WTC Disaster
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
substitute tin for nit to mail me
http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
"Hello, my name is Anna, and I write trilogies." -- Anna Mazzoldi
P Nielsen Hayden
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>Please tell me you're all all right.
Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
have ever seen.
Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
know when I'll get home!
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden : p...@panix.com : http://www.panix.com/~pnh
Weblog: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/electrolite.html
Anthologies: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/anthologies.html
Music: http://www.panix.com/~pnh/trouble.html
Erik V. Olson
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:24 GMT,
> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>
>Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
>Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>
>I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
>Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
>although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
>
>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>have ever seen.
>
>Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
>know when I'll get home!
Other New Yorker's ACKing OK -- TNH, Seth Briedbart (in Boston), Claire Eddy.
--
Erik V. Olson: er...@mo.net : http://walden.mo.net/~eriko/
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
> burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
> have ever seen.
I'm looking at Manhattan now. It looks like the end of the world. I can
only hope it's not as bad down there.
I can only say that I'm with you with all my heart.
Martin Wisse
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:24 GMT,
> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>
>Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
>Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
>Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
>although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
Glad to hear it.
>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>have ever seen.
I can but imagine. Just saw one of the WTC towers collapsing; a horrible
sight. Those poor people who were still inside...
Martin Wisse
--
The series makes me think of those websites which keeps
opening new browser windows, and each of those windows
spawns more windows, until the whole system locks up.
Dan Krashin [about the Wheel of Time series]
Adina Adler
> P Nielsen Hayden <p...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
> > burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
> > have ever seen.
>
> I'm looking at Manhattan now. It looks like the end of the world. I can
> only hope it's not as bad down there.
>
> I can only say that I'm with you with all my heart.
Well, everything's ok here in Lexington, though I've heard that the
Prudential Center in Boston (one of our tallest buildings) has been
evacuated, as has the Sears building in Chicago. Someone in my office
has a television set, and the newscaster is being calm, and reassuring
people that all of New York is *not* in flames. He said there was an
explosion and a fire at the Pentagon, but no confirmed reports of
their source.
--
Adina
Arthur D. Hlavaty
Feruglio Dal Dan) wrote:
>Please tell me you're all all right.
Bernadette, Kevin, and I were all in Westchester at the time of the
crash.
--
Arthur D.Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius in Wile E. we trust
E-zine available on request
Marty Helgesen
In article <1ezktjb.uear7hvmhxeaN%ada...@nit.it.invalid>, ada...@nit.it.invalid (Anna Feruglio Dal Dan) says:
>
>Please tell me you're all all right.
come into Manhattan by Long Island Rail Road at Penn Station, which is
between 31st Street and 33d Street, several miles north of the World
Trade Center.
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mn...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
"It is so stupid of modern civilization to have given up
believing in the devil, when he is the only explanation of it."
R.A.K.
Help outlaw spam. For further information see http://www.cauce.org/
David Joseph Greenbaum
in fleeting electrons:
>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>have ever seen.
Both towers have collapsed, as of 10:40am EDT. Several tens of
thousands of people have died or are trapped in the wreckage. I was
going to go into Manhattan through the Newark-WTC PATH lines for an
interview this afternoon.
>Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
>know when I'll get home!
God keep everyone safe and hale.
Dave G.
--
Schöner, grüner mond von Alabama, leuchte uns!
Denn wir haben heute hier
Unterm Hemde Geldpapier
Fur ein grosses Lachen deines grossen, dummen Munds. -- Bertolt Brecht
Bernard Peek
<ad...@shore.net> writes
The BBC has cleared its schedule and is running a continuous news
program on BBC1.
The news is that both WTC towers are down, part of the Pentagon building
has collapsed, there's a 747 down in Pittsburg(h) and a hijacked plane
incoming on the East coast. There were about 50,000 people in the WTC
towers this morning.
Israeli disaster-relief teams are en-route to New York, they have
specialist teams on permanent standby. Yasser Arafat has condemned the
attacks.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
In search of cognoscenti
Michael R Weholt
news:1ezktjb.uear7hvmhxeaN%ada...@nit.it.invalid:
> Please tell me you're all all right.
If this is terrorism, it's worked on me. I'm sitting here shaking,
fighting back tears.
I was on my way to work -- literally right across the street from both
towers. The first sign was the cornball people looking up -- I had my
headphones on and so didn't hear anything -- the pure blue sky was
filled with an awful brown gray smoke -- strangely there were what
looked like pieces of papers floating everywhere in the smoke -- it
looked like a horrific version of one of those ticker-tape parades they
have for the Yankees -- I walked a bit further and the full scope of the
first horror became clear -- the top floors of the north side of the
north tower -- maybe ten floors completely collapsed in -- flames
roaring from all sides of the tower -- that awful brown gray smoke --
omigod I thought -- then a guy on the street reported the incredible --
that he had seen a plane plow into the tower -- omigod -- shades of the
Empire State Building -- stunning -- a few more blocks to work -- faces,
stunned turned skyward -- almost getting run over as I crossed the
street -- a strange silence -- no sirens -- too soon to even grasp what
had happened -- the entrance to our building -- people gathered outside,
looking up at the awful smoke and flames -- I take the elevator to the
7th floor, I'm the first one in, I open the office ...
Suddenly another hugh blast, outside the windows shit is flying
everywhere -- glass, huge shards of metal -- omigod -- I literally think
the tower is falling -- or will fall -- i run for it --
down seven flights and out of the building -- cops are screaming at
people to run run run people are screaming in horror staring blanking
looking up stunned
i remember i've left everything in my office i stupidly make one feeble
attempt to go get it and get my head chewed off by one fucking wound up
cop and i decide i have to head home my family will be scared shitless i
have to call them i try to find a pay phone but every one of them all
the way up broadway for over a mile every pay phone has ten people lined
up finally i get home i manage to get through to my mother in seattle my
i can't get hold of others i can't get out of manhattan my brother calls
we are watching tv together when i learn the first tower has fallen
omigod -- apart from all the other horrors -- my building my job i'm
sorry for such selfish thoughts -- but i probably don't have a job --
well fuck it I'm Alive -- we watch the other tower fall live on T.V. I
start crying, sobbing, my brother trying to calm me down ...
yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
--
mrw
Johan Anglemark
<EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
>attacks.
I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the White
House.
What a nightmare.
-j
--
Johan Anglemark - http://anglemark.pp.se
Lejd av Upsala SF-sällskap - http://sfweb.dang.se
Omega
<p...@panix.com> writes
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:24 GMT,
> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>
>Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
>Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>
>I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
>Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
>although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
>
>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>have ever seen.
