OT: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
Rick J.
of 9/11.
Rick J.
Rick J.
Looks like it's no longer "suspected" but confirmed in a single cow.
According to the Federal Dept. of Agriculture the farm where it was
found is under quarantine and there is no danger that infected meat
found its way into the market and poses no threat to humans.
Rick J.
Ben Hogland
of late.. I plan to stock up my freezer within a few days to weeks...
Ben
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"Rick J." <rjoh...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_J3Gb.24767$VB2.53870@attbi_s51...
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Rick J.
> Looks like it's no longer "suspected" but confirmed in a single cow.
> According to the Federal Dept. of Agriculture the farm where it was
> found is under quarantine and there is no danger that infected meat
> found its way into the market and poses no threat to humans.
Looks like I misspoke. <g> According to the USDA Ag. Secretary
Ann Veneman, the cow "tested presumptively positive for the
brain-wasting illness"...and "additional testing is being done by a
laboratory in England on samples being flown there by military
transport, and that in the meantime the farm in Mapleton, WA has been
quarantined.
Rick J.
Rick J.
> And now look for beef prices to drop off from it's unusually high price as
> of late.. I plan to stock up my freezer within a few days to weeks...
You mean, like, "where's the beef?"
Rick J.
Ben Hogland
Actually, I mean there will be plenty of beef at excellent prices for the
next several weeks and maybe months.. I'm going to take advantage of it..
;) Hey, maybe I can get some New York steaks for 99 cents a pound!! ;)
Ben
R.J.(Bob) Evans
wrote:
>Bad news just as it appears that we are coming out of the economic pinch
>of 9/11.
Welcome to the club boys. Some wise-acre posted here a few days ago
with some crack about us Canucks smuggling boogy-beef into the US.
Like we have been telling you since last May, it was only a matter of
time until your testing uncovered your very own case of this
mysterious disease.
What everyone needs to remember is:
1) there is no conclusive evidence of a link between nvCJD and BSE
2) the fact that you discovered a reactor means that your system is
safe - it worked - you found the bugger & isolated it
3) even if there were a link between nvCJD & BSE, the meat which most
of us eat is not likely to be the carrier
Maybe we can get past the non-tariff barrier to trade element of this
and get on with business between our two countries. I doubt it will
happen quick enough for me to bring some good barley fed beef with me
in two weeks though. :-(
R.J.(Bob) Evans
(return address needs alteration to work)
Graphic Queen
<benho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>And now look for beef prices to drop off from it's unusually high price as
>of late.. I plan to stock up my freezer within a few days to weeks...
>
>Ben
It is not suspected at all. It IS Mad Cow Disease and has been
confirmed.
Jaberwokie
tell anyone? Could it be that profits of Big Agriculture come before the
health and welfare of the American people? They were supposed to ban the
feeding of animal parts to cattle, weren't they?
Ben Hogland
"Graphic Queen" <graphicx...@xxxhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c9ohuv4vpge4f9ifn...@4ax.com...
What's not suspected at all? Low beef prices?
Ben
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BD
"Ben Hogland" <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bsani4$b6mfk$1...@ID-62937.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Graphic Queen" <graphicx...@xxxhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c9ohuv4vpge4f9ifn...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:20:57 -0800, "Ben Hogland"
> > <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >And now look for beef prices to drop off from it's unusually high price
> as
> > >of late.. I plan to stock up my freezer within a few days to
weeks...
> > >
> > >Ben
> >
> > It is not suspected at all. It IS Mad Cow Disease and has been
> > confirmed.
>
> What's not suspected at all? Low beef prices?
>
> Ben
>
I heard tissue samples were being sent to England for confirmation.
But if the disease was detected on Dec. 9, I wonder where and how?
The news didn't say. Was it at the feed lot but the test delayed in reading
until after processing?
Was the cow showing signs before slaughter and hurried to market? Was
tainted feed involved so the whole herd is suspect, and already slaughtered
in with the original cow? How does one cow get the disease? I'd like better
information from the reporters instead of fear blabbing.
BD
Ben Hogland
"BD" <bd_...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vuhu8mg...@corp.supernews.com...
> I heard tissue samples were being sent to England for confirmation.
> But if the disease was detected on Dec. 9, I wonder where and how?
> The news didn't say. Was it at the feed lot but the test delayed in
reading
> until after processing?
> Was the cow showing signs before slaughter and hurried to market? Was
> tainted feed involved so the whole herd is suspect, and already
slaughtered
> in with the original cow? How does one cow get the disease? I'd like
better
> information from the reporters instead of fear blabbing.
> BD
I heard the same thing.. I heard it was a milk cow so the assumption is that
there is no chance it will effect the meat product available.. I suppose it
will take some time before the whole story is hashed out. I'm not afraid to
eat beef from what I have read and heard and I'm pleased to see we have some
checks to catch this.. I might be more concerned if I find out later that
the beef I have been buying was sold to the place where I've been buying me
beef.
BD
"BD" <bd_...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vuhu8mg...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> But if the disease was detected on Dec. 9, I wonder where and how?
> The news didn't say. Was it at the feed lot but the test delayed in
reading
> until after processing?
> Was the cow showing signs before slaughter and hurried to market? Was
> tainted feed involved so the whole herd is suspect, and already
slaughtered
> in with the original cow? How does one cow get the disease? I'd like
better
> information from the reporters instead of fear blabbing.
> BD
>
This just in...the talking heads said the cow was noticed to be acting
strangely by a slaughterhouse employee. A sample was saved and tested while
the cow was processed for non-consumer use anyway. Meaning, ground up with
other parts for feed stock. It won't be on your plate, at least
directly...yet.
BD
BD
I'm sure you are right that the story will spin a bit. I'm having a
tenderloin tonight that I paid $12 a pound. It's bacon wrapped and I'll
enjoy it. But at that price I only buy one once in a while.
BD
Ben Hogland
"BD" <bd_...@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vuhv8bl...@corp.supernews.com...
> I'm sure you are right that the story will spin a bit. I'm having a
> tenderloin tonight that I paid $12 a pound. It's bacon wrapped and I'll
> enjoy it. But at that price I only buy one once in a while.
> BD
I had a top-cut sirloin this evening.. Your steak sounds much better.. :-)
I find the cheaper steaks are often more tasty than the expensive steaks.
With that said, I still like choice new York steak.. I have a few frozen
for my upcoming trip.. I don't think I'll hesitate to enjoy them and I hope
this issue was caught early enough as to virtually mean nothing to us as
consumers.. I LUV *RED* beef and eat it regularly.
Rick J.
I'm having a
> tenderloin tonight that I paid $12 a pound. It's bacon wrapped and I'll
> enjoy it. But at that price I only buy one once in a while.
Egads! You're suffering from "Mad Steaklovers" disease.<g>
Rick J.
SOROBON
>tenderloin tonight that I paid $12 a pound.
The price of beef will drop quickly, along with stock prices of Wendys, MacD
etc. they are probably all going to be good buys.
I do have some WA beef if anyone wants to buy it for half price--I am in AZ
now.
Sorobon
Dave Thompson
"R.J.(Bob) Evans" <bob d0t evans at sasktel d0t net> wrote in message
news:30mhuvccr71ehsalb...@4ax.com...
I agree. And anyhoo, it was a milk cow!
--
Dave Thompson
Not Me
| tell anyone? Could it be that profits of Big Agriculture come before the
| health and welfare of the American people? They were supposed to ban the
| feeding of animal parts to cattle, weren't they?
