A word I used to know but can't remember....
Emyric Pidgeon
I'm kind of new here, but I'm thrilled to find such a
newsgroup!
I thought this might be the appropriate place to ask if anyone
could help me find a lost word. I don't know where else to look for
it.
See, the other day a friend of mine mentioned the word
"Chimera," and noted its ties to Greek mythology. This confused me
because I had thought the word derived from some sort of Frech wedding
celebration, involving lots of noise.
What word am I thinking of?? Since I now know it's not
"Chimera," I've been able to get my memory to suggest "Chammery" or
"Shamra" but I can't find those in any dictionary either.
Can anyone help me out here? This puzzle has been taking up
more and more of my concentration, and there's no end in sight!
- Em
R H Draney
>
> See, the other day a friend of mine mentioned the word
>"Chimera," and noted its ties to Greek mythology. This confused me
>because I had thought the word derived from some sort of Frech wedding
>celebration, involving lots of noise.
> What word am I thinking of?? Since I now know it's not
>"Chimera," I've been able to get my memory to suggest "Chammery" or
>"Shamra" but I can't find those in any dictionary either.
>
> Can anyone help me out here? This puzzle has been taking up
>more and more of my concentration, and there's no end in sight!
"Shivaree", apparently derived from "chivalry" which I guess is ultimately
French....
There's even a reference to the practice in the libretto of "Oklahoma!"....r
--
Ceci ne pas un sandwich.
Robert Lipton
Emyric Pidgeon wrote:
>
> Hi y'all...
> I'm kind of new here, but I'm thrilled to find such a
> newsgroup!
>
> I thought this might be the appropriate place to ask if anyone
> could help me find a lost word. I don't know where else to look for
> it.
>
> See, the other day a friend of mine mentioned the word
> "Chimera," and noted its ties to Greek mythology. This confused me
> because I had thought the word derived from some sort of Frech wedding
> celebration, involving lots of noise.
> What word am I thinking of?? Since I now know it's not
> "Chimera," I've been able to get my memory to suggest "Chammery" or
> "Shamra" but I can't find those in any dictionary either.
Shivaree or Chivaree from the French 'charivari'.
Bob
Richard Fontana
> See, the other day a friend of mine mentioned the word
> "Chimera," and noted its ties to Greek mythology. This confused me
> because I had thought the word derived from some sort of Frech wedding
> celebration, involving lots of noise.
> What word am I thinking of?? Since I now know it's not
> "Chimera," I've been able to get my memory to suggest "Chammery" or
> "Shamra" but I can't find those in any dictionary either.
>
> Can anyone help me out here? This puzzle has been taking up
> more and more of my concentration, and there's no end in sight!
"Charivari" or "shivaree" or something like that.
BTW I've heard a few people mispronounce chimera as /'SImR@/
("SHIMmera") instead of the proper /kaI'mEr@/ ("kye-MERra") ("merry" vowel
in the second syllable).
Garry J. Vass
news:q06sst42j9grt6ion...@4ax.com...
> Hi y'all...
> I'm kind of new here, but I'm thrilled to find such a
> newsgroup!
>
Hello Em, welcome to aue!
>
> See, the other day a friend of mine mentioned the word
> "Chimera," and noted its ties to Greek mythology. This confused me
> because I had thought the word derived from some sort of Frech wedding
> celebration, involving lots of noise.
> What word am I thinking of?? Since I now know it's not
> "Chimera," I've been able to get my memory to suggest "Chammery" or
> "Shamra" but I can't find those in any dictionary either.
>
While no one can tell *exactly* which word you once knew, you might consider
the word "shallal", which is a serenade of kettles and pans given to a
notorious wedding couple', corresponding to 'rough music'. It sort of
sounds alike, if you're in the "Chimera" is pronounced like "Chimney" world
(which I'm *not*, by the way).
This wouldn't be of French origin tho', but rather Welsh. Which, of course,
brings us back to sheep...
"Chimera", on the other hand, comes from the Greek "little she-goat" and is
thought to personify a volcano in ancient Lycia, fire breathing and all
that, which has the same name and the notion that the mythical Chimera and
the volcano share the same name as a matter of mere coinkydink is highly
improbable.
A nice addition to the Perseus/Bellerophon archetypal myth of the epoch
struggle between law and destiny. But, alas, that's another thread. Where
is a1a when you need him? Or anybody else for that matter. Sigh...
Getting back to the noisy wedding thing, (As Lucy said, "There will be no
nuptials until *after* the ceremony), the best ten-dollar word if you can't
recover the "Chimera" thingie is "perstreperous", which means to make noise.
Hope this helps!
Kind regards,
GJV
N.Mitchum
----
> > the other day a friend of mine mentioned the word
> > "Chimera," and noted its ties to Greek mythology. This confused me
> > because I had thought the word derived from some sort of Frech wedding
> > celebration, involving lots of noise.
> > What word am I thinking of?? Since I now know it's not
> > "Chimera," I've been able to get my memory to suggest "Chammery" or
> > "Shamra" but I can't find those in any dictionary either.
The word is "charivari," from which is derived the American
"shivaree," a wedding party involving lots of noise and banging of
pans and boisterous singing.
Your confusion suggests that you're mispronouncing "chimera." The
"ch" is sounded as a K, not as "sh." See dictionary for roots and
definitions (and pronunciation).
----NM
AWILLIS957
>>celebration, involving lots of noise.
I saw a play called "Charivari", which was about a carnival-like wedding
festivity.
Albert Peasemarch.
Martin Ambuhl
The French words "chambard" [nm], "chambardement" [nm], and "chambarder"
[vtr] all refer to din-making. I know of no English word based on them,
but there could be one.
Martin Ambuhl
Damn. I should have remembered "charivari" before posting my response.
Thanks for reminding me of it.
Tony Cooper
>
>
> Hello Em, welcome to aue!
>
no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
usage.
I'm going to tell my sister about this.
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Robert Lieblich
>
> "Garry J. Vass" wrote:
> > Hello Em, welcome to aue!
> >
> This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
> no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
> this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
> notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
> acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
> usage.
>
> I'm going to tell my sister about this.
Um (UK Erm), Tony. The Clairvoyance Subcommittee had already
researched your first two weeks' posts when first you arrived (they
knew about your arrival well in advance, of course), and the
decision was made, and referred to the full commitee, that you were
plainly going to become a regular. Regulars are lucky to get the
time of day, let alone a welcome.