>
>Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
>know when I'll get home!
>
totally locked up and I can't find out anything apart from what's going
out from the BBC (the kids have hijacked the satellite so I'm watching
the portable in the bedroom). I'm praying for you all.
--
Omega
WereGopher From The Black Lagoon
(coming soon... honest... only eight years late)
Mary Kay Kare
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:24 GMT,
> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>
> Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
> Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>
> I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
> Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
> although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
Has anyone heard from Seth? I assume he works somewhere in the financial
district.
>
> As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
> burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
> have ever seen.
The pictures are horrible.
>
> Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
> know when I'll get home!
>
Thank god you're all right. I feel so helpless.
MKK
--
Lassitude: Scottish version of grrl power
Joel Rosenberg
"Johan Anglemark" <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote in message
news:Xns9119B105CCCF3j...@192.9.201.2...
> My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
> <EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
>
> >Yasser Arafat has condemned the
> >attacks.
>
> I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
> that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> Palestinians.
I'm sure there are, but I doubt that they amount to more than a handful.
And I think some of those people have influence in the White
> House.
>
I strongly doubt that. That said, I suspect that criticism of Israel for
preemptively targetting terrorists will cease emanating from the White
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
> that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> Palestinians.
If I were Palestinian, I guess today for once I would be awfully glad
that Israel is so close.
Omega
Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> writes
>ada...@nit.it.invalid (Anna Feruglio Dal Dan) wrote in
>news:1ezktjb.uear7hvmhxeaN%ada...@nit.it.invalid:
>
>> Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>If this is terrorism, it's worked on me. I'm sitting here shaking,
>fighting back tears.
>
>Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
>
>
I'm just glad to hear you're alive. This has me shaking and I'm half a
world away. Growing up with the idea of terrorism like I did in London
is one thing. Hearing people you call friend so close to it is another.
Joel Rosenberg
"Bernard Peek" <b...@shrdlu.com> wrote in message
news:EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk...
>
> Israeli disaster-relief teams are en-route to New York, they have
> specialist teams on permanent standby. Yasser Arafat has condemned the
> attacks.
Gee, how nice of him. If it turns out -- as I doubt, all in all -- that
some of the people involved in these terrorist attacks were on the list of
folks Arafat had been told to arrest, it wouldn't be the first time this
week.
Mary Kay Kare
> ada...@nit.it.invalid (Anna Feruglio Dal Dan) wrote in
> news:1ezktjb.uear7hvmhxeaN%ada...@nit.it.invalid:
>
> > Please tell me you're all all right.
>
> If this is terrorism, it's worked on me. I'm sitting here shaking,
> fighting back tears.
>
<hugs your way> I'm so glad you're not hurt or dead.
Kate Nepveu
> If this is terrorism, it's worked on me. I'm sitting here shaking,
> fighting back tears.
[...]
> Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
I'm terribly sorry that you were there for that, but very glad that you
made it out physically okay.
Kate
--
http://www.steelypips.org/elsewhere.html -- kate....@yale.edu
Paired Reading Page; Book Reviews; Outside of a Dog: A Book Log
"The most courageous act is still to think for yourself. Aloud."
--Coco Chanel
Sharon L Sbarsky
Mary Kay Kare <mar...@kare.ws> wrote:
>
>Has anyone heard from Seth? I assume he works somewhere in the financial
>district.
>>
Sharon
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
Wisse) wrote:
>On 11 Sep 2001 13:56:10 GMT, p...@panix.com (P Nielsen Hayden) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:24 GMT,
>> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Please tell me you're all all right.
>>
>>
>>Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
>>Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>
>>I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
>>Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
>>although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
>
>Glad to hear it.
>
>>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>>have ever seen.
>
>I can but imagine. Just saw one of the WTC towers collapsing; a horrible
>sight. Those poor people who were still inside...
Damn, damn, damn.
I hope to all gods they catch and fry all those responsible.
And the Democratic Front For The Liberation Of Palestine ... simply
cannot find words strong enough.
Anyway, supposedly it's not true, as CNN reports.
vlatko
--
_Neither Fish Nor Fowl_
http://www.webart.hr/nrnm/eng/index.htm
vlatko.ju...@zg.hinet.hr
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
It won't, but you are, and I for one am glad of it.
<big hug>
James Nicoll
Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
>My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
><EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
>
>>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
>>attacks.
>
>I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
>that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
>Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the White
>House.
>
>What a nightmare.
>
His lower lip was trembling.
Joel Rosenberg
"Anna Feruglio Dal Dan" <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote in message
news:1ezkz87.4lmko0s4cbcxN%ada...@nit.it.invalid...
> Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
>
> > I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think
today
> > that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> > Palestinians.
>
> If I were Palestinian, I guess today for once I would be awfully glad
> that Israel is so close.
>
Depends on which Palestinian you were -- I don't think it's going to be a
good couple of days for the folks who Arafat has been told to arrest . . .
one of whom, by the way, was a recent suicide bomber.
I'm wondering how soon the blame-Israel-for-Arab-terrorism chant will start.
Omega
> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>
>Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
>Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>
>I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
>Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
>although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
>
>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>have ever seen.
>
>Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
>know when I'll get home!
>
Mark Atwood
>
> I'm wondering how soon the blame-Israel-for-Arab-terrorism chant will start.
Has already.
Along with the "blame Bush for it".
--
Mark Atwood | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker.
m...@pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra
Erik V. Olson
>Has anyone heard anything from Paul Barnet and his wife or Ben Yallow.
Ben Yalow is okay.
Joel Rosenberg
"James Nicoll" <jdni...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9nlbp4$oh$1...@panix1.panix.com...
It can't be the deaths of the innocents that's bothering him, so that if the
expression on his face was sincere -- always a possibility -- he's probably
realized the implications of this for the buy-the-terrorists-off policies,
and that the US criticism of Israel for its preemptive attacks on terrorists
is likely to turn into a request for lesson plans.
United Flight 175 from Boston to LA is still missing.
Joel Rosenberg
"Mark Atwood" <m...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:m3pu8xv...@flash.localdomain...
> "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> writes:
> >
> > I'm wondering how soon the blame-Israel-for-Arab-terrorism chant will
start.
>
> Has already.
>
> Along with the "blame Bush for it".
>
> --
Yeah, but -- so far, at least as far as I can tell -- that's only come from
the usual types for which that would be expected. The question isn't, I
think, how it will play on the fringe, but whether that will be seen by the
general public as discrediting the fringe.
I'm skeptical, myself.
