UK SMN Meeting anyone?
Andy Spark
Afternoon everyone.
I've been discussing this briefly with Andy Breen, and I thought I'd
ask the question would anyone in the UK SMN community be interested in
a meet at some point? - I don't have any specific ideas (Andy B
suggested either Portsmouth or Greenwich) or a timetable, (I suspect
probably after the school summer holidays) and I doubt that I would
have the time to organise such an event on my own: However, if you are
interested drop me a line at the reply to address, and I'll add up
numbers, and suggestions see if there's a worthwhile level of interest
and get back to you all in about a week:
Just to recap, if you are interested let me know.
a) Name/numbers
b) Suggestions as to where/what.
Of course anyone from anywhere else who might happen to be in the UK,
would be most welcome.
Thanks
Andrew Spark
Michael Smith
Mike (a Lurker)
"Andy Spark" <andy_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:210620021233132168%andy_...@hotmail.com...
Matt Clonfero
<andy_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've been discussing this briefly with Andy Breen, and I thought I'd
>ask the question would anyone in the UK SMN community be interested in
>a meet at some point? - I don't have any specific ideas (Andy B
>suggested either Portsmouth or Greenwich) or a timetable, (I suspect
>probably after the school summer holidays) and I doubt that I would
>have the time to organise such an event on my own: However, if you are
>interested drop me a line at the reply to address, and I'll add up
>numbers, and suggestions see if there's a worthwhile level of interest
>and get back to you all in about a week:
>
>Just to recap, if you are interested let me know.
>
>a) Name/numbers
>b) Suggestions as to where/what.
Could be interesting. How about the Maritime Museum at Greenwich or
Warrior in Portsmouth?
(BTW, what is the state of play with HMS Cavalier?)
Aetherem Vincere
Matt
--
To err is human
To forgive is not
Air Force Policy
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
Matt Clonfero <matt.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>In article <210620021233132168%andy_...@hotmail.com>, Andy Spark
><andy_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I've been discussing this briefly with Andy Breen, and I thought I'd
>>ask the question would anyone in the UK SMN community be interested in
>>a meet at some point? - I don't have any specific ideas (Andy B
>>suggested either Portsmouth or Greenwich) or a timetable, (I suspect
>>Just to recap, if you are interested let me know.
>>
>>a) Name/numbers
>>b) Suggestions as to where/what.
>
>Could be interesting. How about the Maritime Museum at Greenwich or
>Warrior in Portsmouth?
I'm certainly interested in this. Greenwich (Nat. Maritime Mus.)
or Portsmouth (Mary Rose, Victory, Warrior, Sub. Mus. at Gosport
and of course drinks in the Keppel's Head). Maybe Chatham as an
outside 3rd (I've not seen Gannet).
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
Matt Clonfero
<a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <VPvQXeA2...@ntlworld.com>,
>Matt Clonfero <matt.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>In article <210620021233132168%andy_...@hotmail.com>, Andy Spark
>><andy_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I've been discussing this briefly with Andy Breen, and I thought I'd
>>>ask the question would anyone in the UK SMN community be interested in
>>>a meet at some point? - I don't have any specific ideas (Andy B
>>>suggested either Portsmouth or Greenwich) or a timetable, (I suspect
>
>>>Just to recap, if you are interested let me know.
>>>
>>>a) Name/numbers
>>>b) Suggestions as to where/what.
>>
>>Could be interesting. How about the Maritime Museum at Greenwich or
>>Warrior in Portsmouth?
>
>I'm certainly interested in this. Greenwich (Nat. Maritime Mus.)
>or Portsmouth (Mary Rose, Victory, Warrior, Sub. Mus. at Gosport
>and of course drinks in the Keppel's Head). Maybe Chatham as an
>outside 3rd (I've not seen Gannet).
HMS Alliance? That could be fun. I'm waiting for the C-class boat to be
made into a museum at Devonport...
Brian Sharrock
"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:af4hjt$56jq$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
> In article <VPvQXeA2...@ntlworld.com>,
> Matt Clonfero <matt.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >In article <210620021233132168%andy_...@hotmail.com>, Andy Spark
> ><andy_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I've been discussing this briefly with Andy Breen, and I thought I'd
> >>ask the question would anyone in the UK SMN community be interested in
> >>a meet at some point? - I don't have any specific ideas (Andy B
> >>suggested either Portsmouth or Greenwich) or a timetable, (I suspect
>
>
> I'm certainly interested in this. (snip re Greenwich>
> or Portsmouth (Mary Rose, Victory, Warrior, Sub. Mus. at Gosport
> and of course drinks in the Keppel's Head).
AIUI, it's proposed to be a meet of Brits ... that itinerary
sounds like an American's "It's Turkey, it must be Tuesday!"
A civilised drink 'on the Hard' such occupy enough time
(snip re Chatham)
--
Brian
William Black
Matt Clonfero <Matt@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:v8Ju7LAu...@ntlworld.com...
It's an awful long walk if you live north of Derby...
How about a glass of grog on Hartlepool Historic Quay, or a pint under the
whale tusks at Whitby?
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Matt Clonfero
<black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> HMS Alliance? That could be fun. I'm waiting for the C-class boat to be
>> made into a museum at Devonport...