Remember this is the same government that told the NYFD, NYPD and 911 clean
up crews that there were no toxic elements in the environment. It's also
the same gov that is modifying the rules of mercy released into the
atmosphere.
R.J.(Bob) Evans
<daveth...@askforit.net> wrote:
>> Maybe we can get past the non-tariff barrier to trade element of this
>> and get on with business between our two countries. I doubt it will
>> happen quick enough for me to bring some good barley fed beef with me
>> in two weeks though. :-(
>>
>> R.J.(Bob) Evans
>
>I agree. And anyhoo, it was a milk cow!
You're right - it was a milk cow. However, just so we're clear, they
still end up in the food chain. It's called hamburger.
R.J.(Bob) Evans
wrote:
>They knew about the disease December 9th. Why did they wait 2 weeks to
>tell anyone? Could it be that profits of Big Agriculture come before the
>health and welfare of the American people? They were supposed to ban the
>feeding of animal parts to cattle, weren't they?
>
Or could it be that the system worked, the animal got detected, tested
and reported. If the wailing loony fringe had the slimmest
understanding of the processes that ensure the safety of North
America's food chain they would go off and whine about some of the
REAL health risks like smoking and drinking. And we would all be the
better for their silence.
Tom Marik
the atmosphere. >>
It's my opinion that we need more especially during the holidays.
Tom M, compassionate conservative
Guess Who?
book... You're not going to find one like that on a Holstien...
I used to eat a lot of Holstien beef, when I lived on a dairy farm,
near Everson, WA. They make for some strange looking steaks!
Don
Joe Bedford
>>
> Maybe we can get past the non-tariff barrier to trade element of this
> and get on with business between our two countries. I doubt it will
> happen quick enough for me to bring some good barley fed beef with me
> in two weeks though. :-(
I suspect things in certain countries move so slow that we
won't be able to bring Canadian cat food with us in 3 weeks
when we head south.
--
Cheers, Joe Bedford
--------------------------------
reverse DROFDEBEOJ to reply
GBinNC
wrote:
>This just in...the talking heads said the cow was noticed to be acting
>strangely by a slaughterhouse employee.
When they moved the cow away from the employee, did it start acting
normally again? <g>
GB in NC
Mark-in-OR
>information from the reporters instead of fear blabbing.
>BD
BD, do some research. This disease is transmitted by the feed. But only feed
that is made from ground up animals, particularly the brains. I'm not sure I
understand completely the mechanism, but it boils down to a chemical in the
brain/body that is built up over time and each succeeding generation passes the
chemical along since they are, in essence,eating their ancestors.
There have been recorded instances of the disease in humans among the, IIRC,
cannibals of New Guina <sp?> in the south Pacific back in the 30's or 40's.
Mark
.
Neon John
wrote:
>And now look for beef prices to drop off from it's unusually high price as
>of late.. I plan to stock up my freezer within a few days to weeks...
>
>Ben
Here's how to tell if your cow is mad.
http://viswiz.imk.fraunhofer.de/~steffi/madcow/
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Alan Balmer
<daveth...@askforit.net> wrote:
>
>I agree. And anyhoo, it was a milk cow!
>
Dunno about that, but it already went to the processor - that's where
they made the test.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerc...@att.net
Jenny6833A
> This disease is transmitted by the feed. But only feed
>that is made from ground up animals, particularly the brains.
The disease is transmitted by feed from ground up animal parts, but not only
from such feed. Else there'd be no need to slaughter and burn all animals in a
grass-fed or grain-fed herd when the disease is detected in one animal -- as
has long been routine practice in Britain, France, and elsewhere.
The disease is *primarily* passed to humans by tissues from the bovine brain,
spinal column, and lower intestine -- but that isn't the only source of
transmission.
It resides in all the bones, which is why you can't buy a cut of beef with a
bone in it in France anymore, and why there are now rigid rules as to how beef
is cut to prevent chipping/gouging the bone when making bone-free steaks and
hamburger.
That lady who has been making all the official pronouncements doesn't know her
patootie from a hole in a cow's brain.
Her assurances about an "isolated incident" and "safety of the meat supply"
sound just like the statements made in Britain, then in France, when the
problem hit there.
It sounds like the USA has learned nothing from those who have had the problem,
made the mistakes, learned the hard way, and finally brought it under control.
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
RVC
RVC,USMC
"GBinNC" <GBi...@yahoooo.com> wrote in message
news:hm8iuvceoaho76djf...@4ax.com...
Lon VanOstran
DonLa...@webtv.net (Guess Who?) writes:
Porterhouse. One side of the bone is New York Strip, and the other side is
Filet Mignon.
Lon
Alan Balmer
wrote:
>It sounds like the USA has learned nothing from those who have had the problem,
>made the mistakes, learned the hard way, and finally brought it under control.
It seems a bit early to make that judgement, based only on the public
pronouncements of one bureaucrat. Her job is to talk to the media
while smarter people get some work done.
Of course, there's the fact that no matter what the subject, anything
the USA does is bad.
Guess Who?
Have you ever seen a "Porterhouse" i.e. a "full cut T bone" out of a
dairy cow? If you got one of them in a restaurant, you'd throw a well
deserved "fit"!
Don
Bubba DaLoveSponge
ONLY test the 'downers', cows who can't stand or
walk, how about all the cows that are slaughtered
that have the disease but it has not manifested itself,
(takes 4-5 years to manifest) !??
Slaughtered on 12/9/2003 and only found out on 12/22/2003,
I honestly thought the beef we ate was maybe only a
week old since slaughter, this and my above statement
cause real concern that the state/Feds are not looking
out as closely as they should?! And the business
concerns are huge!!
Reminds one of the lack of secure cockpit doors on
planes, fought by the airlines to NOT do it for years, and
seemingly would not ever except when the taxpayers would
pay for it after 9/11,
What's the old saying:
"why bother closing the barn door when the cows have
already escaped?"
Re-active not Pro-active, the 'profiteers way'!
Bubba DaLoveSponge
> Of course, there's the fact that no matter what the subject, anything
> the USA does is bad.
>
It seems that way these days, but then again, look at the US's
VERY inconsistent foreign policy, 'love them dictators' until,
we send in military to over throw them and spend gobs of
US money better used elseways!!
We either have incompetent FedGov or there is certainly an
agenda that is not public and not desired by the majority!!
And why has the US not done more to prevent/correct BSE
from EVER being an issue (no random testing, only testing
'downed' cows, etc), there are at least 2 countrys to learn
from and who hopefully have solved the BSE issue?!
Jenny6833A
>jenny...@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A)
>wrote:
>
>>It sounds like the USA has learned nothing from those who have had the
>problem,
>>made the mistakes, learned the hard way, and finally brought it under
>control.
>
>It seems a bit early to make that judgement, based only on the public
>pronouncements of one bureaucrat. Her job is to talk to the media
>while smarter people get some work done.
Such as packing up a sample to send to Britain for testing? <G>
And one would think that downed cows would be certified disease free *before*
being slaughtered, turned into steaks, and shipped off to thy and I.
>Of course, there's the fact that no matter what the subject, anything
>the USA does is bad.
Most of what the USA does is good, although somewhat less so lately.
My ongoing complaint is that the USA learns so little from others.
Doc
RE: Re: OT: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
BY: "Rick J." <rjoh...@comcast.net>
>Looks like I misspoke. <g> According to the USDA Ag. Secretary
>Ann Veneman, the cow "tested presumptively positive for the
>brain-wasting illness"...and "additional testing is being done by a
>laboratory in England on samples being flown there by military
>transport, and that in the meantime the farm in Mapleton, WA has been
>quarantined.
