Aro gTer (was: Re: Dzogchen in Wales)
Christopher John Fynn
news:r$JHxFAtz...@pema.demon.co.uk...
> Phillip Gardner writes
> >I am new to Tibetan Buddhism and am keen to join with others in the South
> >Wales area in the U.K. to practise Dzogchen as taught along the lines of
> >Sogyal Rinpoche or Lama Surya Das. These are two teachers i have read
books
> >by recently and am inspired. I know there are many schools of thought
within
> >the Tibetan traditions which makes it a bit confusing to a newcomer, but
any
> >advise would be helpfull.
> You won't find Surya Das students in S.Wales and I strongly advise you
> to steer clear of Sogyal. However, you will find:
> Aro gTer ...
Mary
Given your usual uncompromising attitude to charlatans, frauds and snake-oil
salesmen, I'm somewhat surprised to see you publicly suggesting "Aro gTer"
to someone who is new to Tibetan Buddhism without attaching a great big
CAVEAT EMPTOR.
As far as I can determine there is little evidence that "ARO gTÉR" and the
"Ngak'phang [sic] Tradition" is more than something dreamed up or imagined
by "Ngakpa Chogyam" himself.
In Tibetan "Aro" is an unusual name. The only Aro who is at all well known
in Tibetan religious history is Aro Yeshe Jungney (a ro ye shes 'byung gnas)
the teacher of rBa gom bSod rnams rGyal mtshan who was in turn the teacher
of the famous Kha rag sGom chung. This A-ro was so called because, as a
child, he was found by a nun laying like a corpse (ro) emitting the sound "A
A". She took care of him and called him "A-ro" ("corpse [saying] 'AA'" /
"corpse of AA"). This A-ro was the author of a text known as Aro's
Mahayana Yoga (a ro'i theg chen naljor) and of "Aro's Great System of
Guidance" (a ro'i khrid mo che don khor) which is also known as "The
Esoteric Instructions of the Great Perfection according to Aro" (rdzogs chen
a ro'i man ngag), "The Essential Spirituality of Aro" (a ro' thugs bcud) or
"The Seven Sessions of Aro" (a ro thun bdun). It is a system of the mental
class of Dzogchen (rdzogs chen sems sde) known as the tradition of Khams.
Aro Yeshe Jungney held both the Chinese and Indian traditions of the Mental
Class of Dzogchen during the seventh generation of their transmission.
Although Atisha himself praised the oral instructions of Aro Yeshe Jungney,
they were later attacked by many including Je Tsongkhapa's disciple
Keydrubje.
You might recall that a couple of years ago I asked one of Ngakpa Chogyam's
students if their "tradition" had anything to do with that of Aro Yeshe
Jungney and I was told that it didn't. Curiously since then
they have added something about Aro Yeshe Jungney to their web-site which
seems to be based on what I wrote at the time. This and a few similar things
give me the impression that they are making things up or filling in the gaps
as they go along.
I also asked where the Aro Ter and it's terton were prophesised and
authorised by Padmasambhava or Yeshe Tsogyal - since this is usually
considered to be one of the important ways of determining the authenticity
of a terton and terma - but I was given an answer to the effect that since
this is a "mind terma" there is no prophecy etc.
Somehow I wasn't surprised by that answer nor am I surprised that there are
no facts which might be easily checked in the History of the A-ro gTer
lineage as given at http://www.aroter.org/history/history_toc.htm. I'm
thinking about things like the full name of the terma, the title of the
texts, any references to this terma or tradition in other texts or
biographies etc; the names of places associated with "Jomo Chhi-'mčd
Pema", "Gomchenma Pema 'ö-Zér", " Rang-rig Togden",
"Khyungchen Aro Lingma", "'a-Shul Pema Legden", "Khalding Lingpa",
"Ngak'chang A-Kyong Dudül Dorje"
and the other characters associated with this lineage (no body else seems
to have heard of any of these figures).
Maybe I'm wrong or overly cynical, but to me this whole thing looks like the
product of a fertile imagination and might be rather good fun if it was only
supposed to be a humorous work of fiction or a parody about Tibetan yogis.
Asking people to take it seriously just seems to be taking advantage of and
reinforcing some of the Shangri-la fantasies many people have about Tibet.
- Chris
Tim Knutton
John Pettit
Tim Knutton wrote:
>
> How about this guy?
> http://www.khepa.com/
They've had a major face-lift at the site since I last saw it -- and
much needed. The first time I went there, I saw a picture of "Khepa" --
smeared with ashes, a huge potbelly, staring wildly into space. Sort of
a cross between Nityananda, Da Free John and a drenched campfire.
I loved this part:
> Sanctimonious authority is the rigormortis of lineage. Fawning disciples
> kissing ass are the maggots of lineage. Hope and fear are the dusty
> bleached bone remains of lineage. Always be careful about the quality of
> lineage!
Evidently the words of someone who didn't feel like kissing ass in order
to become a Guru.
