Glass and tire wiping
StuBintner
still use tire saver "wire wipes?" A few geezers that I know (and I) still do
and find that they work very well. Any comments?
David Ornee
"StuBintner" <stubi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030529220750...@mb-m25.aol.com...
I use them.
They work well.
I also use the area on my cycling gloves between the index finger and thumb
when I have been through what I think looks potentially puncture producing.
I haven't been able to implement a method for the tandem rear wheel in that
regard yet. :>
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
Raptor
If you ride on the brake hoods like many people do, don't you have road
gunk embedded in the hoods?
(I was wondering about the wire wipers myself and almost dup'd this
thread. Whew, close call there.)
--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we could to protect
our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security."
--Microsoft VP in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
Tim McNamara
shown to be (probably) useless- but I still do it automatically. When
I ride one of my bikes with fenders, I'm frustrated by the fact that
they're in the way and prevent me from wiping my tires.
With the wheels rotating several times per second, it's possibly 20
rotations by the time I get my hand down onto the tire. But I still
do it, even knowing this.
It even seems like I get more flats on my bikes with fenders. I
probably just remember those flats more clealry because the fender is
kind of a nuisance when pulling the wheel out of the frame.
What I don't know is whether "tire savers" actually have any utility.
I used them many years ago and don't remember that they seemed to make
any difference- at least I took them off after a while.
Dan Daniel
So I am finally an old geezer! If I print this out, will I get
discounts at the matinee?
I've used the wire wipers for years. I don't know if it is them, or
that I ride differently, pay more attention to road debris, when they
are on, or the phase of the moon. I know that there is a definite
pattern between using them and getting flats. If I take them off, I
start getting flats. Put them back on, almost no flats. Whether they
actually do anything or not, I'll keep them on.
Terry Morse
> What I don't know is whether "tire savers" actually have any utility.
> I used them many years ago and don't remember that they seemed to make
> any difference- at least I took them off after a while.
I used them back in the day, and they seemed pretty effective at
knocking off goathead thorns before they punctured the tube. They were
not at all effective at preventing glass, staple, wire, or thumbtack
punctures.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Yes. I throw salt over my shoulder and it works like a charm, but
then my shoes aren't full of road dirt on damp days they way my tire
saver buddies' were. Flats, for those who ride much, are a random
thing. I have on several tours of the Alps of more than 2000 miles,
pumped my clinchers before leaving home in California and not pumping
again until several weeks after my return because I had no flats.
That's the only thing that reminded me there were none.
On the other hand, I sometimes have two or three glass flats in that
duration (miles or time) and do not attribute either condition to tire
savers, wiping tires or tossing salt... but I could.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Palo Alto CA
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I used them back in the day, and they seemed pretty effective at
> knocking off goathead thorns before they punctured the tube. They
> were not at all effective at preventing glass, staple, wire, or
> thumbtack punctures.
You must have been riding nearly flat tires because a puncture vine
thorn is a spine standing on a tetrahedron that is so sharp that
lightly laying the palm of the hand on the roadside vine will have
them stick in your skin painlessly, it requires so little pressure.
If you have more than 50 psi in your tire, the thorn will penetrate
practically to its final depth on the first contact. The only ones
you could effectively knock off are ones on the sides of the tire that
would otherwise penetrate on the first corner taken.
http://www.or.blm.gov/Prineville/weed/puncture.htm
http://tinyurl.com/d0xo
http://www.cwma.org/puncturevine.html
http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0801+0392
StuBintner
>discounts at the matinee?
My suggestion is to print as you suggest and take it to the local AMC. Chances
are the kid selling tickets thinks you are very old--providing, of course, that
you are over 18 years of age.
Robin Hubert
news:WLCBa.18140$JX2.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Now that I know what this beast looks like I'd like to know the distribution
of it in the U.S. We don't seem to have it in Illinois and the Midwest.
Any links?
Thank you,
--
Robin Hubert <cv2...@earthlink.net>
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> I used them back in the day, and they seemed pretty effective at
>>> knocking off goathead thorns before they punctured the tube. They
>>> were not at all effective at preventing glass, staple, wire, or
>>> thumbtack punctures.
>> You must have been riding nearly flat tires because a puncture vine
>> thorn is a spine standing on a tetrahedron that is so sharp that
>> lightly laying the palm of the hand on the roadside vine will have
>> them stick in your skin painlessly, it requires so little pressure.
>> If you have more than 50 psi in your tire, the thorn will penetrate
>> practically to its final depth on the first contact. The only ones
>> you could effectively knock off are ones on the sides of the tire that
>> would otherwise penetrate on the first corner taken.
