Engine heating up when pulling trailer
D Phillips
pick-up. I don't have a towing radiator. I just have the standard one that
came on it. It runs around 235 degrees when pulling and with the A/C on.
Other than a bigger radiator is there anything I can do to reduce the heat?
It's not over heating but I'm not wild about it running that hot. It can't
be good for seals and gaskets.
Thanks,
dphillip
Will Sill
1) Turn off the a/c
2) Install a large tranny cooler - if it is not already too late. And
install it upstream of the OEM hx.
3) Go for the bigger radiator
4) Make sure you are not pulling with the torque converter slipping
(ie outa lockup) and if necessary shift down manually to 3rd gear.
Will KD3XR
John A. Mooney
inside the cab and run the fan on high.
D Phillips <dphi...@amcinc.net> wrote in article
<NowE8.2195$3U6.5...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>...
Colin H.
conditioner won't be much good when the heater is on instead. Sounds like
you need a bigger rad or what do the rv places recommend? Since I suppose
you'd like to keep the A/C on and still tow.
"John A. Mooney" <jamoo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:01c1fc55$c5c18ba0$b112ea43@Mooney486...
HLBRSMA
I been there,done that. Start with a bigger radiator that has 4 rows of tubes
instead of the 3 rows you have now, then add a good sized transmission cooler
bigger is better. I once had this problem and nothing will solve your problem
other the aforementioned retrofits I tried a myriad of cooling fans from many
bladed to flex fans. That brings me to 'Flex Fans' do not ever use flex fans
while towing because when you are going up steep grades and your engine is
going full bore and your tow vehicle is going very slow the fan straightens out
and you have no cooling at all. Stu
Marshall Richards
MR
"HLBRSMA" <hlb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020515181223...@mb-ma.aol.com...
telestar
problem is your transmission because of converter slippage due to the excess
load. Get an auxillary transmission cooler with a theromastat and an engine
oil cooler will be good medicine too.
"D Phillips" <dphi...@amcinc.net> wrote in message
news:NowE8.2195$3U6.5...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Lon VanOstran
>
> yes but then the seals and gaskets in the driver will blow as the air
> conditioner won't be much good when the heater is on instead. Sounds like
> you need a bigger rad or what do the rv places recommend? Since I suppose
> you'd like to keep the A/C on and still tow.
Suit yourself, but I would never run dash air conditioners while towing,
just like I never use the dash air in my MH. Engines and transmissions
being asked to do that much work just don't need extra heat dumped in
front of the radiator.
Lon
Neon John
I've had very poor results with 4 row radiators. The problem is, the extra
air path restriction impairs the air flow sufficiently to negate the extra
cooling surface. Many fans, particularly if the shroud isn't tightly fitting
and reasonably air-tight around the edges, can't generate sufficient
differential pressure to drive a 4 row radiator.
The first thing to look at, of course, is the radiator itself. If it is limed
up, the first thing to do is have the radiator boiled out (or do it yourself).
A related problem is tube blockage. If the vehicle is very old and has had
engine work, even something as simple as a thermostat change, then it is
probable that some of the tubes are clogged by debris. One customer vehicle I
worked on had over half the tubes clogged with shards of silicone seal! The
mechanic had apparently not bothered to clean up his scrapings after removing
the old sealing.
I had a chronic overheating problem with my 68 Plymouth Fury. I tried the 4
row radiator and the problem got worse. This is identical to my experience
with Datsun Z cars and a couple of Ford pickup trucks. I decided to
instrument the vehicle and discover why. I measured the pressure drop across
the radiator as well as the inlet and outlet air and water temperatures and
the air velocity. I found that a new OEM trailer package radiator (3 row)
radiator provided almost twice the heat rejection capability of the
aftermarket 4 row radiator, all because of the added restriction to air flow.
As an experiment on the worthless 4 row radiator, I carefully clipped every
other fin on the front and back rows. (not possible to get to the center two)
This markedly improved things, indicating that a 4 row radiator might help
provided the fin count is REDUCED, the opposite of most radiator shop
recommendations.