John
Alex Wilding
Or there is this one:
http://www.celticbuddhism.org/
Maybe we should start a collection?
Alex W
Tim Knutton
Alex Wilding wrote:
Right! I've seen that one, what a hoot! Ever seen that advert in the
Shambhala Sun for the vibrating pendants? Made by another "western
terton"!
How about Karma blah-blah Rinpoche? Long Hair, goatee and red robes, i
can't remember his full name. Foundation for Dzogchen Studies or
something like that.
Tim Knutton
Alex Wilding
Tim Knutton wrote in message <3843FDE4...@unamax.com>...I addedTim again:
>Right! I've seen that one, what a hoot! Ever seen that advert in the
>Shambhala Sun for the vibrating pendants? Made by another "western
>terton"!
site is almost certainly a spoof. Slow of me, but I enjoyed the joke more
for having been taken in!
The funny thing about Khepa is that for all he talks about lineage, he never
actually seems to give a mention to any of his teachers! (Though I didn't
stay long at the site - maybe it is somewhere.) The mention of the
"Ngak'phang style" makes it look like an Aro gTer spin-off.
Alex W
Tim Knutton
> It was only when JP pointed it out to me that I realised that the Celtic
> site is almost certainly a spoof. Slow of me, but I enjoyed the joke more
> for having been taken in!
> The funny thing about Khepa is that for all he talks about lineage, he never
> actually seems to give a mention to any of his teachers! (Though I didn't
> stay long at the site - maybe it is somewhere.) The mention of the
> "Ngak'phang style" makes it look like an Aro gTer spin-off.
> Alex W
I've been watching Khepa's page for a while now, he used to claim not have any
human teachers. As the story goes, he was in a public library when Yeshe Tsogyal
apeared to him, bigger than life. He fell to his knees and then drank wisdom
nectar from her 'lotus'. This awoke memories of his past life as a wandering
yogi in Tibet and he then revealed his 'termas'. He also says that he sends his
students to other Dzogchen Masters in California such as Chagdud Rinpoche and
Lama Tharchin.This is more or less how i remember it. He doesn't have that stuff
posted on his site anymore. I'm going to look for the other guy's page i
mentioned, i'll keep you posted.
I never realized western tertons could be so much fun.
Tim Knutton
Mary Finnigan
>It was only when JP pointed it out to me that I realised that the Celtic
>site is almost certainly a spoof. Slow of me, but I enjoyed the joke more
>for having been taken in!
>The funny thing about Khepa is that for all he talks about lineage, he never
>actually seems to give a mention to any of his teachers! (Though I didn't
>stay long at the site - maybe it is somewhere.) The mention of the
>"Ngak'phang style" makes it look like an Aro gTer spin-off.
Aroter and yes, Khepa is associated. I gather that the connection is
friendly but not close.
Mary
Tim Knutton
> How about Karma blah-blah Rinpoche? Long Hair, goatee and red robes, i
> can't remember his full name. Foundation for Dzogchen Studies or
> something like that.
>
> Tim Knutton
Ok, here's the site for 'Lama Padma Karma Rinpoche'
http://pages.cthome.net/tibetanbuddhism/
It seems less ornate and exotic than it once was.
Tim Knutton
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
Tim Knutton wrote:
>
> I've been watching Khepa's page for a while now, he used to claim not have any
> human teachers. As the story goes, he was in a public library when Yeshe Tsogyal
> apeared to him, bigger than life. He fell to his knees and then drank wisdom
> nectar from her 'lotus'. This awoke memories of his past life as a wandering
> yogi in Tibet and he then revealed his 'termas'. He also says that he sends his
> students to other Dzogchen Masters in California such as Chagdud Rinpoche and
> Lama Tharchin.This is more or less how i remember it. He doesn't have that stuff
> posted on his site anymore. I'm going to look for the other guy's page i
> mentioned, i'll keep you posted.
> I never realized western tertons could be so much fun.
Remind me of Lu Shen Yen of True Buddha School.
Care to give me a list of such persons whose lineage's existence seems
to be very doubtful?
--
Yours in Dharma,
Henry Chia
(Ngawang Geleg)
email: ge...@pacific.net.sg
URL: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/4886/index.htm
<-: Ngawang Geleg's Buddhist Home Page :->
URL: http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/geleg/cults.htm
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Steven Lightfoot
wrote:
I don't know the web address but there was, for a day at least, a
suspecious Dorji Porji who claims to have been a practicing Tibetan
Buddhist for 20 years who think exactly like DT trying to convince
others of his authenticity.
As a matter of fact, on a number of occassions DT himself has claimed
that he has been practicing Insight Meditation and Buddhist meditation
for decades. I think he should go on the *falsie* list as well.
>
Christopher John Fynn
Alex Wilding <wil...@eircom.net> wrote
in message news:820f9d$edn$1...@scotty.tinet.ie...
> Or there is this one:
> http://www.celticbuddhism.org/
Wow - you need sunglasses to look at this guys' robes.