>Rick J.
-
Try Mabton, WA. There isn't, as far as I can tell, a Mapleton, WA. Mabton is
in Yakima county.
-
-
Origin: The Wild Wild West * 503-623-0185
Doc
RE: Re: OT: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
-
Or could it be that no one has bothered to read the news reports and the USDA
page on this subject? According to the USDA page, there was a sample taken on
December 9th. Test results came back on December 22nd. A second sample was
sent off on December 23rd for verification and the farm was quarantined.
-
Basically, no one knew on the 9th if the cow was just old or sick.
ww...@cwnet.com
be that after slaughtering a beef, we hung it in a cooler to "age" for
4 - 6 weeks which was a natural tenderizing process. Things may have
changed but I think it is definitely over a week from slaughter to
eating - unless you are on the range and hungry.
George
HDinNY
> The honetly sad thing and confusing is that they
> ONLY test the 'downers', cows who can't stand or
> walk, how about all the cows that are slaughtered
> that have the disease but it has not manifested itself,
> (takes 4-5 years to manifest) !??
>
> Slaughtered on 12/9/2003 and only found out on 12/22/2003,
> I honestly thought the beef we ate was maybe only a
> week old since slaughter, this and my above statement
> cause real concern that the state/Feds are not looking
> out as closely as they should?! And the business
> concerns are huge!!
snipped
We have really good friends from Michigan who raise beef as
a major source of their farm income. I know they are
dreading the out fall of this disgusting news. Beef opened
this AM only a few cents low but, there were mostly sell
orders and very few buy orders. When the market opens Monday
morning, the shit will hit the fan.
The hell of it is, this didn't have to happen. All that had
to be done was adopt the same safeguards the other countries
have. We drug our feet and WHAM, we get it in the rear. Good
job both bureaucrats and politicians, OF BOTH PARTIES.
HD in NY bah humbug
Lon VanOstran
DonLa...@webtv.net (Guess Who?) writes:
There is a reason why some of us quote a portion of the post to which we
respond. It isn't because we are trying to make fun of Web tv people. It's
because we want people to understand what we are trying to say.
It seems that you have an equally good reason why you _don't_ quote any of the
post. Clearly, you are trying to get away with making it appear that I made a
claim which I did not make.
This farm boy doesn't need lesson regarding beef from an idiot who can't or
won't quote. I suspect that you would try to milk the bull.
Lon, who knows the difference between dairy cattle and beef cattle, along with
understanding that an old cow is too tough to chew.
Lon VanOstran
jenny...@aol.comClothes (Jenny6833A) writes:
>My ongoing complaint is that the USA learns so little from others.
>
>:-)
>
>Jenny
That might be because we are so busy teaching them, feeding them, and
protecting them.
Lon
Max
Inquiring minds want to know. <G>
Max
Neon John
>We have really good friends from Michigan who raise beef as
>a major source of their farm income. I know they are
>dreading the out fall of this disgusting news. Beef opened
>this AM only a few cents low but, there were mostly sell
>orders and very few buy orders. When the market opens Monday
>morning, the shit will hit the fan.
Well, since the price of beef literally doubled the week before Thanksgiving
because of the Canadian MCD, if the price drops by half it'll be back where it
should be and has been for the last 3-4 years. Sure was funny how the Big
Three packing houses ran their prices up on the same day.
>The hell of it is, this didn't have to happen. All that had
>to be done was adopt the same safeguards the other countries
>have. We drug our feet and WHAM, we get it in the rear. Good
>job both bureaucrats and politicians, OF BOTH PARTIES.
>HD in NY bah humbug
What is it again that "we've" gotten? Another chance to go hysterical over a
non-issue. Yeah, that's the ticket.
John
R.J.(Bob) Evans
blathered on about BSE which only served to illustrate her complete
cluelessness about the subject and finally concluded:
>It sounds like the USA has learned nothing from those who have had the problem,
>made the mistakes, learned the hard way, and finally brought it under control.
>
Wrong on every count Jenny.
There is no scientific link between nvCJD & BSE. Your government is
doing the right things. This disease occurs spontaneously in 1 in 1
million animals. If you test enough you will find it. Your numbers
just happened to come up.
There MAY be science to support removing spinal tissue from rendered
feed. Beyond that, take a pill and buy a (soon to be cheap) steak.
Don Dickson
Hi Bob.
Where was the info about the spontaneous BSE? I had never heard
that before. I thought something like that would have been in the
Canadian news when the Alberta case came up. The only thing I
ever heard about was the possibility that it was in contaminated
cattle feed and that a Washington state feed processor was shut
down by US inspectors for not following the rules about excluding
spinal and brain tissue as a protein additive.
--
Don Dickson
Not Me
| > >This just in...the talking heads said the cow was noticed to be acting
| > >strangely by a slaughterhouse employee.
|
R.J.(Bob) Evans
<johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
IMO John hit the nail squarely on the head when he noted that:
> since the price of beef literally doubled the week before Thanksgiving
>because of the Canadian MCD, if the price drops by half it'll be back where it
>should be and has been for the last 3-4 years. Sure was funny how the Big
>Three packing houses ran their prices up on the same day.
That has been one of the most infuriating aspects of this whole fiasco
north of the border. The slaughter price has tanked - fats are around
80 cents c/w 1.40 pre-May; culls are almost a disposal problem 8-20
cents is the range. But the grocery store price has hardly budged.
The butchers are stealing the difference and laughing all the way to
the bank
>>The hell of it is, this didn't have to happen. All that had
>>to be done was adopt the same safeguards the other countries
>>have. We drug our feet and WHAM, we get it in the rear. Good
>>job both bureaucrats and politicians, OF BOTH PARTIES.
>>HD in NY bah humbug
>
>What is it again that "we've" gotten? Another chance to go hysterical over a
>non-issue. Yeah, that's the ticket.
AMEN again. What amazed me when this story broke was how
insignificant the Japanese & Korean market really is. We had been
bombarded with stories about how the US market couldn't afford to give
up the orientals when our so-called crisis hit, yet apparently that
market is only $2 billion. Now that is still a chunk of change unless
I had Lon to help me raise it but in the grand scheme of US trade it
is like an old lady peeing in the ocean.
Get on with it. Mad cow is part of reality. Cows go that way if you
keep them long enough. Eating them will NOT give you CJD. In the
short term enjoy the cheap steaks - IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE. My guess?
Your butchers will steal the margin too and you won't be able to buy
your steaks any cheaper.
Janet Wilder
d0t evans at sasktel d0t net> writes:
>What amazed me when this story broke was how
>insignificant the Japanese & Korean market really is. <snip>
The Japanese own huge herds that they keep right here in Montana. They own
thousands of acres of ranchland.
>Get on with it. Mad cow is part of reality. Cows go that way if you
>keep them long enough. Eating them will NOT give you CJD. In the
>short term enjoy the cheap steaks - IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE. My guess?
>Your butchers will steal the margin too and you won't be able to buy
>your steaks any cheaper.
Has anyone else noticed that it is getting harder and harder to find *choice*
grade beef in the supermarkets? Most of the stuff I've been seeing is *select*
grade. The choice stuff is now labled "Angus" or something a lot more pricy.
J
The Road Princess
Residentially Challenged
Spelling and punctuation is up to my editors. I take no responsibility
R.J.(Bob) Evans
wrote:
>Where was the info about the spontaneous BSE? I had never heard
I'll find you a link when I get home. Dial-up connect here.