>
>It's an awful long walk if you live north of Derby...
You do? My commiserations...
(Just kidding)
>How about a glass of grog on Hartlepool Historic Quay, or a pint under the
>whale tusks at Whitby?
Any boats to see?
Mick Nicholson
not Greenwich - too difficult to get to. In order of preference Weymouth
(home!), Plymouth, Portsmouth.
-------------------------------
Mick Nicholson
I know don't know much, but I'm certain that I don't always know what I
think I know
William Black
Matt Clonfero <Matt@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> In article <af7kp1$fhs$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, William Black
> <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> HMS Alliance? That could be fun. I'm waiting for the C-class boat to be
> >> made into a museum at Devonport...
> >
> >It's an awful long walk if you live north of Derby...
>
> You do? My commiserations...
Thank you, I know we must seem very poor relations indeed.
Tell me again what you pay for housing/council tax/fish and chips/beer, I
didn't quite catch what you said ... :-)
>
> (Just kidding)
>
> >How about a glass of grog on Hartlepool Historic Quay, or a pint under
the
> >whale tusks at Whitby?
>
> Any boats to see?
Depends on the date. The replica of HMS Endevor is in Whitby at the moment.
At Hartlepool, well there's HMS Trincomalee
http://www.hms-trincomalee.co.uk/ and Wingfield Castle
http://www.thisishartlepool.com/museum/pss_wingfield_castle.html and a sort
of recreation of eighteenth century seaport life at the historic quay
http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/historicquay.shtml.
And no, I don't live in Hartlepool, I'd have an 80 mile drive to get
there.
Peter McLelland
"William Black" <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:af7kp1$fhs$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Peter
Sarah H
news:3d180f56$1...@pull.gecm.com...
There are always some nice closed maritime museums on the Essex coast ....
--
Sarah Hartwell
There is no sense in turning back, to wash the debris from the track
World without reason without rhyme, we fought for peace within our time
http://www.messybeast.com , http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk
All opinions expressed are mine alone
Eugene Griessel
>
>There are always some nice closed maritime museums on the Essex coast ....
>
Bring your own toast?
Eugene L Griessel www.dynagen.co.za/eugene
SAAF Crashboat History www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/guybook.html
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because
they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous
sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
Neil Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
Peter McLelland
"Sarah H" <shar...@shartwell.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3d181768$1...@pull.gecm.com...
pub.
Peter
Peter D Rieden
> Thank you, I know we must seem very poor relations indeed.
>
> Tell me again what you pay for housing/council tax/fish and chips/beer, I
> didn't quite catch what you said ... :-)
True, but the alternative would be to live in the uncharted wilderness north of
the M25. Some prices are worth paying...<G>
PDR
Peter McLelland
"Peter D Rieden" <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote in message
news:3d184991$1...@pull.gecm.com...
better places, and most in my experience are north of the M25, in fact
almost all real life is north of the M25.
Peter
Sarah H
> Having tried the 'terribly nice' home counties I can assure you there are
> better places, and most in my experience are north of the M25, in fact
> almost all real life is north of the M25.
There's real life to the west of it just before you reach Wales. And
surreal life further west before you fall off the Welsh coast <G>
A Robson
>....... the alternative would be to live in the uncharted wilderness
north of
> the M25. Some prices are worth paying...<G>
>
>
Have some good friends who are born & bred Southerners from South of
the M25 who've lived happily here in the NW for many years. A few
years ago they decided to move back down to the SE but couldn't stand
it. They quickly moved back up here where they prefer the friendlier
people and more relaxed, less "rat race" like lifestyle. Wild horses
wouldn't drag them back South of the M25 again now :-)
DJC
We've got half of Greenwich here anyway!
ok ta
DJC
M.J.Powell
eserve.co.uk> writes
As we say in Wales: 'The Wogs begin at Chepstow'.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
William Black
Been there, done that, moved back to Yorkshire.
Matt Clonfero
<Mick_Ni...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>I would be interested, I could make most places in the south but preferably
>not Greenwich - too difficult to get to. In order of preference Weymouth
>(home!), Plymouth, Portsmouth.
Doesn't the train run direct from Weymouth to London anymore?
Matt Clonfero
<black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> You do? My commiserations...
>
>Thank you, I know we must seem very poor relations indeed.
>
>Tell me again what you pay for housing/council tax/fish and chips/beer, I
>didn't quite catch what you said ... :-)
Well, the houses are dear, but you don't half make money on them fast.
At the current rate, anyone with a four bedroom house in Surrey will
soon be able to buy most of Scotland with some cash left over...
As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
>> >How about a glass of grog on Hartlepool Historic Quay, or a pint under
>the
>> >whale tusks at Whitby?
>>
>> Any boats to see?
>
>Depends on the date. The replica of HMS Endevor is in Whitby at the moment.
>
> At Hartlepool, well there's HMS Trincomalee
>http://www.hms-trincomalee.co.uk/ and Wingfield Castle
>http://www.thisishartlepool.com/museum/pss_wingfield_castle.html and a sort
>of recreation of eighteenth century seaport life at the historic quay
>http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/historicquay.shtml.
>
>And no, I don't live in Hartlepool, I'd have an 80 mile drive to get
>there.
