Great ride today but what's with other cyclists?
Mike Jacoubowsky
some time, and got out this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On
the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of the
road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other
cyclists passing by.
Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need anything?
(True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
know that for sure without asking).
9 times out of 10, when you pass somebody who's stopped at the side of the
road and doing something with their bike (or just looking a bit out of
place), they're OK. But there's always that chance that somebody might have
discovered that their spare tube doesn't hold air, or their pump isn't
working, or maybe they can't figure out how to get the wheel back in and
knocked out a brake shoe.
Of course, lots of people won't say they need help even when they do,
especially guys, so when I pass somebody at the side of the road, I don't
ask if they "need help" but instead "Do you have what you need?" It's truly
amazing how many more people will say something like "Yeah, if you've got a
spare tube that would be great" if you ask them if they need anything... but
asking them if they need help and they'll almost always say no.
It doesn't hurt to look after other cyclists on the road. Someday you just
might need help yourself.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Ken
news:YLEVb.22885$Tv6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com:
> in some time, and got out this morning with a couple guys from the shop.
> On the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of
> the road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
> mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other
> cyclists passing by.
I think if 3 guys look like they know what they're doing, passing cyclists
will expect that at least one of them is competent. One guy working by
himself will probably get "are you OK" from half the passing cyclists. One
guy who looks confused or puts his hand out to ask someone for help will
probably get help pretty quickly. At least in California.
Now, why would 3 bike shop guys need a full 15 minutes to fix a flat?
Mike Jacoubowsky
At that point it was only two of us (three of us would probably take
longer!) and, as luck would have it, the first tube we installed blew out
its valve core (a very weird thing to happen to a presta-valve tube!).
> I think if 3 guys look like they know what they're doing, passing cyclists
> will expect that at least one of them is competent.
Not always true! I've stopped to help groups of guys who might otherwise
look like they've got things under control, and it turns out they really do
need a tube because they can't get a patch to hold.
> One guy working by himself will probably get "are you OK" from half the
passing cyclists. One
> guy who looks confused or puts his hand out to ask someone for help will
> probably get help pretty quickly. At least in California.
You'd think that, wouldn't you? But if you know our website you know I take
a *lot* of pictures, and for a couple minutes I was across the street taking
some photos of Todd changing his tire, out of sight of the cyclists coming
up the hill.
I have little doubt that someone asking for help would find it, but what's
so tough about asking people if they've got what they need? My experiences
have been that people will go a long way to fake that they know how to take
care of something when others come by, but are (sometimes) greatly relieved
when you stop and offer them a tube or a cell phone to call home for a ride
or whatever.
PS: Regarding how long it takes to fix a flat, I'd rather spend a bit more
time and fix something correctly, once, than have further problems down the
road because I didn't notice a rimstrip that was out of place, or a small
gash in the tire, or a tiny little glass shard that's just barely visible.
Peter
In general I agree. OTOH, a couple weeks ago I had the misfortune of
riding through a construction zone where a pothole must have knocked my
toolkit (incl. tubes & patch kit) out of its waterbottle cage. I didn't
notice it missing until too late and later in the ride I got a flat (Murphy
strikes again). So for six miles I slowly rode home along a bike path with
a totally flat rear tire towing my boat trailer (at least its wheels were
ok). Saw quite a few cyclists but no comments or offers to help.
>
> Now, why would 3 bike shop guys need a full 15 minutes to fix a flat?
Because they were all carrying the "fun mini-pumps" which seem to be the
only kind available in many bike shops anymore. :)
Benjamin Weiner
> First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in
> some time, and got out this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On
> the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of the
> road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
> mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other
> cyclists passing by.
> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
> whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need anything?
> (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
> know that for sure without asking).
So what was Saturday, chopped liver?
Where were you? My guess is that out in the middle of nowhere,
people are more likely to stop. IME the people I ride with
will usually ask - Hmm, maybe people who are used to riding in
groups are _more_ likely to know the convention of stopping to
ask. Last time I was stopped with a flat someone asked. And
last Sunday after 40 miles in cold and rain, I tacoed a wheel
catastrophically on RR tracks and a passer-by gave me a lift
10 miles back to town in his pickup. (I was with several people,
but none of us were equipped to solve the problem.)
Being a city boy originally, I may be a little naive about this,
but I think people who live farther out in farm country and the like
are aware of the isolation and danger of getting stranded, and
more likely to help out. Of course, this does not apply to
_everybody_ that lives in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
Per Löwdin
> whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need
anything?
You probably looked so utterly competent that other bikers thought there was
no need to stop.
We were riding around Colorado last year and when we had any mechanical
failures we invariably go offers of assistance. A flat tire north of Boulder
immediately made other bikers stop to check if we were doing OK. Heading
towards Coal Bank Pass from Durango we had problems with a rear deraileur,
was sligthly off, a gentleman on a road bike stopped, adjusted it perfectly
and gave us a useful lecture on how to fine tune rear deraileurs.
Of course American paranoia can also be a factor, remember trying to ask a
female motorist for the right way at a cross roads, she had one look at us,
made a terrified face, and blow away without stopping. And, the other way
around, near Loma, my wife hit a steel rod, one of those with a reflector,
that was badly placed on the shoulder of the road, a truck stopped, she was
bleeding and needed some stitches. The guy in the truck insisted that she´d
be taken to the hospital but could only fit her and one bike into the truck.
It was full of tools and things. When we hesitated he said "I am not a
serial killer".
She went with him and I biked after, he was of course perfectly ok, really
nice bloke, delivered her to the hospital in Fruita and was just about to go
looking for me when I turned up there rather out of breath.
Kenny Lee
> First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in
> some time, and got out this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On
> the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of the
> road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
> mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so,
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
I have one of those Topeak mini-pumps and I can get a tire up to 80psi
in about 3 minutes. What I do is lay the wheel flat on the ground and
use my weight on the down strokes. If I were to use the mini-pump while
the wheel is on the bike it would take me a long time if ever to get it
up to 80psi.