I'm sure the members of the Committee would be happy to verify this,
except that none of them will admit to their status as such.
You don't believe me? Ask your sister.
R H Draney
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
>no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
>this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
>notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
>acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
>usage.
>
>I'm going to tell my sister about this.
Go right ahead...and we'll all be glad to correct any spelling or
grammatical errors in what you tell her....
Don't mention it....
No, really, *don't* mention it....r
--
"It just *can't* be 2001! I'm still writing 19100 on all my checks!"
Bill Howard
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Garry J. Vass" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Em, welcome to aue!
>>
>This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
>no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
>this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
>notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
>acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
>usage.
>
>I'm going to tell my sister about this.
>
Tena koe Tony. I welcome to AUE on behalf of the antipodean
irregulars. [It's not our southernness that makes us tardy.] I thought
you'd been around for yonks.
bill
Stephen Toogood
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> writes
>"Garry J. Vass" wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Em, welcome to aue!
>>
>This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
>no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
>this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
>notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
>acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
>usage.
>
de-lurked in the last week; he got no attention either, partly I suspect
because he has the same surname as another contributor.
>I'm going to tell my sister about this.
>
And this provide further entertainment...
--
Stephen Toogood
Stephen Toogood
<mam...@earthlink.net> writes
>
>Damn. I should have remembered "charivari" before posting my response.
>Thanks for reminding me of it.
In the days when books had sub-titles, the magazine 'Punch' carried the
sub-title 'The London Charivari'.
You don't wish to know that? Sorry.
--
Stephen Toogood
Laura F Spira
>
> "Garry J. Vass" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello Em, welcome to aue!
> >
> This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
> no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
> this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
> notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
> acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
> usage.
>
> I'm going to tell my sister about this.
>
>
I've never been to Rotary Club luncheon - are they very welcoming
affairs?
When I first posted here, no-one welcomed me either but then I didn't
expect a red carpet. Garry used to be around a lot more and seemed to be
the "official" meeter and greeter: after a while I realised that
occasionally his apparently welcoming posts had a very sharp edge,
entertaining to those who were tuned in.
It's something to do with tone, Tony: messages from newcomers with a
precise degree of earnest enquiry, diffidence, and bonhomie usually get
a warm response. If you arrive boasting that you've been in rougher,
tougher newsgroups and making provocative assertions about women and
accountants (just a couple of examples that spring to mind), you might
expect that people would not immediately recognise your wit and
erudition.
And bleating to your sister is pretty wimpish.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Matthew M. Huntbach
> > > Hello Em, welcome to aue!
> > This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
> > no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
> > this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
> > notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
> > acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
> > usage.
>When I first posted here, no-one welcomed me either but then I didn't
>expect a red carpet. Garry used to be around a lot more and seemed to be
>the "official" meeter and greeter: after a while I realised that
>occasionally his apparently welcoming posts had a very sharp edge,
>entertaining to those who were tuned in.
I hate the idea of a newsgroup where you only have to post a
tentative post and you're immediately meeted and greeted
(met and gret?). That's a bit like those Prod churches where
if a newcomer turns up at a service, he's immediately treated
as a long-lost brother. Much better (at least to me) our Papist
practice where if you start going to mass somewhere, after a year
or two the regulars might just recognise your existence, and you
know you can safely drop into a church anywhere to do what you
have to do without fear of being bothered and signed up for
fellowship meetings or whatever.
Matthew Huntbach
David McMurray
> [...]BTW I've heard a few people mispronounce chimera as /'SImR@/
> ("SHIMmera") instead of the proper /kaI'mEr@/ ("kye-MERra") ("merry" vowel
> in the second syllable).
Alert the dictionary editors, most (or all?) of whom seem to think
"proper" pronunciation requires the 'mere' vowel there.
--
David
Tony Cooper
>
> I've never been to Rotary Club luncheon - are they very welcoming
> affairs?
I went to one once. You can count the fillings in the back
teeth. A virtual riot of cheek rictus.
>
> It's something to do with tone, Tony: messages from newcomers with a
> precise degree of earnest enquiry, diffidence, and bonhomie usually get
> a warm response. If you arrive boasting that you've been in rougher,
> tougher newsgroups
I don't do diffidence, I am patently false at earnestness,
and bonhomie does not become me.
and making provocative assertions about women and
> accountants
I have never seen a provocative accountant. Mine showed a
bit of leg, but only because he wore short black socks with
a suit.
, you might
> expect that people would not immediately recognise your wit and
> erudition.
Yesterday marked my 37th wedding anniversary. My wife has
*still* not recognized my wit and erudition. I was hoping
that a group of strangers might be more perceptive.
> And bleating to your sister is pretty wimpish.
I may have come from the rough and rowdy soc.culture.irish,
but I'm no one's sheep.
Donna Richoux
> "Garry J. Vass" wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello Em, welcome to aue!
> >
> This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
> no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
> this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
> notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
> acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
> usage.
>
> I'm going to tell my sister about this.
Tony, I didn't see your first post as I was away. Did you remember to
include all the welcome-prompting features that Emryc did? Saying you
are new. Making a flattering remark about the group. Asking a question
that is answerable, appropriate, and interesting. Giving enough context
to make it real and human.
Or did you just make some clever observation, not requiring an answer?
People come, they go. I doubt that whether they stick around depends
much on whether anyone said "Welcome" as much as whether they came to
feel that their contributions truly *were* welcome.
Which, at first they often aren't. My guess is that most of the present
regulars started off making fools of themselves, making assertions that
were coolly disproven, etc. I think we all hope that the archives have
dropped some of our earliest flubs.
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
Padraig Breathnach
>I hate the idea of a newsgroup where you only have to post a
>tentative post and you're immediately meeted and greeted
>(met and gret?). That's a bit like those Prod churches where
>if a newcomer turns up at a service, he's immediately treated
>as a long-lost brother. Much better (at least to me) our Papist
>practice where if you start going to mass somewhere, after a year
>or two the regulars might just recognise your existence, and you
>know you can safely drop into a church anywhere to do what you
>have to do without fear of being bothered and signed up for
>fellowship meetings or whatever.
>
So we should ignore your posts in order to make you feel at home?
Sorry. I just didn't.
PB
Padraig Breathnach
>... My guess is that most of the present
>regulars started off making fools of themselves ...
And some of us continue to do so.
PB
Mike Lyle
Cooper wrote:
>
>Laura F Spira wrote:
>>
>> I've never been to Rotary Club luncheon - are they very welcoming
>> affairs?
