Barry Pearson
NACSA Webmaster
members of the NACSA National Committee from Barry Pearson
By 1st September I will update my web site.
The Committee should consider 3 questions:
1: What will I say about what has happened during August?
2: What contributions do the Committee want to make?
3: What changes to NACSA should the Committee make?
The Committee, not by me, caused the damaging fuss over the last 2 weeks.
People would have seen a web site with about 150 informative pages, hardly
any of which even mentioned NACSA. But the Committee focused attention on 2
pages which it didn't like, and in the process undermined its position on
free speech with a set of incompatible statements and actions.Only the
Committee can limit these problems - I can't.
I'm following this e-mail with some others, covering points that the
Committee needs to think hard about. Here is a summary of the follow-ups:
Follow-up 1: The nature of the material that NACSA is still publishing
My web site warned NACSA of the dangers of its published material coming
back to haunt it. The Chair said "John Ward has portrayed NACSA in an
extremely negative manner, based on outdated and false material - often used
by Hollis as propaganda to sell us as a group of deadbeat dads".
But the latest Survival Guide is nearly as bad as the one published 4 years
ago that caused problems for Andy Farquarson. This issue cannot be made To
go away just by statements from the Committee - you should assume that
ministers & MPs & civil servants with any interest in the CSA already have
copies. They know what I know, but perhaps the Committee doesn't know - that
NACSA is still vulnerable to this criticism.
This follow-up e-mail gives the precise references in the latest Survival
Guide to demonstrate this to you.
Follow-up 2: The Book Of The Dead
My web site identified that the BOTD was inadequate evidence that the CSA
was causing deaths. The Committee distorted this analysis into claims of
disrespect, which is actually a totally different topic.
I believe the last death in the BOTD is dated 24th August 1999. (Terence
Brett is not in the BOTD, and I think was January 2000). So if the BOTD is
evidence - it is evidence that with a caseload of over a million, the CSA
hasn't caused any deaths in the last 2 years. Whatever the actual death
rate, the BOTD isn't useful evidence.
NACSA is publishing on the Internet such material as "Alan Creeton . was
secretly paying maintenance for an illegitimate baby . He died to keep a
secret"; and "Lloyd Mather . must be taking drugs again . (he had an)
inability to break his drug habit". Is this what they or their families
would want? In fact, how many of the families have been consulted about the
BOTD?
Follow-up 3: Blocking & banning and the reaction to this
Martin Davies has supported my statement that posts from me to certain
forums simply disappeared. He had posted confirming this once to a NACSA
forum, and twice to the uk.gov.agency.csa newsgroup. I doubt if the
Committee believes that Martin is lying. I doubt if any significant numbers
of people reading NACSA forums or the newsgroup believe he is lying either.
Whereas I simply state the facts that my posts disappeared, Webmaster has
accused me explicitly of lying, and appears now to have to accuse Martin of
lying to sustain this view. Martin's evidence won't go away; it is preserved
in the Google archive.
The Committee has been fighting NACSA's own supporters. It deleted threads,
it has banned posting the URL of my web site so that people who want
information from it are having to be informed by email, and the Committee
tried not to publicise why it was doing this and had to be forced to make an
open statement by people taking a stand in the forums.People aren't stupid -
they can see that this is undermining NACSA's claim
to support free speech. Even statements by the Committee stating Committee
decisions have gone - for example, I can't find the statement about the
Committee's decision to remove my spreadsheet, nor any proper Committee
statement about my web site. People are left with innuendo & rumours &
inconsistent statements. How can people have confidence that anything they
say will remain visible?
Follow-up 4: NACSA discussion forums
NACSA has devised a problem for itself. It has 3 incompatible policies. It
is trying to avoid acknowledging that they are incompatible.
1: NACSA claims to espouse free speech.
2: NACSA is determined to continue to supply its own discussion forums.
3: NACSA has a policy of presenting itself as a credible lobbying group.
I hope it is obvious that at least one of these has to be jettisoned!
The general overview of how to contribute is
at:http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/how_to_contribute.htm
The types of contribution are listed in:
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/guest_contributions/who_can_contribute
_to_this_site.htm
The types of contribution described there are: "Article or paper, Dissent,
Letter or announcement, Correction or additional information, Advertising or
promotional material, Others - I'm flexible!"
