OMG! Google bought the Deja Archives!!!
Elisabeth Riba
makes it easy to look up and quote something I had written in the past.
Well, just a few minutes ago, I did that, but instead of getting the
listing from Deja, it took me to http://groups.google.com :
GOOGLE ACQUIRES DEJA'S USENET DISCUSSION SERVICE
Google Inc., the award-winning search engine company, has acquired
Deja.com's Usenet Discussion Service, including its archive of more than
500 million messages--a terabyte of human conversation dating back to
1995. Since reaching agreement with Deja, Google has been working
non-stop to ensure access remains available to the largest archive of
newsgroups on the net.
As this historic Deja archive is reformatted to improve performance,
Google will provide high speed, high quality access to newsgroup postings
already archived by Google from August 2000 onward. Once the optimized
Deja archive is added, you will be able to access more Usenet information
than ever before. You'll be able to peruse not only recent posts, but all
of the 500 million archived messages (many of which had been taken
offline previously) with the speed and efficiency of a Google search.
In addition to expanding the number of postings available, (italicized:)
Google will soon be providing improved browsing capabilities and
reinstating posting.(end italics) In the interim, these services will
not be available. Registered Deja.com users will continue to have access
to their my-deja email accounts, but no new users are being added to the
Deja mail system.
For more information about the transition from Deja to Google, please
read Google's press release at
http://www.google.com/press/pressrel/pressrelease48.html
So far, searching newsgroups is still listed as "beta" and isn't as
full-functioned as DejaNews offered. But it looks like we'll be getting
our archives back!!!
--
----------> Elisabeth Anne Riba * l...@osmond-riba.org <----------
"[She] is one of the secret masters of the world: a librarian.
They control information. Don't ever piss one off."
- Spider Robinson, "Callahan Touch"
Ste Birmo
> So far, searching newsgroups is still listed as "beta" and isn't as
> full-functioned as DejaNews offered.
Google's search criteria and browsing method is substandard.
Comeback Deja.com, I hardly knew thee...
Elisabeth Riba
Give them a month to get organized.
They only announced the decision today;
I don't know why Deja is already down, but Google doesn't have ANY of the
Deja archive up yet. Right now, all we've got is posts archived by Google
since August 2000.
Meanwhile, let's e-mail polite, constructive e-mails telling Google how we
want to see the archives and what features are necessities.
Maybe we can actually get some positive input and make things better!
goo...@fan.com
this transaction. However I'm also scared too because Deja News is
important to me. I consider Deja News to be "half the Internet".
The beta format is terrible. Google needs to display threads correctly
(i.e. a long series of indented subject headers)
Plus, I want to see a text only display. No fonts, not even on the
headers; Just simple, logical and no fluff!
I don't mind fonts when doing searches for web pages but when you're
sifting through many hundreds of threaded subject headers, fonts don't
help, they hinder.
Given the fact that Google is a superior web search engine, this
acquisition may turn out to be a really good thing. I sure hope it works
out. Deja News used to be exceptionally good until the new wave
management came to town and started dismantling it piece by piece and at
one time threatening the classic interface. I hope Google keeps on some
of the original ppl who helped put Deja News together in the first place
because I have a feeling that beneath Deja's new wave management there
exist some rather wise and considerate founding fathers.
Paul Bennett
>
>A long time back, I created a shortcut to my author profile in Deja --
>makes it easy to look up and quote something I had written in the past.
>
>Well, just a few minutes ago, I did that, but instead of getting the
>listing from Deja, it took me to http://groups.google.com :
>
>GOOGLE ACQUIRES DEJA'S USENET DISCUSSION SERVICE
>
OMFG! This is the worst move that either company have ever made.
Bring back my threads! Bring back my Deja!
Meanwhile, I'm looking for *any* other server that works.
Thusfar, www.newsranger.com is the best I've found.
---
Pb
Just Another Disgruntled Ex-Deja-User.
Paul Bennett
<MPG.14f1f3a36...@news1.execulink.com>, goo...@fan.com wrote...
>
>The beta format is terrible. Google needs to display threads correctly
>(i.e. a long series of indented subject headers)
>
>Plus, I want to see a text only display. No fonts, not even on the
>headers; Just simple, logical and no fluff!