>
>I went to one once. You can count the fillings in the back
>teeth. A virtual riot of cheek rictus.
>
Anyhow, Tony, I think you're lots of fun.
Mike.
K1912
I don't know if Donna is presently regular or not, but she's nobody's fool, so
speak for myself, Padraig.
Mike Lyle
Donna Richoux wrote:
>
[...]
>
>My guess is that most of the present
>regulars started off making fools of themselves, making assertions that
>were coolly disproven, etc. I think we all hope that the archives have
>dropped some of our earliest flubs.
>
Whereas I find the more I hang out with this group the dumber I get. But, by the
same token, I find it progressively harder to work out how to escape.
Mike.
Mike Barnes
>My guess is that most of the present
>regulars started off making fools of themselves, making assertions that
>were coolly disproven, etc.
<raises hand>
>I think we all hope that the archives have
>dropped some of our earliest flubs.
That would be nice, but just the tip of a very large iceberg in my case.
--
Mike Barnes
Richard Fontana
Hmm. Let me check that...
Yes, I suppose you're right. Strange that they have the wrong
pronunciation, but we've seen that happen before, most recently with
"Boca Raton".
Emyric Pidgeon
>"Shivaree", apparently derived from "chivalry" which I guess is ultimately
>French....
>
>There's even a reference to the practice in the libretto of "Oklahoma!"....r
Ahhhhhhh! It's "Shivaree", how clearly I remember now!
Really, thank you so much for this. And thanks to everyone else for
their help and comments.
Now I'm going to go write "Shivaree" fifty times on a piece of paper,
and then quiz myself at the end of the week.
- Em
Skitt
"Richard Fontana" <rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.011018...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu...
I use the short "i" in the first syllable (also supported by MWCD10), as in
"hit". That is how I was taught in my Latin classes "i" should be
pronounced.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Laura F Spira
Does this mean that you would like us to ignore you?
a.u.e. as a place of worship is an interesting idea - perhaps Richard
could write us a suitable hymn.
Laura F Spira
A perfectly expressed summary of my own feelings: welcome to my
favourite Mikes club.
Robert Lipton
Laura F Spira wrote:
SNIP
> a.u.e. as a place of worship is an interesting idea - perhaps Richard
> could write us a suitable hymn.
>
He could certainly write us an unsuitable one.
Bob
Tony Cooper
>
> > > Hello Em, welcome to aue!
> > >
> > This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
> > no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
> > this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
> > notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
> > acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
> > usage.
> >
> > I'm going to tell my sister about this.
>
> Tony, I didn't see your first post as I was away. Did you remember to
> include all the welcome-prompting features that Emryc did? Saying you
> are new.
I don't do humble.
>Making a flattering remark about the group.
No, but then the reputation of the group did not precede
it. I wouldn't have known what aspect to flatter. The mere
convergence of a number of people in one group would not
have constituted a feeling of anticipatory respect. I have
since - I hasten to point out - developed a respect for the
majority of the regular posters.
Asking a question
> that is answerable, appropriate, and interesting. Giving enough context
> to make it real and human.
So I should have served up a "floater"? Waist high and
outside?
> Or did you just make some clever observation, not requiring an answer?
Moi? What is clever to some is smart-assed to others. I
try for the former and more often produce the latter.
>
> People come, they go. I doubt that whether they stick around depends
> much on whether anyone said "Welcome" as much as whether they came to
> feel that their contributions truly *were* welcome.
You know I actually understand this, don't you? Don't you?
> Which, at first they often aren't. My guess is that most of the present
> regulars started off making fools of themselves, making assertions that
> were coolly disproven, etc.
So now you're serving me a floater?
Maria Conlon
Tony Cooper wrote in message
>"Garry J. Vass" wrote:
>> Hello Em, welcome to aue!
>This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
>no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
>this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
>notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
>acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
>usage.
>
>I'm going to tell my sister about this.
If she happens to respond through the newsgroup, we'll be sure to
welcome her. ;-)
Sisters ought to be able to be "one up" on their brothers, I think.
I never had a brother, but if I did, I would have wanted to be
formally welcomed while he wasn't. Just to show him, you know?
(I don't think I got a welcome to aue either. In fact, I think I got
in an argument right away. I know that's hard to believe...)
Maria (Tootsie)
Truly Donovan
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Garry J. Vass" wrote:
>>
>> Hello Em, welcome to aue!
>>
>This bugs me. When I first posted to aue a month or so ago,
>no one - no one at all - welcomed me here. In the last week
>this place has been like a Rotary Club luncheon of welcome
>notices to new posters. To the best of my memory, the only
>acknowledgment I received was a correction of my English
>usage.
The *only* acknowledgment? Only? Sheesh!
--
Truly Donovan
http://www.trulydonovan.com
Truly Donovan
<Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
>I'm sure the members of the Committee would be happy to verify this,
>except that none of them will admit to their status as such.
I've been instructed by The Committee to point out that the
"The" is capitalized.
Charles Riggs
First he'd want to tell us all about what category a hymn falls into.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Tony, I didn't see your first post as I was away. Did you remember to
>include all the welcome-prompting features that Emryc did? Saying you
>are new. Making a flattering remark about the group. Asking a question
>that is answerable, appropriate, and interesting.
Some of the most interesting questions are either unanswerable or
inappropriate, or both. Men ask such questions sometimes. We are the
philosophers.
> Giving enough context
>to make it real and human.
Sure to get the Donna Richoux Stamp of Approval.
Poor Bun Mui; she's outta luck.
Charles Riggs
Padraig Breathnach
>On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:10:04 -0400, Robert Lieblich
><Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm sure the members of the Committee would be happy to verify this,
>>except that none of them will admit to their status as such.
>
>I've been instructed by The Committee to point out that the
>"The" is capitalized.
That's for "The Committee". Not for the "Committee".
PB
Rowan Dingle
>a.u.e. as a place of worship is an interesting idea - perhaps Richard
>could write us a suitable hymn.
To the tune of 'For those in peril on the sea'.
'For sheep and Bovril: AUE'?
'For Hyde and Jeckyll: AUE'?
--
Rowan Dingle
Donna Richoux
Um, Charles, I'm sorry I failed to make my point broadly enough. I'm not
the one who says "Welcome" to these people. I was pointing out features
in a post that tend to elicit "Welcomes" from others. It's subtle, but
I'm sure you know the difference between observing something in others
and doing it yourself.