Vlatko Juric-Kokic
wrote:
>
>"Anna Feruglio Dal Dan" <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote in message
>news:1ezkz87.4lmko0s4cbcxN%ada...@nit.it.invalid...
>> Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
>>
>> > I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think
>today
>> > that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
>> > Palestinians.
>>
>> If I were Palestinian, I guess today for once I would be awfully glad
>> that Israel is so close.
>>
>
>Depends on which Palestinian you were -- I don't think it's going to be a
>good couple of days for the folks who Arafat has been told to arrest . . .
>one of whom, by the way, was a recent suicide bomber.
Supposedly the Palestinians celebrate and somebody is giving out candy
on the West Bank, says Reuters. Supposedly I say, because Reuters has
its own moments of shame.
>I'm wondering how soon the blame-Israel-for-Arab-terrorism chant will start.
The guy from the Democratic Front to Liberate Palestinians said
something that amounted to "They could expect this." BTW, the analyst
I mentioned earlier said it was certainly bin Laden.
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> >Depends on which Palestinian you were -- I don't think it's going to be a
> >good couple of days for the folks who Arafat has been told to arrest . . .
> >one of whom, by the way, was a recent suicide bomber.
>
> Supposedly the Palestinians celebrate and somebody is giving out candy
> on the West Bank, says Reuters. Supposedly I say, because Reuters has
> its own moments of shame.
I don't justify them, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Kate Schaefer
news:slrn9pt0a1...@calcium.physiciansedge.com...
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:56:14 +0100, Omega <om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Has anyone heard anything from Paul Barnet and his wife or Ben Yallow.
>
>
> Ben Yalow is okay.
Thank you.
I've seen reassurance that Velma is all right, but I haven't seen anything
about Soren. And Moshe Feder? Lise Eisenberg?
Martin Wisse
wrote:
>My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
><EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
>
>>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
>>attacks.
>
>I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
>that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
>Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the White
>House.
Yasser Arafat looked really shaken at the news; not just at the act
itself, it must also be playing through his head that this will so fuck
up all he's achieved so far.
And if you then see Palestinians celebrating the news.... Not pretty.
>What a nightmare.
Aye.
Martin Wisse
--
...British writers all eventually get around to
the smell of overcooked cabbage.
-Lucy Kemnitzer, rasseff
Martin Wisse
wrote:
>ada...@nit.it.invalid (Anna Feruglio Dal Dan) wrote in
>news:1ezktjb.uear7hvmhxeaN%ada...@nit.it.invalid:
>
>> Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>If this is terrorism, it's worked on me. I'm sitting here shaking,
>fighting back tears.
I'm doing so, and I'm in no danger.. must be hell for you and others in
NY/Washington.
<...>
>Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
*hugs*
At least you're safe now...
Martin Wisse
Nicklas Andersson
Somehow I doubt that -- that it will be OK, I mean. I do believe that
you're better, not much perhaps considering the circumtance, but better.
/ Nicklas, feeling useless
--
(.sigless)
Erik V. Olson
Soren's okay. No word on Moshe or Lise.
Erik V. Olson
Lucy Hutzinger, through TNH, says Lise is okay.
Erik V. Olson
Erik V. Olson <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote:
>On 11 Sep 2001 16:25:16 GMT, Kate Schaefer <ka...@oz.net> wrote:
>>"Erik V. Olson" <er...@physiciansedge.com> wrote in message
>>news:slrn9pt0a1...@calcium.physiciansedge.com...
>>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:56:14 +0100, Omega <om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Has anyone heard anything from Paul Barnet and his wife or Ben Yallow.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ben Yalow is okay.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>
>>I've seen reassurance that Velma is all right, but I haven't seen anything
>>about Soren. And Moshe Feder? Lise Eisenberg?
>
>Soren's okay. No word on Moshe or Lise.
More -- Lise, Lucy Huntzinger, Bruce Schniner okay.
Alter S. Reiss
You know, his lower lip always trembles. He has Parkison's.
Joel Rosenberg
"Martin Wisse" <mwi...@ad-astra.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:3c903c35....@news.demon.nl...
> On 11 Sep 2001 15:20:43 GMT, jo...@anglemark.pp.se (Johan Anglemark)
> wrote:
>
> >My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
> ><EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
> >
> >>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
> >>attacks.
> >
> >I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think
today
> >that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> >Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the
White
> >House.
>
> Yasser Arafat looked really shaken at the news; not just at the act
> itself, it must also be playing through his head that this will so fuck
> up all he's achieved so far.
>
> And if you then see Palestinians celebrating the news.... Not pretty.
>
I don't understand why they shouldn't, from their point of view.
Not only have thousands of allies of the wicked Zionists been killed, as
they so surely deserve, but Chairman Arafat, himself, was brought to
prominence and made President for Life of Palestine because of his
participation in the armed struggle, the ideal form of which is targetting
civilians, and of which this is only the latest example.
And, of course, they are celebrating. There undoubtedly is dancing in the
streets at this joyous news. (I wrote that before taking a quick look at
the Jerusalem Post and finding that, indeed, that's happened.)
You can see some of the young martyrs-to-be celebrating at
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/11/News/News.34589.html -- "Dozens of
Palestinian youths have taken to the streets and are distributing candies on
a main thoroughfare passing through eastern Jerusalem. Israeli police are
reportedly clashing with the youths. Elsewhere in the West Bank, Palestinian
Authority policemen are attempting to stop the spontaneous celebrations."
Regardless of who actually performed this act, it's a great day for the
inevitable triumph of the Palestinian people over the Zionist aggressor,
isn't it?
Kip Williams
>
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:47:50 GMT, "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Anna Feruglio Dal Dan" <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:1ezkz87.4lmko0s4cbcxN%ada...@nit.it.invalid...
> >> Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think
> >today
> >> > that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> >> > Palestinians.
> >>
> >> If I were Palestinian, I guess today for once I would be awfully glad
> >> that Israel is so close.
> >>
> >
> >Depends on which Palestinian you were -- I don't think it's going to be a
> >good couple of days for the folks who Arafat has been told to arrest . . .
> >one of whom, by the way, was a recent suicide bomber.
>
> Supposedly the Palestinians celebrate and somebody is giving out candy
> on the West Bank, says Reuters. Supposedly I say, because Reuters has
> its own moments of shame.
I was just watching footage of happy, smiling Palestinians (all the
kids wearing American-type clothes) honking horns, tossing candy,
giving the "V" with their fingers. Party time.