I think that it would take me all day to get there... Perhaps we should
go for a Northern & Southern division, and raise a glass at the same
time?
Pyers
> In article <af8032$52s$1...@paris.btinternet.com>, Mick Nicholson
> <Mick_Ni...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>I would be interested, I could make most places in the south but preferably
>>not Greenwich - too difficult to get to. In order of preference Weymouth
>>(home!), Plymouth, Portsmouth.
>
>
> Doesn't the train run direct from Weymouth to London anymore?
>
> Aetherem Vincere
> Matt
yup it does
Pyers
Peter McLelland
"Matt Clonfero" <Matt@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> In article <af84ce$qsh$1...@helle.btinternet.com>, William Black
> <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> You do? My commiserations...
> >
> >Thank you, I know we must seem very poor relations indeed.
> >
> >Tell me again what you pay for housing/council tax/fish and chips/beer,
I
> >didn't quite catch what you said ... :-)
>
> Well, the houses are dear, but you don't half make money on them fast.
> At the current rate, anyone with a four bedroom house in Surrey will
> soon be able to buy most of Scotland with some cash left over...
You haven't seen the Edinburgh prices lately then.
>
> As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
Money can't by you love, or sanity.
Peter
Peter D Rieden
> Well, the houses are dear, but you don't half make money on them fast.
> At the current rate, anyone with a four bedroom house in Surrey will
> soon be able to buy most of Scotland with some cash left over...
Maybe. In my case I bought a house in Surrey in 92 for £70k and sold it when I
got married in 97 for £100k to buy a largish place in Hants for £170k. In Feb 01
we sold that for £290k and bought a slightly smaller place in Surrey (to
possition ourselves for the best schools for the offspring) for £310k. This
house is currently valued at around £380k-390k. It's rediculous and
unsustainable, and we are getting seriously tempted to move back to where we
were in Hants because the house prices there are such that we could have
something almost as big as we had before but with a mortgage of less than
£20k...
> As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
Ah. Could I possibly trouble you to write to my employer to explain this concept
of "higher wages down south" - he doesn't seem to have heard of it (has he
Paul!).
PDR
Peter D Rieden
>
> > As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
>
> Money can't by you love, or sanity.
True, but I'm reminded of what Rosanne Barr once said:
"People are always telling me that Poor & Happy is better than Rich & Unhappy.
This may be true, but in the real world those aren't the breaks. The usual
choices are Rich & Unhappy or Poor & Unhappy and having tried both you can take
it from me - poor sucks!"
PDR
Peter D Rieden
>
> Doesn't the train run direct from Weymouth to London anymore?
"A train that runs in the UK"...hmmm...nope, no matter how hard I try I can't
remember seeing one of those...
PDR
Peter McLelland
south on higher salaries, etc I returned home for less money and sanity.
Peter
Eugene Griessel
I guess we are talking "less wealthy" rather than "please spare me a
stale crust of bread poor" here?
Peter McLelland
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@.dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
news:3d19952a...@news.iafrica.com...
> "Peter McLelland" <peter.m...@baesystems.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Peter D Rieden" <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote in message
> >news:3d1985d4$1...@pull.gecm.com...
> >> "Peter McLelland" <peter.m...@baesystems.com> wrote in message
> >> news:3d19753a$1...@pull.gecm.com...
> >> >
> >> > > As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
> >> >
> >> > Money can't by you love, or sanity.
> >>
> >> True, but I'm reminded of what Rosanne Barr once said:
> >>
> >> "People are always telling me that Poor & Happy is better than Rich &
> >Unhappy.
> >> This may be true, but in the real world those aren't the breaks. The
usual
> >> choices are Rich & Unhappy or Poor & Unhappy and having tried both you
can
> >take
> >> it from me - poor sucks!"
> >>
> >Point taken, but love and sanity makes poor bearable. After 10 years in
the
> >south on higher salaries, etc I returned home for less money and sanity.
>
> I guess we are talking "less wealthy" rather than "please spare me a
> stale crust of bread poor" here?
>
almost survive on the pittance that passes as a project mangers salary here
in the Athens of the North. Wild horses and money would probably never temp
me into the south of England again.
Peter
Andy Ashworth
> In article <af84ce$qsh$1...@helle.btinternet.com>, William Black
> <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> You do? My commiserations...
>>
>> Thank you, I know we must seem very poor relations indeed.
>>
>> Tell me again what you pay for housing/council tax/fish and
>> chips/beer, I didn't quite catch what you said ... :-)
>
> Well, the houses are dear, but you don't half make money on them fast.
> At the current rate, anyone with a four bedroom house in Surrey will
> soon be able to buy most of Scotland with some cash left over...
>
> As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
Not in my opinion....
Let's see, I lived in Mid-Sussex from 1992 to 1997 - we chose where lived to
ensure that we could afford a reasonable sized property within commuting
distance of London. During 1996/7 my wife was working in Dartford and I was
working in Addleston nr Weybridge. Due to public transport ONLY going to
London this meant we both had to drive to work - an aggregate journey of 200
miles per day, or 1000 miles per week. Even assuming the M23/M25 manages an
average speed of 50mph (very optimistic) that's a total of 20 hours each
week that my wife and I spent in our cars on top of the 40+ hours that we
were working.