By the way I would stop just out of curiosity and probably to show off
my mini-pump power pumpin form.
Kenny Lee
David Kerber
mik...@ix.netcom.com says...
> First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in
> some time, and got out this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On
> the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of the
> road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
> mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other
> cyclists passing by.
>
> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
> whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need anything?
> (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
> know that for sure without asking).
With three of you, they probably assumed that at least one of you, and
maybe two, had stopped to help the third, and therefore didn't bother.
....
--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!
REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
Terry Morse
> But if you know our website you know I take
> a *lot* of pictures, and for a couple minutes I was across the street taking
> some photos of Todd changing his tire, out of sight of the cyclists coming
> up the hill.
That's why nobody asked if Todd needed something, he was out of
sight!
Grammar humor aside, nobody asking if Todd needed anything is pretty
weird for the local roads. When I'm stopped to fix a flat, I usually
get at least two or three "got everything you need" questions. Maybe
it was just a weird Sunday crowd.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
David L. Johnson
>> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird.
Yeah, especially with the West coast supposedly so much friendlier than
the East. Can't remember this happening here. I get bent out of shape
when cyclists don't wave as we pass by -- usually they do. I always ask
whether a single rider, or a small group, by the side of the road has what
they need. I think most riders do, here.
> And last Sunday after 40 miles in cold and rain, I
> tacoed a wheel catastrophically on RR tracks and a passer-by gave me a
> lift 10 miles back to town in his pickup. (I was with several people,
> but none of us were equipped to solve the problem.)
How could a rider be equipped to solve that problem? Some tacos can be
almost miraculously repaired by pressing on the high sides of the taco
while the wheel is on one side on the road. But that is only luck; if it
doesn't work, you need someone with a spare wheel. Not too many riders
carry spare wheels.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or
_`\(,_ | that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
(_)/ (_) | unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public. --Theodore Roosevelt
Chuck Anderson
For rear wheels, I put the wheel back on (I almost said "mount it," ....
but the wise arses here ...). I lean the bike against something, align
the valve with the chainstay, grab it and the pump with my left hand
(avoids breaking the presta valve), and then use my right hand to pump
with additional force supplied by my right leg (knee against my right
hand.) I can pump like that non-stop until I get to pressure.
If you align the valve with the chainstay and grab it and the pump with
one hand, the rest will come natural.
--
*****************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO
http://www.CycleTourist.com
Integrity is obvious.
The lack of it is common.
*****************************
Rick Warner
> First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in
> some time,
Debatable. I think Jan 31st was great. Both days this weekend were fine,
but no better than the previous Saturday :)
> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
> whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need anything?
Not sure. Where was this at? I always ask, even stopping to check on a guy
sitting on the guard-rail halfway down the east side of 84 yesterday.
Curious that no one asked if you guys needed help; I always ask, and it is
returned in kind whenever I have problems. Even had a woman in an older
SUV stop to check on me when I had a flat on Junipero Serra at East Campus
about 10 days ago; said she did so because her father was a cyclist. Maybe
time for another of your mini-rants, like the one a couple of years ago about
cyclists acknowledging one another on the road.
- rick
Tom Keats
"Per Löwdin" <Perl...@hotmail.com> writes:
> Of course American paranoia can also be a factor, remember trying to ask a
> female motorist for the right way at a cross roads, she had one look at us,
> made a terrified face, and blow away without stopping.
I get that sometimes, too. Especially when I've put off
shaving for a few days :-)
cheers,
Tom
--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
Chuck Anderson
>In article <G3HVb.48462$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net>,
> "Per Löwdin" <Perl...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> Of course American paranoia can also be a factor, remember trying to ask a
>> female motorist for the right way at a cross roads, she had one look at us,
>> made a terrified face, and blow away without stopping.
>
>I get that sometimes, too. Especially when I've put off
>shaving for a few days :-)
>
Or a couple of days on the road without showering.
Rick Onanian
<mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of the
>road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
>mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other
>cyclists passing by.
>
>Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
Wow! That hasn't been my experience; not only do bicyclists stop to
assist, but people in cars, and even nearby residents came out to
help me, all in one flat tire incident.
>whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need anything?
>(True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
>know that for sure without asking).
Maybe you looked really well prepared...
>ask if they "need help" but instead "Do you have what you need?" It's truly
Or, slightly less awkward, "Need anything?" or "All set?".
>It doesn't hurt to look after other cyclists on the road. Someday you just
>might need help yourself.
This need not only apply to bicycling. The same principle works well
elsewhere. After applying this attitude at all times, I've noticed a
marked increase of receiving the same. Karma may well exist.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
<mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>longer!) and, as luck would have it, the first tube we installed blew out
>its valve core (a very weird thing to happen to a presta-valve tube!).
My experience has been that presta valves blow out easily. Of all
the beating I've given schrader tubes, never has a schrader valve
failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.
I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's presta
valve broke; he replaced the tube, whose valve was broken before he
installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose valve
broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't
have a hose); then, the last presta tube anybody had, extremely
carefully installed, did the trick.
Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a
curb in a semi-emergency; the tube was fine, but the presta valve
blew right out.
Recently, I went to unscrew a presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it
right out; and it didn't want to screw back in properly...
Despite all that, I kinda like presta, but I can't figure out
why...;)
>I have little doubt that someone asking for help would find it, but what's
>so tough about asking people if they've got what they need? My experiences
>have been that people will go a long way to fake that they know how to take
>care of something when others come by, but are (sometimes) greatly relieved
>when you stop and offer them a tube or a cell phone to call home for a ride
>or whatever.
While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should
certainly not be the least bit afraid to ask. If they are, then
they're their own problem.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
<david....@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>Not too many riders carry spare wheels.
We have kevlar tire beads and belts, and kevlar spokes; when are we
going to get kevlar rims? <G>
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
<Perl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The guy in the truck insisted that she´d
>be taken to the hospital but could only fit her and one bike into the truck.
