OT: Star Trek TNG - 'USS Hood'?
John Halliwell
'Tin man' episode. There was another ship flying around called 'Hood',
I'm pretty sure it was introduced as the 'USS Hood', which sounded odd.
1) Anybody know if I heard right?
2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
been two ships in different navies with the same name?
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
>been two ships in different navies with the same name?
Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
times. There were Swiftsures on both sides at Trafalgar (the habit
of 18th century navies of taking prizes into service under their
own names meant that this wasn't uncommon at one stage, though the
traffic had become mainly one-way by the beginning of the 19th century).
I'm pretty sure that the USN and the RN were both operating a Macedonian
in the 1820s (the US example being an ex-British prize), but I don't
know off-hand whether the USN had a Chesapeke or a President then.
Ajax, Achilles, Hector or any of that mob could turn up in almost
anyone's navy, and I'd be very suprised if there weren't multiple
examples around simultaneously from time to time.
Hood, honouring that prolific line which has provided so many
senior officers down the years, would be a name unlikely to
occur in any other navy than the RN (and perhaps not so likely
there now, either..)
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
BMF
"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:as5grl$cr1g$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
> In article <tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk>,
> John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
> >been two ships in different navies with the same name?
>
> Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> times.
Indeed, and there is a captioned picture of the HMS Enterprize (sic) in
scott bakula's cabin on the 'original' Enterprise in the TV series.
<maximum snippage>
> Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
> http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
> Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
cheers,
---
BMF
Lance Kopplin
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk...
In BM1 the Brits had HMS Prince Eugene (a monitor IIRC), Kriegsmarine had
Prinz Eugen.
Same namesake.
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Lance Kopplin <kop...@tconl.com> wrote:
>
>In BM1 the Brits had HMS Prince Eugene (a monitor IIRC), Kriegsmarine had
>Prinz Eugen.
In BM1 it was the K(ue)K[1] Marine which had the Prinz Eugen. The
Kreigsmarine didn't have one until BM2.
>Same namesake.
The Man from Savoy.
[1] (ue) for lack of the ability to balance dots atop letters in trn ;)
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
If God had intended people to program in C++
he wouldn't have invented FORTRAN (Keith Willshaw)
Taki Kogoma
<jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk>, to sci.military.naval decree...
>I was watching Star Trek TNG the other night (nothing better to do), the
>'Tin man' episode. There was another ship flying around called 'Hood',
>I'm pretty sure it was introduced as the 'USS Hood', which sounded odd.
No stranger than "USS Potempkin" from Trek Classic.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
Gary J. Mac Donald
> Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> times.
In WWII USN and RN had Birminghams, Enterprises, and Intrepids, to name the more
obvious.
> There were Swiftsures on both sides at Trafalgar (the habit
> of 18th century navies of taking prizes into service under their
> own names meant that this wasn't uncommon at one stage, though the
> traffic had become mainly one-way by the beginning of the 19th century).
There were 3 Neptunes (..uno/..una) at Trafalgar, and 2 Achillies.
GaryJ
Vince Brannigan
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:
> In article <7HsF9.330$SF4....@news.uswest.net>,
> Lance Kopplin <kop...@tconl.com> wrote:
> >
> >In BM1 the Brits had HMS Prince Eugene (a monitor IIRC), Kriegsmarine had
> >Prinz Eugen.
>
> In BM1 it was the K(ue)K[1] Marine which had the Prinz Eugen. The
> Kreigsmarine didn't have one until BM2.
>
> >Same namesake.
>
> The Man from Savoy.
>
> [1] (ue) for lack of the ability to balance dots atop letters in trn ;)
>
1) K und K has no umlaut it stands for the dual monarchy
"Kaiserreich Österreich und das Königreich Ungarn "
Prince Eugene of Savoy was of Italian Heritage, born in France and served
Austria
he was also the name sake for the Italian Eugenio de Savoia
http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Wlochy/Cruisers/CL_1935_Duca_d'Aosta_class/_Savoia_photos.html
Vince
Yama
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk...
> been two ships in different navies with the same name?
>
Singaporean navy uses mostly English names and many of their shipnames
sound like borrowed from RN. See
http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/asiapac/singap.htm
At least following shipnames they currently have with RN:
Vengeance
Endurance
Fearless
I also noticed that RN is getting a new ENTERPRISE.
Alfred May
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk...
Battle of Copenhagen 1801, Nelson flew his flag in "Elephant". The opposing
Danish flagship was "Elefanten" (the Elephant).
Regards
Tom
Justin Broderick
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk...
> 'Tin man' episode. There was another ship flying around called 'Hood',
> I'm pretty sure it was introduced as the 'USS Hood', which sounded odd.
>
> 1) Anybody know if I heard right?
>
Probably. I believe HOOD was used in the original Star Trek, probably as an
attempt to break up the "US aircraft carriers" theme for starship names.
> 2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
> been two ships in different navies with the same name?
>
Oh my yes. There were British and French SWIFTSUREs and NEPTUNEs at
Trafalgar. And if you count lingustic variations of the same name, there
was a Spanish NEPTUNO as well as ACHILLES/ACHILLE and ARGONAUTE/ARGONAUTA.
In the 1700-1800s standard practice was to keep the names of captured enemy
vessels, or to give new vessels the name to commemorate the victory. These
"foreign" names could then be recycled themselves. Thus TÉMÉRAIRE became
more of a traditional name for British ships than French.
Then there are conceptual names, like "revenge" or "invincible," and
classical names like "Agammemnon" and and "Orion," and animal names which
have been used by many navies over time.
--Justin
Justin Broderick
> In article <7HsF9.330$SF4....@news.uswest.net>,
> In BM1 it was the K(ue)K[1] Marine which had the Prinz Eugen. The
> Kreigsmarine didn't have one until BM2.
>
> >Same namesake.
>
> The Man from Savoy.
>
> [1] (ue) for lack of the ability to balance dots atop letters in trn ;)
>
No umlauts needed, it's just "und" in kaiserliche und königliche
Kriegsmarine.
--Justin
Ian Birchenough
<tjama...@paju.oulu.fi> writes
<snip>
>
>I also noticed that RN is getting a new ENTERPRISE.
>
>
>
What's going to get named Enterprise?
Lose the SPAMTRAP to reply
--
Ian Birchenough
Richard Brooks
"BMF" <ben....@spamtrap.baes.com> wrote in message
news:3de64b01$1...@baen1673807.greenlnk.net...
>
> "ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:as5grl$cr1g$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
> > In article <tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk>,
> > John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
> > >been two ships in different navies with the same name?
> >
> > Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> > times.
>
> Indeed, and there is a captioned picture of the HMS Enterprize (sic) in
> scott bakula's cabin on the 'original' Enterprise in the TV series.
>
I suppose if any of the Star Trek series is meant so be about the future
there must be things in it that take us by surprise including names such as
USS Tirpitz ! ;-)
Richard.
Paul J. Adam
<jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> writes
>I was watching Star Trek TNG the other night (nothing better to do), the
>'Tin man' episode. There was another ship flying around called 'Hood',
>I'm pretty sure it was introduced as the 'USS Hood', which sounded odd.
>
>1) Anybody know if I heard right?
Yep. The Star Trek writers got quite prolific in pillaging "historic"
warship names - there was a USS Yamato mentioned, for instance :) Trying
to get away from the Federation being the US In Space and remembering
that it was meant to be a multinational, nay multiplanetary,
organisation.
>2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
>been two ships in different navies with the same name?
Frequently - others have offered examples that cover the ones I first
thought of.
--
Paul J. Adam
David Biddulph
news:flx69QCG...@the-goggs.fsnet.co.uk...
