Two bear attacks
Greg
"Winston §mith" <NOspa...@1stconnect.com> wrote in message
news:3effdd2f...@news.1stConnect.com...
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0627Grizzly-ON.html
> Grizzly 'tried to kill me,' mountain man says
> The Daily Chronicle
> Associated Press, Jun. 27, 2003 08:20 AM
>
> LIVINGSTON, Mont. - A retired Montana railroader-turned-mountain man
> knew the odds were good he'd have a close encounter with a grizzly
> bear someday while alone in the back country.
>
> "It finally happened," Bob Johnson said Thursday from his hospital bed
> in Livingston. "She tried to kill me."
>
> Johnson said he was attacked by the grizzly in the Tom Miner Basin,
> north of Yellowstone National Park.
>
> He said he couldn't remember how big the bear was. "How can you tell,
> when the (bear) is trying to give you dental work?" he said.
>
> Johnson, 55, remembers grabbing the bear by the nose with both hands
> as it tried to bite his face and throat. And he remembers taking an
> incredibly hard blow to the head. Doctors used 75 staples to reattach
> his scalp to his skull.
>
> He also has a deep gash under his right arm, claw marks on his chest
> and back, bruises all over his body and some deep teeth punctures on
> his left forearm.
>
> Johnson still hobbled several miles to his truck and drove to the a
> guest Ranch for help.
>
> "He was not a pretty sight," said Aaron Davis, the chef at the ranch.
> "That scalp wound was downright gruesome."
>
> Johnson said he was moving quietly through the woods, looking for
> petrified rock and believes he probably awakened the napping female
> grizzly with a cub.
>
> He said he heard a sound, looked up and the bear was coming at him in
> full charge.
>
> "I thought, I'm gonna fight until I die," he said.
>
>
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0627WomanBear27-ON.html
> Woman fights off bear outside home
> Associated Press, Jun. 27, 2003 11:20 AM
>
> BEAUSEJOUR, Manitoba - A woman who fought off a black bear said the
> thought of her son having to watch the animal eat her helped her
> survive.
>
> Diane James, 50, said she began to wonder what would happen if she
> died as she grappled with the bear outside her Beausejour-area home
> Tuesday.
>
> "I thought if this bear kills me, the person who's going to find me
> was my 16-year-old son, and I wasn't about to let my son see this bear
> eating his mom's carcass," James said Thursday while in hospital.
>
> She suffered several injuries in the fight, including a partially
> ripped scalp, a gash below her right eye and numerous lacerations and
> bite marks. Nearly three hours of emergency surgery was needed to
> repair the damage, she said.
>
> "It was absolutely horrible. He tried to rip the scalp off my head and
> he did a pretty good job of it too."
>
> James had just returned home from grocery shopping when she saw the
> bear attacking one of three alpacas the family keeps on its hobby
> farm.
>
> She was trying to call Manitoba Conservation officials on a cordless
> phone when the bear - a yearling about the size of a German shepherd
> and weighing about 50 pounds - saw her and attacked, she said.
>
> "Once he saw me, he came straight at me. He came so fast I was only
> able to take two steps back toward the house before he was on top of
> me."
>
> What followed was a five-minute brawl with a bear seemingly hell-bent
> on killing her, James said. Despite its small size, the bear knocked
> her over, clawing and biting at her head, while she attempted to twist
> its nose to break free.
>
> "He wasn't an ordinary bear," she said. "I know you're supposed to
> play dead if a bear attacks you, but I knew if I played dead with this
> bear that he would kill me."
>
> James eventually got inside and snuck away to her car while the bear
> was preoccupied. She drove to her neighbor's house and was taken to
> hospital while another neighbor returned and found the bear attacking
> the family's border collie.
>
> The neighbor shot the bear dead. Its body was transported to Winnipeg
> for analysis and rabies testing, said provincial black bear manager
> Hank Hristienko.
>
> The dog and one alpaca suffered minor injuries. Another alpaca had to
> be destroyed.
>
> Unprovoked attacks by black bears are rare, said Hristienko. He said
> people who encounter bears should avoid contact at all costs.
>
> "They should be respected for the threat they pose."
>
> Beausejour is about 40 miles northeast of Winnipeg.
>
> --
>
> W§ in m.s - http://members.1stconnect.com/anozira
>
Damn, these people need lessons from tarzalanc about bears and cubs. Just
think, he could have just played happily with the cute li'l cub while momma
watched. She could have played happily with the blackie while everyone else
watched, and then the cute li'l border collie could have joined in. Then
everyone could sing Kumbaya, and Disney will scramble a team to make a
movie.
Greg
Myal
strabo
wrote:
>Makes me glad I only got to worry about kangaroos !
What about dingos?
>"Winston §mith" <NOspa...@1stconnect.com> wrote in message
>news:3effdd2f...@news.1stConnect.com...
>> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0627Grizzly-ON.html
>> Grizzly 'tried to kill me,' mountain man says
>> The Daily Chronicle
>> Associated Press, Jun. 27, 2003 08:20 AM
>>
>> LIVINGSTON, Mont. - A retired Montana railroader-turned-mountain man
>> knew the odds were good he'd have a close encounter with a grizzly
>> bear someday while alone in the back country.
>>
>> "It finally happened," Bob Johnson said Thursday from his hospital bed
>> in Livingston. "She tried to kill me."
>>
<snipped>
strabo
(Winston §mith) wrote:
Neither one carried a knife?
>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0627Grizzly-ON.html
>Grizzly 'tried to kill me,' mountain man says
>The Daily Chronicle
>Associated Press, Jun. 27, 2003 08:20 AM
>LIVINGSTON, Mont. - A retired Montana railroader-turned-mountain man
>knew the odds were good he'd have a close encounter with a grizzly
>bear someday while alone in the back country.
>"It finally happened," Bob Johnson said Thursday from his hospital bed
>in Livingston. "She tried to kill me."
Myal
one from a great height if it feels like it.....
Nothing much though that straight out attacks people , unless they trying to
save an animal from the dogs .....
"strabo" <str...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:76bqfv8seulmjr7al...@4ax.com...
Louis Boyd
it's teeth? About 4 hours ago I had a black bear (brown phase) on my
porch poaching my dog's dinner. They haven't been a problem in the past
but food and water are scarce this year. My dog was barking up a storm
but smart enough to keep her distance. The bear was only about 150 lbs
(guess) and it waddled off when I opened the door. I have no interest
in killing the bear but if it's dumb enough to attack it won't be a fair
fight and I won't have a knife. A black bear is small compared to a
grizzly but even it could do a human real damage if it trys.
I'm trying to decide if I should put out food about a mile from my house
to keep them away. It's the only flowing stream for miles and usually
has juniper berries but they're mostly gone.
--
Lou Boyd
CanopyCo
He did not see the bear before it attacked him.
Even if he had a gun, the bear was on him so fast that he would have had no
time to use it.
The second one, however;
The bear was attacking live stock in her yard, and she goes inside the house
and gets a cordless phone to call the Manitoba Conservation officials instead
of getting a gun. Then she goes outside to make the call?
I would have shot him as soon as I could have laid hands to a gun, and I have a
few that would have taken him down dependably. And I live in Oklahoma where we
do not even have bears. Well, to be honest, we do have mountain lions, which I
fear more then bears.
CanopyCo
<bo...@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> writes:
>I'm trying to decide if I should put out food about a mile from my house
>to keep them away. It's the only flowing stream for miles and usually
>has juniper berries but they're mostly gone.
That sounds like a good idea on the surface, however, do not put it somewhere
you cannot drive to. If you have to walk to it, you are drawing hungry bears to
an area and making them associate humans with food, and then putting yourself
into harms way.
I do not have any experience with bears, and I to would prefer to live and let
live, but as I understand it, now that this bear of yours has gotten the habit
of coming up to your house for food, he will keep upping the ante until someone
gets hurt. I just hope it is him and not you or your visitors or livestock.
Ray Keller
> On 28 Jun 2003 13:24:22 GMT, cano...@aol.com (CanopyCo) wrote:
>
> > The first one I can feel for.
> > He did not see the bear before it attacked him.
> > Even if he had a gun, the bear was on him so fast that he would have had
no
> > time to use it.
> >
> > The second one, however;
> > The bear was attacking live stock in her yard, and she goes inside the
house
> > and gets a cordless phone to call the Manitoba Conservation officials
instead
> > of getting a gun. Then she goes outside to make the call?
>
>
SSS
Shoot
Shovel
Shut up
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
§mith) wrote:
>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0627Grizzly-ON.html
>Grizzly 'tried to kill me,' mountain man says
>The Daily Chronicle
>Associated Press, Jun. 27, 2003 08:20 AM
>
>LIVINGSTON, Mont. - A retired Montana railroader-turned-mountain man
>knew the odds were good he'd have a close encounter with a grizzly
>bear someday while alone in the back country.