>that before. I thought something like that would have been in the
>Canadian news when the Alberta case came up.
It was.
> The only thing I
>ever heard about was the possibility that it was in contaminated
>cattle feed and that a Washington state feed processor was shut
>down by US inspectors for not following the rules about excluding
>spinal and brain tissue as a protein additive.
Because it can be spread between bovines by contaminated feed.
Doc
RE: Re: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
BY: Neon John <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net>
>>The hell of it is, this didn't have to happen. All that had
>>to be done was adopt the same safeguards the other countries
>>have. We drug our feet and WHAM, we get it in the rear. Good
>>job both bureaucrats and politicians, OF BOTH PARTIES.
>>HD in NY bah humbug
>
>What is it again that "we've" gotten? Another chance to go hysterical over a
>non-issue. Yeah, that's the ticket.
>John
-
Yep, that is what it is... another non-issue.
-
According to the news, the cow had become injured in calving, thus was unable
to walk (although there are reports it had walked a little). It was not a
sick or ill cow. There was no reason to suspect *anything*. The sample that
was taken and tested was taken as a procedure, not because the animal was
suspect. Apparently it was checked by 2 vets prior to being approved for
slaughter. Just what safeguards did HD mean? Seems to my John has it right,
hysteria.
-
Mad Cow Disease is spread via the brain and spine. Neither of those items were
processed. There should be nothing wrong with the meat.
Doc
RE: Re: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
>There MAY be science to support removing spinal tissue from rendered
>feed. Beyond that, take a pill and buy a (soon to be cheap) steak.
>R.J.(Bob) Evans
-
I wish it would be cheap steak. Unfortunately it will probably be really
really expensive. Especially since 3 countries have now decided to ban
imports, and 4 major grocery retailers have pulled thier meats... out of
"Safety". So out of "safety" concerns several TONS of meat will be tossed
because a few hundred pounds came from a sick cow. <sheesh>.
Neon John
sasktel d0t net> wrote:
>Get on with it. Mad cow is part of reality.
Reality really needs to be defined here. One has thousands of times greater
chance of being hit by lightning on a given day than catching BSE (I prefer
the real name rather than Mad Cow Disease). Indeed, one has a larger chance
of being killed by a meteor impact than this disease. I can't believe people
even pay it any heed at all. Of course, if the media was screaming every day
about lightning strikes, showing lurid pictures of a person having his shoes
blown off....
>Cows go that way if you
>keep them long enough. Eating them will NOT give you CJD. In the
>short term enjoy the cheap steaks - IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE. My guess?
>Your butchers will steal the margin too and you won't be able to buy
>your steaks any cheaper.
Don't blame the butchers. Blame the packing houses. Meat packing has been
consolidated into three major one semi-minor houses. Regardless of the brand,
meat in the US comes from one of these houses. They have an effective
monopoly. This is a fallout of the roaring 90s. When I started in this
business 8 years ago I had a dozen or more packing houses to buy from. No
more.
I buy over 1000lbs of meat per week. I can call local distributors for the
three major brands and will find the price to be the same within a penny. It
will change with all three within hours when a change happens. I was
surprised to learn that I actually pay less per pound for the cuts I use than
the local Sam's Club. I swapped notes one day with the meat buyer. THIS is a
monopoly.
The threat of the big guys buying overseas meat on one side and the
(relatively weak) power of the big cattle co-ops on the other are all that
counters this monopoly. I just hope this hysteria doesn't shut off the
overseas sources. Prices will go wild if that happens.
Neon John
>Has anyone else noticed that it is getting harder and harder to find *choice*
>grade beef in the supermarkets? Most of the stuff I've been seeing is *select*
>grade. The choice stuff is now labled "Angus" or something a lot more pricy.
Yup. Catering to that class which "draws" each month. What annoys me is that
"choice" covers a huge range and is further divided at the wholesale level
into "high choice" and "low choice". High choice ribeye is almost
indistinguishable from prime. Low choice is barely distinguishable from
select or lower. Meat grading is very subjective. I serve Prime grade steaks
in my restaurant and have learned that I have to be VERY careful about the
source of my prime meat. The IBP brand is the red label wrapper is very good.
So is the beef sold by Allen Brothers out of Chicago.
There's been so much hysteria about the bad effects of red meat that much of
the marbling had been bred out of the mainline production breeds. Only
special herds of Black Angus bred for the purpose now supply the prime and
high choice in the US. The supply of prime is very limited and sometimes I
just flat can't get it. I substitute high choice (and tell the customers, of
course). I really can't tell the difference other than a side-by-side
comparison and sometimes not even then.
BTW, if you've never had a properly aged Prime grade steak, you really ought
to seek one out. It's a steak experience unlike anything else. You do have
to be careful, though. I've had some pretty bad meat served up as USDA Prime
at Prime prices. Ruth's Chris does a pretty good job. So do I :-) In fact,
I've spoiled myself for eating steak in any other restaurant.
Caffeine Junkie
> Ruth's Chris does a pretty good job.
In a classic "I may not know meat, but I know what I like" kind of way,
I have to agree - their Mushroom-stuffed Filet Mignon is to-die-for.
Oh, wait a minute. According to The Death Clock, I've already died.
Never mind.
--
CJ
HHamp5246
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/airstm2268/roadtrip2003.htm
My rig: http://members.aol.com/airstm2268/excella.htm
"You only get to choose what you read, not what I write."
SteveB
> Mad Cow Disease is spread via the brain and spine. Neither of those items
were
> processed. There should be nothing wrong with the meat.
> -
I thought it was an outgrowth of this group and some of its
posters.....................
Steve
HDinNY
snipped
Well, I'll listen to the "experts" and form my own opinions.
You may well be right and part of what you write is born out
by this;
<http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cjd/bse_cjd_qa.htm>
It also raises some issues that conflict with your
"opinion". I'd appreciate a reasonable response as opposed
to a flame, thank you.
HD in NY still eating beef
RVnKen
>Mad Cow Disease is spread via the brain and spine. Neither of those items
>were
>processed. There should be nothing wrong with the meat.
They were processed.... into cattle feed and pet food.
Tom Shaw
Properly aged New York strips are a little "high" and you can taste it.
However dont worry about it. I haven't seen any of that for decades. In
fact a lot of the strip steaks dont even look like strip steaks. Also I am
totally disenchanted with Ruth Chris both in New Orleans and Dallas.
The medical profession, which has been crusading all my life for me to stay
as thin as I was in high school, has managed to fix things to the point
where the only marbled beef in our stores is Angus. Furthermore pork is so
lean it comes out tough as jerky if you cook it enough to defeat
trichanosis. Thanks all you diet concious jerks.
TS
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3sunuvoa8lsh7vecu...@4ax.com...
Alan Balmer
And where did you get this information that conflicts with all the
published reports I've seen?
I won't give a bunch of specific references, since all you need to do
is go to Google news and type in "mad cow" to get hundreds. Quote from
one:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=541&ncid=751&e=1&u=/ap/20031226/ap_on_he_me/mad_cow
" Government officials insisted there was no threat to the food supply
because the cow's brain, the spinal cord and the lower part of the
small intestine where scientists say the disease is found were removed
before it was sent on for processing."
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerc...@att.net
Jenny6833A
>" Government officials insisted there was no threat to the food supply
>because the cow's brain, the spinal cord and the lower part of the
>small intestine where scientists say the disease is found were removed
>before it was sent on for processing."
Removed and done what with?
:-)
Jenny
Before emailing, remove Clothes
Alan Balmer
wrote:
>FWIW.
>Properly aged New York strips are a little "high" and you can taste it.