>> http://www.or.blm.gov/Prineville/weed/puncture.htm
>> http://tinyurl.com/d0xo
>> http://www.cwma.org/puncturevine.html
>> http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0801+0392
> Now that I know what this beast looks like I'd like to know the
> distribution of it in the U.S. We don't seem to have it in Illinois
> and the Midwest. Any links?
The trouble is that Tribulus Terrestris is cure-all for quacks and has
many listings in that field, making it hard to find sites that discuss
the plant biologically. It grows in all continents and thrives on
barren soil. That is why it is common on western roadsides that are
sprayed to suppress growth of flammable weeds. Puncture vine
germinates after other plants have sprouted and gone and it grows only
where there are no competitors.
It is my observation that it sprouts only after the first real hot
spell of sumer has passed, followed by some thunder showers here in
California where we have essentially no rain all summer. Roundup (c)
does not kill it either, so late spraying only prevents competitors
from returning but allows its growth.
http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/weedinfo/TRIBULUS2.html
g.daniels
sweep glass from the street!!
carry dayglo poster paper and edge it onto the pave' and scrap the
shards off to the side.
or cardboard.
Jay Beattie
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:nPKBa.18235$JX2.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
The link indicates that glyphosate (RoundUp) is effective on puncture
vine. -- Jay Beattie.
David L. Johnson
I used them back in the 70s. When I got back on my bike in about '95, I
wandered into a bike shop one day looking for tires. The guy at the
counter saw I was still using tubulars, and immediately offerred me a
couple of tire savers to cut down on the flats.
They didn't really work, and the wire (basically a piece of a spoke) wore
out rather quickly. They did make a bit of noise, but not enough to
substitute for the card in the spokes.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]
David L. Johnson
I particularly like the picture of the car tire covered with the thorns.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |
Douglas Landau
the number of goatshead punctures, even on properly inflated
tires, and even in the center of the tire. Although sharp,
goatsheads are weak and easily broken and in the vast majority
of cases don't go in straight, and get broken off before going
in anywhere near far enough to reach the air.
Doug
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org wrote in message news:<WLCBa.18140$JX2.1...@typhoon.sonic.net>...
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/weedinfo/TRIBULUS2.html
> The link indicates that glyphosate (RoundUp) is effective on
> puncture vine.
http://www.monsanto.com.au/roundup/RoundupHerbicide.htm
Well it's not. Back in the days when puncture vine was a mystery to
bicyclists in this area (no one knew what the plants habitat or
appearance was) I spooked around and talked to some Stanford
biologists who were incensed that I had the temerity to disagree with
their equally unknowing assessment of the plant. I had foolishly
mentioned my observation that it only grew where the university
sprayed roadsides and that it was a poor competitor with other weeds.
Thereupon they began a selective spraying all summer of previously
sprayed and now puncture vine infested roadsides. Tribulus terrestris
shrank a little but repeatedly came back after being Roundupped(R).
That Roundup(R) negatively affects puncture vine is proven, but it
does not get rid of it.
My main experiment was at my frame builders apartment at the time.
His apartment manager kept the place neat and tidy and among these
tasks was keeping the weeds down in the unplanted plot between
sidewalk and street. He regularly sprayed it in spring and
subsequently puncture vine with its cute yellow flowers kept the plot
green all summer as it strayed onto the sidewalk and over the curb.
We told the man about the flat tires it causes and demonstrated the
density of goat heads in the vicinity. We convinced him not to spray
and that we would trim the weeds. Next summer there was no puncture
vine as we ran a lawn mower over the volunteer wild grasses and clover
occasionally.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> Oh bullshit. Terry is right, they are effective at reducing the
> number of goatshead punctures, even on properly inflated tires, and
> even in the center of the tire. Although sharp, goatsheads are weak
> and easily broken and in the vast majority of cases don't go in
> straight, and get broken off before going in anywhere near far
> enough to reach the air.
Goat heads do not have feet of their own and do not travel far from
the plant unless someone travels through their midst. I think if you
take a close look at these seed pods, you'll see they are made of
highly durable strong yet pliable wood. Therefore, getting one or two
of them is a rarity and if you ride over a plant you will pick up at
least a dozen thorns. If your tire-saver gets even half of them you
haven't gained anything. On the other hand I have seen people sitting
at the roadside pulling them out of their tires and discarding them
onto the street. Thanks!
Jasper Janssen
<david....@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 May 2003 06:21:42 +0000, jobst.brand wrote:
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/d0xo
>
>I particularly like the picture of the car tire covered with the thorns.
