How much glass don't we see?
Raptor
our precious tires. But we only see what's reflecting sunlight at the
time. How many shards that we don't see are we riding through? Has
anyone ever done a study or analysis? How wide a berth does prudence
dictate a rider take?
(Personally, I ride on "tank treads," slime tubes AND kevlar liners. I
think the tread will wear out before I have to replace a tube.
[Probably just jinxed myself.] They've lasted 1200 miles so far, and as
long as I stay away from stopwatches, they're fast enough for me.)
--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
Dashi Toshii
"Raptor" <m...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3ED3A3EE...@attbi.com...
> We've all tried steering through/around a patch of broken glass to spare
> our precious tires. But we only see what's reflecting sunlight at the
> time. How many shards that we don't see are we riding through? Has
> anyone ever done a study or analysis? How wide a berth does prudence
> dictate a rider take?
>
> (Personally, I ride on "tank treads," slime tubes AND kevlar liners. I
> think the tread will wear out before I have to replace a tube.
> [Probably just jinxed myself.] They've lasted 1200 miles so far, and as
> long as I stay away from stopwatches, they're fast enough for me.)
I've ridden over 2,700 miles on my Micheli Axial Carbon/Victtoria Rubino
Kevlar combo so far.
Dashii
BillX
each) with no flats and plenty of tread left. I've raced on tires costing
$50 per and these cheapies and can't see a difference other than the more
you pay the less they last :-(
"Dashi Toshii" <Tos...@Jpn.com> wrote in message
news:fHPAa.20217$_t5....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
(Profile U w/kevlar).
But then I'm conscientious enough to avoid what I can, and brush the
tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris
Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
Peter Cole
> think the tread will wear out before I have to replace a tube.
> [Probably just jinxed myself.] They've lasted 1200 miles so far, and as
> long as I stay away from stopwatches, they're fast enough for me.)
What's the big deal with an occasional flat?
Robin Hubert
> our precious tires. But we only see what's reflecting sunlight at the
> time. How many shards that we don't see are we riding through? Has
> anyone ever done a study or analysis? How wide a berth does prudence
> dictate a rider take?
>
> (Personally, I ride on "tank treads," slime tubes AND kevlar liners. I
> think the tread will wear out before I have to replace a tube.
> [Probably just jinxed myself.] They've lasted 1200 miles so far, and as
> long as I stay away from stopwatches, they're fast enough for me.)
>
>
I ride 26mm "racing tires" and suffer infrequent flats. The trick is to
ride where the cars drive. There, your likeliness of encountering sparkles
is miniscule.
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
Robin Hubert
news:9359-3ED...@storefull-2358.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> I usually get about two flats in the 4000 mile life of my Hutchinsons
> (Profile U w/kevlar).
>
> But then I'm conscientious enough to avoid what I can, and brush the
> tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
>
Don't do that.
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
>
Fritz M
>> and brush the tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
> Don't do that.
Why not?
RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha.
4=a 0=o 3=e +=t
Ronald
> you pay the less they last :-(
I'll second that, expensive tyres are nice for racing but pick up little
pieces of stone and glass like sticky tape on training rides.
"BillX" <ibru...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bb0tt3$16$1...@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Ronald
You ride your bike on the highway?
"Robin Hubert" <cv2...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2W3Ba.19384$rO.17...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Per Elmsäter
> But then I'm conscientious enough to avoid what I can, and brush the
> tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
>
I've been trying to do that also, but I'm having problems with the rear
tire. How do you do it without falling off or getting your hand caught in
the brakes ;(
Front tire is of course easy.
--
Perre
You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
Raptor
Inconvenience, and frankly I change tires so infrequently that I'm not
entirely sure I remember all the little tricks to doing it right.(!)
I love being able to take the bike off the wall, ride it, hang it back
up, and think about maintaining it eventually. I get around to the
maintenance part at least once a season. It's a great bike (2002 Lemond
Tourmalet).