>It was full of tools and things. When we hesitated he said "I am not a
>serial killer".
Brave guy. It may be urban legend, or may be something that actually
happens, but the story goes that a man stops to help a woman, who he
drives somewhere; she tears her shirt and claims that he assaulted
or raped her; and she gets a big lawsuit settlement. I think of that
sort of thing when I stop to help people, but I still stop to help.
--
Rick Onanian
len
"Rick Onanian" < wrote in message >
> My experience has been that presta valves blow out easily. Of all
> the beating I've given schrader tubes, never has a schrader valve
> failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.
>
> I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's presta
> valve broke; he replaced the tube, whose valve was broken before he
> installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose valve
> broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't
> have a hose); then, the last presta tube anybody had, extremely
> carefully installed, did the trick.
>
> Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a
> curb in a semi-emergency; the tube was fine, but the presta valve
> blew right out.
>
> Recently, I went to unscrew a presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it
> right out; and it didn't want to screw back in properly...
Rick, I agree with you about presta valves, I think they are weak. But,
with the narrow rims, you have got to use a narrow stem. So, it has to be a
narrower schrader valve, which they do not yet make. Yet, I know that it can
be done.
Years ago , when I started using these newsgoups, I posted this opinion,
in a similar discussion. Brandt was in the thread, and he responded in his,
what I have found to be his usual acerbic tone. That, I was an idiot, for
this and that reason.
As a mechanic of many years, I have had to use schrader valves in many
applications, and I know they work for many , and varied applications.
> Despite all that, I kinda like presta, but I can't figure out
> why...;)
I am sorry, but I think it is called Purism. A form of
nostalgia/snobbery. ;<) personaly I think it is a more of an issue, than
threadless headsets
As far as help from others, I always carry; a couple of tubes, a patch
kit, frame pump, and a spare tire. Damn, I hate to walk
All the best, Len
Tim McNamara
> Of course American paranoia can also be a factor,
American paranoia? What American paranoia? Who's saying that
Americans are paranoid? What's paranoid about realizing that
everyone _is_ out to get you?
Mark Hickey
>Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
>whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need anything?
>(True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
>know that for sure without asking).
You were all probably absorbed in the task at hand. Y'see, if you
really NEEDED something, you'd cast your gaze at the approaching
cyclists, exhibiting your best imploring expression. You'd at least
make eye contact.
FWIW, I flatted today as well, and no one stopped to help me - but I
just look so dang competent.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
Don
absorbed they are and most won't even wave at you if you don't look
'cool'.... cyclists are the most egocentric unfriendly group of people i've
ever met..
one would think they would encourage all the novices as the more people
involved, the more people are going to press for trails, etc.. but it just
aint so.... the better equipment they have, the more snobby they become..
cheers
don
"Mark Hickey" <ma...@habcycles.com> wrote in message
news:hieg20hu7kjo91ki8...@4ax.com...
Ryan Cousineau
"len" <cl...@nospramcox.net> wrote:
> "Rick Onanian" < wrote in message >
> > My experience has been that presta valves blow out easily. Of all
> > the beating I've given schrader tubes, never has a schrader valve
> > failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.
> >
> > I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's presta
> > valve broke; he replaced the tube, whose valve was broken before he
> > installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose valve
> > broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't
> > have a hose); then, the last presta tube anybody had, extremely
> > carefully installed, did the trick.
> >
> > Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a
> > curb in a semi-emergency; the tube was fine, but the presta valve
> > blew right out.
> >
> > Recently, I went to unscrew a presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it
> > right out; and it didn't want to screw back in properly...
>
> Rick, I agree with you about presta valves, I think they are weak. But,
> with the narrow rims, you have got to use a narrow stem. So, it has to be a
> narrower schrader valve, which they do not yet make. Yet, I know that it can
> be done.
I assume you're suggesting a completely new (and incompatible) valve
specification: Schrader valves have a wider mouth, and cannot fit
through a rim hole narrower than their mouth. But a narrower Schrader
spec would also be more fragile...
> Years ago , when I started using these newsgoups, I posted this opinion,
> in a similar discussion. Brandt was in the thread, and he responded in his,
> what I have found to be his usual acerbic tone. That, I was an idiot, for
> this and that reason.
> As a mechanic of many years, I have had to use schrader valves in many
> applications, and I know they work for many , and varied applications.
JB has a very balanced look at both valve types in the FAQ:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.29.html
Precis: Presta offers easier inflation and makes narrow rims stronger.
Schrader is tougher.
What I've noticed about Presta valves is that they often have long
bodies, the better to deal with deep-section aero rims. In non-aero
rims, this is just more leverage with which to mess up the valve in some
way.
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
Rick Onanian
wrote:
> As far as help from others, I always carry; a couple of tubes, a patch
>kit, frame pump, and a spare tire. Damn, I hate to walk
Only one frame pump? Mine broke the other day, and I sure was glad I
had a CO2 inflator with two cartridges. The pump was purported to be
good quality, a claim made by my trusted LBS guy who's rarely (if
ever) wrong about such claims.
--
Rick Onanian
Rick Onanian
Get OUT OF MY HEAD, man! You've got some kind of mind-reading
device, haven't you? I know what you're up to! You'll never succeed!
They'll get you long before they get me...
--
Rick Onanian
margol...@bellsouth.net
year. I was only prepared with 2 tube spares. Not too many have had that
much bad luck in a single ride! Anyway, I had so many people stop to offer
me help. I also needed 2 new tubes.Both people who had offered to help me
not only gave me their spare tube, but even refused my money to pay for the
tubes.
I now ride with Tufo Hi Carbon Clincher Tires at 175 PSI and I have never
had a flat tire with these tires and they do not lose air.
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:YLEVb.22885$Tv6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
Dane Jackson
Are you tired of the government reading your mind? Are you frustrated by
the orbital mind control lasers being used to force you to buy fastfood?
Do you need *quality* psychotronic protection for your cranium?
Rick, I feel you could benefit from this very important technology:
--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today --
I think he's from the CIA.
