The sprit of this newsgroup!
Irmen de Jong
Very recently I had a problem with data migration to an Oracle database.
Because I am quite inexperienced with Oracle databases, and couldn't find
the info I needed for my problem, I decided to ask about it on the
comp.databases.oracle newsgroup.
Apparently I shouldn't have done that.
A few replies of people that tried to give some suggestions, didn't help for
me. I tried to explain my problem better and told them that their
suggestions weren't appropriate for the problem I was encountering.
Then there appeared a quite rude reply from a certain person that I shall
not name. He called himself a senior DBA and apparently was very proud of
that, because he actually told me that if I knew better I should not post
and see for myself! I was a bit baffled by that response because that means
that he was so convinced about the correctness and completeness of his
knowledge about Oracle that people who don't know that much about better
keep their mouths shut and not ask silly questions in the newsgroup.
So I told him what I felt about his response, more or less like this:
if you don't want to help me, why not shut up and just ignore my questions.
That triggered a very angry response from his part, he told me in my native
language that because "I knew it all better" and was ignoring the advice of
the people who know it all better, I'd better fuck off and go on meddling
myself. "No greetings" from him.
I was shocked. What was going on here? I was curious what kind of guy writes
such responses to simple, innocent questions on the newsgroup.
From a bit of googling around in the archives I learned that this guy is
actually known of being a very rude person that appears to flame newbies on
a regular basis. He may be a skillfull Oracle DBA, but it appears that he
doesn't want to spend his time on helping out people that can't figure out
some simple (or not?) problems. But he does spend his time giving useless
replies, often with rude content. Truly sad.
Why do I tell you all this?
Because this newsgroup is *so different*!!
I hurried back to comp.lang.python and found myself again in a very
pleasant, friendly newsgroup in which "even the experts" try to be helpful
and social to newbies, even if the simplest of questions are asked.
I think that is the spirit of usenet. Help eachother out, share your
knowledge, and if you think a question is stupid, then just don't answer,
because you can use that time and energy for better things.
My experience above just made me more aware of this.
Thank you, guys and gals on comp.lang.python.
Regards
Irmen de Jong.
Peter Hansen
>
> Thank you, guys and gals on comp.lang.python.
and bots... don't forget the bots!!! ;-)
-Peter
Tim Peters
> Thank you, guys and gals on comp.lang.python.
[Peter Hansen]
> and bots... don't forget the bots!!! ;-)
Bots are far too busy computing to pay attention to threads populated by
humans. Thanks roll off them like drunks on a balancing beam.
150-proof-oil-makes-a-bot's-day-though-ly y'rs - tim
Irmen de Jong
Irmen
Cy Edmunds
I would agree with that. Of all the newsgroups I lurk in this one is the
most
consistently pleasant and helpful. Certainly I know of nothing like it among
comp.lang.* newsgroups, which seem to attract a lot of smart people with
serious personality disorders. :P
Peter Hansen
Ah, you mean "programmers". ;-)
Steve Holden
news:mailman.1045778697...@python.org...
but-who-do-you-get-to-squirt-it-where-you-like-it-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
Register for PyCon now! http://www.python.org/pycon/reg.html
Nick Vargish
> I think that is the spirit of usenet. Help eachother out, share your
> knowledge, and if you think a question is stupid, then just don't
> answer, because you can use that time and energy for better things.
I think you have that backwards... The spirit of Usenet is more like
what you got on the Oracle newsgroup. c.l.p. is the exception, rather
than the rule.
For example, have you ever read rec.pets.cats? :^)
Nick
--
# sigmask.py || version 0.2 || 2003-01-07 || Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')
David Brown
"Cy Edmunds" <cedm...@spamless.rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:c1f5a.56929$9U3....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Maybe its because programmers of other languages are consistently frustrated
by their language and tools, are way overdue in delivery and have pulled out
all their hair while bug-hunting. Python, as we all know, does not have
this sort of effect, so python programmers are a happier bunch.
Of course, if you want to see some *real* personality disorders, try one of
the advocacy groups like comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Alex Martelli
> Irmen de Jong <irmen@-NOSPAM-REMOVE-THIS-xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>> I think that is the spirit of usenet. Help eachother out, share your
>> knowledge, and if you think a question is stupid, then just don't
>> answer, because you can use that time and energy for better things.
>
> I think you have that backwards... The spirit of Usenet is more like
> what you got on the Oracle newsgroup. c.l.p. is the exception, rather
> than the rule.
You're both wrong -- check the subject again: the sprit of
Usenet can only be discussed on alt.sailing and related
newsgroup. The spirit of Usenet, OTOH, can be discussed
on alt.alcohol and similar newsgroups.