>
>"It finally happened," Bob Johnson said Thursday from his hospital bed
>in Livingston. "She tried to kill me."
>
>Johnson said he was attacked by the grizzly in the Tom Miner Basin,
>north of Yellowstone National Park.
>
>He said he couldn't remember how big the bear was. "How can you tell,
>when the (bear) is trying to give you dental work?" he said.
>
>Johnson, 55, remembers grabbing the bear by the nose with both hands
>as it tried to bite his face and throat. And he remembers taking an
>incredibly hard blow to the head. Doctors used 75 staples to reattach
>his scalp to his skull.
>
>He also has a deep gash under his right arm, claw marks on his chest
>and back, bruises all over his body and some deep teeth punctures on
>his left forearm.
>
>Johnson still hobbled several miles to his truck and drove to the a
>guest Ranch for help.
>
>"He was not a pretty sight," said Aaron Davis, the chef at the ranch.
>"That scalp wound was downright gruesome."
>
>Johnson said he was moving quietly through the woods, looking for
>petrified rock and believes he probably awakened the napping female
>grizzly with a cub.
Was he afraid he'd awaken the petrified rocks. I always make noise
while walking in the woods. That's the reason experienced hikers wear
"bells on their toes" to alert the bears so they can leave. I don't
wear bell but do make noise like hollering every once in awhile or
breaking branches. Not too mention the sidearm.
Kirk
"There's a lot to be said
for a blow to the head", BOC.
CanopyCo
(Winston §mith) writes:
>It was Canada, land of serious gun restrictions. 'Nuff said?
There doing that in Canada now?
Fish Poops (Commonly referred to as Bass Turds ;-)
Alan Connor
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:13:36 GMT, NOspa...@1stconnect.com
> (Winston §mith) wrote:
>
>
> Neither one carried a knife?
>
>>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0627Grizzly-ON.html
>>Grizzly 'tried to kill me,' mountain man says
>>The Daily Chronicle
>>Associated Press, Jun. 27, 2003 08:20 AM
>
You are destroying their habitat. You have already destroyed 90%+ of the
Bears that used to dwell in the lower 48.
It is truly amazing that there are not a lot more Bear attacks than there
are.
strabo, you really have to learn a little bit about the real world and quit
believing the bozos in this group and hollywood.
A *KNIFE* against a Grizzly! ! !! !! !
ROTFLMAO
I can hardly wait to watch you guys try to survive without Safeway and Gm and
Kansas City Power and Exxon and Sears.
I love farces.
alanc
Sue
So do we. That's why we enjoy reading yours so much.
Sue - from Alan's killfile - or not
>
>
>alanc
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
Offbreed
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:45:42 GMT, Alan Connor <xxx...@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>strabo, you really have to learn a little bit about the real world and quit
>>believing the bozos in this group and hollywood.
>>
>>A *KNIFE* against a Grizzly! ! !! !! !
Check that guy in Montana that killed one with a broken arrow.
Of course, he was an experienced butcher, so he knew where to cut.
The feds tried to bring charges against him for killing a protected
species. Never heard how it turned out.
strabo
<bo...@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote:
>Carry a knife with grizzly's around? For what? So the bear can pick
>it's teeth? About 4 hours ago I had a black bear (brown phase) on my
>porch poaching my dog's dinner. They haven't been a problem in the past
>but food and water are scarce this year. My dog was barking up a storm
>but smart enough to keep her distance. The bear was only about 150 lbs
>(guess) and it waddled off when I opened the door. I have no interest
>in killing the bear but if it's dumb enough to attack it won't be a fair
>fight and I won't have a knife. A black bear is small compared to a
>grizzly but even it could do a human real damage if it trys.
My comment, as you well know, was in reference to both bear
fighters having to use their fists. 8 to 10 inches of steel
would have been more effective.
>I'm trying to decide if I should put out food about a mile from my house
>to keep them away. It's the only flowing stream for miles and usually
>has juniper berries but they're mostly gone.
Under the circumstances I would. At least a mile. I can't think
of a downside since they have no choice but to survive. Since
bears have a lot of protected territory it would probably not
attract many and it might keep them off your place. Course you'll
have to avoid putting out food or water for the dog.
Any rain in the foreseeable future?
strabo
>The first one I can feel for.
>He did not see the bear before it attacked him.
>Even if he had a gun, the bear was on him so fast that he would have had no
>time to use it.
>
>The second one, however;
>The bear was attacking live stock in her yard, and she goes inside the house
>and gets a cordless phone to call the Manitoba Conservation officials instead
>of getting a gun. Then she goes outside to make the call?
That's Canada.
>I would have shot him as soon as I could have laid hands to a gun, and I have a
>few that would have taken him down dependably. And I live in Oklahoma where we
>do not even have bears. Well, to be honest, we do have mountain lions, which I
>fear more then bears.
Yep, you've killed all your bears.
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
<bo...@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote:
>Carry a knife with grizzly's around? For what? So the bear can pick
>it's teeth? About 4 hours ago I had a black bear (brown phase) on my
>porch poaching my dog's dinner. They haven't been a problem in the past
>but food and water are scarce this year. My dog was barking up a storm
>but smart enough to keep her distance. The bear was only about 150 lbs
>(guess) and it waddled off when I opened the door. I have no interest
>in killing the bear but if it's dumb enough to attack it won't be a fair
>fight and I won't have a knife. A black bear is small compared to a
>grizzly but even it could do a human real damage if it trys.
>
>I'm trying to decide if I should put out food about a mile from my house
>to keep them away. It's the only flowing stream for miles and usually
>has juniper berries but they're mostly gone.
The common tactic if a bear has been raiding garbage and the like is
to kill it as it will not change it's habits. Keep your dogs food
inside unless it's eating it.
Some idiots around here actually put food out for the bears since they
are so cute. Guess where they moved from?
Kirk
"Moe, Larry, the cheese!", Curly
Condor Chef
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:45:42 GMT, Alan Connor <xxx...@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
quit
> > believing the bozos in this group and hollywood.
> >
> > A *KNIFE* against a Grizzly! ! !! !! !
> >
> > ROTFLMAO
>
No, AlanC would have cuddled with the cub, and when the sow saw how nicely
they played together, she would have adopted him as one of her own. Then
they could frolic in the forest forever after...
CC
Alan Connor
I do spend much of my time frolicing in the forest, although Grizzlies are
rare in these parts. Plenty of Black Bears though, and we get along fine.
I sure wish I could find one of you here that had the guts to do anything
but run your ignorant and juvenile mouths.
I'd be happy to meet any of you anywhere you want and have a little survival
contest.
You can have anything you can carry on your back and I will go naked.
3 months later we will see who is in the best shape and has the nicest digs
and clothes and the biggest store of food for the winter.
But the truth is that most of you couldn't last 2 weeks without a cabin full
of supplies and a chainsaw and a vehicle.
When that stuff is used up or wears out you are dead meat.
So mock if you will, it just makes you look stupider than you already do, if
such a thing is possible.
Now I am going to go frolic in the forest. It's right outside the door. I know
that you THINK it is YOUR national forest, but it ain't.
We don't allow vehicles, hunting, trapping, or horses/mules etc, anywhere near
here. American laws do not have any meaning here. WE make the laws and enforce
them without ever revealing that a human agency is involved.
The hunter follows false trails until he is exhausted. The four-wheeler has
his tires spiked by what looks like an ancient scrap of iron from an old tool.
The wood-cutter finds the road blocked by a washed-out culvert that was 'accidentally' blocked during the last storm.
heehee.
Mock if you want to, but we have taken back some of the lands you stole from
the Native Americans and the rest of the beings that lived here before you
arrived. And we take more and more every year. In little tiny pieces spread out
all over the place. But a lot of littles make a big, don't you know.....
alanc killfiles another ignorant bigot
Noah Simoneaux
>On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:55:01 +1000, "Myal" <dum...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Makes me glad I only got to worry about kangaroos !
>
>What about dingos?
And crocodiles?
(snip)
The fates lead the willing, and drag the unwilling. - Seneca
Noah Simoneaux
(snip)
>I would have shot him as soon as I could have laid hands to a gun, and I have a
>few that would have taken him down dependably. And I live in Oklahoma where we
>do not even have bears. Well, to be honest, we do have mountain lions, which I
>fear more then bears.
Ah, you have mountain lions over there? Here in Arkansas the Game and Fish
people claim there are NO mountain lions here. A friend of mine returned home a
couple of months ago to find the body of his sister-in-law. She was dead and
partially eaten. All the evidence he's seen points to it being a big cat attack.