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>Do you need *quality* psychotronic protection for your cranium?
Argh! That website is scanning my brain! They offer a book which is
sure to have microscopic psychotronic circuitry integrated into it's
very paper...
--
Rick Onanian
jhuskey
whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need
anything? (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody
riding past can know that for sure without asking).
I recall having two flats where other cyclists rode past. Both times
they slowed or stopped and asked if I needed assistance. No one in a car
has ever offered help. They definitely have an"I must be first in line
and must get there fast agenda" I believe most cyclist in this area area
very courteous Maybe I will change my mind tommrow but so far so good.
]
--
Steve Juniper
looks like the person doesn't need it I might just pass a greeting.
Sometimes you can really tell when someone looks helpless. I think that is
easily recognizeable and that person would get automatic offers from most
any experience biker who passes.
The first time I tried to use my telescoping pump it fell apart. I now
have a Sigma Sport 'Lambda Jet Digital' which I really like. The digital
gage is handy, but the footrest makes pumping sooo much easier! I also
routinely carry two tubes, patch kit and spare tire even on local rides, and
have been known to use it all.
When touring with wheels using nonstandard spokes it's important to
carry couple of extra spokes (easily taped to frame). Touring in France
another rider broke two nonstandard spokes and wound up having to buy a
cheap wheel and carry his fancy one...
Steve Juniper
"Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere."
"Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:r5og205hopkvagfud...@4ax.com...
S. Anderson
news:YLEVb.22885$Tv6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need
anything?
> (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
> know that for sure without asking).
Maybe they just thought you looked like a jack-ass?!?! ;-)
Tongue firmly in cheek,
Scott..
Kaputnik
[big snip]
> It doesn't hurt to look after other cyclists on the road. Someday you just
> might need help yourself.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Well, I do stop and ask. Last time I stopped and fixed someone else's
flat, it was a group of four cyclists standing around wondering what
to do. One of them had a flat, but none of them had brought pump,
tubes, or patches. I patched the guy's tire for him, in the mean
time, his friends took off. He told me his wife usually carried the
repair kit, but she wasn't riding with them that day.
The only times I remember anyone asking if I needed help, it's
actually been motorists. Really.
bb...@nosoperamail.com
<david....@lehigh.edu> wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:58:51 -0700, Benjamin Weiner wrote:
>
>>> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird.
>
>Yeah, especially with the West coast supposedly so much friendlier than
>the East. Can't remember this happening here. I get bent out of shape
>when cyclists don't wave as we pass by -- usually they do. I always ask
>whether a single rider, or a small group, by the side of the road has what
>they need. I think most riders do, here.
>
>> And last Sunday after 40 miles in cold and rain, I
>> tacoed a wheel catastrophically on RR tracks and a passer-by gave me a
>> lift 10 miles back to town in his pickup. (I was with several people,
>> but none of us were equipped to solve the problem.)
>
>How could a rider be equipped to solve that problem? Some tacos can be
>almost miraculously repaired by pressing on the high sides of the taco
>while the wheel is on one side on the road. But that is only luck; if it
>doesn't work, you need someone with a spare wheel. Not too many riders
>carry spare wheels.
----------------------
At least some tacoed wheels can be quickly straightened enough to ride
home, provided one has a spoke wrench. (Hard taco vs soft taco.)
A fellow rider might offer the spoke wrench.
It happened to me after overtensioning a wheel and going for a ride.
The wheel tacoed after a few miles, tire lost the bead, tube blew. A
spare tube, a spoke wrench and a half-hour I was back in the saddle
again.
A spoke wrench is handy to carry, or borrow if you have to. A broken
driveside spoke on a 36h wheel, for example, can be comensated quite
well by adjusting adjacent spokes to survive many miles to replacement
if you have to. Ain't pretty but one can get along.
Bruce Ball
bb...@nosoperamail.com
-------------------
My favorite method, provided a tree is handy, is to stand up with pump
head nestled against protruding bark, and to lean in with the pumping,
using the upper body mass particularly for those last 10psi.
bball, colo spgs
Rick Warner
> >>
> >>By the way I would stop just out of curiosity and probably to show off
> >>my mini-pump power pumpin form.
> >>
> >>
> >For rear wheels, I put the wheel back on (I almost said "mount it," ....
> >but the wise arses here ...). I lean the bike against something, align
> >the valve with the chainstay, grab it and the pump with my left hand
> >(avoids breaking the presta valve), and then use my right hand to pump
> >with additional force supplied by my right leg (knee against my right
> >hand.) I can pump like that non-stop until I get to pressure.
> >
> >If you align the valve with the chainstay and grab it and the pump with
> >one hand, the rest will come natural.
>
> -------------------
>
> My favorite method, provided a tree is handy, is to stand up with pump
> head nestled against protruding bark, and to lean in with the pumping,
> using the upper body mass particularly for those last 10psi.
>
> bball, colo spgs
My method is to eschew the pumps that cannot develop high pressure without
contortions. My current fave is the Topeak Road Morph (love the pump, hate
the mount); has a tiny foot that flips down, and a hose that pulls out, so
I do not have to develop odd bracing strategies. And it goes to 120psi+ without
much effort. On the bike where I have to go with a smaller pump due to
lack of mounting space, I use the mini just to get things started and blast
with CO2 to top it off.
- rick
Nicholas
> My current fave is the Topeak Road Morph (love the pump, hate
> the mount); has a tiny foot that flips down, and a hose that pulls out, so
> I do not have to develop odd bracing strategies. And it goes to 120psi+
> without much effort.
[...]
I agree with you on the Topeak Road Morph. I tossed the original
mount, and substituted a Twofish Bikeblock. Perfect!
http://www.twofishunlimited.com/bike.html
Nicholas Grieco
Benjamin Weiner
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:05:01 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
> <david....@lehigh.edu> wrote:
> >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 23:58:51 -0700, Benjamin Weiner wrote:
> >> And last Sunday after 40 miles in cold and rain, I
> >> tacoed a wheel catastrophically on RR tracks and a passer-by gave me a
> >> lift 10 miles back to town in his pickup. (I was with several people,
> >> but none of us were equipped to solve the problem.)
