
and correct information on those subjects and many more that have nothing to
do with the topic.
Ben Hogland
> I must say this has certainly been a valuable thread to have in
> rec.outdoors.rv-travel. If any travelers want to qualify for social
security
> and then watch chicken fights, this is absolutely the best place to get
full
> and correct information on those subjects and many more that have nothing
to
> do with the topic.
Yeah, and get to read thread after thread of non-related trivia questions
too.. <g>
Ben
Tom Shaw
TS
"Robin Brumfield" <rbrum...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a90240a1...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
bill horne
You people still read stuff you don't want to read? Don't y'all have any
self-control at all?
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Carl A.
<can...@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote in message
news:8kvc20tbm3ougqlvv...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:06:38 -0700, "Carl" <c...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >I must say this has certainly been a valuable thread to have in
> >rec.outdoors.rv-travel. If any travelers want to qualify for social
security
> >and then watch chicken fights, this is absolutely the best place to get
full
> >and correct information on those subjects and many more that have nothing
to
> >do with the topic.
> >
> >
>
> anti-tank weapons.
>
> Canoli
I trust that you and everybody else realizes that I, Carl A., am in way
connected with the Carl to whose post you were responding.
Jon Porter
<can...@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote in message
news:r6kb20daur6qhgeep...@4ax.com...
>
> Makes me laugh at the grocery workers on strike here because they
> refuse to kick in $5 a week for medical coverage.
They are probably comparing to people like me who pay only $11/month for the
policy through my employer. But then, how does their coverage compare to
mine? They could be better off in the long run.
Jon Porter
"bill horne" <red...@rye.net> wrote in message
news:40268836...@rye.net...
>> Ben Hogland wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, and get to read thread after thread of non-related trivia
questions
> > too.. <g>
> >
> > Ben
>
> You people still read stuff you don't want to read? Don't y'all have any
> self-control at all?
I didn't read this.
Jon Porter
"Carl A." <cha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c05etp$12tgge$1...@ID-85585.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> FYI, definitely missed. Couldn't hit the side of a barn with a sling shot
at
> a hundred paces. Then and now.
>snip<
I saved this one. It's definitly a bit of history worth hanging on to.
Ben Hogland
"Jon Porter" <jpo...@netwalk.com> wrote in message
news:40256b4d$1...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> I didn't read this.
Neither did I.
Ben
Max
"Jon Porter" <
> > You people still read stuff you don't want to read? Don't y'all have any
> > self-control at all?
>
> I didn't read this.
I'm not going to read it.
Max
HHamp5246
<cha...@yahoo.com> writes:
>I trust that you and everybody else realizes that I, Carl A., am in way
>connected with the Carl to whose post you were responding.
LOL... No, really? I thought maybe you got a lobotomy this afternoon.
Ron Recer
>Date: 2/8/2004 8:32 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id:
>><can...@sbcglobal.netnot> wrote in message
>>news:r6kb20daur6qhgeep...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Makes me laugh at the grocery workers on strike here because they
>>> refuse to kick in $5 a week for medical coverage.
>Actually, they don't want to pay anything, which is the way things are
>now, but the owners are preparing to meet new WalMart Superstore
>competition, who plan to open a number of stores in California this
>year. The offered contract requires about $5 weekly from single
>workers, and $11 from married. The strikers were paid about $18 per
>hour, WM pays $10 for a comparable job, so the owners are trying to
>get competitive, cost wise.
>
Suppose they will stay on strike right on through the liquidation auction
because they are sure it is just a management ploy to "get to them"?
Ron
Gil
>
> "Max" <thesam...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:wT9Vb.13834$4S4....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
no employer contribution to the monthly bill
> of close to $1,000 for me and my wife. No paid vacations, no paid sick
> days, no paid holidays.
>
> But that's beside the point, as is your question. The issue is that in
this
> free country of ours we have choices. And when we make a choice, we have
to
> live with the consequences. So stop whining -
I found myself in the same position and at the age of 32 yrs i saw the
handwriting on the wall and quit what i was doing and took a job
in a local foundry. (Hard "HOT" Dirty) work. where i put in 30 yrs
before retiring.
In addition to social security i have a decent retirement from the company
plus insurance. I hate to think where i would be now if i hadn't made the
change.
Gil
Carl A.
"Gil" <g...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:vsUWb.15915$yE5.73028@attbi_s54...
>
> I found myself in the same position and at the age of 32 yrs i saw the
> handwriting on the wall and quit what i was doing and took a job
> in a local foundry. (Hard "HOT" Dirty) work. where i put in 30 yrs
> before retiring.
> In addition to social security i have a decent retirement from the company
> plus insurance. I hate to think where i would be now if i hadn't made the
> change.
> Gil
Good for you - I do hope that your pension plan is secure. It's a crying
shame how many companies have been allowed to walk away from their pension
obligations.
Tom Shaw
noticed that (at least any one I ever saw) it is clearly stated that it
could be revised at any time at the companies convenience. I am speaking
here of salaried, non-union, obligations and apparently some of the latter
are not sacrosanct.
TSnews:c0hha8$173a7h$1...@ID-85585.news.uni-berlin.de...
Gil
"Tom Shaw" <a000...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:c0j612$7...@library1.airnews.net...
> Allowed? If you ever read the "obligation" in question you might have
> noticed that (at least any one I ever saw) it is clearly stated that it
> could be revised at any time at the companies convenience. I am speaking
> here of salaried, non-union, obligations and apparently some of the latter
> are not sacrosanct.
>
Hopefully USWA won't allow any crap like that...Gil
ww...@cwnet.com
If it has to do with the US government, there is NO integrity. Every
time Congress wants to give something to those that never earned
anything, they look for ways to take it from someone else. One of
their favorite whipping boys is the retired military. They have
reneged on the health care, Cost of living, and many more benefits.
IF you are represented by a union, you might have a better chance of
getting what was promised because the unions tend to stick together
and therefore are a large voting block. If not, then you are fair
game. They are sneaky on how they remove benefits. The medical care,
for example, was supposed to be free for life. They slowly reduced the
military treatment facilities to where they could not take care of the
active duty let alone the retired. Tri care for life is a joke. You
still have to pay for medicare and the cost of medicines. That is a
long way from the free we were promised.
On the cost of living, they make small reductions especially on how it
is figured. This affects all people drawing a pension including Social
Security. For example, they removed the cost of gasoline fro the
computation which makes the cost of living look smaller and therefore
the increases will be less. Unfortunately we still have to pay for the
increased costs.
DO NOT trust the US Government and especially Congress. Our current
and immediate past administrations are not especially truthful either.
Protect yourself and make your own retirement.
George