The style guidelines are listed in:
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/guest_contributions/style_guidelines.h
tm
Please use mailto:contri...@childsupportanalysis.co.uk
If NACSA wants to link to my web site, the resources to assist are at:
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/this_web_site/linking_to_this_website.
htm
Barry Pearson (aka John Ward)
NACSA membership number: 991553
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk
Around 10 months ago when I was asked to become site Webmaster I was given a
clear and unanimous mandate by the National Committee to run the NACSA
website in way which promotes unity and offers advice,
help and assistance to people having difficulty with the Child Support
Agency
However over the last 10 days the forum system has been completely disrupted
by the actions of Mr Barry Pearson and as our revised policy is that "NACSA
provide these forums for those seeking help and advice. We want to encourage
new visitors to our site and emphasize the need to remove the stigma of
"deadbeat dads". NACSA fully support freedom of speech however we will not
condone misuse of our forums."
I have therefore used my clear mandate as Webmaster to solve this "forum
misuse" situation and bring the
forums back to normal I have taken the decision to exclude Barry Pearson
from any further discussions on this site and I have been backed by the
national committee in this decision
I have not taken this decision lightly however I feel that unless I take
action people who need help will be prevented from obtaining the help they
desperately need and the common good outweighs the views of one individual
who has his own site at http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk should people
wish to visit and read his views.
NACSA Webmaster
webm...@nacsa.org
martindavies
NACSA Webmaster <webm...@nacsa.org> wrote in message
news:9l9gol$20e$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
Just to add to that, at least 3 other posts by at least 2 other people
(besides Barry) have failed to show.
If this isn't banning, then there is a problem at NACSA's end.
2 of those posts were mine.
And NACSA had nothing to do with that?
Spread the blame about - it does include NACSA.
and as our revised policy is that "NACSA
> provide these forums for those seeking help and advice. We want to
encourage
> new visitors to our site and emphasize the need to remove the stigma of
> "deadbeat dads". NACSA fully support freedom of speech however we will not
> condone misuse of our forums."
Interesting use of the term "misuse". Especially as its very open ended.
After all, its all right for people to see ideas such as hitting the CSA
system with a virus, but not for people to be helped?
And you know as well as I do that the problems mushroomed after the
deletions (which to be fair to Stuart, the webmaster, he did apologise for
having to do).
>
> I have therefore used my clear mandate as Webmaster to solve this "forum
> misuse" situation and bring the
> forums back to normal I have taken the decision to exclude Barry Pearson
> from any further discussions on this site and I have been backed by the
> national committee in this decision
>
> I have not taken this decision lightly however I feel that unless I take
> action people who need help will be prevented from obtaining the help they
> desperately need and the common good outweighs the views of one individual
> who has his own site at http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk should
people
> wish to visit and read his views.
>
> NACSA Webmaster
> webm...@nacsa.org
>
This will also cause a backlash. Just like the deletions did.
Now, who's next to be banned?
Non-volunteers please.
Martin <><
>
>
Pat Winstanley
says...
> I have not taken this decision lightly however I feel that unless I take
> action people who need help will be prevented from obtaining the help they
> desperately need and the common good outweighs the views of one individual
> who has his own site at http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk should people
> wish to visit and read his views.
>
>
I'm curious... what help are NACSA site visitors being denied by Barry's
presence on the NACSA site (and/or the existence of his website which
simply deals with the same general issues and the same basic aims but
from a different approach)?
How will one person posting their views in a forum deny help to anyone
else?
How is it denying people help by offering a range of sources, any pne of
which may just have the answer they need even though that particular
answer isn't currently on one of the other linked sites?
Is Barry's site directly contradicting facts that people need? Or is it
simply differing over some matters of opinion where no opionion can be
proved right or wrong?
What is there on Barry's site that would mislead the visitor who is
looking for information about the CSA law and how to navigate it?
Jon
wrote:
I off lined his sight, and read probably most of it!
My only dislike was that it was not possible to easily see if every
page had been read/reached.. I prefer a larger "page" with hyperlinks
used to x-reference data, not as a navigator!