>However dont worry about it. I haven't seen any of that for decades. In
>fact a lot of the strip steaks dont even look like strip steaks.
Maybe they aren't <g>. I suppose the definition of strip steak is
standard, but I've noticed a lot of "creative naming" lately. In an
Albertsons last week I saw something labeled "boneless ribs." Aside
from the contradiction in the name, it didn't look like rib meat. The
butcher on duty admitted that it was another cut of meat (forgot what
he said) cut in the shape of ribs.
When did "Angus" become a grade? I thought it was a breed.
Alan Balmer
wrote:
>Alan Balmer alba...@att.net quotes some news article
>
>>" Government officials insisted there was no threat to the food supply
>>because the cow's brain, the spinal cord and the lower part of the
>>small intestine where scientists say the disease is found were removed
>>before it was sent on for processing."
>
>Removed and done what with?
Samples were taken for testing, the rest was discarded. Of course, if
you were seriously interested in the facts, you would have looked them
up, as I did, rather than making a remark implying otherwise.
BTW, please either stop using that stupid permanent smiley, or put a
"-- " line in front of it so that it's recognized as part of your
signature.
>
>:-)
>
>Jenny
>
>Before emailing, remove Clothes
--
Ben Hogland
"Alan Balmer" <alba...@att.net> wrote in message
news:usuouvc4tlv1i6t72...@4ax.com...
> " Government officials insisted there was no threat to the food supply
> because the cow's brain, the spinal cord and the lower part of the
> small intestine where scientists say the disease is found were removed
> before it was sent on for processing."
I heard on the radio that with cows slaughtered by slitting of the throat,
the muscle meat is safe, but with screw gun killed cows, brain material can
get into the lungs and thus into the meat hence not a guarantee that the
meat is safe.
Ben
--
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HDinNY
How about the machine picked meat? What you say may be true,
the experts aren't sure yet. The smartest thing to do is to
ban the use of animal protein in any critter food. Plus, ban
the use of meat picking equipment. The trouble with all the
"opinions" given to date is they are based on shaky
conclusions. Rather than risk a future "epidemic" of hooman
mad cow, it would be better to run with the rest of the pack
and ban all the above. Bottom line is, I don't trust ANY
bureaucrat to tell me the truth.
HD in NY
Jenny6833A
>
>>Alan Balmer alba...@att.net quotes some news article
>>
>>>" Government officials insisted there was no threat to the food supply
>>>because the cow's brain, the spinal cord and the lower part of the
>>>small intestine where scientists say the disease is found were removed
>>>before it was sent on for processing."
>>
>>Removed and done what with?
>
>Samples were taken for testing, the rest was discarded.
"Discarded"? LOL
Discarded where?
What was done with the "discarded" body parts.
>Of course, if
>you were seriously interested in the facts, you would have looked them
>up, as I did, ...
If you looked anything up, you sure didn't find an answer!
"Discarded"! LOL
Discarded where? What was done with them?
Peter Pan
"Jenny6833A" <jenny...@aol.comClothes> wrote in message
news:20031226142956...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >>>" Government officials insisted there was no threat to the food supply
> >>>because the cow's brain, the spinal cord and the lower part of the
> >>>small intestine where scientists say the disease is found were removed
> >>>before it was sent on for processing."
> >>
> >>Removed and done what with?
> >
> >Samples were taken for testing, the rest was discarded.
>
> "Discarded"? LOL
>
> Discarded where?
>
> What was done with the "discarded" body parts.
>
>
>
> Discarded where? What was done with them?
>
> :-)
>
> Jenny
>
> Before emailing, remove Clothes
Maybe they are actually saved for transplants to some of the Usenet posters?
:)
Tom Shaw
TS
"HDinNY" <er...@error.com> wrote in message
news:6F%Gb.1797$d4....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Alan Balmer
wrote:
The inspectors ate them, in a heroic attempt to save the Jenny's of
the world from further madness.
Otherwise, they would have been put back into the processing chain, so
as to recover the few cents they lost by not selling it as dog food at
the supermarket.
(I know you aren't actually interested in the real answer, since it
doesn't fit your agenda, but samples are preserved for possible future
testing, and the rest is incinerated. )
Ed
"Jenny6833A" <jenny...@aol.comClothes> wrote in message
news:20031226142956...@mb-m28.aol.com...
Probably made into weenies.
Ed
Ed
> >
> How about the machine picked meat? What you say may be true,
> the experts aren't sure yet. The smartest thing to do is to
> ban the use of animal protein in any critter food. Plus, ban
> the use of meat picking equipment. The trouble with all the
> "opinions" given to date is they are based on shaky
> conclusions. Rather than risk a future "epidemic" of hooman
> mad cow, it would be better to run with the rest of the pack
> and ban all the above. Bottom line is, I don't trust ANY
> bureaucrat to tell me the truth.
> HD in NY
The were not put into their jobs to tell you the truth. Their job is go
give you that warm fuzzy feeling.
Ed
Marymargm
I figured "insignificant shrimps".
Or is that the same thing?
Mary
Janet Wilder
<benho...@hotmail.com> writes:
>I heard on the radio that with cows slaughtered by slitting of the throat,
>the muscle meat is safe, but with screw gun killed cows, brain material can
>get into the lungs and thus into the meat hence not a guarantee that the
>meat is safe.
If that's true, then there is another reason to purchase Kosher meat.
Janet Wilder
<alba...@att.net> writes:
>When did "Angus" become a grade? I thought it was a breed.
>
It is a breed, but markets are pricing *choice* beef higher and labeling it
Angus. I suppose that it really is from the breed. What I've been seeing more
and more throughout our travels is that the beef in the supermarket is all
*select* grade. If you want the stuff you chew without having to stew, you
have to buy the Angus, which is the only way to find *choice* in a lot of
areas.
Janet, who is going to brave it and cook and eat stuffed peppers with ground
sirloin in 'em. Then again, no one will notice if I *go mad* as that's my
normal state.<g>
GBinNC
<mynameg...@murrayranch.com> wrote:
>> Probably made into weenies.
>> Ed
>I figured "insignificant shrimps".
>
>Or is that the same thing?
I think maybe insignificant shrimps also have insignificant weenies.
Is that it, Jenny <g>? (BTW, you never did reply to some serious
questions I posed you in that thread.)
GB in NC
SteveB
"Peter Pan" <Marcs11...@Hotmail.com> wrote >
> Maybe they are actually saved for transplants to some of the Usenet
posters?
> :)
>
>
Particularly the brains.
Steve
Alan Balmer
wrote:
>In article <bsi0m4$d6kk8$1...@ID-62937.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Ben Hogland"
><benho...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>I heard on the radio that with cows slaughtered by slitting of the throat,
>>the muscle meat is safe, but with screw gun killed cows, brain material can
>>get into the lungs and thus into the meat hence not a guarantee that the
>>meat is safe.
>
"Screw gun"? Probably referring to "captive bolt" guns. Apparently
there are indications that using the "penetrating" type guns causes
brain material to enter the circulatory system (not the lungs,
directly) and possibly contaminate the muscle tissue, since the heart
continues to pump. This method is now outlawed in GB. Sounds like it
should be outlawed everywhere.
When I was a kid on the farm, large animals were shot in the head just
before slitting the throat. Same problem there, I suppose.
>If that's true, then there is another reason to purchase Kosher meat.
>
Yep. Do they stun the animal in any way before slaughter?
Janet Wilder
<alba...@att.net> writes:
>>If that's true, then there is another reason to purchase Kosher meat.