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux wrote:
[snip]
> Asking a question
> > that is answerable, appropriate, and interesting. Giving enough context
> > to make it real and human.
>
> So I should have served up a "floater"? Waist high and
> outside?
Only if you want a certain kind of "welcome" response. Like I go on to
say, I don't think a "welcome" is necessary or important, so I wouldn't
say an unqualified "should."
>
> > Or did you just make some clever observation, not requiring an answer?
>
> Moi? What is clever to some is smart-assed to others. I
> try for the former and more often produce the latter.
>
> >
> > People come, they go. I doubt that whether they stick around depends
> > much on whether anyone said "Welcome" as much as whether they came to
> > feel that their contributions truly *were* welcome.
>
> You know I actually understand this, don't you? Don't you?
Yes, I figured you did. Sometimes I state the obvious for the sake of
clarity -- not all communication takes the form of "Here's something I
think you don't know." Sometimes it's "Here's something I think we both
can agree on." (But you know that already. We're all know-it-alls around
here.)
When a person mock-complains as you did, it's a bit hard to know what
they truly believe, but at least you were inviting opinions, so I gave
you mine.
>
> > Which, at first they often aren't. My guess is that most of the present
> > regulars started off making fools of themselves, making assertions that
> > were coolly disproven, etc.
>
> So now you're serving me a floater?
You've got me puzzled on that one. In what way am I pitching you an easy
ball to hit?
a1a5...@sprint.ca
Not all 'contributors' to the NG are intent on self-improvement, even
heuristically. Your enquiry may loosely be described as Socratic,
though expert wielders of irony (attention there, Simon Howling R.)
may detect other overtones--such as a brutish sarcasm.
Tony Cooper
>
> When a person mock-complains as you did, it's a bit hard to know what
> they truly believe, but at least you were inviting opinions, so I gave
> you mine.
> >
And quite nicely, too. What I truly believe is that
acknowledgment of a new poster should only be considered as
part of an answer to the poster's question. Even in this
case, only with a poster that seems unsure of the
appropriateness of asking a question of such an august
body. I'm not a greeter, but I have to work very hard just
to be polite most of the time.
> > > Which, at first they often aren't. My guess is that most of the present
> > > regulars started off making fools of themselves, making assertions that
> > > were coolly disproven, etc.
> >
> > So now you're serving me a floater?
>
> You've got me puzzled on that one. In what way am I pitching you an easy
> ball to hit?
It was a straight line - regulars, fools, disprove - that
some of the regulars took a swing at yesterday.
Linz
> The word is "charivari," from which is derived the American
> "shivaree," a wedding party involving lots of noise and banging of
> pans and boisterous singing.
American? Looks to me, looking at the NSOED, that shivaree is derived
from charivari, from French, origin unknown.
--
I'm all heart, me.
This makes tying shoelaces more than a little tricky.
(Ancipital, urs)
Richard Fontana
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:04:26 -0700, N.Mitchum wrote:
>
> > The word is "charivari," from which is derived the American
> > "shivaree," a wedding party involving lots of noise and banging of
> > pans and boisterous singing.
>
> American? Looks to me, looking at the NSOED, that shivaree is derived
> from charivari, from French, origin unknown.
By way of New Orleans, I thought.
N.Mitchum
-----
> > "shivaree," a wedding party involving lots of noise and banging of
> > pans and boisterous singing.
>
> American? Looks to me, looking at the NSOED, that shivaree is derived
> from charivari, from French, origin unknown.
The American identification may have been a tad hasty, but I
honestly cannot relate "shivaree" to any country other than mine.
Is the word familiar to people in your part of the world?
You seem to have read me backwards, since I said in the above that
"shivaree" comes from "charivari." The latter is French and,
according to my dictionary, came from a Late Latin word for
"headache," which in turn came from a Greek word for "heaviness in
the head."
----NM
Truly Donovan
<sp...@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:04:26 -0700, N.Mitchum wrote:
>
>> The word is "charivari," from which is derived the American
>> "shivaree," a wedding party involving lots of noise and banging of
>> pans and boisterous singing.
>
>American? Looks to me, looking at the NSOED, that shivaree is derived
>from charivari, from French, origin unknown.
I think you missed a "from" up there.
Richard Fontana
> a.u.e. as a place of worship is an interesting idea - perhaps Richard
> could write us a suitable hymn.
English Usage Soldiers [FIRST DRAFT]
(Sung to the tune of "Onward Christian Soldiers")
English usage soldiers, dancing like Charles Riggs
Fighting 'gainst bad grammar and Aaron Davies' sigs
Mark, the usage Master, let us read his FAQ
For the English-challenged we won't cut no slack
Refrain:
English usage soldiers, dancing like Charles Riggs
Fighting 'gainst bad grammar and Aaron Davies' sigs
At the sign of triumph trolls from us do flee
On then, usage soldiers, on to victory!
Heaven's angels tremble at those words of Rey's
Brothers lift your voices, high as our R.J.'s
(Refrain)
Talking 'bout a sausage, or that caught and cot
Bottom-posting is good, advance thanks is not
We are not divided, all one newsgroup we,
Our t's are alveolar, a la Mike Hardy.
(Refrain)
Things in dictionaries have to be the truth
We don't like to crosspost, 'cause it is uncouth
Long as Usenet lasteth we the faith will keep
We got inside knowledge, learning curve be steep
(Refrain)
Language is evolving, Lawler may complain
But good English usage constant will remain
AEU can never 'gainst our group prevail
Guys like Tony Cooper will not let us fail
(Refrain)
Onward then, ye posters, join this usage song
Send us your donations, it would not be wrong
Glory, laud and honor unto AUE
D.J. Kim should realize this just ain't funny.
R J Valentine
Now that had to be cruel and uncalled for; I'm sure of it.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Don Aitken
wrote:
The word "charivari" was in use in England for centuries, although
less commonly than the equivalent "rough music", to describe noisy
popular demonstrations (banging of pans definitely included) outside
the houses of people though to be guilty of some immorality, usually
of a sexual nature. Nothing to do with weddings - rather the absence
thereof. A fascinating contrast with the American development.
--
Don Aitken
mplsray
"Don Aitken" <don-a...@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:3bd0be64...@news.freeuk.net...
It turns out that there is a connection to marriages in the French from
which the word comes, as I found out when I looked into it. First, I took at
look at what it said in my copy of the *Dictionnaire Étymologique et
Historique de la Langue
Française* by Emmanuèle Baumgartner and Philippe Ménard:
[quote]
*charivari* (XIVe s.), d'abord _chalivali,_ d'orig. obsc., p.-ê. du lat.