Jasper Janssen
wrote:
>"Robin Hubert" <cv2...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>> and brush the tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
>
>> Don't do that.
>
>Why not?
Because *if* there's something on there that's loose enough to brush off,
you've got 50% chance of banging it in instead of taking it out, and 50%
chance of having it pierce your gloves and making you remember when you
last got tetanus shots. Especially glass shards go through gloves like a
hot knife through oil.
Jasper
Fritz M
> I've been trying to do that also, but I'm having problems with the rear
> tire. How do you do it without falling off or getting your hand caught in
> the brakes ;(
I loop my thumb around the seatstay, then lower hand until gloved palm
contacts the tire.
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
><Chrisz...@webtv.net> wrote:
>I usually get about two flats in the 4000
>mile life of my Hutchinsons (Profile U
>w/kevlar).
>But then I'm conscientious enough to
>avoid what I can, and brush the tires with
>a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
Don't do that.
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>"
Why not?
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
You may have to do a little searching to find them, but there is a small
device known as a tire saver. Basically, it is a curved piece of wire
that rests lightly on the tire, plucking off small pieces of glass
before they can become embedded in the rubber. Ask your LBS.
It's not perfect, but it works most of the time. I have one on the rear
of my tourer. it has very long chainstays which, as you pointed out,
make it difficult to reach the rear tire to clean it whil riding.
Jay Beattie
"Ronald" <ronaldvt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ed4d9cb$0$1127$4d4e...@news.nl.uu.net...
> > The trick is to ride where the cars drive.
>
> You ride your bike on the highway?
Yes, but he always rides in the right lane and keeps it under 55mph. --
Jay Beattie.
A Muzi
> >"Robin Hubert" <cv2...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Don't do that.
> On Wed, 28 May 2003 15:37:15 +0000 (UTC), Fritz M <ne...@m4s0n3r.n3+>
> >Why not?
"Jasper Janssen" <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote in message
news:qmeadvgrmea0hcs5o...@4ax.com...
> Because *if* there's something on there that's loose enough to brush off,
> you've got 50% chance of banging it in instead of taking it out, and 50%
> chance of having it pierce your gloves and making you remember when you
> last got tetanus shots. Especially glass shards go through gloves like a
> hot knife through oil.
Really ? I have never seen a case of that. Have you done it?
--
Andrew Muzi
http://www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April 1971
Raptor
>>>>>and brush the tires with a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
>>>>
>>you've got 50% chance of banging it in instead of taking it out, and 50%
>>chance of having it pierce your gloves and making you remember when you
>>last got tetanus shots. Especially glass shards go through gloves like a
>>hot knife through oil.
>
>
> Really ? I have never seen a case of that. Have you done it?
I once saw a guy using his index fingertip to keep his front tire clean.
Couldn't decide whether he was tough or stupid.
Robin Hubert
More directly, because it has no effect on incidence of punctures, as
indicated by my God (and don't think I'm kidding) Brandt.
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
Robin Hubert
news:7481-3ED...@storefull-2353.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> >"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman
> ><Chrisz...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> >I usually get about two flats in the 4000
> >mile life of my Hutchinsons (Profile U
> >w/kevlar).
>
> >But then I'm conscientious enough to
> >avoid what I can, and brush the tires with
> >a gloved hand to catch what I couldn't.
>
> Don't do that.
> --
> Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>"
>
> Why not?
>
> May you have the wind at your back.
> And a really low gear for the hills!
> Chris
>
In addition to my last response (it has not effect), you also create a risk
to yourself. This is especially important for newbies to not learn as it
creates hazard with no good result.
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
Robin Hubert
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
"Fritz M" <ne...@m4s0n3r.n3+> wrote in message
news:Xns938961DDFFA2E...@139.187.81.1...
A Muzi
> >>>>
> >>Because *if* there's something on there that's loose enough to brush
off,
> >>you've got 50% chance of banging it in instead of taking it out, and 50%
> >>chance of having it pierce your gloves and making you remember when you
> >>last got tetanus shots. Especially glass shards go through gloves like a
> >>hot knife through oil.