Don't these things break into pieces once the business end is embedded in
even a car tire? I'd expect the other three tines to be crushed off..
Nasty stuff.
Jasper
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> I particularly like the picture of the car tire covered with the
>> thorns.
> Don't these things break into pieces once the business end is
> embedded in even a car tire? I'd expect the other three tines to be
> crushed off..
There are only two thorns per pod, the pod is fairly solid wood in
roughly in the shape of an orange segment of up to 60 degrees having a
single thorn extending from the middle of each arch so that one lies
parallel to the ground while the other stands vertically. The
tip-to-tip outline is a tetrahedron, the base edge bing the diameter
of the orange slice. The flower has 5 petals and the pod has five
segments. This can be seen in the lower picture at:
http://www.or.blm.gov/Prineville/weed/puncture.htm
> Nasty stuff.
No doubt, and the spines have resin on them that make penetration
extremely painful. It hurts just to watch a dog walk into the stuff.
The only defense is to stand still and 'cry'. You must rescue the
dog, carry it away and carefully pull out the thorns.
A Muzi
effective at
> >>> knocking off goathead thorns before they punctured the tube. They
> >>> were not at all effective at preventing glass, staple, wire, or
> >>> thumbtack punctures.
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org>>> >> You must have been riding nearly flat
tires because a puncture vine
> >> thorn is a spine standing on a tetrahedron that is so sharp that
> >> lightly laying the palm of the hand on the roadside vine will have
> >> them stick in your skin painlessly, it requires so little pressure.
> >> If you have more than 50 psi in your tire, the thorn will penetrate
> >> practically to its final depth on the first contact. The only ones
> >> you could effectively knock off are ones on the sides of the tire that
> >> would otherwise penetrate on the first corner taken.
>
> >> http://www.or.blm.gov/Prineville/weed/puncture.htm
> >> http://tinyurl.com/d0xo
> >> http://www.cwma.org/puncturevine.html
> >> http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?enlarge=0000+0000+0801+0392
> Robin Hubert writes:
> > Now that I know what this beast looks like I'd like to know the
> > distribution of it in the U.S. We don't seem to have it in Illinois
> > and the Midwest. Any links?
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org> , scaring the hell out of us, wrote darkly
in message news:nPKBa.18235$JX2.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> The trouble is that Tribulus Terrestris is cure-all for quacks and has
> many listings in that field, making it hard to find sites that discuss
> the plant biologically. It grows in all continents and thrives on
> barren soil. That is why it is common on western roadsides that are
> sprayed to suppress growth of flammable weeds. Puncture vine
> germinates after other plants have sprouted and gone and it grows only
> where there are no competitors.
>
> It is my observation that it sprouts only after the first real hot
> spell of sumer has passed, followed by some thunder showers here in
> California where we have essentially no rain all summer. Roundup (c)
> does not kill it either, so late spraying only prevents competitors
> from returning but allows its growth.
>
> http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/weedinfo/TRIBULUS2.html
>
What a nightmare! Glad we don't have that beast here!
--
Andrew Muzi
http://www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April 1971
VeloCat
>
> It is my observation that it sprouts only after the first real hot
> spell of sumer has passed, followed by some thunder showers here in
> California where we have essentially no rain all summer. Roundup (c)
> does not kill it either, so late spraying only prevents competitors
> from returning but allows its growth.
>
> http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/weedinfo/TRIBULUS2.html
>
According to the URL you provided, Roundup is effective in killing
puncturevine.
> Chemical: Chlorosulfuron, 2,4-D, imazapyr, MCPA, paraquat,
> glyphosate, and dicamba are effective on puncturevine.
Note that glyphosate is the generic name for Roundup.
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_WG044
Dave
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> It is my observation that it sprouts only after the first real hot
>> spell of sumer has passed, followed by some thunder showers here in
>> California where we have essentially no rain all summer.
>> Roundup(c) does not kill it either, so late spraying only prevents
>> competitors from returning but allows its growth.
http://pi.cdfa.ca.gov/weedinfo/TRIBULUS2.html
> According to the URL you provided, Roundup is effective in killing
> puncture vine.
>> Chemical: Chlorosulfuron, 2,4-D, imazapyr, MCPA, paraquat,
>> glyphosate, and dicamba are effective on puncture vine.
> Note that glyphosate is the generic name for Roundup.
>> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_WG044
And note that I said it didn't kill puncture vine in the Stanford
tests but retarded its growth slightly. Repeated spraying will
ultimately kill it but it is not a reasonable way of getting rid of
it.
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
especially rural areas and in the central portions, like Fresno.
Haven't seen any out here in the southeast _yet_.