> In message <as5ppm$k1a$1...@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>, Yama
> <tjama...@paju.oulu.fi> writes
>
> <snip>
> >
> >I also noticed that RN is getting a new ENTERPRISE.
> >
> >
> >
> What's going to get named Enterprise?
Survey Vessel Hydrographic/ Oceanographic:
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3490.html
Her sister HMS Echo has already been accepted:
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/content/138_6158_630_0.html#news6158
--
David Biddulph
Matt Clonfero
<ar...@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:
>
>> Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
>> times.
>
>In WWII USN and RN had Birminghams, Enterprises, and Intrepids, to name the more
>obvious.
IIRC, the RN is buying another HMS Enterprise (a survey vessel - it was
launched earlier this year)
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3490
Aetherem Vincere
Matt
--
To err is human
To forgive is not
Air Force Policy
Matt Clonfero
Justin Broderick <cyn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Then there are conceptual names, like "revenge" or "invincible," and
>classical names like "Agammemnon" and and "Orion," and animal names which
>have been used by many navies over time.
Don't a lot of the Sovremennyy names translate as concepts (Brave,
Daring etc)?
Felix Reuthner
> In BM1 it was the K(ue)K[1] Marine which had the Prinz Eugen.
>
> [1] (ue) for lack of the ability to balance dots atop letters in trn ;)
Actually KuK for "Kaiserlich und Königlich". No dots for the middle u :-)
Felix
Bradley Perrett
> <snip other examples>
> There were 3 Neptunes (..uno/..una) at Trafalgar, and 2 Achillies.
And even Australia has now adopted a name that is simultaneously in
use in the RN: Newcastle. In the late 1980s the RAN had run out of
city names after its first five Perrys. So for the sixth it evidently
could not resist using a name that had always been off-limits because
of the risk of confusion with a British ship.
As I recall, the press release mumbled something about British ships
now appearing much less often in Australia's operating area, so it
didn't matter anymore.
Brad.
Kenny MacLeod
>
> IIRC, the RN is buying another HMS Enterprise (a survey vessel - it
> was launched earlier this year)
>
> http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3490
The last paragraph refers to them as warships.... that's stretching the
definition a little, isn't it?
Keith Willshaw
"Richard Brooks" <richar...@kdbanglia.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:as5vmo$s4$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> >
> In the programme start sequence it shows up with the same spelling.
>
> I suppose if any of the Star Trek series is meant so be about the future
> there must be things in it that take us by surprise including names such
as
> USS Tirpitz ! ;-)
>
>
Of course in the Star Trek World this isnt just a United States
force. Its made up of all the old terrestial nations and a bunch
of alien ones.
Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
Keith
Peter Skelton
I don't know about that. Sounds like a fine name for a ship for
wiping out the Klingons around Uranus.
____
Peter Skelton
Andrew Spark
a...@aber.ac.uk (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN) wrote:
> Hood, honouring that prolific line which has provided so many
> senior officers down the years, would be a name unlikely to
> occur in any other navy than the RN (and perhaps not so likely
> there now, either..)
I'm pretty certain that Hood is on the banned list.
As I believe (rather sadly) is "Bellerophon" -though I was told that
this was because it won't fit on a modern cap tally....
Alan Lothian
<skel...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>
> I don't know about that. Sounds like a fine name for a ship for
> wiping out the Klingons around Uranus.
Keep my anus out of this. You may do as you wish with your own :)
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" Ibn Khaldun
My .mac.com address is a spam sink.
If you wish to email me, try alan dot lothian at blueyonder dot co dot uk
John Halliwell
<usenet.2....@spamgourmet.com> writes
What's HMS Endurance classed as?
I'm not surprised they used 'Hood', unlike some other names it hasn't
been picked out of thin air. It was just the 'USS' bit that got me,
apart from anything else it just sounded odd and awkward to say.
Ken & Laura Chaddock
> "BMF" <ben....@spamtrap.baes.com> wrote in message
> news:3de64b01$1...@baen1673807.greenlnk.net...
> >
> > "ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
> > news:as5grl$cr1g$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
> > > In article <tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk>,
> > > John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
> > > >been two ships in different navies with the same name?
> > >
> > > Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> > > times.
> >
> > Indeed, and there is a captioned picture of the HMS Enterprize (sic) in
> > scott bakula's cabin on the 'original' Enterprise in the TV series.
> >
> In the programme start sequence it shows up with the same spelling.
>
> I suppose if any of the Star Trek series is meant so be about the future
> there must be things in it that take us by surprise including names such as
> USS Tirpitz ! ;-)
There was one episode where the Enterprise was meeting the USS Yamato.
Remember, this is STAR TREK, USS does not mean United States Ship it
means United SYSTEMS Ship...and Star Fleet ship names honoured many
different ships from many different nations...both human and allied alien...
...Ken
Duke of URL
news:28dduu8rojupjrun1...@4ax.com...
Bad Peter! BAD! No cookie!
Gary J. Mac Donald
I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything whenI read that....
GaryJ
Mike Potter
ships of different navies. Big cats and mythological characters were
popular choices. In 1901 the USA, the UK, Germany, and Austria Hungary
each had a warship named PANTHER. There may have been five simultaneous
TIGERs and five simultaneous SCORPIONs. METEORs were in four navies and
THORs in three. These are all from a random scan of Conway's All the
World's Fighting Ships 1860-1905.
Translations of Russian, Japanese, and other ships' names to equivalent
English words could reveal additional common names. For example, IIRC
the Soviet Navy in the 1980s had a destroyer whose name translated to
BRILLIANT, matching the contemporaneous HMS BRILLIANT.
I'm interested in knowing how Kiska Island got its name. Kiska is the
Russian word for kitten or little cat. Therefore to a Russian the USN
had ships named KITTEN.
TJ
excited about meeting up with USS POTEMKIN.
TJ
TJ
<vze2...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>1) K und K has no umlaut it stands for the dual monarchy
>
>"Kaiserreich Österreich und das Königreich Ungarn "
>
>Prince Eugene of Savoy was of Italian Heritage, born in France and served
>Austria
Ah so!
Here I was thinking it was simple: Kaiser und Koenig.
TJ
TJ
wrote:
>In article <aEuF9.6062$ta5.7...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>Justin Broderick <cyn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Then there are conceptual names, like "revenge" or "invincible," and
>>classical names like "Agammemnon" and and "Orion," and animal names which
>>have been used by many navies over time.
>
>Don't a lot of the Sovremennyy names translate as concepts (Brave,
>Daring etc)?
>
>Aetherem Vincere
>Matt
Russki destroyer types usually have names after 'postiive' adjectives:
Brave, Daring, Adroit, Fearless, etc. I seem to recall that some were
also named after various officers who distinguished themselves, but
I'd only wager a beer on that one.
TJ
BMF
"Andrew Spark" <andy_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:andy_usenet-8C06...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
Banned List? Care to shed some more light on this please?
cheers,
--
BMF
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Keith Willshaw <keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Richard Brooks" <richar...@kdbanglia.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:as5vmo$s4$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> there must be things in it that take us by surprise including names such
>as
>> USS Tirpitz ! ;-)
>Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
>in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
Depends whether the cultural evolution to a space-faring society follows
the Ken McLeod route, really. Honouring the bearded one would be entirely
possible and, indeed, probably appropriate in such circumstances.
I still prefer <small font> I said, I've got a big stick </small font>,
though.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
If God had intended people to program in C++
he wouldn't have invented FORTRAN (Keith Willshaw)
Guy Alcala
> John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I was watching Star Trek TNG the other night (nothing better to do), the
> > 'Tin man' episode. There was another ship flying around called 'Hood',
> > I'm pretty sure it was introduced as the 'USS Hood', which sounded odd.
> >
> > 1) Anybody know if I heard right?