The cause of the overheating in my Fury was not obvious until I started
measuring things. The rear springs had fatigued and dropped the rear end a
couple of inches. This change in attitude caused high pressure air to build
up under the car, slightly pressurizing the engine compartment. This pressure
mostly negated the air flow from forward motion ram effect. I found the
static pressure under the hood to be about equal to the dynamic pressure in
front of the radiator at 60 mph!
After testing with air shocks, I had my rear springs recurved which almost
completely eliminated the pressure buildup under the hood. My second change,
opening some vent holes from the inner finger to the wheel wells and some
additional vents between the engine compartment and the vented area beneath
the windshield, solved the problem completely. I have NO overheating, even
with the stock 2 row radiator and even when pulling a utility trailer.
There are some other things that can be done. Adding an oil and a
transmission cooler will help but ONLY if they are mounted in clean air that
doesn't disturb the flow to the radiator. On my MH, I added a small
transmission fluid cooler and mounted it over to the side of the radiator and
equipped it with a small electric radiator fan acquired from the junkyard. I
put a thermostat on the fan so that it doesn't run until the fluid temperature
reaches 200 deg F. Since I didn't have an overheating problem to begin with,
this fan rarely runs. Mounting the cooler in the radiator air flow does
little other than shuffle the heat around a bit and is quite ineffective if
there is already an overheating problem.
Of course, turning off the AC when overheating is evident will make a major
difference.
Another thing that will help is to make sure there is little leakage between
the fan shroud and radiator mount. There was almost an inch gap between the
radiator and shroud on my Fury. Simply sealing that gap with adhesive foam
and metal tape made a significant difference.
Finally, there is the fan clutch. Most folks don't know it but there are
several different clutches for a given engine (at least for the Chevy engine
in my MH and the Mopar engine in my Fury) that outwardly look identical. The
difference is what temperature the fan cuts in at and how much power it
couples to the fan. The more power, the faster the fan turns. In my case, I
found that while GM didn't list a MH fan per se, the most heavy duty clutch
was listed for a full size van with towing package.
A major complication is that the major aftermarket houses such as AutoZone
don't distinguish between the various clutches, or at least they didn't for my
vehicles. I paid the extra money to get an OEM clutch from the dealership.
These clutches couple power via a viscous silicone fluid. This fluid can
slowly leak out, decreasing the power coupling over time. The clutch may seem
fine (spinning the fan at idle) but won't couple enough power to really spin
the fan up when hot.
An unexpected byproduct of upgrading the fan clutch is that unless your engine
has dual belt or serpentine belt drive to the water pump, belt life will be
negatively impacted. My MH only has a single belt drive but I found that buy
using NAPA's highest grade belt, I could get a year out of it. That cheap
sh*t Kelly Springfield that AutoZone sells would last no more than a couple of
trips.
One other thing to watch out for. At least AutoZone, and maybe other parts
houses, is selling a non-thermostatic clutch as the standard grade unit. The
non-thermostatic unit does not vary the coupling according to temperature and
will make a marginal system overheat. These can be identified by the lack of
a bimetal spiral on the front of the clutch. At least for my vehicles, I
could get the thermostatic clutch by specifying the extra-cost "premium" unit.
I abandoned this chinese-made junk for the OEM part after seeing how poorly
they were made.
John
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Vigilance Committee
Does your V-10 temp gauge ever move? Mine gets up within a mile and
never moves after that. Low normal range. Steep hills, towing, AC
going, etc. doesn't matter. My 460 would climb a little but never
overheated. The 454s? They had a 2 butterfly limit until I put in a
tranny cooler and hard wired the electric fans to a switch. Also would
run the front and rear heaters on a long climb.
LZ
Lon VanOstran
> > Suit yourself, but I would never run dash air conditioners while towing,
> > just like I never use the dash air in my MH. Engines and transmissions
> > being asked to do that much work just don't need extra heat dumped in
> > front of the radiator.
> >
> > Lon
>
> Does your V-10 temp gauge ever move? Mine gets up within a mile and
> never moves after that. Low normal range. Steep hills, towing, AC
> going, etc. doesn't matter. My 460 would climb a little but never
> overheated. The 454s? They had a 2 butterfly limit until I put in a
> tranny cooler and hard wired the electric fans to a switch. Also would
> run the front and rear heaters on a long climb.