Why oh why didn't they leave it in the hands of deja (or at least apparently in
the hands of the deja engine) until they'd come up with something better.
>Given the fact that Google is a superior web search engine, this
>acquisition may turn out to be a really good thing. I sure hope it works
>out.
Hmm. Web-search and News-search are such fundamentally different beasts,
though. They could very well product The Suckiest Product Ever (tm) if they try
and treat usenet in the same way as the web.
Sure, some of the indexing techniques are easily translated, but you're
(ideally) indexing totally different kinds of data. For a start, it's a
mutli-field search and not a plaintext search, and beyond that the complications
multiply. E.g. you can't use a crawler to index usenet, you need a live(-ish)
update.
I'll be very impressed (but very surprised) if they can get the usenet search up
to anything like the speed of the web search.
>I hope Google keeps on some
>of the original ppl who helped put Deja News together in the first place
>because I have a feeling that beneath Deja's new wave management there
>exist some rather wise and considerate founding fathers.
Don't count on it. The big buzzword in e-business is "speed", remember? The
maxim is always that change is the End in and of itself, rather than the Means.
---
Pb
And now a moment of silent pity for those
trying but not managing to brawl. -- James Waldby.
gardenl...@hotmail.com.invalid
doing searches for known groups doesn't give the desired results, does
this mean the end of using the usenet as we knew it with deja?
thanks for all help
len
On 12 Feb 2001 16:42:21 GMT, Elisabeth Riba <l...@osmond-riba.org>
wrote:
- -
happy gardening (drop 'NoSpam' & 'Invalid') from e/mail addy
'it works for me it could work for you,'
"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
gardenl...@hotmail.com.invalid
i've used mydeja for a few years now and right now i agree bring back
that format.
len
On 12 Feb 2001 18:02:00 GMT, Elisabeth Riba <l...@osmond-riba.org>
wrote:
>Ste Birmo <s...@birmo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Elisabeth Riba wrote:
>>> So far, searching newsgroups is still listed as "beta" and isn't as
>>> full-functioned as DejaNews offered.
>
>> Google's search criteria and browsing method is substandard.
>
>> Comeback Deja.com, I hardly knew thee...
>
>Give them a month to get organized.
>They only announced the decision today;
>I don't know why Deja is already down, but Google doesn't have ANY of the
>Deja archive up yet. Right now, all we've got is posts archived by Google
>since August 2000.
>
>Meanwhile, let's e-mail polite, constructive e-mails telling Google how we
>want to see the archives and what features are necessities.
>Maybe we can actually get some positive input and make things better!
- -
Paul Bennett
<3pdg8tgrakch6ht4s...@4ax.com>,
gardenl...@hotmail.com.Invalid wrote...
>
>is there a contact em addy for google?
>
>i've used mydeja for a few years now and right now i agree bring back
>that format.
>
>len
>
sup...@deja.com
groups-...@google.com
I've sent an obnoxious email to both of 'em, and I encourage ALL deja fans to do
the same. Hopefully we can get this orrible mess sorted out fairly quickly.
---
Pb
Jorn Barger
> Meanwhile, let's e-mail polite, constructive e-mails telling Google how we
> want to see the archives and what features are necessities. Maybe we can
> actually get some positive input and make things better!
My interactions with Google support have been very positive-- I think it
will get better very quickly.
--
http://www.robotwisdom.com/ "Relentlessly intelligent
yet playful, polymathic in scope of interests, minimalist
but user-friendly design." --Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
pl...@pudding.com
> Elisabeth Riba <l...@osmond-riba.org> wrote:
> > Meanwhile, let's e-mail polite, constructive e-mails telling Google how we
> > want to see the archives and what features are necessities. Maybe we can
> > actually get some positive input and make things better!
>
> My interactions with Google support have been very positive-- I think it
> will get better very quickly.
Yeah, Google is a good egg. Some ppl just like to bitch!
Jeremy
Geez, they don't even have the Deja database online *at all* yet. Give
them a chance, huh?
--
Jeremy | jer...@exit109.com
Paul Bennett
Jeremy wrote...