There are paw prints in the area as well as the distinctive wounds caused by a
big cat. The local law enforcement people claim it was his own dogs which killed
her, but they have dropped the effort to charge him(for now) and returned his
dogs to him. He's still working on proving there's a mountain lion in the area,
but they are hassling him enough to make him think of moving out of the area.
I'm thinking of going to his place and helping him stake out this "non-existant"
mountain lion. They couldn't prosecute you for shooting a mountain lion if there
are NO mountain lions in the state, could they? ;)
Noah Simoneaux
>On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:53:50 -0400, strabo <str...@flashmail.com> wrote:
(snip)
strabo, Are you not in analc's killfile yet? What's wrong with you?
(snip)
>strabo, you really have to learn a little bit about the real world and quit
>believing the bozos in this group and hollywood.
Ooh, good advice from analc. ;)
>
>A *KNIFE* against a Grizzly! ! !! !! !
Yeah, you'd have a MUCH better chance against a grizzly barehanded. ;)
>
>
>ROTFLMAO
>
>
>I can hardly wait to watch you guys try to survive without Safeway and Gm and
>Kansas City Power and Exxon and Sears.
You'll have to wait, Sweetpea. Of course, you'd never survive long enough to
watch anybody else do anything.
>
>I love farces.
We know.
Myal
>
quit
> > believing the bozos in this group and hollywood.
> >
> > A *KNIFE* against a Grizzly! ! !! !! !
> >
> > ROTFLMAO
>
-Of course he wouldn consider a gun !
an Amazon with a blow gun would be more his style , He would hide from the
bear behind the chickybabe while she shoots the bear with her trust dart
thingo like she did FABU in the begining of his acid trip , ooops , wildwood
expirience .
Myal
( pondering alanc blowing a bears dart )
>
> Reminds me of the story of the two guys that found themselves the
> attention of a mad bear. The one guy stoops down and tightens his
> boot laces. The other guy says, "You don't think you can out run it,
> do you?" The first guy answers, "I only have to out run you."
Myal
"Noah Simoneaux" <noa...@there.com> wrote in message
news:3efe5af6...@news.ritternet.com...
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:51:42 -0400, strabo <str...@flashmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:55:01 +1000, "Myal" <dum...@hotmail.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Makes me glad I only got to worry about kangaroos !
> >
> >What about dingos?
>
> And crocodiles?
If I go 1500 or so km north , I would worry about them again , I havent been
up that way for a long long time , so I guess I kinda forgot about them :-)
Mosquitoes bite bad up there too .
Myal
Gunner
>
>I do spend much of my time frolicing in the forest, although Grizzlies are
>rare in these parts. Plenty of Black Bears though, and we get along fine.
>
>I sure wish I could find one of you here that had the guts to do anything
>but run your ignorant and juvenile mouths.
>
>I'd be happy to meet any of you anywhere you want and have a little survival
>contest.
>
>You can have anything you can carry on your back and I will go naked.
>
>3 months later we will see who is in the best shape and has the nicest digs
>and clothes and the biggest store of food for the winter.
Its a deal. The territory will be Watts, California.
Though you might win, if you live. Some of the bloods might like to
have a naked white boy to have around. Consult your proctologist
before showing up. I suspect the natives will make a checkup common
sense.
Gunner
"...and biotechnology is a worry. What if they take genetic material from wet noodles and blowfish and splice it into politician chromosomes and create a Clinton administration?" -- P.J. Rourke, All the trouble in the world. The lighter side of famine, pestilence, destruction and death.
North
North
cowlum
hahahahahaha what a fool.
Sue
Noting that I can see. Is it me or did you have a problem when
posting? I've tried to look at about 5 or 6 or your posts and there's
nothing there. Hmmm.
Sue
Offbreed
> Some idiots around here actually put food out for the bears since they
> are so cute. Guess where they moved from?
Gee, wonder what would happen if "someone" wrapped a chunk of frozen
bacon grease in a paper towel and tossed it on top their roof some morning?
CanopyCo
Simoneaux) writes:
I am sorry to hear about your friend.
Did anyone photograph the tracks?
If so, JPG them and post them.
They are distinctive enough to tell them from dog tracks.
The fact that they returned the dogs shows that they know that the dogs did not
do it.
I know about the lions around here mostly due to them screaming.
Sure cure for constipation is to have one of them scream while I am out at
night :-/
Louis Boyd
In my neighborhood the ravens or coatis would carry it off before noon.
The bears would never get a chance.
--
Lou Boyd
Sue
§mith) wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:55:58 GMT, Sue <seb...@thegrid.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:15:24 -0400, North <nor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Noting that I can see. Is it me or did you have a problem when
>> posting? I've tried to look at about 5 or 6 or your posts and there's
>> nothing there. Hmmm.
>> Sue
>
>Same here. I'll bet computer wizard AlanC is messing with all our
>computers by hydrogen powered remote control.
LOL I figured it out when I read an earlier post North made. He was
doing this to post them on that Linux group. Since I read bottom to
top I hadn't seen the reference when I posted this.
Sue
North
>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:15:24 -0400, North <nor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Noting that I can see. Is it me or did you have a problem when
>posting? I've tried to look at about 5 or 6 or your posts and there's
>nothing there. Hmmm.
>Sue
No problem, I just crossposted Alan's post over to alt.idiots
I felt that he would be right at home over in alt.idiots
North
lol....Yes I forgot that I've been posting his crap to alt.linux also.
Noah Simoneaux
(snip)
>I am sorry to hear about your friend.
>Did anyone photograph the tracks?
They did better than that, I think. I'm pretty sure they made castings and took
them to a wildlife expert. He told them it was a BIG mountain lion.
>If so, JPG them and post them.
>They are distinctive enough to tell them from dog tracks.
>
>The fact that they returned the dogs shows that they know that the dogs did not
>do it.
>
>I know about the lions around here mostly due to them screaming.
>Sure cure for constipation is to have one of them scream while I am out at
>night :-/
I'm going to go camping at this guy's place tomorrow for at least one night,
maybe two. I plan on bringing plenty of firepower in case I see anything. Of
course, I couldn't shoot any mountain lions if I see one, since there are NONE
in Arkansas. ;)
Anyway, a reward has been offered for any dead mountain lions in that area.
My friend has been worried about more attacks since this happened, and he's
right now in North Carolina looking at possibly moving there. He could tolerate
having mountain lions in this area, but he's having difficulty tolerating the
way the locals have treated them since the killing.
Anyone who thinks there is some good in everyone hasn't interviewed enough people.
Eastman's Personnel Director's Law
Bob G
>I do spend much of my time frolicing in the forest, although Grizzlies are
>rare in these parts. Plenty of Black Bears though, and we get along fine.
Hmmm, Alan, I want to stay out of any flame wars.
But really am curious as to how you seem to have so much free time to
be on the Net so much, and to "frolic" in the woods.
Chuckle, I've been in many woods, forests, and junngles and don't
recall ever "frolicing" ... except when I may have had an adult
beverage or 3 too many. The rest of the time common sense dictated
otherwise as if one was not paying attention and was instead
frolicing, one ended up with a twisted ankle, falling on one's face,
running into thorny bushes or beehives, etc. And, generally, got ate
up by insects. I usually reserved my frolicing for open fields or
other such clearings.
Of course, if one's only experience with woods, forests, and jungles
is staying in carefully groomed park areas, or on groomed hiking
trails, I could imagine one might think "frolicing" in the woods is
easy and pleasant.
Chuckle, don't bother to say it, Alan. I know, I am one of those
"know nothings" you so often rave against.
>I sure wish I could find one of you here that had the guts to do anything
>but run your ignorant and juvenile mouths.
Well, I must admit, more than a few of these threads do seem juvenile.
But that's humans for you. We all sometimes reert to juvenile
actions.
But, how about the idea that you respond with calm and rationality?
Try it. Costs nothing.
Some of the points you've made in your posts are quite good. But then
you persist in ... shall we say ... stretching things a bit?
Elaborating? Try this. Don't spout off about those things you know
little about, or nothing about. Stick with what you do know and have
thought through. You let your emotions overrule your mind, too often.
>I'd be happy to meet any of you anywhere you want and have a little survival
>contest.
>
>You can have anything you can carry on your back and I will go naked.
>
Hmmmm. Northern Minnesota, in February? Let's say ... Embarass, MN?
Ever feel minus 20 to minus 60 degrees Fahrenheit on your bare skin,
Alan?
Have any idea how long you have to live when naked at such
temperatures? Think you'll find a lot of vegetation you can use for
clothing in that place at that time ... before you freeze? Before you
loose the use of your hands?
Easy to brag, Alan. Much harder to DO.
