what does this ng do best?
valerie landis
does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
Derek M.
valerie landis <flrd...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:803-3795...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net...
does he want to stop drinking?
--
Derek M
http://www.bannerdudes.com/fransway
http://derekm.home.mindspring.com
http://listen.to/recovery
fke
>
> i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend. it
> does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
> religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
> the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
> have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
> wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
> knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
> want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
your boyfriend needs to seek his own help if he even believes
he needs or wants it...
my ex got out of our relatioship after
hoping for 13 years i'd stop and get better...
may have saved my life and hers...
i dont know.
Mark Warner
What YOU think of AA doesn't mean shit.
If your boyfriend wants to quit drinking, he will decide (either with your
blessing or without) whether to take advantage of what AA has to offer.
And if he becomes "happily whole" as a result, then you won't have to spend
so much time and energy making decisions for him, either.
Maybe that's what's bothering you so.........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
valerie landis wrote in message
<803-3795...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net>...
i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend. it
does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Mark Warner
===========================
"I still feel like a wallflower
But I'm learnin' how to dance."
===========================
Lose INHIBITIONS when replying
--
daniel
flrd...@webtv.net (valerie landis) wrote:
> i do not
>want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
You want what you want? Come on. If you are for real, you don't need
to act like a child. AA can only work if the drinker goes. If your
boyfriend wants to get sober, then and only then will you be able to
'help' him.
Howver, there is a website which claims that just by reading it you can
stop drinking. Check it out. It is called Rational Recovery. Tell him
about it. Then if it doesn't work, and your boyfriend really wants to
stop, he can go to AA himself.
--
daniel
8-2-86
Ben Franklin VI
Recovery is largely a matter of chaningg addictions.
>trying to find info on how to stop drinking
Get yer bf some high quality cigars. when he wants a drink have him smoke the
cigar, sexually arouse him and follow thru. Smoke with him after and repeat.
and repeat.
All tru alcoholics are heavy smokers. It keeps the plug in our jug.
>clickish half ass
>religion.
AA meetings are all different if you have a desire to not drink go to every AA
meeting within a 60 mile radius of yur home. you will find the right one for
you. Go to every Alanon meeting too. Alanon will tell you how to fix him.
Better still take bf with you to alanon.
You will find a few CAP meetings -- sometimes designated non smoking. These
are the half ass religion do gooders the Clean Air penis People. These ass
holes ruined our club by making 1/3 of it non smoking. We smoke in their 1/3
any way (Mark says fuckem Ben says amen).
About half of these cap candy ass doo gooders havent even been in jail for
alchol related police discrimination.
>a way to quit without all this bs.
give hem a gift certificate and pay for flying lessons for bf. this can be a
really fun addiction. remember recovery is largely a matter of changing
addictions. Pilots cant drink for 24 hours before they fly.
Skydiving is a good addiction to swithch to too. one of our group (skyjumper)
says you are totally free. in free fall. search out his posts and write him
for info drinking and diving.
>an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
>the ng
more caps and jesus freaks at open meetings. they are all sicker than you or
yhour bf. aa is a spiritual program not a religious program -- aa has been
so prostitued by the above that you need to search at least a 60 mile radius to
find a true aa group free of caps, religion and jesujs freaks.
the yeallow pages of a larger city will yield counseling on how to drink
socially, moderately kind of pricey but they have a 99% success rate.
we know only a little-- "In return for a bottle and a hangover, we ave been
given the Keys of the Kingdom." pg 312 bb aa
.
.
"He that falls in love with himself will have no rivals."
(Franklin 1706-1790)
My way or the Highway! --- Ben ---
Jim McMahon
>i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend.
Sorry, but my experience (and that of many others) is that YOU can't
stop drinking FOR your boyfriend. He has to stop himself.