> LZ
It never moves measurably by the naked eye. I still wouldn't even
consider running dash air while working an engine that hard. Thankfully,
I have a generator which NEEDS exercise, and roof air.
Lon, who doesn't like the idea of dumping extra heat in front of the
radiator of a hard working engine on a hot day.
D. Warren Robison
gave us the following knowledge:
<<Snipe>>
>
>It never moves measurably by the naked eye. I still wouldn't even
>consider running dash air while working an engine that hard. Thankfully,
>I have a generator which NEEDS exercise, and roof air.
>
>Lon, who doesn't like the idea of dumping extra heat in front of the
>radiator of a hard working engine on a hot day.
If you run your "dash" air and it does not raise your water temp, it
would not effect your engine would it?
Do you remember the old compressors for the air units on older trucks?
You know, the ones that would not release the clutch over a certain
RPM. I had a 1976 Ford Tall Boy that I blew the rod on the compressor
from running the AC while running 65 MPH while towing a horse trailer
from Indiana to Colorado. Made for a very hot (and wendy) trip.
------~oo~------
Bad will be the day for every man when he
becomes absolutely contented with the life he
is leading, with the thoughts he is thinking,
with the deeds he is doing; when there is not
forever beating at the doors of his soul some
great desire to do something larger, which he
knows that he was meant and made to do because
he is still, in spite of all, the child of God.
... Phillips Brooks (1835-1893)
Vigilance Committee
> > LZ
>
> It never moves measurably by the naked eye. I still wouldn't even
> consider running dash air while working an engine that hard. Thankfully,
> I have a generator which NEEDS exercise, and roof air.
My V-10 has never complained I am working it too hard. I figure it will
do so by running warmer like my previous engines.
LZ
one@home.com Wade
"D. Warren Robison" <d...@shelbynet.net> wrote in message
news:olf7eugumrutgnbm6...@4ax.com...
> from Indiana to Colorado. Made for a very hot (and wendy) trip.
> ------~oo~------
>
Wade
GBinNC
>"D. Warren Robison" <d...@shelbynet.net> wrote:
>> Made for a very hot (and wendy) trip.
>Had to keep stopping for burgers to keep cool?
<snerk> Nice catch, Wade.
GB in NC
b b
> Does your V-10 temp gauge ever move? Mine gets up within a mile and
> never moves after that. Low normal range. Steep hills, towing, AC
> going, etc. doesn't matter.
>
down, temperature never moves.
Regards,
Barrie B
Lon VanOstran
>
> On Thu, 16 May 2002 04:44:28 -0400, Lon VanOstran <rv...@voyager.net>
> gave us the following knowledge:
> >It never moves measurably by the naked eye. I still wouldn't even
> >consider running dash air while working an engine that hard. Thankfully,
> >I have a generator which NEEDS exercise, and roof air.
> >
> >Lon, who doesn't like the idea of dumping extra heat in front of the
> >radiator of a hard working engine on a hot day.
>
> If you run your "dash" air and it does not raise your water temp, it
> would not effect your engine would it?
>
Maybe, maybe not. If you don't have a transmission temperature gauge,
you might be heating up the tranny. I just *refuse* to run dash air on
an engine working as hard as any engine must when moving an RV down the
road on a hot day. I had this argument with an ex wife once upon a time
while pulling a 20' boat. She kept bitching about the heat and insisting
that I was being stupid. I finally relented and flipped on the air.
Forty miles later smoke started rolling out of the engine compartment.
Fifteen hundred dollars later I had a new transmission. Too bad I
couldn't have gotten out of the divorce that cheap, but it was a bargain
at ANY price.
Suit yourself. I was just presenting my opinion, and we all know what
they say about opinions.
Lon
D. Warren Robison
gave us the following knowledge:
>Maybe, maybe not. If you don't have a transmission temperature gauge,
>you might be heating up the tranny.
Point taken. I always went the extra step and added trany coolers to
all my trucks that I used to pull any trailer. Doing that I never had
a problem with overheating or burning up a trany with air on or going
up inclines. I could see that using the RV air would be a better way
of doing it.
D. Warren Robison
Sue did! Hard to pass up a Frosty!