> >
> >How could a rider be equipped to solve that problem? Some tacos can be
> >almost miraculously repaired by pressing on the high sides of the taco
> >while the wheel is on one side on the road. But that is only luck; if it
> >doesn't work, you need someone with a spare wheel. Not too many riders
> >carry spare wheels.
> At least some tacoed wheels can be quickly straightened enough to ride
> home, provided one has a spoke wrench. (Hard taco vs soft taco.)
> A fellow rider might offer the spoke wrench.
In this case, I actually had a spoke wrench - well, a Ritchey
multi-tool with a spoke wrench notch. Ironically, we had used the
spoke wrench earlier in the ride to true up somebody else's wheel. I
didn't think right away of repairing the taco (though I have done that
before) but in any case, this one is really bad. I haven't been able
to fix it yet even in my nice dry house after loosening all the spokes
two turns, let alone by the side of the road on a cold wet day.
> It happened to me after overtensioning a wheel and going for a ride.
> The wheel tacoed after a few miles, tire lost the bead, tube blew. A
> spare tube, a spoke wrench and a half-hour I was back in the saddle
> again.
> A spoke wrench is handy to carry, or borrow if you have to. A broken
> driveside spoke on a 36h wheel, for example, can be comensated quite
> well by adjusting adjacent spokes to survive many miles to replacement
> if you have to. Ain't pretty but one can get along.
I agree. I carry this goofy little Ritchey CPR-5 mini-tool which
has a spoke wrench slot, a chain tool and 8/9/10mm wrenches;
some loose allen keys; and a mini screwdriver. The CPR-5 chain tool
is not very good because it has no loosening shelf, but it is for
emergencies. You can improvise many tools or borrow from some
passerby (unless you're in the woods) but improvising a chain tool
is a royal pain. The 8/9/10mm wrenches don't give much leverage but
are useful, especially on older bikes, canti brake hangers, etc.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> My experience has been that Presta valves blow out easily. Of all
> the beating I've given Schrader tubes, never has a Schrader valve
> failed me, nor have I seen or even heard of one.
> I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's Presta
> valve broke; he replaced the tube, whose valve was broken before he
> installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose valve
> broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't
> have a hose); then, the last Presta tube anybody had, extremely
> carefully installed, did the trick.
The problem here is twofold. Presta valves in order to be pumped
easily with an old style frame fit pump (like a Silca Impero) must
have no return spring as the Schrader does so the valve is conical, a
shape that when close under pressure, even without tightly screwing
the retaining nut, will stick firmly. If the valve is not manually or
otherwise depressed before pumping, it will not open even to 200psi
pressure.
The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as a
Schrader due to its smaller diameter and therefore, cannot be safely
pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot be put
against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into the other.
With the pump handle in one hand and the pump head (on the valve) in
the other, pumping reaction force goes into the hands, not the stem
that is unable to withstand that force.
> Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a
> curb in a semi-emergency; the tube was fine, but the Presta valve
> blew right out.
I don't understand what contacted the valve stem. Can you clarify?
What broke and how was this related to the curb?
> Recently, I went to unscrew a Presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it
> right out; and it didn't want to screw back in properly...
Removable Presta cores are not all that common in most brands but they
are detectable because the coarse cap threads have two flats for
tightening the core and loosening it. In that respect they are
identical in function to Schrader valves that also leak if not screwed
in firmly, the difference being that for the Schrader a special wrench
is required, one that comes on the tip of some old metal valve caps.
> Despite all that, I kinda like Presta, but I can't figure out
> why...;)
They pump more easily with a simple pump. Unfortunately the 7/8"
diameter piston and 16" long cylinder pumps are gone from the scene
because too many riders complained of insufficient strength to pump a
tire to 90+ psi. Those pumps were lighter and faster than any we can
buy today, mainly because racers in the days of yore had to pump their
own tires at times in races. With no more tubulars and spares, that
went out the door. There were stages in the classics that allowed no
mechanical support due to narrow mountain roads.
> While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should
> certainly not be the least bit afraid to ask. If they are, then
> they're their own problem.
I see it the other way. If you need help, ask for it. I find the
interrogation I occasionally get while sand papering a tube... "Do you
have a spare tube? Do you need a patch? Do you have a pump? Do you
need help?... to which the questioner demands answers as though
wanting to go through a newly learned sequence and to make use of the
knowledge just acquired at the bicycle shop with the bicycle. Some
people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after the
first question seems not to be enough.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>Rick Onanian writes:
>> I was once on a ride in the woods with a group, and one guy's Presta
>> valve broke; he replaced the tube, whose valve was broken before he
>> installed it; then he bummed a tube off another guy, whose valve
>> broke while pumping (he didn't pump smoothly, and the pump didn't
>> have a hose); then, the last Presta tube anybody had, extremely
>> carefully installed, did the trick.
Note: I don't know why the original tube or the first replacement
had bad valves.
>the retaining nut, will stick firmly. If the valve is not manually or
>otherwise depressed before pumping, it will not open even to 200psi
>pressure.
This is good to know; nobody has ever told me this before.
>The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as a
>Schrader due to its smaller diameter and therefore, cannot be safely
>pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot be put
>against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into the other.
Yup, this is what broke the second tube.
>With the pump handle in one hand and the pump head (on the valve) in
>the other, pumping reaction force goes into the hands, not the stem
>that is unable to withstand that force.
Even while doing this, it can be hard to keep it still and steady.
It helps to remove the wheel completely from the bike, so that you
can hold it in whatever position is most comfortable for you to get
this proper method. However, when excessively tired, or hot, or on a
dangerous/scary road, or whatever, one can be pretty unsteady. Then,
schrader's robustness would be preferred over presta's delicateness.
>> Another time, I was on my road bike, and ungracefully half-hopped a
>> curb in a semi-emergency; the tube was fine, but the Presta valve
>> blew right out.