>it does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
>religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
>the ng,
Man! I didn't know it was POSSIBLE for anything to be more stupid
than this newsgroup.....Wow! I guess the good news is that I don't
have to worry about framing a well-reasoned, rational and coherent
reply, since your expectations are low. :)
>what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
>have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
>wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
>knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
>want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
I can't address the criticisms of "half ass", "stupid", and "bs",
since these are just emotional terms you put on your expereince. It
would be helpful if you were more specific and explained why you
thought AA was half-assed, stupid, bullshit.
Now, for the criticisms I *can* glean from your post, namely that AA
seemed to you to be:
a. a clique, and
b. religious
I can see how AA may seem cliqueish - many groups do, that one is not
a part of. I have personally been to AA meetings where there was no
attempt to welcome new meeting attendees, and it leaves a bad taste in
one's mouth. Luckily, having been to tens of thousands of AA
meetings, I know from experience that they are not all the same and
that there are some groups which could not be called cliqueish by any
stretch of the imagination. Try more than one, is all I can suggest
to someone who finds AA cliqueish. And I mean not only more than one
meeting, but more than one meeting location/group, since they are not
all the same, in my experience.
The criticism that AA is a "religion" has some weight, again depending
on one's definition of religion and on a particular group's or
individual's emphasis on that part of the 12-step program. The
standard answer is that AA focuses on "spirituality" rather than on
"religion", meaning that everyone is free to express their
spirituality in different ways, if at all. You would not be the
first, nor the last, to find that distinction to be a lame and invalid
argument. All I can tell you is this: it is a certainty that one
will encounter many people who beleive in God in AA. There are some
who don't, but the majority do. And they are not about to change
their beliefs because of you, although many (not all) will be
perfectly comfortable with you having different beliefs.
If the "spiritual" aspect of AA is a hinderance to someone, all I can
do is suggest that they look into alternatives to AA, or learn to deal
with the fact that most people in AA believe in some sort of a God.
Some alternatives that I am aware of, but do not have personal
experience with, are SOS (Save Our Selves or Secular Organization for
Sobriety) and RR (Rational Recovery). There are others, I'm sure.
Now, back to you trying to get your boyfriend sober - what's YOUR
problem? Why do you feel the need to change someone else? If you
suspect you have a problem dealing with someone else's drinking, or
detaching emotionally, or whatever, you may find others in Al-Anon who
have experience with that sort of thing, and can help you. If that's
not a problem for you, then all I can say is good luck.
Being ordinary and nothing special is a full-time job.
mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon in real life)
Lech K. Lesiak
> religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
> the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
> have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
> wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
> knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
I sympathize, my dear. There certainly is a way to quit without all the
AA claptrap. One simply as to stop ingesting alcohol. It's that simple.
I suggest you sit down with your boyfriend, point out to him that his
drinking is damaging your relationship, and causing him personal harm as
well. Once he is aware of these facts, I'm positive he will heed your
advice and quit drinking.
Please update us once you have done this.
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> If the "spiritual" aspect of AA is a hinderance to someone, all I can
> do is suggest that they look into alternatives to AA, or learn to deal
> with the fact that most people in AA believe in some sort of a God.
Or find an AA group that ignores the spiritual aspect of AA. There are
lots of them around. Not every group is enamoured of the interminable
navel contemplation that is so common. Why, I have even heard rumours
of one group that held hooker raffles.
Cheers,
Lech
Julie
>does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
>the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
>have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
>wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
>knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
Major caveat:
*IF* he wants to stop drinking, and sans AA, he can check these groups out for
himself. Note "for himself"...that's got to be key.
Best,
Julie
...the kingdom of heaven is within...
Jim McMahon
>Cheers,
>Lech
Why, I've heard of that, too (I think those Canucks do such things).
It truly is a BROAD highway, so to speak, isn't it? Personally, I
find it rather delightful.
Melia Tomas
for him. Besides, what might be bs to you, could mean a new life for
him. But he has to choose it and he will only do it when he is ready to
surrender. I know this from experience. My spouse tried to get me to
stop drinking for years... what he tried, failed. What AA has helped me
do is succeed. And that's only because it was a decision "I" made for
myself.