I was not naked, but I and a cousin fell thru the ice once at about
-20 degrees Fahrenheit. Took a few minutes to get out, I can't
remember how many ... seemed forever. Once we did, it was only, ohhhh
(it's been a long time) perhaps 100, at a minimum, to 150 yards to his
home. That's not far at all. But by the time we got to the door
neither of us could operate our hands well enough to operate a stupid
door knob.
Are you quite sure yah wanna make this bet?
>3 months later we will see who is in the best shape and has the nicest digs
>and clothes and the biggest store of food for the winter.
On my turf ... I'll have the most food. Plain and simple. Now, put
me in Gunner's home turf, and I'd make no such bet. I'd be spending a
lot of time learning from scratch, and ... hopefully ... surviving my
mistakes. Almost certainly he'd win that contest.
Chuckle ... "nicest digs" .... ROFLMAO. In a survival contest of only
3 months, who cares? I can live in a hole in the ground for 3 months.
3 months is nothing, nothing at all. I can put up with almost
anything for 3 lousy months.
Alan, no slam at yah intended, but you talk like someone with dreams
... but also someone who has not actually DONE much. Chuckle, I've
spent years learning a single skill well. And I have several skills.
>But the truth is that most of you couldn't last 2 weeks without a cabin full
>of supplies and a chainsaw and a vehicle.
I can hold my breath for 2 weeks, Alan.
You understand allegory or metaphor, I hope.
>When that stuff is used up or wears out you are dead meat.
Hmmm. Actually, with what I'd bring, by the time it was used up or
wore out, I'd have had time to find or make replacements, Alan.
That's why I'd call it a "survival kit", rather than a "For the whole
of my life kit".
That is, after all, the idea of a survival kit. Something to give you
an advantage over having nothing at all. Something to buy you time to
to extricate yourself from a bad situation, tide you over during a
period time without outside supplies or help, or give you something to
start with i order to improve your situation.
I don't recall anyone in this group ever saying that a BOB was gonna
contain all they'd ever need for the rest of their lives.
Alan, I was about 9 years old before the home I was raised in had
electricity. Well, we had truck or tractor battey that the elders
used to hook up to a radio so we could listen to the Saturday baseball
games.
Believe it or not, you are not the only person who knows how to "make
do".
Chuckle, look at Baghdad. Even the majority of the modern citizens of
that city, while uncomfortable, and grouchy, did manage to figure out
how to "make do", when they had to. Certainly, in some cases they
probably had to seek an elder, or a recently "moved to the city"
commoner who knew how to actually use his or her hands, how to jury
rig, how to make do, etc. But there are usually such around. This
person knows a bit of this, another knows a bit of that. A smart
person listens and asks questions, then puts it all together. And
arrives at a solution.
Things fell apart over there. Soooo. what happened, Alan?
I do seem to remember news report that the U.S. Army had some guys at
a generating plant which was a mess. Trying to figure out how to get
it running again. They had some knowledgeable people. not enough, and
certaily no oe familiar with THOSE particular plants. What happened?
The majority of Baghdad people didn't know a damn thing about
generators. They were lost puppies. But, while a large number of
those who did know about such things had either died or ran off. Some
were still around. They stepped forward and offered to help. The
Army, contrary to popular opinion, not being total idiots, accepted
the help. It was never said on the news but I'm willing to bet they
made sure those fellows' families were relatively safe and had enough
food. And medical aid if they needed it. Those Iraqi fellows were
perhaps traitors? LOLOL. Maybe some would view them that way. As
for myself I'd bet they each soul searched. And decided, while unsure
whether the U.S. Army being there was a good thing or not ... that
people arguing and bickering about politics and rights or wrongs was
all well and good. BUT ... the important thing was to get the
generators running again. Argue politics later. Get the generators
running NOW.
I've been one of THEM, Alan. Frankly, I am so tired of two extremes
on either side of a stupid argument bickering, I could scream. Or
just want to lock and load and commence firing to my left and to my
right. Kill em all, let God sort em out. As some would say.
I'd bet my last dollar that MOST of the guys who went back to those
generators and got them started did so because they were thinking of
their own families, PLUS neighbors and friends ... not about politics.
They wanted to get the water treatment plants going, some light so
neighborhoods could band together and drive out lowly thieves, etc.
Think it'd be any different in a TEOTWAWKI situation, Alan?
I'd bet it won't. It may well be chaos for a time. Many may well
die.
But I'd still bet that there will be those with actual, real knowlege
... not dreams and fantasies .... who will step forward, possessing
the basic skills needed. Who'll start in doing what they know how to
do. Unafraid to sweat. For themselves and their own families, of
course. But also with their friends and neighbors in mind. Politics,
and ideology be damned.
Just the way it is. The way I see it, Alan.
Perhaps I'm wrong, Certainly I could be. But I do not think so.
Too many of my friends and aquaintances, young and old, when pressed
for their thoughts, in the final analysis ... just want to be left
alone. Just want to see their loved ones happy and smiling. Just
want to feel that the are contributing something.
Even the most MODEST people I know, Alan. People of low mental
ability and skills, smile their widest ... not when they GET
something, Alan. Not when they prove themselves BETTER than someone
else. They smile their widest ... and most beautiful ... when they are
praised for GIVING something. Even when, he or she is at his or her
neediest. I've personally seen this too many times to doubt it.
Alan, You are trying to crow like a cock ... and I am not impressed.
STOP YAKKING and shooting off your mouth.
Wanna impress me?
Shut your mouth and go help a friend. Rub an elder's feet. Make a
remarkable, GOOD knife ... and give it to someone with no knife at
all. And show the person how to use it properly. Hug a crying woman,
who is heartbroke and vulnerable. One who makes your dick so hard it
feels like it'll burst. But just hug, even when she tries to give
herself to you. Just hug. And remind her that she is not safe to
make the same offer some other time. (yah gotta make her feel as if
she's wanted ... or you are a cad.)
Just be like a good friend of mine. A good man. All he's ever wanted
was a wife and companion to love. But has never had any good luck at
choosing such. I KNOW his thoughts and dreams, Alan. He and I have
spent too much time together. Some of that time under difficulties
you can not even imagine. A quite ordinary man. Nothing special
about him. Chuckle, when we are together and get up in the morning I
greet him with my usual, "Whew, DAMN ... do yah got to look so UGLY
first thing in the morning?"
Understand, if it was a matter of my life or his ... I'd willingly
risk death. He's my friend. Once upon a time, many miles away he
saved my ass and I saved his. Since, anythime he was in need, if I
could ... at all ... I came. And vice versa.
It's a friendship THAT tight, Alan.
<Sigh> He's quite an ordinary fellow, Alan. Not one damn thing
special about him. <G> And he's ugly, to boot.
<Frown> Then he married the first bitch. Who took him for every dime
he had. And he had a few. He's not a man afraid of hard work. And
his needs and wants are simple. Did I mention we are friends ... and
blood brothers. Feed him almost anything that involved some effort on
your part ... and he'd adore you. (Talking about women, he's not into
men)
Chuckle, not at all surprising. You might be surprsied at how many
people; male and female; I meet who just LOVE home cooked meals.
In any event, I will take the blame for advising him to ditch the
bitch. And I'll make no apologies or excuses.
<Grrrrr> Given my own way, with no laws, I'd have slit her throat like
a pig and barbequed her the same way.
HE wouldn't have that, of course. But he did ditch her.
He's married a second time, now. To a rock. An airhead. Yah know,
one of those people who have no brain activity detectible on the most
sensitive instruments known to mankind, Unless the eyes detect a
"Sale" sign. In which case her attitude more remsembles a white shark
smelling fresh blood.
Even if she does not need it ... has no need for it .... has no idea
what to do with it ... if there is a sign saying "Sale" and yah place
a limb between her and the "sale" sign ... you risk traumatic
amputation.
And when there is no shopping in the immediate future? Yah might as
well tie a line around a rock and drag it behind you. Same effect.
He found her in California. Of course. Such exist elsewhere. But
seem to exist in an over abundance, in Tim Land. Seem to be the
predominate species. I'd have to agree as I lived there a total of
around 12 years.
LOLOL ....
But, my friend is himself. And doesn't give a rip what others think.
Not even me, and I respect that.
He's determined. She's his WIFE .. and supposed to be his best friend
and companion.
ROFLMAO .... for many a year, I could not stand her. She's a rock. A
self interested rock. He kept trying, to show her the way. Despite
... her rockness.
Now ... this past spring, he had a heart attack ... Shhhssshhh ... he
does not admit this. But he did.
The new Bitch, slapped her bitching kids (all over 18) and stood by
him every moment.
I saw her tears. She loved. I cried. She is now a friend.