On Thu, 16 May 2002 14:36:22 GMT, "Wade" <No o...@home.com> gave us the
following knowledge:
>
------~oo~------
GBinNC
<d...@shelbynet.net> wrote:
>>> from Indiana to Colorado. Made for a very hot (and wendy) trip.
>>Had to keep stopping for burgers to keep cool?
>Sue did! Hard to pass up a Frosty!
Okay, but what did YOU have?
GB in NC
D. Warren Robison
Well I had Sue of course. <g>
Dan
A 17 ft. Scotty can't be that heavy or have a huge frontal area.
Suggest (from trailering experience) that you check the engine cooling
fan clutch and also see if the radiator doesn't need flushing or
rodding out. I have no experience with Chevys, but aren't there some
engines that just run high on the temp. guage? Also, recommend not
towing in overdrive but keep it in 3rd range on the automatic, if
that's what you have. With a well functioning cooling system, I'd bet
that you could tow and also use your air conditioning without any
problem. In other words, try checking service items first. Good luck.
bill horne
Yeah, I think there may something amiss also. I pulled a 17-ft Nomad for
8 years with a 305 '83 Chevy PU but it did have a larger than stock
radiator core and a tranny cooler. I've been pulling it since '96 with a
350 '96 Chevy PU with stock radiator and no tranny cooler. I do not tow
in OD with the 96, and the 83 had no overdrive. 3.42 rear end in the 96,
and "standard" (3.42, I think) rear end in the 83. No heating problems
with either.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
JanOrme99
cooling radiator system consider this.
Put some Red Line "Water Wetter" additive in your coolant. In the summer you do
not need antifreeze. If you want to you can make the coolant much more
efficient for hot weather by draining it and going to straight distilled water
with one or two bottles of "Water Wetter" and a touch of pump lube. Straight
water is a much better and efficiant coolant than a 50/50 water/antifreeze mix.
With straight water you may also want to install a higher pound radiator cap.
That will raise the boiling point and avoid boil overs. Regardless of straight
water or a 50/50 mix the Red Line "Water Wetter" will help keep the coolant
cooler.
Everything works together, so IMHO you should also use a synthetic like Mobil 1
in the crankcase and a synthetic ATF in the auto transmission. The driveline
combination is a huge heatsink that needs help in all departments to keep the
heat down for ALL systems under the heavy stress of towing. Cool down the
coolant, the engine oil and the transmission oil. This will help all of the
components run cooler and last longer.
My opinion of what has worked for me.
Jan Eric Orme
"Good judgment comes from
experience, and a lot of that
comes from bad judgment."
-Will Rogers
Don Dickson
the exhaust system with low resistence muffler and larger diameter
tail pipe. When I did that with my pickup the operating temperate
dropped about 20F both towing and running empty. If the heat of the
exhaust flows freely out of the engine then it doesn't have to be
absorbed by the coolant. This can all be done without raising the
exhaust noise level by choosing the proper muffler.
--
Don Dickson
Jon Porter
"D. Warren Robison" <dwar...@mail.phgmail.com> wrote in message
news:v5s8eusjdo64f58eh...@4ax.com...
GBinNC
wrote:
>> >>>> from Indiana to Colorado. Made for a very hot (and wendy) trip.
>> >
>> >>>Had to keep stopping for burgers to keep cool?
>> >
>> >>Sue did! Hard to pass up a Frosty!
>> >
>> >Okay, but what did YOU have?
>> >
>> Well I had Sue of course. <g>
>>
>OK, so you got Sue-ed. Then what? <g>
Or did you maybe mean "Scrue-ed"?
GB in NC
Hughbd1
Somebody screwed Ed? Ed who? Anyone on this newsgroup?
Hugh
Crashj
> Do all the maintenance as others suggest.
> If you don't want to go to a larger
> cooling radiator system consider this.
>
> Put some Red Line "Water Wetter" additive in your coolant.
> In the summer you do not need antifreeze.
> If you want to you can make the coolant much more
> efficient for hot weather by draining it
> and going to straight distilled water
> with one or two bottles of "Water Wetter"
> and a touch of pump lube. Straight
> water is a much better and efficiant coolant
> than a 50/50 water/antifreeze mix.