Melia
Day 59
Lech K. Lesiak
> Why, I've heard of that, too (I think those Canucks do such things).
> It truly is a BROAD highway, so to speak, isn't it? Personally, I
> find it rather delightful.
Even though it's my home group, I always felt quite uneasy about the
hooker raffles for a number of reasons. It's not the sort of group where
much attention is paid to my opinions. The only reason I mention this
practice is to show the diversity that exists in AA.
Cheers,
Lech
Chris Priga
"Lech K. Lesiak" wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Jim McMahon wrote:
>
> > If the "spiritual" aspect of AA is a hinderance to someone, all I can
> > do is suggest that they look into alternatives to AA, or learn to deal
> > with the fact that most people in AA believe in some sort of a God.
>
> Or find an AA group that ignores the spiritual aspect of AA. There are
> lots of them around. Not every group is enamoured of the interminable
> navel contemplation that is so common. Why, I have even heard rumours
> of one group that held hooker raffles.
>
> Cheers,
> Lech
Unfair post! You failed to mention the group.
Lech K. Lesiak
> Unfair post! You failed to mention the group.
Turf Group, Calgary, Alberta, Thursday, 2030 hrs,
NE corner of 3rd Ave and 8th St SW. They stopped the hooker raffles a few
years ago when the chappie sent out to select a lady picked a cop. The
group had a collection to pay his fine.
Cheers,
Lech
4SLICE...@ao.net
>
> i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend. it
> does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
> religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
> the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
> have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
> wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
> knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
> want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
You want help and you insult AA.
Julie
>NE corner of 3rd Ave and 8th St SW. They stopped the hooker raffles a few
>years ago when the chappie sent out to select a lady picked a cop. The
>group had a collection to pay his fine.
>
>Cheers,
>Lech
This got me to thinking, Lech. Maybe it's a guy thing, but what's the draw for
wanting a hooker? Isn't there enough for free out there? Do only the ugly guys
do it? (I think I can understand celebs maybe wanting "no strings" and
anonymity and paying big bucks for it.)
I guess I just can't imagine paying for it from a "questionable" stranger. I
mean, I can take someone out to dinner, have a nice evening, and *that*'s
paying for it too I suppose...
Maybe I'm guilty of stereotyping, but most of the former prostitutes I've known
were addicted to booze/drugs and that's how they supported their
addictions...hmmm...maybe I could be a high-priced call girl like Sigourney
Weaver in "Half Moon Street"...yeah, me and my bodacious buns...bwahahahaha!
I dunno Lech, did you ever <ahem> get win the hooker raffle? Can someone
enlighten me maybe even from personal experience about this? Any women out
there ever paid for a male prostitute?
I can tell you why it's the "oldest profession" and when Dana returns to the
ng, I'm sure he can provide even more insight, but the history of prostitution
is an interesting one...
Jim S.
>Path:
>lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.86
.34.12!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!uunet!lax.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!webtv.net!not-f
or-mail
>From: flrd...@webtv.net (valerie landis)
>Newsgroups: alt.recovery.aa
me.
;)
Jim S
Ted L.
>I can take someone out to dinner, have
>a nice evening, and *that*'s paying for it too I suppose...
Oh is *that* what you had in mind... is Sophia welcome
too?
Ted L.
Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Lech K. Lesiak
> This got me to thinking, Lech. Maybe it's a guy thing, but what's the draw for
> wanting a hooker? Isn't there enough for free out there? Do only the ugly guys
> do it? (I think I can understand celebs maybe wanting "no strings" and
> anonymity and paying big bucks for it.)
>
I confess it's a mystery to me as well. I never understood it. But then
hookers tend to be fairly young, and I like old broads.
> I dunno Lech, did you ever <ahem> get win the hooker raffle? Can someone
> enlighten me maybe even from personal experience about this? Any women out
> there ever paid for a male prostitute?