>>
>Yep. Do they stun the animal in any way before slaughter?
>
Nope. Stunning is not permissible. They slit the throat in one continuous
movement that slices the jugular. After each kill the knife must be tested to
make sure there are no nicks in it as a nick may stop the continuous motion and
cause pain. They do hang the animals by one leg on a shackle before slaughter
but they are like that for seconds and don't suffer. Also, after slaughter,
the innards are inspected and if there are blemishes the animal can't be used.
Ben Hogland
"Janet Wilder" <pri...@aol.comupyours> wrote in message
news:20031226170925...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> In article <bsi0m4$d6kk8$1...@ID-62937.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Ben Hogland"
> <benho...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> >I heard on the radio that with cows slaughtered by slitting of the
throat,
> >the muscle meat is safe, but with screw gun killed cows, brain material
can
> >get into the lungs and thus into the meat hence not a guarantee that the
> >meat is safe.
>
> If that's true, then there is another reason to purchase Kosher meat.
Yes, it appears Kosher meats offer that extra layer of protection against
this issue.
Doc
RE: Re: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
BY: rvn...@cs.comusn (RVnKen)
>>Mad Cow Disease is spread via the brain and spine. Neither of those items
>>were
>>processed. There should be nothing wrong with the meat.
>
>They were processed.... into cattle feed and pet food.
-
Really? Where did you get that gem of information?
-
According to every news report I have read/seen, they *have* the brain and
spine (and other organs). Brain and spine are, by FDA rule, not allowed to be
processed into any food stuffs, either human or animal. According to the
information I have found, the brain and spine were sent to a rendering plant,
but apparently were recovered since the news keeps mentioning that the organs
were not processed and were recovered, recovered to the point that samples
could be taken and tested for the disease.
-
-
Origin: The Wild Wild West * 503-623-0185
Doc
RE: Re: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
-
I wish you had left a little of the comments I made that you don't agree with,
would make it easier to discuss them and either admit idiocy or try to justify
what I said.
-
My opinions are just that, my opinions. Formed by what I read and how I
interpret what I read. They may be the same as yours, they may differ.
-<if -all- our opinions were exactly the same, this "group" would not be as
much fun to read... :) >-
-
Looks like you were responding to my response to John, I didn't see your
original message here.
-
The website you reference backs up the transmission of the disease via brain
and spine. Maybe you were referencing the comment that there was nothing wrong
with the meat?
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/issues/bse/risk_assessment/kfbse0913.pdf
-<quote>
To date there has been no evidence of infectivity detected in milk or muscle
tissue.
-<end quote>
-
http://us.cnn.com/2003/US/12/23/mad.cow/
Agriculture Secratary Ann Veneman:
-<quote>
"One important thing to remember is that muscle cuts of meat have almost no
risk," Veneman said, emphasizing that the disease is typically spread by
consumption of brain or nerve tissue, which did not enter the food system. "I
know of no sience to show that you can transmit BSE from muscle cuts of meat."
-<end quote>
The National Cattleman's Beef Association:
-<quote>
"all scientific studies show that the BSE infectious agent has never been found
in beef muscle meat or milk and U.S. beef remains safe to eat."
-<end quote>
-
Of course one thing I have noticed is the differences in incubation time. News
reports are saying 3-4 years in cattle, 6-8 years for symptoms to appear in
cattle... not real specific there. I did see a website that mentions the human
form of this disease can take up to 40 years to show up. A very long
incubation time.
-
There are also statements about the casual relationship between BSE and the
human form CJD or vCJD. But that is only a casual observation, nothing that
has been proven, from what I can find. To my mind, any link is -very- casual,
since there were 183,000 cases of mad cow disease in the UK, yet only 143 cases
of CJD in the UK, apparently through the same time period (while not explicitly
stated as dates of reporting, what is stated is "Through the end of November
2003" and "As of December 1, 2003," the implication is this is a cumulative
total since reporting started.) This indicates a very low percentage of people
even getting the related disease, with no documentation that they even consumed
tainted beef. The casual relationship was determined by noting that countries
without BSE also didn't have CJD. Does not mean there isn't another factor
involved.
-
To my mind, after reading what I can find in books and via a web search, and
what I hear on the news, I don't see where there is any problem with the meat
in the stores.
Jenny6833A
>(I know you aren't actually interested in the real answer ...
I'd love to know how it's all done in the United States.
>... since it doesn't fit your agenda ...
My agenda was to find out if you know and, if you did, learn something from
you.
You don't know, and aren't willing to admit it, so I've wasted my time on you.
> ... but samples are preserved for possible future
>testing ...
How long are they kept? What's done with them after that?
>... and the rest is incinerated. )
At what temperature? In what kind of vessel?
[Hint: Ordinary burning doesn't destroy prions.]
HDinNY
snipped
> To my mind, after reading what I can find in books and via a web search, and
> what I hear on the news, I don't see where there is any problem with the meat
> in the stores.
And, I'm not saying there is. What I am finding is the
science isn't at the point yet where we can say anything
with finality. There are too many loose ends and even though
there is much data, it isn't conclusive one way or another.
Not enough time has gone by for us, the general public, to
make any decisions on what should be the correct course of
action. What I do find is, we are not going to the same
degree of protection as other countries.
It's a little bit like the FDA "banning" importation of
Canadian drugs, for whatever screwball reason. Or, not
approving drugs already saving lives in foreign countries.
Like I said, I don't believe anything a bureaucrat tells me.
Of course I don't believe most of what corporation heads
spew either. Everything I've seen to date about this
"disease" is fuzzy.
It's already been pretty much admitted the Prion protein can
not be "killed" even with high heat. If the ash is disposed
of in the earth, it still appears to be able to "infect". We
just don't know enough to make rash statements about the
danger. For now, I'll buy my beef from a source who knows
how it is raised. I won't buy the shipped in, machine
clawed, ground beef. Since we have already consumed tons of
this stuff over the last few years, maybe we be the guinea
pigs. YMMV
HD in NY
R.J.(Bob) Evans
wrote:
>It is a breed, but markets are pricing *choice* beef higher and labeling it
>Angus. I suppose that it really is from the breed. What I've been seeing more
>and more throughout our travels is that the beef in the supermarket is all
>*select* grade. If you want the stuff you chew without having to stew, you
Actually it's the other way around Janet. The Angus association has
done a masterful job of marketing their product c/w traceability and
standards-based criteria that mean something to consumers. The
association developed their "Sterling Silver" beef program to position
Angus beef as better than the rest and have been very successful with
it. But the reality is that any animal could meet the standards of
tenderness if put through the right program.
There is no mystique about creating a tender steak & I take issue with
someone's earlier claim that the ability to marble has been bred out
of our beef. No doubt some beef will finish earlier and easier but a
properly designed feeding program will finish pretty well any animal
if the feedlot operator knows his business and gets paid for the
finish rather than just the rate of gain. Given a properly finished
animal it is just a matter of proper aging and storage to end up with
a tender steak on your plate. The secret to tenderness is simply a
few more days on the hook. If the slaughterhouse is trying to push
too many animals through then the aging suffers and you see it as
tough meat.
R.J.(Bob) Evans
(return address needs alteration to work)
R.J.(Bob) Evans
wrote:
>Alan Balmer alba...@att.net says
>
>>(I know you aren't actually interested in the real answer ...
>
>I'd love to know how it's all done in the United States.
>
Here's my understanding Jenny of how your system has worked up until
now. Someone is welcome to correct me if I am wrong but I think the
broad brush will be pretty accurate.