_caribaria,_ du grec _karébaria_ « mal de tête », est d'abord empl. au sens
de « tapage organisé à l'occasion d'un remarriage », puis de « chahut » (XVe
s.).
[end quote]
I translated this as:
[my translation]
*charivari* (14th century), from _chalivali,_ of unknown origin, perhaps
from Latin _caribaria,_ from Greek _karébaria_ "headache," first used in the
sense of "racket organized on the occasion of a remarriage," then of
"racket" (15th century).
[end of translation]
I wasn't satisfied with the translation of "tapage": How could a racket be
"organized"? The other sense my dictionary gave was "hype," as in publicity,
which also seemed inappropriate. Then I took a look at the online dictionary
*Trésor de la Langue Française* (TLF). One of the meaning it gave for
"tapage" was "charivari," so I looked that up. Here's what they had to say
under that entry:
From
http://zeus.inalf.fr/scripts/tlf_complet/affart.exe?;s=768787005;?b=0
[quote]
CHARIVARI 1, subst. masc.
A._ Vieilli. Concert où se mélangent les sons discordants et bruyants
d'ustensiles de cuisine entrechoqués, de crécelles, de cris et de sifflets,
qu'il était d'usage d'organiser pour montrer une certaine réprobation devant
un mariage mal assorti ou la conduite choquante d'une personne. _Si vous
vous remariez, on vous fera un charivari trois jours de suite_ (_Ac_.
1798-1878) :
[end quote]
[my translation]
CHARIVARI 1, masculine noun.
A._ Dated. Concert consisting of a mix of loud and discordant sounds,
kitchen utensils banged together, rattles, shouts, and hissing, which it was
the fashion to organize to show a certain disapproval for an ill-matched
marriage or for some person's shocking conduct. _If you remarry, they'll
organize a three-day long *charivari*_ (_Ac_. 1798-1878)
[end of my translation]
The quote is, it seems, from a couple of editions of the *Dictionnaire de
L'Académie Française.* One such quote is located at
http://duras.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/quick_look.new.sh?word=charivari
where it speaks of charivaris being conducted "devant la maison des femmes
du petit peuple, veuves et âgées, qui se remariaient," that is "outside the
home of women of the town[1], widows and elderly women, who remarry."
So, where I translated "tapage" above as "racket," it might be best to
translate it using your phrase: "a noisy popular demonstration."
By the way, the TLF had an entry for "CHARIVARI 2," but it had nothing to do
with the above: It was an item of clothing the name of which was ultimately
came from India.
Note:
[1] Literally "petit peuple" = "little people," which might be translated by
"townspeople"--my dictionary is a bit misleading on this point, I think.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Charles Riggs <chr...@gofree.indigo.ie> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:04:01 +0200, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Tony, I didn't see your first post as I was away. Did you remember to
>> >include all the welcome-prompting features that Emryc did? Saying you
>> >are new. Making a flattering remark about the group. Asking a question
>> >that is answerable, appropriate, and interesting.
>>
>> Some of the most interesting questions are either unanswerable or
>> inappropriate, or both. Men ask such questions sometimes. We are the
>> philosophers.
For example, we ask such fundamental questions as:
What is beauty?
Is zero even?
Does life have a purpose?
Is black a colour?
I will admit that women have been known to ask, along with men, that
most pressing question of all:
Is there a God?
>> > Giving enough context
>> >to make it real and human.
>>
>> Sure to get the Donna Richoux Stamp of Approval.
>
>Um, Charles, I'm sorry I failed to make my point broadly enough. I'm not
>the one who says "Welcome" to these people. I was pointing out features
>in a post that tend to elicit "Welcomes" from others. It's subtle, but
>I'm sure you know the difference between observing something in others
>and doing it yourself.
Um, Donna, don't get riled. I was only making the subtle observation
that you yourself have very often asked people, especially newbies, to
give some context when they ask a question. I agree that this
sometimes helps but I disagree that it is always necessary; my five
questions above are a few examples of when.
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>English Usage Soldiers [FIRST DRAFT]
>(Sung to the tune of "Onward Christian Soldiers")
Applause, applause!
Well done, Richard.
Charles Riggs
Laura F Spira
I knew you would rise to the challenge, sir. And, although I am deeply
honoured to have been addressed poetically elsewhere recently, I shall
know that I have really made it in this world when my name appears in
one of your verses.
R H Draney
<illi...@NOSPAM.mninter.net.invalid> wrote:
>I wasn't satisfied with the translation of "tapage": How could a racket be
>"organized"? The other sense my dictionary gave was "hype," as in publicity,
>which also seemed inappropriate.[my translation]
>
>CHARIVARI 1, masculine noun.
>A._ Dated. Concert consisting of a mix of loud and discordant sounds,
>kitchen utensils banged together, rattles, shouts, and hissing,
You couldn't quite get your head around an "organized racket", but you
had no trouble with a "discordant concert"?...
Bit of an etymologic double standard there....r
--
What good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone?
Linz
Ah! Indeed, I misread it as "which is derived from...".
My apologies to N.Mitchum.
Linz
Indeed, as I said in another post, I misplaced the "from" in your
sentence, and I apologise. I really should try to give up the speed
reading, but if I want to keep with AUE it's the only way to go.
Robert Lieblich
>
[snip R. Fontana's verses]
> I knew you would rise to the challenge, sir. And, although I am deeply
> honoured to have been addressed poetically elsewhere recently, I shall
> know that I have really made it in this world when my name appears in
> one of your verses.
Surely it's only a matter of time till we hear a
Verse from R.F. about Laura F. Spira.
Garry J. Vass
news:3BCEB313...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com...
>
> When I first posted here, no-one welcomed me either but then I didn't
> expect a red carpet. Garry used to be around a lot more and seemed to be
> the "official" meeter and greeter: after a while I realised that
Just to add as a side-note that I still spend the same amount of time in aue
as always, but mostly reading because mouse clicks are less invasive for my
degenerative bone condition than typing. So I save my "typing wad" for my
news commentary and research reports that I do at work.
Mike Page
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>
>a.u.e. as a place of worship is an interesting idea - perhaps Richard
>could write us a suitable hymn.
Tune: 'We plough the fields and scatter'
We plumb the depths of English
No stone unturned by hands
To see how it is us'ed
by folk in different lands.