If you do not understand, Alan, the 2 kids she gave him when they grew
older tried to suck him dry. Lazy BUMS, with lots of lousy excuses to
be BUMS, they could not hold down jobs or make their own way. Always
made EXCUSES. I have NO tolerance for excuses, Alan. My childhood
was as bad and disvadantaged as ANYONES'. I call BULLSHIT. If I
could do it, anyone could do it.
As did my very good friend. Who had no good youth.
Those of YOU Alan, who cry and sob and make excuses for yourselves, I
have no sorrow for.
There is a story here, Alan..
Perhaps I do not make it well.
In any event, we are diametrictly opposed.
Not a battle, I do not wish battle. I only wish for my kids to grow
and smile. Be happy. I only wish to hop my wife's bones one more
time. As I am convinced ... I'll die long before she. If nothing
else, I wish to leave her smiling in fond memories. What else can one
ask?
On average, Alan. The men on my side of the family ... have not lived
long. In fact ... I'm sucking. I'm over due.
Oh well.
When I die, I die.
In the meantime. There are two specific kids, among the several we
take care of on an on and off basis ... who I'd give my all to.
And so it is written. (not mysticism, Tim. I have a legal will)
When you die, Alan, as you surely will ... as each of us surely will
...
Who will weep and remember you?
TELL me, Alan, what you've done for others? You've certainly bragged
about yourself. Which impresses me ... not at all.
What have yah done for others? Without expecting something in return?
Impress me, Alan, I'm waiting.
>
>So mock if you will, it just makes you look stupider than you already do, if
>such a thing is possible.
I'm not mocking, Alan. I don't wish to mock you.
I just wish you to look beyond the words you spout.
>Now I am going to go frolic in the forest. It's right outside the door. I know
>that you THINK it is YOUR national forest, but it ain't.
LOLOL .....
>We don't allow vehicles, hunting, trapping, or horses/mules etc, anywhere near
>here. American laws do not have any meaning here. WE make the laws and enforce
>them without ever revealing that a human agency is involved.
Hmmm.
Yah think that YOU are smarter than EVERY other human, Alan?
Oh my.
I'm pretty smart. But not nearly that smart.
Yah must be pretty awesome ... Dude.
>
>The hunter follows false trails until he is exhausted. The four-wheeler has
>his tires spiked by what looks like an ancient scrap of iron from an old tool.
>The wood-cutter finds the road blocked by a washed-out culvert that was 'accidentally' blocked during the last storm.
>
>heehee.
Please take no offense, but so far all you've said reminds me of the
words of a mentally retarded 17 year old we used to care for.
He, too, used to follow the various fantasy games and began to think
they were real.
But ... Alan ... he only had an IQ barely below 70.
You're quoting lines out of a fantasy game.
Trust me, if I come for you ... I'm not gonna follow some GameBoy
script.
>Mock if you want to, but we have taken back some of the lands you stole from
>the Native Americans and the rest of the beings that lived here before you
>arrived. And we take more and more every year. In little tiny pieces spread out
>all over the place. But a lot of littles make a big, don't you know.....
Hmmmm.
Now, let's see. I'm Native American. But then, again, some call me
an Apple. So perhaps that doesn't count.
But, I am an engineer. I DO understand basic math.
And for a great many years, I was a hands on mechanic and technician.
So I would suggest I have at least a LITTLE common horse sense. (I
know bullshit when I step in it)
And my reading comprehension score ... is fair to middling. (Not
shabby for those of you from California)
Last that I read, Alan, and I DO subscirbe to DNR pubs, YEP, a lot of
wild lands were being recovered.
BECAUSE ... a lot of us EVIL, mean, souless, NASTY pople you speak
about, Alan ... have done more than TALK. As YOU do. and seemingly no
more than that.
We've put our money ....therefore our work, effort, sweat ... into
BUYING land from the rightful owners, for a fair price. Gone out and
sweated, cleaning up the land that those who "froliced" thru it
dirtied and thrashed, Bent our BACKS, and sweated to dig at and hoe.
shovel and dig ... to make new habitats to replace those which where
destroyed.
Alan, In the past 12 yars since I've retired from the Navy, I'd guess
that I've probably set up at a minimum, several hundred, possibly a
couple thousand bird houses and wood duck nests. And have cleaned up
a few hundred acres of trashed marsh lands.
WHAT ... have you got off your lazy ass and done, Alan? Besides talk?
I am, personaly, sick and tired of you TALKERS. All you folks do is
shoot off your mouths.
I haven't seen yah at any of the several lakes I go to, where I help
the DNR folks take surveys, clean up crap, etc.
You talk, talk, talk. You protest and condemn others.
What do you DO, Alan?
And don't feed me bullshit about making a complete set of clothing ...
proper clothing ... in an hour or two. BTDT, Alan, ain't possible.
YOU name the place and the time. This is something I know more than a
little about. I wanna see you take a raw plant and make it into
clothing suitable to protect one from cold and wet and scrapes in a
hours or so as you've claimed.
Ever studied history, Alan?
Of course not why do I ask?
In any event, the very reason the U.S. doallar was originally called a
"buck" was because it represented a low level of exchange. A basic
unit of exchange, at the time was a "buckskin". Wanted and needed
because a trouser made of buckskin held up better and longer than any
vegetable based cloth known at the time.
Heck, the BUCKskin was even in demand in Europe. Look at some of the
pictures of European nobility during the late 1700's, early 1800's.
The yellow, yellow-brown, and brown trowsers worn by many of the
European nobility in that time frame ... were originally N American
whitetail deer.
In the later 1800's, a certain fellow finally figured out how to make
a machine made cloth that approached the toughness, and ... at the
same time the comfortability of the "buck" .... His name was Levi.
Alan, you're depth of knowledge lacks ... lacks a lot.
I do trust that your intentions are honest.
I believe you are ernest ... not so convinced you are honest.
Bob
Noah Simoneaux
>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:55:58 GMT, Sue <seb...@thegrid.net> said:
>
>>On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:15:24 -0400, North <nor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Noting that I can see. Is it me or did you have a problem when
>>posting? I've tried to look at about 5 or 6 or your posts and there's
>>nothing there. Hmmm.
>>Sue
>No problem, I just crossposted Alan's post over to alt.idiots
>I felt that he would be right at home over in alt.idiots
Do you think he could qualify on the intelligence tests? ;)
I wouldn't bet on it.
(snip)
Jason Sheppard
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:18:24 GMT, Condor Chef <condo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Winston §mith" <NOspa...@1stconnect.com> wrote in message
> > news:3eff2d7d...@news.1stConnect.com...
> >> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:45:42 GMT, Alan Connor <xxx...@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> > strabo, you really have to learn a little bit about the real world and
> quit
> >> > believing the bozos in this group and hollywood.
> >> >
> >> > A *KNIFE* against a Grizzly! ! !! !! !
> >> >
> >> > ROTFLMAO
> >>
> >> Are you suggesting something more deadly? Perhaps {horrors} a gun?
> >
> > No, AlanC would have cuddled with the cub, and when the sow saw how nicely
> > they played together, she would have adopted him as one of her own. Then
> > they could frolic in the forest forever after...
> >
> >
> > CC
> >
> >
>
>
> I do spend much of my time frolicing in the forest, although Grizzlies are
> rare in these parts. Plenty of Black Bears though, and we get along fine.
>
> I sure wish I could find one of you here that had the guts to do anything
> but run your ignorant and juvenile mouths.
>
> I'd be happy to meet any of you anywhere you want and have a little survival
> contest.
Great, I was dying to accept your challenge for out west but I'll be
damned if I'm spending time and money getting there for you to
no-show. We'll start when you arrive at my door. There's a National
forest not too far from here. I'm easy to find but if you're
overdrawn on your 1/300th time share of the computer, then I'll point
you in the right direction via e-mail (but you'll have to take me off
your vaunted kinda-sorta-maybe killfile cum e-mail filter first).
>
> You can have anything you can carry on your back and I will go naked.
No, really, bring some clothes. I'll spot you that much to avoid
seeing you naked.
>
> 3 months later we will see who is in the best shape and has the nicest digs
> and clothes and the biggest store of food for the winter.
>
> But the truth is that most of you couldn't last 2 weeks without a cabin full
> of supplies and a chainsaw and a vehicle.
>
> When that stuff is used up or wears out you are dead meat.
>
> So mock if you will, it just makes you look stupider than you already do, if
> such a thing is possible.
>
> Now I am going to go frolic in the forest. It's right outside the door. I know
> that you THINK it is YOUR national forest, but it ain't.
Who's peddling the generator FABU? Penny maybe? I'm guessing that
"newer Gateway with a 686" is a bit of a power hog, so I bet she's
pedaling her little buns off. Did you make the generator yourself or
was it purchased?