Your system has worked on the assumption that you were BSE free.
Clearly not true now but a fairly reasonable assumption up until last
week. It was probably not a particularly good assumption since May
(when the Canadian reactor was discovered). The US and Canadian
systems are completely integrated - it was likely not wise to continue
to assume that your system was BSE free. By "integrated" I mean that
a calf born in Montana could be grassed in Alberta, backgrounded in
Montana, finished in Alberta and slaughtered in Denver. There is no
such thing as a US and Canadian cattle industry - it is truely a North
American industry. This point was argued repeatedly by industry
representatives on both sides of the border and by the Canadian
government but the argument was not accepted in Washington and was
rejected by some small numbers of your cattlemen, particularly in
North Dakota.
The offal from the slaughterhouse has to be disposed of. It is not
saleable in the US and Canada for human consumption the way it might
be in other countries. A slaughterhouse generates huge quantities of
offal and it gets sold to it's highest value use which may mean
putting it back into livestock feed as a protein supplement. Or the
offal may end up in pet food. The brain and spinal tissue are part of
the offal. That practice stopped in Canada after May. My guess is
that it is still happening in the US but (again my guess) it will
likely stop soon.
There is a scientific link between spinal tissue consumption in
ruminants and BSE transmission. So it is not a good plan to continue
to feed offal containing spinal tissue to ruminants FROM A RUMINANT
HEALTH STANDPOINT.
What everybody is missing in this debate is that there is no confirmed
link between human consumption of BSE "tainted" meat and the
development of Creutzfeld Jacob disease (CJD)
IOW, any suggestion that this is a human health story is either an
indication of stupidity on the part of the story teller or evidence
that you are in the presence of someone with an agenda.
R.J.(Bob) Evans
>the experts aren't sure yet. The smartest thing to do is to
>ban the use of animal protein in any critter food. Plus, ban
>the use of meat picking equipment. The trouble with all the
>"opinions" given to date is they are based on shaky
>conclusions. Rather than risk a future "epidemic" of hooman
>mad cow, it would be better to run with the rest of the pack
>and ban all the above. Bottom line is, I don't trust ANY
Do you read what you write?
The smartest thing to do is to trust the science. A consensus of
lunatics is still lunacy.
HDinNY
Of course I read what I write. I also don't trust the
bureaucrats Bob. The story in this mornings paper about how
Dr. Stan Prusiner tried to warn the Secretary of Ag about
the "danger" of ass/u/ming the food supply was "fine" sorta
puts it in perspective. It sounds like he is an opinionated
character but also appears as a REAL expert in the field.
Now you obviously know a ton about the beef industry and I
won't quibble with your assertions. What I don't buy is the
assumption I HAVE to accept the talking heads blowing smoke
at me, claiming there is NO danger. What I see in everything
I've read to date is, there isn't enough information to date
to make an INTELLIGENT evaluation of FUTURE problems. To
tell the truth, I don't expect the whole story from either
the beef producer or the vegetarian. Both have their own agenda.
HD in NY
Doc
>It's a little bit like the FDA "banning" importation of
>Canadian drugs, for whatever screwball reason.
-
That one was, as I recall, because it isn't fair to the US market (companies)
since Canada regulates the prices and the US doesn't. It isn't fair that the
companies lose profit.
-
>Or, not approving drugs already saving lives in foreign countries.
-
That I am not sure about. On the one hand, yes if the drug is helping then why
aren't we using it? But on the other hand, do we know the side effects, long
term? Could the treatment end up worse than the problem?
-
What I really don't understand is why drugs that *might* have problems are not
allowed for use in terminal cases. I mean if the person is going to die
without a drug, why not let them use it? If it helps them, then great, if not,
then what is the problem? Why are we so concerned about safety in terminal
cases when the patient isn't going to live anyway and the drug might make the
end less painful??
-
>danger. For now, I'll buy my beef from a source who knows
>how it is raised. I won't buy the shipped in, machine
-
But see, there is another problem. There are 2 ways of the animal getting the
disease, one is to eat contaminantes, the other is a spontaneous mutation.
Which means that -no- animal is safe, no matter how it is fed or raised. It
can get the disease even if it were alone its entire life being fed clean feed.
-
>clawed, ground beef. Since we have already consumed tons of
>this stuff over the last few years, maybe we be the guinea
>pigs. YMMV
>HD in NY
-
And there is the other problem. With a potential 4 decade incubation period,
if a person does come down with problems, there is no way to know
when/where/from what that person got the disease. We could all be infected and
not even know it, may never know it.
Doc
RE: Re: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
>offal may end up in pet food. The brain and spinal tissue are part of
>the offal. That practice stopped in Canada after May. My guess is
>that it is still happening in the US but (again my guess) it will
>likely stop soon.
-
It has been banned since 1997 in the US.
-
Of course it still can be sent to a rendering plant...
-
>What everybody is missing in this debate is that there is no confirmed
>link between human consumption of BSE "tainted" meat and the
>development of Creutzfeld Jacob disease (CJD)
>IOW, any suggestion that this is a human health story is either an
>indication of stupidity on the part of the story teller or evidence
>that you are in the presence of someone with an agenda.
>R.J.(Bob) Evans
-
True. There is only a casual link, what one of the websites mentioned was that
countries that don't have BSE, don't have CJD... and that is the basis for the
casual link. Not very good, and not scientific at all.
RK
"R.J.(Bob) Evans" <bob d0t evans at sasktel d0t net> wrote in message
news:ne0quvsji72lpmmof...@4ax.com...
> (Long explanation clipped)
> What everybody is missing in this debate is that there is no
confirmed
> link between human consumption of BSE "tainted" meat and the
> development of Creutzfeld Jacob disease (CJD)
>
> IOW, any suggestion that this is a human health story is either an
> indication of stupidity on the part of the story teller or evidence
> that you are in the presence of someone with an agenda.
>
>
> R.J.(Bob) Evans
> (return address needs alteration to work)
Thanks, Bob, for sharing your knowledge of the industry and the issue.
That was the most enlightening information I have seen so far.
RK
Carl A.
"Doc" <u...@n530.filenet.wwiv.net> wrote in message
news:3fedaa...@wwivbbs.org...
>
> -
> What I really don't understand is why drugs that *might* have problems are
not
> allowed for use in terminal cases. I mean if the person is going to die
> without a drug, why not let them use it? If it helps them, then great, if
not,
> then what is the problem? Why are we so concerned about safety in
terminal
> cases when the patient isn't going to live anyway and the drug might make
the
> end less painful??
> -
Perhaps for the same reasons that have led prison officials to ban smoking
on death row?
--
Carl A.
Enjoy photo-journals of my travels at
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm
HDinNY
snipped
> And there is the other problem. With a potential 4 decade incubation period,
> if a person does come down with problems, there is no way to know
> when/where/from what that person got the disease. We could all be infected and
> not even know it, may never know it.
Yup, we sure may be. So, since it's such a distinct
possibility why not take all the precautions we can, the
future populations may thank us <g>.
Jenny6833A
>Here's my understanding Jenny of how your system has worked up until
>now. Someone is welcome to correct me if I am wrong but I think the
>broad brush will be pretty accurate.
By "your" you mean "the USA's." Right?
>Your system has worked on the assumption that you were BSE free.