So I suppose the next thing will be some dorks over here deciding to
take it out on their Eastern-looking neighbors (who will turn out to
be from someplace completely different, of course). That will serve
also to take the edge off of our moment of victimhood, and turn us
back into the global schoolyard bully in the world press.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at http://members.home.net/kipw/
"It's Robots versus Bunnies!" --Tom the Dancing Bug (by Ruben
Bolling)
Janice Gelb
My brother, who works at home, says that he saw news footage
of Palestinians celebrating in the streets.
******************************************************************
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with
janic...@eng.sun.com | this message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
When I was in college, there were certain words you couldn't say
in front of a girl. Now you can say them but you can't say 'girl.'
- Tom Lehrer
Joel Rosenberg
"Kip Williams" <ki...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B9E414D...@home.com...
I hope not. Mind you, I wouldn't grieve for a moment if, say, Edward Said
were to trip over his latest stack of lies and fall down a flight of stairs,
but we in the civilized world do have ways of methodically, legally, and
properly dealing with criminals on our own soil, and beating up on a bunch
of folks who aren't involved isn't one of them.
I'm wondering, paraphrasing an email I've just gotten, if the US State
Department hasn't called up the White House to urge Bush to remain calm and
not call for any reprisals, which would only inflame the situation.
Kate Schaefer
news:9nldtc$8ua$0...@216.39.145.104...
In the last coupla minutes I heard that Lise is fine.
Loren Joseph MacGregor
>"Johan Anglemark" <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote in message
>news:Xns9119B105CCCF3j...@192.9.201.2...
>> My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
>> <EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
>>
>> >Yasser Arafat has condemned the
>> >attacks.
>>
>> I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
>> that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
>> Palestinians.
>I'm sure there are, but I doubt that they amount to more than a handful.
From one of my Canadian vendors this morning:
"We would like to also say on record that if any country
is found responsible for these attacks, we call for that
country's complete destruction and annihilation.
"Do not let terrorism which is designed to create fear
and stop production, halt your life or work."
That's scary.
> And I think some of those people have influence in the White
>> House.
>I strongly doubt that. That said, I suspect that criticism of Israel for
>preemptively targetting terrorists will cease emanating from the White
>House.
Agreed.
>> What a nightmare.
Agreed.
-- LJM
Joel Rosenberg
"Loren Joseph MacGregor" <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote in message
news:9nlfsq$hm3$1...@news.efn.org...
> In rec.arts.sf.fandom, Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
>
> >"Johan Anglemark" <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9119B105CCCF3j...@192.9.201.2...
> >> My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
> >> <EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
> >>
> >> >Yasser Arafat has condemned the
> >> >attacks.
> >>
> >> I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think
today
> >> that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> >> Palestinians.
>
> >I'm sure there are, but I doubt that they amount to more than a handful.
>
> From one of my Canadian vendors this morning:
>
> "We would like to also say on record that if any country
> is found responsible for these attacks, we call for that
> country's complete destruction and annihilation.
>
> "Do not let terrorism which is designed to create fear
> and stop production, halt your life or work."
>
> That's scary.
Yeah. Then again, maybe an ancient slogan should have been "While not
wanting to destory any innocent person in Carthage, we do wish to engage in
a series of carefully chosen military actions intended to persuade Carthage
that further aggression will be unwise"?
David Langford
>Has anyone heard anything from Paul Barnet and his wife
Paul Barnett has just e-mailed to confirm that he and Pam stayed safe home
in Hewitt,New Jersey, today. Also that their animator friend Sue Perotto is
likewise OK -- just in case anyone here knows her.
Dave
--
David Langford
ans...@cix.co.uk | http://www.ansible.co.uk/
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> "We would like to also say on record that if any country
> is found responsible for these attacks, we call for that
> country's complete destruction and annihilation.
It is this kind of attitude - there are no innocents in an enemy country
- tht brought about this day.
Omega
<jo...@ellegon.com> writes
>
>I'm wondering, paraphrasing an email I've just gotten, if the US State
>Department hasn't called up the White House to urge Bush to remain calm and
>not call for any reprisals, which would only inflame the situation.
>
weeks/months.
Omega
<jo...@ellegon.com> writes
>
Priscilla H. Ballou
> Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>
> > "We would like to also say on record that if any country
> > is found responsible for these attacks, we call for that
> > country's complete destruction and annihilation.
>
> It is this kind of attitude - there are no innocents in an enemy country
> - tht brought about this day.
Exactly. Escalation is going to take us exactly where we *don't* want
to go.
Priscilla
--
"If at the end of a war story you feel uplifted, or if you feel
some small bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger
waste, then you have been made the victim of a very old and
terrible lie." -- a Vietnam vet
Jay Denebeim
Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
That depends on your definition of 'works'. Does it scare people?
Yes. Does it piss them off? Yes. Does it get you what you want?
No. Did it hurt us in a way that would keep us from kicking their
ass? No.
They have started a war. They will lose this war. They, their
famlies, everyone they know, will die. The US will do whatever it
takes to ensure that this won't happen again. I have trouble
imagining how anyone could consider this 'working'.
Jay
--
* Jay Denebeim Moderator rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated *
* newsgroup submission address: b5...@deepthot.org *
* moderator contact address: b5mod-...@deepthot.org *
* personal contact address: dene...@deepthot.org *
James Nicoll
Janice Gelb <jan...@marvin.eng.sun.com> wrote:
>In article 1...@panix1.panix.com, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>>In article <Xns9119B105CCCF3j...@192.9.201.2>,
>>Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
>>>My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
>>><EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
>>>
>>>>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
>>>>attacks.
>>>
>>>I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
>>>that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
>>>Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the White
>>>House.
>>>
>>>What a nightmare.
>>>
>> I saw Arafat in the news and he looked on the verge of tears.
>>His lower lip was trembling.
>
>
>My brother, who works at home, says that he saw news footage
>of Palestinians celebrating in the streets.
Gosh, that seems foolish of them.
Joel Rosenberg
"Jay Denebeim" <dene...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
news:9nlilp$bc4$2...@dent.deepthot.org...
> In article <Xns911973C6678...@166.84.0.240>,
> Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
>
> That depends on your definition of 'works'. Does it scare people?
> Yes. Does it piss them off? Yes. Does it get you what you want?
> No. Did it hurt us in a way that would keep us from kicking their
> ass? No.
>
> They have started a war. They will lose this war. They, their
> famlies, everyone they know, will die. The US will do whatever it
> takes to ensure that this won't happen again. I have trouble
> imagining how anyone could consider this 'working'.
Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't flying right
now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be launched.
Vicki Rosenzweig
>ada...@nit.it.invalid (Anna Feruglio Dal Dan) wrote in
>news:1ezktjb.uear7hvmhxeaN%ada...@nit.it.invalid:
>
>> Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>If this is terrorism, it's worked on me. I'm sitting here shaking,
>fighting back tears.