> A Muzi wrote:
> > Really ? I have never seen a case of that. Have you done it?
"Raptor" <m...@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3ED57A10...@attbi.com...
> I once saw a guy using his index fingertip to keep his front tire clean.
> Couldn't decide whether he was tough or stupid.
Sorry, let me rephrase that.
I see lots of riders my age who wipe tires. (superstitious) I have never
seen a cut glove ( or even finger) from doing that.
Peter Cole
> Peter Cole wrote:
> > "Raptor" <m...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3ED3A3EE...@attbi.com...
> >
> >>(Personally, I ride on "tank treads," slime tubes AND kevlar liners.
> >
>
> Inconvenience, and frankly I change tires so infrequently that I'm not
> entirely sure I remember all the little tricks to doing it right.(!)
>
> Tourmalet).
Why handicap a great bike with "tank treads"? Especially for so infrequent a
problem? Patching a tube is only unpleasant in really bad weather, otherwise,
it can be a nice break, I've flatted in some pretty scenic spots that I might
not have noticed if I hadn't been forced to stop; I've also met some nice
people, strangers often stop to offer help when you've taken a wheel off.
g.daniels
africa, burnt tequila cactus from the yucatan, tire rubber!!-did you
know that bacteria evolved to feed on roadside tire rubber dust? from
conti slicks!! otherwise there'd be a two foot berm of ^%^*((tire
rubber roadside. glass...
get a magnet-salvage nice ones from used speakers, can also be used
for a tool wall hanger or small parts holder while repairing- and drag
the magnet over the driveway. egad!! ferrous materials! tons of it.
everywhere. GODZILLA!! this defecation of debris rounds out to a total
debris fall of about 1-2 FEET deep yearly. at least. and lets not
forget meteorites and what was blown of the Martian surface during
their late cosmic debacle.
the magnet can be used to drag the drive for the lost powerlink half.
Fritz M
> In addition to my last response (it has not effect),
Why do you believe "it has not effect"? I asked a question, you answered
it.
Were you expecting something more?
DiabloScott
> More directly, because it has no effect on incidence of punctures, as
> indicated by my God (and don't think I'm kidding) Brandt.
> --
> Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net
I'm a wiper - and yes I did learn it to protect my sew-ups back in the
day. I don't think it prevents punctures but I do think it prevents
some tread cuts and therefore can extend tire life. I do it only after
having ridden through some unavoidable road debris. A lot of the crap
is really small stuff that originally just sticks to the rubber and
doesn't cut right away. Jobst's FAQ article addressed only punctures,
not tread cuts.
Once you learn how to do it properly I don't think it's any more
dangerous than say - hooking your foot on the top of the saddle for a
good quad stretch.
--
Check out my bike blog!
http://diabloscott.blogspot.com
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I'm a wiper - and yes I did learn it to protect my sew-ups back in
> the day. I don't think it prevents punctures but I do think it
> prevents some tread cuts and therefore can extend tire life. I do it
> only after having ridden through some unavoidable road debris. A lot
> of the crap is really small stuff that originally just sticks to the
> rubber and doesn't cut right away. Jobst's FAQ article addressed
> only punctures, not tread cuts.
I f you were to review the sequence of events when suspecting you rode
through glass, you might deduce that wiping serves only to make your
fingers black (and your nose when you blow it the next time). Have
you reviewed the following:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html
> Once you learn how to do it properly I don't think it's any more
> dangerous than say - hooking your foot on the top of the saddle for
> a good quad stretch.
If you ride anything but an ancient bicycle, the seat tube is too
close to the tire to wipe it. It's sure finger breaker if you happen
to touch the tire there. Besides, today most riders find pedaling
with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous. That's how we got
rid of downtube shifters, they required pedaling dangerously.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Palo Alto CA
Raptor
You have a point, but it comes down to my goals for riding. I'm not a
weight freak, and I'm just dipping my toe back into racing. I doubt
I'll get serious about it. I guess I'd rather suffer the weight and
thereby grow stronger. If I turn out to have some new-found potential
as a successful bike racer, I'll end up investing in some quicker wheels.