Nope. Never won because I never entered the draw. There was a documentary
on CBC Newsworld about a guy in Australia who is a male prostitute serving
women. They interviewed a few of his clients who seemed like nice ladies,
and were quite content with his sercives.
Cheers,
Lech
Julie
>
>>I can take someone out to dinner, have
>>a nice evening, and *that*'s paying for it too I suppose...
>
>Oh is *that* what you had in mind... is Sophia welcome
>too?
She already "paid" for our dinner...<G> Would be rather rude not to invite her,
no?
Julie
Smile. Sophia loves you.
Derek M.
Julie <shrin...@aol.comic> wrote in message
news:19990721150222...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> >Turf Group, Calgary, Alberta, Thursday, 2030 hrs,
> >NE corner of 3rd Ave and 8th St SW. They stopped the hooker raffles a
few
> >years ago when the chappie sent out to select a lady picked a cop. The
> >group had a collection to pay his fine.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Lech
>
for
> wanting a hooker? Isn't there enough for free out there? Do only the ugly
guys
> do it? (I think I can understand celebs maybe wanting "no strings" and
> anonymity and paying big bucks for it.)
>
I
> paying for it too I suppose...
>
known
> were addicted to booze/drugs and that's how they supported their
> addictions...hmmm...maybe I could be a high-priced call girl like
Sigourney
> Weaver in "Half Moon Street"...yeah, me and my bodacious
buns...bwahahahaha!
>
> enlighten me maybe even from personal experience about this? Any women out
> there ever paid for a male prostitute?
>
the
> ng, I'm sure he can provide even more insight, but the history of
prostitution
> is an interesting one...
>
> Julie
>
> ...the kingdom of heaven is within...
>
appropriate quote too, since prostitution was a time honored tradition of
many religions.
Ted L.
>She already "paid" for our dinner... Would be rather rude
>not to invite her, no?
Well, actually, it would be rude to turn down *Her*
invitation. And, our having experienced many and varied
foretastes of the feast to come, through no merit of our
own, I was assuming we'd go to the party together --
although I have to admit She and I usually do have our fun
in private.
Julie
>>
>> ...the kingdom of heaven is within...
>>
>
>appropriate quote too, since prostitution was a time honored tradition of
>many religions.
Yes, and "the kingdom of heaven is between" for that matter...
Julie
>
>>She already "paid" for our dinner... Would be rather rude
>>not to invite her, no?
>
>Well, actually, it would be rude to turn down *Her*
>invitation. And, our having experienced many and varied
>foretastes of the feast to come, through no merit of our
>own, I was assuming we'd go to the party together --
>although I have to admit She and I usually do have our fun
>in private.
>
>Ted L.
>
>Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.
I can share if you can share, Ted. <g> Somehow I think there's plenty of Sophia
to go around. Think She'll like Rococco's? That's our newest (and only) swanky
restaurant in Hagerstown. I know She'll like my home-made stir-fry...what
veggies would you prefer? Meat of choice?
Getting my grocery list,
Jim McMahon
<snip>
>This got me to thinking, Lech. Maybe it's a guy thing, but what's the draw for
>wanting a hooker? Isn't there enough for free out there? Do only the ugly guys
>do it? (I think I can understand celebs maybe wanting "no strings" and
>anonymity and paying big bucks for it.)
I have enjoyed the "no strings" aspect myself, but am not a celebrity
(although some in this ng used to think I was a famous football
player). I don't THINK I'm particularly ugly, but I know I'm no
"chick magnet". I'm just an average guy. I imbibed in my younger
years, in a country where it was legal, and never regretted it.
I'm not honestly sure if I had some self-esteem problems, or just
wanted unfettered sex, or both. I know I didn't want a relationship
at that age, and thought the idea of sex for sale was a darned good
one (for me, the consumer, at least).
I guess the draw was simply that it was just sex - not emotion.
That's also the drawBACK. Oh, and another draw was that it was easy
and instant gratification ..... a perfect mix for a lazy SOB like me.
Dating and other forms of sexual pursuit involve some amount of
personal effort - buying sex does not.