I persoanlly found his analysis of the problems of both systems
inability to consolidtae the cross funding methods to be disturbing..
those "few cases" will come back to haunt the legislators, as will
cases of "high earners" being taken through the CSA. The whole
mentality of CS is still fundamentally wrong (in the CSA/law sence)..
especially the mixing of 2 ideas..
I didn't find anything I felt was to the decriment of NASCA...
Personaly even if JW/BP had tried to "fix the system" or gain support
for his site to the detriment of NASCA, NASCA have probably done
themselves more harm, on the face of things. A quiet e-mail saying
"B.. we don't agree with XYZ, so can you refrain"... especially as the
forums have been used for far more agressive and ilegal incitements
than self promotion. This is a huge shame as NASCA is one of the few
bodies that "could" allow positive changes in the law in the future,
rather than being branded as a bunch of hotheads that can be dismissed
due to a few posts, or ideas... Basic covernement tactics of picking
one small area to dismiss/denegrate the rest of an orginisation...
Farmers & Petrol campainers begin the most, and best, examples of this
tactic. "Deadbeat dads" being another!
Jon
--
Jonathan Wilson
Phone 07775 638904.
I can only offer advise! No responsibility can be accepted.
All sugestions are provided on a personal basis,
such as would be recieved by talking to a friend.
Barry Pearson
news:cdbint4h6ldvo4fi7...@4ax.com...
[snip]
> I off lined his sight, and read probably most of it!
>
> My only dislike was that it was not possible to easily see if every
> page had been read/reached.. I prefer a larger "page" with
> hyperlinks used to x-reference data, not as a navigator!
Is that the only dislike? Wow!
If I understand what you mean, there will be such a page in the 1st September
version. I ran out of time - there are about 150 pages. Generating such a site
map isn't a standard Dreamweaver feature. There is an extension that was
recommended on a Macromedia newsgroup:
Web Kitchen
http://www.matterform.com/webkitchen/index.php
But I don't need it all, just the site map feature. I don't necessarily even
need it to work within Dreamweaver - I'll probably only use it once a month. Any
views, anyone?
One person said "colours could be pleasanter".
But if I told what I had originally planned, you would see how far short it
currently falls. In some cases better "executive summaries" are needed for
topics, and for other topics all there is are links which need
expansion/explanation. There are 1 or 2 topics missing entirely. Fortunately
part of my target audience are on their summer breaks - MPs & academics. So I
haven't started part of the roll out yet. And besides, I think it will gain
credibility after its first monthly upgrade - some directories want confidence
that it is not just a one-shot site.
[snip]
> I didn't find anything I felt was to the decriment of NASCA...
There is hardly any criticism of NACSA. On one page I pointed out that the
content of their publications would continue to cause them credibility problems.
On another page I showed that their "Book Of The Dead", which they like to use
as evidence that the CSA causes deaths, actually shows no such thing.
The NACSA Committee over-reacted to those 2 pages out of about 150 and banned
the URL. Then debate erupted in their forums, with many people fearing the worst
but being content to be denied a reference to it so that they could check for
themselves! (I had very little involvement during those debates - partly because
I was blocked from key forums).
> Personaly even if JW/BP had tried to "fix the system" or gain support
> for his site to the detriment of NASCA, NASCA have probably done
> themselves more harm, on the face of things. A quiet e-mail saying
> "B.. we don't agree with XYZ, so can you refrain"... especially as the
> forums have been used for far more agressive and ilegal incitements
> than self promotion. This is a huge shame as NASCA is one of the few
> bodies that "could" allow positive changes in the law in the future,
> rather than being branded as a bunch of hotheads that can be dismissed
> due to a few posts, or ideas... Basic covernement tactics of picking
> one small area to dismiss/denegrate the rest of an orginisation...
> Farmers & Petrol campainers begin the most, and best, examples of this
> tactic. "Deadbeat dads" being another!
The point of the limited criticisms of NACSA on those 2 pages was to show them
that their tactics were wrong, and they needed to change. They were in the
context of advising NACSA on what they needed to do to be a better lobby group.
After all, another page explained why we needed a lobby group, and pointed that
NACSA was what there was.
There is criticism of nearly everything and nearly everyone somewhere on that
web site! I'm trying to be independent and objective, and the harsh fact is that
there are few blameless parties involved.