>
> We don't allow vehicles, hunting, trapping, or horses/mules etc, anywhere near
> here. American laws do not have any meaning here. WE make the laws and enforce
> them without ever revealing that a human agency is involved.
>
> The hunter follows false trails until he is exhausted. The four-wheeler has
> his tires spiked by what looks like an ancient scrap of iron from an old tool.
> The wood-cutter finds the road blocked by a washed-out culvert that was 'accidentally' blocked during the last storm.
>
> heehee.
>
> Mock if you want to, but we have taken back some of the lands you stole from
> the Native Americans and the rest of the beings that lived here before you
> arrived. And we take more and more every year. In little tiny pieces spread out
> all over the place. But a lot of littles make a big, don't you know.....
>
>
> alanc killfiles another ignorant bigot
is that the same kinda sorta maybe but you'll never know killfile as
the rest of us are in?
Jason - from the only killfile that people are begging to be let
into(cite on request)
Alan Connor
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 03:12:24 GMT, Alan Connor <xxx...@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>>I do spend much of my time frolicing in the forest, although Grizzlies are
>>rare in these parts. Plenty of Black Bears though, and we get along fine.
>
> Hmmm, Alan, I want to stay out of any flame wars.
>
> But really am curious as to how you seem to have so much free time to
> be on the Net so much, and to "frolic" in the woods.
Here we deal with one the myths that sustains your society: That your way of
life provides more leisure time than any other lifestyle. Bunk. And that you
have any at all comes from your exploitation of other peoples.
I grow all of my food on about 1/10 acre of land and spend less time growing,
harvesting and processing it than the average American spends shopping.
>
> Chuckle, I've been in many woods, forests, and junngles and don't
> recall ever "frolicing" ... except when I may have had an adult
> beverage or 3 too many.
:-) We brew some fine beer ourselves. There is a native Hops that grows
throughout much of the Inland West. Many tribes made flour from the "cones."
It has simple rather than compound leaves and smaller "cones", but is otherwise
much the same.
The rest of the time common sense dictated
> otherwise as if one was not paying attention and was instead
> frolicing, one ended up with a twisted ankle, falling on one's face,
> running into thorny bushes or beehives, etc. And, generally, got ate
> up by insects. I usually reserved my frolicing for open fields or
> other such clearings.
>
> Of course, if one's only experience with woods, forests, and jungles
> is staying in carefully groomed park areas, or on groomed hiking
> trails, I could imagine one might think "frolicing" in the woods is
> easy and pleasant.
>
> Chuckle, don't bother to say it, Alan. I know, I am one of those
> "know nothings" you so often rave against.
By admitting it you have placed yourself above that crowd, Bob.
The Woods hold no fears for me and those of us who live in and WITH them.
Nature is Good and we are a part of Nature. And Nature is based on cooperation.
Respect the rights of the other denizens of the Woods and they will respect
yours. Humans are on no other creature's native menu.
>
>>I sure wish I could find one of you here that had the guts to do anything
>>but run your ignorant and juvenile mouths.
>
> Well, I must admit, more than a few of these threads do seem juvenile.
> But that's humans for you. We all sometimes reert to juvenile
> actions.
>
> But, how about the idea that you respond with calm and rationality?
> Try it. Costs nothing.
>
> Some of the points you've made in your posts are quite good. But then
> you persist in ... shall we say ... stretching things a bit?
> Elaborating? Try this. Don't spout off about those things you know
> little about, or nothing about. Stick with what you do know and have
> thought through. You let your emotions overrule your mind, too often.
What I claim to know something about, I know something about, whether this
knowledge tallies with your BELIEFS or not.
>
>>I'd be happy to meet any of you anywhere you want and have a little survival
>>contest.
>>
>>You can have anything you can carry on your back and I will go naked.
>>
> Hmmmm. Northern Minnesota, in February? Let's say ... Embarass, MN?
>
> Ever feel minus 20 to minus 60 degrees Fahrenheit on your bare skin,
> Alan?
>
Anyplace in the Pacific Northwest that is reasonable wild.
It gets down to -40 here. Occassionally.
> Have any idea how long you have to live when naked at such
> temperatures? Think you'll find a lot of vegetation you can use for
> clothing in that place at that time ... before you freeze? Before you
> loose the use of your hands?
I can do it with plant materials one HELL of a lot faster than anyone can do
it with animal skins.
Yes, I think I could walk out into the Winter Mountains, naked, and survive
just fine. Would not want to put it to the test, though. But I know lots of
people who have. They are my Teachers.
>
> Easy to brag, Alan. Much harder to DO.
You are calling me a liar with no evidence to back up that accusation.
Do it again and I will killfile you.
>
> I was not naked, but I and a cousin fell thru the ice once at about
> -20 degrees Fahrenheit. Took a few minutes to get out, I can't
> remember how many ... seemed forever. Once we did, it was only, ohhhh
> (it's been a long time) perhaps 100, at a minimum, to 150 yards to his
> home. That's not far at all. But by the time we got to the door
> neither of us could operate our hands well enough to operate a stupid
> door knob.
>
> Are you quite sure yah wanna make this bet?
Anytime.
>
>>3 months later we will see who is in the best shape and has the nicest digs
>>and clothes and the biggest store of food for the winter.
>
> On my turf ... I'll have the most food. Plain and simple. Now, put
> me in Gunner's home turf, and I'd make no such bet. I'd be spending a
> lot of time learning from scratch, and ... hopefully ... surviving my
> mistakes. Almost certainly he'd win that contest.
>
> Chuckle ... "nicest digs" .... ROFLMAO. In a survival contest of only
> 3 months, who cares? I can live in a hole in the ground for 3 months.
> 3 months is nothing, nothing at all. I can put up with almost
> anything for 3 lousy months.
>
> Alan, no slam at yah intended, but you talk like someone with dreams
> ... but also someone who has not actually DONE much. Chuckle, I've
> spent years learning a single skill well. And I have several skills.
>
>>But the truth is that most of you couldn't last 2 weeks without a cabin full
>>of supplies and a chainsaw and a vehicle.
>
I have deleted the rest of this without reading it because you are just not
being reasonable.
I will meet you anyplace in the PNW that is wild, and we will both head off
naked into the woods.
Then we will see what's what.
I will bring a powder made from the mature seeds of the Poison Hemlock and
will drink it if you win the contest.
What will you bet? Better make it your life, because I don't think you would
last 3 months in the Summer. But that is just a guess. Unlike you I will not
presume to know that which I don't.
I know your type, Bob. You pretend to be reasonable and understanding and then
get meaner and nastier by the paragraph.
Do it again and I will killfile you.
Or you could meet me out here and put your money where your big mouth is.
My fucking god but Americans are stinking assholes.
I am very grateful that there is no longer anyone like you in my intimate
life.
Do you know what I do while I am monitoring the ngs and mailing lists, Bob?
Usually I am spinning thread from Hemp or Nettle or Flax.
My life belongs to me and I can do whatever I damned well please. There are
no laws and no rulers here, such as you know these things.
I have to "work" maybe 15 hours a week to live. See, I don't have to pay
taxes or share my earnings with some boss or investor.
I don't have to buy crap I don't want to make the economy go.
It's a very different world, Bob. You could walk within 20 feet of my Village
and not even see it. (Yes, we would have seen you coming and made a few
temporary changes until you passed, but the Village would still be there and
fully functioning.
Have a good one and take care if you wish to maintain a dialog with me.
If you are just another neurotic asshole looking for a whipping boy it won't
be me, I can guarantee that. I just downloaded 28 posts. The other 28 were
killed and not downloaded.
alanc
alanc
Myal
"Bob G" <sa...@pclink.com> wrote in message
news:cl0vfv0dfufl58v0b...@4ax.com...
Bob G
You have restored my faith in humanity.
No Joke
Myal
Sue
§mith) wrote:
>On 29 Jun 2003 20:24:15 -0700, jds...@hotmail.com (Jason Sheppard)
>wrote:
>
>> is that the same kinda sorta maybe but you'll never know killfile as
>> the rest of us are in?
>>
>>
>> Jason - from the only killfile that people are begging to be let
>> into(cite on request)
>
>I've been trying to work out how that thing works. The only image
>that keeps coming back time and again is Dante's 7 levels of Hell or
>whatever. It's been a long time since high school. So far I see it
>as a kind of sub-terranian Mall of America.
>
>I'm working my way through the comic version of Dante and maybe I'll
>re-read the book later. (or is it three books?) I'm sure it's going
>to make a good road map we can all use to climb up and get back to
>civilization.
>
>I'll let everybody know when the breakout is planned. Start keeping
>some food in your pockets so you are ready to roll at the signal.
Damn it. I've forgotten the signal.
Sue - who thinks her fellow inmates in Alan's killfile are just
hilarious and thanks you all for the great laughs!!