May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris
Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
I wipe the front.
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
plants may be getting killed, the seeds, which one of the articles
stated can remain dormant for up to four years, are probably not. And
with the competition gone, the shit is merely resprouting.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
his hand stuck between the tire and seattube....he didn't fall either...
But I wipe me tires, don know if it helps or not, but i hook my thumb around
the seat stay, to prevent above...
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
Mark Janeba
> Funniest thing I saw was a guy, reaching back to wipe his rear tire and getting
> his hand stuck between the tire and seattube....he didn't fall either...
Been there, done that. I skidded the rear tire, if I recall, and was
lucky not to fall. Scared the **** out of me. (This was many years ago
on my first racing bike, much less tire clearance than my previous tour
bike). I can look back and laugh *now*, not then.
> But I wipe me tires, don know if it helps or not, but i hook my thumb around
> the seat stay, to prevent above...
I too learned the "feel for the seat stay" trick. Quit wiping a few
years ago, though, and haven't noticed any difference in flat frequency.
Regards,
--
Mark Janeba
remove antispam phrase in address to reply
Sam Huffman
Out of curiousity, what happens when something more significant than glass is
also on the tire? I got a flat the other day after riding over a small patch
of glass. The glass didn't cause the flat but a wood staple I hadn't seen did.
One of the sharp points was embedded in the tire and the other wasn't.
It seems to me that wiping the tire could easily have resulted in slicing my
hand open with the staple, glove or no. Has anyone experienced this?
Sam
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> I too learned the "feel for the seat stay" trick. Quit wiping a
>> few years ago, though, and haven't noticed any difference in flat
>> frequency.
Saved a lot of dirty hands as well, I'm sure. I came to that
conclusion on the first few rides with wiping riders, from observing
how many wheel revolutions passed before the wipe began. It didn't
make sense and the analysis makes it even more preposterous.
> Out of curiousity, what happens when something more significant than
> glass is also on the tire? I got a flat the other day after riding
> over a small patch of glass. The glass didn't cause the flat but a
> wood staple I hadn't seen did. One of the sharp points was embedded
> in the tire and the other wasn't.
This is the old bugaboo that migrates to finding the offending cause
of a flat tire while patching. As was discussed in a related thread,
these tales keep anxiety up and the image of gushing blood vivid.
Keep it up. However, It doesn't readily happen and has never occurred
in my bicycling experience. It is theoretically possible but don't
bet on it. Finding the wire, glass, or thorn by wiping the thumb
around the inside of the tire is not hazardous and is essential to
keeping air in the tire. Even Michelin wires, that are fairly common
on roads, need be found by braille when patching.
> It seems to me that wiping the tire could easily have resulted in
> slicing my hand open with the staple, glove or no. Has anyone
> experienced this?
Only if you ignored the rotation piece of hardware that was going
click-click-click as you rode.
Sam Huffman
> Sam Huffman writes:
>
> > Out of curiousity, what happens when something more significant than
> > glass is also on the tire? I got a flat the other day after riding
> > over a small patch of glass. The glass didn't cause the flat but a
> > wood staple I hadn't seen did. One of the sharp points was embedded
> > in the tire and the other wasn't.
>
> This is the old bugaboo that migrates to finding the offending cause
> of a flat tire while patching. As was discussed in a related thread,
> these tales keep anxiety up and the image of gushing blood vivid.
> Keep it up.
I'm not sure what you would have me "keep up". I certainly didn't experience
anxiety and am not worried about gushing blood, as I don't wipe my tires.
You are reading between the lines and inferring an intent that is not present.
> However, It doesn't readily happen and has never occurred
> in my bicycling experience. It is theoretically possible but don't
> bet on it. Finding the wire, glass, or thorn by wiping the thumb
> around the inside of the tire is not hazardous and is essential to
> keeping air in the tire. Even Michelin wires, that are fairly common
> on roads, need be found by braille when patching.
There is a significant difference between encountering a very small sharp
object (not even readily visible to the eye) while slowly rubbing one's
finger around the inside of a tire and encountering a 0.5" staple leg at
perhaps 150 rpm. Particularly when the hand cannot be removed quickly. Do you
have any reason to believe this couldn't happen?
It wouldn't surprise me that this has not happened to you, since you are not a
tire-wiper. That is why the query was posed to those who are.
> > It seems to me that wiping the tire could easily have resulted in
> > slicing my hand open with the staple, glove or no. Has anyone
> > experienced this?
>
> Only if you ignored the rotation piece of hardware that was going
> click-click-click as you rode.
Unfortunately there was no "click-click-click". After maybe 25 yards the only
sound I heard was the *pfft* - *pfft* - *pfft of escaping air.