>
>I don't understand what contacted the valve stem. Can you clarify?
>What broke and how was this related to the curb?
I wish I had investigated it. I'll see if I still have the tube
(doubtful, since it didn't seem at all repairable). I really can't
imagine why a curb would have done it, but it was fine before the
curb, and flat after.
I don't think anything contacted the valve stem, unless the curb
itself magically pushed through the tube and rim walls to reach the
bottom of the stem (without damaging the rim). It may have been a
weak stem, possibly fatigued from rough handling (although I never
used a frame pump on it); I can only provide conjecture.
When I went to fix it, I put some CO2 in it to find the leak, and it
blasted right out the valve. I tried fooling around with the valve,
screwing and unscrewing it's core and such, and IIRC, it was very
loose no matter what I did.
I've got to dig for a package from a cheap pump that broke last
week, while I'm digging I'll see if the tube makes an appearance.
The pump, I know, broke because it was an inferior quality pump, and
I was using it in cold, wet weather. When I went to the LBS where I
bought it, I was told that they don't sell that pump anymore for
that reason...so no mystery on that one. :/
>> Recently, I went to unscrew a Presta to inflate it, and unscrewed it
>> right out; and it didn't want to screw back in properly...
>
>Removable Presta cores are not all that common in most brands but they
>are detectable because the coarse cap threads have two flats for
>tightening the core and loosening it. In that respect they are
Err...I mean, no cap on it, I unscrewed the core too much, and it
wouldn't go back together. I guess I have to start keeping better
track of this stuff, this stuff just never concerned me much...I
just try to bear in mind that presta valves are, IME, delicate.
>identical in function to Schrader valves that also leak if not screwed
>in firmly, the difference being that for the Schrader a special wrench
>is required, one that comes on the tip of some old metal valve caps.
You and David Kerber have mentioned schrader valves that can be
screwed and unscrewed, but I don't think I've ever _seen_ such a
thing.
Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle. I just looked in a
schrader valve, and sure enough, it appears there's a mechanism by
which you could stick an appropriate tool in there and do stuff.
With a presta valve, you always screw and unscrew it. I've _never_
heard of anybody actually screwing and unscrewing a schrader's
innards like that.
>> While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should
>people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after the
>first question seems not to be enough.
Maybe "Thanks, I've got everything I need" will work.
--
Rick Onanian
Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles
> interrogation I occasionally get while sand papering a tube... "Do you
> have a spare tube? Do you need a patch? Do you have a pump? Do you
> need help?... to which the questioner demands answers as though
> wanting to go through a newly learned sequence and to make use of the
> knowledge just acquired at the bicycle shop with the bicycle. Some
> people cannot see when they are not needed.
The "Some people cannot see when they are not needed" bit puts quite a
burden on the person asking if someone needs help. And it begs the
question, when you reply to a given post, do you consider first whether it
will be welcome or not?
Asking someone who may (or may not) need help requires nothing more than a
three-word response (as in "No, I'm fine"). If one were attempting to be
civil, you could add two words and reply "No, I'm fine, but thanks!" The
inherent danger in doing so is that it might encourage civility and/or
somehow delay the normal progression of the universe in some terrible
fashion.
--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:5zhXb.1310$_3.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> Recently, I went to unscrew a Presta to inflate it, and unscrewed
>>> it right out; and it didn't want to screw back in properly...
>> Removable Presta cores are not all that common in most brands but
>> they are detectable because the coarse cap threads have two flats
>> for tightening the core and loosening it. In that respect they are
> Err...I mean, no cap on it, I unscrewed the core too much, and it
> wouldn't go back together. I guess I have to start keeping better
> track of this stuff, this stuff just never concerned me much...I
> just try to bear in mind that Presta valves are, IME, delicate.
>> identical in function to Schrader valves that also leak if not
>> screwed in firmly, the difference being that for the Schrader a
>> special wrench is required, one that comes on the tip of some old
>> metal valve caps.
> You and David Kerber have mentioned Schrader valves that can be
> screwed and unscrewed, but I don't think I've ever _seen_ such a
> thing.
All Schrader valve cores are removable. You can buy them at auto
parts stores. Next time you pass a auto tire shop, see if they have
the tool handy. Tires on cars are always mounted without valve cores
installed so that tires can be rapidly inflated and deflated. The
last thing is to install the valve cores and inflate to user pressure.
> Well I'll be a monkey's bare-assed uncle. I just looked in a
> Schrader valve, and sure enough, it appears there's a mechanism by
> which you could stick an appropriate tool in there and do stuff.
You'll notice the stem has internal threads as well. That's the clue.
> With a Presta valve, you always screw and unscrew it. I've _never_
> heard of anybody actually screwing and unscrewing a Schrader's
> innards like that.
The Presta, not having a closure spring, relies on a conical seal on
the inner end of a threaded secure/release pin on which a lock nut is
located. If this nut is not screwed down, the valve might leak but
what's more important is that it can centrifugally open or open when
hitting a "curb"... ta-da!
>>> While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should
>> people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after
>> the first question seems not to be enough.
> Maybe "Thanks, I've got everything I need" will work.
Yes, the kind of voluteerism of these folks is not help I prefer. If
they cannot see that someone is well in charge, sand papering the
patch area, and isn't glancing around for clues, they probably don't
understand the process itself. It's like riders who give obviously
experienced old time riders advice on how to ride not noticing that
this guy is on a well used 1960's bicycle just cruising along. They
wouldn't recognize a professional racer either if the met one.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> I see it the other way. If you need help, ask for it. I find the
>> interrogation I occasionally get while sand papering a tube... "Do
>> you have a spare tube? Do you need a patch? Do you have a pump?
>> Do you need help?... to which the questioner demands answers as
>> though wanting to go through a newly learned sequence and to make
>> use of the knowledge just acquired at the bicycle shop with the
>> bicycle. Some people cannot see when they are not needed.