>
<snip details because they're scary>
>yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
>
>Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
Aye.
The weird thing is, I'm all the way uptown--really--which means
that, from here, the sky is blue and beautiful. I *know* the island
I'm on is closed down, and I went "oh shit" an hour ago when I
heard something fly low overhead, but I'm getting everything by
telephone and radio, same as the rest of you. When I can get a
phone line.
And there's nothing I can do, except call or email my friends and
family and let them know I'm okay. And remember to eat and drink.
That's a general reminder: even if you have no appetite, have some
juice or water or milk.
I love you all. Thanks for being here.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
r.a.sf.f faq at http://www.redbird.org/rassef-faq.html
Omega
Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> writes
>Loren Joseph MacGregor <lmac...@garcia.efn.org> wrote:
>
>> "We would like to also say on record that if any country
>> is found responsible for these attacks, we call for that
>> country's complete destruction and annihilation.
>
>It is this kind of attitude - there are no innocents in an enemy country
>- tht brought about this day.
>
Omega
<ans...@cix.co.uk> writes
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:56:14 +0100, Omega <om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Has anyone heard anything from Paul Barnet and his wife
>
>Paul Barnett has just e-mailed to confirm that he and Pam stayed safe home
>in Hewitt,New Jersey, today. Also that their animator friend Sue Perotto is
>likewise OK -- just in case anyone here knows her.
>
Alison Hopkins
Joel Rosenberg wrote in message ...
I'll lay odds that the B2s are airborne right now.
Ali
Kip Williams
> The weird thing is, I'm all the way uptown--really--which means
> that, from here, the sky is blue and beautiful. I *know* the island
> I'm on is closed down, and I went "oh shit" an hour ago when I
> heard something fly low overhead, but I'm getting everything by
> telephone and radio, same as the rest of you. When I can get a
> phone line.
Here I am in Virginia, and a few minutes ago, a plane went over,
loudly. Most days, that's just business as usual. Today, it was the
only one. What was that about? I don't know, I'm just glad the sound
went away.
Erik V. Olson
Alison Hopkins <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>I'll lay odds that the B2s are airborne right now.
Scott AFB is empty.
Michael R Weholt
> Vicki Rosenzweig wrote:
>
>> The weird thing is, I'm all the way uptown--really--which means
>> that, from here, the sky is blue and beautiful. I *know* the island
>> I'm on is closed down, and I went "oh shit" an hour ago when I
>> heard something fly low overhead, but I'm getting everything by
>> telephone and radio, same as the rest of you. When I can get a phone
>> line.
>
> Here I am in Virginia, and a few minutes ago, a plane went over,
> loudly. Most days, that's just business as usual. Today, it was the
> only one. What was that about? I don't know, I'm just glad the sound
> went away.
The jets over Mahnattan are U.S. warplanes. Everytime I hear one, I go
out on the deck and look. It's bizarre. Like footage from the middle
east.
--
mrw
Joel Rosenberg
"Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:3b9e54bf$0$238$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off a finger
if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both mean "airborne on
their way to bomb somewhere" rather than "just off the ground so that they
won't get blown up.")
Michael R Weholt
> Vicki Rosenzweig wrote:
>
>> The weird thing is, I'm all the way uptown--really--which means
>> that, from here, the sky is blue and beautiful. I *know* the island
>> I'm on is closed down, and I went "oh shit" an hour ago when I
>> heard something fly low overhead, but I'm getting everything by
>> telephone and radio, same as the rest of you. When I can get a phone
>> line.
>
> Here I am in Virginia, and a few minutes ago, a plane went over,
> loudly. Most days, that's just business as usual. Today, it was the
> only one. What was that about? I don't know, I'm just glad the sound
> went away.
The jets over Mahnattan are U.S. warplanes. Everytime I hear one, I go
Michael R Weholt
news:9nlilp$bc4$2...@dent.deepthot.org:
> In article <Xns911973C6678...@166.84.0.240>,
> Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
>
> That depends on your definition of 'works'. Does it scare people?
> Yes. Does it piss them off? Yes. Does it get you what you want?
> No. Did it hurt us in a way that would keep us from kicking their
> ass? No.
>
> They have started a war. They will lose this war. They, their
> famlies, everyone they know, will die. The US will do whatever it
> takes to ensure that this won't happen again. I have trouble
> imagining how anyone could consider this 'working'.
Right, well, I'm sure that's all correct, but I mean terrorism working
in terms of causing terror. I can assure you, I was terrified.
As for what comes after that, well, that's another story.
--
mrw
Arthur D. Hlavaty
wrote:
>Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't flying right
>now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be launched.
>
I assume they are waiting until they figure out who did it. The CIA
was taken by surprise, as it usually is by anything less predictable
than sunrise.
--
Arthur D.Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius in Wile E. we trust
E-zine available on request
Omega
<jo...@ellegon.com> writes
>
this escalated to a war.
Erik V. Olson
Arthur D. Hlavaty <hla...@panix.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:56:54 GMT, "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't flying right
>>now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be launched.
>>
>I assume they are waiting until they figure out who did it. The CIA
>was taken by surprise, as it usually is by anything less predictable
>than sunrise.
I'm betting they scrambled with the alert, and are heading for formup points.
Kip Williams
Well, that's kind of what it sounded like. It had that sort of
overbearing sound, like most of the military planes around here
have. Today, that's more comforting than a passenger jet.
Joel Rosenberg
"Omega" <om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote in message
news:UvCUdpEY...@menageri.tele2.co.uk...
It is a war.
Joel Rosenberg
News is that the "Palestinian police" are attempting to suppress the
"spontaneous demonstrations" in the West Bank. My strong guess is that
they'll quickly give up on that, and attempt to suppress filming of the
spontaneous demonstrations.
Rob Hansen
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:31:24 GMT,
> Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@nit.it.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Please tell me you're all all right.
>
>
>Teresa and I are all right. I'm at work uptown in the Flatiron
>Building at 5th and 23rd. Teresa is at home in Brooklyn.
>
>I am relieved to report that Ellie Lang, who lives right across West
>Street from the WTC in Battery Park City, is all right as well,
>although reportedly terrified; the explosion woke her up.
>
>As to exactly what's going on -- we don't know. But I can see the
>burning WTC towers very clearly, and it is one of the worst things I
>have ever seen.
>
>Manhattan is locked down; you can't get on or off the island. I don't
>know when I'll get home!