Alex
Max
Or "gurus", "senior (anything)", "certified (anything)" - most often those who
feel the need to plaster their "title" on every post.
...and Perl programmers (sorry, could not resist).
Peter Hansen
Hey! I'm a senior certified guru and I take offense at that statement!
-Guru Peter "Senior" Hansen, Certified Guru of the Senior persuasion
Martijn Faassen
>> >Ah, you mean "programmers". ;-)
>>
>> Or "gurus", "senior (anything)", "certified (anything)" - most often those who
>> feel the need to plaster their "title" on every post.
>
> Hey! I'm a senior certified guru and I take offense at that statement!
>
> -Guru Peter "Senior" Hansen, Certified Guru of the Senior persuasion
Dear Guru,
I have a problem with my phython. I am trying to change my string using:
mystring[10] = 'f'
but it doesn't work. I then tried the ternary operator as I understood
from the discussion that it would save the universe (or be its utter
doom, possibly, I wasn't sure, but it sure must be the most powerful feature
ever in Python..by the way what is a PEP?):
mystring[10 if 9 > 7 else ? 7 : 10 - 2 then 15] = 'f'
but it still didn't work!
Dear certified senior guru, please help.
Martijn "Ternary Salvation" Faassen
--
History of the 20th Century: WW1, WW2, WW3?
No, WWW -- Could we be going in the right direction?
Martijn Faassen
> Irmen de Jong <irmen@-NOSPAM-REMOVE-THIS-xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>> I think that is the spirit of usenet. Help eachother out, share your
>> knowledge, and if you think a question is stupid, then just don't
>> answer, because you can use that time and energy for better things.
>
> I think you have that backwards... The spirit of Usenet is more like
> what you got on the Oracle newsgroup. c.l.p. is the exception, rather
> than the rule.
>
> For example, have you ever read rec.pets.cats? :^)
>
I never read that newsgroup, but a net.legend I read years and years ago
involved an attack on that newsgroup by denizens of the evil
alt.syntax.tactical, a newsgroup dedicated to the disruption of other
newsgroups. One of those would pose as a newbie asking questions about his
girlfriend's cat, got friendly replies, but his responses got worse and
worse, ending in I want to flush the cat through the toilet. Shocked and
outraged responses ensued, but various other regulars started to
agree with him, fanning the flames. These regulars were in fact also
alt.syntax.tactical folks who had established themselves on the newsgroup
previously. Apparently the whole social dynamics of the group were
severely disrupted. If what you imply is true, perhaps they've been
disrupted until this day, and this event must've happened in the early 90s..
Perhaps I should dive into google groups see whether I can find any reality
behind this amusing story.
Regards,
Martijn
Chad Netzer
> Perhaps I should dive into google groups see whether I can find any reality
> behind this amusing story.
Could you check to see if B. Van E. is a regular in alt.syntax.tactical,
please?
Thanks.
Chad
Larry
Python from tutorials and this very newsgroup over the past 18 months.
Python is now easily the main language I code in at work, and we've
got production systems flying well that are almost 100% Python.
The few road blocks I've come across that required support from the
community (usually win32 related issues or SQL Server stuff) have been
addressed quickly in here by guru types who really seem to be proud of
this language and want others to appreciate it and it's ability to
implement a solution elegantly.
Maybe someday I'll be able to contribute more in here (usually when I
see a thread I could help on there are already 23 replies ranging from
simple solutions to intense discussions of Big O this and that) and
give a little back.
Kudos to all you guys. This community drives Python IMO.
- Larry
Alex Martelli
...
> I have a problem with my phython. I am trying to change my string using:
>
> mystring[10] = 'f'
Ah, this is the problem! Python is case-sensitive, so you
need to use 'F' instead.
Alex
Erik Max Francis
> Could you check to see if B. Van E. is a regular in
> alt.syntax.tactical,
> please?
No, he's not that clever :-). But you can certainly see the effects of
his incursions on other newsgroups, and how similar they mirrored what
happened in comp.lang.python. Check rec.arts.sf.science, or news.groups
(where he was a newsgroup proponent, of all things!).
His behavior and peoples' (natural) reactions thereto were not at all an
uncommon thing for Mr. van Every.
--
Erik Max Francis / m...@alcyone.com / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
__ San Jose, CA, USA / 37 20 N 121 53 W / &tSftDotIotE
/ \ Whom God has put asunder, why should man put together?
\__/ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Rules for Buh / http://www.alcyone.com/max/projects/cards/buh.html
The official rules to the betting card game, Buh.