> The "Some people cannot see when they are not needed" bit puts quite
> a burden on the person asking if someone needs help. And it begs
> the question, when you reply to a given post, do you consider first
> whether it will be welcome or not?
I don't seem to have that trouble when I see someone with a flat. I
ask whether the rider needs anything and that does it. If they are
already busy patching the flat, I don't bother them. It isn't that
arcane an assessment to make.
> Asking someone who may (or may not) need help requires nothing more
> than a three-word response (as in "No, I'm fine"). If one were
> attempting to be civil, you could add two words and reply "No, I'm
> fine, but thanks!" The inherent danger in doing so is that it might
> encourage civility and/or somehow delay the normal progression of
> the universe in some terrible fashion.
Your spin on these events certainly throws the burden of proof back to
the rider, who is busy patching his tire, to accommodate the
inquisitive person who wants to get involved. It's similar to waiters
who will interrupt a quiet conversation of a dining couple to ask
whether "everything is alright" as though diners are incompetent to
ask.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
John Everett
wrote:
>>>> While people should stop to help, anybody who needs help should
>
>>> people cannot see when they are not needed. Just a "Thanks" after
>>> the first question seems not to be enough.
>
>> Maybe "Thanks, I've got everything I need" will work.
>
>Yes, the kind of voluteerism of these folks is not help I prefer. If
>they cannot see that someone is well in charge, sand papering the
>patch area, and isn't glancing around for clues, they probably don't
>understand the process itself. It's like riders who give obviously
>experienced old time riders advice on how to ride not noticing that
>this guy is on a well used 1960's bicycle just cruising along. They
>wouldn't recognize a professional racer either if the met one.
From: http://hyperdictionary.com
CURMUDGEON - [n] a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of
stubborn ideas ;-)
jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
The Real Bev
>
> Yes, the kind of voluteerism of these folks is not help I prefer. If
> they cannot see that someone is well in charge, sand papering the
> patch area, and isn't glancing around for clues, they probably don't
> understand the process itself. It's like riders who give obviously
> experienced old time riders advice on how to ride not noticing that
> this guy is on a well used 1960's bicycle just cruising along. They
> wouldn't recognize a professional racer either if the met one.
OTOH, the woman I met carrying her bike because the front brake cable
broke and it never occurred to her to release the straddle cable
definitely needed help. What was really weird was that she kept on
carrying her bike even after I released the brakes for her...
--
Cheers,
Bev
************************************************************
"Let them eat shit."
-- Marcel Antoinette, Marie's little-known brother
Ron Wallenfang
bracket bearing failed badly, and while the bike wasn't inoperable, a
decided the prudent course was to call my wife for a ride. But there are
few bikers out in Milwaukee at 6:00 p.m. on a cold Feb. evening (more
precisely there were none at that location), and I didn't have my cell phone
along. So it meant a mile walk to the nearest commercial area. FWIW, I've
been fortunate. That's the first time I've had to be picked up because of
mechanical trouble in a long time.
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:YLEVb.22885$Tv6....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> First really, really, REALLY nice day of riding in Northern California in
> some time, and got out this morning with a couple guys from the shop. On
> the way back one of them got a flat, so we're stopped at the side of the
> road, replacing the tube and inflating it with one of those fun
> mini-pumps... probably a good 15 minutes or so, with maybe 30-40 other
> cyclists passing by.
>
> Not one asked if we needed anything. Weird. Are we so self-absorbed in
> whatever we're doing that we no longer ask if somebody might need
anything?
> (True enough that we were OK, but there's no way anybody riding past can
> know that for sure without asking).
>
> 9 times out of 10, when you pass somebody who's stopped at the side of the
> road and doing something with their bike (or just looking a bit out of
> place), they're OK. But there's always that chance that somebody might
have
> discovered that their spare tube doesn't hold air, or their pump isn't
> working, or maybe they can't figure out how to get the wheel back in and
> knocked out a brake shoe.
>
> Of course, lots of people won't say they need help even when they do,
> especially guys, so when I pass somebody at the side of the road, I don't
> ask if they "need help" but instead "Do you have what you need?" It's
truly
> amazing how many more people will say something like "Yeah, if you've got
a
> spare tube that would be great" if you ask them if they need anything...
but
> asking them if they need help and they'll almost always say no.
>
> It doesn't hurt to look after other cyclists on the road. Someday you
just
> might need help yourself.
>
Ron Wallenfang
the kevlar linings from causing a flat, as has happened to me 2 or 3
times). The combination has cut way down on my flats. But it can't prevent
stem failures or valve failures.
"Rick Onanian" <spam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:hsuf20p40pjdk208e...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 13:05:01 -0500, "David L. Johnson"
> <david....@lehigh.edu> wrote:
> >Not too many riders carry spare wheels.
>
> We have kevlar tire beads and belts, and kevlar spokes; when are we
> going to get kevlar rims? <G>
> --
> Rick Onanian
The Danimal
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:34:09 GMT, jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> wrote:
> >The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as a
> >Schrader due to its smaller diameter and therefore, cannot be safely
> >pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot be put
> >against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into the other.
>
> Yup, this is what broke the second tube.
>
> >With the pump handle in one hand and the pump head (on the valve) in
> >the other, pumping reaction force goes into the hands, not the stem
> >that is unable to withstand that force.
A better solution is to find a convenient, strong object
to provide the reaction force. See below for ideas.
> Even while doing this, it can be hard to keep it still and steady.
> It helps to remove the wheel completely from the bike, so that you
> can hold it in whatever position is most comfortable for you to get
> this proper method. However, when excessively tired, or hot, or on a
> dangerous/scary road, or whatever, one can be pretty unsteady. Then,
> schrader's robustness would be preferred over presta's delicateness.
I routinely see bicyclists assuming they must brace the
pump head with one hand while pushing the pump handle with
the other hand. This divides the available pumping force
by more than a factor of two, and almost nobody has the
neuromuscular coordination necessary to exactly match the
dynamically varying pumping force from one hand with a
reaction force from the other hand. Neuromuscular coordination
declines as the cyclist's arm and chest muscles fatigue, and
this produces characteristic jitter as tire pressure increases
and more pumping force is necessary. As the amplitude of jitter
increases, it's easy to break the valve stem or rupture the
rubber joint around the valve base.