When Avedon phoned me at work I instantly thought of you and the other
friends we have in NY. I see reports from others further downthread,
but any word from Soren, or Mark Richards, or Avram? And what about
Michael Sturza? We once visited him at his apartment, which was in the
shadow of the WTC. Even if all the people we know in the city are OK
it seems inevitable that some of the people *they* know there aren't.
Our thoughts are with you.
--
Rob Hansen
=============================================
Home Page: http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/rob/
RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004.
Rob Hansen
>Well, everything's ok here in Lexington, though I've heard that the
>Prudential Center in Boston (one of our tallest buildings) has been
>evacuated, as has the Sears building in Chicago.
Several major buildings were evacuated here in London on the theory
that if this was the work of Islamic terrorists, as seems likely, we
could well be next in line.
Ailsa C. Ek
<om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <Gfsn7.288529$Jg.38...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>, Joel
>Rosenberg
><jo...@ellegon.com> writes
>>
>>Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't
>>flying right
>>now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be
>>launched.
>>
>Here's hoping they -do- stay grounded. The last thing I want to
>see is
>this escalated to a war.
"Escalating" into a war? What's this we've got now, then? Looks
like an act of war to me.
--
New quote coming soon Ailsa C. Ek
Ail...@mac.com
Omega
<fn...@dial.pipex.com> writes
>
>Joel Rosenberg wrote in message ...
>>
>>now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be launched.
>>
>
>I'll lay odds that the B2s are airborne right now.
>
subscription. All Copyright New York Times. It looks like they've only
mobilised the Navy at this point.
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 -- 1:51 PM EST
------------------------------------------------------------
In response to the attacks on New York and Washington D.C.,NYTimes.com
will be sending frequent digests of the latest developments.
In parallel attacks in New York City and Washington, planes crashed into
each of the twin towers of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon this
morning.
Another jetliner crashed later in the morning near Pittsburgh. In
reaction, federal aviation officials shut down all airline activity
nationwide.
Slightly more than an hour after the attacks, both 110-story towers
collapsed, raining dust and debris over much of lower Manhattan. An
enormous loss of life was feared.
In a short statement during a visit to Sarasota, Fla., President Bush
called the attack "a national tragedy" and said the United States "will
hunt down and punish those responsible."
After leaving Florida en route to Washington, the president was
reportedly redirected to an unknown location. Members of Congress were
also evacuated from their Capitol Hill offices and reportedly relocated
to an unknown location.
No group immediately claimed responsibility for the attacks, which were
condemned by a spokesman for the ruling Taliban in Afghanistan and by
Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat.
Authorities across the country were place on alert, tightening security
at strategic facilities and evacuating high-profile buildings. U-S
monuments and museums in Washington were closed, as were museums in New
York City. The Navy has reportedly dispatched two aircraft carriers from
Norfolk, Va., to the New York harbor area.
Following the attacks, police and emergency workers flooded into lower
Manhattan. Much of the city's public transit system, including subways
and commuter rail service, were shut down, as were the main tunnels and
bridges leading into the city.
Priscilla H. Ballou
> The weird thing is, I'm all the way uptown--really--which means
> that, from here, the sky is blue and beautiful. I *know* the island
> I'm on is closed down, and I went "oh shit" an hour ago when I
> heard something fly low overhead, but I'm getting everything by
> telephone and radio, same as the rest of you. When I can get a
> phone line.
About half an hour ago or so there was a *loud* (so it sounded too low)
plane flyover here in the southern part of Boston. Later the news
reported that it was a military plane apparently patrolling the sky over
the city. It was scary, though, hearing it.
> And there's nothing I can do, except call or email my friends and
> family and let them know I'm okay. And remember to eat and drink.
> That's a general reminder: even if you have no appetite, have some
> juice or water or milk.
I was experiencing odd feelings in my chest, and I played with the
notion that I was having a mild heart attack. I decided that I'd see
what some food would do to it. Seems to have helped. I think I was
just hungry and anxious.
Matthew Austern
> Supposedly the Palestinians celebrate and somebody is giving out candy
> on the West Bank, says Reuters. Supposedly I say, because Reuters has
> its own moments of shame.
It's really important to remember that "the Palestinians" are several
million people, and not all of them think and do the same things.
I'd hate to have people blame me for My Lai just because of my
nationality. I didn't do it.
Jo Walton
awnb...@panix.com "Michael R Weholt" writes:
> Ok. I'm better now. OK. It will be OK.
This is one of the many posts that made me weep with relief that people
I know are OK.
Sasha says to say he sends good thoughts to everyone, but he thinks
crying because people are safe is silly. He says he's going to remember
today for all his life, and that it's the worst thing he's known happen
in all his born days. I think he's right, and he may even be right for
all of mine.
--
Jo J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
I kissed a kif at Kefk
*THE KING'S PEACE* out now *THE KING'S NAME* out in November from Tor.
Sample Chapters, Map, Poems, & stuff at http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk
Mark Atwood
>
> The jets over Mahnattan are U.S. warplanes. Everytime I hear one, I go
> out on the deck and look. It's bizarre. Like footage from the middle
> east.
There are still ~50 commercial flights in the air on their way to
some airport, either their planned destination or a diverted one.
If one of those aircraft "makes a false move" or stops responding
correctly, there is probably going to be some poor US fighter pilot
who's going to have bad dreams for years after.
There is a rumor that the aircraft that "crashed" outside Pittsburg
went down that way.
--
Mark Atwood | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker.
m...@pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra
Kate Schaefer
news:Xns9119923DE45...@166.84.0.240...
[...]
> Right, well, I'm sure that's all correct, but I mean terrorism working
> in terms of causing terror. I can assure you, I was terrified.
>
> As for what comes after that, well, that's another story.
Orthogonal to most of the day: that was a powerful piece of writing you
did.
Rivka
"Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
news:sCsn7.288548$Jg.38...@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
>
> "Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:3b9e54bf$0$238$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> >
> > Joel Rosenberg wrote in message ...
> > >
> > >guess is that they'll never be launched.
> >
> > I'll lay odds that the B2s are airborne right now.
>
> I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off
a
> finger if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both
> mean "airborne on their way to bomb somewhere" rather than
> "just off the ground so that they won't get blown up.")
I realize that emotions are running very high right now, so instead of
responding to this with my immediate reaction I'm just going to ask a
clarifying question:
When you say that you want the B2s to be airborne on a bombing
mission, is your full hope "I wish that we knew who was responsible
for this and where they were, and that we were in the process of
bombing them"? Or is the "somewhere" in your quoted text above as
approximate as it looks?