Myal
Myal
> I will meet you anyplace in the PNW that is wild, and we will both head
off
> naked into the woods.
>
> Then we will see what's what.
>
> alanc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> alanc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gunner
§mith) wrote:
>On 29 Jun 2003 20:24:15 -0700, jds...@hotmail.com (Jason Sheppard)
>wrote:
>
>> is that the same kinda sorta maybe but you'll never know killfile as
>> the rest of us are in?
>>
>>
>> Jason - from the only killfile that people are begging to be let
>> into(cite on request)
>
>I've been trying to work out how that thing works. The only image
>that keeps coming back time and again is Dante's 7 levels of Hell or
>whatever. It's been a long time since high school. So far I see it
>as a kind of sub-terranian Mall of America.
>
>I'm working my way through the comic version of Dante and maybe I'll
>re-read the book later. (or is it three books?) I'm sure it's going
>to make a good road map we can all use to climb up and get back to
>civilization.
>
>I'll let everybody know when the breakout is planned. Start keeping
>some food in your pockets so you are ready to roll at the signal.
Get the Cliff Notes. It will help.
Gunner
"No man shall be debarred the use of arms.
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm those only who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants.
They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes,
produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by
thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree."
- Thomas Jefferson
North
>You are calling me a liar with no evidence to back up that accusation.
>
>Do it again and I will killfile you.
>
>
It has been proven time and time again (with cites even) that you Alan
are the biggest lier on the face of the planet. You don't seem to
understand that EVERYONE wants to be in your killfile.
Everyone knows that you are so full of shit that its coming out of
your ears. Some of us know all about you. Some of us know that you are
an outpatient at the local mental hospital. Some of us know that
Wellington (thats where you post from) has a large mental hospital in
it and that a large number of outpateints live there. Hint: remember
last year when earthlink shit canned you ? I remember...lol
Bill Dearth
> Here we deal with one the myths that sustains your society: That your way
of
> life provides more leisure time than any other lifestyle. Bunk. And that
you
> have any at all comes from your exploitation of other peoples.
>
> I grow all of my food on about 1/10 acre of land and spend less time
growing,
> harvesting and processing it than the average American spends shopping.
I thought you were a gatherer, not a farmer? And 1/10 acre? LOL, not a
plant alive that could produce all you need year round on a 1/10 acre.
> The Woods hold no fears for me and those of us who live in and WITH them.
> Nature is Good and we are a part of Nature. And Nature is based on
cooperation.
> Respect the rights of the other denizens of the Woods and they will
respect
> yours. Humans are on no other creature's native menu.
>
Since when is nature based on cooperation? Oh yeah, just the other day is
say a deer helping a bear get a honey comb, and the bees were running a mead
making workshop.
>
> I can do it with plant materials one HELL of a lot faster than anyone can
do
> it with animal skins.
BS You can weave/felt plant fibre faster then I could drape a pelt over
myself? Alanc, that is totally unreasonable. Not even worth pointing out
to you, but then again, you have trouble with logic and reality.
>
> Yes, I think I could walk out into the Winter Mountains, naked, and
survive
> just fine. Would not want to put it to the test, though. But I know lots
of
> people who have. They are my Teachers.
>
>
> >
> > Easy to brag, Alan. Much harder to DO.
>
> You are calling me a liar with no evidence to back up that accusation.
>
> Do it again and I will killfile you.
>
LOL, only Alanc gets to call people names. So be careful, or *gasp* you
will be killfiled.
> I have deleted the rest of this without reading it because you are just
not
> being reasonable.
>
>
> I will meet you anyplace in the PNW that is wild, and we will both head
off
> naked into the woods.
>
> Then we will see what's what.
>
> I will bring a powder made from the mature seeds of the Poison Hemlock and
> will drink it if you win the contest.
Gonna drink a powder?
> > Do you know what I do while I am monitoring the ngs and mailing lists,
Bob?
>
> Usually I am spinning thread from Hemp or Nettle or Flax.
LOL, you must get beat up on a daily basis, showing up to the internet cafe
with a sewing basket, and weaving and spinning while waiting for your latte.
> It's a very different world, Bob. You could walk within 20 feet of my
Village
> and not even see it. (Yes, we would have seen you coming and made a few
> temporary changes until you passed, but the Village would still be there
and
> fully functioning.
Because, by your own admissions, none of your villages exist. Wildwood is
your fantasy, not ours. Rather hard to see someone elses fantasy.
Alanc, your entertainment value is wearing thin, get some new lines please.
Bill
Mach Twain
>
> Ah, you have mountain lions over there? Here in Arkansas the Game and Fish
> people claim there are NO mountain lions here. A friend of mine returned home a
> couple of months ago to find the body of his sister-in-law. She was dead and
> partially eaten. All the evidence he's seen points to it being a big cat attack.
> There are paw prints in the area as well as the distinctive wounds caused by a
> big cat. The local law enforcement people claim it was his own dogs which killed
> her, but they have dropped the effort to charge him(for now) and returned his
> dogs to him. He's still working on proving there's a mountain lion in the area,
> but they are hassling him enough to make him think of moving out of the area.
> I'm thinking of going to his place and helping him stake out this "non-existant"
> mountain lion. They couldn't prosecute you for shooting a mountain lion if there
> are NO mountain lions in the state, could they? ;)
>
I think that you will have a better chance of trapping the cat than
hunting it. If foot traps are illegal there, then it's not your trap.
Take pictures, call reporters, there's no need to kill it.
By the way, it doesn't sound like a cat did it.
Mach Twain
Bob G
wrote:
>You have restored my faith in humanity.
>No Joke
>Myal
>
>
Thanks, Myal.
I look at it this way.
Who gets all the press and attention?
Mostly, the bad folk. <Shrug> For a reporter, a newspaper, a news
broadcast network, etc ... fact is ... they care about news and
fairness ... but only a very little. What they most care about is
sales ... making a buck.
The latest news about scandal, bad times, bad people, etc ... sells.
Sometimes, in an effort to be fair and balanced ... and to be able to
make the claim ... they'll report something about some especially
noteworthy "good" person.
Fact is, they almost never talk about "average" people.
So what we read and hear, mostly, is biased one way or the other.
Mostly about the bad stuff. With a little thrown in, from time to
time, about someone who is so far beyond most of us .... or who did
such an outstanding one time deed that the news people consider it
noteworthy. While the rest of us think, "Geez, I can't possibly match
that, I'm just an ordinary person. Average."
Chuckle, but I don't buy all of the news hype..
Been around too long, seen too much.
I am not particularly impressed nor is my opinion swayed by the two
extremes.
Fact is, most of us are average humans.
Most of us want to "do good", but are subject to the normal human
frailties.
As a result, while we as individuals may do many good things, we each
tend to focus on our failures and lacks.
Some of us try to hide our imperfect nature by attempting to "melt"
into the crowd. I.E. Be conformists. Let our opinions and actions be
governed by "the herd". Most likely, the majority fall into this
category.
Some become "wallflowers", or meek and mild as a defense. Who can
blame them for their failures? "I've NEVER claimed I was very good at
anything !"
Some try to hide their failures and imperfections by becoming rather
obnoxious about bragging about their accomplishments or knowlege. I'm
betting that we all know people like this. Sometimes, the person IS
better than average, even excellent, but a lot of folks end up tired
of being reminded about this fact. Sometimes the person is truly a
loser, whose only accomplishment is bragging.
There are some, a small number, who've faced his- or herself squarely
in a mirror, and accepted him or herself at being what he or she is.
No more. No less.
IMHO. there are too few in the last category.
Myal, I am priviledged to have a very close, long time friend who has
a past he COULD brag about. IMHO, he committed an act of bravery
beyond anything I could claim. Beyond anything the vast majority of
us could claim. Long ago, in a land that was very green and far away
from here, during a war our politicians refused to call a war, and
which many in this country did not support ... in order, he hoped, to
save lives on his side ... his fellow military types ... he
volunteered for a mission. Virtually a suicide mission.
He and 35 others were air dropped into DEEP enemy territory. In fact,
the capital area of the enemy. He spent months there, in constant
danger. Searching, looking for valid military targets which the enemy
was disguising. i.e. By putting munitions factories in hospitals.
Look up the report of a certain American actress to embraced our
enemies and SHOWED we were nasty, bad people, because we'd bombed a
hospital.
Myal, there were no sick and injured people in that "hospital". I
know. I know the man who was IN that so-called hospital before he
called in the bombing strike. Because it was, in fact, converted into
a munitions factory.
Only 4 of those volunteers were recovered and returned home ... alive.