No. Absolutely not. They obviously knew in advance that this'd happen, even if
the rest of the universe didn't. They **could** have made a better effort to
copy the Deja interface. They really really could. It smacks of a move by the
PHBs and not the Thinkers.
Typical Mentality: "Ooh, ooh, expand, expand. We'll deal with the troubles of
the surviving user base if we end up having one. No sense wasting time on
something that might not happen."
JM .02
---
Pb
Just Another Outraged Ex-Deja Fan, who happens to know more than a bit about the arcane technical aspects, and doesn't care to understand the ridiculous corporate nonsense.
Paul Bennett
<773092e4b350ed10...@melontraffickers.com>, A. Melon wrote...
>
>You send them "obnoxious email" and expect them to react favorably?
>
Well, it wasn't obnoxious as such. "Obnoxious" was more a turn of phrase.
It was partly composed in the heat of passion, I'll admit, and stated my
surprise and dismay in no uncertain terms, but it wasn't what one'd really call
flamage.
I'm sure that if we all kept quiet, we'd get what we deserved. "All that is
required for evil to triumph that good men to do nothing", and so forth...
---
Pb
Mike Walsh
>but how do we access our old mydeja groups?
Yeah! Where's my frickin' groups list!
MJW
Nick Theodorakis
Bwaaahhh!!! <sniff>
C'mon, a little warning would have been nice...
Also, I've bookmarked few interesting posts; if I had notice I could have
downloaded them.
Nick
--
Nick Theodorakis
nicholas_t...@urmc.rochester.edu
Nick Theodorakis
Thanks for the tip...
One slightly worrisome thing is that newsranger just let me sign up and post
without e-mailing me to confirm that I wanted someone posting to usenet under my
addy!
Nick
>Just Another Disgruntled Ex-Deja-User.
--
Nick Theodorakis
nicholas_t...@urmc.rochester.edu
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
<9698en$pjf$1...@news.panix.com> , wrote:
>Meanwhile, let's e-mail polite, constructive e-mails telling Google how we
>want to see the archives and what features are necessities.
>Maybe we can actually get some positive input and make things better!
> ----------> Elisabeth Anne Riba * l...@osmond-riba.org <----------
> "[She] is one of the secret masters of the world: a librarian.
> They control information. Don't ever piss one off."
> - Spider Robinson, "Callahan Touch"
In other words, don't mention newsranger .
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
<MPG.14f1f3a36...@news1.execulink.com> , wrote:
...
>Plus, I want to see a text only display. No fonts, not even on the
>headers; Just simple, logical and no fluff!
Why no headers?
>Given the fact that Google is a superior web search engine, this
>acquisition may turn out to be a really good thing.
I don't bother listing my pages on goggle because they keep copies
(wasteful), they hav little coverage (which follows), and their enjin has
almost no options: and-match only. DejaNews has a *LOT* to teach Goggle
with just what you see, not to mention the founders.
...
>because I have a feeling that beneath Deja's new wave management there
>exist some rather wise and considerate founding fathers.
<a href="http://ecn.ab.ca/brewhaha/">BrewJay's Babble Bin</a>
Craig Franck
> Elisabeth Riba <l...@osmond-riba.org> wrote:
> > Meanwhile, let's e-mail polite, constructive e-mails telling Google how we
> > want to see the archives and what features are necessities. Maybe we can
> > actually get some positive input and make things better!
>
> My interactions with Google support have been very positive-- I think it
> will get better very quickly.
What did they say when you told them you wanted to actaully browse
newsgroups? They could have left the Deja interface up when they
bought the database. It's like buying an airline and then grounding all
the planes.
--
Craig Franck
Craig...@email.msn.com
Dover, NH
Meoooooooooowbot
>What did they say when you told them you wanted to actaully browse
>newsgroups? They could have left the Deja interface up when they
>bought the database. It's like buying an airline and then grounding all
>the planes.
In the reports it is mentioned that Google is only now negotiating with Deja
staff about continued employment. That suggests the closing was in all
probability not announced in advance to the staff, and hardware likely
physically secured to guard against the usual layoff/closing risks.