>I guess I just can't imagine paying for it from a "questionable" stranger. I
>mean, I can take someone out to dinner, have a nice evening, and *that*'s
>paying for it too I suppose...
Every prostitute I ever had sex with used a condom. In Germany, I was
told that they were also regularly inspected for healthiness (although
I never asked for a certificate or anything).
On the other hand, some of the sex I enjoyed for free was with
strangers I met in bars who were definately "questionable". The only
thing I liked better about one-night stands than about hookers was
that the sex of a one-night stand usually lasted longer. Hookers tend
to get you in and out pretty quickly, in my experience.
>Maybe I'm guilty of stereotyping, but most of the former prostitutes I've known
>were addicted to booze/drugs and that's how they supported their
>addictions...hmmm...maybe I could be a high-priced call girl like Sigourney
>Weaver in "Half Moon Street"...yeah, me and my bodacious buns...bwahahahaha!
You're probably a little bit guilty of stereotyping, given the limited
sampling you've been exposed to. If you're meeting former prostitutes
in recovery, chances are you're only meeting the ones who also have
addiction problems. Granted, they may be the majority, but I'm sure
there's at least one or two happy and well adjusted hookers out there.
I have no experience with high-priced call girls, but that's only
because I'm poor. However, what you describe is more typical of the
"freebies" I've had than of the prostitutes. That's assuming you'd
consider it a "freebie" if they do it for buying them a few beers.
>I dunno Lech, did you ever <ahem> get win the hooker raffle? Can someone
>enlighten me maybe even from personal experience about this? Any women out
>there ever paid for a male prostitute?
I don't think I'd participate in a hooker raffle, myself. Not sure
why. Morally, I'm not opposed to casual or purchased sex....I guess
I'm just not attracted to it (or the risks) anymore.
>I can tell you why it's the "oldest profession" and when Dana returns to the
>ng, I'm sure he can provide even more insight, but the history of prostitution
>is an interesting one...
>Julie
>...the kingdom of heaven is within...
I can't speak for anyone else, but that's my personal experience with
prostitution. I'm very certain that the clientel is NOT limited to
guys who can't get it anywhere else. For me, it was usually laziness
and the CERTAINTY that I'd get laid if I bought it outright.
I have no idea what would draw a woman to rent a male prostitute. In
my limited experience, a decent looking woman can more easily find a
willing-to-be-casual male partner than a decent looking man can find a
willing-to-be-casual female.
Hope this gives you some insight.
Julie
>Hope this gives you some insight.
Thanks, Jim, yes actually it does. I've never heard anyone discuss the
"purchaser"'s experience with paying for sex, and that is largely due to living
here in the US where it is illegal, and yes, from former "prostitutes". And
I've certainly heard both men and women discuss "being bought" by others
sexually for drugs and/or booze or a place to crash and get food. So I found
the "hooker raffle" somehow ironic, given the large numbers I've met in
recovery rooms who were prostitutes outright or were by default to support
their addicitons. Seemed like it supported the very thing a lot of people had
been "sold" into by addiction. In my mind I pictured the "John" leaving an
AA/NA pamphlet after he'd done his business...
Here in the US as I'm sure you know, sex for sale is considered pretty scuzzy
by most people. And not regulated by the Health Commissions as it is in Europe.
So the very illicitness here makes it seem pretty seedy. From my limited,
relatively untraveled view from here, it seems that most of Europe is ahead of
the game about sex in general, but that could be another misconception on my
part. They could be just as screwed up about sex interpersonally
(relationships, marriage) but have a decent and relatively safe sex business.
I'd like to do some traveling overseas b/c I do feel pretty myopic about how
the rest of the world operates about most things. USers tend to get to thinking
that their way is the best and only way... "What does he know of England who
knows only England?"
Thanks again for an interesting post, Jim,
Dick M
wrote:
>I have no idea what would draw a woman to rent a male prostitute. In
>my limited experience, a decent looking woman can more easily find a
>willing-to-be-casual male partner than a decent looking man can find a
>willing-to-be-casual female.