Dashi Toshii
"g.daniels" <data...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41b0dda1.03052...@posting.google.com...
That sounds like a good idea but wouldn't it be better to hire and
industrial size electromagnet to pick up all metallic debris from your
driveway?
You could have it done before every ride, just think of the money you would
save on not having to buy new tires and tubes so frequently. ;->
Dashii
DiabloScott
I f you were to review the sequence of events when suspecting you rode through glass, you might
deduce that wiping serves only to make your fingers black (and your nose when you blow it the next
time). Have you reviewed the following:
[url="http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html"]http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
Yes sir, twice now today and I remember seeing it when I read the entire FAQ months before I ever started posting here. A couple points:
The only statement in the article with which I disagree is your assertion that the debris would be irrecoverably imbedded into the tire before the wiping procedure could begin. I can attest that I've successfully wiped off stuff that was sticking (lightly) to my tires, I cannot document that the crud wouldn't have fallen off by itself before doing any damage, or that my wiping prevented a tread cut but I believe it has in some cases.
I usually use the one finger mucus ablution technique (a traditional skill which most riders still practice) followed by a semi-abrasive nose wipe radially outward along my index finger (most gloves have an appurtenance specifically for this function). The tire wiping contact area is of course the palm-side web between thumb and index finger so I've NEVER had any road crud transferred to my face as a result of tire wiping.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jobst Brandt wrote:
> If you ride anything but an ancient bicycle, the seat tube is too close
> to the tire to wipe it. It's sure finger breaker if you happen to touch
> the tire there. Besides, today most riders find pedaling with only one
> hand on the bars foolishly dangerous. That's how we got rid of downtube
> shifters, they required pedaling dangerously.
A couple more points:
There's about 6 inches of tire between the seatstays and the seat tube:
tire wipers would be wise to aim for the middle (in recognition of the
danger you cited) and should pause pedaling for the duration of the
procedure.
Folks who have difficulty riding one handed will probably never attempt
this skill; folks who cut their cycling teeth in the days of downtube
friction shifters and Binda Extras currently (as a consequence of brake
lever shifting and clipless pedal technology) have supererogatory
legerdemain while riding which may be put to use elsewhere if desired
with an acceptable margin of safety.
Would you autograph my book? I think I have a first edition.
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
>Because *if* there's something on there
>that's loose enough to brush off, you've
>got 50% chance of banging it in instead
>of taking it out, and 50% chance of
>having it pierce your gloves and making
>you remember when you last got tetanus
>shots. Especially glass shards go
>through gloves like a hot knife through
>oil.
Really ? I have never seen a case of that. Have you done it?
--
Andrew Muzi
I havent either. If a light brust past it drives the speck of glass into
the tube, it was probably there already.
If it's so big that a light brush can cause it to slash throught two
layers of leather and whatever padding is between them then again, your
tire is already history.
May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris
Chris'Z Corner
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
foolishly dangerous. That's how we got rid of downtube shifters, they
required pedaling dangerously.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org"
What amazed me is how long it took the rest of the cycling world to
realize (admit?) that! LOL!
Amit
> Besides, today most riders find pedaling
> with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous.
Yup you bet. It's only you old timers that have such exotic skills.
> That's how we got
> rid of downtube shifters, they required pedaling dangerously.
>
Yes, not having to ride for four decades before mastering the subtle
art of shifting means we are soft.
Robin Hubert
> "Robin Hubert" <cv2...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > In addition to my last response (it has not effect),
>
> Why do you believe "it has not effect"? I asked a question, you answered
> it.
>
> Were you expecting something more?
>
Did you read http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html ?