My meeting with this fellow was a bit dramatic. We had no idea where
the surviving volunteers might be extracated. A number of primary and
alternate extracation sites were pre-planned. As we did not know what
their situation would be. So we offered several alternatives.
As it turned out, my boat was at one of the alternates when this
fellow and his partner made it into the area. Unfortunately, they'd
been spotted. And were ambushed as we watched.
What impressed me? Not that he was some super warrior as in the
movies. (Tho, I WAS impressed.) But what truly impressed me was that
his partner was hit and hit bad. Was in fact dead. Half his head
blown off. But this fellow WAS NOT gonna leave his partner and friend
behind. He was hit, several times. Badly.
Chuckle ... thanks to his determination ... and modern chemistry (he
hit himself with injectors that pumped in both an equivalent of a
massive dose of adrenalin and morphine. What the hell? He was gonna
die, most likely, anyway.) as we covered for him, he took off in a
charge in our direction.
And dragged his buddy's body all the way.
I slapped the patches on him, Myal. Trying to stem the flow of blood
which was rather massive. And the only thing he could say at first was
to ask if we'd gotten the body of his buddy. Was he successful? Was
his buddy's body going home to his family?
I was ... AWED.
No other word fits.
The guy was near death but only asked about his friend. His partner,
his swim mate, his buddy.
Today? He was with me last week when I was on vacation. He's older.
And has his frailties. As do we all. He's no super human, Myal.
Not at all.
He does his best. Has his "Oops" and failures. Just like we all do.
Has several kids. One, a son, is pretty friggin useless. 22 and a
leech, a scum sucker, a complainer and excuse maker.. My friend's
face twists in pain as he talks about hiim.
But .. he loves his son. He's made several mistakes in raising him
and we've talked long and hard about that. I'm an asshole, I tell him
to stop stepping in and saving his son when he screws up. Let him
fall, and fall hard. Then he'll either change ... or die. So be it.
The son is an adult. I do not believe in treating adults as if they
were kids. They'll learn, or they'll die. That's my opinion, and I
hold to it. Chuckle, as my own son learned to his dismay. (He had to
grow up FAST)
My friend, perhaps the bravest man I know, is not always brave.
Nor do I expect him to be.
I looked into his eyes as he talked about the fact that his body is
failing him. He's had a heat attack, and just found out he's
diabetic.
Heavy stuff, Myal. The combination of the two is not good. In truth,
the fact is that he's likely to not live a lot longer. The odds that
he'll see 70 are not good. Seeing 65 is likely stretching it.
What do I hear when talking to him?
He's disappointed that he's JUST a low level manager for a utlity
company. He's disappointed that during a career in the Navy, 20
years, he ONLY made Chief (E-7).
He does not think he's something great, Myal. In fact, he thinks he's
pretty marginal ... just ... average. If that.
He thinks ... that he is not a very good or successful human.
But, what do I hear? In my heart?
He worries about his wife. What will she do if he dies a long time
before she does? He WORRIES about that. A LOT. Talked about that for
a long time.
He worries about his useless son. Who will pick him up and make
things right when the dummy does stupid things?
He then worries about the other children.
Lastly, a tear leaks out and he wonders how much time he has left.
But he does not wish to talk about that.
But ... I hear that worry, that fear, that weakness ... in his voice.
Do I think less of him?
Not even the tiniest bit, Myal.
He's ... human. All that I expect. Does he have weaknesses and
failures? Of course he does.
Do I still admire him and have the utmost respect for him? Think that
I've never been as brave as he was that time?
YES.
Now, do I think he is GREATER than ... a certain cousin of mine?
Cuz has never been in the military. Could never get into the service.
Has a game leg he was born with.
Besides, he's always been a peaceable man. Doesn't like conflict of
any sort. Happiest in a serene enviornment. Ardent fisherman and
hunter. And IAW with beliefs he and I hold in common, he praises his
game and sings (sometimes out loud, sometimes silently) a prayer to
the fish's or deer's ancestors, to give thanks and ask understanding.
A gentle man. Never a warrior.
Except ... when it comes to his wife and family. He'll drive himself
out into a fierce snowstorm to change a tire or fix something. (He
lives in northern Minnesota, where the weather can be less than ...
nice) Because he knows his family needs the vehicle.
The kids? Aren't even his. His wife was married to a fellow who had
too great a love for drink. And a short temper.
Cuz loves her. And married her. And holds his vows as a serious
thing. It ain't ROMANCE, forever and ever, and it ain't always
something which makes your heart flutter and go pitter-pat. As in
women's romance novels.
It's a commitment. For better or worse.
To him, he took her on as his closest friend, his partner in life ...
a PART or the very person he was and is.
Chuckle, Cuz is somewhat of a wimp ... as viewed by many standards.
Do I think less of him than the friend I mentioned before?
Uh -Uh.
He's not particularly bright. And he dropped out of school early.
And with the game leg he can not brag about any physical prowess.
But ... when he hugs and holds his wife and says he loves her ... it's
true.
Cuz is my own age, and besides the game leg, has to deal with the
ravages of aging. A back which has had various disks blown several
times, knee joints that are mostly ragged and rough, etc. We're the
same age. But while I've had MANY more broken bones (I can't even
remember off hand how many), gouges, serious cuts, bangs, nicks, and
so forth ... I seem to be blessed with a hardier constitution. But
there is no doubt in my mind that he deals with serious pain on many
days.
STILL ... he goes off to work. Does what need to be done.
And asks nothing more ... than that his wife hug him and show her
appreciation. He wants to see her smile. He could care less what
ayone else thinks.
Myal, that man has my utter respect and praise.
<Shrug> And he's no one special. Just Mr Joe Average.
Think about it, Myal.
What do we ask of people in these days of 200 TV stations all looking
for MORE, for excess, for the exceptional?
Chuckle. I think I'll just sit back and accept people for whom they
really are. And recognize the good that quite average people do.
There are exceptions, of course.
But I think most people, faults and all, are pretty good people.
Maybe I'm just stupid, delusional, ignorant, or whatever.
But I've not given up on my fellow humans as of yet, Myal.
No matter what the news "reporters" (or distorters) say.
Bob
Offbreed
> I think that you will have a better chance of trapping the cat than
> hunting it. If foot traps are illegal there, then it's not your trap.
Agreed, traps are more likely to succeed.
> Take pictures, call reporters, there's no need to kill it.
Even if it did kill her? Those things are the same size and strength as
leapards, and leapards kill and eat more humans than any other cat,
according to the various "great white hunter" books I've read.
If it is not to be killed, at least transplant it to Central Park.
> By the way, it doesn't sound like a cat did it.
How so?
Mach Twain
> How so?
>
I used to live in the Mo. Ozarks just north of the Ark border. Reports
of big cats are rare. Whatever lions are left are running scared from
people. The only cases of mt.lion killing people recently that I've
heard of is in places where they aren't hunted, like California.
*Everything is hunted in Arkansas, with hounds.
Mach Twain
Offbreed
> I used to live in the Mo. Ozarks just north of the Ark border. Reports
> of big cats are rare. Whatever lions are left are running scared from
> people. The only cases of mt.lion killing people recently that I've
> heard of is in places where they aren't hunted, like California.
> *Everything is hunted in Arkansas, with hounds.
Point.
If it's a cat, I would suspect a released "pet". Either leopard or cougar.
Mach Twain
I didn't think of the 'pet' aspect. I know for a fact that many African
Lions were caged in the Ozarks, and remember the occasional escapee
making the news. There was a pen of several a few miles down the road
from me. A non-native big cat could be it. Still, you would think a cat
stalking people would be noticed; or that the hounds would track it.
Mach Twain
Offbreed
> I didn't think of the 'pet' aspect. I know for a fact that many African
> Lions were caged in the Ozarks, and remember the occasional escapee
> making the news. There was a pen of several a few miles down the road
> from me. A non-native big cat could be it. Still, you would think a cat
> stalking people would be noticed; or that the hounds would track it.
Dogs, yes. Dogs are a favorite item on a leopards menu, so dog owners
would soon know about any loose in the area. Dogs should just about SHIT
if they ran across a lions tracks. You are right, it is starting to
sound unlikely.
As for humans noticing, read Capstick. He wrote about a pair of leopards
living in a soccer stadium in a large city for several years, and no one
the wiser. Those things are real slick.
Mach Twain
Searched capstick leopard stadium, but had to give up. Sounds
intertesting if you can pin it down! Most local dogs do cower under the
porch when cats come through. But if you get enuf hounds together they
will track a cat. I root for the cat.
MT
Offbreed
> Searched capstick leopard stadium, but had to give up. Sounds
> intertesting if you can pin it down!
One of his books, I'd have to check the library. Good author, great
stories. The mention was just in passing while describing how hard it
was to kill off all the leopards in any area, IIRC. No story to it.