>
> Probably. Remember, though, that USS stands for "United Stars Ship" -
> the USofA don't exist in the Star-Trek-Universe.
Herewith a list of the Constitution class cruisers, from the original show's
era, taken from one of the many Star Trek web sites
( http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/con_reg.html ):
USS Constellation
USS Constitition
USS Defiant
USS Eagle
USS Endeavour
USS Enterprise
USS Essex
USS Excalibur
USS Exeter
USS Farragut
USS Hood
USS Intrepid
USS Kongo
USS Lexington
USS Potemkin
USS Republic
USS Valiant
USS Yorktown
For an exhaustive listing of the many ships and classes mentioned in the
various series, books, movies, games, etc., try the main page of the above:
http://steve.pugh.net/fleet/default.html
You'll find names from a wide variety of countries, cultures (human and
otherwise) and disciplines.
Guy
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Names that will not be used, either because they might be distorted
in a scurrilous manner (Billy Ruffian might be in that catagory,
though give than Bellerophrons have been called that since at least the
early 19th century it would seem a shame), because they're not regarded
as appropriate for a navy in peacetime (Devastation and Terror, probably),
because earlier ships have been lost in embarassing circumstances
(Victoria, though how on earth Vanguard escaped from that bin I know
not) or because a previous ship is best known for being sunk with
damn-near all hands (Hood, no-one apart from historians remember
Invincible)
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Thanks everyone. I had typed it as "KuK", then was suddenly afflicted with
doubt as to whether an umlaut was needed or not. Blame a youth mispent
listening to bands which tended to balance umlauts anywhere they could..
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Andy Dingley
<keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
>in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
They'd probably avoid Yamato - not because of a minor thing like an
18" battleship, but because of something serious - ninja attack
lawyers (in mini skirts) from the Japanese manga zaibatsu.
There's already a "battleship Yamato" in some popular space-manga
series.
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Andy Dingley <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:58:17 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
><keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
>>in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
>
>They'd probably avoid Yamato - not because of a minor thing like an
>18" battleship, but because of something serious - ninja attack
>lawyers (in mini skirts) from the Japanese manga zaibatsu.
On their own they might just about be capable of holding off the attack
lawyers, but we all know who turns up for dinner when any sci-fi type
cartoon or film features anime-type females in short skirts. Yup.
The big guy with the tentacles.
I only know this sort of stuff from hearsay, honest..
BMF
> >Banned List? Care to shed some more light on this please?
>
> Names that will not be used, either because they might be distorted
> in a scurrilous manner (Billy Ruffian might be in that catagory,
> though give than Bellerophrons have been called that since at least the
> early 19th century it would seem a shame), because they're not regarded
> as appropriate for a navy in peacetime (Devastation and Terror, probably),
> because earlier ships have been lost in embarassing circumstances
> (Victoria, though how on earth Vanguard escaped from that bin I know
> not) or because a previous ship is best known for being sunk with
> damn-near all hands (Hood, no-one apart from historians remember
> Invincible)
>
> --
> Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
> http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
> Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
--
BMF
Richard Bell
Roddenberry seems to have set the naming convention of Starfleet to
re-use prominent names of pre-space naval craft. ST:TOS seemed to
favor the USN (Yorktown, Enterprise, Lexington, Saratoga, Constitution),
but the name Hood was used (with an all vulcan crew) along with
Potemkin. The Yamato was a sister ship of the Enterprise-D, but was lost
to a nasty, invasive alien program.
[Obligatory useless trivia] ST:E rewrites the canon, as Starfleet's first
warp-capable ship was originally named Bonaventure. The name (and vessel)
Enterprise* was not particularily distinguished, before Kirk's command.
However, the canon name of the first starship was established in an episode
of the cartoon series, so it can be safely ignored.
* in the service of Starfleet
The manga series is "StarBlazers", and I believe it is predicated that the
Yamato merely sank, not sank and broke up, in BM2.
Taki Kogoma
to sci.military.naval decree...
>Richard Brooks wrote:
>> I suppose if any of the Star Trek series is meant so be about the future
>> there must be things in it that take us by surprise including names such as
>> USS Tirpitz ! ;-)
>
> There was one episode where the Enterprise was meeting the USS Yamato.
>Remember, this is STAR TREK, USS does not mean United States Ship it
>means United SYSTEMS Ship...and Star Fleet ship names honoured many
>different ships from many different nations...both human and allied alien...
Nit-pick:
It's always been "United Space Ship".
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk -- quirk @ swcp.com | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
Retired 'Secret Master of | superior to what I have now."
rec.arts.startrek' | -- Gym Quirk
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Richard Bell <rlb...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>[Obligatory useless trivia] ST:E rewrites the canon, as Starfleet's first
>warp-capable ship was originally named Bonaventure. The name (and vessel)
Bonaventure is distinguished enough. It's an Armada name (the Bonaventure
or Elizabeth Bonaventure was right in the thick of it in the channel
actions), and there was a Bonaventure in the last big mistake (a Dido,
lost, IIRC, to an Italian submarine). After that there was a submarine
depot ship, which was used as the parent ship for the X-craft attack
on Tirpitz, and of course the Canadians used the name for one of their
light fleets. It's a good name.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
BF Lake
"Mike Potter" <pot...@invalid.net> wrote
>
> I'm interested in knowing how Kiska Island got its name. Kiska is the
> Russian word for kitten or little cat.
It is one of the Rat Islands <G> Maybe in Bering's voyage account?
Regards,
Barry
Taki Kogoma
to sci.military.naval decree...
>Andy Dingley <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:58:17 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
>><keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
>>>in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
>>
>>They'd probably avoid Yamato - not because of a minor thing like an
>>18" battleship, but because of something serious - ninja attack
>>lawyers (in mini skirts) from the Japanese manga zaibatsu.
>>
>>There's already a "battleship Yamato" in some popular space-manga
>>series.
>
>Roddenberry seems to have set the naming convention of Starfleet to
>re-use prominent names of pre-space naval craft. ST:TOS seemed to
>favor the USN (Yorktown, Enterprise, Lexington, Saratoga, Constitution),
>but the name Hood was used (with an all vulcan crew) along with
>Potemkin.
Actually, the all-Vulcan ship was USS _Intrepid_.
Got eaten by a giant space-amoeba.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
quirk @ swcp.com | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
BF Lake
> In article <as886n$mvt$1...@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,
> Richard Bell <rlb...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>
> >[Obligatory useless trivia] ST:E rewrites the canon, as Starfleet's first
> >warp-capable ship was originally named Bonaventure. The name (and
vessel)
>
> Bonaventure is distinguished enough. It's an Armada name (the Bonaventure
> or Elizabeth Bonaventure was right in the thick of it in the channel
> actions), and there was a Bonaventure in the last big mistake (a Dido,
> lost, IIRC, to an Italian submarine). After that there was a submarine
> depot ship, which was used as the parent ship for the X-craft attack
> on Tirpitz, and of course the Canadians used the name for one of their
> light fleets. It's a good name.
The 1652 one got captured by Tromp though, along with GARLAND ISTR. The
RCN carrier (a bird farm) had the same name as a well-known island on the
East Coast which hosts squadrons of seabirds. <G> The RCN ship had a
Battle Honours board naming all her RN predecessors' honours iaw RCN custom.
I don't know if the Star Fleet ships would (will?) retain the battle honours
of previous ships of the name though, since the USN doesn't do that It
was also the name of an extra sail right aft in galleons ISTR.
Regards,
Barry
Regards,
Barry
William Black
"Keith Willshaw" <keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:as6aie$hnl$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "Richard Brooks" <richar...@kdbanglia.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message
> news:as5vmo$s4$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
>
> > >
> >
> > there must be things in it that take us by surprise including names such
> as
> > USS Tirpitz ! ;-)
> >
> >
>
> force. Its made up of all the old terrestial nations and a bunch
> of alien ones.