>
D.H.Lawrence
Regards
Dick
talldoub...@stny.lrun.com
news:803-3795...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net...
> i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend......
>...........................................................................
..............i do not
> want him to become "happily whole" i just want him to stop drinking.
>
What does HE want???
(Or doesn't that matter to you???)
--
Tom Marlowe - a.k.a. "cadman" (Defender of the Faith/scum/dishonest
sleazebag)
___________(Lose ALL DOUBT to reply....)_____________________________
ICQ #9532968
Skyjumper
I just went back and scanned your posts...no wonder your boyfriend drinks!
What a pain in the ass you must be!
How about what HE wants????? He'll stop drinking when he is through....you
and your opinions notwithstanding. His drinking has nothing to do with you
actually, and neither will his sobriety. The day you understand that is the
day you will stop making these ridiculous venomous posts. Are YOU the one
with the AA resentment? I say that because you obviously don't know anything
about alcoholism at all, and only seem to be filled with criticism.
Yes I do know a way out of all of this. It is very very simple:
Don't fucking drink!
Best of luck
--
Mark H. aka
Skyjumper
------------------------
Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes*
may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual)
see to sea to reply
valerie landis <flrd...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:803-3795...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net...
> i am trying to find info on how to stop drinking for my boyfriend. it
> does not seem like this "aa" is anything but a clickish half ass
> religion. i went to an "open" meeting and it was even more stupid than
> the ng, what the hell is going on? i understand that treatment centers
> have the same "aa" thing and charge a lot of money for it...... no
> wonder this country has a terrible addiction problem. surely someone
> knows a way to quit without all this bs. please let me know. i do not
Ed
Skyjumper wrote:
> Valerie
>
> I just went back and scanned your posts...no wonder your boyfriend drinks!
> What a pain in the ass you must be!
Tee hee! My buddy. Always the diplomat.
> How about what HE wants????? He'll stop drinking when he is through....you
> and your opinions notwithstanding. His drinking has nothing to do with you
> actually, and neither will his sobriety.
Have to disagree with you here, Mark. A MAJOR factor during
my first, pitiful attempts to stop drinking was the concern Debbie
expressed on a daily basis. I sure as hell didn't want to quit, that
came later. You know, you go along, thinking you're pretty cool,
fooling everybody. Then one by one people start raggin' your
ass about the drinking. If the guy doesn't have a problem, then
I'll agree with your statement. If he does, then Valerie is his
early warning defense system, so to speak.
Now I'm trying to quit the cigs. Ms. Healthy has been bitchin'
about that for a long time. To her credit, she laid off me for
the first few years of sobriety. The major cackling stated around
year three. Hey, we got hitched that year! Arrg.
> Yes I do know a way out of all of this. It is very very simple:
>
> Don't fucking drink!
>
Smoooooth as silk. <g>
Enjoy the jump tomorrow, big guy.
Ed
>
> Best of luck
>
> --
> Mark H. aka
> Skyjumper
> ------------------------
> Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes*
> may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual)
> see to sea to reply
Every time I see you falling, I get down on my knees and pray....
I'm waiting for that final moment, when you can see the words
that I can see....
New Order
Skyjumper
I know, cranky again :-) I had to work this weekend on another software
update at work....the weather was lousy so I couldn't skydive.....so I guess
I'm just restless, irritable and discontent :-) I guess that job at the
State Department is out, huh?
Anywho.....see? You just said it below. If you were REALLY concerned with
what your wife thought, when she first started taking to you about your
drinking you would have said "You're right honey, I'll stop" and you would
have. This is if you weren't an alcoholic. How long has she been chiding you
about your smoking? Did you quit right when you knew it bothered her?
You quit drinking when you were ready, and now you are quitting smoking when
you are ready. Having someone bitching at you is just a reminder, not a
reason. Having other drunks tell you your drinking is out of control (as in
another post) is also just a reminder. It helps, but it is not a reason.