These risks would be especially acute in a transaction involving the Deja
franchise, given that the integrity of the database represents most of its
value.
Mike Warren
> I don't bother listing my pages on goggle [..]
How do you prevent it?
> because they keep copies (wasteful), [..]
This is bad?
> they hav little coverage (which follows) [..]
They have one of the biggest indexes.
> , and their enjin has almost no options: and-match only.
Their ``enjin'' seems to do far, far better than anyone else's...
--
mike [at] mike [dash] warren.com
<URL:http://www.mike-warren.com>
GPG: 0x579911BD :: 87F2 4D98 BDB0 0E90 EE2A 0CF9 1087 0884 5799 11BD
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
>> I don't bother listing my pages on goggle [..]
>How do you prevent it?
Generally, pages hav to be explicitly submitted to an enjin, as
with AltaVista -- despite AltaVista-Canada's *LIE* that they have an
automatic crawler. META tags can exclude your pages from crawlers from
people who would do you a favour.
>> because they keep copies (wasteful), [..]
>This is bad?
Waste is bad. A simple index contains a master list of all the
words that occur. The words point to a list of addresses where those words
occur.
Phrase-matching requires more storage and not the page itself.
>> they hav little coverage (which follows) [..]
>They have one of the biggest indexes.
It's full of raw data. I'll see how it compares in coverage,
and if it's below MSN then I won't be happy.
>> , and their enjin has almost no options: and-match only.
>Their ``enjin'' seems to do far, far better than anyone else's...
Not on this count. hotbot is for flexibility -- booleans, domain
limits, phrase searches, wildcards. They're also in the top five regarding
coverage.
-=<(| The trouble with distributed archives would be cross-group gaps
in threads without a search enjin to do the threading. |)>=-
Richard V. Lamb
rec.arts.marching.drumcorps.
Vince Lamb
--------------------------------------------
Zak,
*I* can tell you what's aggravating about it:
1.) I can no longer post from the assimilated deja.com. I had to find
another
service to do so. See below for my complaint about it!
2.) All my saved threads have vanished, as have all my subscribed
newsgroups.
I had to re-subscribe from scratch.
3.) The ability "to search all the newsgroups from 1995 on" doesn't yet
exist.
As of now, we can only go back to August 2000--using the database Google
already had. Deja.com was about to go back to Dec. 1998, so we've *lost* a
year and a half!
4.) Google's database is non-hiearchical and non-threaded.
Even though Google has promised to restore all these features, they've all
been lost for the near/foreseeable future. This has been a great loss for
Deja.com users. At least when Microsoft bought Hotmail, there was *no*
interruption in service. Google could have at least done the same!
BTW, does anyone have a free posting service that they are happy with?
Compared to Deja.com, MailandNews.com is *s-l-o-w*! The only good thing I
can
say about it is that I can read Ron Allard's posts, which did not appear on
dejanews.
Vince Lamb
Dedicated Deja.com user since 1995.
>===== Original Message From "Zak Winnick" <z...@surfscape.org> =====
>I don't see what's so bad about this...The best search engine on the net
>just got better because now you will be able to search all the newsgroups
>from 1995 on! I think it's really cool, and I'm glad they did it!
>
>--Zak Winnick
>http://www.surfscape.org/
>z...@surfscape.org
>
>
>"SBurstall" <sbur...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010212192238...@ng-cv1.aol.com...
>> AARRGGHHH!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------
Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:
http://MailAndNews.com
Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or
POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.
------------------------------------------------------------
gardenl...@hotmail.com.invalid
with no apparent way to set up forums as in my-deja.
http://www.usenet-replayer.com/
so for now for me it's back to go old reliable 'agent' as my sole news
reader.
len
- -
gardenl...@hotmail.com.invalid
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Usenet/Web_Based/
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Internet/Clients/Usenet/
len
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 03:45:29 -0500, "Richard V. Lamb"
<vince...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
- -
Alex Oren
} On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:14:52 -0800, in article
} <773092e4b350ed10...@melontraffickers.com>, A. Melon wrote...
} >
} >You send them "obnoxious email" and expect them to react favorably?
} >
}
} Well, it wasn't obnoxious as such. "Obnoxious" was more a turn of phrase.