We explore all the byways
and different dialects
And look at all the sayings
Of obscure linguistic sects.
Some talk about the monkeys
and if they're made of brass
Some ask about the Monty
Which doth the rest surpass.
No query is unanswered
No one will silence keep
Especially if the topic
Can be turned 'round to sheep.
No postings are allow'ed
If they stray from the way
Laid down by the committee
Which rules both night and day.
One must stay on the topic
Ho'ere much one would post
About one's dearest interest
But, we talk of food the most.
But Betjeman on church restoration is better.
Mike Page, BF(UU)
Let the ape escape for e-mail
Richard Fontana
One problem is that I don't know how to pronounce "Spira" so I can't use
it in a rhyme. Is it like "spear-a" or "spy-ra"?
Robert Lieblich
Soon enough R. Fontana is going to fire a
Broaside of verse re Laura F. Spyra.
Neither ignorance of pronunciation nor considerations of good taste
can stop the dogged doggerelist.
Richard Fontana
Oh, duh! But now I'm back in the dark as far as the pronunciation goes,
though perhaps I should go with your earlier suggestion.
Laura F Spira
Spy-ra. Thank you for asking, many people assume "spear-a". Had I been
braver when we married I would have kept my maiden name, Frank, which
has the advantage of being easy to pronounce and ranks earlier in the
alphabet - but then I didn't know that I would end up as an academic and
that it might matter. I know of someone who calls herself simply
Abercrombie, which serves apparently as both forename and surname but I
think there might be some practical problems associated with that.
(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
before P will do.)
Laura F Spira
We could perhaps publish a book of a.u.e. hymns and recipes
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> (Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
> before P will do.)
How about Lieblich? Okay, there's still the pronunciation problem,
and spelling is a bit erratic, but unless your brother joins the
same newsgroup you'll never be mistaken for anyone else.
And besides, it's such a lovable surname.
Laura F Spira
Why, thank you, kind sir. I'm very touched: it's not every day that
someone offers you the use of his surname. Laura Lieblich sounds quite
mellifluous, doesn't it?
Mike Barnes
>(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
>before P will do.)
"Nauda".
Well, someone had to say it.
--
Mike Barnes
Laura F Spira
Indeed. But wouldn't that be pronounced Now-da? I think that Norder is
the correct spelling.
daniel gerard mcgrath
<la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>Mike Barnes wrote:
>>
>> In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote
>> >(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
>> >before P will do.)
>>
>> "Nauda".
>>
>> Well, someone had to say it.
>>
>>
>
>Indeed. But wouldn't that be pronounced Now-da? I think that Norder is
>the correct spelling.
>
But you don't pronounce your first name as "Laow-ra", do you?
--------------------------------------------------
daniel g. mcgrath
an avid subscriber to _word ways: the journal of recreational linguistics_
(<URL:http://www.wordways.com/>) and 'alt.usage.english' newsgroup
i have AUTISM -- for more information, please see
<URL:http://www.alt-usage-english.org/McGrath.html>.
Mark Barratt
wrote:
"Dabove" is even earlier in the alphabet.
--
"Everyone has to be upgraded from "spade" to
"soil relocation device" these days." - Franke.
Mike Barnes
>Mike Barnes wrote:
>>
>> In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote
>> >(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
>> >before P will do.)
>>
>> "Nauda".
>>
>> Well, someone had to say it.
>
>Indeed. But wouldn't that be pronounced Now-da?
Ah. No-one thought to ask how you pronounce your *first* name, did they?
--
Mike Barnes
Laura F Spira
>
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 17:54:31 +0100, Laura F Spira
> <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote:
>
> >Mike Barnes wrote:
> >>
> >> In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote
> >> >(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
> >> >before P will do.)
> >>
> >> "Nauda".
> >>
> >> Well, someone had to say it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Indeed. But wouldn't that be pronounced Now-da? I think that Norder is
> >the correct spelling.
> >
> But you don't pronounce your first name as "Laow-ra", do you?
>
I don't, but some people do, especially Italians.
Laura F Spira
>
> In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com> wrote
> >Mike Barnes wrote:
> >>
> >> In alt.usage.english, Laura F Spira <la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote
> >> >(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
> >> >before P will do.)
> >>
> >> "Nauda".
> >>
> >> Well, someone had to say it.
> >
> >Indeed. But wouldn't that be pronounced Now-da?
>
> Ah. No-one thought to ask how you pronounce your *first* name, did they?
>
>
pronounced Louder?
Garry J. Vass
news:3BD28BCD...@spira.u-net.com...
> Richard Fontana wrote:
> >
> (Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
> before P will do.)
>
How about "Airwick"? You could tell people it's from a little village not
far from Warwick...
Laura F Spira
Wotcha, Garry.
Laura Airwick is extremely difficult to say and not exactly euphonious.
Or am I pronouncing it incorrectly? Would you say Eric, perhaps?
ObNostalgia: Do you remember Airwick? Came in a bottle with a sort of
green pungent sponge that you pulled up, vile smell.
BTW my spellchecker prefers Airsick.
Mark Barratt
<ga...@totally-official.com> wrote:
But then, by analogy with Warwick (/wA.rIk/) it'd have to be
pronounced "Eric".
Rob Bannister
I always get mildly irritated when I have to sign my name more than once and
have always wanted a shorter surname. I thought Ng was quite good, but too hard
to pronounce. However, the best, shortest and also before-P name I've come
across is "O" - also a Vietnamese name I think.
-- Rob Bannister
Mike Page
<la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote:
>Spy-ra. Thank you for asking, many people assume "spear-a". Had I been
>braver when we married I would have kept my maiden name, Frank, which
>has the advantage of being easy to pronounce and ranks earlier in the
>alphabet - but then I didn't know that I would end up as an academic and
>that it might matter. I know of someone who calls herself simply
>Abercrombie, which serves apparently as both forename and surname but I
>think there might be some practical problems associated with that.
>(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
>before P will do.)
Abercrombie sounds too much like one of TS Eliot's cats or an
overcoat. Remember two can play at that game. Bags I
Aaronovitch.
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> I always get mildly irritated when I have to sign my name more than once and
> have always wanted a shorter surname. I thought Ng was quite good, but too hard
> to pronounce. However, the best, shortest and also before-P name I've come
> across is "O" - also a Vietnamese name I think.
The gentleman known a "The Babe Ruth of Japan" is named Sadaharu O
(a transliteration, of course). I think the Japanese would say "O
Sadaharu," but that's perhaps a bit too vocative for English
speakers.