Hence the pitiful attempts. I did the same thing.
Personally I had to drink all that I had to. Until I KNEW it was over.....Ed
while I was drunk I remember I used to think to myself "Do you feel better
you asshole? Does this take anything away? Why do you do this?" and it
didn't matter. It didn't matter that my mum would stop by and say "Have you
been drinking?" or that friends would say "Are you alright?" or "Don't you
think you should dry out for a while?" or the squeaks with the cops or
cracking up the car or just people ignoring me completely. I tried to stop a
lot. I prayed a lot. Didn't really matter.
That's all I tried to say. An alcoholic knows he needs to quit for his/her
spouse, job, kids, etc but usually can't. Can't until he/she is done.
Doesn't make sense to non-alcoholics though who see AA as a cult, or not
needed because "you can just quit!" (as one 'friend' said to me).
heehee.....and now I look at drunks and say "Don't fucking drink you
asshole." Could only make sense to a drunk!
By the way...I want to see you smoke-free soon, my friend! And don't keep
eating those cookies on the breaks at meetings instead of smoking! Jeez! or
you'll end up in OA ;-)
--
Mark H. aka
Skyjumper
------------------------
Skydiving or *jumping out of perfectly good airplanes*
may be hazardous. (excerpt from parachuting manual)
see to sea to reply
Ed <fast...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:379A6B4B...@mindspring.com...
Ed
Skyjumper wrote:<snip>
>
> Anywho.....see? You just said it below. If you were REALLY concerned with
> what your wife thought, when she first started taking to you about your
> drinking you would have said "You're right honey, I'll stop" and you would
> have. This is if you weren't an alcoholic. How long has she been chiding you
> about your smoking? Did you quit right when you knew it bothered her?
I *did* say "you're right honey, I'll stop." And I tried. I tried for several
years, picking up a month here, three months there. It took me about
four years of "practice" before I got on a roll. If I hadn't cared enough
about the relationship to start the practice runs at sobriety, I'd still be drunk
today. You see, I loathed myself. Really didn't think life was worth living.
But when Ms. Healthy said "any more of this shit and I'm outta here" it was
like a slap in the face with a dirty bar towel. I was more afraid of losing
her than losing the booze. Co-dependency? I'll take it anytime.
> You quit drinking when you were ready, and now you are quitting smoking when
> you are ready.
That's hard to say. I haven't quit *yet*, and neither have you. We are
simply on a long "roll" which will hopefully last a life time.<g>
If we stay sober for the rest of our lives, I suppose we win the
not drinking game....hee-haw.
> Having someone bitching at you is just a reminder, not a
> reason. Having other drunks tell you your drinking is out of control (as in
> another post) is also just a reminder. It helps, but it is not a reason.
> Hence the pitiful attempts. I did the same thing.
See Mark? It was the *pitiful attempts* which eventually
led us to where we are now. Gary likes the idea of "repetition"
as a way of learning new patterns of behavior. I call
it practice--or a series of pitiful attempts gone good.<G>
Hell, if you throw enough rocks at the ocean...
> Personally I had to drink all that I had to. Until I KNEW it was over
I hear you and understand it works that way for a lot of people. I admire
that. My drinking career ended with more of a whimper than a bang.
A slow, "never give up the ship" process. Part of the process was being
viewed as "less than" by others. I didn't like that.
> I tried to stop a
> lot. I prayed a lot. Didn't really matter.
Then, but don't you agree that it helped to build *now*?
> That's all I tried to say. An alcoholic knows he needs to quit for his/her
> spouse, job, kids, etc but usually can't. Can't until he/she is done.
> Doesn't make sense to non-alcoholics though who see AA as a cult, or not
> needed because "you can just quit!" (as one 'friend' said to me).
You know you can say "whatever" and it would be fine with me.<g>
My point is, any stimuli (including nagging) which gives
a practicing alcoholic a clue, or perhaps momentum into that
"readiness" stage, is positive thing.
Appreciate the exchange.
Ed