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I f you were to review the sequence of events when suspecting you
> rode through glass, you might deduce that wiping serves only to make
> your fingers black (and your nose when you blow it the next
> time). Have you reviewed the following:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.15.html
> Yes sir, twice now today and I remember seeing it when I read the
> entire FAQ months before I ever started posting here. A couple
> points:
> The only statement in the article with which I disagree is your
> assertion that the debris would be irrecoverably embedded into the
> tire before the wiping procedure could begin. I can attest that
> I've successfully wiped off stuff that was sticking (lightly) to my
> tires, I cannot document that the crud wouldn't have fallen off by
> itself before doing any damage, or that my wiping prevented a tread
> cut but I believe it has in some cases.
You don't know what that debris was and whether it was sharp enough to
enter the tire, which it would have by the time you could get to it,
as I pointed out in the item you read. Noting the revolutions per
second of a wheel at average speed and the time it takes to get your
hand to the wipe makes that estimate highly likely,
> I usually use the one finger mucus ablution technique (a traditional
> skill which most riders still practice) followed by a semi-abrasive
> nose wipe radially outward along my index finger (most gloves have
> an appurtenance specifically for this function). The tire wiping
> contact area is of course the palm-side web between thumb and index
> finger so I've NEVER had any road crud transferred to my face as a
> result of tire wiping.
I recall all our tire wipers as having black nose flutes from the
classic two-finger nose blow, that one does from a bicycle... and
elsewhere in 'polite' company.
>> If you ride anything but an ancient bicycle, the seat tube is too
>> close to the tire to wipe it. It's sure finger breaker if you
>> happen to touch the tire there. Besides, today most riders find
>> pedaling with only one hand on the bars foolishly dangerous. That's
>> how we got rid of downtube shifters, they required pedaling
>> dangerously.
> A couple more points:
> There's about 6 inches of tire between the seatstays and the seat
> tube: tire wipers would be wise to aim for the middle (in
> recognition of the danger you cited) and should pause pedaling for
> the duration of the procedure.
Would be wise, but tire wiping has practically vanished since the
advent of "quick", "short coupled" and "responsive frames". Of course
all of these are dodges for bicycles that are needlessly short and
have stupidly close tire clearances that make riding on dirt roads
impractical and make a spoke failure a certain end of ride. Ain't
progress great!
> Folks who have difficulty riding one handed will probably never
> attempt this skill [anachronism]; folks who cut their cycling teeth
> in the days of downtube friction shifters and Binda Extras currently
> (as a consequence of brake lever shifting and clipless pedal
> technology) have supererogatory legerdemain while riding which may
> be put to use elsewhere if desired with an acceptable margin of
> safety.
True, but you won't convince most of those who read this newsgroup of
that.
> Would you autograph my book? I think I have a first edition.
Sure, but they're all the same except the first was a silly grey cover
that I abhor for it's lifelessness. I'm sure a Diablo Wheelmen member
who comes down this way would enable that.
> Check out my bike blog!
http://diabloscott.blogspot.com
Keep on riding. Check out rides at:
http://tinyurl.com/adls
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos.html
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> Because *if* there's something on there that's loose enough to brush
> off, you've got 50% chance of banging it in instead of taking it
> out, and 50% chance of having it pierce your gloves and making you
> remember when you last got tetanus shots. Especially glass shards go
> through gloves like a hot knife through oil.
Oh you lie! What about bare hands? That's the same bugaboo that
people fear when patching a tire. They don't want to run their thumb
around the inside of the tire casing to find the cause of their
puncture for fear of bleeding to death. Your scenario only adds to
that fear. What do YOU get out of that?
I and riding companions have been wiping tubulars in the old days and
wiping the inside of clinchers for nigh on 50 years with no such
incident. I have often volunteered to run my thumb around the inside
of fearful tire patchers on the road, unable to convince them of its
safety... mainly because people like you keep the bloody myth alive.
It is not impossible, but highly improbable, and until you get even a
small scratch in the thumb, you better do it to find the obstacle.