<>
is more efficient. Oddly enough, ethylene glycol is 60% the heat
capacity of water. So changing from 50/50 mix to straight water will
get you from .8 to 1.0 specific heat, a 25% improvement.
I do not think there is any point in using distilled water since there
is so much crud in the cooling system it will be corrupted as you pour
it in. Clean and flush when you changeover, of course.
I used "EngineKool" and "Barr's Leak" in the racer in the old days.
The choice of heat transfer enhancers is yours. Pump lubrication and
corrosion inhibition are also functions filled by antifreeze
solutions. Straight antifreeze boils at close to 400F.
Incidentally, ethylene glocol is a nasty animal killer and should be
disposed properly. Two Tbsp will kill a cat.
Crashj 'ummm, tasty, Bart' Johnson
Tom Marik
First, I want to say I agree that water is at most 25% more efficient than a 50/50 mix.
I would disagree about distilled water. I think that it's the cheapest insurance that you can do to be
sure that you're not introducing more lime or other junk into the cooling system. Is it worth it. It
think two 89 cent bottles every couple of years is a pretty small expense. Sometimes. I've blown three
bottles on a flush, also. I got the cost down to twenty cents a gallon with reusable bottles so I had
pure coolant for one dollar.
Tom
D. Warren Robison
>
No Ed was not available for that trip. You're thinking about the Indy
to NY trip. Bob was there as well.
Frank Damp
with a 429 Ford LTD. The biggest overheating problem he encountered
was when stuck in slow-moving traffic in the typical Virginia summer
conditions (90 F, 90% RH).
His solution was to install a spray bar, a 3/8 inch brass tube with a
line of small holes drilled in it, along the top of the radiator core,
just below the header tank, aligned so the water sprayed onto the
radiator's front face. He then had a 4-gallon reservoir filled with
water and a windshield washer pump connected to the spray bar. There
was a lot of room under the hood of the old LTD for extra stuff!
When he saw the temp going up, he would switch the pump on. He
reckoned that 30 seconds of spray (maybe a quarter gallon)would drop
the water temp 20 degrees - enough to prevent a boil-over.
Frank Damp
Anacortes, WA
Roland
inch long glasspack? Makes any difference??
Roland
"Don Dickson" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-19D077....@nntp.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Will Sill
>What about if I change it (the muffler)out for a 3 inch with about 12 to 15
>inch long glasspack? Makes any difference??
Yes, it will make a huge difference. You rig will awaken the dead
and set off car alarms as you drive by.
It will NOT, however, solve the overheating problem, though
restrictive exhaust can be a contributor.
"Most people are about as happy as they make up their
minds to be." [A. Lincoln]
Will KD3XR
HHamp5246
<rls...@kc.rr.com.invalid> writes:
>What about if I change it (the muffler)out for a 3 inch with about 12 to 15
inch long glasspack? Makes any difference??
You'll be the hit of all the campgrounds......... especially late at night and
early in the morning.
Hunter
bill horne
Hey. I thought everybody liked rumbling packs and hiphop. Should I
cancel my subwoofer order, you think?
HHamp5246
>Hey. I thought everybody liked rumbling packs and hiphop. Should I
>cancel my subwoofer order, you think?
Gosh no, I like attracting attention when I pull into campgrounds..... imagine
the thrills you're gonna get...all eyes will be pointed your way.
Hunter
Will Sill
> I like attracting attention when I pull into campgrounds..... imagine
>the thrills you're gonna get...all eyes will be pointed your way.
[eye roll]
She ain't kidding, guys.
Will KD3XR
Vigilance Committee
It's cheaper to switch your CB to the PA mode and broadcast Mariachi
music as you enter.
LZ
Don Dickson
"Roland" <rls...@kc.rr.com.invalid> wrote:
> What about if I change it (the muffler)out for a 3 inch with about 12 to 15
> inch long glasspack? Makes any difference??
Yes you will probably break every municipal by-law on noise
restriction.