Rivka
--
Rivka is riv...@home.com and a psychology associate in behavioral
medicine.
All I ask of life is a constant and exaggerated sense of my own
importance.
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <Xns9119B105CCCF3j...@192.9.201.2>,
> Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
> >My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
> ><EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
> >
> >>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
> >>attacks.
> >
> >I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think today
> >that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> >Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the White
> >House.
> >
> >What a nightmare.
> >
> I saw Arafat in the news and he looked on the verge of tears.
> His lower lip was trembling.
It's his death warrant. It completely kills any hope of a decent
peace in the middle east any time soon (which was the goal of the
attackers of course). And Arafat will now have to deal with a much
more militant western attitude. So either Israel will roll over him,
or his own people will assassinate him for being too peaceful. Either
way, he's toast. If he's smart he'll apply for asylum in the US.
--
David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / dd...@dd-b.net
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
Dorothy J Heydt
Omega <om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>Has anyone heard anything from Paul Barnet and his wife or Ben Yallow.
Ben has posted that he's ok.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Dorothy J Heydt
AM PDT) came into SFO, excorted by two US F15 or F16 jets, which
saw it land safely and then flew away.
Joel Rosenberg
"Matthew Austern" <aus...@research.att.com> wrote in message
news:dil66ap...@isolde.research.att.com...
Fair enough. And if you'll point me at the widespread celebrations in the
street about the killing at My Lai, I'll find the analogy on point.
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <Xns911973C6678...@166.84.0.240>,
> Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> >yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
>
> That depends on your definition of 'works'. Does it scare people?
> Yes. Does it piss them off? Yes. Does it get you what you want?
> No. Did it hurt us in a way that would keep us from kicking their
> ass? No.
>
> They have started a war. They will lose this war. They, their
> famlies, everyone they know, will die. The US will do whatever it
> takes to ensure that this won't happen again. I have trouble
> imagining how anyone could consider this 'working'.
And lose the moral high ground, and dissolve into civil disorder, and
stop being important on the world stage. Trying to treat this as war
isn't going to work, because we *don't know who did it*. That's the
principle behind terrorism -- there's nobody to strike at. Anybody we
strike at will be a target of opportunity, and will bring us shame.
Going on a rampage in the middle east won't stop this from happening
again; it will make it *more likely* to happen again.
Frustrated, because I wouldn't mind machine-gunning a few villages
myself just now. But it would make things worse in the long run.
Joel Rosenberg
"Rivka" <riv...@home.com> wrote in message
news:97tn7.2271$gU.8...@news1.rdc1.md.home.com...
>
> "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
> news:sCsn7.288548$Jg.38...@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Alison Hopkins" <fn...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
> > news:3b9e54bf$0$238$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> > >
> > > Joel Rosenberg wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > >If the B2s aren't flying right now -- and I bet they aren't -- my
> > > >guess is that they'll never be launched.
> > >
> > > I'll lay odds that the B2s are airborne right now.
> >
> > I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off
> a
> > finger if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both
> > mean "airborne on their way to bomb somewhere" rather than
> > "just off the ground so that they won't get blown up.")
>
> I realize that emotions are running very high right now, so instead of
> responding to this with my immediate reaction I'm just going to ask a
> clarifying question:
>
> When you say that you want the B2s to be airborne on a bombing
> mission, is your full hope "I wish that we knew who was responsible
> for this and where they were, and that we were in the process of
> bombing them"? Or is the "somewhere" in your quoted text above as
> approximate as it looks?
It's perhaps not quite as approximate as it looks. If, say, the US bombs
Bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan and the Bekaa to bits, along with Kabul,
Damascus, Tehran, and a few other thoices, and it turns out that Bin Laden
is not responsible at all for this -- which is entirely possible; for all we
know, this could be another OKC -- I still think it would be a very good
thing if people were to understand that planning terrorism against the US is
a dangerous thing to be associated with, and that it's entirely in their
own, self-centered interests not merely to not be involved, but to not
harbor those involved among them.
No, I don't think that the US response should wait for a precise assignment
of blame for this particular outrage, or be confined to those directly
responsible for this outrage.
Joel Rosenberg
"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2n1414...@gw.dd-b.net...
> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
> > In article <Xns9119B105CCCF3j...@192.9.201.2>,
> > Johan Anglemark <jo...@anglemark.pp.se> wrote:
> > >My trusted friend Bernard Peek wrote in msg
> > ><EDT1x1KH...@diamond9.demon.co.uk>:
> > >
> > >>Yasser Arafat has condemned the
> > >>attacks.
> > >
> > >I understand him. I think there are parts of the US people who think
today
> > >that a genocide wouldn't be such a bad idea, provided it targeted the
> > >Palestinians. And I think some of those people have influence in the
White
> > >House.
> > >
> > >What a nightmare.
> > >
> > I saw Arafat in the news and he looked on the verge of tears.
> > His lower lip was trembling.
>
> It's his death warrant. It completely kills any hope of a decent
> peace in the middle east any time soon (which was the goal of the
> attackers of course). And Arafat will now have to deal with a much
> more militant western attitude. So either Israel will roll over him,
> or his own people will assassinate him for being too peaceful. Either
> way, he's toast. If he's smart he'll apply for asylum in the US.
> --
Bet you a nickel he's still alive, and still in his office, six months from
today.
Tim Illingworth
jo...@ellegon.com "Joel Rosenberg" writes:
>
>"Jay Denebeim" <dene...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
>news:9nlilp$bc4$2...@dent.deepthot.org...
>> In article <Xns911973C6678...@166.84.0.240>,
>> Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>> >yeah ok terrorism works i'm sorry to say it but it does...
>>
>> That depends on your definition of 'works'. Does it scare people?
>> Yes. Does it piss them off? Yes. Does it get you what you want?
>> No. Did it hurt us in a way that would keep us from kicking their
>> ass? No.
>>
>> They have started a war. They will lose this war. They, their
>> famlies, everyone they know, will die. The US will do whatever it
>> takes to ensure that this won't happen again. I have trouble
>> imagining how anyone could consider this 'working'.
>
>Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't flying right
>now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be launched.
I don't think anything's been launched yet - the skies are quiet here
in East Anglia, not full of KC-135s as usual when things are about to
happen.
Tim
(under the Lakenheath & Mildenhall flightpaths)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Illingworth t...@smof.demon.co.uk Go not to Usenet for advice, for
Coveney, tim...@compuserve.com they will say both 'No' and 'Yes'
Cambs, UK tim...@cix.co.uk and 'Try Another Newsgroup'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorothy J Heydt
Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't flying
>right
>> >now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be
>launched.