>
> in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
However USS Stalin and USS Giap are both possibilities.
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Andrew Chaplin
news:as8a2a$qk9$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
> Bonaventure is distinguished enough. It's an Armada name (the Bonaventure
> or Elizabeth Bonaventure was right in the thick of it in the channel
> actions), and there was a Bonaventure in the last big mistake (a Dido,
> lost, IIRC, to an Italian submarine). After that there was a submarine
> depot ship, which was used as the parent ship for the X-craft attack
> on Tirpitz, and of course the Canadians used the name for one of their
> light fleets. It's a good name.
It's particularly fitting as a name for a "bird farm" since, in the Canadian
context, it was inspired by Île Bonaventure in the Saint Lawrence River, one
of Canada's first bird sanctuaries. It's crowded with gannets.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
BMF <ben....@spamtrap.baes.com> wrote:
>
>> >Banned List? Care to shed some more light on this please?
>>
>> Names that will not be used, either because they might be distorted
>Nice one, cheers Andy
To add to that, I quote from Navy News:
Considerations taken into account by the Ships Names and Badges Commitee..
"The list of considerations is comprehensive. Among the many
considerations in the selection of a shortlist of names for Royal Navy or
RFA ships are:
Has it a strong RN tradition, and does it have many Battle Honours?
Does it have a particular association with a type of ship? A survey ship
would not be named Royal Oak, or a destroyer HMS Prince of Wales, for
example.
Are there enough usable names for the class of ship? An X-ray Class of 50
would prove difficult to fill.
Does a name have a strong civic affiliation?
Is there sufficient gap between the paying-off of the previous ship and
the name being considered again?
Does the name have an unhappy history Thetis or Affray, for example.
Is the name liable to mispronunciation or corruption into an unfortunate
nickname?
Does the name have a different or unfortunate meaning in other countries?
Does the name have strong links with other navies? Perth, Vampire and
Vendetta have connections with the Australians.
Has the popular meaning of the name changed over time?
Is the name in current use elsewhere in the Navy? HMS Drake and HMS
Nelson would thus be ruled out."
/and/
"Understandably, certain names will never get as far as a final shortlist,
for various reasons.
These may include HMS Karl Marx (politically sensitive, and
foreign-sounding); HMS BAE Systems (commercial lobbying is unheard
of); HMS Duff (ex-Captain-class frigate with a name which has modern
connotations of uselessness, beside being the name of Homer Simpsons
favourite beer); HMS Pansy (too nice); HMS Cockchafer (large grey-brown
beetles are unlikely to inspire much favour in the Naval fraternity); HMS
Fubbs (strangely-named royal yacht of 1682); HMS Infernal (too
doom-laden); HMS Morris Dance (not sufficiently doom-laden); HMS John &
Sarah (followed by HMS Kev & Shazza?); HMS Tiny (a member of the
Cheerful-class); HMS Negro (World War I M-class destroyer); HMS Psyche
(rather too close to Psycho); and HMS Pert (just think of the cap tallies
...)"
the whole article is at:
http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2002/0207/0002073101.asp
HTH..
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Andrew Chaplin <abch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:
>"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:as8a2a$qk9$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
>
>> on Tirpitz, and of course the Canadians used the name for one of their
>> light fleets. It's a good name.
>
>It's particularly fitting as a name for a "bird farm" since, in the Canadian
>context, it was inspired by Île Bonaventure in the Saint Lawrence River, one
>of Canada's first bird sanctuaries. It's crowded with gannets.
If the post-war Canadian Bonaventure was a bird farm, would the
Bonaventure operated by the RN from 1943 to the 1950s have been a
fish farm?
I'll get me coat.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
>> or Elizabeth Bonaventure was right in the thick of it in the channel
>The 1652 one got captured by Tromp though, along with GARLAND ISTR. The
We'd have run short of names if we'd stopped using all the ones the Dutch
captured, particularly after the Medway debacle..
No dishonour in losing to someone like Tromp, IMO.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Praetorian
Alaska *was* a
Russian possession once upon a time?
===============================================================
"BF Lake" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uufb4ma...@corp.supernews.com...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002
BF Lake
news:DeVF9.185809$1O2.11117@sccrnsc04...
> Can it be that some readers are totally unaware than much of our state of
> Alaska *was* a
> Russian possession once upon a time?
No. We are reasonably up on such things.
I think Mike wanted to know why Bering or whoever named the island after a
kitten--like maybe the ship's cat had some there or maybe there was one left
there from his voyage and it got named like Mare Island did by a later
visitor....or it looks like one---or?
Regards,
Barry
Neill McKay
> And even Australia has now adopted a name that is simultaneously in use
> in the RN: Newcastle. In the late 1980s the RAN had run out of city
> names after its first five Perrys. So for the sixth it evidently could
> not resist using a name that had always been off-limits because of the
> risk of confusion with a British ship.
>
> As I recall, the press release mumbled something about British ships now
> appearing much less often in Australia's operating area, so it didn't
> matter anymore.
There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
Commonwealth navies, in which ships retained the battle honours of their
predecessors even across navies. I believe it was a part of this system
that there could only be one ship with a particular name (accumulating
battle honours in that name) at a time. Canada (in what appears to me as an act
of mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
withdrew from this system a few years ago. Perhaps Australia has done the
same?
Neill McKay
Greg
ships of the Heavy Cruiser Constellation Class (with a couple sub variants) were
"authorized" :
Constellation NCC-1017
Constitution NCC-1700
Enterprise NCC-1701
Excalibur NCC-1705
Exeter NCC-1706
Farragut NCC- 1702
Hood NCC-1707
Intrepid NCC-1708
Kongo NCC-1710
Lexington NCC-1703
Potempkin NCC-1711 (yes, I know the spelling is wrong)
Republic NCC1371
Valiant NCC-1709
Yorktown NCC-1704
Followed by:
ARI, BonHommeRichard, Eagle, El Dorado, Endeavor, Essex, Excelsior, Hornet,
Layfayette, Kreiger, Merrimac, Monitor, Saratoga, Tori, Wasp, Defiance with NCC
number from 1712-1726
Then about 110 more, all with various Star names.
This is all from TOS, not Next Gen ............. and just for
grins'n'giggles.....
Greg Phillips
Andrew Chaplin
> If the post-war Canadian Bonaventure was a bird farm, would the
> Bonaventure operated by the RN from 1943 to the 1950s have been a
> fish farm?
>
> I'll get me coat.
<Newfoundland>
Does ye want help with some BOOTS? We'll put 'em to ye.
</Newfoundland> ;^)
Errol Cavit
"Neill McKay" <neill...@not.my.address> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.30.00...@not.my.address...
> "Bradley Perrett" <bradley_pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > As I recall, the press release mumbled something about British ships now
> > appearing much less often in Australia's operating area, so it didn't
> > matter anymore.
>
Oh the irony! (for those that didn't know/remember, HMS Nottingham had most
of her repairs done in Newcastle NSW)
> There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
> Commonwealth navies, in which ships retained the battle honours of their
> predecessors even across navies. I believe it was a part of this system
> that there could only be one ship with a particular name (accumulating
> battle honours in that name) at a time. Canada (in what appears to me as
an act
> of mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
> another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
> withdrew from this system a few years ago. Perhaps Australia has done the
> same?
>
Well they kind of had to, I wouldn't suggest taking 'River Plate' off
Achilles when she became HMNZS would have been good for the health of any
Sea Lords that subsequently came in six inch range!