Joe Riel
>
> A couple more points:
>
> There's about 6 inches of tire between the seatstays and the seat tube:
> tire wipers would be wise to aim for the middle (in recognition of the
> danger you cited) and should pause pedaling for the duration of the
> procedure.
While I don't bother with tire wiping, there is a way to do it reasonably
safely. The key is to hook your thumb around the seatstay (above the
brake, of course); this keeps the hand far enough away from the seat
tube to prevent it from getting sucked in.
Joe
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> Besides, today most riders find pedaling with only one hand on the
>> bars foolishly dangerous.
> Yup you bet. It's only you old timers that have such exotic skills.
Oh, I wouldn't admit such ineptness. Maybe you started riding at a
ripe age when quickness of hand and balance was atrophied, but riders
had no trouble mastering the art of bicycle racing in all its tricks
when they were in their teens.
>> That's how we got rid of downtube shifters, they required pedaling
>> dangerously.
> Yes, not having to ride for four decades before mastering the subtle
> art of shifting means we are soft.
Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent
frames, (who, when I ask whether their bicycle rides straight ahead
no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER ride no hands."
as though I had suggested and immoral act.
I am often amused how OLD some bicyclists (and people in general)
behave, taking themselves and their bicycles so seriously. I've seen
enough of them scoff when I jump a curb or ride down stairs with my
road bike. "One doesn't do that sort of dangerous kid stuff... at
least not with MY titanium, carbon, magnesium bicycle.
Ted Bennett
> I am often amused how OLD some bicyclists (and people in general)
> behave, taking themselves and their bicycles so seriously. I've seen
> enough of them scoff when I jump a curb or ride down stairs with my
> road bike. "One doesn't do that sort of dangerous kid stuff... at
> least not with MY titanium, carbon, magnesium bicycle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
This is truly great stuff. Jobst at his curmudgeonly best.
I wonder why the older I get, the better he sounds. Jobst is 68. And
I'm fifty. Happy Birthday to me.
--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR
Jasper Janssen
>Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent
>frames, (who, when I ask whether their bicycle rides straight ahead
>no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER ride no hands."
>as though I had suggested and immoral act.
Immoral I don't know about, but it is actually illegal (here).
I also believe it's illegal to ride with only one hand. You are also
required to stick out a hand as a turn indicator.
So unless you're going only straight, it's illegal to ride a bike.
Hmmmmmm. Something seems to be wrong with this picture.
Jasper
Peter Cole
news:yzBBa.18127$JX2.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent
> frames, (who, when I ask whether their bicycle rides straight ahead
> no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER ride no hands."
> as though I had suggested and immoral act.
Here in MA, riding no-hands is actually illegal, part of a law which displays
a nearly uniform lack of understanding of cycling. I rarely see cyclists,
especially those on fancy bikes, riding no-hands, as you say, they seem to
regard it as foolishly hazardous or some form of antic. I'm no trick rider,
but not long ago (really out of boredom) I rode a local rolling 30 mile road
loop entirely no-hands. It really wasn't hard or dangerous at all.
Jay Beattie
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:y9BBa.18113$JX2.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
<snip>
> > Would you autograph my book? I think I have a first edition.
>
> Sure, but they're all the same except the first was a silly grey cover
> that I abhor for it's lifelessness. I'm sure a Diablo Wheelmen member
> who comes down this way would enable that.
Further bad news about the first editions -- they fall apart. I would
take mine back for a replacement, but I am sure it is out of warranty.
BTW, those CAD diagrams were pretty cool back in the Eniac days. -- Jay
Beattie.
Raptor
> Oh you lie! What about bare hands? That's the same bugaboo that
> people fear when patching a tire. They don't want to run their thumb
> around the inside of the tire casing to find the cause of their
> puncture for fear of bleeding to death. Your scenario only adds to
> that fear. What do YOU get out of that?