>>
>
>I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off a finger
>if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both mean "airborne on
>their way to bomb somewhere" rather than "just off the ground so that they
>won't get blown up.")
What they are doing, I'd bet a case of cookies, is patrolling the
air over the US to make sure nothing is flying that isn't (as
they say during a war) Ours.
The difference between this and Pearl Harbor is that after Pearl
is we knew whodunit and where they were.
Dorothy J Heydt
Mark Atwood <m...@pobox.com> wrote:
>If one of those aircraft "makes a false move" or stops responding
>correctly, there is probably going to be some poor US fighter pilot
>who's going to have bad dreams for years after.
>
>There is a rumor that the aircraft that "crashed" outside Pittsburg
>went down that way.
According to my radio some passenger on the flight near Pittsburgh
locked himself into a restroom and got on his cell phone, called
911, said "We are being hijacked, the plane is going down."
I have this idea the pilot of that plane may have figured what
the hijackers' intentions were and deliberately crashed the plane
into the countryside.
And if I'm very very good someday I may get to meet him.
PS, radio just said Bush has just landed at the SAC HQ in
Nebraska.
Joel Rosenberg
"Dorothy J Heydt" <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:GJIHw...@kithrup.com...
> In article <sCsn7.288548$Jg.38...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>,
> Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Well, that isn't going to happen, I think. If the B2s aren't flying
> >right
> >> >now -- and I bet they aren't -- my guess is that they'll never be
> >launched.
> >>
> >> I'll lay odds that the B2s are airborne right now.
> >
> >I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off a
finger
> >if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both mean "airborne
on
> >their way to bomb somewhere" rather than "just off the ground so that
they
> >won't get blown up.")
>
> What they are doing, I'd bet a case of cookies, is patrolling the
> air over the US to make sure nothing is flying that isn't (as
> they say during a war) Ours.
>
Not the B2s, certainly, but also certainly there's a lot of that going on.
I'm sure that we'll hear about small planes that were in the air when the
grounding order went out being given a military escort while they landed,
where told to, and I'm hoping the pilots have been given a weapons release,
and instructions that it would be a real, real shame if they shoot down
anybody that they don't have to, but that planes aren't allowed to point
themselves anywhere but where they're told to.
> The difference between this and Pearl Harbor is that after Pearl
> is we knew whodunit and where they were.
>
I guess it depends on what you mean. Yes, we knew that it was the Empire of
Japan; no, we didn't know, and didn't much care to sort out, precisely who
it was in the Empire of Japan who was directly involved in the attack.
Joel Rosenberg
> In article <m3pu8xd...@flash.localdomain>,
> Mark Atwood <m...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> >If one of those aircraft "makes a false move" or stops responding
> >correctly, there is probably going to be some poor US fighter pilot
> >who's going to have bad dreams for years after.
> >
> >There is a rumor that the aircraft that "crashed" outside Pittsburg
> >went down that way.
>
> According to my radio some passenger on the flight near Pittsburgh
> locked himself into a restroom and got on his cell phone, called
> 911, said "We are being hijacked, the plane is going down."
>
> I have this idea the pilot of that plane may have figured what
> the hijackers' intentions were and deliberately crashed the plane
> into the countryside.
>
Not unknown. I'm told that the incident in The Great Sabatini
spoiler space
... where the pilot, who flames out while pointed at a city, takes the time
to steer the plane out to see, even though that makes him unable to bail out
in time, has numerous real-life examples.
Randolph Fritz
>
> "James Nicoll" <jdni...@panix.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> I saw Arafat in the news and he looked on the verge of tears.
>> His lower lip was trembling.
>
> expression on his face was sincere -- always a possibility -- he's probably
> realized the implications of this for the buy-the-terrorists-off policies,
> and that the US criticism of Israel for its preemptive attacks on terrorists
> is likely to turn into a request for lesson plans.
>
Arafat isn't stupid--he knows his people are under the gun and
outgunned. You don't have to compassionate not to want the USA for an
enemy.
As I may have already said, strategically this is a fuckin' disaster
for whoever did it.
Randolph
Jo Walton
jo...@ellegon.com "Joel Rosenberg" writes:
> I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off a finger
> if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both mean "airborne on
> their way to bomb somewhere" rather than "just off the ground so that they
> won't get blown up.")
Oh come on -- anywhere?
You need to know who it was before you bomb them.
The BBC reports that US bases in Britain are on high alert. It's more
likely they'd use the planes here to bomb the Middle East, that's what
they did when the bombed Libya.
I'm actually in the state right now where I'd be delighted if they
went out and flattened someone. But it does have to be the right
someone.
Matthew B. Tepper
Bet you a dime DD-B's right. Same six-month period.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Joel Rosenberg
"Jo Walton" <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:100023...@bluejo.demon.co.uk...
> In article <sCsn7.288548$Jg.38...@typhoon.kc.rr.com>
> jo...@ellegon.com "Joel Rosenberg" writes:
>
> > I would -- and I mean this quite literally -- be willing to cut off a
finger
> > if doing that could make that true (assuming that we both mean "airborne
on
> > their way to bomb somewhere" rather than "just off the ground so that
they
> > won't get blown up.")
>
> Oh come on -- anywhere?
No, not quite anywhere. I can think of quite a few targets, though.
>
> You need to know who it was before you bomb them.
No, I don't think that we do, and I don't think that we should.
I think that, even if this particular incident wasn't a Bin Laden project
(and it's entirely possible that, say, this was done by a larger, more
technically adept bunch of Timothy McVeighs), he -- and the states that have
supported him -- have already made their intentions clear, and that it is no
more wrong to bomb them to bits today than it would have been yesterday.
I think that the US should, as a matter of national policy, make it actively
dangerous to harbor terrorists, and I think that making that point is, in
the long run, far more important than sorting out the precise names and
roles of the individuals involved in this. I'm not suggesting that civil
rights should be abridged for suspects in the US -- in fact, I'm strongly
opposed to it -- but for those individuals and groups outside of the US that
have supported terrorism against the US, I want it to be open season, with
no bag limit, and I want that to be an ongoing part of US foreign policy,
and not just a few cruise missiles sent into what undoubtedly are, at the
moment, unoccupied training camps in the Bekaa valley.
Joel Rosenberg
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:CQtn7.793$lE3....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
You're on. Hope you win.
Matthew B. Tepper
I do too; but neither outcome will really make me "happy."
Joel Rosenberg
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyş@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oVtn7.800$lE3....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...> > "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyş@earthlink.net> wrote in message
tell -- small-d democrats waiting in the wings.