Leaving the South East was probably the best life-decision I ever took for
my own health and well-being - the trouble was, when you're immersed in that
way of life, you don't recognise how destructive it can be.
>
> I think that it would take me all day to get there... Perhaps we
> should go for a Northern & Southern division, and raise a glass at
> the same time?
How about a Western division too?
--
Andy
Stephen Shepherd
> Leaving the South East was probably the best life-decision I ever took for
> my own health and well-being - the trouble was, when you're immersed in that
> way of life, you don't recognise how destructive it can be.
>
Yes, indeed it can be soul destroying. Gave up a good job in London as I got
fed up of the 1 1/2 hour commute to London from the South coast every day.
Stress free - just lengthy. However, if you work outside of London and its
immediate confines it's not bad. I had to commute to Farnborough and Hook (from
Fareham - south coast, nr Portsmouth) for a year, and that was a 45-60 minute
journey, not to bad, but now working only 4 miles down the road. Ideal! Nice
weather, solent on the doorstep, good communications.
Paul J. Adam
<peter....@baesystems.com> writes
>"Matt Clonfero" <Matt@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:rWKPBXAu...@ntlworld.com...
>
>Ah. Could I possibly trouble you to write to my employer to
>explain this concept
>of "higher wages down south" - he doesn't seem to have heard of it (has he
>Paul!).
It's not particularly noticeable...
--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill
Paul J. Adam ne...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk
Kerryn Offord
Peter D Rieden wrote:
>
> "Matt Clonfero" <Matt@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:rWKPBXAu...@ntlworld.com...
>
> > Well, the houses are dear, but you don't half make money on them fast.
> > At the current rate, anyone with a four bedroom house in Surrey will
> > soon be able to buy most of Scotland with some cash left over...
>
> Maybe. In my case I bought a house in Surrey in 92 for £70k and sold it when I
> got married in 97 for £100k to buy a largish place in Hants for £170k. In Feb 01
> we sold that for £290k and bought a slightly smaller place in Surrey (to
> possition ourselves for the best schools for the offspring) for £310k. This
> house is currently valued at around £380k-390k. It's rediculous and
> unsustainable, and we are getting seriously tempted to move back to where we
> were in Hants because the house prices there are such that we could have
> something almost as big as we had before but with a mortgage of less than
> £20k...
Didn't this happen a few years ago.. house prices started to increase at
>inflation rates. Then the bubble burst and a lot of people were left with "overpriced" houses on mortgages that they couldn't afford and falling equity (resulting in forced mortgagee sales).
If you are starting to think the price increases are unsustainable you
might be right (other people are probably thinking the same). Now is
probably the time to sell out and reduce your mortgage to that 20k
pounds.
Of course this could be just like the over valued US stock market....
they had been saying for years that it was unsustainable... but it was
another 2-3 years before the bubble burst.....maybe you "can" safely
hold on for another 2-3 years and still sell out and buy a cheaper house
reducing your mortgage.
OTOH what happens if you are caught in your current house when the
bubble bursts?
Keith Willshaw
"Kerryn Offord" <ka...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:3D1A4D16...@student.canterbury.ac.nz...
> Didn't this happen a few years ago.. house prices started to increase at
>inflation rates. Then the bubble burst and a lot of people were left with
> "overpriced" houses on mortgages that they couldn't afford and
> falling equity (resulting in forced mortgagee sales).
Yep , that only lasted for a few years before the next surge though
> If you are starting to think the price increases are unsustainable you
> might be right (other people are probably thinking the same). Now is
> probably the time to sell out and reduce your mortgage to that 20k
> pounds.
Trouble is you either have somewhere else to live
to buy at the high price, moved to a cheaper area
or rent.
> Of course this could be just like the over valued US stock market....
> they had been saying for years that it was unsustainable... but it was
> another 2-3 years before the bubble burst.....maybe you "can" safely
> hold on for another 2-3 years and still sell out and buy a cheaper house
> reducing your mortgage.
Unless you change location you wont find a cheaper house
and that may involve commuter costs that eat the difference
During the last big property surge I had a colleague who did as
you suggested and moved to Wales.
> OTOH what happens if you are caught in your current
> house when the bubble bursts?
for the 95% of people who's mortgage is still less than
the current value of the property nothing at all.
Even if you have negative equity the best bet is to sit tight
and keep paying the mortgage. You need somewhere to
live after all and the situation will last for a few years.
Bad problems really only hit last time around cause interest
rates soared and unemployment rose at the same
time as the price collapsed.
Keith
A Robson
> >
> > Didn't this happen a few years ago.. house prices started to
increase at
> >inflation rates. Then the bubble burst and a lot of people were
left with
> > "overpriced" houses on mortgages that they couldn't afford and
> > falling equity (resulting in forced mortgagee sales).
> >
>
> Yep , that only lasted for a few years before the next surge though.
>
It all depends on whereabouts you live in the UK. Bought our house in
the boom in 1990, and it's *still* worth less than we paid for it then
12 years later !!!!
William Black
> Well, there were times when it felt like spare a crust, but in reality I
can
> almost survive on the pittance that passes as a project mangers salary
here
> in the Athens of the North. Wild horses and money would probably never
temp
> me into the south of England again.