Does anyone else use Endeavour for a naval ship (NZ's tanker, often in SE
Asia and Indian Ocean operations) at the moment?
--
Errol Cavit
to email, my middle initial is G | "Auchinleck...decided that Tobruk could
not be relieved. [... Gen.] Blamey said 'Australia is an independent nation.
She came into the war under certain definite agreements. Now, gentlemen, in
the name of my Government, I demand the relief of these troops.'"
Tom Rynders
however as of 1989 no RAN ship may display RN honours ( info from "the
destroyers" and "the capital ships" by vic cassells)
--
Tom Rynders
POCSS(AC)
HMAS Watson
"Neill McKay" <neill...@not.my.address> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.11.30.00...@not.my.address...
Floyd Davidson
There probably is an account of how the name came to be, but
I don't have access to it. Kiska was apparently first
recorded and named during Bering's 1741 to Alaska just more
than a month before his death in December of 1741.
Naturalist Georg Steller, a close friend of Bering who was
on that voyage kept a journal, which was later published.
It might well have better descriptions of how and why
various names were given.
Bancroft's "History of Alaska" published originally in 1886
(and republished in 1970), on page 85 describes Bering's
last voyage and the discovery of Amchitka and "Kishka" in
October. (Bering died in December.)
"Only fifteeen casks of water remained, and the
commander was so reduced by sickenss and despondency
that the burden of affairs fell almost wholly on
Waxel. On the 25th land was sighted in latitude 52°
was named St. Stephen (Kishka). On the 29th in
latitude 52° 30' still another island was discovered
and name St. Abram (Semichi Island). On the 30th two
other..."
p85, "History of Alaska", Bancroft, 1886.
Note the spelling, and that there is a Cape St. Stephen on
the west side of Kiska Island. Further, on page 39 there is
a map which is titled "What Mikhail Gvozdef Saw." This map
shows "Kiska". (Except what Gvozdef saw was the Bering
Straits and probably Cape Prince of Wales, but not the
Aleutian Islands.)
There are no other references to either "Kiska" or "Kishka"
in the book, and there is no reference in the index to Rat
Islands.
Gvozdef was one of several Russians who visited Alaska
_before_ the Bering's 1741 voyage which is credited as
"discovering" the mainland of Alaska. But there is no
indication of when the map was drawn or who drew it.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.ptialaska.net/~floyd>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl...@barrow.com
James E.Dauven
the British Navy in the War of
1812. However today we have the USS Winston Churchill which is a Arlie
Bruke class Aegis Destroyer that by
US Navy regulation MUST have one officer slotted to the ROYAL NAVY. Rather
a nice gesture don't you think.
The Independent
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN wrote:
> In article <tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk>,
> John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
> >been two ships in different navies with the same name?
>
> Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> times. There were Swiftsures on both sides at Trafalgar (the habit
> of 18th century navies of taking prizes into service under their
> own names meant that this wasn't uncommon at one stage, though the
> traffic had become mainly one-way by the beginning of the 19th century).
> I'm pretty sure that the USN and the RN were both operating a Macedonian
> in the 1820s (the US example being an ex-British prize), but I don't
> know off-hand whether the USN had a Chesapeke or a President then.
> Ajax, Achilles, Hector or any of that mob could turn up in almost
> anyone's navy, and I'd be very suprised if there weren't multiple
> examples around simultaneously from time to time.
>
> Hood, honouring that prolific line which has provided so many
> senior officers down the years, would be a name unlikely to
> occur in any other navy than the RN (and perhaps not so likely
> there now, either..)
>
> --
> Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
> http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
> Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
Alan Minyard
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>"Keith Willshaw" <keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
>> in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
>
>Why not? Somebody has to supply the federation leaders with cigars...
>
>of course, the USS Fidel Castro always flies in formation with the
>USS Clinton and the USS Lewinsky :-)
Of course the USS Lewinsky was ineffective as a war ship, her shields
proved too easy to penetrate.
The Clinton was the first Federation ship fitted with a cloaking
device, but it never worked properly since the computer could not
determine what "cloaking" meant.
Al Minyard
Mike Potter
Best regards,
Mike Potter
Bradley Perrett
> Does anyone else use Endeavour for a naval ship (NZ's tanker, often in SE
> Asia and Indian Ocean operations) at the moment?
There's an abundance of Endeavours floating about:
Singapore (an LPD), Canada (a research ship), Barbados (an 11 t patrol
boat), the Dominican Republic (a floating dock, spelled Endeavor) and
New Zealand (the tanker).
Regards,
Brad.
Kerryn Offord
Errol Cavit wrote:
>
> "Neill McKay" <neill...@not.my.address> wrote in message
> news:pan.2002.11.30.00...@not.my.address...
> > "Bradley Perrett" <bradley_pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
<SNIP>
> > There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
> > Commonwealth navies, in which ships retained the battle honours of their
> > predecessors even across navies. I believe it was a part of this system
> > that there could only be one ship with a particular name (accumulating
> > battle honours in that name) at a time. Canada (in what appears to me as
> an act
> > of mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
> > another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
> > withdrew from this system a few years ago. Perhaps Australia has done the
> > same?
> >
>
> Well they kind of had to, I wouldn't suggest taking 'River Plate' off
> Achilles when she became HMNZS would have been good for the health of any
> Sea Lords that subsequently came in six inch range!
Achilles WAS HMNZS for the River Plate
see... http://members.tripod.com/~colemangr/River_Plate.htm
also http://www.navy.mil.nz/ops/ship.cfm?ship_ID=24
says HMNZS Achilles was "HMNZS ACHILLES C70
The most famous of our warships, the
Leander-class light cruiser ACHILLES
served in the New Zealand Naval Forces from
1937 to 1946"
Rich Johnson
> "Errol Cavit" wrote in message news:...
>
> >Does anyone else use Endeavour for a naval ship (NZ's tanker, often in SE
> >Asia and Indian Ocean operations) at the moment?
>
>
> There's an abundance of Endeavours floating about:
>
> Singapore (an LPD), Canada (a research ship), Barbados (an 11 t patrol
> boat), the Dominican Republic (a floating dock, spelled Endeavor) and
> New Zealand (the tanker).
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad.
The Canadian Endevour alas is no more. She went to Baltimour AFAIR to
become a millionairs boat I believe
--
Rich
Enfield NS
Canada
Floyd Davidson
>Thank you for this good research, Mr. Davidson. I'll assign my daughter to find Steller's book in her
>university library. It's an item of family interest.
>Best regards,
>Mike Potter
Here is the information from Bancroft's introduction in the
section labeled "Authorities Quoted", page xxxvi,
Steller (George W.), Beschreibung von dem Lande Kamtschatka.
Frankfurt, etc., 1774; Reisse von Kamtschatka nach Amerika.
St. Petersburg, 1793.
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
ROBERT BREEN) wrote:
> HMS
> Fubbs (strangely-named royal yacht of 1682)
Named after one of Charles II mistresses. I can not remember which
one had that nickname.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Those who cover themselves with martial glory
frequently go in need of any other garment. (Bramah)
TJ
wrote:
<CLIP>
>
>I'm interested in knowing how Kiska Island got its name. Kiska is the
>Russian word for kitten or little cat. Therefore to a Russian the USN
>had ships named KITTEN.
No, close but no cigar.
Try KOSHKA. That is cat. Kiska is probably a native name for the
island.
TJ
Errol Cavit
> >
> > Well they kind of had to, I wouldn't suggest taking 'River Plate' off
> > Achilles when she became HMNZS would have been good for the health of
any
> > Sea Lords that subsequently came in six inch range!