Sam
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> However, It doesn't readily happen and has never occurred in my
>> bicycling experience. It is theoretically possible but don't bet
>> on it. Finding the wire, glass, or thorn by wiping the thumb
>> around the inside of the tire is not hazardous and is essential to
>> keeping air in the tire. Even Michelin wires, that are fairly
>> common on roads, need be found by braille when patching.
> There is a significant difference between encountering a very small
> sharp object (not even readily visible to the eye) while slowly
> rubbing one's finger around the inside of a tire and encountering a
> 0.5" staple leg at perhaps 150 rpm. Particularly when the hand
> cannot be removed quickly. Do you have any reason to believe this
> couldn't happen?
> It wouldn't surprise me that this has not happened to you, since you
> are not a tire-wiper. That is why the query was posed to those who
> are.
>>> It seems to me that wiping the tire could easily have resulted in
>>> slicing my hand open with the staple, glove or no. Has anyone
>>> experienced this?
>> Only if you ignored the rotation piece of hardware that was going
>> click-click-click as you rode.
> Unfortunately there was no "click-click-click". After maybe 25 yards
> the only sound I heard was the *pfft* - *pfft* - *pfft of escaping
> air.
Nature is also at work here and a forward leaning protuberance on a
tire gets bent back and flat against the tire. The likelihood of the
scenario so often pictured here as you have does not occur and not
because people don't manually wipe tires, but because protruding glass
is broken off and exposed wires bent back. You need to look at the
occurrences and decide why they don't exist. When I first began
bicycling tire wiping was THE rave. None of these folks had the
slasher incident that is so often portrayed in this space.
Sam Huffman
> Sam Huffman writes:
>
> >> Only if you ignored the rotation piece of hardware that was going
> >> click-click-click as you rode.
>
> > Unfortunately there was no "click-click-click". After maybe 25 yards
> > the only sound I heard was the *pfft* - *pfft* - *pfft of escaping
> > air.
>
> Nature is also at work here and a forward leaning protuberance on a
> tire gets bent back and flat against the tire. The likelihood of the
> scenario so often pictured here as you have does not occur and not
> because people don't manually wipe tires, but because protruding glass
> is broken off and exposed wires bent back.
Thanks; I can visualize that explanation. Though it is not true that the
scenario does not occur, based on your experience it sounds like it may merely
be sufficiently uncommon as to pose little threat.
Sam
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
glass is also on the tire? I got a flat the other day after riding over
a small patch of glass. The glass didn't cause the flat but a wood
staple I hadn't seen did. One of the sharp points was embedded in the
tire and the other wasn't.
It seems to me that wiping the tire could easily have resulted in
slicing my hand open with the staple, glove or no. Has anyone
experienced this?
Sam"
Usually, something this severe will cause the tire to go flat very
quickly, in most cases with an auditory announcement of sufficient
volume to notify the rider he or she has a flat. Most people do not wipe
their tires when this happens. They may curse, but they don't wipe.
There are exceptions, of course. Which is why the tire is only lightly
wiped, and usually only when a patch of glass has been passed or run
through.
Tim McNamara
never had my hand or glove cut. I don't know if I've ever
actuallyprevented a flat, though. I've flicked lots of stuff off the
tires over the years, but most likely they were sticky objects rather
than something imbedded in the tire.
Dane Jackson
>
> This is the old bugaboo that migrates to finding the offending cause
> of a flat tire while patching. As was discussed in a related thread,
> these tales keep anxiety up and the image of gushing blood vivid.
> Keep it up. However, It doesn't readily happen and has never occurred
> in my bicycling experience. It is theoretically possible but don't
> bet on it. Finding the wire, glass, or thorn by wiping the thumb
> around the inside of the tire is not hazardous and is essential to
> keeping air in the tire. Even Michelin wires, that are fairly common
> on roads, need be found by braille when patching.
I managed to cut myself rather nicely that way. It was a rather large
chunk of glass in the tire that I sliced my finger open with. I
couldn't get it to stop bleeding, so eventually I just stuck my hand
in my glove (full finger because it was winter). I finished changing
the tire, cycled to work and use the first aid box there to bandage up.
I've been somewhat more careful since then, mainly using a glove for a
first wipe around the inside. I figure if it's big enough to cut me
decently, it will catch on the glove.
--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Linux! Guerrilla UNIX Development Venimus, Vidimus, Dolavimus.
(By m...@ka4ybr.com, Mark A. Horton KA4YBR)
thekid
design.
"StuBintner" <stubi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030529220750...@mb-m25.aol.com...