}
} It was partly composed in the heat of passion, I'll admit, and stated my
} surprise and dismay in no uncertain terms, but it wasn't what one'd really call
} flamage.
Here's what I wrote them:
> Dear sirs,
>
> Please reinstate the search pages from Deja.com until you are able
> to provide at least the same functionality form the Google site.
>
> That includes:
> - True threaded result display (a tree structure).
> - AND, OR, NOT and NEAR operators for all fields in the advanced
> search.
> - Search by message ID.
> - Reply and Follow-up functionality.
>
> Thank you in advance.
If they get enough *polite* requests they will take notice.
} I'm sure that if we all kept quiet, we'd get what we deserved. "All that is
} required for evil to triumph that good men to do nothing", and so forth...
Each one of us should write them an email and ask them to keep presence on
the alt.fan.dejanews newsgroup. I did.
Have fun,
Alex.
--
My email address is intentionally mangled to foil spambots.
Please remove the "---filter---" from the address for replying.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Paul Bennett
<omuh8t4c68tan1b40...@4ax.com>,
gardenl...@hotmail.com.Invalid wrote...
>
>i've tried the following 2 groups but they are hopelessly slow and
>with no apparent way to set up forums as in my-deja.
>
>http://www.usenet-replayer.com/
>
>http://www.mailandnews.com/
>
>so for now for me it's back to go old reliable 'agent' as my sole news
>reader.
http://www.newsranger.com/ works great for reading and posting. You have to
manage your subscriptions yourself, by making bookmarks/favorites out of 'em,
but that can't really be considered a hardship, and is actually turning out to
be a great way of doing things for me.
It's more anonymous than Deja ever was, too.
There's no search however, which is probably bad for a lot of Deja users.
---
Pb
Kick, scream, stamp your feet and flap your arms.
If you don't, you'll get exactly what you deserve.
Alex Oren
Alex Oren
} is there a contact em addy for google?
Yes: groups-...@google.com.
Please be polite and constructive.
} i've used mydeja for a few years now and right now i agree bring back
} that format.
Their web page says:
Note to loyal Deja users:
Due to time and technical constraints, it is not feasible for Google
to maintain the interface and feature-set to which you are
accustomed. We have been working hard to make this beta service
available while we transition to a more full-featured offering. We
appreciate your understanding and patience as we add the features
you expect (including posting and better browsing).
Alex Oren
} Mike Warren (use...@mike-warren.com), in article
} <qc4i6.91$uV6....@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com> , wrote:
} >brew...@ecn.ab.ca ('') writes:
}
} >> they hav little coverage (which follows) [..]
}
} >They have one of the biggest indexes.
}
} It's full of raw data. I'll see how it compares in coverage,
} and if it's below MSN then I won't be happy.
See http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/sizes.html
Paul Bennett
<rlgi8tomuiqsd3in5...@4ax.com>, Alex Oren wrote...
>If they get enough *polite* requests they will take notice.
The only thing that'll really make 'em sit up and take notice is mass defection
to another supplier if the situation does not improve. Hits/day is the very
stuff of life for such sites.
Polite requests are a good way to start this process, however, and I
wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.
>Each one of us should write them an email and ask them to keep presence on
>the alt.fan.dejanews newsgroup. I did.
Good plan. I'll get something together in a similar vein.
---
Pb
Dan
last-minute, disorganized mess? This "beta" search pages just
comes off as if they decided to do this takeover approximately
3 minutes before deja pulled the plug. Anyone with any sense would
have planned for an N-day transition, at the very least keeping
the deja functionality alive for a few days, or at the very
least have given the usership *SOME* advanced notice. Nope.
Crash. Bang. Boom. Bullshit.
I've seen 3rd-world government coups more organized than this.
Not happy,
-Dan
Nick Theodorakis
>
>Is it just me, or does this whole transaction smack of a slipshod,
>last-minute, disorganized mess? This "beta" search pages just
>comes off as if they decided to do this takeover approximately
>3 minutes before deja pulled the plug.