>
> Achilles WAS HMNZS for the River Plate
>
> see... http://members.tripod.com/~colemangr/River_Plate.htm
>
> also http://www.navy.mil.nz/ops/ship.cfm?ship_ID=24
>
> says HMNZS Achilles was "HMNZS ACHILLES C70
>
> The most famous of our warships, the
> Leander-class light cruiser ACHILLES
> served in the New Zealand Naval Forces from
> 1937 to 1946"
"New Zealand Naval Forces" <> RNZN
You will find various websites that are vague but correct (like the navy
one), misleading, or wrong on this point. However googling on 'Royal Navy'
and 'New Zealand Division' should bring up several that clearly state that
she was part of the NZ Division of the RN (and hence HMS) until 30 Sept
1941, and HMNZS thereafter (until she became INS xxxx IIRC) from when the
RNZN was formed.
However checking in the library this afternoon, the ships weren't
recommissioned or anything - they more or less just changed the names, and
carried on. Having a separate navy didn't have any practical effect until
after the war.
Matt Clonfero
<usenet.2....@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>Matt Clonfero wrote:
>>
>> IIRC, the RN is buying another HMS Enterprise (a survey vessel - it
>> was launched earlier this year)
>>
>> http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3490
>
>
>The last paragraph refers to them as warships.... that's stretching the
>definition a little, isn't it?
Probably a definition thing. Since they will be fully RN manned, they
are counted as warships. During the decision making period, there was a
fair amount of debate over whether this generation of survey vessels
should be warships or auxiliaries.
Aetherem Vincere
Matt
--
To err is human
To forgive is not
Air Force Policy
Andy Dingley
wrote:
>> HMS
>> Fubbs (strangely-named royal yacht of 1682)
>
> Named after one of Charles II mistresses. I can not remember which
>one had that nickname.
Does the RN currently have any dredgers ?
An RFA oiler "HMS Camilla" perhaps ?
Kenny MacLeod
The Bulk Cruiser HMS Fergie?
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <as8be2$spb$1...@central.aber.ac.uk>, a...@aber.ac.uk (ANDREW
>ROBERT BREEN) wrote:
>
>> HMS
>> Fubbs (strangely-named royal yacht of 1682)
>
> Named after one of Charles II mistresses. I can not remember which
>one had that nickname.
Was she the mother of the Duke of Monmouth?
It's a good name, though not for a ship. My father used to have a
dog called Fubbs (a yellow labrador - says it all, really)
Andy Dingley
<usenet.2....@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
>The Bulk Cruiser HMS Fergie?
Does the RN have any Landing Craft (Bicycle) ?
Joe Osman
> > In article <tFQLJbAn...@photopia.demon.co.uk>,
> > John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >2) Assuming it was 'USS Hood' (and I know it's sci-fi) has there ever
> > >been two ships in different navies with the same name?
> >
> > Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> > times.
>
> scott bakula's cabin on the 'original' Enterprise in the TV series.
>
> <maximum snippage>
>
> > Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
> > http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
> > Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> > money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
>
>
> ---
> BMF
It always pisses me off that the WWII "Big E" USS Enterprise
is not shown at all in the intro. This is about the only
emotion I manage to feel watching "Enterprise", for the most
part it's incredibly boring.
Joe
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ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Joe Osman <Joseph...@verizon.net> wrote:
>It always pisses me off that the WWII "Big E" USS Enterprise
>is not shown at all in the intro. This is about the only
>emotion I manage to feel watching "Enterprise", for the most
>part it's incredibly boring.
Oi! What about the ship which fought one of the more spectacular
surface gun actions, in Biscay in (IIRC) 1943 - HMS Enterprise?
An interesting ship, very fast and with a very heavy torpedo
armament. Just the thing, you'd have thought..
--
Peter Skelton
BREEN) wrote:
>In article <3DEB92A8...@verizon.net>,
>Joe Osman <Joseph...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>It always pisses me off that the WWII "Big E" USS Enterprise
>>is not shown at all in the intro. This is about the only
>>emotion I manage to feel watching "Enterprise", for the most
>>part it's incredibly boring.
>
>Oi! What about the ship which fought one of the more spectacular
>surface gun actions, in Biscay in (IIRC) 1943 - HMS Enterprise?
>
>An interesting ship, very fast and with a very heavy torpedo
>armament. Just the thing, you'd have thought..
She was Canadian manned. The RN won't release a picture.
____
Peter Skelton
Andrew Chaplin
>
> In article <3DEB92A8...@verizon.net>,
> Joe Osman <Joseph...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >It always pisses me off that the WWII "Big E" USS Enterprise
> >is not shown at all in the intro. This is about the only
> >emotion I manage to feel watching "Enterprise", for the most
> >part it's incredibly boring.
>
> Oi! What about the ship which fought one of the more spectacular
> surface gun actions, in Biscay in (IIRC) 1943 - HMS Enterprise?
>
> An interesting ship, very fast and with a very heavy torpedo
> armament. Just the thing, you'd have thought..
Before all these English borrowings, wasn't there a Frenchman,
"Entreprise"? If so, that one should be in the opening credits too.
Sleepycat
> I was watching Star Trek TNG the other night (nothing better to do), the
> 'Tin man' episode. There was another ship flying around called 'Hood',
> I'm pretty sure it was introduced as the 'USS Hood', which sounded odd.
>
> 1) Anybody know if I heard right?
Probably. In the original series, the U.S.S. Hood was one of the ships
that engaged the Enterprise during the M-5 "war games." The others were
the Potemkin, Excalibur and Lexington (the flagship). The episode was
"The Ultimate Computer" (good episode, by the way).
I'm fairly certain there was a "Hood" in TNG, and I think it might have
been the same class as the ship from Generations that rescued the crew.
--
Sleepycat
William Black
"Andrew Chaplin" <abch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3DEC0F6C...@yourfinger.rogers.com...
> Before all these English borrowings, wasn't there a Frenchman,
> "Entreprise"? If so, that one should be in the opening credits too.
It turned into the first HMS Enterprise in May 1705.
Why have two pics of the same ship? :-)
(24 gun 6th rate I think)
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Andrew Chaplin
news:pan.2002.11.30.00...@not.my.address...
> There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
> Commonwealth navies, [....] Canada (in what appears to me as an act
> of mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
> another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
> withdrew from this system a few years ago.
Has there been something published to that effect, Neill?
Neill McKay
> "Neill McKay" <neill...@not.my.address> wrote in message
> news:pan.2002.11.30.00...@not.my.address...
>
>> There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
>> Commonwealth navies, [....] Canada (in what appears to me as an act of
>> mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
>> another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
>> withdrew from this system a few years ago.
>
> Has there been something published to that effect, Neill?
Yes, stand fast the parenthetic comment, which is my own conjecture (hence
the "appears to me").
From Freeman, David J., Canadian Warship Names, Vanwell Publishing
Limited, St. Catharines, 2000:
"From 1954 to 1987, within the Commonwealth there existed one standard
list of Battle Honours -- known as the Commonwealth List. This list was
both contributed to and used by, all Commonwealth navies. ... It followed,
therefore, that up to 1988 at any given moment there should have been only
one vessel in service within the Commonwealth navies with a given name.
This has not always been so as shown in Appendix D." (pp. 60-61)
"At a naval board meeting early in January 1987, the Director of
Ceremonial at NDHQ, Mr Vince Bezeau, approached the naval board and
suggested that perhaps it was time to repatriate the Battle Honours. He
suggested three courses of action: first, retain the Commonwealth List as
is; second, go to Canadian won Battle Honours only and leave the
Commonwealth List forever; third, retain the List but display British won
Battle Honours in another script, distinctive in either size or colour, or
both. The naval board decided on the second option." (p. 62)
The second passage is referenced by Freeman as "NB Minutes 1/87, Item V,
para 7.b., 7 Jan 1987".
