A/C replacement for BMW - no Freon
Wes Fujii
: I am currently faced with a non-functioning A/C system
: in my 1984 325e. For those of you saying who cares, I
: live in South Carolina, A/C is a necessity in July and
: August! Anyway, I had several estimates given to me, all
: involved replacement of the compressor and evaporator along
: with the dryer. Suffice to say I need a whole new system :(
: My question is this: Are any vendors manufacturing freon-less
: A/C system components that could be used in my car. Since I
: plan to keep the car for a while longer (its in great shape
: otherwise), I'd like to replace with the new type of components.
: This is for several reasons, resale value, environmental,
: maintenance costs.
Why not have the leaks fixed and charge it up the way that it
is? Even though the R-12 costs are going up, they are still
under $20/lb. If your system is in good shape (with original
components), it still might be less expensive to keep it charged
with R-12 than to convert it over to say, R-134. I would think
that out of the reasons that you listed, the only one that really
holds would be the environmental concern. I doubt if you will
increase the resale value at all, and for sure you won't recover
the cost of a new system. I'd just keep it stock, if it was my
car (that's what I'm doing for all 3 of my vehicles).
The other thing you could do would be to charge it with Propane/
Isobutane and label the fittings as such. That would keep the
system cool, and as far as I've heard, the risk minimal. (yeah,
go ahead and flame me!) Labeling the fittings warns service
persons that you have altered the system so they won't contaminate
their recycling machines.
It's too late, but you should have stocked up on R-12 while you
had the chance (before Nov 1st).
Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
___ ___ ___
/ / / // /
/ /__/ // / A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
/ HURST // / "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
/ / / // /_______
/__/ /__// // ___ \
/ // / \ \ Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
/ // /OLDS/ / Boise, Idaho
/ / \ \___/ / we...@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
/__/ \_______/
David Reiling
I am currently faced with a non-functioning A/C system
in my 1984 325e. For those of you saying who cares, I
live in South Carolina, A/C is a necessity in July and
August! Anyway, I had several estimates given to me, all
involved replacement of the compressor and evaporator along
with the dryer. Suffice to say I need a whole new system :(
My question is this: Are any vendors manufacturing freon-less
A/C system components that could be used in my car. Since I
plan to keep the car for a while longer (its in great shape
otherwise), I'd like to replace with the new type of components.
This is for several reasons, resale value, environmental,
maintenance costs.
If anyone has even the slightest idea of where I could start
looking or calling, please respond via email. My local dealer
was of little help. I have asked a friend who works at the
BMW Manufacturing plant here in SC as a Procurement Engineer
to look into, but no word yet.
David Reiling
rei...@scarolina.edu
Greg Marciniak
|> I don't believe you need all these new parts. I think you are getting
|> rip-off estimates. Even if all these parts need replacing, used ones (at
|> the very least a used condenser and evaporator) are in order.
|> Evaporators almost never go bad. Condensers usually only go bad when
|> they are damaged by i.e. an accident. Compressors can go bad--get a good
|> used one. And don't mess with changing the refrigerant. It's not worth
|> it. You won't be happy with the system's performance. And if you really
|> believe that R-12 is environmentally evil, then just have the system
|> fixed so it's LEAK FREE and then charge it back up.
|>
Having replaced 2 leaking Ford evaporators on high mileage vehicles,
I would have to disagree with the statement about them seldom going
bad. I would argue that they may the first thing to go bad. I
suspect it may be related to acid formation from small amounts of
air/water entering from accumlated freon recharges over time but
that is just a guess. I believe corrosion is the problem however.
Greg Marciniak
Daniel J. Stern
rip-off estimates. Even if all these parts need replacing, used ones (at
the very least a used condenser and evaporator) are in order.
Evaporators almost never go bad. Condensers usually only go bad when
they are damaged by i.e. an accident. Compressors can go bad--get a good
used one. And don't mess with changing the refrigerant. It's not worth
it. You won't be happy with the system's performance. And if you really
believe that R-12 is environmentally evil, then just have the system
fixed so it's LEAK FREE and then charge it back up.
SL6 RedBeard
Wes Fujii
: Having replaced 2 leaking Ford evaporators on high mileage vehicles,
: I would have to disagree with the statement about them seldom going
: bad. I would argue that they may the first thing to go bad. I
: suspect it may be related to acid formation from small amounts of
: air/water entering from accumlated freon recharges over time but
: that is just a guess. I believe corrosion is the problem however.
This is not the fault of the manufacturer. This is the fault of the
consumer having their system recharged at an outfit that is not running
their equipment dry enough.
Its like blaming the car manufacturer because you have engine damage due
to contaminated gas...
Daniel J. Stern
SL6 Dan
Greg Marciniak
I was not blaming the manufacturer. I consider the evaporator
failures to be normal failures to be expected over time.
The assumption was yours. I was merely saying that evaporators
do fail.
Getting your system recharged at places that do not properly
evacuate the system is almost unavoidable for most people.
The vacuum pump used must be in good working order with regular
oil changes of the proper oil to even come close to moisture
free evecuation. A micron guage (an expanded scale vacuum guage)
must be used to verify that the required 29.90 in hg is pulled.
A perfect vacuum is 29.921. A guage set will be not accurate
enough. A bad or improperly maintained (probably most) pump
will not pull that deep at all.
A pump that is oversized may freeze the moisture before it
can be removed by dropping the vacuum too fast.
The point is that some moisture being left in the system has
a high probability.
Greg Marciniak
George Goble
>
> Getting your system recharged at places that do not properly
> evacuate the system is almost unavoidable for most people.
SO TRUE.... I estimate over 90% do not do good vacuums..
>
> The vacuum pump used must be in good working order with regular
> oil changes of the proper oil to even come close to moisture
> free evecuation. A micron guage (an expanded scale vacuum guage)
> must be used to verify that the required 29.90 in hg is pulled.
> A perfect vacuum is 29.921. A guage set will be not accurate
> enough. A bad or improperly maintained (probably most) pump
> will not pull that deep at all.
This is very true... 29.0 inches of vacuum is 25,400 microns,
29.921 is 0 microns.. water boils out at about 1500 microns..
Good practice requires 500-700 microns.. with the vac pump
"blanked off" (valved off), with the micron gauge reading
the system vac.. for 5-10 mins.. If any water is left, vac will
float to 1500ish microns.. if leaking, it will go higher (worse vac).
>
> A pump that is oversized may freeze the moisture before it
> can be removed by dropping the vacuum too fast.
This is not completely true.. no such thing as an oversided pump..
a much larger pump will not evac any faster in many cases..
The water may freeze for awhile.. but it will "sublime" (vaporize
directly)... or melt as heat returns to the area.. It takes lots
of water to make chunks of ice.. and your system is probably
ruined if it had that much water..
>
> The point is that some moisture being left in the system has
> a high probability.
Very true
--ghg
>
>
>Greg Marciniak