Bill Schnakenberg
Oh, really?
> I thought Ng was quite good, but too hard
> to pronounce. However, the best, shortest and also before-P name I've come
> across is "O" - also a Vietnamese name I think.
>
> -- Rob Bannister
--
Bill Schnakenberg
Skitt
"Rob Bannister" <rob...@it.net.au> wrote in message
news:3BD3772D...@it.net.au...
>
> I always get mildly irritated when I have to sign my name more than once
and
> have always wanted a shorter surname.
It's simple -- all you have to do is to develop a shorter signature. I did
that back in the sixties when I had to sign papers at least fifty times a
day.
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel of "Fawlty Towers" (he's from Barcelona).
Raymond S. Wise
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 02:28:44 -0500, "mplsray"
> <illi...@NOSPAM.mninter.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >I wasn't satisfied with the translation of "tapage": How could a racket be
> >"organized"? The other sense my dictionary gave was "hype," as in publicity,
> >which also seemed inappropriate.[my translation]
> >
> >CHARIVARI 1, masculine noun.
> >A._ Dated. Concert consisting of a mix of loud and discordant sounds,
> >kitchen utensils banged together, rattles, shouts, and hissing,
>
> You couldn't quite get your head around an "organized racket", but you
> had no trouble with a "discordant concert"?...
>
> Bit of an etymologic double standard there....r
I did find it momentarily disconcerting[1]. But since the music in
concerts *can* be discordant (such as in some "modernistic" works), I
didn't worry too much about it.
The link I gave in my previous post to the *Trésor de la Langue
Française* seems not to work. Try instead one of the following:
http://frantext.inalf.fr/tlf.htm
http://zeus.inalf.fr/scripts/tlf_complet/showps.exe?p=main.tlf
Coincidentally, I was talking about this business of the words
"shivaree" and "charivari" with my mother, and it turns out that when
she and my father were married, their neighbors and friends threw a
shivaree for them! Basically, it was a lot of noisemaking, including
the banging of spoons against cooking pots, and lasted for fifteen
minutes, after which my parents gave them candy and they went away.
When I asked "Fifteen minutes?" she said, "Yes, but if you didn't give
them the candy, it would have lasted all night."
They were married in Central Illinois. The definition of "shivaree" in
the AHD4, at
http://www.bartleby.com/61/27/S0352700.html
says that it is a regionalism: "_Midwestern & Western U.S._ A noisy
mock serenade for newlyweds._" They also give other regional terms for
the shivaree, including "belling," "horning," "serenade," and
"charivari."
Note:
[1]BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Richard
<rf...@sparky.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Laura F Spira wrote:
>
>> a.u.e. as a place of worship is an interesting idea - perhaps Richard
>> could write us a suitable hymn.
>
>English Usage Soldiers [FIRST DRAFT]
>(Sung to the tune of "Onward Christian Soldiers")
>
>
>English usage soldiers, dancing like Charles Riggs
>Fighting 'gainst bad grammar and Aaron Davies' sigs
>Mark, the usage Master, let us read his FAQ
>For the English-challenged we won't cut no slack
>
>Refrain:
>English usage soldiers, dancing like Charles Riggs
>Fighting 'gainst bad grammar and Aaron Davies' sigs
>
>At the sign of triumph trolls from us do flee
>On then, usage soldiers, on to victory!
>Heaven's angels tremble at those words of Rey's
>Brothers lift your voices, high as our R.J.'s
>
>(Refrain)
>
>Talking 'bout a sausage, or that caught and cot
>Bottom-posting is good, advance thanks is not
>We are not divided, all one newsgroup we,
>Our t's are alveolar, a la Mike Hardy.
>
>(Refrain)
>
>Things in dictionaries have to be the truth
>We don't like to crosspost, 'cause it is uncouth
>Long as Usenet lasteth we the faith will keep
>We got inside knowledge, learning curve be steep
>
>(Refrain)
>
>Language is evolving, Lawler may complain
>But good English usage constant will remain
>AEU can never 'gainst our group prevail
>Guys like Tony Cooper will not let us fail
>
>(Refrain)
>
>Onward then, ye posters, join this usage song
>Send us your donations, it would not be wrong
>Glory, laud and honor unto AUE
>D.J. Kim should realize this just ain't funny.
>
Perhaps newbies could be directed to this song first and the FAQ
second?
--
Richard Bollard
Australian Mathematics Trust
Canberra, Australia
Don Aitken
There are also disadvantages to being at the beginning of the
alphabet, though I must admit they haven't much affected me since I
was a school.
--
Don Aitken
Ben Zimmer
Usually transliterated "Sadaharu Oh" (or "Oh Sadaharu").
--Ben
Laura F Spira
You're welcome. It's long, you'd have to keep spelling it for people and
it comes with a certain amount of baggage. My first choice of Aardvark
is still looking good to me.
Truly Donovan
<Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote:
>Laura F Spira wrote:
>
>[snip R. Fontana's verses]
>
>> I knew you would rise to the challenge, sir. And, although I am deeply
>> honoured to have been addressed poetically elsewhere recently, I shall
>> know that I have really made it in this world when my name appears in
>> one of your verses.
>
>Surely it's only a matter of time till we hear a
>Verse from R.F. about Laura F. Spira.
Well if he thinks that's going to get him out of trouble,
he's got another think coming.
--
Truly Donovan
http://www.trulydonovan.com
felix
> In article <3BCE449E...@earthlink.net>, Martin Ambuhl
> <mam...@earthlink.net> writes
> >
> >Damn. I should have remembered "charivari" before posting my response.
> >Thanks for reminding me of it.
>
> In the days when books had sub-titles, the magazine 'Punch' carried the
> sub-title 'The London Charivari'.
In its 150 year history Punch has managed to be funny for a couple of
decades - the 1960s and 70s maybe. The rest is mediocrity.
felix
ObCaption to shockingly unfunny 1912 Punch cartoon (which is
meticulously drawn) on of course the subject of golf, that least
amusing of sports:
Exasperated Goffer. "Where the dickens did my ball go?"
Bored Caddy. "I dinna ken, sorr, but I'm worrit that the thing lodged
in the top of yon pine tree isna a pudgeon's eigg."
Mark Barratt
wrote:
>There are also disadvantages to being at the beginning of the
>alphabet, though I must admit they haven't much affected me since I
>was a school.