The solution is quite simple: find some solid, immovable object
with a vertical face to brace the pump head. A signpost, guard rail,
tree, boulder, or brick wall will often work.
If your frame pump has one of the old-style Campagnolo steel
pump heads with the U-shaped prongs, you can wheel your
bike against a guard rail or sign post and brace the pump head
very nicely against a suitable edge of the post or rail. You
need to manuever the bike a bit to line up the valve
in the position best for bracing the pump head against the
solid object. You still need to grip the pump head with one
hand to steady it against the solid object, but your hand does
not need to supply any reaction force---you only have to prevent
the pump head from slipping. You can pump with the other hand,
and as the tire pressure rises you can assist your pumping
hand with the inside of your corresponding leg. You should
be able to get at least 30 more PSI into the tire (if you
need it) with this method than by using your hands only with
a given pump, and with less danger to the valve stem.
If you have a fellow cyclist to assist by steadying the
pump head against the solid object, then you can use both
hands to generate pumping force. This also allows the method
to work with pumps that do not have projections on the
head that can engage a solid object securely. The assistant
simply wraps both fists around the pump head as if gripping
a baseball bat, with the outside of one fist projecting
just beyond the pump head as necessary to rest securely
against the solid object. Gloves are helpful to protect
the hand that transmits the reaction force.
An assistant allows the pumper to put all his efforts into
driving the pump handle, making it very easy to reach high
pressures. For someone like a small woman with not much
upper-body strength, this may be the only way to attain
a rideable tire pressure using only a frame pump. (Many
small women give up on frame pumps altogether and carry
CO2 cartridges because they cannot generate a high pressure
with a typical frame pump used in the obvious but highly
inefficient way. People should learn to use their strength
wisely.)
With a little spatial reasoning, you can easily exploit
available solid objects to make a frame pump almost as
easy and reliable as a floor pump.
A frame pump with a hose, of course, can be used directly
as a floor pump, using the Earth to provide all the reaction
force one could need. An assistant may need to hold down
the pump for the return stroke if it lacks a foldable foot
peg.
-- Daniel Mocsny
Luigi de Guzman
>If you have a fellow cyclist to assist by steadying the
>pump head against the solid object,
but carrying that pump-monkey around is a real bitch up the hills!
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> The second problem is that the stem is less than half as strong as
>>> a Schrader due to its smaller diameter and therefore, cannot be
>>> safely pumped against. That is to say, the pumping force cannot
>>> be put against the stem but must be essentially from one fist into
>>> the other.
>> Yup, this is what broke the second tube.
>>> With the pump handle in one hand and the pump head (on the valve)
>>> in the other, pumping reaction force goes into the hands, not the
>>> stem that is unable to withstand that force.
> A better solution is to find a convenient, strong object to provide
> the reaction force. See below for ideas.
>> Even while doing this, it can be hard to keep it still and steady.
>> It helps to remove the wheel completely from the bike, so that you
>> can hold it in whatever position is most comfortable for you to get
>> this proper method. However, when excessively tired, or hot, or on
>> a dangerous/scary road, or whatever, one can be pretty unsteady.
>> Then, Schrader's robustness would be preferred over Presta's
>> delicateness.
The problem is that you don't have that choice if you use common high
performance rims. They are too narrow for a Schrader valve unless you
are willing to use lower spoke tension and have a weaker wheel.
> I routinely see bicyclists assuming they must brace the pump head
> with one hand while pushing the pump handle with the other hand.
> This divides the available pumping force by more than a factor of
> two, and almost nobody has the neuromuscular coordination necessary
> to exactly match the dynamically varying pumping force from one hand
> with a reaction force from the other hand.
This claim of a "factor of two" is incorrect mechanically and
physically, the holding hand doing no work. Just doing this once
makes obvious that only the arm that pumps gets tired. Thus I suspect
that you don't in fact pump tires with a frame fit pump or you would
have noticed that it is not so.
> Neuromuscular coordination declines as the cyclist's arm and chest
> muscles fatigue, and this produces characteristic jitter as tire
> pressure increases and more pumping force is necessary. As the
> amplitude of jitter increases, it's easy to break the valve stem or
> rupture the rubber joint around the valve base.
That sounds ominous and scientifical but ridiculous. I agree that
there are many riders who don't have the strength to pump a tire but
that doesn't make this scenario correct. As I have mentioned, the
demise of the Silca Impero pump was the advent of avocational riders
who had the money to buy whatever it took while not being athletically
adept. The market (where the $$ are) voted against those pumps and
now they are essentially gone along with the Campagnolo pump head that
was designed for these pumps.
> The solution is quite simple: find some solid, immovable object with
> a vertical face to brace the pump head. A signpost, guard rail,
> tree, boulder, or brick wall will often work.
I suppose that may seem good but pumping work remains unchanged and
pumping into the other fist is far easier and faster. You can't do it
for free. The work must come from somewhere. You make pumping a tire
sound like such a major problem.
> -- Daniel Mocsny
So where have you been all this time? I haven't seen a posting from
you in years.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Benjamin Weiner
> A better solution is to find a convenient, strong object
> to provide the reaction force. See below for ideas.
...
> The solution is quite simple: find some solid, immovable object
> with a vertical face to brace the pump head. A signpost, guard rail,
> tree, boulder, or brick wall will often work.
I just put the wheel on the ground and use my foot (toes under
the pump head).
Bruce Frech
other. My two arms do a fine job working against each other. I find trying
to brace the valve against a fixed object without fixing the rim is
difficult, and if you brace against the rim you run the risk of breaking the
valve. So I typically hold the wheel in the air so the rim can move freely
with the valve.
Bruce
"Benjamin Weiner" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message
news:4032d813$1@darkstar...