Me neither.
I'm not leaving the seaside for the big smoke, or even the smaller smokes
dotted around the country.
I left the big city and the big money almost twenty years ago and have never
regretted it for one moment.
Matt Clonfero
<peter....@baesystems.com> wrote:
>> Doesn't the train run direct from Weymouth to London anymore?
>
>"A train that runs in the UK"...hmmm...nope, no matter how hard I try I can't
>remember seeing one of those...
Now that's cynical...
Matt Clonfero
<peter....@baesystems.com> wrote:
>Maybe. In my case I bought a house in Surrey in 92 for £70k and sold it when I
>got married in 97 for £100k to buy a largish place in Hants for £170k. In Feb 01
>we sold that for £290k and bought a slightly smaller place in Surrey (to
>possition ourselves for the best schools for the offspring) for £310k. This
>house is currently valued at around £380k-390k. It's rediculous and
>unsustainable, and we are getting seriously tempted to move back to where we
>were in Hants because the house prices there are such that we could have
>something almost as big as we had before but with a mortgage of less than
>£20k...
Ridiculous? Probably. Unsustainable? I Dunno. The houses are still
selling, and the interest rates are still low - even if they do sneak up
by one percent. Certainly, the rate of increase cannot go on for ever at
this speed.
>> As for the rest, the higher wages down here seem to compensate...
>
>Ah. Could I possibly trouble you to write to my employer to explain this concept
>of "higher wages down south" - he doesn't seem to have heard of it (has he
>Paul!).
Seeing as your employer tends to ignore me when I write specifications
or task sheets; I doubt that they will pay me the slightest heed if I
write to them about staff conditions.
(Btw, the comment was based on my remembrance of the IEE salary survey
data).
Matt Clonfero
Shepherd <shep...@TakeThisOut.bcs.org.uk.INVALID> wrote:
I've got very little sympathy for commuters who complain. Having
completed a 2.25 year posting to London a couple of years back, I can
honestly say that it was no great issue - Most days, it took me 50
minutes to get to work, door to door, and 40 to get back. The trains
were reasonable - snooze on the way in, read a book on the way home.
Peter D Rieden
"Matt Clonfero" <Matt@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> In article <3d198609$1...@pull.gecm.com>, Peter D Rieden
> <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote:
> >> Doesn't the train run direct from Weymouth to London anymore?
> >
> >"A train that runs in the UK"...hmmm...nope, no matter how hard I try I can't
> >remember seeing one of those...
>
> Now that's cynical...
It's in my job description.
PDR
Andy Ashworth
> In article <3d198609$1...@pull.gecm.com>, Peter D Rieden
> <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote:
>>> Doesn't the train run direct from Weymouth to London anymore?
>>
>> "A train that runs in the UK"...hmmm...nope, no matter how hard I
>> try I can't remember seeing one of those...
>
> Now that's cynical...
>
There's a very fine line between cynicism and realism - in this case I feel
the comment falls just within "cynicism"; if however the comment had read "a
train in the UK that runs on time....." then no lines would have been
crossed!
--
Andy
Eugene Griessel
And what would you like for your birthday Johnny?
A train set just like BR please, daddy!
Wouldn't you rather prefer one that worked?
Peter D Rieden
news:afh5op$dvv36$1...@ID-49732.news.dfncis.de...
>
> There's a very fine line between cynicism and realism - in this case I feel
> the comment falls just within "cynicism"; if however the comment had read "a
> train in the UK that runs on time....." then no lines would have been
> crossed!
Of course one is exaggerating, but on the two previous occaisions I have
attempted to use a train it has been an utter disaster. I needed to get to one
of our northern sites for a meeting in the days shortly after sept-11th last
year, and our normal internal shuttle aircraft were grounded due to security
constraints. I decided that rather than do my usual 5-hour drive I would "let
the train take the strain" via a 40 minute run to Waterloo followed by a 3 hour
run from Euston to Preston. The Farnborough-Waterloo train was cancelled, twice.
I finally got to Euston 90 mins late and caught the Preston train only to have
it too grind to a halt about 30 minutes out. By this time I was running out of
options so I hired a car for the rest of the journey.
Then a few weeks later I was taking the family for a weekend in London (taking
advantage of a free stay at my bro-in-law's 5-star hotel in the west end). We
thought that having a car in the west end for a weekend was something of a
liability, so again we attempted to get a train. The first one was canecelled
(no driver) and the second was late, leaving us standing on a platform with my
duaghters (one 4yrs and the other 2yrs) getting frantic because they had been
promised a train ride. We finally loaded the kids, luggage and all the kids
support gear (push chairs etc) onto the train only to find it terminated at
(IIRC) Woking and we were thrown off to await a replacement. When it arrived it
was essentially full, and we had to stand in a corridor with luggage and kids
all the way to Waterloo. The whole experience consumed several hours for which
we had planned several excursions, and was so stressful that I get almost
physically violent when some sanctimoneous prat (not anyone here, but there's
always one in every room!) suggest that I'm being selfish and eco-hostile when I
drive my family into London. The way I see it I have a choice - I can torture my
kids by using the train or I can rip the still-living gonads from those who
suggest I shouldn't use my car. Hmmm...something of a no-brainer IMHO!!!!