>
> I and riding companions have been wiping tubulars in the old days and
> wiping the inside of clinchers for nigh on 50 years with no such
> incident. I have often volunteered to run my thumb around the inside
> of fearful tire patchers on the road, unable to convince them of its
> safety... mainly because people like you keep the bloody myth alive.
>
> It is not impossible, but highly improbable, and until you get even a
> small scratch in the thumb, you better do it to find the obstacle.
>
> Jobst Brandt
> jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> Palo Alto CA
ISTR having punctured a thumb scanning the inside of the tire while
fixing a flat. I did not bleed to death, but any cut on a finger pad is
annoying.
Raptor
I can't imagine riding a century or any other reasonably long distance
without at least once sitting up no-hands. The law is sometimes(?)
self-contradictory, which is why we pay cops so well to use their
discretion. (Oh, we don't, do we?)
But riding 30 miles no-hands? Weirdo.
Jasper Janssen
>ISTR having punctured a thumb scanning the inside of the tire while
>fixing a flat. I did not bleed to death, but any cut on a finger pad is
>annoying.
I've had it happen once or twice. Usually with punctures resulting from
pieces of steel cable, like single strands from brake cable or from car
tires. Doesn't stop me from sweeping the tire, but it does happen. Getting
stung from the *outside* would IMHO be more likely, especially multiplied
by going at 30 kilometers per hour rather than 30 centimetres per second.
Jasper
R15757
that sort of thing. Use your shoe instead of your glove. Just unclick and put
the top or side of a shoe you don't love too much against the lower rear
portion of the front tire, then carefully swing it back and press it against
the lower front portion of the rear tire, below the chain. This method allows
you to apply more pressure and, more importantly, keep two hands on the bars.
But you could still put a body part into the spokes.
Robert Hurst
R15757
>Maybe you see it that way, and I believe it when I hear people on bent
>frames, (who, when I ask whether their bicycle rides straight ahead
>no-hands} reply, disgusted with the question, "I NEVER ride no hands."
>as though I had suggested and immoral act. >>
After working as a messenger for about 10 years I got so bored that I learned
to ride no hands for hours at a time, weaving in and out of cars and
pedestrians. The only time I ever touched the bars was in starting off after a
delivery, and when something bad happened. I was on a freewheel bike most of
the time so I didn't have brakes either. I got really good at it but also
suffered a few spectacular wrecks. I think it was worth it overall. A whole new
sport, really.
Robert Hurst "Don't try this at home."
Andrew Bradley
> Once you learn how to do it properly I don't think it's any more
> dangerous than say - hooking your foot on the top of the saddle for a
> good quad stretch.
Speaking of which do you know the foot scrape?
Hook the foot under the bars or bring the leg back over the saddle.
This one is for removing molten tarmac and the grit stuck to it.
Andrew Bradley
g.daniels
up the glass.
visit the roger dumsey map site with the japanese hot air ballon
maps?? whew think abt eniac!! great bell!!
people wiping grap off the tread at 15+ are expletive deleted nuts.
Andrew Webster
I think you would enjoy unicycling. No handlebars or brakes to worry
about. Low maintenance. Mind you, I've never managed more than 3 or
four miles at a stretch.
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
them quicker to respond to the riders wishes. So riding them no hands
can be tricky, and under the wrong circumstances, dangerous.
Of course, a quiet smooth road is not one of those circumstances.
As for one handed riding, In the states I've ridden in the laws
concerning this are almost worded identically. "No one may operate a
bicycle in such a way that it prevents at least one hand to remain on
the bars".
As all states require that the cyclist signal his/her intentions (right,
left & stop) Riding one handed would HAVE to be legal QED.
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
reasonably safely. The key is to hook your thumb around the seatstay
(above the brake, of course); this keeps the hand far enough away from
the seat tube to prevent it from getting sucked in.
Joe"
The reason I don't wipe the rear tire is because I ride a touring bike
with "traditional" geometry. With 17" chainstays, making for a good
three inches between the tire and downtube.