The site has a guest contributions section, waiting for content. I'm the
publisher & editor, but I don't intend to be the sole author. The NACSA
Committee have received 3 emailed invitations from me to contribute material
and/or supply corrections. No replies so far.
--
Barry Pearson (aka John Ward)
Boris
Pearson on the NACSA website and it stunk. The webmaster has done the right
thing here, re-instated order and barred a disruptive poster who was
bringing the site to a standstill.
Flame wars break out on any forum or newsgroup from time to time and die
down after a few days, but Barry Pearson would not let it die, he kept
pushing and pushing the limits of the envelope and brought the ban on
himself.
"Pat Winstanley" <ng_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.15e302c0b...@news.blueyonder.co.uk...
Pat Winstanley
> Subject: Re: Barry Pearson
> From: "Boris" <bo...@boris.com>
> Newsgroups: uk.gov.agency.csa
>
> I am getting involved in this late, I saw the disruption caused by Barry
> Pearson on the NACSA website and it stunk. The webmaster has done the right
> thing here, re-instated order and barred a disruptive poster who was
> bringing the site to a standstill.
>
How did a poster who apparently couldn't post (any attempt to do so
was blocked) bring (or almost bring) a site to a standstill?
> Flame wars break out on any forum or newsgroup from time to time and die
> down after a few days, but Barry Pearson would not let it die, he kept
> pushing and pushing the limits of the envelope and brought the ban on
> himself.
>
>
That's odd. you must have seen a site I didn't at the time.
Barry Pearson
news:9lbpo4$5au$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
> I am getting involved in this late, I saw the disruption caused by Barry
> Pearson on the NACSA website and it stunk. The webmaster has
> done the right thing here, re-instated order and barred a disruptive
> poster who was bringing the site to a standstill.
>
> Flame wars break out on any forum or newsgroup from time to
> time and die down after a few days, but Barry Pearson would
> not let it die, he kept pushing and pushing the limits of the
> envelope and brought the ban on himself.
Here are the URLs of the NACSA forums. Go see the facts!
Such as - why are there so few posts of mine there? And why aren't they flaming
anyone?
http://www.nacsa.org/access/
http://www.nacsa.org/advice/
http://www.nacsa.org/campaign/
http://www.nacsa.org/pwc/
http://www.nacsa.org/reform/
http://www.nacsa.org/sisters/
http://www.nacsa.org/NACSA_Webmaster/
--
Barry Pearson (aka John Ward)
Neil Hopkins
>I am getting involved in this late, I saw the disruption caused by Barry
>Pearson on the NACSA website and it stunk. The webmaster has done the right
>thing here, re-instated order and barred a disruptive poster who was
>bringing the site to a standstill.
>
>Flame wars break out on any forum or newsgroup from time to time and die
>down after a few days, but Barry Pearson would not let it die, he kept
>pushing and pushing the limits of the envelope and brought the ban on
>himself.
>
I didn't see the relevant debate on the NACSA forums - what was the
disruption exactly?
--
neil h.
Buffy: What are you doing? Five words or less.
Spike: Out. For. A. Walk. ......... Bitch.
Barry Pearson
news:3b797bb1...@news.cis.dfn.de...
[snip]
> I didn't see the relevant debate on the NACSA forums -
> what was the disruption exactly?
I'm not going to restart a "yes, you did", "no, I didn't" war. So I'll just
state a fact that in not in dispute:
From early on 4th August until late on 10th August no messages from me appeared
in any of the following NACSA forums:
- Advice, where people go to get help.
- General, where less specific discussions take place.
- Reform, where an attempt is being made to rethink child support, and intended
to be one of the forums promoted to MPs.
- Webmaster. (Not relevant to this discussion).
(I claim it was because I was blocked. Webmaster claims it was because I
pretended I was blocked. But no one disputes the fact that there were no
messages from me there).
This is the period when so much of the damage was done. That damage was done by
other people discussing me and my web site, not by messages from me in these
forums.
For interest:
- My Internet Explorer cache is intact from 18th June to the current date, and
I've taken a copy of it. If I could be bothered, I could probably reconstruct
much of the deleted dialogue!