Some people suggest that the UK has a public transport system like that of (say)
Matabeleland. This is of course grossly unfair. We need to have at least a
decade of high investment and close management before we could aspire to such a
service...
PDR
Peter McLelland
"Peter D Rieden" <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote in message
news:3d1c23f3$1...@pull.gecm.com...
What chaufeurs day off, I thought you southern estate owners didn't believe
in staff holidays.
As an occasional user of the Farnborough/London service I can honestly say
that I have never suffered similar problems, I suspect that there is some
collusion between you estate staff and the nice chaps on the railway, and
that you are being picked on. I am quite sure that if you did act
responsibly, and used the train a bit more, you would find that it does
function occasionaly. (of course I am hoping that the 500 mile separation,
plus your dislike of the north will protect my gonads)
>
> Some people suggest that the UK has a public transport system like that of
(say)
> Matabeleland. This is of course grossly unfair. We need to have at least a
> decade of high investment and close management before we could aspire to
such a
> service...
>
Having chosen to locate your estate in the south you do have to accept the
other benefits that come with such a desirable location.
Peter
Sarah H
> on the two previous occaisions I have
> attempted to use a train it has been an utter disaster.
I regularly travel between Chelmsford/Shenfield & Bristol (via Liverpool
Street, London Underground & Paddington) and the rail service has so far
been pretty good. Sometimes delays on return journey between Liverpool St
and Chelmsford, but not disastrous.
--
Sarah H
http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk
All opinions expressed are mine alone
Vince Brannigan
Sarah H wrote:
> "Peter D Rieden" <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote
>
> > on the two previous occaisions I have
> > attempted to use a train it has been an utter disaster.
>
> I regularly travel between Chelmsford/Shenfield & Bristol (via Liverpool
> Street, London Underground & Paddington) and the rail service has so far
> been pretty good. Sometimes delays on return journey between Liverpool St
> and Chelmsford, but not disastrous.
>
I went to visit Paul and Hazel in Havant. I was taking the much touted
rail/bus connection to Heathrow over IIRC Woking" im on the train and we stop
in a station just sought of woking. We wait for 5 minutes and then an
announcement comes on that the train has been "retimed" and will depart in 20
minutes. This will of course cause me to miss the buss connection. I collar
the nearest official looking person and make what might be called a "fuss"
It went somethign like this
me What does it mean to "re time" the train
OLP that measn ti leave at a different time.
Me Do they retime the bus?
OLP no I dont think so
ME So we are just late?
OLPno, its not late its been retimed
ME YOU MEAN YOU ARE DOING THIS ON PURPOSE, ITS NOT AN ACCIDENT OR ANYTHNG?
OLP Thats correct. if we were late we woudl have to report that we were
late. if we retime the train its on "on time"
ME Who are the Auditors , arthur anderson?
OLP now dont get like that sir
ME How about calling the bus and gettting them to retime to continue the link
OLP im not sure I can do that for only one peron
Attractive lady says "I want to get on that bust too"
OLP Ok he says, since there are two of you Ill call.
OLP went off and returned saying they willhold the bus for you.
As we got of the traint he attractive lady said to me
"have a nice ride to the airport" and left.
like Blanche Dubois, "i've always depended on the kindness of strangers"
Vince
Andy Ashworth
> "Peter D Rieden" <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote
>
>> on the two previous occaisions I have
>> attempted to use a train it has been an utter disaster.
>
> I regularly travel between Chelmsford/Shenfield & Bristol (via
> Liverpool Street, London Underground & Paddington) and the rail
> service has so far been pretty good. Sometimes delays on return
> journey between Liverpool St and Chelmsford, but not disastrous.
I used to regularly travel on LastLateWestern's service between Chippenham &
Bath, which is a small portion of their "London to South Wales via Bristol"
route. It was frequently seriously delayed (as a %age of journey time)
and/or cancelled; the rolling stock is old and usually dirty; the staff on
the trains and ticket barriers were rude and aggressive regarding "revenue
protection". The route from Paddington to Bristol is fine as a long-distance
Intercity route, but as a commuter service, it sucks! Overall my rail travel
experience was not worth the total cost of in excess of £7/day (car park +
ticket) that I was paying for a ten minute / twelve mile journey - I now use
a motorbike and even in the depths of winter when its puring down with cold
horizontal rain, I still have no desire to return to the railways.
--
Andy
Stephen Shepherd
I agree with you Matt, which is why I said 45 mins to 1 hr 1 way wasn't too bad.
It's when it gets to 1 1/2 hour minimum each way (in fact looking back on it,
including journey each end, it was 2 hour minimum each way) that you realise a
significant proportion of your day gets eaten away.
Peter D Rieden
news:3D1C3D17...@verizon.net...
>We wait for 5 minutes and then an announcement comes on that the train has been
"retimed"
> and will depart in 20 minutes.
To which your respnse should have been "In that case I have decided this train
should be 're-fared' downwards by Ł200 - I'll accept cash, gonads or use of your
18yr-old daughter for the weekend"
> Attractive lady says "I want to get on that bust too"
Fnar, fnar!
PDR
William Black
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@.dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>
> And what would you like for your birthday Johnny?
>
> A train set just like BR please, daddy!