Here is my guess:
<speculation>
They were interested in buying deja for some time, but perhaps the price was too
high. But they waited until deja hit some kind of catastrophic failure, then
swoooped in to pick up the pieces on the cheap. Perhaps the "plug had been
pulled" already, which is why they couldn't put up the posting and browsing
interface.
</speculation>
The question is: are they in this only for the archive, or do they want to
maintain a posting and browsing service as well? If the former, then it doesn't
really matter if they PO the deja users, because they have the archive, and it's
the only one around. But if they want to also maintain the posting and browsing
service, then deliberately PO-ing the users makes no sense at all, since they
are are forcing them to look at other newsreading services (like I am doing),
and if we are mad we are not likely to come back to them.
Mike Warren
> Waste is bad. A simple index contains a master list of all the words
> that occur. The words point to a list of addresses where those words
> occur.
A ludicrously simplistic approach.
> >They have one of the biggest indexes.
> It's full of raw data.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
> >Their ``enjin'' seems to do far, far better than anyone else's...
> Not on this count. hotbot is for flexibility -- booleans,
What good is a boolean search if it still turns up garbage?
> domain limits,
Google does this.
> phrase searches,
Google does this.
> wildcards.
Does it do real wildcards, or just ``*''?
> They're also in the top five regarding coverage.
Google has the most coverage.
Patrick Borer
Theodorakis<nicholas_t...@urmc.rochester.ed> wrote:
(...)
>The question is: are they in this only for the archive, or do they want to
>maintain a posting and browsing service as well?
from http://groups.google.com/ :
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
>> Waste is bad. A simple index contains a master list of all the words
>> that occur. The words point to a list of addresses where those words
>> occur.
>A ludicrously simplistic approach.
Sort it and it represents a considerable storage savings and speed
advantage. I suppose you know how they're compressed, or perhaps you can
put QuickSort, MergeSort, and RadixSort in order of speed. Both?
>> >They have one of the biggest indexes.
>> It's full of raw data.
>You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
That's what the "cache" is: raw data: plain to see.
> > >Their ``enjin'' seems to do far, far better than anyone else's...
> > Not on this count. hotbot is for flexibility -- booleans,
>What good is a boolean search if it still turns up garbage?
The internet is full of garbage. It's hard to screen from google,
because they ignore description tags. Instead they let you guess based
upon a kind of concordance built from matches to your search.
If you will cover more than 15% of the internet (and according to
my source, average coverage fell since 1997 from 33% and no enjin now
covers more than 16%) then hand screening will be completely impractical.
Even 15% is mind-boggling.
In the absence of description tags, booleans, especially with
brackets, are an excellent answer for screening garbage.
> Google has the most coverage.
I'll get back to you on that. According to my source, which is
admittedly old and inaccesible when I checked a couple days ago, google
covers less than MSN, which had about half the coverage of NorthernLight.
If I find a lot of difference between my source and
searchenginewatch then I'll work through some low-hit searches of my own
to analyze quality. The comparison between MSN and NorthernLight still
holds: MSN about 50%: Try searching for "mild death" and MSN turns up 22
hits, while AltaVista and hotbot hit the mid 40s.
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
<b4ii8t0vk5dp6hgca...@4ax.com> , wrote
regarding search engine coverage:
See searchenginewatch
Their method is almost useless. They measured user votes for a
site, which may include a lot of uninformed users voting for nude pictures
of Barney the purple dinosaur. They were honest enough to refute comments
from users indicating that google uses meta tags. I'm sticking to NUA
and wishing that I had a replicated study.
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
>> They're also in the top five regarding coverage.
>Google has the most coverage.
Source, please. I'm using NUA internet surveys, and according to
them, google sucks more than MSN, which covers about 50% of what the top
two enjinz cover. Unfortunately, NUA is down, and I know little of their
method other than it showed percentages of internet coverage declining,
perhaps due to uninformed users who think it's hard to stop an enjin from
listing your page, like the guy who wrote. Perhaps you'll trust our copy
of NUA stats at the bottom of this: http://ecn.ab.ca/main/wwwsrch.html
Mike Warren
> Mike Warren (use...@mike-warren.com), in article
> <tDfi6.1372$RU.4...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com> , wrote:
> >brew...@ecn.ab.ca ('') writes:
> >> Waste is bad. A simple index contains a master list of all the
> >> words that occur. The words point to a list of addresses where
> >> those words occur.