>Clearly not true now but a fairly reasonable assumption up until last
>week. It was probably not a particularly good assumption since May
>(when the Canadian reactor was discovered). The US and Canadian
>systems are completely integrated - it was likely not wise to continue
>to assume that your system was BSE free. By "integrated" I mean that
>a calf born in Montana could be grassed in Alberta, backgrounded in
>Montana, finished in Alberta and slaughtered in Denver. There is no
>such thing as a US and Canadian cattle industry - it is truely a North
>American industry. This point was argued repeatedly by industry
>representatives on both sides of the border and by the Canadian
>government but the argument was not accepted in Washington and was
>rejected by some small numbers of your cattlemen, particularly in
>North Dakota.
OK.
>The offal from the slaughterhouse has to be disposed of. It is not
>saleable in the US and Canada for human consumption the way it might
>be in other countries. A slaughterhouse generates huge quantities of
>offal and it gets sold to it's highest value use which may mean
>putting it back into livestock feed as a protein supplement. Or the
>offal may end up in pet food. The brain and spinal tissue are part of
>the offal. That practice stopped in Canada after May. My guess is
>that it is still happening in the US but (again my guess) it will
>likely stop soon.
What practice stopped in Canada after May? Use as livestock feed? Pet feed?
All use?
What's done with the stuff?
>There is a scientific link between spinal tissue consumption in
>ruminants and BSE transmission. So it is not a good plan to continue
>to feed offal containing spinal tissue to ruminants FROM A RUMINANT
>HEALTH STANDPOINT.
That's certainly what the Europeans decided!
>What everybody is missing in this debate is that there is no confirmed
>link between human consumption of BSE "tainted" meat and the
>development of Creutzfeld Jacob disease (CJD)
As I understand it, from experience in Europe, I think you're technically
correct in saying that there's no *proven* cause and effect relationship.
There does seem to be strong statistical correlation of the sort that links
smoking to lung cancer, etc. IOW, no one has fed infected meat to humans in
controlled conditions where all other causes of BSE could be eliminated, then
observed the results.
>IOW, any suggestion that this is a human health story is either an
>indication of stupidity on the part of the story teller or evidence
>that you are in the presence of someone with an agenda.
That I'm not so sure of. I emphasize that I'm no expert on any of this, my
sole 'knowledge' coming from having been in France on and off during the (big)
problems there. The French scientific establishment came to assume a link
because, in case after case, those who came down with BSE were proven to have
eaten, for example, brain tissue shortly beforehand, that those who got BSE had
all eaten at the same restaurant shortly beforehand, etc: IOW, standard public
health detective work -- the same kind of tracing to source that is used on
other diseases.
Other stuff I picked up there: the nasty prions aren't killed by cooking or
even by incineration in anything short of very high temperature concrete kilns.
Also, the French concluded that the prions were present in ordinary bones and
bone marrow. Controls were put in place re how meat was stripped from around
bones to ensure no bone chips. In addition, for a couple years there, one
couldn't buy a cut of meat with the bone in it and they're still pretty rare.
(I can't tell you offhand what cuts are now allowed to have bones. I *was*
served a 'standing rib roast' on my last visit.)
My point in the above and in my other posts on this topic is that I've been
surprised by *what comes across to me as* lack of overall knowledge on the part
of American officials and American news media. For example, the oft-repeated
statement that *only* brain tissue, spinal cord tissue, and the lower intestine
can transmit the disease. As another example, the oft-repeated statement that
the USA has banned feeding offal to bovines since 1997 (6-7 years ago) as if
that was supposed to be reassuring when the disease takes that long to appear.
I've seen one mention, but only one, that the ban has not been rigorously
complied with -- that a number of feeders have been in violation and quite
recently so.
Other countries have taken various measures, and learned from doing so. They
may well have since concluded that some of what they did was unnecessary, but
I'd nevertheless expect the American media to review British and French
experience, the solutions applied, current laws and practices, etc. I'd expect
quotes from British and French government officials and scientists. I'm seeing
NONE of that.
Were I in charge, I'd have a dozen of the top British and French experts in a
DC hotel serving as an advisory committee -- reviewing the facts, and helping
define every step we take. They have invaluable experience that we lack.
To repeat what I said in, I think, my first post on the topic: my *impression*
is that the US government and the US beef industry are going through the same
kind of denial that the Brits did -- and that the French did later (to a lesser
degree and for a shorter time) when BSE crossed the channel to France.
That denial and the consequent delay cost them dearly. I hope we don't go down
the same primrose path, yet (I think) I'm seeing deja vu all over again.
HDinNY
snipped
> True. There is only a casual link, what one of the websites mentioned was that
> countries that don't have BSE, don't have CJD... and that is the basis for the
> casual link. Not very good, and not scientific at all.
And, if it waddles like a duck and squawks like a duck, it
just may be a duck.
SteveB
>
> > What everybody is missing in this debate is that there is no
> confirmed
> > link between human consumption of BSE "tainted" meat and the
> > development of Creutzfeld Jacob disease (CJD)
> >
> > IOW, any suggestion that this is a human health story is either an
> > indication of stupidity on the part of the story teller or evidence
> > that you are in the presence of someone with an agenda.
> >
> >
> > R.J.(Bob) Evans
> > (return address needs alteration to work)
Puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.
Do NOT interrupt the current bunch of hysterical posters with facts.
Next thing we will be talking about is Mad Cow mills.
Steve ;-)
bill horne
Cost/benefit ratio. Diminishing marginal returns. Common sense.
I'm still eating beef, too - but then I smoke, drink, and drive 8 over,
too. Hard to get worked up about getting a disease at 102 when the ARBs
are after me every time I leave the house.
I'm more likely to doze off in the wrong place, and be eaten by
fireants.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
bill horne
Goodgoddamighty! Now I've got to worry about ducks, too? How do I
recognize an assault duck before I get close enough to feed it?
Don Dickson
"Doc" <u...@n530.filenet.wwiv.net> wrote:
> RE: Re: Suspected case of Mad Cow Disease in WA State
> BY: HDinNY <er...@error.com>
>
> >It's a little bit like the FDA "banning" importation of
> >Canadian drugs, for whatever screwball reason.
> -
> That one was, as I recall, because it isn't fair to the US market (companies)
> since Canada regulates the prices and the US doesn't. It isn't fair that the
> companies lose profit.
But several of the states (eg Illinois and New Hamshire recently)
close to the Canadian border are trying to set up a system to
import Canadian drugs for their employees and pensioners to save
money. They seem to be more concerned abouut their budgets than
corporate profits.
Even the Democratic candidates are getting into the act to help a
Republican governor:
"A plan by New Hampshire's governor to import cheaper U.S.-made
prescription drugs from Canada, in violation of federal law, is
winning support from the Democratic presidential candidates. In
separate interviews Monday, Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry and
former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean both applauded Republican Gov.
Craig Benson's efforts, including his willingness to break the
law. "Good for New Hampshire for bucking the powerful special
interests," said Kerry, adding that as president he would ensure
that states "never have to break the law to give seniors access
to affordable medication." Dean said the decision is "probably
the one thing Gov. Benson and I agree on." Canadian price
controls make drugs cheaper there, up to 60 percent below U.S.
prices in some cases.
The Boston Globe City and Region News, December 23, 2003"
--
Don Dickson
Don Dickson
"R.J.(Bob) Evans" <bob d0t evans at sasktel d0t net> wrote:
> What everybody is missing in this debate is that there is no confirmed
> link between human consumption of BSE "tainted" meat and the
> development of Creutzfeld Jacob disease (CJD)
Is there any country which has CJD and no BSE? From what I read
the incidence of CJD seems to parallel the incidence of BSE. That
doesn't mean it is transmitted by the food but it doesn't rule
out other yet undiscovered means.
--
Don Dickson