- When the ban on me was announced to the forums on 13th August, I took Internet
Explorer "single file archives" of the forum indexes, which show just how little
(often not at all) I had actually contributed to any of the disruptive debates,
or indeed to the forums at all, up to that point.
See:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=3b6c2...@bignews.vip.uk.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=3b72e...@bignews.vip.uk.com
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=9l5uhe%24i9k%2...@uranium.btinternet.co
m
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=VFvd7.23083%24pv6....@news1.cablei
net.net
--
Barry Pearson (aka John Ward)
Barry Pearson
>
> My only dislike was that it was not possible to easily see if every
> page had been read/reached.. I prefer a larger "page" with hyperlinks
> used to x-reference data, not as a navigator!
I have updated my web site for the 1st of the month, and included a site map.
Let me know what you think.
--
Barry Pearson
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk
Neil Hopkins
Pearson) wrote:
>Jon <ampall...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:<cdbint4h6ldvo4fi7...@4ax.com>...
>[snip]
>> I off lined his sight, and read probably most of it!
>>
>> My only dislike was that it was not possible to easily see if every
>> page had been read/reached.. I prefer a larger "page" with hyperlinks
>> used to x-reference data, not as a navigator!
>[snip]
>
>I have updated my web site for the 1st of the month, and included a site map.
>
>Let me know what you think.
It's looking good on a first glance Barry - the site map is very
useful. The only point I would worry about is some of the colours
could do with toning down a little, but that's just my opinion ... :-)
Barry Pearson
[snip]
> It's looking good on a first glance Barry - the site map is very
> useful. The only point I would worry about is some of the colours
> could do with toning down a little, but that's just my opinion ... :-)
Ha! Charles Atkinson's comment on the 1st August version was "Colours could be
pleasanter"!
I appear to have a problem with the colours - please help! I am prepared to
revise the colours completely for the next significant update on 1st October.
Jon
Pearson) wrote:
>Jon <ampall...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:<cdbint4h6ldvo4fi7...@4ax.com>...
>[snip]
>> I off lined his sight, and read probably most of it!
>>
>> My only dislike was that it was not possible to easily see if every
>> page had been read/reached.. I prefer a larger "page" with hyperlinks
>> used to x-reference data, not as a navigator!
>[snip]
>
>I have updated my web site for the 1st of the month, and included a site map.
>
>Let me know what you think.
The site map is just what was needed, I can now see if I've followed
the main links... and drill down from there.
It might be an idea to have the site map as a TOC, eg.
MainHeading
SubHeading
LowestLevel
SecondHeading
SubLevel
etc..
Then I could see if any new links have occured, and then check them
out. (IE changes the colour of visited links) But them I'm a lazy
reader, so I'd probably miss any changes made to those links I've
already visited... however I belive if you Favorateize a site then
changed pages mark the links as un-read?
The only problem I have with colours is the red, it tends to distract
the eye. I'd go for an off white, possibly a cream tinge, or pail
blue-e-grey. But this is only a sugestion... personally my house is
painted Bright Red, Barney Purple, Grass Green, and sunrise yellow
(although one colour per room ;-) But the children chose them...
that's my excuse, personally I love the colours.
Barry Pearson
news:8amapt41sqkdcm7jp...@4ax.com...
[snip]
> It might be an idea to have the site map as a TOC, eg.
>
> MainHeading
> SubHeading
> LowestLevel
> SecondHeading
> SubLevel
> etc..
>
> Then I could see if any new links have occured, and then check them
> out. (IE changes the colour of visited links) But them I'm a lazy
> reader, so I'd probably miss any changes made to those links I've
> already visited... however I belive if you Favorateize a site then
> changed pages mark the links as un-read?
>
> The only problem I have with colours is the red, it tends to distract
> the eye. I'd go for an off white, possibly a cream tinge, or pail
> blue-e-grey. But this is only a sugestion... personally my house is
> painted Bright Red, Barney Purple, Grass Green, and sunrise yellow
> (although one colour per room ;-) But the children chose them...
> that's my excuse, personally I love the colours.
Just a thought.
I've just checked my web site against a number of different standards. In some
(eg. HTML 4.0 Transition) it looked OK, in others (eg. HTML 4.0 Strict) it
looked crap.
To me, the site map IS like a TOC. You appear to think differently.
What HTML standard are you using? What browser? What version?