> >A ludicrously simplistic approach.
> Sort it and it represents a considerable storage savings and speed
> advantage.
Over what?
> I suppose you know how they're compressed, [..]
I have no idea how Google compresses their words. Do you?
> [..] or perhaps you can put QuickSort, MergeSort, and RadixSort in
> order of speed. Both?
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
> The internet is full of garbage. It's hard to screen from google,
> because they ignore description tags. Instead they let you guess
> based upon a kind of concordance built from matches to your search.
Google does boolean searches. You clearly have no idea what you're
talking about.
> Even 15% is mind-boggling.
Google covers far, far more than any other ``enjin''.
> > Google has the most coverage.
> I'll get back to you on that.
Someone else has already posts links for you.
> The comparison between MSN and NorthernLight still holds: MSN about
> 50%: Try searching for "mild death" and MSN turns up 22 hits, while
> AltaVista and hotbot hit the mid 40s.
What does this *possibly* show? (Google turns up 435,000, if that's
your comparison. ``mild OR death'' turns up 3,170,000.)
Mike Warren
> Mike Warren (use...@mike-warren.com), in article
> <tDfi6.1372$RU.4...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com> , wrote:
> >> They're also in the top five regarding coverage.
> >Google has the most coverage.
> Source, please.
Their own page, among others.
swiss
i typed in "mild death" in dogpile. 1301 results came back, of course
dogpile searches several other engines for you.
Jeremy
> perhaps due to uninformed users who think it's hard to stop an enjin from
Engine. E-N-G-I-N-E. Engine.
--
Jeremy | jer...@exit109.com
Pål Are Nordal
>
> I'll get back to you on that. According to my source, which is
> admittedly old and inaccesible when I checked a couple days ago, google
> covers less than MSN, which had about half the coverage of NorthernLight.
Google isn't all that old and has been growing constantly since it
start. If your "old" source tested Google during it's infancy it's no
wonder it came out with bad scores.
One thing is certain, Google is IMNSHO the best search engine out there.
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a_b...@bigfoot.com
brew...@ecn.ab.ca
>> phrase searches,
>Google does this.
BULLSHIT! I tried their phrase search with "mild death". I even
gave them the benefit of the doubt, assuming it was case sensitive:
"Mild Death". No hits, and the relevant pages wer in the index as you
can see from the simple search.
Mike Warren
> Mike Warren (use...@mike-warren.com), in article
> <tDfi6.1372$RU.4...@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com> , wrote:
> >brew...@ecn.ab.ca ('') writes:
> >> phrase searches,
> >Google does this.
> BULLSHIT! I tried their phrase search with "mild death". I even gave
> them the benefit of the doubt, assuming it was case sensitive:
It's not.
> "Mild Death". No hits, [..]
That's simply not true.
BarB
Is it possible you put "mild death" with quotes in the phrase search
box? That gives you a search for ""mild death"" with odd results.
I searched for "red hot chili peppers" with good results but I'm
wondering if Google will limit phrase searches as Deja did. A phrase
search with Deja was frequently limited to 102 results regardless of the
time span.
BarB
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Know Spam
> Source, please. I'm using NUA internet surveys, and according to
> them, google sucks more than MSN, which covers about 50% of what the top
> two enjinz cover. Unfortunately, NUA is down, and I know little of their
Who the hell is NUA?
All the data you need is here:
http://searchenginewatch.com/reports/index.html
Google is clearly biggest. (and best, if what you want to find is a
relevant page to what you are looking for)
-Ben
Alex
>is there a contact em addy for google?
Alex
Keith Doyle
Mike Warren <use...@mike-warren.com> wrote:
>
>> wildcards.
>
>Does it do real wildcards, or just ``*''?
I don't know the full extent of the Deja.com wildcarding, but I
routinely entered "*perl*" into the newsgroups box on Deja.com and
with Google I get no hits-- Google wildcarding is pretty dumb if
it can't even handle that...
--
Keith Doyle <http://www.mp3.com/carousel>
(to send me an E-letter, remove underbars in reply address)