>
> Wouldn't you rather prefer one that worked?
Somehow the current bunch of incompetent buffoons running the railways have
transformed BR from a dreadful joke into a much missed old auntie.
It's the greatest achievement in PR since we learned we "mustn't hate the
Germans" in about 1968.
William Black
"Sarah H" <shar...@shartwell.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3d1c2869$1...@pull.gecm.com...
> "Peter D Rieden" <peter....@baesystems.com> wrote
>
> > on the two previous occaisions I have
> > attempted to use a train it has been an utter disaster.
>
> I regularly travel between Chelmsford/Shenfield & Bristol (via Liverpool
> Street, London Underground & Paddington) and the rail service has so far
> been pretty good. Sometimes delays on return journey between Liverpool St
> and Chelmsford, but not disastrous.
>
Try travelling from London to Scarborough some time, or the other way
round.
Time normally spent moving; about four hours
Total journey time: Average seven hours, maximum so far in last twelve
months, nine and one half hours.
London it now faster and more comfortable by car, and I drive a Land Rover!
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
William Black <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@.dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>news:3d1c1f1b...@news.iafrica.com...
>
>>
>> And what would you like for your birthday Johnny?
>>
>> A train set just like BR please, daddy!
>>
>> Wouldn't you rather prefer one that worked?
>
>Somehow the current bunch of incompetent buffoons running the railways have
>transformed BR from a dreadful joke into a much missed old auntie.
>
Cough. BR were *bloody* good. Hopelessly under-resourced, but bloody
good. What we have in front of us now is the magical achievement of
a bunch of "free-market" bigots and fsckwits and the glorious private
sector in taking a world-class (yes, and I include Germany here - I've
lived there: BR did it better than DB, by and large) railway and wrecking
it to satisfy their own despicable political agenda. But then, what
else can one expect of the tapeworm party[1]?
The amazing thing is that it still works as well as it does. Still
quite usable long-haul, and beats the hell out of driving. The ethos
of public service lives on, and has even survived the last 10 years and
the toxic effect of Branson, Sherwood et al.
Andy, who's used the railways as his prime means of transport for the
last 15-16 years or so and - on this at least - knows of what he speaks.
[1] THe Conservative and Unionist Party, to give it its less flattering
name. Thank you to Iain Banks for that one..
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
If God had intended people to program in C++
he wouldn't have invented FORTRAN (Keith Willshaw)
Alan Minyard
<black_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@.dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>news:3d1c1f1b...@news.iafrica.com...
>
>>
>> And what would you like for your birthday Johnny?
>>
>> A train set just like BR please, daddy!
>>
>> Wouldn't you rather prefer one that worked?
>
>Somehow the current bunch of incompetent buffoons running the railways have
>transformed BR from a dreadful joke into a much missed old auntie.
>
>It's the greatest achievement in PR since we learned we "mustn't hate the
>Germans" in about 1968.
Good Lord!! Do you mean that the fine folks of Fawlty Towers got it
wrong????
Al Minyard
Sarah H
> I used to regularly travel on LastLateWestern's service between Chippenham
&
> Bath, which is a small portion of their "London to South Wales via
Bristol"
> route. It was frequently seriously delayed (as a %age of journey time)
> and/or cancelled; the rolling stock is old and usually dirty; the staff on
> the trains and ticket barriers were rude and aggressive regarding
"revenue
> protection".
I found it to be quite luxurious, even in standard class. 2 carriages
designated as "quiet areas" with no personal stereos of mobile phones (I
don't use those carriages, I like music when I travel, but low volume/good
headset so it doesn't irritate fellow passengers); buffet car doing
reasonable food; tidy carriages with my pre-booked seat.
> The route from Paddington to Bristol is fine as a long-distance
> Intercity route, but as a commuter service, it sucks!
I only do the Intercity version. Chelmsford to Liverpool St is a commuter
service and it's often (over)crowded and sometimes grubby, but never had
rude staff nor ancient trains. Until they put ticket barrers at the
stations I could have done the whole journey without a ticket! Worst
journey was to York - the train was a footie supporters' train complete with
torn seats and ominous stains in carriages.
Eugene Griessel
>I only do the Intercity version. Chelmsford to Liverpool St is a commuter
>service and it's often (over)crowded and sometimes grubby, but never had
>rude staff nor ancient trains. Until they put ticket barrers at the
>stations I could have done the whole journey without a ticket! Worst
>journey was to York - the train was a footie supporters' train complete with
>torn seats and ominous stains in carriages.
A lady friend of mine of pedagogical persuasion now resident in the
wilds north of London had the misfortune to find herself, quite
innocently, on a footie supporters train. She described the graphic
wall decorations - regurgital art it turned out - and the fact that
the floor had been liberally substituted for a urinal (and one of the
corners for something even worse). I thought at the time she was
exaggerating somewhat but reading the current discussion perhaps she
wasn't?
Peter McLelland
"ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:afibjl$a6vu$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
some areas the there was some ethos of public service, but in many the
public were only an annoyance to be put up with in order to get their wages.
I too used rail extensively for a number of years, and still do from time to
time. I would agree with your comments about DB and include SNCF as well,
although this is based on limited sampling.
The problem is that in many areas you have a combination of the failed
incompetent management of BR still trying to do the job and still failing.