Martijn Faassen
ok I tried 'F' but it still don't work:
mystring[10] = 'F'
said something about a typing error and some assignment they wanted to
give me, was that this PSU thing you all talk about? They are giving me
assignments already...
but i figured it out all by myself and soon I can be a senior too:
mystring = 'Hello world how are you?"
mystring = range(217)
mystring[10] = 'F'
works!!
but now i have a problem printing my string, I get it looking all weird like
a lot of numbers and stuff. What is happening?
Martijn "Almost Senior" Faassen
Anna
> "Tim Peters" <tim...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1045778697...@python.org...
>> [Irmen de Jong, comes home after a scary experience elsewhere]
>> > Thank you, guys and gals on comp.lang.python.
>>
>> [Peter Hansen]
>> > and bots... don't forget the bots!!! ;-)
>>
>> Bots are far too busy computing to pay attention to threads populated by
>> humans. Thanks roll off them like drunks on a balancing beam.
>>
>> 150-proof-oil-makes-a-bot's-day-though-ly y'rs - tim
>>
>>
> but-who-do-you-get-to-squirt-it-where-you-like-it-ly y'rs - steve --
Grateful newbies?
Mike C. Fletcher
a strict code of ethics that means they would never take advantage of a
newbie to satisfy their more oily cravings. There has been a lot of
study on this facet of bot society by the various multi-temporal
sociology studies.
Preliminary studies suggest that the development of the time machine
itself may be linked to a bot trying to satisfy these urges by snatching
an earlier version of itself to act as an oiler. Other studies have
hinted that the whitespace-eating nano-virus may originally have been an
oiling-transmitted disease among the bot community before it's horrible
mutation. Ominous indeed if newbies are become oiling-ly involved with
bots out of simple gratitude!
Oh, won't somebody please think of the newbies!
Mike
Anna wrote:
...
>>>Bots are far too busy computing to pay attention to threads populated by
>>>humans. Thanks roll off them like drunks on a balancing beam.
>>>
>>>150-proof-oil-makes-a-bot's-day-though-ly y'rs - tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>but-who-do-you-get-to-squirt-it-where-you-like-it-ly y'rs - steve --
>>
>>
>
>Grateful newbies?
>
>
_______________________________________
Mike C. Fletcher
Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/
Peter Hansen
> [...]
> but i figured it out all by myself and soon I can be a senior too:
>
> mystring = 'Hello world how are you?"
> mystring = range(217)
> mystring[10] = 'F'
>
> works!!
>
> but now i have a problem printing my string, I get it looking all weird like
> a lot of numbers and stuff. What is happening?
Ah, that's called "Unicode". It's a replacement for "bytes" which
is coming into vogue these days. There's another fellow in this
newsgroup who posts answers about Unicode and I'm sure he'll
be along shortly to help you out.
He's from somewhere Dutch, I think, like maybe Belgium?
-self-newbie-referential-ly-and-unhelpful-ly yr's -Peter ;-)
Irmen de Jong
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
>>[...]
>>but i figured it out all by myself and soon I can be a senior too:
>>
>>mystring = 'Hello world how are you?"
>>mystring = range(217)
>>mystring[10] = 'F'
>>
>>works!!
>>
>>but now i have a problem printing my string, I get it looking all weird like
>>a lot of numbers and stuff. What is happening?
>
>
> Ah, that's called "Unicode". It's a replacement for "bytes" which
> is coming into vogue these days. There's another fellow in this
> newsgroup who posts answers about Unicode and I'm sure he'll
> be along shortly to help you out.
The usual way to handle "Unicode" stuff is by writing your own decoder
that transforms it again into a readable string, like so:
>>> newstring=''.join([chr(x) for x in mystring[:10]])+mystring[10] + \
... ''.join([chr(x) for x in mystring[11:]])
>>> print newstring
But the print statement contains all kind of weird characters, so
I reckon that your input is wrong. Crap in, Crap out, so you have
to fix your input first.
;-)
> He's from somewhere Dutch, I think, like maybe Belgium?
*I* am from The Netherlands...
Irmen de Jong.
Mark Lawrence
netiquette I humbly apologise now, as this is my first ever post
anywhere.
PythonWin 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mham...@skippinet.com.au)
- see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> for poster in ['Peter Hansen', 'Martijn Faassen', 'Alex
Martelli']:
... print poster, 'made me laugh'
...
Peter Hansen made me laugh
Martijn Faassen made me laugh
Alex Martelli made me laugh
Other than that I entirely agree about the friendliness of this group.
I have been using Python for two years and have never posted a
question because the answer is already here, or there is a pointer to
the FAQ or whatever.
As for other newsgroups, they somehow remind me of the Python sketch
that starts with an orchestra playing and ends (from memory) with "...
and as the fighter bombers dive in to finish off the last pockets of
resistance, so we go back to the studio". Strangely I do not recall
seeing this on TV. Was it only on vinyl?