As a result, i would have to reach TOO far back. I tried it and it was
immediately apparent that I was dangerously unbalanced stretched back
that far. That's why I have a "tire saver" for the rear wheel. I do wipe
the front if I have passed a patch of glass, in case there are any
slivers.
I think the kevlar belt will slow anything down enough that I can brush
it off before it get's too far in. I'm not saying this is 100%
effective, of course. The fact that I do get a couple of flats in the
life of a tire proves that.
As for it being unsafe, I don't think it's any more dangerous reaching
towards the top of your front tire than it is reaching for a water
bottle. Or getting a snack out of your rear pocket, or eating/drinking
while riding.
Do you?
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> Racing bikes are inherently unstable. They are meant to be, it
> makes them quicker to respond to the riders wishes. So riding them
> no hands can be tricky, and under the wrong circumstances,
> dangerous.
Oh BS! You sound like bicycle shops of old that tried to increase
sales by claiming steel (the most common kind then) frames get soft
with age. Now you're telling us that we've been riding unmanageable
bicycles all these years and that we need a different one for touring
or whatever. Only your credibility can be damaged by such utterances,
as can bicycle sales.
> Of course, a quiet smooth road is not one of those circumstances.
Where do you do your long distance riding? I've ridden the best
"racing" frame I could get all my adult riding years, beginning with
the Alps when most of the great passes were still unpaved. I cannot
think of a better handling frame design than what I had then and still
ride today. Among my routes are trails and logging roads as well as
mountain roads with hard braking and sharp corners.
> As for one handed riding, In the states I've ridden in the laws
> concerning this are almost worded identically. "No one may operate
> a bicycle in such a way that it prevents at least one hand to remain
> on the bars".
That was meant to say "at least on hand in/on the bra" for male
riders, I suppose. When was this jive written and by whom? I once
got stooped in Switzerland for riding no-hands on a deserted,
straight, flat, level road. I played the contrite foreigner and got a
warning.
> As all states require that the cyclist signal his/her intentions
> (right, left & stop) Riding one handed would HAVE to be legal QED.
So what does that have to do with racing bicycle stability?
Raptor
> Chris Zacho writes:
>
>>As for one handed riding, In the states I've ridden in the laws
>>concerning this are almost worded identically. "No one may operate
>>a bicycle in such a way that it prevents at least one hand to remain
>>on the bars".
>
>
> That was meant to say "at least on hand in/on the bra" for male
> riders, I suppose. When was this jive written and by whom? I once
> got stooped in Switzerland for riding no-hands on a deserted,
> straight, flat, level road. I played the contrite foreigner and got a
> warning.
I like that rule. My guess as to the author is Ron Jeremy, but I'd have
no idea when. Maybe the "free love" 60's?
Jasper Janssen
>Oh BS! You sound like bicycle shops of old that tried to increase
>sales by claiming steel (the most common kind then) frames get soft
>with age. Now you're telling us that we've been riding unmanageable
>bicycles all these years and that we need a different one for touring
>or whatever. Only your credibility can be damaged by such utterances,
>as can bicycle sales.
On racing bikes, the front wheel contact patch is further ahead of the
extension of the head tube. This makes makes them handle better: it's
easier to throw them into tight curves, and you can still corner even at
speed. This also makes them more sensitive, and take more skill to handle,
because to make regular small movements, you need to make smaller
movements with the bars.
More sensitive is NOT the same as "unmanageable". It's perfectly
manageable, but it does take slightly more skill and fine motor movements.
Jasper
Raptor
> More sensitive is NOT the same as "unmanageable". It's perfectly
> manageable, but it does take slightly more skill and fine motor movements.
>
>
> Jasper
It took me about 100-150 miles to become basically familiar with my new
road bike last year. Competence continued to improve with time. By now
it's just as much an extension of my nervous system as my old Gitane was
back in the 80's.
Ah, the joy of a quality road bicycle.