I would agree that the model of privatisation that was used was flawed and
the worst part was the creation of railtrack which should never have been
privatised. Many problems are also due to the franchise period and the
method in which operating companies were forced to lease rolling stock.
Peter
Mark Borgerson
I took the (Western??) train from Gatwick to Portsmouth on my trip last March.
It was on time, reasonably priced and reasonably clean. Cost
about $10US more than the motor coach I took on my return
trip--And the motor coach went all the way into Victoria
Station.
SNCF was clean, comfortable and fast. I took the trains from
St. Malo to Brest, Brest to Paris and back to St. Malo.
In a two week trip, the only time I spent in an automobile
was a two-hour tour of the Brittany coast with a client,
and a 5-minute cab ride from ferry dock to train station.
All the rest was on trains or subways. You can do that
in Paris and London and points between. I can't envision
doing the same in most US cities.
Not having to worry about parking, fuel costs and urban driving
habits of the locals, (to say nothing of that other-side-of
the-street thing) made my tour of the naval and military
museums truly enjoyable!
Back to topic---it's nice to see potential meetings being
discussed. Some of us self-employed or retired types
may have the option to schedule travel to coincide with
interesting gatherings such as an SMN conclave!
Mark Borgerson
Eugene Griessel
>All the rest was on trains or subways. You can do that
>in Paris and London and points between. I can't envision
>doing the same in most US cities.
Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
cheaper to fly. As if they wanted to scare people away.
George Shirley
Congress probably won't subsidize them much longer. Worse day for us train riders is when Congress
critters let the railroads do away with passenger trains and go strictly to handling the much more
profitable freight.
As a wee laddie back in the forties and fifties I rode trains from coast to coast and up and down
the country several times. Enlisted in the Navy in 1957 and was sent from the Gulf Coast to the Left
Coast for boot camp via train and then flew home, my first flight ever, preferred the train. I do
miss the trains and often envied the Europeans and the Brits for their trains going everywhere.
George
John Halliwell
<black_...@hotmail.com> writes
>London it now faster and more comfortable by car, and I drive a Land Rover!
I once had the 'pleasure' of a 12 hour trip from Preston to Farnborough
(airshow) in a Landy (knackered 2.25 diesel 109). We left at lunch time,
had several stops (we were camping so the frying pan and kettle were put
to good use throughout). It took 6 hours to get to Birmingham, we got
lost around Oxford, arrived at the campsite around mid-night. Pitched
the tent by the headlights of the Landy (and the dulcet tones of the
engine to stop the battery going flat). We made many friends on the
campsite that night!
--
John
Preston, Lancs, UK.
Matt Clonfero
<peter....@baesystems.com> wrote:
>> Now that's cynical...
>
>It's in my job description.
Snap!
Jack Love
Griessel) wrote:
>Mark Borgerson <ma...@oes.to> wrote:
>
>>All the rest was on trains or subways. You can do that
>>in Paris and London and points between. I can't envision
>>doing the same in most US cities.
>
>Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
>book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
>cheaper to fly. As if they wanted to scare people away.
It was true! My folks, in retirement, tried to book a cross country
compartment...and ended up saying "We didn't actually want to buy the
train."
Mark Borgerson
Eugene Griessel wrote:
>
> Mark Borgerson <ma...@oes.to> wrote:
>
> >All the rest was on trains or subways. You can do that
> >in Paris and London and points between. I can't envision
> >doing the same in most US cities.
>
> Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
> book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
> cheaper to fly. As if they wanted to scare people away.
Since sometime in that era, there has been only one US passenger
railway--AMTRAK.
We have an inexpensive and useful service between Eugene Oregon
and Seattle, Washington that runs several times per day on new
Spanish Talgo hardware. It is making money and increasing
its ridership. It is well promoted in the press and on
TV. The longer distance trains like the Empire
Builder (Chicago to Portland) and the other cross-country
routes are losing money and are dependent on freight lines
for their tracks. Congress has given them another short-term
bailout. I suspect Amtrack will never be competitive with
air travel for the longer routes---cross-country trains
work better when a trip take three or four hours instead
of thirty to fifty!
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
Jack Love wrote:
>
> On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:39:58 GMT, eugene@.dynagen..co..za (Eugene
> Griessel) wrote:
>
> >Mark Borgerson <ma...@oes.to> wrote:
> >
> >>All the rest was on trains or subways. You can do that
> >>in Paris and London and points between. I can't envision
> >>doing the same in most US cities.
> >
> >Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
> >book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
> >cheaper to fly. As if they wanted to scare people away.
>
> It was true! My folks, in retirement, tried to book a cross country
> compartment...and ended up saying "We didn't actually want to buy the
> train."
>
I took my family (wife and 2 young kids) from Portland Oregon
to Minneapolis, Minnesota several years back. Round trip
was about $2500 IIRC. We had a single large family bedroom.
Air Fare, parking and another night of hotels would have
been about half the price if we'd shopped around a bit.
But our daughter was only about 3 months old and our
son was 4. The train was much easier to handle with
very young kids. Track on the last night into
Minneapolis was so rough, it reminded me of being
at sea in rough weather! Heads would roll if a
French train ever got that rough!
Mark Borgerson