Neill McKay
Andrew Chaplin
> Yes, stand fast the parenthetic comment, which is my own conjecture (hence
> the "appears to me").
>
> From Freeman, David J., Canadian Warship Names, Vanwell Publishing
> Limited, St. Catharines, 2000:
>
> "From 1954 to 1987, within the Commonwealth there existed one standard
> list of Battle Honours -- known as the Commonwealth List. This list was
> both contributed to and used by, all Commonwealth navies. ... It followed,
> therefore, that up to 1988 at any given moment there should have been only
> one vessel in service within the Commonwealth navies with a given name.
> This has not always been so as shown in Appendix D." (pp. 60-61)
>
> "At a naval board meeting early in January 1987, the Director of
> Ceremonial at NDHQ, Mr Vince Bezeau, approached the naval board and
> suggested that perhaps it was time to repatriate the Battle Honours. He
> suggested three courses of action: first, retain the Commonwealth List as
> is; second, go to Canadian won Battle Honours only and leave the
> Commonwealth List forever; third, retain the List but display British won
> Battle Honours in another script, distinctive in either size or colour, or
> both. The naval board decided on the second option." (p. 62)
>
> The second passage is referenced by Freeman as "NB Minutes 1/87, Item V,
> para 7.b., 7 Jan 1987".
B*******! Well we didn't call him Vince Bozo in the RCA for nothing.
They never should have let him in as DC, they should have kept him
chained to a desk in DHist.
Joe Osman
>
> "Bradley Perrett" <bradley_pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And even Australia has now adopted a name that is simultaneously in use
> > in the RN: Newcastle. In the late 1980s the RAN had run out of city
> > names after its first five Perrys. So for the sixth it evidently could
> > not resist using a name that had always been off-limits because of the
> > risk of confusion with a British ship.
> >
> > As I recall, the press release mumbled something about British ships now
> > appearing much less often in Australia's operating area, so it didn't
> > matter anymore.
>
> There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
> predecessors even across navies. I believe it was a part of this system
> that there could only be one ship with a particular name (accumulating
> of mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
> another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
> same?
>
I know the Australians and New Zealanders got a Battle
Honour for Guadalcanal, but as far as I know, the Americans
never even got a nice memo from the King for kicking the
Japanese out of his British Solomon Islands and Gilbert and
Ellis Islands Colonies. Most American infantry regiments,
both Army and Marine, have many unit honors from France,
Belgium and even Luxembourg, but the British don't seem to
acknowledge any troops outside the Commonwealth.
Ogden Johnson III
>Neill McKay wrote:
>> There used to be a common battle honours system among some of the
>> Commonwealth navies, in which ships retained the battle honours of their
>> predecessors even across navies. I believe it was a part of this system
>> that there could only be one ship with a particular name (accumulating
>> battle honours in that name) at a time. Canada (in what appears to me as an act
>> of mean-spirited "let's try to be a more Canadian navy and throw away
>> another piece of our history because it looks too British" sentiment)
>> withdrew from this system a few years ago. Perhaps Australia has done the
>> same?
>I know the Australians and New Zealanders got a Battle
>Honour for Guadalcanal, but as far as I know, the Americans
>never even got a nice memo from the King for kicking the
>Japanese out of his British Solomon Islands and Gilbert and
>Ellis Islands Colonies. Most American infantry regiments,
>both Army and Marine, have many unit honors from France,
>Belgium and even Luxembourg, but the British don't seem to
>acknowledge any troops outside the Commonwealth.
Well, in the case of the USMC, maybe they figure we still owe them for
not torching 8th & I and the Commandant's House when they burned down
the rest of Washington.
OJ III
Neill McKay
> B*******! Well we didn't call him Vince Bozo in the RCA for nothing.
> They never should have let him in as DC, they should have kept him
> chained to a desk in DHist.
It's just dawned on me to ask why the Director of Ceremonial would be
involved with battle honours in the first place.
(I wonder if I can blame the imposition of foot-stomping army drill on
the navy on this guy as well?)
Neill McKay
Chris Vail
"Juergen Nieveler" <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:Xns92D55E820C86...@nieveler-43544.user.cis.dfn.de...
> "Keith Willshaw" <keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
> > in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
>
> Why not? Somebody has to supply the federation leaders with cigars...
>
> of course, the USS Fidel Castro always flies in formation with the
> USS Clinton and the USS Lewinsky :-)
On the USS Clinton, the captains' log would
have no credibility.
Chris
Andrew Chaplin
> It's just dawned on me to ask why the Director of Ceremonial would be
> involved with battle honours in the first place.
>
> (I wonder if I can blame the imposition of foot-stomping army drill on
> the navy on this guy as well?)
DC had a monopoly on the naval and military heritage game before the
advent of DMTH, now DHH. "Snowy" Buckingham had it from its inception
(I think) to the mid-80s when Bezeau was handed the reins.
Andy Spark
<ar...@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
> > Enterprise has been used simultaneously by the USN and the RN several
> > times.
>
> In WWII USN and RN had Birminghams, Enterprises, and Intrepids, to name the
> more
> obvious.
>
> > There were Swiftsures on both sides at Trafalgar (the habit
> > of 18th century navies of taking prizes into service under their
> > own names meant that this wasn't uncommon at one stage, though the
> > traffic had become mainly one-way by the beginning of the 19th century).
>
> There were 3 Neptunes (..uno/..una) at Trafalgar, and 2 Achillies.
This made me wonder: -Assuming that there were one day a "European"
Navy -How about a list of suitable ships names: -In the historic rather
than piss takinf sense I thought. -There are probably enough names
going round that have been used in various navys with enough historic
interest to make up a fair fleet: -Swiftsure, obviously, the others
listed above, a Temeraire, perhaps, and I imagine that there would be
few objections to an Emden.
Any other good suggestions?
John Dallman
andy_...@hotmail.com (Andy Spark) wrote:
> This made me wonder: -Assuming that there were one day a "European"
> Navy -How about a list of suitable ships names: -In the historic rather
> than piss takinf sense I thought. -There are probably enough names
> going round that have been used in various navys with enough historic
> interest to make up a fair fleet: -Swiftsure, obviously, the others
> listed above, a Temeraire, perhaps, and I imagine that there would be
> few objections to an Emden.
>
> Any other good suggestions?
One would expect that names like Glorious, Courageous, Ocean, and Eagle
would be acceptable all-round. The various European navies have rather
different traditional sources of names: everyone uses towns and historic
or virtuous concepts, as far as I can see, but the RN very rarely names
ships after people, whereas it's fairly common European practice (I find
the USN practice of naming occasional ships after living persons weird,
somehow). Ancient Greek and Roman names/concepts would be good for our
"we're where culture got going" smugness.
I think you'd have to have some sort of round-robin for naming ships after
battles, since those can be sensitive: I suspect that the idea of an ES
Trafalgar would be a popular concept in England, for example, but less so
in France.
---
John Dallman j...@cix.co.uk
Keith Willshaw
"John Dallman" <j...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2002120...@jgd.compulink.co.uk...
Its true that in recent years that the RN has rarely named ships after
people
but it wasnt always the case. In the 20th century we've had Hood, Nelson,
Rodney, KGV, Queen Elizabeth, Barham, Iron Duke, Collingwood,
Duke of York, Anson , Howe etc
Keith
Chris Vail
> "Chris Vail" <a000...@NOTTHIS.airmail.net> wrote:
>
> > On the USS Clinton, the captains' log would
> > have no credibility.
>
>
> Except for the USS Ronald Reagan, of course - it doesn't have a log.
But it did cause the fall of the Klingon Empire.....
Chris
Chris Vail
> "Chris Vail" <a000...@NOTTHIS.airmail.net> wrote:
>
> >> Except for the USS Ronald Reagan, of course - it doesn't have a log.