And now that you're a bed-sitting room?
iwasaki
"Robert Lieblich" <Robert....@Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3BD39482...@Verizon.net...
That interests me. Is there a surname that is simply "A", "I",
"U" or "E"? I checked the phone book of my local area, and found
the names "I", "U", and "E" ("I" was a Japanese surname; "U" and
"E" were apparently foreign names).
And from the phone book, I found another rare name -- "Ai Ueo"
(Ai is his surname). Japanese "aiueo" is sort of like English
"abc", so the name was listed on the top.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
>Spy-ra. Thank you for asking, many people assume "spear-a". Had I been
It never occurred to me that it was other than that. I thought
"spiral" without the "l".
>braver when we married I would have kept my maiden name, Frank, which
>has the advantage of being easy to pronounce and ranks earlier in the
>alphabet - but then I didn't know that I would end up as an academic and
>that it might matter. I know of someone who calls herself simply
>Abercrombie, which serves apparently as both forename and surname but I
>think there might be some practical problems associated with that.
>(Suggestions welcomed for a catchy new surname, anything that comes
>before P will do.)
My mother had that problem. After she divorced my dad, she was
getting into selling real estate, and she wanted a name that was
short, easy to say, and not too common. She picked "Briar".
From the look of it, one would think it to be much more common
than it is, but it's actually fairly rare here in British Columbia,
Canada. Looking in a recent phone book for Kamloops (pop. ~80,000), I
found no listings for a surname of Briar. There are a couple of
businesses whose names start with "Briar". For one of these, that's
the name of the road the business is on.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Mike Page
<la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote:
>Mike Page wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:48:13 +0100, Laura F Spira
>>
>> Abercrombie sounds too much like one of TS Eliot's cats or an
>> overcoat. Remember two can play at that game. Bags I
>> Aaronovitch.
>>
>>
>
>You're welcome. It's long, you'd have to keep spelling it for people and
>it comes with a certain amount of baggage. My first choice of Aardvark
>is still looking good to me.
No, Aardvark is impossible for a serious academic. People would
think what you wrote was really about your namesake Ethel who
went quantity surveying in LA. Besides aardvarks are ant eaters
and then people would start to think about your suppressed wish
to be a lion tamer.
Anyway, I'm going to trump Aardvark with Aagard. There are four
in the London phone book and one in Southampton. Curiously, two
of the five are vicars. I wonder if they are all related - or
just frustrated co-authors.
Laura F Spira
>
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 07:39:14 +0100, Laura F Spira
> <la...@spira.u-net.com> wrote:
>
> >Mike Page wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 09:48:13 +0100, Laura F Spira
> >>
> >> Abercrombie sounds too much like one of TS Eliot's cats or an
> >> overcoat. Remember two can play at that game. Bags I
> >> Aaronovitch.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You're welcome. It's long, you'd have to keep spelling it for people and
> >it comes with a certain amount of baggage. My first choice of Aardvark
> >is still looking good to me.
>
> No, Aardvark is impossible for a serious academic.
Who said I was a *serious* academic? (I'm told that someone of great
discernment recently described me a as "a bit of a guru" but I am still
wondering which bit.)
People would
> think what you wrote was really about your namesake Ethel who
> went quantity surveying in LA. Besides aardvarks are ant eaters
> and then people would start to think about your suppressed wish
> to be a lion tamer.
I have no wish to tame lions. Taming co-authors is much more of a
challenge.
>
> Anyway, I'm going to trump Aardvark with Aagard. There are four
> in the London phone book and one in Southampton. Curiously, two
> of the five are vicars. I wonder if they are all related - or
> just frustrated co-authors.
I cannot believe that you, a serious academic, have actually spent time
researching this. Anyway, I win conclusively - not only is there an
Aadan in the Oxford phone book but, even better, a Yahoo search tells me
of a whole tribe of Aabs in the US, many in a place called Greeley,
Connecticut.
Aab sounds like the noise one might make in the dentist's chair. Or an
interrupted rebuttal: "Ah, b--". Or could it be pronounced Ay-ab? I hope
someone who is nearer to Greeley can satisfy my curiosity. Otherwise,
Professor, we may find ourselves talking to ourselves again.
Tony Cooper
>
> Who said I was a *serious* academic? (I'm told that someone of great
> discernment recently described me a as "a bit of a guru" but I am still
> wondering which bit.)
You sure it wasn't "she has the bite of gnu"?
--
Tony Cooper aka: tony_co...@yahoo.com
Provider of Jots and Tittles
Mike Page
<tony_co...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Laura F Spira wrote:
>>
>> Who said I was a *serious* academic? (I'm told that someone of great
>> discernment recently described me a as "a bit of a guru" but I am still
>> wondering which bit.)
>
>You sure it wasn't "she has the bite of gnu"?
That would be both hearty and beastly, but I wouldn't really know
as there aren't any gnus hereabouts. Still I suppose no gnus is
good gnus.
Anyway, that is the end of the gnus. Here is the weather
forecast.
Laura F Spira
summer doldrums competition.
But surely a gnu is a wildebeest, not a hartebeest?
Jack Gavin
news:3BD4892C...@DRAGONspira.u-net.com...
Says http://www.m-w.com:
Main Entry: wil·de·beest
Pronunciation: 'wil-d&-"bEst
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural wildebeests also wildebeest
Etymology: Afrikaans wildebees, from wilde wild + bees ox
Date: 1824
: GNU
Main Entry: gnu
Pronunciation: 'nü also 'nyü
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural gnu or gnus
Etymology: Khoikhoi t'gnu
Date: 1777
: either of two large African antelopes (Connochaetes gnou and C. taurinus)
with a head like that of an ox, short mane, long tail, and horns in both
sexes that curve downward and outward
Main Entry: harte·beest
Pronunciation: 'här-t&-"bEst
Function: noun
Etymology: obsolete Afrikaans (now hartbees), from Dutch, from hart deer +
beest beast
Date: 1786
: either of two large African antelopes (Alcelaphus buselaphus and
Sigmoceros lichtensteini) with long faces and short annulate divergent
horns; also : a smaller antelope (Damaliscus hunteri syn. Beatragus hunteri)
of eastern Africa having a horizontal white line between the eyes
So, yes, the hartebeest is not in the gnus.
All the gnus that's fit to print: http://www.m-w.com/mw/art/gnu.htm
--
Jack Gavin
Rob Bannister
Good job you never thought of hyphenating your name with someone else's -
Fotheringshaw-Schnakenberg would be good.
-- Rob Bannister