You can get a free flowing muffler which has virtually the same sound
reduction as stock. Go to anyone who sells Walker mufflers and ask
about the regular (not stainless steel) Dynamax models. They come with
the same lifetime replacement guarantee that muffler shops give. The
Dynamax is slightly larger than the standard muffler for my truck. It
is designed like an extra long glasspack because the exhaust gasses
flow the length of the muffler 3x before they exit. The exhaust
passage has no baffles, just curved deflectors to change the direction
of the exhaust gas as it flows down and up and down and out. They also
sell the matching exhaust pipes which don't have wrinkles at every
bend which decrease the effective diameter as well as increasing the
flow resistance. I installed the complete system myself for about the
same price that I would have paid for an installed economy muffler
system at a regular shop.
--
Don Dickson
Big....@hotmail.com
Lots of talk but little help.
If engine over heats when underload.
1. You of course check that rediator is full when cold after being
run.
2. Water pump might need replacing (not moving the 'water' fast enough
through engine). Rare if not leaking around seal.
3. Engine blook all crapped up and water passages blocked to flow.
4. Radaitor stopped up and needs to be 'rodded' out or disassembled
and cleaned.
5. Engine fan needs to be changed to move more air through radiator.
6. Add a electrical booster fan to increase the air flow through
radiator. (Think this is my first choice). Mount fan in front of
radiator and close to it and tie fan to a temperature switch in water
and let come on when engine is hot.. Shade tree installation is use a
relay controlled from the aux buss and turn on when engine starts and
just let run all the time.
7. If you are in mountains (heavy pulling) in the summer time in the
dessert then change your movement schedule to move at night when it is
cooler. You can start at midnight and drive to 9-10 next morning
before heat comes up until you get to flat land and not require
heavy pulling on engine..
If there are areas you wat to see in daylight and you have the heat
problem, schedule your trips in the spring and/or fall when the
temperatures are more modest.
If all of these fail then park and have a cold beer until it cools off
so you can start again
As a last resort sell and get one that doesn't overheat :-).
And you have good and safe motoring.
Big John
On 21 May 2002 20:22:15 -0700, thed...@earthlink.net (Frank Damp)
wrote:
Paul
leak of a head gasket can lead to overheating. This is from personal
experience! Only overheated in high ambient temps or pulling a long hill.
Never overheated after head gasket change.
Paul
<Big....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ceee0fe...@news.hal-pc.org...
Alan King
>I have a 17 ft. Scotty trailer and am pulling it with a 1994 Silverado
>pick-up. I don't have a towing radiator. I just have the standard one that
>came on it. It runs around 235 degrees when pulling and with the A/C on.
Does it run 235 all the time or does it hit 235 pulling up a hill? Makes a big
difference. Peaking at 235 on a grade isn't a big deal and unless your engine
driven fan is coming on all the way up the hill, the coolant in your radiator
isn't nearly that hot.
>Other than a bigger radiator is there anything I can do to reduce the heat?
>It's not over heating but I'm not wild about it running that hot. It can't
>be good for seals and gaskets.
Don't think "bigger radiator", think "towing radiator". As Neon John's post
explained quite well, bigger radiators often drastically degrade cooling
performance because they choke off air flow. The specs for the towing radiator
for your truck might surprise you. The transmission cooler is a good idea if
you don't already have one and so is towing in third gear if you have 3.42
gears (I am assuming you have a 1/2 ton with a 350 engine). That will keep
your transmission temps down.
Alan King
Dave Strieter
>
> The transmission cooler is a good idea if
> you don't already have one and so is towing in third gear if you have 3.42
> gears (I am assuming you have a 1/2 ton with a 350 engine). That will keep
> your transmission temps down.
>
You say "third gear" as opposed to what? I assume fourth
gear. I have been assuming that using lower gears on the
tranny helps it run cooler when climbing hills. Am I
somewhere near correct?
Thanks!
Dave
bill horne
>
> Alan King wrote:
> >
> > The transmission cooler is a good idea if
> > you don't already have one and so is towing in third gear if you have 3.42
> > gears (I am assuming you have a 1/2 ton with a 350 engine). That will keep
> > your transmission temps down.
> >
> Help me here, as I am also wondering about my tranny temp.
> You say "third gear" as opposed to what?
Overdrive.
> I assume fourth
> gear. I have been assuming that using lower gears on the
> tranny helps it run cooler when climbing hills. Am I
> somewhere near correct?
Yep.
> Thanks!
>
> Dave