> >
> > But it did cause the fall of the Klingon Empire.....
>
They were, afterwards. Ronald Reagan once
referred to the fUSSR as "Klingons", which stirred
quite a political ruckus ~20 years ago. This was back
when the original ST series was in perpetual re-runs,
and the bad guys of the series were Klingons, and
Jean-Luc Picard hadn't even been born yet.[0].
This just goes to show that the future isn't what it
used to be. <sigh> Now I'm feeling very old,
because I'm not even a ST fan, and I knew this
stuff. My "Klingon" joke was very subtle, and
I thought, very funny. Then I realized that there
is probably an entire generation (TNG) that won't
get it.
Chris <--<sigh again>
[0] I'm sure that there's a trekkie or two in the NG
who will take me to task for getting the timeline wrong.
If I got it wrong, I got it wrong BECAUSE I REALLY
DON'T CARE.
Derek Lyons
>"Errol Cavit" <err...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<as9vjv$cql$3...@lust.ihug.co.nz>...
>> Does anyone else use Endeavour for a naval ship (NZ's tanker, often in SE
>> Asia and Indian Ocean operations) at the moment?
>
>There's an abundance of Endeavours floating about:
>
>Singapore (an LPD), Canada (a research ship), Barbados (an 11 t patrol
>boat), the Dominican Republic (a floating dock, spelled Endeavor) and
>New Zealand (the tanker).
And depending on ones definition(s) of floating, one could also
include the Shuttle Orbiter Endeavour.
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/endeavour.html
D.
Errol Cavit
"Derek Lyons" <derek...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3df1de6d...@supernews.seanet.com...
But not naval, and hardly likely to cause confusion in international ops. I
wonder if during a FPDA exercise anyone has shown up at RSS Endeavour
wanting a top-up?
--
Errol Cavit
to email, my middle initial is G | "Auchinleck...decided that Tobruk could
not be relieved. [... Gen.] Blamey said 'Australia is an independent nation.
She came into the war under certain definite agreements. Now, gentlemen, in
the name of my Government, I demand the relief of these troops.'"
Alfred May
Royal Navy ship names (as with many -pre 20th Century European Navies) came
from tradition and custom (old names "recycled") -for example
"Indefatigable", at different times a ship-of the-line (later razéed to a
frigate), a battle cruiser and a fleet aircraft carrier -, patriotism -
usually monarchs and admirals, but if monarchs were excluded, allowing for
an ES Nelson, I would see no problems with an ES Graf Spee or an ES
Villeneuve or ES Jean Bart - or and a devotion to classical history and
mythology - just think how many ships in the Napoleonic period sailed under
the same name Achilles(British)/Achille(French) or
Bellona(British),Bellona(Venetian),Bellone(French) etc.
The Spanish seemed to use rather a lot of religious names and, after the
revolution, the French renamed a number of their ships-of-the-line with more
propagandistic names ("Sans-Cullotte", "Révolutionnaire", "Droites d'Homme"
etc.) but this latter fad didn't last long.
>I suspect that the idea of an ES
> Trafalgar would be a popular concept in England, for example, but less so
> in France.
The best of it is, the French would probably want an ES Austerlitz or ES
Jena and see nothing wrong with it.
Regards
Tom
Kristan Roberge
John Halliwell wrote:
> In article <as6a8a$ofkif$1...@ID-149587.news.dfncis.de>, Kenny MacLeod
> <usenet.2....@spamgourmet.com> writes
> >Matt Clonfero wrote:
> >>
> >> IIRC, the RN is buying another HMS Enterprise (a survey vessel - it
> >> was launched earlier this year)
> >>
> >> http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=3490
> >
> >
> >The last paragraph refers to them as warships.... that's stretching the
> >definition a little, isn't it?
>
> What's HMS Endurance classed as?
>
> I'm not surprised they used 'Hood', unlike some other names it hasn't
> been picked out of thin air. It was just the 'USS' bit that got me,
> apart from anything else it just sounded odd and awkward to say.
USS = United Star Ship
As in, a star ship produced by the united federation of planets. And all
the hull
numbers are NX (experimental) or NCC (commisioned/production models).
NX-2000
Excelsior later became NCC-2000 when it was judged a sufficient success to
warrant
more hulls being laid down (if you care to follow ST history that is). Most
hull numbers
are now 5 digits but there are still 4 digit hull numbers used for ship's
whose names have
been repeated on multiple classes of vessels and that had historical (in
star trek terms)
significance.
There have been 6 NCC-1701 Enterprises for example...
the original Constitution class (NCC-1701)
the refit-Constitution class (NCC-1701-A)
the Excelsior class (NCC-1701-B)
the Ambassador class (NCC-1701-C)
the Galaxy class (NCC-1701-D)
the Sovereign class (NCC-1701-E)
Of those the only hull number considered to be used on two classes was the
original NCC-1701
as it served as the prototype conversion vessel for the Constitution-Refit
program (as evidenced
by the major external and internal alterations to the ship between the time
of the original tv series
and the first movie). In ST history after the Enterprise was refit, other
original constitution class
ships were refitted to the same standard as Enterprise had been, and new
ships were laid down
to the same revised design. Several times over the course of the movies and
various TV shows
we've seen incidents where by special authority of starfleet command, a ship
has had its hull
registry and name changed to honour a past ship. The NCC-1701-A was an
existing refit-constitution
class that was renamed Enterprise and had its hull registry changed to
replace the original after the
4th movie (depending on which star trek reference you go by, it was
previously either USS Yorktown
or USS TiHo) and there have been two Defiant-class vessels to bear the same
name (both seen
in the final season of DS9) and other ships in the Defiant class included
the USS Valiant, both
of which were royal navy names for past warships as I recall.
Kristan Roberge
Richard Bell wrote:
> Andy Dingley <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:58:17 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
> ><keith@kwillshaw_NoSpam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>Its entirely consistent that there'd be a USS Tirpitz and USS Yamato
> >>in such a force, though hopefully not a USS Fidel Castro
> >
> >They'd probably avoid Yamato - not because of a minor thing like an
> >18" battleship, but because of something serious - ninja attack
> >lawyers (in mini skirts) from the Japanese manga zaibatsu.
> >
> >There's already a "battleship Yamato" in some popular space-manga
> >series.
>
> Roddenberry seems to have set the naming convention of Starfleet to
> re-use prominent names of pre-space naval craft. ST:TOS seemed to
> favor the USN (Yorktown, Enterprise, Lexington, Saratoga, Constitution),
> but the name Hood was used (with an all vulcan crew) along with
> Potemkin. The Yamato was a sister ship of the Enterprise-D, but was lost
> to a nasty, invasive alien program.
I'm pretty sure the all-vulcan crew ship was the USS Defiant.
> warp-capable ship was originally named Bonaventure. The name (and vessel)
Oh good, canada scores #1 :)
NX-01 Enterprise was the first warp-5 capable starship.
> Enterprise* was not particularily distinguished, before Kirk's command.
> However, the canon name of the first starship was established in an episode
> of the cartoon series, so it can be safely ignored.
It was also 10 years old already, having served a 5-year mission under the
command of Captain Robert April, and then 5 years under Captain Christopher
Pike (later Fleet Commodore Pike) who included in his crew, a young vulcan
science
officer named Spock.
David Henderson
>There have been 6 NCC-1701 Enterprises for example...
erm... Taxi?
--
"The PM tells us, as George Bush himself might put it, that we have been
'misunderestimating' the President... the British people have seen and heard the
President and they think they are estimating him just about right as not a man
who we would want to be at the wheel... as we drive along the edge of a cliff"
--George Galloway MP