Kindest regards to all Pythonistas.
Mark Lawrence.
Martijn Faassen
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> [...]
>> but i figured it out all by myself and soon I can be a senior too:
>>
>> mystring = 'Hello world how are you?"
>> mystring = range(217)
>> mystring[10] = 'F'
>>
>> works!!
>>
>> but now i have a problem printing my string, I get it looking all weird like
>> a lot of numbers and stuff. What is happening?
>
> Ah, that's called "Unicode". It's a replacement for "bytes" which
> is coming into vogue these days. There's another fellow in this
> newsgroup who posts answers about Unicode and I'm sure he'll
> be along shortly to help you out.
Okay I like unicode if it's coming into vogue and replacing bytes. Personally
I always thought they should replace bytes with something better already,
I mean, everything in computing keeps changing every day, one day it is
I should learn C++ then Java and then Python but they still talk about
bytes after all these years? Even the dot coms didn't replace bytes and
they were all so innovative. Does this also mean you have kilounicode
and megaunicode? Or do they use some different system. I guess I have to
update my system's RAM or install a unicode accelerator?
So how do I change my unicodes into something readable? Is it necessary
to go back to bytes for that? I read I could encode as UTF-8, is that enough
UTF or do I need more?
Anyway I tried something with .encode on my string and first I couldn't
get it to work as it said there was a 'list' object without attibute
'encode'. But I'm really becoming a senior guru already as I fixed
it myself! Well I almost fixed it, something is still not working..
mystring = 'Hello world how are you?"
trick = mystring # a GURU trick here see later
mystring = range(217) # great hack to make changing the string work!
mystring[10] = 'F'
# I read that assertions and testing was good so I put this in and it
# PROVES it worked!
assert mystring[10] == 'F'
assert mystring[11] != 'F'
# unfortunately mystring here is in unicode so I can't print it so I have
# to make it into UTF-8
# so I use object oriented programming here using the factory bridge pattern
# (I wanted to make this a singleton as I heard that was good but I don't know
# how, how do you do a singleton pattern in python?)
class OO:
def encode(self):
return trick.encode('UTF-8')
mystring[0] = OO()
print mystring[0].encode()
still something is not going entirely right because the F is not there anymore?
I did an assert before so I don't know what is wrong..
Martijn "Senior OO hacker" Faassen
Irmen de Jong
[...lots of code removed...]
> still something is not going entirely right because the F is not there anymore?
> I did an assert before so I don't know what is wrong..
>
> Martijn "Senior OO hacker" Faassen
Could you please take your silly problems elsewhere?
At least in another thread that clearly marks that it is from a newbie?
I can then easily ignore it and use my superior senior Python developer
knowledge on better problems than yours.
;-)
(seriously: though I like the obvious humour in this thread, I really
meant what I wrote in the original message. The fact that we are able
to make fun of it here proves my point again :-)
Irmen de Jong
Martijn Faassen
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
> [...lots of code removed...]
>> still something is not going entirely right because the F is not there anymore?
>> I did an assert before so I don't know what is wrong..
>>
>> Martijn "Senior OO hacker" Faassen
>
> Could you please take your silly problems elsewhere?
> At least in another thread that clearly marks that it is from a newbie?
> I can then easily ignore it and use my superior senior Python developer
> knowledge on better problems than yours.
>
> ;-)
Sorry great senior certified python developer!! I know you are all working
on great complicated python code using unicode and singletons and names
and literals and generators and other such things still beyond me.
> (seriously: though I like the obvious humour in this thread, I really
> meant what I wrote in the original message. The fact that we are able
> to make fun of it here proves my point again :-)
I'm glad people still think this newsgroup is nice. I've been worrying
lately it was getting a bit less polite and more standard usenet but perhaps
my worries are unneeded.
Regards,
Martijn
Anna
> "Tim Peters" <tim...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1045778697...@python.org...
>> [Irmen de Jong, comes home after a scary experience elsewhere]
>> > Thank you, guys and gals on comp.lang.python.
>>
>> [Peter Hansen]
>> > and bots... don't forget the bots!!! ;-)
>>
>> Bots are far too busy computing to pay attention to threads populated by
>> humans. Thanks roll off them like drunks on a balancing beam.
>>
>> 150-proof-oil-makes-a-bot's-day-though-ly y'rs - tim
>>
>>
> but-who-do-you-get-to-squirt-it-where-you-like-it-ly y'rs - steve --
Grateful newbies?
Anna
My newsreader just reposted a bunch of old stuph for no apparent reason. Ugh.
Please ignore any reposts...
Anna